Designs: A Self-Powered-Pulsed-Motor, and, A-New?-Generator
I am just typing very vague concepts, without details that I have not thought of yet.
________
A Self-Powered-Pulsed-Motor
( I assume my pulsed-motor idea, contains no new concepts, but I don't know since this is a subject I know nothing about, but my generator idea further below is not so common )
The Initial Design
The stator is an outer-circle with a coil of wire right around it's perimeter
The rotor has a magnet/magnets which generate a current in the stator-coil when the rotor rotates
And the current generated, is used to push forward the part of the rotor that has the magnet/magnets. ( for this, maybe the outer-coil would be divided into sections, to power various pulsers sequentially, which push the rotor, on the perimeter of the stator )
UPDATE : Today I just learned about the concept of using the power of a collapsing-electromagnetic-field for propulsion in pulsed motors, so instead of pushing to create propulsion, they use attraction.
I am thinking that in this self-running-motor, it could 'maybe' use 'pushing' and 'attraction'( from a collapsing-field ) at the same time , however, that would require such critical timing( and maybe cause rpm restrictions ), so I don't know.
( At the moment I cannot see any reason or concept in this design that would supply enough power for the motor to power itself, although, the 'pushers-pulsers' and the 'attractors-pulsers' components that provide the propulsion, they could possibly contain 'iron-cores', and some people believe 'iron-cores' multiply the strength of magnetic-fields, I don't know )
For some reasons, maybe involving electromagnetic-eddies, maybe a diode type of component is required for the current, but I don't know if diodes have 100% no resistance in the direction in which they allow current, since any resistance at all could prevent a self-powered device from increasing current/speed .
The Coil : I thought that electromagnetic-eddies produced on the coil, which would normally slow the rotation of a rotor, would automatically be channeled into current to power this motor, however, I assume I may be wrong.
So maybe the coil should be replaced with one of the superconductive versions of graphene, or at least some material that is available, in other words, a material that has the smallest/finest mesh, or lattice, that is highly electrically conductive, in order to channel away the electromagnetic-eddies directly to power the pulsers which propel the rotor.
This leads me to a new? type of generator design.
_________
A New? Type Of Generator Design
The Initial Design
Basically, the initial design would be a Faraday-Disk type of generator, but the electromagnetic-eddies( which normally cause devices to slow down ) would be channeled of the surface of the disk and would become the dc-output( or be added to the dc-output ), this would be done by covering the disk surface with one of the superconductive versions of graphene, or at least some material that is available, in other words, a material that has the smallest/finest mesh, or lattice, that is highly electrically conductive, in order to channel away the electromagnetic-eddies directly to convert them into the dc-output-power of the generator.
The important detail I cannot work out, is how to integrate some sort of diode-like-effect on the surface of the disk to more successfully channel the electromagnetic-eddies to convert them into the output dc-current, although, I assume there may be materials that behave like diodes, but they would not be the same materials that have the "smallest/finest mesh, or lattice, that is highly electrically conductive" which would be the new surface of the Faraday-Disk.
I have a question, What happens to a single coil when you short its' leads together, as a magnet is dead center of the coil?
The magnet is sized so it completely leaves one side of the coil before it enters the other.
It approaches , inducing some form of flow, it hits center, flow doesn't stop but instantianously reverses.
Short not the leads together, but one lead back on itself with a properly orientainted diode , positive or negative ,depends on what field your reversing.
The magnet is rotating the coil is stationary.
The coil will produce more.
artv
QuoteI have a question, What happens to a single coil when you short its' leads together, as a magnet is dead center of the coil?
The magnet is sized so it completely leaves one side of the coil before it enters the other.
It approaches , inducing some form of flow, it hits center, flow doesn't stop but instantianously reverses.
Short not the leads together, but one lead back on itself with a properly orientainted diode , positive or negative ,depends on what field your reversing.
The magnet is rotating the coil is stationary.
The coil will produce more.
Sometimes I thought I understand how that works, but when I re-think and re-read it, I lose it
( the main reason is because I never build anything and I don't have any of the background or qualifications of the people on this site )
QuoteThe magnet is sized so it completely leaves one side of the coil before it enters the other.
