Hello,
I have been involved in the 'free energy' movement for a good number of years. During my years of searching I had encountered the idea of using liquid air for power so when I re-read a certain magazine article some things leaped out at me that I failed to see the importance of earlier.
Although this Tesla article has been posted before, allow me to quote a few pertinent excerpts.
Quote
The Problem Of Increasing Human Energy, With Special References To The Harnessing Of The Sun's Energy
The Century Illustrated Magazine, June 1900.
"First let us ask: Whence comes all the motive power? What is the spring that drives all? .... All this energy emanates from one single center, one single source - the sun. The sun is the spring that drives all."
"...Suppose that an extremely low temperature could be maintained by some process in a given space; the surrounding medium would then be compelled to give off heat, which could be converted into mechanical or other form of energy, and utilized. By realizing such a plan, we should be enabled to get at any point of the globe a continuous supply of energy, day and night.
"...I finally conceived a combination of apparatus which should make possible the obtaining of power from the medium by a process of continuous cooling of atmospheric air. This apparatus, by continually transforming heat into mechanical work, tended to become colder and colder, and if it only were practicable to reach a very low temperature in this manner, then a sink for the heat could be produced, and energy could be derived from the medium."
The Sun's Energy. Not 'cosmic rays' or vibrations from the aether. Heat. Heat in the atmosphere, hundreds of degrees above absolute zero.
Tesla devised a machine that accomplished the goals in the article, but he never finished the supporting apparatus for the heat sink. His lab was burned while this research was in progress, delaying his work, allowing other people to patent the remaining processes before him. I believe this is why this system was abandoned, not because it wouldn't work, but because he could no longer patent it.
I believe that J.F. Place (and others) later devised the remainder of the necessary components that Tesla needed for the creation of a liquid air heat sink.
The machine is embodied in patent 514,169 Reciprocating Engine. This reciprocating engine is really a mechanical oscillator heat engine. When powered by compressed air it produces both heat and cold.
Take a close look at the patent drawing in 514,169. The oscillator is not designed to produce shaft power (although it can). The drive piston receives a small metered pulse of air. This oscillator works exactly like a pendulum, and the air supplied is just enough to keep the piston going at the desired rate. The inertia of the two pistons also plays an important part.
If you have studied the methods used for creating liquid air you know that a small pulse of pressurized air allowed to expand while doing work undergoes a temperature drop of 125 degrees F or more. This is a critical step in the creation of liquid air by a piston machine and the oscillator is designed to do this.
The air exhausted from cylinder A, which contains the drive piston, is always colder than the supply air. By recirculating this air in the manner shown in the following patents, the exhaust becomes partly liquid air which can be removed and stored in simple containers.
Patent of James F. Place
Apparatus for liquefying air US711525
Other patents of interest:
Art or process of producing liquid air US918468A
Air liquefier and separator US1146020A
Vessel for holding and shipping liquid air or other liquid gases US707634A
Also see Compressed Air Magazine 1902 pg 2229 under the heading Continuous Power.
Once enough liquid air is produced by the oscillator an ambient temperature boiler can convert the liquid to a very cold high pressure gas that in turn can run the oscillator, which will return the gas to its liquid state, and the cycle can continue. A compressor is no longer required once this stage has been reached.
The other product of the oscillator is high heat from compression in the air spring. Imagine the possibilities with both high heat and extreme cold.
Nature has given us a source of high heat in our atmosphere and I believe we have everything listed here to create our own power from this oven we live in.
Cadman
Medieval language describes the operation principle of an air conditioner with a pneumatic drive instead of an electric one.
I would not be so dismissive ...its not Cadman's first summer.
harvesting from the environment has tremendous potential ....
would definitely like to understand this "liquid air" and simple storage .
Quote from: ramset on February 13, 2018, 05:35:24 PM
I would not be so dismissive ...its not Cadman's first summer.
harvesting from the environment has tremendous potential ....
would definitely like to understand this "liquid air" and simple storage .
I have devoted considerable time and thought to this and if I had the means to retire and work on this full time, i would.
