Hi,
I came across this device (was posted many years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bJZZbEN8vg&ab_channel=PMMG4HYBRID (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bJZZbEN8vg&ab_channel=PMMG4HYBRID)[/size]
Many details are missing but her was trying to replicate the (Oxford Bell) which ran for over 170years non-stop over a mysterious composition battery.
Starting at 4min in the video, this guy is showing us that he was able to light up a LED for 2.5 years and more using only graphite blocks of 2inch x 2inch x 0.5inch in pair sandwith with Neodyium magnets in series.
He observed that this setup allows the environmental humidity is moistening the graphite blocks which in turn keep the "undisclosed electrolyte" moist during sunlight exposure thus allowing the electrolyte to never dry up and keep the reaction going on for years on....
Update Note: I tried a scott towel with concentrated soaked citrus juice, I measured 0.4v 2 uA = 6mW directly on the paper towel....but when putting the towel in between the magnets and graphite I got like 0.17v total (105uA) = , my setup is very small ...looks viable to test larger scale.
I tried myself using carbon graphite motor rods with neodymium magnets, no electrolyte, I get 0.0000mv (nothing).... from the video the electrolyte barrier is not really visible but hes talking about a PASTE of somekind.
I don't know what electrolyte I should put in there, any idears what would work best to recreate this effect?
you need to check your math.0.4v 2 uA = 6mW should be .8 micro wattsalso the power to light a led is not standardized, so pretty much meaningless.as to what you can use for electrolyte, anything that will makea reactive solution. battery cells usually have something nasty in them.salt might work and it attracts moisture.just out of my own curiosity how long do you think a AAA duracell wouldput out 2 micro amps?
The goal is to replicate the video setup on youtube, that is getting a led voltage with enough current to run 2.5 years+.
An AAA battery will run down after 3/4 days powering a led.
For the math thing, I put the worse value as the voltage came down a bit, yes your right my equation does not add (my bad) a I forget to update the number before entering the final power.
I think of the key is that the Oxford Bell and the Magnet setup , but have enclosures to stop water evaporation.
So when comparing a AAA battery capacity to something 1/20 its volume size, of course this will not yield the same power output.
But I get your point as AAA battery can generate a long time a small current.
I want to be able to prove that the power does not drop overtime with a small setup to prouve the video concept.
I checked the next morning and the voltage was again back to 0 as the wet paper dried.
I dipped my setup in water and Im getting 0.6v 400uA, until it dries up again..
I will try using salt/water for next test but I think this will still dry up as well as water will evaporate faster than what salt can absorb. Using a kind of electrolyte paste may have better moisture retention in my opinion.
Probably also thinking of parting some electrolyte capacitors and recover the electrolyte membrane.
Open to all Suggestions.
I'm trying to understand how you measure any voltage at all. At first glance it looks like a typical metal air battery setup. The metal coating on the magnet might be your negative electrode. And the surrounding air would be your positive. If this is the case then your both leads of your meter are connected to the positive electrodes. I wouldn't expect any potential difference if that is the case. Probably something simple that I'm not understanding here. To do battery experiments you need to have a good understanding of chemistry. And that's something I don't have.
Out of curiosity did you measure voltage between center magnet and the graphite.
When measuring just on paper tower, I get around 6-8mW ~0.4v 2uA[size=78%] [/size]
I will make a video so that you will see better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-CH01oRtNY&ab_channel=DigitalInspiration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-CH01oRtNY&ab_channel=DigitalInspiration)
So basically no matter where i probe, I get 0.4V.
You could get more by rectifying radio noise.
especially if you are near a broadcasting station. :D
I can get over 1 volt with paper towel, carbon, and either Aluminium or gal steel no electrolyte but needs humidity. can run a calculator with 2 of them. needs 3 or 4 though to get an led to glow. Lower voltages on copper and SS . https://youtu.be/jBQg4GA8014 (https://youtu.be/jBQg4GA8014)
When I was experimenting with aluminum air batteries I found that graphite felt worked well. But I had better results if I treated it first. I tried different things but boiling it in muriatic acid first and then rinsing and drying seemed to work the best. I'm not sure why it helped but I suspect there was a coating from the manufacturing process that got stripped away.
Nigel Cooper demonstrated that 2 diodes in parallel, with one in reverse direction
can draw stray currents through any large conductor, lighting the diodes indefinitely.
