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Please, can someone with the knowledge draw-up a simple example circuit that will, "stop the flow of electrons BEFORE reaching the end of the wire?"

This concept is puzzling me.  I would like to build a simple test circuit to see this effect.  How can I test this effect to be sure that it is not something else?

How can I modify the circuit to stop the flow AFTER it reaches the end of the wire?

How can I see both of these effects, (not simultaneously,) stopping flow BEFORE and stopping it AFTER it has reached the end of the wire?

What should my scope look like with each of these circuits and what will be the differences?

I assume, for this simple set-up, that I will need a long(ish) wire; will 50 feet solid 22 AWG work?

I assume that I will need a capacitor; what size minimum to see this effect?

What type of minimum power supply will I need; can I do this with a small battery, say 9V?

What device can make a very short impulse, if a very short impulse is what is meant by before reaching the end of the wire, a MOSFET, a spark-gap, what?

Is it just a simple matter of calculating the pulse-on time vs. the time it takes current to reach the end of the wire; i.e. if the pulse-on time is shorter than the time it takes, what light conservatively, to reach the end of the wire then the object is accomplished?

What happens when we "play" with this pulse-on time, slowly increasing it to match the length of the wire?

How much more complex would this test circuit need to be in order to fine tune the pulse-on time?

SIDEBAR: I have several working vintage computers in my garage.  Perhaps I could use one of these for parts or jam a tiny-Linux system on one and use a printer cable to export pulses?  But this sounds like a software and hardware hassle, if it would work at all.  I will wait until I see the complexity of the test circuit that I request.

Ask Tesla he knows.
Magnetic quenched Spakgaps create a unidirectional disruptive stopped dc pulse. Altough I don't know if anyone ever build one in the f.e. research area.

Quote from: Nali2001 on January 22, 2007, 11:02:59 AM
Magnetic quenched Spakgaps...

Do you have any more information about this concept?
I searched and found squat.  Is this one of Tesla's foreign patents?


Light takes about a nanosecond to traverse one foot of wire.  So, if I have a 20 foot length of wire then I will need a pulse-width shorter than 20 nanoseconds to, "stop the flow before it reaches the end of the wire?"

The smallest time scale on my scope is 50 nanoseconds per division.  So, I should be able to eyeball less than 2/5 of a division between the start and stop of a pulse,... right?

Quote from: Spherenot on January 22, 2007, 04:55:59 PM

Quote from: Nali2001 on January 22, 2007, 11:02:59 AM
Magnetic quenched Spakgaps...

Do you have any more information about this concept?
I searched and found squat.  Is this one of Tesla's foreign patents?


Light takes about a nanosecond to traverse one foot of wire.  So, if I have a 20 foot length of wire then I will need a pulse-width shorter than 20 nanoseconds to, "stop the flow before it reaches the end of the wire?"

The smallest time scale on my scope is 50 nanoseconds per division.  So, I should be able to eyeball less than 2/5 of a division between the start and stop of a pulse,... right?

It is in the Telsa paperwork. Smack the copper faster than it can conduct and the force splatters out sideways! You want that.
It must be double speak time: To stop the current before it reaches the end of wire also means that you can fire the current so that it radiates outward because the CU conduction rate doesn't start that fast. You really don't care if the wire conducts or not(the way we have been taught). The electrons lined up are the magnetic field. The electrons lining up is the radiant energy from that stress.
http://educate-yourself.org/fe/radiantenergystory.shtml (http://educate-yourself.org/fe/radiantenergystory.shtml) Read it and your thinking will change.
Do you need a slapping too?

Here. I be nice guy:
Tesla realized almost immediately that electrons were not responsible for such a phenomena because The blue spike phenomena ceased as soon as the current stated flowing in the lines. Something else was happening just before the electrons had a chance to move along the wire. At the time, no one seemed to be very interested in discovering why these dramatic elevations in static electrical potential were taking place, but rather, engineering design efforts were focused on eliminating and quenching this strange anomaly which was considered by everyone to be a nuisance-except Tesla. Tesla viewed it as a powerful, yet unknown form of energy which needed to be understood and harnessed if possible. The phenomena only exhibited itself in the first moment of switch closure, before the electrons could begin moving. There seemed to be a ?bunching? or  ?choking? effect at play, but only briefly. Once the electrons began their movement within the wire, all would return to normal. What was this strange energy that was trying to liberate itself so forcefully at the moment of switch closure? .

Kicks are easy. Now how do we grab them?
Am I as alone as Tesla on this?