At first glance this may all seem very complicated but the principle is simple.
The key action is to expand a compressed gas (air) while it is allowed to do work. The work done in this case is driving a piston in the oscillator and the gas would expand until it reaches the ambient pressure or close to it, then the gas exits through the exhaust port. That's all it takes to substantially cool the gas.
The tubes or pipes connected to the intake and exhaust ports of the oscillator are one inside the other. The exhaust is a large diameter and the intake is one or more small diameter tubes inside the exhaust tube. This forms a heat exchanger. The cold exhaust passes over the intake tubes and absorbs heat from the intake charge. The cooled intake charge enters the oscillator, is cooled even more, exhausts, and cools the next incoming charge even colder. After a time the incoming charge is so cold that the next expansion lowers the temperature to the liquefaction point of the air. Not all of the air will liquefy and the portion that does drains into a basin attached to the exhaust pipe at the oscillator engine.
That's how you make liquid air.
Of course the actual machine requires effective insulation along with other considerations like avoiding sharp turns or changes in the direction of the gas which will heat the gas, etc.
If you have never looked into this sort of thing, start by reading the Compressed Air Magazine article, that will give you a foundation for understanding. Then study the Apparatus for liquefying air US711525 patent for details of the system layout. Ignore the reciprocating piston engine in the patent as we would be substituting the oscillator engine in it's place.
While you think about all this, don't forget the heat from the oscillator. That heat is more than enough to run a Stirling engine of significant power all by itself.
"The work done in this case is driving a piston in the oscillator and the gas would expand until it reaches the ambient pressure or close to it, then the gas exits through the exhaust port. That's all it takes to substantially cool the gas."
are you sure about it ? i know that gas under pressure when exit through the small orifice will cool itself, but not sure if it can at the same time do mechanical work inside the chamber, rather outside it would be maybe possibe...
Quote from: forest on February 14, 2018, 11:56:50 AM
"The work done in this case is driving a piston in the oscillator and the gas would expand until it reaches the ambient pressure or close to it, then the gas exits through the exhaust port. That's all it takes to substantially cool the gas."
are you sure about it ? i know that gas under pressure when exit through the small orifice will cool itself, but not sure if it can at the same time do mechanical work inside the chamber, rather outside it would be maybe possibe...
Absolutely positive. This has been known for well over a hundred years. Read the Compressed Air Magazine article. It will surprise if not astonish you.
Cadman
when searching for this article ...all I find is Aaron now [Energetic forum]
quote
Also see Compressed Air Magazine 1902 pg 2229 under the heading Continuous Power.
end quote
maybe a link to the 1902 [found newer mentions but not the one you site
respectfully
Chet
ps
RE making liquid air ...
very interested and others will be too [skilled others]
and all open source of course !!
PPS
I see below
Thanks
Here you go. Suggest you download the pdf version and save it.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Compressed_Air_Magazine.html?id=HjY0AQAAMAAJ
It's useless.
It will never be possible to achieve self-rotation of this "machine" without fuel.
The reason for this is very serious. Law of physics.
This law is called the "Carnot cycle":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle)
Dear Cadman.
I've heard about this subject before. Maybe when the weather gets a little better here I'll build something. My credentials....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHQKtDbZUXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHQKtDbZUXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnL8h1em45o
Over at OUR we have been researching an almost forgotten technology the " Trompe " see....
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3586.msg66765;topicseen#msg66765
Please let me know if you have any ideas on a design or simplification we could try?
Cheers Graham.
These forgotten technologies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine)
And it is correct that they are forgotten. The efficiency of the steam engine is low.
Quote from: Sergh on February 14, 2018, 01:50:19 PM
It's useless.
It will never be possible to achieve self-rotation of this "machine" without fuel.
The reason for this is very serious. Law of physics.
This law is called the "Carnot cycle":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle)
Sergh,
In the first place it is not a "law" it is a theorem.
Carnot's theorem states:
All heat engines between two heat reservoirs are less efficient than a Carnot heat engine operating between the same reservoirs.