I was sure that the magnet( the seemingly larger magnetic-field existing in the coil ), does not leave one side of the coil before it enters the other, that it only goes around that 'closed-loop' as electricity( with a 'normal' size magnetic-field ), in other words, when it leaves the coil it returns to an electromagnetic-field of normal proportion ,
- if I'm wrong, then I think you would not even need the diode
- you could just supply 1-volt of current to that loop, and in a short time the current will have been amplified by a big factor
- or instead of directly supplying current to that loop, induce current in that loop by using a rotating magnet, and get the same energy amplification
I was sure there is no energy amplification just by using a coil, but again, it could be something new I have learnt on this site
definitely, I skip on anything so advanced, it is beyond my capabilities, if this has been shown to have any results, it would be on a known device
______
However, I also got a much simpler understanding / interpretation of your idea, so simple that it no longer relates to your idea
you mentioned
QuoteShort not the leads together, but one lead back on itself
that reminded me of the very original magnetic-core computer-memory, and how( I think ) that data was stored by giving/storing a magnetic-field on a ferrite-ring, or removing the magnetic-field from the ferrite-ring
I wonder if you can store a continually increasingly powerful magnetic-field on a ferrite-ring, effectively making your generator/motor faster and faster , in the same way that you can make an electric-motor faster and faster by adding stronger permanent-magnets to it( but not increasing the input power )
I temporarily thought this may have been a possible explanation for the claimed accidental overunity device called "Network Analyzer" below :
look for "Network Analyzer" on the page
http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/on_extracting_EM%20energy.htm
I only thought that because I thought it was some type of computer, which may have used something like the ferrite-ring computer-memory mentioned above,
but it seems that the claimed overunity was more due to something like magnetic-compression/reflection of the conductors electromagnetic-field back into itself,
in other words, imagine a closed-loop circuit, and all along that loop, it is all encased inside a contentious donut-magnet to reflect the electromagnetic-field back into the loop
The problem with the ferrite ring "RAM" is, it's a closed loop, it can maintain its field only as a closed loop. You may however use this to delay the use of the field. However, this temporarily petmanent magnet Ram or Leedskalnin type of field doesn't like airgaps and flux leakage, so any mechanical implementation is difficult.
Speaking of pulse motors, food for thought maybe:
Imagine to pulse the coil just a moment before the PM magnet passes by, so it will attract it. Then, right when it passed by, let the collapsing field of the coil repell the magnet strongly.
Now here's a claim: the stronger the PM, the higher the efficiency.
I'd try coreless coils, for various reasons.
QuoteThe problem with the ferrite ring "RAM" is, it's a closed loop, it can maintain its field only as a closed loop.
I understood, or misunderstood, that builders on this site that work with solid iron-cores inside electric-coils, or maybe just with electric-coils without cores :
- that they describe an effect of the iron-core retaining a magnetic-field after the current is switched of
- or that they describe an effect of the electric-coil retaining a magnetic-field after the current is switched of
I should have just mentioned that, instead of mentioning that ferrite-core computer memory.
______________
QuoteSpeaking of pulse motors, food for thought maybe:
Imagine to pulse the coil just a moment before the PM magnet passes by, so it will attract it. Then, right when it passed by, let the collapsing field of the coil repell the magnet strongly.
I was sure that that is exactly how your magnet-motor is supposed to work.
Your work on your motor stopped because you found that the 'Rotor-iron C-core' would be a source a eddies/braking, which is obviously very different to a sticky-spot, OR IS IT ?
NEUTRALIZATION OF EDDIES-BREAKING, BY USING THE SAME OFFSETTING/OUT-OF-SYNCHRONIZATION EFFECT TO NEUTRALIZE STICKY-SPOTS :
FIRST , If you had sticky-spot problems in your motor, then obviously you could just apply the same effect of neutralization as in my magnet-motor-3.5 , by linking multiple of you motors together, but slightly offset/out-of-sync with each other to neutralize the sticky-spots
SECONDLY , now I can vaguely see maybe various methods of using that Offsetting/Out-Of-Synchronization Effect to overcome Eddies-Breaking in other peoples designs
HERE IS ANOTHER POSSIBLE METHOD, ALTHOUGH IT MAY VERY POSSIBLY BE THE SAME
Your eddies/braking problem has made me wonder, if the eddies are causing the 'Rotor-iron C-core' to slow down, then could you not use the outer-edges of the eddie to actually push/propel another 'Rotor-iron C-core' forward, in other words, neutralize that breaking effect by making the outer-edges of the eddie push something forward, although I assume you would need a more sophisticated design than what I have just described.
