Link to TV station website with video:
https://deggendorf.niederbayerntv.de/mediathek/video/wasserrad-fuer-die-garage-wie-eine-erfindung-aus-wallersdorf-die-welt-veraendern-soll/ (https://deggendorf.niederbayerntv.de/mediathek/video/wasserrad-fuer-die-garage-wie-eine-erfindung-aus-wallersdorf-die-welt-veraendern-soll/)
Very short synopisis of presentation for non German speakers:
Former ship captain came to his passion for pumps when his ship needed a pump and there was no way to source one in time. He put something together with parts available to him.
Supposedly has customers lined up in Scandinavia.
Delivery time 4 months.
The wheel drives an electric motor which runs the pump.
It takes a manual start and from then the wheel just runs.
He's been working at this for 30 years, the other gentleman has been helping out for the last 2.
(Patent from 2012 attached)
Basic Google translation from German document:
(54) Designation: Rotary vane pump (57)
Summary: The invention relates to rotary vane pump (6), which comprises a housing (1) with a rotary vane rotor (3, 12) mounted on both sides in the housing (1), in which radially to a rotary axis movable lamellas (10) in the rotary vane rotor (3, 12) are arranged, which are arranged between an inlet (7) and an outlet ( 8) and a rotary vane rotor outer wall (9) and a Rotary vane rotor sliding surface (13) of a perimeter wall of the Housing (1) form a pump chamber (11). It is provided that the rotary vane rotor (3, 12) has rotor transport chambers (17; 17A-17H), which form as a pump chamber (11) a rotor and lamellar clearance (2) for transporting a medium.
Description The invention relates to a rotary vane pump having the features mentioned in the generic term. Circulating pumps, including so-called rotary vane pumps or vane pumps are known. Rotary vane pumps have a rotor, the essentially radially movable rotary vane has. The sealing valves are mounted individually and are guided independently of each other in the rotor. The sealing vanes (fins) are either supported by centrifugal forces or springs, here in this case by rings, where through them on a perimeter wall of a pump housing by Forced control can be pressed and thus be able to absorb vacuum. The pressure and volume flow is caused by the fact that the lamellae form closed chambers and thus transport the entire liquid volume with pressure increase from the inlet to the outlet.
For rotary vane pumps, the forces transmitting the rotary vane to the rotary vane rotor and thus to the drive shaft is limited by the fact that: the possible force absorption of the drive shaft does not may be exceeded. Lower speeds with At the same time, high conveying capacities and conveying pressures, whereby an energy-saving conveyance of the Rotary vane pump has already been with the patent EP 1279834, patent holder Hermann Lidlgruber. A further difficulty is the identification of problematic substances, in particular media and the contain a lot of mud, sand, stones and coarse rubbish to pump. Biopower plants, waste recycling for Energy generation urgently needs pumps that are able to transport these media.
The Inventor has set himself the task of creating this Problem to solve, which he has succeeded with the design of this invention. This rotary vane pump according to the invention also has the advantage, to bring a further force input, further higher volume and to transport sand, mud, stones and coarse rubbish and even gentler to pump. The invention shows a rotary vane pump whose rotor consists of one piece with the axis of rotation, centering shaft and drive shaft.
The Rotor has milled rotor transport chambers. Through these large rotor transport chambers, a large volume can be transported, even larger impurities, mud, stones, solid media and also vacuum.
By the chambers, which are represented by the Lamellae are closed, the mentioned media can be conveyed in full height in gentle operation from input to output. The transport chambers have yet another advantage: The slats are pressure-relieved. The pump requires much less energy due to the large pump volume.
1) the pump can transport a particularly large volume,
2) it can transport major impurities and solid media,
3) it works very gently,
4) through the transport chambers are the slats pressure-relieves, which makes the pump resistant to repair.
5) the pump requires much less energy than other pumps.