Every Carnot heat engine between a pair of heat reservoirs is equally efficient, regardless of the working substance employed or the operation details.
Please make the effort to see the complete picture here and maybe you will understand why the theorem just might not prevent this system from working. There are more than two heat reservoirs in one engine.
If all you are here for is to try to debunk this before it ever gets off the ground, then please, butt out.
However, if you have any positive input then welcome to the thread.
Graham
Welcome to the thread.
If this system is ever going to be built it will be through the efforts of people like yourself. I am working on the design for a small prototype at this point. I have no doubt there will still be a lot of trial and error before we get there. I found a picture the other day of one of Tesla's first prototype oscillators. It was a tube about 4" in diameter with an air fitting in the middle. Not exactly high tech!
I have been following the investigation of the Trompe over there. What a marvelous machine! Free air compression from natures bounty. I also have the "Taylor Hydraulic Air Compressor and Transmission of Power by Compressed Air" book. Lots of info on the Trompe at losttechnology.org too.
Cadman
In more complex form:
- it is impossible to produce energy without the presence of its gradient in a given space.
Even near to a black hole, the laws of physics will be the same:
QuoteCompared to this chilly character, the rest of the universe is a relatively balmy 2.7 kelvin (about -270 ˚C), thanks to the cosmic microwave background (CMB), the heat left over from the explosion of the big bang. The team calculated that an Earth-sized planet orbiting a black hole that appeared a similar size to our sun in the sky could extract around 900 watts of useful power from this temperature difference – enough for life to potentially exist, but hardly enough to run a civilisation.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2073577-black-hole-sun-could-support-bizarre-life-on-orbiting-planets/ (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2073577-black-hole-sun-could-support-bizarre-life-on-orbiting-planets/)
Sergh
you have a lot to say around the forum lately ??
and in a very confrontational way...
maybe you should present an experiment somewhere [in your own thread]
and see how that goes??
please respect thread starters and their topics ,this one has interest for many reasons.
and the man who started it is a true asset to this community.
no reason to have to moderate a thread if people respect the rules..
respectfully submitted
Chet K
It's sad if the rules of this forum require everyone to approve and agree. So it was before in the Soviet Union. Everyone had to approve of any actions of the Communist Party. But if you go this way, you can not go anywhere.
It seems more an entitlement issue [on your part]
Cadman is building [or wants to]
and you feel the need to stop him...and others too ..on other threads here.
if he was building a house and you walked in like this??
will you be telling us its bed time soon ??
its actually a respect issue
please respect the threads here or ??
start your own and see how that goes
You have been asked to refrain from off topic comments which add no value.
build your own house/thread and invite everyone...
Cadmans PDF again
https://books.google.com/books/about/Compressed_Air_Magazine.html?id=HjY0AQAAMAAJ
Cadman can build what he wants.
But before building it, it is desirable for him to read not only one article of 1902, but to study modern information in this field of science and technology.
The current state is:
- there are many modern similar devices. They produce a liquid from the gas.
They are developed by professional scientists and engineers, they are made at high-tech factories by skilled workers.
Some of them have efficiency >> 1. For example, air conditioners Zubadan from Mitsubishi have heating COP = 3.52 and more.
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/2167.htm (http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/2167.htm)
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/rd/advance/pdf/vol130/vol130_tr5.pdf (http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/rd/advance/pdf/vol130/vol130_tr5.pdf)
- but even with such a high efficiency, it is impossible to make a self-rotating device from such an air conditioner. An external source of energy is always needed. The reason for this is the Carnot cycle
Very interesting idea.
Work can be done as long as there is a temperature difference.
We don't need fuel to acheive this temperature difference.
If the efficiencies of these products are truly higher than 1, they should be able to generate sustained movement. If they cannot, then their efficiencies are most likely lower than 1.
Quote from: Sergh on February 15, 2018, 01:10:32 AM
Cadman can build what he wants.
But before building it, it is desirable for him to read not only one article of 1902, but to study modern information in this field of science and technology.
