https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePH6vkqAeB4
Is it really working?
The trouble with videos is that they can be faked with ease.
I wonder how much sodium polytungstate costs. It is x3 the weight of water. I have sent off an email to enquire.
Also, would it work with ball bearings, lead shot or even sand which is very dry?
I posted the below screen shot on that video
They will probably delete my comment
Luc
Water always tries to be at bottom most part. So, lever length at the bottom (center to bottom level of water) is more than the lever length at the top portion (center to top level of water) making moment at the bottom portion greater than moment at top portion. Obviously it cannot work. Level of water at left and right sides will be equal. So the moment is cancelled off.
https://www.youtube.com/user/prophet2012/videos
wesseldiwesseli.blogspot.com
In the past 8 month, videos of these machines have popped up
All over the world.
A dad submitting it for his kids science fair
An elementary teacher in India showing one running in the back
of an active classroom.
People in several countries using different types of bicycle wheels.
After looking deep into this thing,
Bashkara II wasn't just some crackpot who thought he had an idea.
This man was the Indian version of Archimedes
A scholar, an astronomer, a mathematician, an artist, a sculptor,
A teacher and an Engineer
And the inventor of Perpetual Motion
His machine dates back before the time of Bessler or DaVinci
To 1156 or something, apparently this is known in India
They kinda laugh at our physics
Anyways I'm going to have to build one of these
And I encourage anyone willing to join us in this adventure
Take a look in the tube and watch some of the videos with
Different bottles and wheels and get an idea for the angle.
The more bottles the better it what is being said.
We don't need any specially dense liquid or Mercury
We can dissolve salts into water to make it heavier.
There is a balance, for the size of the wheel
How far the bottles stick out, and the amount/density
of the liquid that will extract energy from the gravitational field.
Table salt and Epsom salt are being used
Longer bottles produce more torque
Use care in balancing the wheel (empty)
And place measured quantities in each one
If anyone can read Indian this guy wrote the math
It might help us to take a word straight from the horse
To relate it to our physics, we know how gravity works
And we know the equations for Archimedes Lever.
There's some complex angles involved but the water
Always tries to maintain a level surface along the horizontal plane
We can tell from the angle of the bottle to the horizontal
Where the exact volume is for each bottle at each moment
Around the circle
From that we can calculate the leverage with the distance
By subtracting the two sides of the wheel
And determine the best value for your size wheel
And bottles
And you know how much water to put in each one.
If you don't like math, an alternative approach would be to
Trial and error with different amounts of liquid.
Watch these videos, frame by frame , or pause it if you can't
Look at where the mass is as it spins around
If this many people are able to fake leverage
And manipulate water secretly......
I would like to know their trick.
There is an importance to the angle and the
Ratio between the diameter of the wheel and size of bottle.
Shorter bottles on large wheels have steep angles
Such that the leverage is decreased.
The fluid at bottom dead center appears to be almost
downwardly pointing in the bottle, and just starting to
transition to the horizontal.
Longer bottles on smaller wheels are almost completely
Horizontal at bottom dead center
Distributing the bottom mass while keeping it
Very close to the rim of the bike wheel
But in all the cases that show these things appear to work
(VerProject excluded....)
The mass of the water is leveraged on the operational side
of the device
Look at them
Sounds Like a good idea [a build]
Chet
Such a video like this one can be indeed faked easily and as it's already noted above, the lack of background sound just makes it suspicious. But I'm getting (https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/5p73m6/maxwell_demon_and_negentropic_effects_during) to think about it more seriously. There are multiple seemingly unrelated devices, which have still something in common: Bhaskara's wheel, Rosch' KPP buoyancy generator and cavitation heater or Tesla turbine. These perpetuums are very old and also frequent in the patent literature. They all utilize water, which gets more fragmented into droplets and bubbles at one half of device than at another one.