--giantkiller. There are always those that stop things.

And in case you don't understand mariner physics:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg22314.html#msg22314 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg22314.html#msg22314)
Page 8! kicks ass! and what ever else touches it.
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3070070&bhcd2=1169512954

Here is the info that needs to be understood
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13476/13476-h/13476-h.htm

downloadable zip file:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13476/13476-h.zip

static electrical potential

it all starts here

Thanks for all the the links.

I might try making this circuit I found at: http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm (http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm)

QuoteD-FLIP/FLOP ONE SHOT CIRCUITS
Yes you can use cheap D flip/flop logic circuits as nice one-shot pulse generators. This schematic shows how the popular CD4013 and the CD74HC74 can be used to generate pulses ranging from nanoseconds to seconds.

The question is, how few nanoseconds?

Quote from: Spherenot on January 22, 2007, 11:10:53 PM
Thanks for all the the links.

I might try making this circuit I found at: http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm (http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm)

QuoteD-FLIP/FLOP ONE SHOT CIRCUITS
Yes you can use cheap D flip/flop logic circuits as nice one-shot pulse generators. This schematic shows how the popular CD4013 and the CD74HC74 can be used to generate pulses ranging from nanoseconds to seconds.

The question is, how few nanoseconds?

Make it adjustable and stick it in.

repost boo boo.

Quote from: Spherenot on January 22, 2007, 11:10:53 PM
Thanks for all the the links.

I might try making this circuit I found at: http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm (http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/oneshots.htm)

QuoteD-FLIP/FLOP ONE SHOT CIRCUITS
Yes you can use cheap D flip/flop logic circuits as nice one-shot pulse generators. This schematic shows how the popular CD4013 and the CD74HC74 can be used to generate pulses ranging from nanoseconds to seconds.

The question is, how few nanoseconds?

Someone please help me with this circuit.

The designer of this circuit claims that it will do nanosecond scale.  I built it.  It works.  But I am having trouble shrinking the pulse-on time down to my 20 nanosecond goal.  (I may even settle for 200 nanoseconds.)

I have a good assortment of resistors.  I have a more limited supply of caps, and maybe I am using the wrong kind, (reversible vs. polarized.)  I can always buy more parts.

What specific parts shall I seek to make my goal frequency and where shall I place them? ???  ...don't say it. :D

@Spherenot,

The RC network determines the time constant t=R*C, the circuit values posted provide a 10Hz pulse or .1mSec on time.

t = Time

R = Resitance in Ohms

C = Capacitance in Farads

Try a smaller value Cap and a smaller value resistor

Actually you would be better off using a 555 timer circuit in an astable mode.

Try this site

http://www.williamson-labs.com/555-circuits.htm

Quote from: starcruiser on January 26, 2007, 09:19:20 PM

Try a smaller value Cap and a smaller value resistor

Actually you would be better off using a 555 timer circuit in an astable mode.

Try this site

http://www.williamson-labs.com/555-circuits.htm

Radio Shack did not have a 4013 chip the other day.  So, I picked-up a 555 while I was there.  I got it to work and played with square wave sizes using various R & C sizes.

The next day I made a mad lunchtime dash to the other local(ish) electronics store with 9-5, M-F only, hours and got my two NTE4013B chips to pursue this circuit.  When I used smaller C and R, on the pulse out side of the circuit, my nice vertical square wave turned into curly mess.  So then I started playing with the R's and C on the switch side.  I went to bed as dumb as the post I was when I woke up that morning.

Thanks for the link.  I will check it out.

Quote from: Spherenot on January 26, 2007, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: starcruiser on January 26, 2007, 09:19:20 PM

Try a smaller value Cap and a smaller value resistor

Actually you would be better off using a 555 timer circuit in an astable mode.

Try this site

http://www.williamson-labs.com/555-circuits.htm

Radio Shack did not have a 4013 chip the other day.  So, I picked-up a 555 while I was there.  I got it to work and played with square wave sizes using various R & C sizes.

The next day I made a mad lunchtime dash to the other local(ish) electronics store with 9-5, M-F only, hours and got my two NTE4013B chips to pursue this circuit.  When I used smaller C and R, on the pulse out side of the circuit, my nice vertical square wave turned into curly mess.  So then I started playing with the R's and C on the switch side.  I went to bed as dumb as the post I was when I woke up that morning.

Thanks for the link.  I will check it out.