The current state is:
- there are many modern similar devices. They produce a liquid from the gas.
They are developed by professional scientists and engineers, they are made at high-tech factories by skilled workers.
Some of them have efficiency >> 1. For example, air conditioners Zubadan from Mitsubishi have heating COP = 3.52 and more.
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/2167.htm (http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/2167.htm)
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/rd/advance/pdf/vol130/vol130_tr5.pdf (http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/rd/advance/pdf/vol130/vol130_tr5.pdf)
- but even with such a high efficiency, it is impossible to make a self-rotating device from such an air conditioner. An external source of energy is always needed. The reason for this is the Carnot cycle
Well, I tried.
Have you ever thought you could judge the validity or worth of a topic on this forum by the rapidity the first troll appears?
Less than one hour for this thread.
Sergh doesn't even know what my idea consists of. Page 2 the subject has already disappeared.
Sad isn't it.
Please continue Cadman. There are some of us that are interested in what you are proposing. Tesla was no fool. If he thought the idea had some merit then it is certainly worth looking into.
Ignore the trolls. I have many times been accused of being a naysayer myself because I like to ask technical questions or suggest that an idea might not prove out in the real world. But we have many trolls on this forum that are so rude they will just attack without even giving an idea a chance. Mostly they just demonstrate their ignorance.
Respectfully,
Carroll
If temperature differences are involved, do you think that Nitinol would be beneficial in the oscillators construction to help it continue running? Could Nikola Tesla have invented his own Nitinol but not disclosed it?
Dear Cadman.
It's nought but a minor distraction, take a deep breath and please carry on!
Nobody mentioned OU did they?
A super cool fluid attached to ambient will create a temperature differential, something that a Sterling cycle engine could employ.
Looking forward to reading more.
Cheers Graham.
Indeed !!
even getting to experiment in Phase changes would be wonderful Too
Cadman ,
can you reference any page numbers in this magazine you linked to
https://books.google.com/books/about/Compressed_Air_Magazine.html?id=HjY0AQAAMAAJ
it is still very hard for me to read ATM [ongoing Eye Surgeries]
and scrolling and reading is ruff.
much appreciated
Hi Chet.
You've done better than I.... can't even open the B thing!! ;D
Cheers Graham.
I had help........[I'm all thumbs...
I'll touch base before "closing time" in the UK
once you go to the page
the little gear thing in the top right side / corner [I forget what it stands for]
click on that and it gives you choices ,and then you have to send the file to a saving place on your computer .[thanks to Tinsel for the help]
I'll show you later on Skype if it doesn't work for you
its a neet Magazine..
Hi Mr Cadman, hello any chance of you discussing your invention on here I'm sure we are all interested on
your shared Tesla device.
PS on a general theme if any one is going to use abbreviations any chance they could display it in brackets once please, many thanks.
Allen.
Chet,
It's page 2229. That's the page number on the document, it's about page 530 in the pdf.
----
OK, breath taken. All is calm now so let's continue.
Earlier I referred to the Compressed Air article as background information to any who are unfamiliar with how J. F. Place produced liquid air by expanding pressurized air while the air performed work.
As an aside, even though the term 'liquid air' is used here, the term applies equally well to liquid nitrogen or other mediums.
To explain the working premise of my invention let's start with water and speak in somewhat general terms. 100 C is the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure, the temperature where water becomes a gas (steam). Water at one atmosphere can not reach a temperature of 101 C because at that temperature it is no longer water, it is steam. At less than 100 C it is water.
Likewise, liquid air will transition between a gas and a liquid with a temperature variation of a few degrees above or below it's liquefaction temperature. With this small temperature change the volume will vary greatly.