In my theory (http://www.overunity.com/15124/simplest-theory-of-overunity-devices-possible) the overunity devices should utilize the negentropic phenomena, like the oversaturation, overcooling or Barkhaussen noise. And the formation of bubbles and droplets is also metastable process, which is assisted with vacuum fluctuations: the small droplets must overcome certain critical size due to surface tension, after which they would coalesce spontaneously. The same applies for water droplets. That means, you must exert some energy for to create small droplets and this energy will be released back again like for pulled spring, once the bubble or droplet reaches some critical size. But just during it, in a brief interval of time the process could run into account of thermal energy of neighboring system, which will cool itself. So that not only all previous energy exerted will be returned back, but also small amount of surplus energy, which wouldn't violate the I. law of thermodynamics, but it could violate the II. thermodynamical law.
There is still another take (https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/4xn7yf/nikolai_a_kozyrev_a_russian_version_of_nicola), which results from old experiments of abandoned Russian physicist of Nikolai A. Kozyrev. According to his experiments (http://journals.sfu.ca/seemj/index.php/seemj/article/download/425/386) the finely divided matter should get lighter and of lower inertia, than this compact bulk one.
Trying to pull together a compilation of some of the content
That I have seen recently
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=piAH9Lx6Sak (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=piAH9Lx6Sak)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gMHLxFiKRhc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gMHLxFiKRhc)
I'll post some more when I figure out how to find them again
While not a water wheel ..
the 6:00 to 12:00 return to the top [vertical path tight to the axle ] has always intrigued .
http://overunity.com/7150/sjack-abeling-gravity-wheel-and-the-worlds-first-weight-power-plant/#.WIUnsLkixdg
and this one was claimed to run Too ?
http://overunity.com/13218/perpetual-motion/#.WIUrkLkixdg [combine the 6 to 12 as abeling does ??
just some things to consider
and yes, I will be building here too......
Here is a drawing reportedly originating from Bashkara
I apologize for the large size. If someone can resize it
I will remove this one. If not I can resize tomorrow.
Shown here there are 12.75 viles of liquid on the bottom half
Only 11.25 on the top half
Left to right
8.5 viles on the right ( at the outer periphery)
8 on the left. (3 & 1/4 on the outer, 4.75 on the inner)
[negating the top 5 viles for now, as they are inert as shown]
Mathematically, there is a downward gravitational flux
On the right side of the wheel.
Using this drawing as a guideline I plan to set up
Some experiments
As observed in the videos, the momentum of the water
Is conserved as rotational acceleration on the wheel
Each time it shifts. In this way the bottles could be
compared to the combustion chambers of a Wankel
Engine.
This guy's catching a lot of heat over this
So for now let's try to respect that he is showing
this to us, for what it is, or isn't .....
https://youtu.be/DnOkRGpCRy4 (https://youtu.be/DnOkRGpCRy4)
@@@EDIT @@@
This is the same Guy with the Kid and the Fan video ??
I am told the low Audio in the above Video is attempting to hide a Fan sound which can be heard with advanced equipment ??
Maybe I will follow Skywatchers example with the Profit and build it anyway ?
no stone left unturned..
I am waiting for some parts to arrive for Mike Nunnerley's open source SMD Hydrogen Build anyway...
we shall see ?
@@Double Edit@@
Smokey
I'll build a double wheel [side by side on the same axle] Abeling and Gwandau's claims can be played with there too
and also some ferro fluids and magnetic enhancement experiments can be added [as well as some of FLOOR'S Work ??
Speaking of Prophets work [different Profit I think ??
Johan Did post this link earlier in this thread
wesseldiwesseli.blogspot.com
I also added Gwaundau's friends wheel below
I have adjusted the sound of the video above "Perpetual Motion Machine - UPDATE - Home Made Bhaskara" back to normal.
Use the link below to review it once again and notice around 28 seconds into the video it has an air sound.
That's a sound of a low noise household fan and what is keeping the wheel turning.
Link to corrected sound video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMLhJrRqjqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMLhJrRqjqA)
Luc
The only new thing about this guy is his youtube user name: warm coffee
He is the same scam video guy that was posted in this topics first post: http://overunity.com/16718/latest-bhaskara-wheel/msg488095/#msg488095 (http://overunity.com/16718/latest-bhaskara-wheel/msg488095/#msg488095)
This was his fake perpetual motion video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePH6vkqAeB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePH6vkqAeB4)
Here is my post describing how it was done: http://overunity.com/16718/latest-bhaskara-wheel/msg488231/#msg488231
See still picks (below) I took of videos from each account. Anything looks familiar?