Spherenot,
One thing you will have to do is pay attention to the current ratings, source and sink, of the flip flop when you "play" with your R values. The adjustment for the pulse duration is the RC network on the output. The Frequency is directly related to how fast you close that pushbutton and the logic component, i.e. the 4013 in this case. While this circuit is certainly useful in the lab, you'll probably get tired of having to push the button.  Take your R value down and C value down on the output end to shorten the pulse duration. Frequency is another story. An oscillator of some sort will be necessary for frequency adjustments.

Regards

JT

My goal is a 20 nanosecond pulse.  The spec-sheet that came with my 555 indicates:

QuoteMaximum frequency in astable mode: 2.1 MHz

If my calculations are correct, this is 476 nanoseconds per cycle.  I already know about putting the diode across pins 6 & 7 to get < 50% duty cycle, but I am not sure if I can squeeze a 4.2% duty from the edge of the 555 specification envelope.

I was hoping that I could do this with simple solid state circuitry.  Will I need something exotic and expensive to achieve a 20 nanosecond pulse?

I don't know about stopping the current before the wire ends, but I think I am going to stop this test before it ends.  WTF am I going to do when I get my 20 nanosecond pulse anyway?  It's like giving a hooker to a seven year old.  :(

Simple.

Quote from: Spherenot on January 27, 2007, 07:15:54 PM
My goal is a 20 nanosecond pulse.  The spec-sheet that came with my 555 indicates:

QuoteMaximum frequency in astable mode: 2.1 MHz

If my calculations are correct, this is 476 nanoseconds per cycle.  I already know about putting the diode across pins 6 & 7 to get < 50% duty cycle, but I am not sure if I can squeeze a 4.2% duty from the edge of the 555 specification envelope.

I was hoping that I could do this with simple solid state circuitry.  Will I need something exotic and expensive to achieve a 20 nanosecond pulse?

I don't know about stopping the current before the wire ends, but I think I am going to stop this test before it ends.  WTF am I going to do when I get my 20 nanosecond pulse anyway?  It's like giving a hooker to a seven year old.  :(

You have all the speed you need in the leading edge. That is faster than the CU can react. After that its all easyflow.

--giantkiller. ;)

Quote from: Spherenot on January 27, 2007, 07:15:54 PM
My goal is a 20 nanosecond pulse.  The spec-sheet that came with my 555 indicates:

QuoteMaximum frequency in astable mode: 2.1 MHz

If my calculations are correct, this is 476 nanoseconds per cycle.  I already know about putting the diode across pins 6 & 7 to get < 50% duty cycle, but I am not sure if I can squeeze a 4.2% duty from the edge of the 555 specification envelope.

I was hoping that I could do this with simple solid state circuitry.  Will I need something exotic and expensive to achieve a 20 nanosecond pulse?

I don't know about stopping the current before the wire ends, but I think I am going to stop this test before it ends.  WTF am I going to do when I get my 20 nanosecond pulse anyway?  It's like giving a hooker to a seven year old.  :(

Hi,

See my post #1152 in "user Turbo's replication of SM TPU",
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1761.msg21223.html#msg21223
on the CMOS version of the 555, the LMC555 or TLC555 (but not the MC1555), that run up to 3MHz in astable mode and the rise and fall time is 15nsec.  Also included in that post a link to an EDN design idea for a pulse generator with independently variable duty cycle and frequency adjustment possibility.
If you want around 20-25nsec rise and fall time you have to use MOSFET driver integrated circuit because the LMC555 is not able to drive as fast as that when the capacitive load at its output is in the nanoFarad range from the gate of any powerFET you may wish to use for switching. Here is a beefy driver (there are faster of course):
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/21419c.pdf

regards
Gyula

Quote
http://www.josephnewman.com/JN_Theory_by_Hastings.html (http://www.josephnewman.com/JN_Theory_by_Hastings.html)

As a thought experiment, suppose one made a coil consisting of 186,000 miles of wire. An electrical field would require one second to travel the length of the wire, or in Newman's language, it would take one second for gyroscopic massergies inserted at one end of the wire to reach the other end. Now suppose that the polarity of the applied voltage was switched before the one second has elapsed, and that polarity switching was repeated with a period less than one second.

Now where have I heard this before?

Joseph made a coil with 55 miles of wire.  Who needs nano-pulses when you have a wire this long?

Quote from: gyulasun on January 28, 2007, 06:40:14 PM
Hi,
See my post #1152 in "user Turbo's replication of SM TPU",
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1761.msg21223.html#msg21223
on the CMOS version of the 555, the LMC555 or TLC555 (but not the MC1555), that run up to 3MHz in astable mode and the rise and fall time is 15nsec.  Also included in that post a link to an EDN design idea for a pulse generator with independently variable duty cycle and frequency adjustment possibility.