List of reference characters
1 housing
2 rotor and lamellar clearance for material transport
3 rotary vane rotor
4 space for control rings
5 A + B control rings
6 rotary vane pump
7 Inlet/outlet pump turns right and to the left
8 Outlet/Inlet
9 Rotary vane rotor outer wall
10 rotary vane vane valves
11 Pump room
12 rotor consists of one piece (rotor part, Rotary axis, drive shaft and centering shaft
13 Rotary vane rotor sliding surface
14 Rotary vane rotor inner wall shaft
15 Liquid flow
16 d1 diameter
17 milled rotor transport chamber
18 lids
What I can gather from the document:
Vanes close off the chambers that transport contents from inlet to outlet.
Pump housing radius increases, but the self adjusting vanes seal it off anyway.
Due to expanding volume, a vacuum is introduced.
Might the vertical path after the pump be part of the "trick"
Would you leave the setup as described, letting water cavitate and implode on the way up, or introduce atmospheric air while you have the vacume and the pump running well to seal off against reverse flow?
At 17F, the chamber size is minimized, minimum volume of cavitated water and/or vacuum sent from outlet side back to inlet.
At 17C a larger and still expanding scoop of water mixed with a partial exhaust volume is taken in.
At 17A, the volume is at maximum just before the outlet is reached.
I hope I have that the right way up.
It looks honest....
https://www.heligrimo.com/produkte/
It's old hat. Look on you tube there are simpler ones than that pumping gallons far up hills
from ponds and Rivers. Most of them are Asian vids, Perhaps we can learn from our Asian
friends.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on March 31, 2023, 05:40:06 AM
It's old hat. Look on you tube there are simpler ones than that pumping gallons far up hills
from ponds and Rivers. Most of them are Asian vids, Perhaps we can learn from our Asian
friends.
Sil
If the Asians show drawings and parts, they might be as open as these Germans.
Since these guys are putting themselves out there laying parts bare, perhaps they deserve this forum's attention?
Have you specifically seen vacuum to bring OU results?
I have some mega scale water pumping applications in mind for which self running pumps would be half of the solution.
Quote from: stevie1001 on March 31, 2023, 05:06:14 AM
https://www.heligrimo.com/produkte/ (https://www.heligrimo.com/produkte/)
https://www.heligrimo.com/ (https://www.heligrimo.com/)
"The Heligrimo pump is a patented innovation on the pump market, with a very wide range of applications, self-priming, temporary dry running possible without venting, very energy-saving minimal size and environmentally friendly.
The speed of the pump can be controlled as required and is characterized by extremely high flow rates at the lowest speeds.
Do you prefer first-class quality and individual solutions?
Then you are exactly right with us.
Above all, Heligrimo stands for the manufacture of high-quality pumps and excellent service.
Take a look around our website and convince yourself of our unique offer.
We are a "young" start-up company, currently still in inventor status. Our patented high-performance pumps are energy-efficient, indestructible, easy to maintain and are characterized by a high level of efficiency.
We are still looking for investors for series production and expansion of sales."
Quote
Very short synopisis of presentation for non German speakers:
Former ship captain came to his passion for pumps when his ship needed a pump and there was no way to source one in time. He put something together with parts available to him.
Supposedly has customers lined up in Scandinavia.
Delivery time 4 months.
The wheel drives an electric motor which runs the pump.
It takes a manual start and from then the wheel just runs.
He's been working at this for 30 years, the other gentleman has been helping out for the last 2.
End quote
This is remarkable.....how to manifest a gain mechanism which would self run and make more power?
(Victor Schauberger ?)
And we should be able to visit him to purchase?
Going to see if we have anyone close by who could get a demonstration of it working.
Thanks
Chet
Well, I just got an email from a friend, that he himself visited these 2 inventors a few years back..
There the machine did not work yet selfrunning...
Maybe they are still working on it ??
He also doubted that they will get it to selfrun..
I tried to call just now the TV station, but today it was already a bit too late in the day...
Will try again next week.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanks for your efforts, Stefan!
@Anyone: What are the losses usually seen in conventional pumps tasked to overcome vertical distance?