He is a kid doing this to get youtube revenue. He got 642,388 views from his first scam and is trying to do the same fraud again.
Investigate more and ask yourselfs why does it look so easy when 1000 before him failed.
Luc
I hear a lot of "he could have done this" or " he could have done that"
If your conjecture is proof enough to you of a scam
Then sit back and enjoy the show
Myself, I am not convinced that a fan would blow 1/4 gallon
of water around and not blown the zip ties...
I have here a 1/4 gallon of water on a Rollie Cart
And a zip tie tied to the side of the cart
The fan moves the zip tie, but will NOT push the
Jug of water anywhere. ( and yes the fan moves the empty cart
when there's no jug of water, yet still the zip tie moves first)
Anyways this guy wasn't the one who convinced me to build
He's just the one willing to keep making videos even when people
Accuse him of everything under the sun.
I have no doubt that if I managed to get one of these working
People would also accuse me of scamming
Even though those of you who know me know I have never
done anything of the sort since this forum opened.
The one in the Indian classroom is most intriguing as it has been
filmed by multiple independent parents of children in the class.
We will find out the truth soon enough as those of us that are building
Begin assembly of our replications.
Having 600k views on YouTube is not so much of an indicator of scamming,
As it is an indicator that more and more people are searching for free energy.
That alone should tell you that this movement we have been creating all
these years is starting to take hold.
People are paying attention.
What I learned from the Archer Quinn fiasco, is that gravity can be made to
perform work.
By altering its' potential from the perspective of the mass being lifted.
Whether its' through leverage, a slow rise + free fall, or a subtle exchange
With an opposing field, the term "Energy" does not pass through the exchange.
Momentum is conserved, but the perspective from which the "Energy" term is
initially taken, does not exist during or after the exchange. A new perspective
gives new rise to a new "Energy" term.
Remember the Chas Campbell wheel?
Gravity is rolling the "balls" to the outer edge for us
By shifting the water
Not only it is shifting the water it is moving it down and away from the axis
Imparting both a rotational force (32f/s/s(*/pi)) and also a momentum
M=mv
Gravity is leveraged compared to the other side
The reverse momentum of the water on the up side is less
than the forward momentum of the water on the down side.
Why? It is moving slower and impacts closer to the axis.
The 'jerky' action of the machine is from the downside momentum.
The more bottles, the more the mass is distributed and this dampens
the motion making it turn more smoothly.
If this works at all, it should also work with only 2 bottles
And be partially observable in a pendulum experiment with 1 bottle.
I'll work on throwing some things together to help us test and document
the results.
Here's something that gives a little bit of credence to this
Almost all gravity machines can be disproved by a simple
"Center of gravity " analysis
When done on these bashkaras they appear to have one
thing in common
When you watch them in action, the center of gravity
is not always below the axis, but forms an ellipse
around the axis, above and below and back above again
Dear sm0ky2,
I do wish you success with your Bhaskara experiments
Kind regards
Luc
QuoteAlmost all gravity machines can be disproved by a simple "Center of gravity " analysis
I admit, that the Bhaskara wheel looks more suspicious than for example Rosch' KPP buoyancy system, being closed system. But such an analysis would be difficult even at the case of Bhaskara wheel. It would consider, that the fluid gets displaced exactly in equilibrium with center of gravity and that all droplets and bubbles get formed and disappear just at the moment, when the buyoance force requires to create and coalesce them. At any case, it's just the apparent violation of the classical laws, what makes this device intriguing. We all know, that such a device shouldn't work according to classical physics analysis.
Classical physics would analyze this as a "closed system"
Since the mass is constrained to the peripheral of the wheel
And is (for the most part) balanced, the lifting and falling
of the weights cancels each other out and you are left with
the moment of inertia of the wheel mass to contend with.
Furthermore it would provide argument that in certain
positions the center of gravity of the wheel is below the
axis. While true, in certain positions the center of gravity
is above the axis, and both could be considered "balanced".
Once in motion, classical physics must abandon this "closed
system" approach. Now gravity is rearranging the fluid mass
Imparting a momentum into the water. (M=mgt) [include slope]
This momentum impacts the wall of the bottles and the
'back slosh' just oscillates (striking nothing).
