I would be curious if there is any interest in these efforts.
Cheers
Sorry, I have chosen to remove content until moderator approves.
Moderator? Sorry, I have chosen to remove content until a moderator approves.
Okay, not certain which moderator to thank but am thankful, none the less.
Okay, lets get right to it!
WikipediA defines resonant inductive coupling or magnetic phase synchronous coupling as a phenomenon with inductive coupling where the coupling becomes stronger when the "secondary" (load-bearing) side of the loosely coupled coil resonates. This definition opens up a variety of ideas for me to investigate as I immediately saw an opportunity to remove all mechanics from the picture developing in my mind.
Conceptually, I clearly visualized a segmented group of electromagnets (primary coils) with each segment being pulsed in sequence which, in turn, were coupled to numerous secondary "collector" coils that resonate to the frequency at which the individual groups of electromagnets were being pulsed. All this is happening in a spinning magnetic field generated by the positioning and sequential pulsing of the electromagnets. Meanwhile, every single collector coil gets coupled with every single pulse of an electromagnet. The secondary or collector coils are actually tuned LC coils that are designed to resonate with the induced pulsing DC current provided to the electromagnets. Combined with the established rotating magnetic "field" and a secondary with no resistance (no inductive reactance or capacitive reactance) to current flow, the generator should become highly efficient.
Any thoughts . . . ?
The following illustration may help you understand my vision. Oh yes, I have been building the illustrated research tool and preliminary testing is quite encouraging.
Oops, thought the animated gif. file would be supported here. So, no animation! What was to be demonstrated was the reversal of magnetic field in each segment as the pulsing continued around the toroid. Imagine this at a significantly higher frequency.
Hi CoastieRM2,
Would like to ask how you would attempt to take energy out from your setup?
Resonant LC coils normally work at reduced Q quality factors whenever one attempts to couple out energy from them, unfortunately, and any voltage 'gain' becomes less the more load is imposed.
A question: do you use the electromagnets for doing 'tasks' other than exciting the tuned LC coils? Also, do you use ferromagnetic cores in the coils? Also, how many 'segmented electromagnets' you are using? I ask just to better learn about your setup.
Thanks, Gyula
Quote from: CoastieRM2 on January 19, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
Okay, not certain which moderator to thank but am thankful, none the less.
Okay, lets get right to it!
WikipediA defines resonant inductive coupling or magnetic phase synchronous coupling as a phenomenon with inductive coupling where the coupling becomes stronger when the "secondary" (load-bearing) side of the loosely coupled coil resonates. This definition opens up a variety of ideas for me to investigate as I immediately saw an opportunity to remove all mechanics from the picture developing in my mind.
Conceptually, I clearly visualized a segmented group of electromagnets (primary coils) with each segment being pulsed in sequence which, in turn, were coupled to numerous secondary "collector" coils that resonate to the frequency at which the individual groups of electromagnets were being pulsed. All this is happening in a spinning magnetic field generated by the positioning and sequential pulsing of the electromagnets. Meanwhile, every single collector coil gets coupled with every single pulse of an electromagnet. The secondary or collector coils are actually tuned LC coils that are designed to resonate with the induced pulsing DC current provided to the electromagnets. Combined with the established rotating magnetic "field" and a secondary with no resistance (no inductive reactance or capacitive reactance) to current flow, the generator should become highly efficient.
Any thoughts . . . ?
The following illustration may help you understand my vision. Oh yes, I have been building the illustrated research tool and preliminary testing is quite encouraging.
Hi Gyula,
Thanks for the input and the question. Frankly, and I realize I am exposing my lack of knowledge here, I was hoping to address the Q factor with the unique use of magnetic field(s) and the unorthodox design. This particular build is my third attempt in creating manipulative magnetic field(s). I have allowed myself the flexibility and mindset to approach and attempt to solve problems as they arose. I wanted to create a complex of nine spinning magnetic fields in one overall larger magnetic field resembling a spinning vortex that I could manipulate with controlled pulsing patterns.