If they are close to unity with a very unrefined water wheel, the pump itself might still be exceedingly efficient.
Say, there may be an anomalous situation with limited back pressure from cavitated water pumped up <2 meters.
Especially with that down pointing final exhaust. Assuming the water has lost most of its cavitation by then, the water coming down over the top is denser than coming up towards the top at the same level.
The idea of introducing at at one or more points after the pump fascinates me, I wonder whether they do that. It's the kind of situation many will encounter but perhaps few will never know, because there would be no visible spillage. Even withy the pump pushing and the water weighing itself down, at the point of the least, the pressure of the water may well be under 1 bar and this suck in air. De-cavitation occurs, but without the associated density increase. You'd be pumping water up higher for the rating of the pump motor, but how will water volume be affected? Does the pump motor feel what happens downstream, through a volume of capitate outflowing water?
I suspect a narrower pipe after the pump will be advantageous to speed up the flow and get the vacume to exist for longer (and higher).
I'm sure some of the brilliant minds on this forum will know ways to rapid prototype such a pump and test it against conventional designs. It's water, everyone has the best fittings on hand! :-D
Free energy water pump plus femail tuition can't be bad!~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZLAlJVS8U
Quote from: AlienGrey on March 31, 2023, 11:00:28 AM
Free energy water pump plus femail tuition can't be bad!~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZLAlJVS8U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZLAlJVS8U)
If you think that video is not fake you are on the wrong forum. You need to find a fantasy forum.
Carroll
Quote from: Cloxxki on March 31, 2023, 06:51:43 AM
If the Asians show drawings and parts, they might be as open as these Germans.
Since these guys are putting themselves out there laying parts bare, perhaps they deserve this forum's attention?
Have you specifically seen vacuum to bring OU results?
I have some mega scale water pumping applications in mind for which self running pumps would be half of the solution.
The vacuum is set up initially (in the asian device), then depletes over time.
Vacuum must be restored. The advantage they gain is being able to store the pump energy in a vacuum for later use without constant pumping by hand.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on March 31, 2023, 12:19:24 PM
The vacuum is set up initially (in the asian device), then depletes over time.
Vacuum must be restored. The advantage they gain is being able to store the pump energy in a vacuum for later use without constant pumping by hand.
Ah, a vacume battery. Great energy density if you discount the container.
Might there be a difference between creating a vacume to pump water up to the inlet versus introducing the vacume to neutral pressure water inflow and directing the output wisely for high efficiency in a specific task?
Even at low rpm, the German pump would seem to achieve a significant pressure difference, without creating a high pressure on the output. A long vertical exhaust pipe or low flow rate could have the bottom end up being high pressure, but the pump would be adding cavitating water to that. Fast collapse of the vacuum? Shockwave that pushes water out the exhaust?
Might a Tesla valve be added directly downstream from the pump to alleviate backflow and allow the cavitation to have the longest possible travel downstream?
A vacuum is to do with air, your confusing a giraffe and a bulldozer, this is a fluid and its called hydraulics'.
Sil
Hi All,
My question is why was it not running on it's own power?
I seen the guy turning the water wheel, looks like he's getting a good workout.
Simple to build, but the flow of the water seems to be too little to move that wheel.
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on March 31, 2023, 09:30:20 PM
Hi All,
My question is why was it not running on it's own power?
I seen the guy turning the water wheel, looks like he's getting a good workout.
Simple to build, but the flow of the water seems to be too little to move that wheel.
Tom
Valid question.
Assuming it's a legit amply overunity invention, some of it might be the magic of television, unfortunate editing for our sake, saving the general public from the boredom of a wheel turning forever and going nowhere.
It's not a lot of water, no, but there is a bit of leverage from its size. It's not scooping at the bottom which helps, but it still need to run a generator that is able to drive a motor that runs the supposedly efficient pump.
The way that water drives the wheel looks so unefficient, that the pump itself could be (a bit) overunity and it would still stop making the flow needed to run itself.