No electrolytes, no chemical reactions.
But back to the topic: The Oxford Bell (and similar devices)
See this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile)
Quote from: kajunbee on November 12, 2022, 06:35:07 AM
When I was experimenting with aluminum air batteries I found that graphite felt worked well. But I had better results if I treated it first. I tried different things but boiling it in muriatic acid first and then rinsing and drying seemed to work the best. I'm not sure why it helped but I suspect there was a coating from the manufacturing process that got stripped away.
Thanks, I will try that. so the paper towel just uses your local humidity?
Quote from: sm0ky2 on November 13, 2022, 07:44:20 AM
Nigel Cooper demonstrated that 2 diodes in parallel, with one in reverse direction
can draw stray currents through any large conductor, lighting the diodes indefinitely.
No electrolytes, no chemical reactions.
But back to the topic: The Oxford Bell (and similar devices)
See this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile)
When talking about diodes, I suppose they are Germanium type diodes who gain energy from their local radiation which may not always work in no radiation zones (radiation is another principle).
Quote from: Jimboot on November 10, 2022, 05:48:18 PM
I can get over 1 volt with paper towel, carbon, and either Aluminium or gal steel no electrolyte but needs humidity. can run a calculator with 2 of them. needs 3 or 4 though to get an led to glow. Lower voltages on copper and SS . https://youtu.be/jBQg4GA8014 (https://youtu.be/jBQg4GA8014)
nice, what is the humidity in your case, is it only environmental humid. or you put a little water in the towels?
Quote from: clearchrome on November 14, 2022, 01:52:44 PM
nice, what is the humidity in your case, is it only environmental humid. or you put a little water in the towels?
the coffee filters work best with environmental humidity. To the touch the moisture is not detectable. I have also used distilled water on the paper towels . With only a single metal and no acid or electrolyte I'm not sure of what the reaction is. To get a reading with ss and distilled water surprised me.
Quote from: Jimboot on November 14, 2022, 02:44:42 PM
the coffee filters work best with environmental humidity. To the touch the moisture is not detectable. I have also used distilled water on the paper towels . With only a single metal and no acid or electrolyte I'm not sure of what the reaction is. To get a reading with ss and distilled water surprised me.
At 50% humidity last night the effect is negligible.
Quote from: clearchrome on November 14, 2022, 01:45:47 PM
Thanks, I will try that. so the paper towel just uses your local humidity?
Never tried it with humidity only. The problem with aluminum is the oxide layer that forms which in turn kills the battery efficiency.
Quote from: kajunbee on November 20, 2022, 10:55:05 AM
Never tried it with humidity only. The problem with aluminum is the oxide layer that forms which in turn kills the battery efficiency.
With the gal steel I'm using it needs about 4 cells or over 5 v to shine an LED. So very little current. Curiously though it works with aged gal steel as well. I thought it was some oxidative process going on but my 4 yo shed pylons give the same reading. I'm less than 1KM from the sea though so maybe the salt air is having an impact.
QuoteThe problem with aluminum is the oxide layer that forms which in turn kills the battery efficiency.
What is needed is to add gallium to aluminum so that it won't oxidize. Doing this is proven technology:
Here is a reference to an article that describes it:
https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-gallium-hydrogen-powder/ (https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-gallium-hydrogen-powder/)
Quote from: clearchrome on November 14, 2022, 01:50:48 PM
When talking about diodes, I suppose they are Germanium type diodes who gain energy from their local radiation which may not always work in no radiation zones (radiation is another principle).
No these are the current standard low-power superbrights
i was able to get 1000 for under $10 (US) on Amazon
They appear to be very close (mathematically) to an ideal semiconductor
Zamboni was using zinc and silver
With magnesium dioxide as a non-aqueous electrolyte.
The bell itself draws very little power,
Making use of very short lived current spikes on the contact switch.
I imagine a capacitor of any substantial magnitude
could ring such a bell for several days if properly constructed.
Quote from: truesearch on November 21, 2022, 08:13:35 AM
What is needed is to add gallium to aluminum so that it won't oxidize. Doing this is proven technology:
Here is a reference to an article that describes it:
https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-gallium-hydrogen-powder/ (https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-gallium-hydrogen-powder/)
I never experimented with gallium but had considered it for the reason you stated. Thanks for the link.