Found this on my travels. Might be worth a look.
Would you mind sharing the link of this original post?
Yesterday while browsing motor generator youtube videos and reading lots of comments i found this. atached pdf document. this is basicaly motor transformer generator in one and it claims 3x or 4x power amplification on the output and i think this is very similar what tomd posted.
Quote from: floodrod on September 15, 2022, 10:33:37 PM
Would you mind sharing the link of this original post?
Certainly. But I don't think you'll get much more from it.
According to the post the schematics are from somebody called Mike Hunt.
https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message5225787/pg1
Quote from: tomd on September 16, 2022, 01:28:31 AM
Certainly. But I don't think you'll get much more from it.
According to the post the schematics are from somebody called Mike Hunt.
https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message5225787/pg1
Thanks, yes you're right.. Not much help... But I am interested in this... But I'd rather use a magnet rotor than a synchronous style.
I'm trying to understand it, as I am not too educated on electrical schematics. But I think it's saying if you make 2 of these special coils, you can stack them like a transformer.
Then pulse into the primary and collect from the secondary. Then a magnet rotor is placed in direction of the secondary, and the flux from the secondary will cause the rotor to
rotate while adding to the power instead of fighting it.
Like a 1:1 transformer where you collect full output, but then a rotor is inducing extra in the correct directing adding to it.
Maybe I am totally wrong.. And I could certainly benefit from any additional information regarding this schematic. I hope others chime in to explain more.
So I wound 2 pancake coil layers like the diagram shows with some scrap coaxial cable. Threw on my signal generator and scope to take a peek at what's happening in it..
And yep, it's worth experimenting with.. Something I am finding interesting... Depending which way you hook the 2 center bifilers together, you can get the sinewave to do a
complete reversal and start to self-induct at Non-resonant frequencies...
It's pretty much the same thing I see when I bring coils to resonance.. When you hook a load or short the secondary, the input raises..
Any other transformer takes voltage away from the primary when you pull a load.. (except when it's at resonance)..
The good part is it can be done on standard motor operating frequencies, so it opens doors because it's not in the radio frequencies..
The bad part is the voltage is absurdly low..
I can't make any predictions yet, and I don't know what it all means yet- but I will be checking into this a bit further..
See the scope and hookup tests here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj0UUSLB59E
Today I got a Weird Effect while toying with a quad bucking pancake
IT SEEMS:
Weird bucking quad pancake as a prime mover in series with another coil causes things I have never seen.
Rotor speeds up as amperage drops drastically.. Back EMF is so strong that once it hits a certain RPM - the input current goes so low that the rotor slows.
When RPM slows to a certain level, driver coil voltage spikes up 2+ TIMES the power supply voltage and speeds the rotor. Input amperage amps come right back down as back EMF builds and the cycle repeats.
Wave form and phase totally changes between speedup and slowdown cycles.
Connecting a resistor load in various places kills the effect. I will be playing with this more.
See the anomalies- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DoiQ1gcbMs
Here are still shots of the wave / phase change between Slow-Down and Speed-Up Cycles.
It speeds the rotor until the input current is so low the rotor slows itself. Then it raises current to speed itself back up while the coil voltage is over 2X the input voltage. As is speeds up, the current drops until the current is so low it slows again.
Repeats..
(Note- Yellow is just an open coil to have a reference. Blue is the driver
I know Mike Hunt, from personal childhood experiences
He's in the 99th percentile.
Despite the public reactions to (what science may consider) his autism,
The intellectual capabilities of this individual are superior to that of most humans.
@floodrod
Take a DC motor
And attach a magnet to its shaft
so the pole-to-pole is perpendicular to the axis of rotation.
Using an asymmetrical field, indivisible by the proportional diameters of both fields:
(That of the magnet, and that of the internal motor magnets)
The rpm can never match, or be synchronized.
The second wave is always out of phase and shifting in time.
Causing a cycle of attraction and repulsion, speeding up and slowing down.
Like a pendulum which is heavier on one side of it's swing for a while, then flips around to the other side.