Currently all my electromagnets are custom wound by myself and then hand threaded on continuous wire cores with strategically placed Neodymium Ring Magnets for field orientation memory when electromagnets are absent charge. In each of the nine segments of the toroid there are two primary coil layers with three electromagnets mounted on wire in the inner primary layer of coils and six electromagnets mounted on wire in the outer primary layer of coils. Each segment is then pulsed in sequence with the controller. The controller can activate the electromagnets one at a time in sequence or be rewired to control three segments of electromagnets at one time in sequence. To visualize the energized magnetic fields, a fluid dampened compass was placed at the very center of the toroid to monitor overall magnetic field rotation and a special halo with nine fluid dampened magnets can be positioned to monitor individual magnetic field rotation. Magnetic field observations consistently show the center compass spinning counter clock wise with controllable speed by varying the pulse frequency with the individual halo compasses reacting to the closest segment being pulsed by spinning in the opposite direction (clock wise) of the center compass. Apparent saturation occurs and all compasses lock into position with the center compass parking at the same spot repeatedly and the halo compasses parking with the "N" pointing slightly towards the center.
With the 1 innermost collector coil, 18 mid level collector coils and 12 of planned 36 outside collector coils installed, preliminary testing shows significant EMF from the collector coils with no attempt to tune to resonance. As the pulse frequency is increased to the point where the compasses lock into position, the previously observed EMF will continue to increase with increased pulse frequency.
Hi CoastieRM2,
Thanks for the additional details, and we all surely have a certain lack of knowledge. All what counts in the end is what the test results show in practice. You will arrive at useful insights when you attempt to take out energy from the circling magnetic fields, just carry on building and testing.
Gyula
Aye Gyula,
Just recieved new order of wire, maybe now, I can finish this tool and then let the real work begin.
The lack of knowledge in this area extends far beyond current theory.
There's a particular Joule Thief configuration I toy with from time to time
That destroys capacitors way larger than any theoretical capacity of
"a dead AA battery".
10 years into periodically reducing my capacitor supply
And I haven't learned much about it.
Everyone just tells me "don't do that"
I can't argue, because nothing good has come of it
Neither can I help my curiosity
Aye smOKy2,
If I gain nothing out of this venture other than a better understanding of electricity, the effort and the expense will have been worth it. As I get closer to finishing the tool, my curiosity overtakes my build routine and I have to play with it a bit. Fortunately, I do believe that I have developed a tool that is interesting and exciting at the same time. I think the learning curve is about to take a huge increase.
Just for the fun of it , I am including some initial testing samplings and additional build photos.
BTW, the initial testing verifies active magnetic field control, pulsing frequency control, and interesting output signals with less that 1/3 of the planned secondary coils active with dramatic increase in secondary output with increased pulsing frequency and additional secondary coils installed!
The common electrical theory tells us that, at resonant frequency
inductance falls off completely, and that there would be no flux.
I find this to not be true, at least in practice. This may be because of
small variance in the 'true' resonance conditions between coils and core.
Like, we may not be able to ever match them perfectly enough to
reach a state of pure electrical oscillations with no magnetic field.
(I assumed at first this occurs in a lab, but have not seen it,
as it turns out, the best labs cannot do it)
So when we build a device, like a joule thief, or whatever
and try to bring it close to resonance, we might can match the
self-resonant frequency of the coils, or of the core, but both might
not have a common factor. (within our available range)
Even when we maticulously engineer them to be this way, it may not
be possible to have the level of precision to achieve the 'ideal situation'.
So, when we expect to find no magnetic flux, because there is no
resistance to electric flux, there is in fact, magnetic flux.
We can create an ideal situation when there is just one inductor and core
and in this state theory holds true.
The inductor stops working at pure resonance.
We have to actually use it slightly lower or higher than its self resonant freq.
However, when there is a secondary, or multiple inductive couplings, we do not
achieve this state.
Undoubtedly there exists variables we cannot remove, or have not yet identified.
Self-interference may be the cause. The dynamics of which, I don't think are very
well understood.
The same occurs when the inductive coupling is resonant, outside the self-resonance
of the core, or coils. (I.e. other resonant frequencies)
Tesla may have been the only person that truly understood that relationship.
When we think about "what" we are actually doing here
We are trying to match impedance with inductance.
In two ideal states both approach zero or infinity.
We have either no flux or no change in current.
In the latter, Einstein gives some relativistic perspective
However this violates Maxwell
Clearly, our electrical theory falls short.
Experiment, experiment, experiment
That is all we can do.
The answer lies somewhere between input and output
Which varies with frequency. (comparison of many resonant couplings)
Millions of research dollars are currently being spent trying to unravel this.
But it seems we are not much closer now than we were in the 70's.
My thoughts are that Einstein was wrong, at least as it pertains
to the propagation velocity of the magnetic field.