It takes considerable energy to lower the temperature of the air hundreds of degrees in order to liquify it in large quantity and that energy has to be spent up front. No way around it. Fortunately, liquified gas is available for purchase in industrial quantities. What I have devised is a system to maintain that low temperature within a narrow range while still obtaining substantial work. Work performed both directly and indirectly. Directly by allowing a small portion of the liquid air to revert to a gas by absorbing a few degrees of heat just prior to entering the oscillator and using that gas in the expansion cylinder to maintain the motion of the pistons. Remember the Tesla oscillator functions as a pendulum so the work needed is just enough to prevent the decay of it's oscillations. The expansion of the gas while working the piston will lower it's temperature more than enough to return it to a liquid. Thus the oscillator can use heat from the environment to maintain it's motion.
Other energy in the oscillator is the inertia of the reciprocating mass of the piston assembly and the air compressed by the action of the spring piston. This compression creates "considerable heat" as described in the oscillator patent. This will be used as the heat source of a separate Stirling engine or other type of heat engine.
A small portion of the liquid air will be lost over time due to imperfect insulation and containment. By making every effort to provide insulation as perfect as possible the loss can be kept small and should be able to be replaced with a small expenditure of the developed power by methods already known.
That's the bulk of it. All that remain are the mechanical details.
Cadman
Hello All.
Well thanks to Chet I have a copy. It wasn't available to download here in the UK.
I can now study.
Cheers Graham.
Stefan did have a file sharing spot here [not sure where]
but he is updating things here now [pressing all the really big buttons]
??
will see if the pertinent pages can be snipped out and put in some file here?
or maybe some member with better Putor skills can post a link which can be open sourced globally ?
respectfully
Chet
ps since we have turned the page I repost the link and more comments from Cadman
here
the link again
https://books.google.com/books/about/Compressed_Air_Magazine.html?id=HjY0AQAAMAAJ
--------------------------------------------------------
Cadman
quote
It's page 2229. That's the page number on the document, it's about page 530 in the pdf.
----
OK, breath taken. All is calm now so let's continue.
Earlier I referred to the Compressed Air article as background information to any who are unfamiliar with how J. F. Place produced liquid air by expanding pressurized air while the air performed work.
As an aside, even though the term 'liquid air' is used here, the term applies equally well to liquid nitrogen or other mediums.
To explain the working premise of my invention let's start with water and speak in somewhat general terms. 100 C is the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure, the temperature where water becomes a gas (steam). Water at one atmosphere can not reach a temperature of 101 C because at that temperature it is no longer water, it is steam. At less than 100 C it is water.
Likewise, liquid air will transition between a gas and a liquid with a temperature variation of a few degrees above or below it's liquefaction temperature. With this small temperature change the volume will vary greatly.
It takes considerable energy to lower the temperature of the air hundreds of degrees in order to liquify it in large quantity and that energy has to be spent up front. No way around it. Fortunately, liquified gas is available for purchase in industrial quantities. What I have devised is a system to maintain that low temperature within a narrow range while still obtaining substantial work. Work performed both directly and indirectly. Directly by allowing a small portion of the liquid air to revert to a gas by absorbing a few degrees of heat just prior to entering the oscillator and using that gas in the expansion cylinder to maintain the motion of the pistons. Remember the Tesla oscillator functions as a pendulum so the work needed is just enough to prevent the decay of it's oscillations. The expansion of the gas while working the piston will lower it's temperature more than enough to return it to a liquid. Thus the oscillator can use heat from the environment to maintain it's motion.
Other energy in the oscillator is the inertia of the reciprocating mass of the piston assembly and the air compressed by the action of the spring piston. This compression creates "considerable heat" as described in the oscillator patent. This will be used as the heat source of a separate Stirling engine or other type of heat engine.
A small portion of the liquid air will be lost over time due to imperfect insulation and containment. By making every effort to provide insulation as perfect as possible the loss can be kept small and should be able to be replaced with a small expenditure of the developed power by methods already known.
That's the bulk of it. All that remain are the mechanical details.
Cadman
Here are the pages containing the article of interest.
Doing more research I found several threads about the self acting heat engine but nobody has taken the route I posted about. They all get side tracked onto Neal air engines, home made Sterlings, turbines and converting gas engines.
Does anyone know if the route I am on has been tried before?