If you tried to adjust the phase, after a few cycles they would drift out of phase again.
The back emf is converting itself into forward momentum, then into braking momentum during the other phase of the process.
On some level these forces equal out, like an imbalanced flywheel
But the phase shifts can oscillate for a long time, as a derivation of capacitance
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 01, 2022, 05:36:32 PM
@floodrod
The back emf is converting itself into forward momentum, then into braking momentum during the other phase of the process.
Perhaps... But not quite sure if this bucking rig is the same effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwDh0oAybQ4
Vid #2- Stills freezing the scope frames https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5KDY8-5r0M
If you set aside the frequency multiplier effect,
You can see the asymmetry in the wave front
compared to the back side of the wave,
hard to say for sure without my hands on it,
But it looks like a 2-step cycle.
Two pulses bucking against the one thats driving it
This becomes complex, because the two are not perfectly divisible
The 'speeding up' is the two trying to synchronize
Is there a way to match the proportions?
Either with the frequency of the driving wave
Or maybe the arc-radius to number of interacting fields
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 03, 2022, 07:24:29 PM
If you set aside the frequency multiplier effect,
You can see the asymmetry in the wave front
compared to the back side of the wave,
Regarding this
"frequency multiplying effect"- could that be the explanation why I see more voltage in the circuit than what I am supplying it with?
For instance, I supply 6V at 02 A. (1.2 watts).. But when I probe the circuit with the scope and/or multimeter I measure 9V at 0.2A. Some configurations even more.
I been trying to find a way to extract some of the assumed increase, but so far anything else I add to the circuit alters the effect.
I clipped some screenshots to show what I was referring to earlier.
When I have it hooked up so it self regulates on a speed-up / slow-down cycle, on speedup I have more than 2.5 times the voltage in the driving circuit than the input voltage.
I will attempt to measure amperage at the same time I get the voltage increase.
This driver is all 1 connected circuit. If Kirchhoff's current law holds true- "The algebraic sum of all currents entering and exiting a node must equal zero" -- then I should have the same amperage in the driver circuit as the input.
I recorded a video showing:
- About 5 watts powering the motor driving circuit
- And about 40+ watts circulating inside the motor driving circuit
Showing current and voltage readings from the input battery, and current and voltage in the drive circuit.
----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9xazAYjH_0
Still looking for ideas how to extract power
Thats interesting. How many meters do you have? I imagine you would see an increase current draw on the battery when slowing the rotor due to the longer on period. I wound my coils a while ago but have not had a chance to do anything with them. Have you posted the circuit you are using? I can throw a pulse motor together pretty quickly so I'd like to see if I can replicate what you are seeing. Thanks for sharing
Quote from: Jimboot on December 06, 2022, 01:42:26 AM
Thats interesting. How many meters do you have? I imagine you would see an increase current draw on the battery when slowing the rotor due to the longer on period. I wound my coils a while ago but have not had a chance to do anything with them. Have you posted the circuit you are using? I can throw a pulse motor together pretty quickly so I'd like to see if I can replicate what you are seeing. Thanks for sharing
YES.. Increase on current draw and increase in both current and voltage inside the circuit when slowing the rotor.
I have a few other meters, but I don't trust those $4 harbor freight ones much. But I do have some analog current meters I can put inline.
The rotor and motor is not even needed.. All the rotor is doing is timing the polarity flip. It works the exact same just skipping the rotor and flipping polarities on the quad pancake between 20-60 Hz. I haven't experimented much without the rotor yet, but within that frequency range is where I am seeing comparable gain results. The gain seems to peak at about 25 Hz for me.
I am using E core electromagnets clamped together. I am not sure at the moment if the first e-core pair is repelling or attracting each other. And I am not sure if the last set of electromagnets is even needed. But since it was working good like that, I haven't touched it.
(note- image is showing a regular tesla pancake, but I am using that crazy wound one that is not standard)
The person who originally posted this schematic has shared an updated version that apparently increases output much more..
3-Phase-Overexcited-Synchronous-Self-excited-Amplifier-Equivalent-Circuit