I say this because much of Einstein's work was based on
Maxwell's work. Therefore, if one contradicts the other,
both cannot be correct.
There are other unrelated experiments that seem to verify this.
And if we assume that the magnetic field propagates instantaneously
rather than at c, the real-world situation is expressed more closely
by the mathematical representation.
This, coupled with the time-independent function of the magnetic field,
makes more sense to me.
Aye smOky2,
it is my prevailing thought, the one that keeps me awake at night, that there is an answer that we must keep searching for. Hopefully, I have set a course that will assist in finding the clues that will eventually enable discovery. In the mean time, back to the build.
Build continues . . .
Oh Wow! I thought I had achieved something today when I got my new table drill mounted securely on a wooden slab with rubber feet under it.
That looks like a work of art!
PS. if you have hundreds of ideas sometimes it feels nothing gets done and there is no progress. Then you just end up looking at videos in Youtube.
The solution is to write down all your ideas, so you don't forget the good stuff. Then do just one thing every day. It could be just ordering missing parts or wrapping one coil. This makes you go forward all the time and not just watching videos all night and then trying to sleep with the same idea in your head every night.
Have been making progress with the build. Completed 4 secondary coils yesterday alone, making that a very good day. As with every step of this build, nothing has been easy. Hoping to finish the remaining secondary coils (12) without damaging any primary connections. BIG concern as any needed repair would require removal of secondary coils. A task I would not enjoy!
While taking some time to double check connectivity to this point in the build, my curiosity got the better of me and I had to explore a little more. A couple of anomalies have surfaced and will attempt to describe hoping someone may be able to provide some insight.
With the device powered up and the control unit adjusted to pulsing the primary (electromagnet) coils at a frequency of 2.000Hz, all appears to be functioning as anticipated. That is, visible magnetic field rotation with visible secondary rotation at each of the nine primary sets of electromagnets and a small amount of energy available on the secondary (collector) coils. This verification is made possible with strategically located compasses reflecting the described rotation.
Apologies for the poor video of the compasses but I am still learning the limitations of the site also.
With the unit powered up and I increase the pulsing frequency of the primary coils, as the frequency approaches that of the Schumann Cavity (7.813Hz) the compasses begin to slow and come to a complete stop slightly above same. The output energy on the secondary coils however, continues to increase. As the compasses appear to park themselves, I find it interesting that they have parked themselves in alignment with the built in magnetic memory of the magnet cores. I am perplexed by the apparent loss of active magnetic flux found at lower frequencies and the increase in induced energy without the presence of an active magnetic flux. There is, most likely, an obvious explanation. Will have to do some homework I guess.
Edited (corrected) version of above . . .
With the unit powered up and increasing the pulsing frequency of the primary coils to near that of the Schumann Cavity (7.813Hz), the compasses have both stopped spinning, appear parked and are slightly vibrating. The output energy on the secondary coils however, continues to increase. As the compasses appear to park themselves, I find it interesting that they have parked themselves in alignment with the built in magnetic memory of the magnet cores. I am perplexed by the apparent loss of "active", or excited, magnetic flux found at lower frequencies and the increase in induced energy without the presence of an active magnetic flux. There is, most likely, an obvious explanation. Will have to do some homework I guess.
Taking a break for a few days for a much needed trip down island. Plan to park my butt in the sand somewhere and let the Caribbean sun and surf wash away this winter's crud. Perhaps I may even get an idea, or two, regarding the anomalies.
The project and the conversation got off to a good start
and has aroused considerable interest. Would it be
possible to see an update?
Fascinating device.
if you want to produce a 700% OU voltage multiplication* with a coil with resonance, please check this video from Rick Friedrich :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18kOGVfkoik
it uses the term "resonant inductive coupling" in a very simple way.
I can explain the experience further if needed.
* from 12 to 15 volts to light a 100V bulb, same amperes.
Quote from: benfr on April 24, 2019, 04:57:43 AM
if you want to produce a 700% OU voltage multiplication* with a coil with resonance, please check this video from Rick Friedrich :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18kOGVfkoik
it uses the term "resonant inductive coupling" in a very simple way.
I can explain the experience further if needed.
* from 12 to 15 volts to light a 100V bulb, same amperes.