I assume you want to get your design / prototype working because, either :
- it will be the first magnet-motor to function successfully as far as you know( although I also do not actually know of any magnet-motor that has been proven to function successfully or has been replicated successfully )
- or, you think if your magnet-motor functions successfully that one or more aspects of it's design may be applicable to the design of conventional electric-motors and or generators.
I wonder if you could actually copy the design of electric-motors and or generators to make a permanent-magnet-motor( overunity ) equivalent of them.
NOTE : The lifespan of magnets in magnet-motors( overunity motors ) may be longer than what I have been led to believe, because, of the impressive lifespan of permanent-magnets in electric-motors and generators( although I assume these devices may be specifically designed to minimize stresses on those permanent-magnets as much as possible )
______________
guest1289
QuoteI wonder if you can store a continually increasingly powerful magnetic-field on a ferrite-ring, effectively making your generator/motor faster and faster , in the same way that you can make an electric-motor faster and faster by adding stronger permanent-magnets to it( but not increasing the input power )
that has given me the idea below, however, when I originally got this idea, for some reason I thought it could be possible for the rpm of this motor to continually increase until it breaks apart, but now as I type the idea, I have either lost that part of the idea, or it is not possible
NOTE : THE FOLLOWING MOTOR WHICH FUNCTIONS VIA ELECTROSTATIC REPELLING OR ATTRACTING, WOULD BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND UNRELATED TO ELECTROSTATIC-MOTORS, BECAUSE, THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY ELECTROSTATIC-DISCHARGES BETWEEN THE ROTOR-COMPONENTS AND THE STATOR-COMPONENTS
A PURELY ELECTROSTATIC VERSION OF MY MAGNET-MOTOR-3.5( OR OF MY OTHER VARIOUS MAGNET-MOTORS ), HOWEVER, IN THIS ELECTROSTATIC VERSION , THE PROPULSION-COMPONENTS ARE USED TO STORE AN EVER INCREASING ELECTROSTATIC-CHARGE( LIKE CAPACITORS ) UNTIL THEY HAVE TO BE DISCHARGED
- READ THIS / IMPORTANT - THIS MOTOR WHICH FUNCTIONS VIA ELECTROSTATIC REPELLING OR ATTRACTING, WOULD BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND UNRELATED TO ELECTROSTATIC-MOTORS, BECAUSE, THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY ELECTROSTATIC-DISCHARGES BETWEEN THE ROTOR-COMPONENTS AND THE STATOR-COMPONENTS
- So, once you have enough rpm, this charging and discharging cycle should not affect the rpm.
- I don't know what would be the best method for generating electrostatic-charge for this electrostatic version of my magnet-motors
- The PROPULSION-COMPONENTS as typed in the capital-letters-title-text above, would be electrostatic-versions of the rotor-components, or, of the stator-components, in my magnet-motors( eg. my magnet-motor-3.5 )
NOTE : Since it could( heating problem ? ) be possible to run a magnet-motor in a vacuum for significantly higher rpm / efficiency, I wonder if that would also be an option for this electrostatic equivalent of my magnet-motors, I assume it would, since it does not involve any electrostatic-discharges outside of the metals/plastics
If this device functioned, it could be better than a magnet-motor in various ways
______________
PENDULUM-MAGNET-MOTOR IDEA
This idea is so simple, that I am absolutely sure it has been designed by numerous people before me.
Simply, as the magnet/or-metal on the end of the rod/cord swings to the top of it's swinging-arc on either side, it is very briefly kept there by the attraction of permanent-magnets.
( at the moment I can't see how to do that by repelling instead )
Some interesting ideas. Some I'd say not working tho. Example given: Charging and uncharging capacitors, like in electrostatics, has that mysterious energy loss up to 50%.