If you analyze this mathematically, in which direction is the
positive momentum? Is it in the direction of rotation?
Or against the direction of rotation?
It its' magnitude greater than or less than the moment of inertia?
I think the 1 or 2 bottle analysis is going to hammer out these
details. Just as a rigid pendulum helps us understand a wheel.
QuoteIf you analyze this mathematically, in which direction is the positive momentum? Is it in the direction of rotation? Or against the direction of rotation?
From perspective of Kozyrev theory (https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/4xn7yf/nikolai_a_kozyrev_a_russian_version_of_nicola/) the side, which contains more mixed fluid and bubbles should get lighter. From perspective of my own theory, the thermal fluctuations should enforce the keeping mixture in shaken state and thus more distant from center of mass, than the equilibrium, so that this side should get heavier, which is what we essentially observe.
Quote from: Zephir on January 25, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
From perspective of Kozyrev theory (https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/4xn7yf/nikolai_a_kozyrev_a_russian_version_of_nicola/) the side, which contains more mixed fluid and bubbles should get lighter. From perspective of my own theory, the thermal fluctuations should enforce the keeping mixture in shaken state and thus more distant from center of mass, than the equilibrium, so that this side should get heavier, which is what we essentially observe.
Being that the bottles are sealed, they should weigh the same
Mix with the air inside or not.
Don't believe me? Put a half full bottle on the scale
Shake it up and put in on the scale again
MIT defines this situation as producing a net torque.
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node90.html (http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node90.html)
Here's how to do the math in a more simpler way
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/gravitational-torque-about-point.417539/ (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/gravitational-torque-about-point.417539/)
the net torque (or effective rotational force) on the wheel can be calculated by
Defining the torque on one bottle 360 times around the wheel then adding up
all of them. (that's about as accurate as I care to get at the moment)
From this analysis it is clearly seen that the bottles cannot be placed symmetricaly
else net torque =0
There are also angles of the bottle in which net torque is considered insignificant.
Or so little that friction is likely to win out.
Approaching the tangential is not beneficial
Nor is approaching the axial
Thus our desired angle lies in between
I would think that it should be close to halfway between
The tangential and the axial
But that assumes an inherent symmetry between the bottles and wheel
Which has yet to be clearly defined.
This is laborious and repetitive not to mention time consuming.
It might be beneficial to come up with a computer software that could run these
numbers on every possible bottle angle, some of these physics sims can do this
I think. I have never messed with them but I remember seeing some functions
on other's videos that might be useful here.
Pulled the wheel off the bike and gathered some parts to build a stand
Next step is to remove the reflector and tire
Then throw this thing together and balance the wheel
Then I'll start adding bottles, first one to conduct some tests
Then two, 3 etc.
I'm planning for 7 bottles for now
My brother has the drill so I won't be able to put this
thing together until tonight, but this is my basic
Test rig
The brackets came off an old jeep, the wheel is from my bike
As long as I don't destroy it, I should be able to put it back on
So my total cost up to this point
Is about $10 of water and a 2x4
I will need to find some zip ties or a way to attach the bottles
I may try to come up with an adjustable angle mechanism
If it's not too difficult to implement
For angles obtuse to the tangent
a simple wedge can go under the bottles
For acute angles, the neck of the bottles
must be raised to allow for clearance on the rim
It looks like the math is preferable
close to a 45-degree angle (acute)
But in all honesty I didn't run the numbers
on obtuse angles, I just started thinking
about that when I saw the natural angle
that the bottles sit at on the rim, is obtuse.
It provides for an interesting scenario because the
"Level point" is at a leveraged position well to the
Rotational side of TDC
Where the wheel will not sit.
For those that are building at home, or just tuning in
this is how I intend to assemble the framework
Two short screws for the brackets
Two longer screws for the supports
(2 supports, so Total 8 screws)
Frame and wheel are assembled
Ready to start adding bottles
(Soon as I find some zip ties!)
https://youtu.be/PxVbAy2CNGE (https://youtu.be/PxVbAy2CNGE)
At this point in the build I want to state
That I do not recommend any particular brand
Of water for use of their particular packaging
The water I chose was out of convenience
Not from any factor that may or may not lead to
Free energy
I would like to try and be economically responsible
So as to prevent any mishaps, like that time we
inadvertently caused the bankruptcy of an
International magnetic toy company....