Thank you.  The link you posted there looks promising...

QuoteBut if an output duty cycle different than 50:50 is needed, application of this simple circuit gets complicated. That?s because the usual ways in which the basic RC multivibrator is modified for asymmetrical output timing either allow annoying interaction between output duty cycle and period or degrade the tempco and the PSRR.

I believe that I was running into this problem.

Quote from: giantkiller on January 28, 2007, 11:52:45 AM
You have all the speed you need in the leading edge. That is faster than the CU can react. After that its all easyflow.

I recall reading somewhere here that the trailing edge was all mighty.  That was the big thing that we needed to have happen before the leading edge hit the wire end, no?

Wasn't the trailing edge of the ship supposed to catch-up to the dolphins so the propeller could radiate their meaty energy in a plane axially orientated to the direction of travel, or something?  :D

You might be right.  I recall Tesla stating first noticing radiant energy when hight current lines were first switched on.  Dolphin safe tuning.   :-[

And you in all your pride would dare go against the magnetic almighty?

Foolish winder! May your pulses never saturate, may your winding never maturate, may your thinking never placate! Kicks are for geeks! Radiant rules!

--giantkiller. Hence the name. 3 days left. Do you know where your TPU is at? Git'r done!

Quote from: Spherenot on January 28, 2007, 08:15:13 PM

Quote from: gyulasun on January 28, 2007, 06:40:14 PM
Hi,
See my post #1152 in "user Turbo's replication of SM TPU",
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1761.msg21223.html#msg21223
on the CMOS version of the 555, the LMC555 or TLC555 (but not the MC1555), that run up to 3MHz in astable mode and the rise and fall time is 15nsec.  Also included in that post a link to an EDN design idea for a pulse generator with independently variable duty cycle and frequency adjustment possibility.

Thank you.  The link you posted there looks promising...

Help!  I built that circuit.

When I pull out the capacitor, (the lower one from diodes to ground,) I get a similar sized waveform reading on my scope as I would with a smaller, 22 pF cap.

I am thinking that the metal terminal rows under the plastic holes of my PROAM tester board have a kind of capacitance, limiting the smaller size pulses that I desire from my circuit. Am I right about this?  ???

Quote from: Spherenot on January 31, 2007, 10:51:14 PM

Quote from: Spherenot on January 28, 2007, 08:15:13 PM

Quote from: gyulasun on January 28, 2007, 06:40:14 PM
Hi,
See my post #1152 in "user Turbo's replication of SM TPU",
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1761.msg21223.html#msg21223
on the CMOS version of the 555, the LMC555 or TLC555 (but not the MC1555), that run up to 3MHz in astable mode and the rise and fall time is 15nsec.  Also included in that post a link to an EDN design idea for a pulse generator with independently variable duty cycle and frequency adjustment possibility.

Thank you.  The link you posted there looks promising...

Help!  I built that circuit.

When I pull out the capacitor, (the lower one from diodes to ground,) I get a similar sized waveform reading on my scope as I would with a smaller, 22 pF cap.

I am thinking that the metal terminal rows under the plastic holes of my PROAM tester board have a kind of capacitance, limiting the smaller size pulses that I desire from my circuit. Am I right about this?  ???

Your proto can also gain oxidation on the contacts if the board has been sitting around unused for a spell or with parts left in it. I ran across this in the past myself with opamp circuits. You pull each part out & in but that is no guarantee.

I used to like to keep my circuits in prots as history and that doesn't work.

--giantkiller.

Quote from: Spherenot on January 31, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
......
Help!  I built that circuit.

When I pull out the capacitor, (the lower one from diodes to ground,) I get a similar sized waveform reading on my scope as I would with a smaller, 22 pF cap.

I am thinking that the metal terminal rows under the plastic holes of my PROAM tester board have a kind of capacitance, limiting the smaller size pulses that I desire from my circuit. Am I right about this?  ???

Hi,

I second GK's opinion on boards/testers like you have, these boards inherently have distributed / structural capacitances.  The best would be to lift up the common endings of diodes D3 and D4  into the air and connect to them one leg of your small pF value capacitor and the other end of this cap will go to negative gnd, right?
By the way, you need really high frequencies like you would get by using 22pF? Maybe the R3 frequency control could also be lowered to 4.7-10 KOhm to boost frequency?

rgds
Gyula