In the rich history of inventors hiding their actual inventions, might they have invented an efficient out pipe rather than an efficient pump?
If they were to scale up the system to show more water on the wheel, might that actually hurt their overall efficiency with water spilling? Their outer wheel looks about 3 or 5 centuries old for refinement. I'm sure their bearings are into the last century at least.
It look a fun project to replicate a basic version of the patented pump and then place it level with water surface, below, or over, and measure efficacy. Various well-placed air inlets would be educational. Either we learn what's worst, or there might be an unexpectedly advantageous way to allow atmosperic air boost the outflow after investing the energy to get the water sub-baric.
Quote from: AlienGrey on March 31, 2023, 08:58:08 PM
A vacuum is to do with air, your confusing a giraffe and a bulldozer, this is a fluid and its called hydraulics'.
Sil
Elaborate? The patent uses the word vacuum and it's all about water.
What do you call it when you have a pipe section with a volume of 10 liters and there's only ~4 liters of water in it, and nothing else, not even air?
Curious is that I spoke with some researches about the pump possible being helical in nature.
And they company name starts with "heli". Odd coincidence, or...?
They show off a low resolution picture of a non-helical slotted impeller housing just like in the patent, but that may not be their latest version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZard9fUGTk
Close up video, drive by a battery handdrill.
Now I have uploaded the video to youtube.I will try to visit the company at the end of April with a colleage to buy a pump from them...I hope I can do this with my bad health , but my colleague will drive the car to them..its about 150 km away from Berlin, Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrP83x2nYtY
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 04, 2023, 04:47:45 PM
Now I have uploaded the video to youtube.I will try to visit the company at the end of April with a colleage to buy a pump from them...I hope I can do this with my bad health , but my colleague will drive the car to them..its about 150 km away from Berlin, Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrP83x2nYtY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrP83x2nYtY)
Regards, Stefan.
Exciting, Stefan!
I'm sure you'll be well on the mend by then.
Do you or your friend have experiences with pump to intuitively be able to tell how efficient they are?
Waterflow when there is little or no altitude gained, flow quite easily. We've all dug trenches on the beach and know how easily a shovel can move liters of water at good speed, as long as it's more or less level with the Earth's surface. Bringing the water up a meter or two is where the muscles come in.
To lift 100 grams by 1 meter every second at 100% efficiency is just ONE WATT of power...
So when we see a water flow of say 1 L/s being brought up 10 cm, that's still just 1 Watt plus a tiny bit for the horizontal momentum needed to not fall back onto itself adding backpressure.
Anyone, if I'm wrong, please do correct me. I'm often wrong :)
The waterwheel when in the picture was always being manually helped, at all the speeds. Doesn't exactly look like a runaway waterwheel :)
John Keely from workshop Pa., 1865 -1899, invented and tested proven a self running water hydraulic motor. It had a Patent application that did not have the investor's names on it. Machine was shown with power take off running a saw , sawing wood. It developed 50lbs internal pressure from revolving 4 way valve that delivered higher pressure from water hammer and cavitation. He said he could control forces of nature with harmonic ratios of frequency vibrations. A similar unit was built and shown in Africa , many years ago. You can see an original /or replica of Keely's device on You Tube.
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 04, 2023, 04:47:45 PM
Now I have uploaded the video to youtube.I will try to visit the company at the end of April with a colleage to buy a pump from them...I hope I can do this with my bad health , but my colleague will drive the car to them..its about 150 km away from Berlin, Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrP83x2nYtY
Regards, Stefan.
Your health issues are certainly not my business but I have been down that road before with a few good friends. Never hurts to look into Tart Cherry Juice (no less than 1000mg a day) it is an all natural Natural Inflammatory. ......... I am not a doctor but it helped me and a few others.
Best of health to you.
Quote from: Fernandez on April 07, 2023, 08:02:52 PM
Your health issues are certainly not my business but I have been down that road before with a few good friends. Never hurts to look into Tart Cherry Juice (no less than 1000mg a day) it is an all natural Natural Inflammatory. ......... I am not a doctor but it helped me and a few others.