While our tinkering might be entertaining and lead to
Phenomenal breakthroughs in knowledge, theory, and
application, we have to approach this in the right way.
So any brand of water will suffice, so long as the bottle
serves the need of your build. ( primarily length and rigidity)
.
Ok so, I have mixed water with magnesium sulfate
Just under the point of supersaturation
I managed to increase the density of my house water
By a measured 11.1%
Now to place an exact amount in each bottle
More to come
Update:
This is by far one of the most difficult wheels to get
perfectly balanced.
Once done, it does produce some very long run times
With only a slight push from the hand.
The oscillating water gives it a dynamic action, but at then
end of my experiments, I have found that this is simply
a convoluted flywheel.
Run times are very close to that of an empty wheel with
No bottles, when given a fairly consistent push by hand.
Making a video of 4-7 minutes showing this thing spinning
Is an easy task even without a 'hidden fan'.
But the wheel does come to a stop.
There is a balance point between every bottle.
That's not to say that this can't work, but that my build
Does not work.
I may give this another go, with longer tubes instead of bottles.
But for now I am going to reassemble my bicycle
And shelf this project.
Smoky
Your Drawing with the long tubes has the best chance with a heavy Fluid [Hg]IMO.
bringing the center of gravity the furthest out on the way down , and in close to the axle on the way up [like Abeling's claim]
and perhaps Hg's high surface tension will assist in movement/weight shift faster than a rolling metal sphere [ball bearing
I suspect a combination of Gwuandau's float across the bottom and Abeling's wheel would have the best chance.
Thanks for examining this claim.
Chet
Quote from: ramset on February 02, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
Smoky
Your Drawing with the long tubes has the best chance with a heavy Fluid [Hg]IMO.
bringing the center of gravity the furthest out on the way down , and in close to the axle on the way up [like Abeling's claim]
and perhaps Hg's high surface tension will assist in movement/weight shift faster than a rolling metal sphere [ball bearing
I suspect a combination of Gwuandau's float across the bottom and Abeling's wheel would have the best chance.
Thanks for examining this claim.
Chet
Yes my initial mathematical analysis indicated that angles less than 90 degrees (tangent)
To a radii, produced the greatest torque and gravitational momentum.
The natural shape of the bicycle wheel and peripheral water bottles,
Provides an angle greater than 90 degrees.
Basically I think the bottles (or tubes) should be angled inwards from the periphery of the wheel.
Not outwards, because the center of gravity is always below the axis with the outward angles.
The videos linked earlier in the thread, while may not be intentional hoaxes,
Show no more than if you spun an unbottled bicycle wheel and watched it spin.
The up torque and the down torque balance each other out.
playing with shapes and time to target [with gravity]
mythbuster guy and another very Shmart fellow
The Brachistochrone [below vid]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skvnj67YGmw 18 minute mark for the "meat"
a well known fact but these guys make it fun to watch [for a few minutes anyway]
and it may find its way into some wheel experiments.
Thanks for posting that video Chet. I got my two granddaughters to watch it with me. They thought it was interesting.
Especially the part about the spirograph which they like to play with. They are 7 and 9 but still enjoyed it a lot.
Thanks,
Carroll
Carroll
yes indeed ,getting the young minds inspired to experiment
that's the goal
I have been doing a bit of caveman modeling ,Smokey has inspired the test bed experiments to check the potential
prior to Jumping in .
below are some Pics of the Potential [or not] of the SJack Abeling overbalance wheel prior to Fussing.
I am using 10 pounds for each weight
so I have 4 weights not being lifted during the return to the top [40 lbs,]
lifting 50lbs but a total of 90lbs on the over balance down side.
as you may be aware there is much more that Abeling Did [he claims[ with a dual weight system and other mods
we see the Shape again [Speed shape] inverted from Mythbuster guys above
just musing for now
But interesting
all comments welcomed and appreciated .
Chet K
ps
waiting on nitinol