Well resonance is room temperature super conductivity. OU is not very difficult to achieve. Biggest step is to get your head out of your ass. It seems to block the amperage ;)
It took me 2 years to get my head out. Rick uses one battery and mosfet to DC pulse a motor and then uses the BEMF from the motor to charge another battery. He used this setup to drive a large boat around for 3 years. Rick has good videos on how Kirchhoff breaks down as soon as you introduce frequency and branches to the circuit. Pretty much what Professor Lewin has said for ages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZN0AyNR4Kw
Lewin is going to lose his job, because he is saying stuff that the energy companies (and the 4 trolls those companies have on this forum) do not like to hear
I just go with caps, because I don't like swapping batteries out or creating auto-rotation for them.
This might get you few inches out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdQt3nPWBDQ
People just down realize the answer is very simple and there are a multitude of ways to take advantage of these principles. Like no plant or animal or what ever do stuff the same exact way. You can strip most of the stuff away from these Kapagens and other circuits. They are just there to make you dizzy and waste 10 years of your life hunting some frequency or standing wave.
Okay, okay, OKAY already! This thing is keeping me awake at nights again so back to work . . . I had found a wiring mistake in one of the collector coils which required the removal of the majority of the coils on that particular level creating a huge disappointment for me. I have finally found the motivation to fix the problem and get back to work. I am convinced, in my mind, that this design and its' early testing has potential, thus I am fast at work again. The short story is I screwed up, and the long story is I took a break to find the gumption to disassemble and reassemble the majority of the collection coils on this critical layer.
I have only the outer (and final) layer to coils (36) to thread, mount and connect. Test for continuity and start the process to researching optimal frequency of operation for maximum output. This will, no doubt, also require some tuning of the coils which remain out of near resonance meaning I have a ton of work yet ahead of me.
I will post again when I have made any progress of significance.
Quote from: benfr on April 24, 2019, 04:57:43 AM
if you want to produce a 700% OU voltage multiplication* with a coil with resonance, please check this video from Rick Friedrich :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18kOGVfkoik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18kOGVfkoik)
it uses the term "resonant inductive coupling" in a very simple way.
I can explain the experience further if needed.
* from 12 to 15 volts to light a 100V bulb, same amperes.
https://www.3ders.org/articles/20160305-3d-printed-pmg-generator-has-everything-you-need-to-power-a-50w-lightbulb.html (https://www.3ders.org/articles/20160305-3d-printed-pmg-generator-has-everything-you-need-to-power-a-50w-lightbulb.html)
"...., might one day be able to power the 3D printer that 3D prints itself which in turn 3D prints its own generator. resonant generation coupling ? ::)
Work continues . . .
Have finished installing all coils and initial tests indicate no loss of continuity to electromagnets which is a good sign as this has proven to be a very difficult accomplishment. Now the plan is to bring 10 groups of coils into approximate equal inductance using variable inductors. Once completed, one group of coils will be designated to return energy to the controller with the remaining nine coil groups being used to harvest energy. The coil I plan to use to return energy to the controller poses the most difficulty since my search for variable inductors has not produced the inductance I'm seeking, hence, I am attempting to make my own. The nine output coil groups, however, are already close to inductive balance and variable inductors are easily secured for that challenge. Once these steps are complete then I plan to modify the controller to gain the frequency range needed to bring the device into near resonance. The search for near resonance will be daunting as I am using a pulsing DC signal, fighting back EMF off the electromagnets and, attempting to balance inductive and capacitative reactances. Sounds impossible but some rules are made to be broken! Aren't they?
Finally had some time to play around a little and thought it might be helpful to share some scope comparison between final collector coils to those previously posted. . . If I am reading the scope correctly, I am making progress! Channel 1 is my input signal and channel two is my output signal. If I am not mistaken, I show an output factor of 4x what is being used to produce it. This is without any subsequent amplification or Tom foolery, simply induced current in excess of what is being applied. Comments please. I need feedback on this as I have been told that this is impossible to do. By the way, this is without the designed resonance of the output coils. That is yet to come as I believe I have a signal strong enough to drive resonance. I just have to figure that out yet.
do geometric dimensions matter? Should it be a torus of the correct form?
Hi CoastieRM2,
Would like to ask if your scope shows an unloaded output waveform or you have a load across the output?
If it is an unloaded waveform, how does it change when you use say a 100 or 1000 Ohm load resistor? (resistor value is your choice)
As per your input and output scope shots, you definitely have higher output voltage with higher duty cycle and frequency, compared to the input, respectively.
Another 'nasty' question would be how the input power draw changes when you load the output with a 100 or 1000 Ohm resistor? (resistor value is your choice)
Thanks for showing this interesting setup.