Best of health to you.
Correction .....Anti-Inflammatory. The blending of magnetic fields plays a number on you. :)
Quote from: TommeyReed on March 31, 2023, 09:30:20 PM
Hi All,
My question is why was it not running on it's own power?
I seen the guy turning the water wheel, looks like he's getting a good workout.
Simple to build, but the flow of the water seems to be too little to move that wheel.
Tom
Actually it is clear that the wheel is to heavy for the water to make it move. That is why he is using the crank to bring it up to speed. The german text then says that once it is at speed, it produces enough electricity to run the pump, which then pumps enough water to keep the wheel running. I suppose it cannot really produce a lot of extra energy, and that the people buying it in the scandinavian countries will probably have a nicely spinning "waterwheel", but i cannot imagine that energy production will go much further than maybe load a phone. it is a little like the inventor interview for the lüling motor. The inventor was enthousiastic, like this one, but the system never went into production.
Ok, i think those two builders are in good faith, but analyzing what i have seen, it think the guy spinning the wheel with his crank, gives it so much kinetic energy that it will spin a day or more (being very heavy and the water pump helping)
Cant wait to hear Stefans feedback after he visited the 2 inventors!!!
Luc
Quote from: DaKrampus on April 18, 2023, 12:32:21 PM
Actually it is clear that the wheel is to heavy for the water to make it move. That is why he is using the crank to bring it up to speed. The german text then says that once it is at speed, it produces enough electricity to run the pump, which then pumps enough water to keep the wheel running. I suppose it cannot really produce a lot of extra energy, and that the people buying it in the scandinavian countries will probably have a nicely spinning "waterwheel", but i cannot imagine that energy production will go much further than maybe load a phone. it is a little like the inventor interview for the lüling motor. The inventor was enthousiastic, like this one, but the system never went into production.
Ok, i think those two builders are in good faith, but analyzing what i have seen, it think the guy spinning the wheel with his crank, gives it so much kinetic energy that it will spin a day or more (being very heavy and the water pump helping)
Cant wait to hear Stefans feedback after he visited the 2 inventors!!!
Luc
What they are showing hardly looks like an optimised system. If that thing can only produce water splatter and a phone charge, then surely in that same reality there is rool to optimize the liquid being pumped, water-to-wheel interaction, ideal pump flow wheel height and (independently) radius ratios, pump rpm, pump geometry, pump housing and blade surface patterns, etc, etc? Any such opimizations from what a couple of German blokes threw together would elevate the output to change a phone (say, 1-5 Watts) to a decent percentage of the pump's power which seems significant, maybe around the kW range?
I think, it either doesn't self run, or it can do so easily with refinements and with worthwhile output. It seems it will never have a high power density, as it relies on a big apparatus and just a bit of water coming down a small height difference under the weak force of gravity.
If there is indeed a gain, it seems it must be on the overcoming of gravity side, else the waterwheel would surely have been an enclosed turbine relying on pressure rather than potential energy?
At the moment I can only imagine a gain if the way the pump worked and were hooked up to inlet and any amount of exhausts or ambient air inlets, to somehow do better than the mathemetical flow possible for the power driving the pump.
I'm no builder or even published academic, but I can only see a gain for a "vacuum" pump when it cleverly interacts with ambient air, which is the abundant factor in this system.
Is the pump really vastly more efficient than traditional pumps, more than 100% efficient? A water wheel that doesn't need Mr. Hand would be convicing, but we've not seen it without Mr. Hand.
Let's all hope Stefan will soon be fit to travel to Bavaria and meet with the inventor and learn about it what he's able to. If I had a car, I might have done the 800 km drive there just for fun. I don't even need an OU invention as an excuse to be in Bavaria, I love the mountains and cross-country ski trails there :)
Quote from: hartiberlin on March 31, 2023, 09:18:49 AM
Well, I just got an email from a friend, that he himself visited these 2 inventors a few years back..