The problem with my negative induction drive design was not Eddy currents, as you said, but Lenz law.
Eddy currents are heating losses, spontanous tiny shortened 1turn coils within the solid material like iron parts. These can be prevented with laminate or ferrite.
Lenz law on the other hand is about the magnetic field of a coil, as soon as you try to harvest its current, will be polarized in such a way that any mechanical force, that is moving the primary magnet in front of the coil, will be braked: when getting closer you're repelled, when you move away, you're attracted by the coil.
The manifestation of the Lenz law in my fluxpath switching design was a bit more complicated, but basicly the same.
You were right, but I am not sure whether you knew why. But that's fine ^^
No, I was wrong about why your motor would not work, the reason I had thought, was that your motor would get stuck when the rotor and stator align, because I thought the big 'Rotor-iron C-core' would get stuck to the stator-magnet that moves into the big 'Rotor-iron C-core'.
- But you had explained that that was perfectly balanced by the other flux path leading from the stator-magnet that moves into the big 'Rotor-iron C-core', or by the actions at the coil-with-core component.
from your latest finding of why your motor won't work, it seems to be that the central concept upon which your motor is based, won't work , a problem which initially seems impossible to fix
However, I actually think that your motor could work with whatever required modification or redesign, but I'm not sure why you'd bother, if people have already achieved this.
I think that people have actually overcome the current reason why your motor will not work, in their own very closely related designs, that your motor and their motors are different versions of each other.
I have noticed more than one, of other peoples motors that are closely related to yours
And yesterday I found that apparently the other poster above, in this actual thread, shylo( artv ), if he is 'art porter' , that his work, that people replicating his work had apparently overcome your current? problem, but I'm not sure, I think by using 2(?) coils, but I forgot to bookmark the page.
My own ideas for fixing your motor would be a redesign, just vaguely guessing at the moment, by further separating things apart and away from each other, and or by using some different effects , but would it be worth doing, since you may not be the first person to get this type of motor working .
___________
The PENDULUM-MAGNET-MOTOR IDEA I posted yesterday, I think that although the magnets would help lift up the swinging-magnet/pendulum, they may also slow down the swing speed of the pendulum as it leaves these magnets, so maybe any gain is lost.
However, obviously many many people in the past have come up with much more advanced versions etc.
And about 1 year ago, I posted a diagram of my MAGNET-GRAVITY-MOTOR on this site.
Below, is that diagram again , the MAGNET-GRAVITY-MOTOR
- the rotor is the magnet, and the stator is just iron
- Note : Obviously those two small extra stators at the end are to allow the rotor to escape from the big stator, but obviously the rotor is also assisted by gravity( and momentum ) to escape from the big stator
- However, if you have seen the diagram on the wikipedia-page for the SMOT, you will see that it uses a different type of leaving-gate to allow the metal-ball to escape the SMOT, I wonder if that type of gate could be more effective.
Yesterday, I 'think' I discovered that someone in the last 5 years may have invented a version of this motor before me, although some aspects of their motor were different, I didn't check all the details to check all the differences.
But anyway, it was definitely no surprise, when I first designed this motor, that because it is so simple, I assumed that it had been designed by other people before me possibly as far back as 500 years, more, or less.
___________
Work Done By Magnets
I think if anyone wants possibly the very simplest home experiment to prove that magnets can do work, then that would be the SMOT, and maybe also other versions of the SMOT , or, linear-v-gate-motors?( I can't remember all the distinguishing factors between all these etc )
Basically, my idea is that if you can give the tiniest consistent( measurable ) nudge to a metal-ball so that it enters the SMOT, or, enters a linear-v-gate-motor, so that the SMOT( or linear-v-gate-motor ) shoots the metal-ball out, then you could very easily compare 'all' that work done, to the 'much-less' work done when you give the tiniest consistent( measurable ) nudge to a metal-ball without it entering into a SMOT( or other similar motor ).
