Hi All,
I've have been working one a new type of engine design using fluids to replace basic IC engine. This is based on the research I did on the Clem engine prototyping and testing.
What if we using fluid as a liquid piston being pump upward in to a combustion chamber with air and any type of fuel?
Dealing with Charles Law, we know temperature is very imported in and type of combustion. So the liquid would have to heat up to get more efficiency.
The high efficiency and output would be greater then any IC today, due to the fact liquid is being force downward to either a turbine or even a propulsion water jet system.
We all seen water rockets, but most people don't realize the true output of the thrust when compress air is forcing the water outward.
The water rocket basic math is :1.57*psi*dia*dia. In other words the thrust of a 1/4 diameter jet at 120 psi would produce 1.57*120psi*.25*.25= 11.775 lb of force.
Now imagine having 2" diameter jet with 2000+psi: 1.57*2000*2*2= 12,560lb of thrust at peek pressure.
This is the future of engines!
This is a basic test chamber I will be building.
Tom
Hi All,
I just got back home and will start working on this combustion chamber tester. I was able to find a small over head valve to build this test chamber that will allow fluid to be pumped into a air chamber and explode like a water rocket.
If this works, it would be a new type of engine I call a fluid piston engine that has no crank shaft or pistons.
Tom
Hi All,
New update of this liquid piston build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyKPH1pzCvU
Tom
Intriguing concept!
My first thoughts:
You lose the flywheel-like behaviour of solid pistons. With the liquid piston, you have a water hammer with inlet and exhaust strokes. The water rocket is great in that it has one long exhaust stroke.
Spark and combustion timing will be interesting with the variable water volume shifted.
Effectively this solution is competing with a pump from say, a jet ski drivetrain?
YEAH BACK TO THE FUTURE PAST.
Hi All,
Update on this build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvqdvg0qqo&t=334s
Tom
Hi All,
This is some interesting things on Victor Fischer who worked on water injected engines.
http://www.rexresearch.com/fischer/fischer.htm
Tom
Just a reminder to those unaware of multifaceted test chamber ,
Sam Leach claim is on "to do"list .
500psi lithium nitrate 20 ppm in water -injected into ICE runs on water ?
2 independent Los Angeles labs verified claim in 1975-6
Tremendous gratitude to Mr.Reed putting this on his busy work schedule!
Respectfully
Chet K
That sounds very interesting. . . . with today's resources it might prove successful. . .
Off the shelf option: Bosch offers fuel-injectors that can handle up to 350-bars (5000 psi):
https://www.bosch-mobility.com/en/solutions/valves/high-pressure-injector/ (https://www.bosch-mobility.com/en/solutions/valves/high-pressure-injector/)
And lithium nitrate isn't cheap but it can be ordered:
https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/lithium-nitrate-99-extra-pure-thermo-scientific/AC211322500
Hi All,
Been doing some more research on Victor Fischer water injected steam engine.
BASIC STATEMENTS ON
THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS
AS IT RELATES TO THE FISCHER CYCLE ENGINE.
A. IS THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS BEING VIOLATED?
1. The findings of Joule and others led Rudolf Clausius, a German physicist, to state in 1850 that: "In any process, energy can be changed from one form to another (including heat and work), but it is never created or destroyed." This is the First Law of Thermodynamics. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is stated in different ways by various authors. For the purpose of this report, the following statement by Rudolf Clausius is selected: "It is impossible for a self-acting machine, unaided by external agency, to convey heat from a body at one temperature to another body at a higher temperature." The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not capable of specific proof, but is axiomatic. It follows from the Second Law that no heat engine can convert an equal or greater useful power energy from a lesser heat energy source.
2. All Perpetual Motion Machines violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and they also, do not produce useful power or work. Thermodynamic Academicians describe the Carnot Cycle Engine (Sadi Carnot in 1824) as the "Ideal Engine." The Carnot Cycle Engine is primarily based on the defunct and extinct Caloric Theory of Heat. In 1738, Daniel Bernoulli describe the Caloric Theory of Heat as follows: "That heat was matter and an imponderable fluid, which readily flowed from a body of high temperature to one of lower temperature." The downfall of the Caloric Theory of Heat was initiated by Sir Benjamin Thompson, Count Rumford in 1798. Unlike the Perpetual Motion Machines, the Carnot Cycle Engine does not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics. But, a tangible mechanical Carnot Cycle Engine is very much like all Perpetual Motion Machines, since they both produce no useful power or work. The reciprocating steam locomotive engine and the Fischer Cycle Engine are neither Perpetual Motion Machines nor Carnot Cycle Engines, because they both do not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and they both produce useful power and work.