There the machine did not work yet selfrunning...
Maybe they are still working on it ??
He also doubted that they will get it to selfrun..
I tried to call just now the TV station, but today it was already a bit too late in the day...
Will try again next week.
Regards, Stefan.
To improve the efficiency of this machine:
Take the height at which the output water impacts the wheel with a downward force,
and go to the back of the machine and cut the pipe off at that height.
Any height above this, you are simply wasting energy lifting water against gravity, then recovering a percentage of that to assist in driving the wheel.
This is nonsensical. It is better to use it as is, without trying to feed the water back in.
well, very strange. the same day i read about this water wheel device here (and saw the video stefan had uploaded to yt),
there was a program on austrian tv called "2 minutes - 2 millions". they have the same in other countries, in germany its called "Höhle der Löwen" - "The cavern of lions", in the states its "shark tank" and there is also "dragons den" i think in canada.
Anyway here in Austria there was an old man and his granddaughter presenting his invention to a group of investors. Actually the invention was a "solar steam engine water pump". (i continued watching because i was still under the impression of this pump video here).
They had to pixelate the pump because he was waiting for the patent, but to make a long story short, he convinced one of the investors to give him 500.000 euro. Actually its an easy running waterpump like this one, but its driven with, what he calls a modified solar cell steam engine. the cell is about 2 square feet, it does not generate electricity but it simply heats a very small amount of water to produce steam, and this steam makes the pump run. so its a sort of "solar steam engine".
if someone is interested i am adding the few pics of the device here (those that are not pixelated) but somehow if the pump we've seen above is so efficient, it would run like hell with this device.
Here is what I know:
its got (a future homepage) https://pumpa.tech
the tv program it was on:
https://www.puls4.com/tv/2-minuten-2-millionen/staffel-10/episode-01/pumpa-im-pitch
the video there is only the part where they present the pump.
its in german of course, and there are 2 commercial blocks embedded, sorry thats not my call.
Basically for the non german speakers, she is explaning that the system uses about one glass of water that is heated as steam, and runs the steam engine that is producing electricity to run the pump. The guy that invests the 500.000 € is hans peter Haselsteiner, an austrian billionaire, one of the richest men in the country, he has a very big international construction company (so the 500.000 are peanuts for him).
I will certainly keep on watching this.
Sorry i didn't want to spam this thread, but i thought it might be interesting until stefan as visited those 2 inventors of the other pump.
Luc
Quote from: sm0ky2 on April 20, 2023, 08:29:20 AM
To improve the efficiency of this machine:
Take the height at which the output water impacts the wheel with a downward force,
and go to the back of the machine and cut the pipe off at that height.
Any height above this, you are simply wasting energy lifting water against gravity, then recovering a percentage of that to assist in driving the wheel.
This is nonsensical. It is better to use it as is, without trying to feed the water back in.
Seems that way to me as well. Although I'd rather see a taller wheel to make up the full height.
In my fairy tale version where the vacuum pockets in the water and/or air bubbles let in on the way up play a role in lifting the water higher than a normal pump would, there might be a case to take the water as high as it goes.
Any downward pointing outlet pipe might play a role in pulling low pressure inside the rest of the pipe. With more vacuum bubbles collapsing further downstream, the water exiting downward would be denser than the water coming up. Quite a theoretical stretch, and the prototype doesn't seem to actively make sure of any special flow dynamic, it just had water coming out being aimed at the wheel below and that's it.
I'd love to see a well matched and tuned off the shelf pump substitute theirs, for a comparison in in runtime or manual start input. If the water wheel would be running day and night like a champ, it wouldn't matter much but still interesting to know how much better it were to be.
We canceled the Visit, as they also don't want any new visitors anymore and it was said, that the old inventor now has dementia and can no longer work on it....
So this project seems to be dead and did not selfrun...
Was probably just a media hype of theTV station that made the video...
Regards, Stefan.