NOTE : On the diagram on the wikipedia-page for the SMOT, you will see that it uses a very unique-leaving-gate to allow the metal-ball to escape the SMOT, so if you use the SMOT for the above test, that unique-leaving-gate would be essential to propel the metal-ball to the best distance
___________
also, below are some of my more interesting magnet-motor designs
DRUM VERSION
I could never work out if I based this motor on a principle which actually works, since I don't have appropriate things to do proper tests with
Basically, I thought that if a magnet floats in a boat above a very-long-rectangle-made-of-iron( which is underwater ), that that boat will go to the exact center of that very-long-rectangle-made-of-iron, the advantage of using this very-long-rectangle-made-of-iron shape to any other shape, is in the Absolute-Minimization of the only sticky-spot in this type of motor, which is the last rotating-magnet that wants to move away from the strongest part of the stator.
In this diagram, there is also a Side-View of this motor, in which the basic-rinciple can be seen more clearly.
The reason for a Drum-Version, is so that rotating-magnets do not affect the same/only big stator-iron that is trying to attract the other rotating-magnets, since I could 'maybe' see some problems( not relating to eddies )
MAGNET-MOTOR-10-10 , this is an improved version of 'DRUM VERSION' mentioned above, by moving the start-point of the stator so close to the end-point of the stator, that I am using that effect to jiggle free that sticky-point .
I didn't bother drawing the drum-version of this improved version, too much drawing etc
MAGNET-MOTOR-3-2-5 , I had wondered that this was my magnet-motor design with the most torque
The Smot is a ramp motor. As far as I know, forces are in equilibrium, no gain. What tricks most experimenters is that they ignore the force required to A: move the rotor or moving part to a point, from which it will selfaccellerate. This is your sticky spot.
We are not very diffrent, in enjoying to design motors without to understand the underlying basics. Even tho, I may know a couple of things more, which makes me wanna say "learn the basics first!", I don't know everything neigther. I guess nobody does.
MOT and TOMI tracks are seductive, until you realize their energy equilibrium. The same goes for the sticky spot of any ramp design. Even tho, my other thread about energy extraction from permanent magnets indicates that there would be ways to overcome the sticky point.
BTW. nice drawings. The Gravity tho, is always in equilibrium. It's addition can't give any gain, but usually just increases friction. If the weight falls down, it must go up again, reducing the torque by the same amount as it increased it when falling. Been there too.
usually I only post comments/ideas on this site, so that in future if they develop into anything significant anywhere, I would at least get some recognition
QuoteThe Gravity tho, is always in equilibrium. It's addition can't give any gain, but usually just increases friction. If the weight falls down, it must go up again, reducing the torque by the same amount as it increased it when falling.
yes, although I was also hoping to break-symmetry, with the momentum provided by gravity, or vice versa, but I know you already know all that , and more etc
for me, SMOT 's are probably the most high profile 'possible'( maybe !) quasi?/proto? proof that magnets do accomplish work
In particular, I have noticed at least one SMOT where the metal-ball goes right around a track( not sure how much of the track was just downhill gravity ), and returns back to the original starting point, although it then encountered a .5cm-1cm vertical-gap to go on perpetually, so if you know of the various tricks/methods that are known( available to ) by these makers/designers, you can see how that gap could be bridged
The Advantage Of SMOT 's Over Other Similar Motors
Since SMOT 's use a metal-ball to be the moving part ( instead of a magnet ), there is no sticky-point at the start of the track,
- there are various examples of the metal-ball going through 3 or more SMOT 's,
- not to mention some even more interesting effects
- In similar motors like linear-v-gate-motors, because they use a 'magnet' as the moving-part( instead of a metal-ball) there is always that strong sticky-point at the start of the track, which seems more difficult to overcome than the sticky-point at the end of the SMOT track, at the moment I can't remember, but I'm sure there must be examples of a magnet travelling through 2 or 3 or 4 v-gate tracks
( if there are no examples of :
"a magnet travelling through 2 or 3 or 4 v-gate tracks" , I know that there are various tricks/methods that are known( available to by these makers/designers that should be able to overcome or minimize that problem )
_____________
Pushing Aether Though An Electrical Conductor To Generate Current
For people who think that pushing Aether though an electrical-conductor, could generate current, just as some sort of proof of what Aether is, or what it could do etc, I thought up of some simple possible tests