3. The U.S. Patent Office's Primary Examiner, Mr. Allen M. Ostrager initially rejected the Australian Patent Application for the Fischer Cycle Engine because he thought, "...it violated the Second Law of Thermodynamics." Dr. Martin G. Horner, Ph.D. (OXFORD) (Chemistry & Patent Law), Patent Attorney, and the author of the original Australian Fischer Cycle Engine Patents, was able to demonstrate, from his personal observations and experiences, to the satisfaction of the U.S. Patent Office that the Fischer Cycle Engine did produce useful work, and that it did not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Since that first and only rejection, the U.S. Office of Patents and Trademarks has registered five U.S. Patents pertaining to the Fischer Cycle Engine research and development.
B. THE STEAM ENGINE VS. THE FISCHER CYCLE ENGINE.
1. The reciprocating steam engine is an external heat source and an external vaporization engine. Its steam vapor is produced in an external steam boiler, and the boiler's steam vapor pressure is directly applied to the top surface of the reciprocating steam engine's drive piston to produce power and work.
2. The Fischer Cycle Engine is an external heat source and an internal vaporization engine. Its steam vapor is produced inside the engine's cylinder after the high pressurized and high temperature water, in the liquid state, is directly applied to the top of the engine's drive piston. Before the liquid water is injected into the cylinder (similar to injection of fuel into a diesel engine), the water is first pressurized to a pressure (i.e., 3,100 psig), which is higher than the vapor pressure (i.e., 3,075 psig) of the water at an operating temperature of 700°F within its liquid-to-gas heat exchanger. The pressurized heated liquid water contained within the heat exchanger is directly applied to the top surface of the piston at the top of the piston's stroke in the engine's cylinder. The 3,100 psig liquid water pressure initially applies a hydraulic force to the top surface of the piston to produce work, which is analogous to the reciprocating steam locomotive engine, except that the boiler pressure of a steam locomotive is only about 125 to 250 psig.
3. After a steam engine boiler's steam pressure moves the piston throughout the piston's stroke, the steam is then discharged at the bottom of the piston's stroke as 100 percent steam vapor. This steam vapor is then transferred to a steam condenser, where the steam vapor is transformed into liquid water, to be recycled to the steam boiler. During this liquefying process, all of the steam's Latent Heat of Vaporization (70% to 80% of the initial fuel's heat energy) is wastefully discharged into the atmosphere.
4. In contrast, only about ten percent (10%) of the liquid water mass vaporizes into steam throughout the piston stoke. Therefore, nearly all of the liquid water mass that is injected into the Fischer Cycle Engine's cylinder is discharged as liquid, to be recycled. This liquid water is returned to the water make-up pump, and is repressurized and reheated to the operating pressure and temperature for another cycle. The Fischer Cycle Engine is significant because it doesn't require licensed steam engineers nor costly and hazardous steam boilers nor wastefully release essential volumes of fresh water and heat energy into the atmosphere, as do the steam engines' large cooling towers.
Rexresearch information on Victor Fischer:
http://www.rexresearch.com/fischer/fischer.htm
I think it's very possible to create a water injected steam engine.
If I have a mechanical small diesel injector, with a heating coil to raise the temperature of 700deg before the injector and after the pump, this in fact would transfer into steam output.
Tom
The liquid piston engine was invented/built by a Hungarian scientist during WW2. He emigrated to US to keep that and other inventions out of reach of the Nazi war machine. He was taken in by Ca. family , then after 1945 the US Gov wanted his tech papers and he refused. He went back to Europe. Magazine data can be read on Internet free, or purchase back issue magazine- Sept 1946 Amazing stories. (Chapters on - The Hefferlin Manuscript". He also used a preset 1.3Mhtz Resonance Tesla coil with electrodes to form easy Hydrogen fuel from steam chamber , to run his prop plane engine. The hot manifold boiled the water. Screw in type diesel spark plug heaters nowadays can be used as low voltage heating element for prestart mode.
Hi Russ,
Do you have a running motor on water injected, or a video on YouTube?
I can build just about anything, very good in small and large engines of all types.
Question, did you used distill water? tap water has electrolyte and other junk in it and will discharge like a resister.
I did these experiments over 10 years ago, for I do know how to create the plasma arc...
Tom
My long running project is the confirm and improvements over the S1R9A9M9 mineralized water in lawn mower carb engine test. The 2 originals you can see on You tube. Nathren and his 3 technicians in Georgia 2008, worked on several projects , but the hydrogen gas from electrolysis in combustion chambers was the most gratifying. His final circuit design was not published for car or mower conversion, due to the specialized AC 60 cycles dual coil 1.5MH relay were not available to purchase. They were actually obsolete electo-mechanical latching, type switching as about .7ohm per coil, and used as new replacements for Georgia traffic signal lights pole box use. Highly reliable in all weather conditions and were sealed in vacuum, and Bakelite cover with outside screw terminals. No data on them found. Relay was used successful per cylinder for passing high volts and low volts same time. Smooth running engines on water with these special relays and EGR same time to get the Nitrogen embedded in exhaust water. He said they were worth their weight in gold. Currently checking my test engines for compression values. I built several designs of his S1r triple coils assemblies for timing change on Briggs engine. I also built (untested) Carlon sealable box with spark gap, inductor, magnets, and diodes with internal vacuum on outer gauge. This was to simulate the old relay. Magnetic field also needed at plugs tip, along with the late ATDC timing about -38 degrees. The resulting small hydrogen gas and accompanying WATER VAPOR PRESSURE pushes the piston. See my other notes on the 5A average 10 Amp Peak DC current through spark plug. Not considered plasma. All his car conversions- 18MPG only water, used 6-7Amps DC from Inverter box and half wave DC. The necessary hand built power supply requires ISOLATED separated grounds, as coming from inverter secondary with no feed back. Zero ohms spark plugs required , or remove resistor from matching length threads of Champion type that comes apart to substitute copper wire piece.