Gyula
Hi gyulasun,
Have been attempting to upload scope screen shots reflecting a 120 Ohm load across the output. Don't know if the system is busy or what but can't seem to get images up. Briefly, however, the output drops off while the input remains constant. Will keep trying to upload images.
Hi gyulasun,
Here are the screen shots . . .
torus from a children's pyramid, irregularly shaped. It did not give anything different from a simple inductor.
Quote from: CoastieRM2 on September 29, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
Hi gyulasun,
Here are the screen shots . . .
Hi CoastiRM2,
Thanks for the further scope shots. It looks like the 120 Ohm load is too heavy for a maximum power transfer match at the output, a higher value resistor should be used in the 680-720 Ohm range, considering say the 3.75 Vrms unloaded output voltage versus the 0.566 Vrms across the 120 Ohm. It is okay that the output voltage drops, the question is (you surely know this) that at a power match (when the output voltage drops to half at a certain higher than 120 Ohm load), how the power dissipated in that resistor compares to the input power.
It looks like the output impedance of your setup is roughly around 680-700 Ohm at the present output frequency.
It is very good the load does not affect the input.
Do you use a function generator to drive directly the input or you use a switching device to drive the input and then this switching device is what you drive with a function generator? I am curious whether the input signal could be provided by a dedicated low power pulse oscillator whose supply voltage would come from the rectified (and regulated) output voltage... ;) Of course this has sense only when the loaded output power is at least 1.2 times higher than the input (or around that).
Gyula
There were a few years ago guys from ABHA Coil . What do you say about them? As I understand it, they had OU ?
Hi gyulasun,
What a hectic couple of days. Had to replace computer and now have two applications, which I heavily depended on, decide not to be compatible on new computer. Uggggghhhh!
As per your last, been working on the load values which has always been of high concern with this design. As per your question regarding the input signal, it is being provided by a low power switching device that also allows some control over the frequency and number of channels being used. If I need to step the frequency up in excess of 100hz, a timing modification will be required. Yes, the plan has always been to dedicate a portion of the output back for the purpose of powering the device which, in turn, explains the need to for a low, very stable, power input signal and low power electromagnets. Please keep in mind that while this device was designed specifically for research, flexibility in input signal frequency, number and sequence of input channels being used, strength and shape of electromagnetic field, polarity memory, and sufficient EMF were all given consideration. The actual construction of the device, as designed was, at times, a nightmare. Choosing a pulsed DC signal seemed logical for the low power requirement but has created some mad math difficulty in calculating resonance. Currently, I am building my own variable inductors which is my priority. I must get an output set of coils tuned to balance out the inductive reactance and the capacitive reactance within the frequency range of the controller. I would not have been attempting this had I not read somewhere while researching resonance that Pulsing DC current can drive resonance. That is my next hurdle, so to speak, as I am extremely curious if my design will maintain an EMF at resonance. If not, the alternative plan will be to back off the frequency a bit and keep it "near" resonance.
Cheers,
Hi CoastieRM2,
Just have it your way, and I did not mean any hurry. Thanks for the further details and I wish you good luck.
Gyula
This is a new pancake coil, it's just an experiment, I don't have an oscilloscope to see more details, I hope it's useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4EWuEKWdxs&t=265s
Thought I'd do a progress report this morning . . . Been slow here, had to design and build some low frequency balancing and tuning inductors. Process of mounting the inductors is well underway. Once completed, will have 9 coil sets tuned to an inductive reactance value of 4.000mH. Again, the thought process is to have all coil sets fall into resonance (or near resonance) simultaneously leaving the spinning magnetic field serve as the EMF to move electrons within the device.
Even if it doesn't work, it's a beautiful piece of art. :)
Just a quick update here as I am busy reworking the device. I have learned enough from the previous device to keep me encouraged in my endeavors. Some disappointments but more positive results and I shall update when I have something to share . . .
VERY DARING GUY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFzAPWXbXtE
Quote from: CoastieRM2 on January 09, 2021, 11:04:23 PM
Just a quick update here as I am busy reworking the device. I have learned enough from the previous device to keep me encouraged in my endeavors. Some disappointments but more positive results and I shall update when I have something to share . . .
Having to re-design and build a stronger coupling.
Just a little hint. Download the Don Smith pdf and I think you will find all your answers there regarding an L1 resonant powering several L2's in a simple way