- A magnet in the shape of a fan or propellor( or a more advanced compressor or contra-rotating design ), which rotates on a shaft, to try and propel Aether,
and then, channel that Aether into a long cylinder-donut-magnet( a small-hole running right through the cylinder-magnet, so that it is a cylinder-donut-magnet ) , this is not only for further compression of the Aether, it is also to separate by distance the Propellor-Magnet and the following metal-wire
so, at the end of the cylinder-donut-magnet, is simply a metal-wire , in a loop?, to try and detect any current
Note : The magnetic-flux changes caused by the rotating Propellor-Magnet, would/could very possibly be transmitted along/through the cylinder-donut-magnet, which could cause a current to flow in the wire, which could give false results, that is a problem I cannot think of how to fix at the moment ( and I assume the sphere-donut invented at the university at barcelona would have the same effect )
But I thought of a much simpler option, that is to simply blow air at a wire( a specially insulated wire, to eliminate any electrostatic effects, etc ), a wire in a loop?, since I'm thinking that all those air-molecule could possibly propel at least some percentage of the Aether, and some of it could go into the wire
And lastly, an idea I assume would not work, it is exactly the same as the first idea involving the Propellor-Magnet( and the cylinder-donut-magnet ), however, in this version, the Propellor-Magnet is replaced by a Non-Rotating Special-Cylinder-Donut-Magnet( it Does Not Rotate ), which has screw-grooves inside the hole, just to see if maybe this Non-Rotating Special-Cylinder-Donut-Magnet can propel Aether to generate current
The momentum and wieght of the magnet , with the help of gravity can break free.
But I don't think its' enough. Place a ring magnet on the top center of a piece of steel pipe, let it roll down one side,
It will travel about 3/4 of the way around the pipe, at a good speed.
Where is the point of the highest speed?
Cut a piece of ~26guage steel, the width of the magnet, to act as a track, wrap it around the pipe, now run the magnet around again.
artv
QuoteI have a question, What happens to a single coil when you short its' leads together, as a magnet is dead center of the coil?
The magnet is sized so it completely leaves one side of the coil before it enters the other.
It approaches , inducing some form of flow, it hits center, flow doesn't stop but instantianously reverses.
Short not the leads together, but one lead back on itself with a properly orientainted diode , positive or negative ,depends on what field your reversing.
The magnet is rotating the coil is stationary.
The coil will produce more.
QuoteShort not the leads together, but one lead back on itself with a properly orientainted diode , positive or negative ,depends on what field your reversing.
I can't build anything for various reasons
It would be great if you'd put an LED on the 'lead bent back on itself with a properly orientated diode' and film it in the dark, to try and prove that current is flowing.
( What your saying in this post is completely new to me, maybe because I have never studied circuitry and I never build anything )
Another modification to try and prove your idea, you could have 2 wire rings, each ring having a diode and an LED, and then connect those 2 wire rings with 'one-single-wire', and induce current flow in just one of the rings, to see if you can make the other ring light up, and film it in the dark.
Unless this concept of only needing 'one-single-wire' to achieve current-flow, is already known by people, you should definitely start a thread to let people know about it, if it works.
QuoteThe momentum and wieght of the magnet , with the help of gravity can break free.
But I don't think its' enough. Place a ring magnet on the top center of a piece of steel pipe, let it roll down one side,
It will travel about 3/4 of the way around the pipe, at a good speed.
Where is the point of the highest speed?
Cut a piece of ~26guage steel, the width of the magnet, to act as a track, wrap it around the pipe, now run the magnet around again.
I may( or may not ) , understand this post
QuoteIt will travel about 3/4 of the way around the pipe, at a good speed.
Where is the point of the highest speed?
My 'MAGNET-GRAVITY-MOTOR -.JPG' diagram posted above, may be my only design where speed is important, because it would be crucial to keep the motor going, via momentum, this one could definitely not work at any type of slow speed
QuoteCut a piece of ~26guage steel, the width of the magnet, to act as a track, wrap it around the pipe, now run the magnet around again.
the addition of the track may cause more friction and therefore slow it down
I would be great to see any magnet( or gravity ) motor function successfully at any speed, speed is definitely not important as long as it keeps spinning( or moving )
your circuitry idea above, could be useful for more than magnet-motors if it functions( even in any way )