will not work
will not work
Hi,
Strangely enough, I think the magnets just work against your wheel's rotation by retarding the rolling of the balls towards the center when any of the horizontal arms continue to form a slope on which the balls would start accelerating towards the center.
I think this by removing all the magnets first and imagine the movement of the balls while you rotate the wheel by hand (giving a small pushing force and let it rotate). What happens is the wheel would stop due to normal friction and air resistance after a few turns because of the fully symmetrical structure. Now you place the magnets and again push the wheel a little, what happens is the magnets will try to keep the balls near to them till they are defeated by gravity: this retards the balls in the near horizontal arms and makes the wheel stop rapidly...
Sorry but this is how I see it. If I fully misunderstood something, then please explain in detail how you think about the role of the magnets. It is ok that: quote "(the magnet has to be strong enough to only be able to roll the ball horizontally and not lift vertically. remember it takes more energy to vertically lift the ball than to roll to the side horizontally)" unquote, but in this setup it is just a drawback I think.
Gyula
One more thing: the topmost ball should not be at the position you drew, it should still stay near the right side magnet in the (upper) horizontal tube, considering the wheel position you show in the picture and assuming counterclockwise rotation.
Gyula
Please look here for some tips:
http://www.hp-gramatke.net/perpetuum/english/page0020.htm (http://www.hp-gramatke.net/perpetuum/english/page0020.htm)
But it seems that it doesn't work.
Best regards
Peter Schmalenbach
will not work
the ball will never "pic up" from the magnet (if horizontally)
the magnetism-forces are only around this magnet.
Think about :
With liquids in tubes , its a way that floating quicklier that
an steel-ball start to roll .
GDP
Quote from: FreeEnergy on November 24, 2006, 06:43:27 AM
all the balls are at correct position. if you take away all the magnets and leave the wheel alone the wheel will be at equilibrium just like the picture.
OK, I agree with this. I edited your picture by numbering the balls from 1 to 4, sorry for the poorer picture quality.
In order to have all the balls in the positions you show, the wheel should rotate clockwise, ok?
If you accept this, then let's rotate the wheel a little, by 5 degrees only towards the right. What happens?
Ball #1 starts immediately rolling towards the end of the now slopy (in the 5 degree tilt) arm and got stuck by the magnet. Agree?
Ball #3 would start rolling the same way in its (also 5 degree tilt) tube towards the center but in order to do so this ball should first escape from the attraction of its magnet there. Agree?
If you agree, this is why I say that the magnet retards the movement of the ball so it works against wanted rotation. In fact, ideally ball #3 should be positioned at the center the moment it was at 90 degree turn earlier when it was at the place where ball #4 is shown now, to help rotation the most efficiently.
Please comment. If you say that your wheel rotates counterclockwise, then the same would be true for ball #1 wrt escaping the attraction of its magnet and move towards the center.
Gyula
will not work
in shown position it cant start!
if 2 balls #1 and #3 are starting from inside
both runs outside in same time .
than also not more rotation
Hi FreeEnergie,
you have to consider the lever laws.
Already in your first picture the device tilt to left (anticlockwise).
3 balls on the left side and 1 ball on the right side.
It cannot turn clockwise.
Regards
Peter
will not work
will not work
Quote from: FreeEnergy on November 24, 2006, 07:15:12 PM
answer me this if i take out all magnets what would be the dead point of equilibrium of the wheel?
Hi,
My answer is: there can be two dead points, either tilt to the left or tilt to right, depending on where the torque received at the starting push is consumed by friction and air resistance. So when the wheel stops there will always be 3 balls on the left and 1 ball on the right or 1 ball on the left and 3 balls on the right.
And in case of having the magnets at the places you drew, the same thing will happen but the wheel will come to a stop rapidly wrt the no magnets case, assuming the same pushing force on the wheel like in the no magnet case. As I had indicated this would be so due to the attracting force of the magnets when the balls were to escape from them they could not move immediately away but only a little later when gravity could defeat the attraction force.
I still cannot understand what you think you gain by using the magnets? In your wheel setup the magnets just hinder rotation by retarding the movements of the balls in the horizontal arms. This is what I think. It is a very good idea to build this wheel model for yourself and prove me (or others here) wrong.
rgds
Gyula
will not work
sorry :)
a better version is here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,894.0.html