Hi Russwr,
Are you saying you have no proof of a running engine on video? I'm willing to test your theories, but some verified video or experiments would help a lot.
HHO is questionable, knowing the effects of HHO and the electrical power just to idle a basic small engine is in the kw range. Maybe plasma would work due to the temperature, but to contain the plasma effects would be questionable also.
Lets not forget the explosion rate being too high to even have enough heat to expand any slow burning IC engine.
I think a more realistic approach would be water injector at a high temperature, Victor Fisher design.
I was hoping you have something to back your claims, video would be very helpful.
Tom
Hi All,
Getting ready to test fire the water piston chamber, so I'm building a pelton wheel turbine to test the output using a generator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-T3H_wumlo
Tom
Hi All,
This is a interesting Pelton wheel with a 1:6.66 gear ratio.
So I did a basic output this should produce using 60psi and a 0.25 jet.
I did add a lost, but 365watts seem very impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4wUiVYGskc
Tom
Hi All,
Ok, ready to do a test run on this pelton turbine set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0rvT1xd83c
Tom
Hi All,
This is the pelton wheel connected to a low rpm generator test run.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsVgwjBYYg
Tom
Hi All,
New update on this liquid piston combustion chamber and how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fw1_OLjGs
Tom
That's a lot of liquid cylinder mass to be sent out with the combution. It better be mouted to something really solid and heavy because it will jar like the rocket is landing on the setup rather than softly setting off.
The liquid sloshing and being pressed around bends and hitting turbines will be a far cry from crank efficiencies of course. But yes, you could have a large spinning toroid accumulator to receive liquid being squirted out, catch and store its kinetic energy and mass.
Rather than a light piston that stays in the cylinder you have a heavy liquid one that needs to come in and rush out. Is this then a pump without the usual rotating parts, by incorporating it into the ICE that would often be driving it anyway?
The water does share the cylinder with the combustion so it may not be too easy to certify for drink water projects ;-) If it were hydrogen combustion I guess that would be a lot better already. With a bit of water at the top of the liquid piston touching a super hot filament, you might even get the H and O split as needed to not have to bring in external fuel, only electrical power for the heat and if needed spark. "Self fuelling water pump" has a nice ring to it ;-)
Hi Cloxxki,
Great point, but this is much more powerful and would need safety precaution to the max.
The exhaust port is 0.75 diameter, not 0.5.
It can be changed to any size and this is the crazy output it could reach.
This would be the peek thrust calculation:
basic water thrust = 1.57 x psi x dia x dia
1.57 x 1000 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 392.5lb
1.57 x 1500 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 588.75lb
1.57 x 1000 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 883.125lb
1.57 x 1500 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 1,334.6875lb
1.57 x 1000 x 1 x 1 = 1,570lb
1.57 x 1500 x 1 x 1 = 2,355lb
Diesel would be too dangerous at this time.
Tom
Hi All,
This is more detail update on the liquid combustion chamber ( Open Source) with mechanical release valve update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et_0rzbreV8
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 06, 2023, 09:17:43 AM
Hi Cloxxki,
Great point, but this is much more powerful and would need safety precaution to the max.
The exhaust port is 0.75 diameter, not 0.5.
It can be changed to any size and this is the crazy output it could reach.
This would be the peek thrust calculation:
basic water thrust = 1.57 x psi x dia x dia
1.57 x 1000 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 392.5lb
1.57 x 1500 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 588.75lb
1.57 x 1000 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 883.125lb
1.57 x 1500 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 1,334.6875lb
1.57 x 1000 x 1 x 1 = 1,570lb
1.57 x 1500 x 1 x 1 = 2,355lb
Diesel would be too dangerous at this time.
Tom
I'll assume those are all accurate, a lot of pressur there. It would be for a small stroke I suppose as the liquid pistion seems u unlikely to accomodate the combustion by kindly giving way at the exact rate of optimal gas expansion? The heavy piston will bare more a lot at all, and then the driving force, the combustion, is already.
Unless you intend to have a single combustion event powerful enough to totally displace all that water, through a tighter valve no less. Yeah, that might break things. Perhaps not an indoor kind of experiment. Balancing that stroke out is going to be a complication unless you can have the cylinder be horizontally and then have opposing exhausts from simulaneously firing cylinders, or a single cylinder centrally combusting with two or three liquid pistons each way.