Hi All,
This is very interesting project that might show OverUnity
I'm working on a new design as a generator, could it be over unity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwgBAaBag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCsgoLc_fzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgajGv4Aok&t=0s
Tom
Cloxxki
I disagree.
If that was all cause by the wind, then explain how the treadmill experiment was able accelerate the trike wheels while the thrust from the propeller was moving it in opposite direction?
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 28, 2023, 07:27:15 AM
Cloxxki
I disagree.
If that was all cause by the wind, then explain how the treadmill experiment was able accelerate the trike wheels while the thrust from the propeller was moving it in opposite direction?
Tom
Quite simple really Tom
Look at how fast the treadmill is turning the wheels, and look how fast the trike is traveling up the treadmill.
Much like having a pushbike in top gear, where your feet are traveling a lot slower than the bike is along the road.
Brad
Brad,
I also disagree.
If that was the case of gears yes, but the thrust is what is moving it forward. Totally different physics then mechanical connections.
Try that with gears only, impossible!
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 28, 2023, 08:05:41 AM
Brad,
I also disagree.
If that was the case of gears yes, but the thrust is what is moving it forward. Totally different physics then mechanical connections.
Try that with gears only, impossible!
Tom
It can be done with gears and wheels only.
If we look at the prop in the case of the treadmill, it is pushing against stationary air.
If we build a vehicle, where we have a wheel running on the treadmill bed, and we then run that wheel through a gearbox, and have a set of wheels linked to that gearbox output ,on the stationary part of the treadmill alongside the moving bed, then we could get that vehicle to climb up hill against the bed traveling downhill.
I did think it was an interesting effect when i first seen it, but also well within the laws of physics.
Brad,
I would like to see you create a car to move forward while the on tread mill moves it backward!
Nice challenge to do, prove it....
Tom
Cloxxki,
Please show me one video showing a mini car no mater how heavy or light it is moving forward on a treadmill with the front wheels power the back wheels to push it forward.
The wind thrust is totally different then you think. It still takes power to rotate the propeller and you would need enough weight on the front axle to power it.
I will be waiting on a video where a mini car moves forward while get the power from the tread mill moving in opposite direction....
Tom
Cloxxki,
Ok, you should know? Yet, you have nothing to prove do you?
I like to see a prototype, I'm too stupid to understand a word you just said.
Now you're claiming the professor who bet 10,000 didn't know what he was talking about. So you're a professor in physics?
I'm sorry, the BS meter is going off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgajGv4Aok&t=0s
Let just get to the point, you have no proof you're right. Professor Cloxxki......lol
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 28, 2023, 11:40:57 AM
Brad,
I would like to see you create a car to move forward while the on tread mill moves it backward!
Nice challenge to do, prove it....
Tom
Would love to, but only one problem--> i don't own a treadmill lol.
Brad,
Go to a gym, like many people do.
Not a good excuse, nice try.
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 28, 2023, 09:06:13 PM
Brad,
Go to a gym, like many people do.
Not a good excuse, nice try.
Tom
Tom
It is quite easy to push on a vehicle backwards, and have that vehicle go forward a greater distance than you pushed backward, using only gears and wheels. You don't need a treadmill to show this. I use to do it with lego cars years ago.
Brad
Brad,
"It is quite easy to push on a vehicle backwards, and have that vehicle go forward a greater distance than you pushed backward, using only gears and wheels. You don't need a treadmill to show this. I use to do it with lego cars years ago"
Let me get the straight, you want to change the rules and take the treadmill off the table. That was my point from the beginning.
Looks like I have to explain it with pictures, even kids can understand.
Sorry Brad, but I have to be called you out as BS. Nice try.
When you put your geared Lego car on the treadmill, it will not move it forward with gears no matter how you want to believe it will work.
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 03:27:18 AM
Brad,
"It is quite easy to push on a vehicle backwards, and have that vehicle go forward a greater distance than you pushed backward, using only gears and wheels. You don't need a treadmill to show this. I use to do it with lego cars years ago"
Let me get the straight, you want to change the rules and take the treadmill off the table. That was my point from the beginning.
Looks like I have to explain it with pictures, even kids can understand.
Sorry Brad, but I have to be called you out as BS. Nice try.
When you put your geared Lego car on the treadmill, it will not move it forward with gears no matter how you want to believe it will work.
Tom
The air that the propeller pushes against in the treadmill buggy is not moving, so the wheels that also would push the buggy should also be on a part of the treadmill that is not moving. These wheels would be powered by another wheel that is being turned by the belt on the treadmill, then through a gearbox, and into the wheels sitting on the stationary part of the treadmill. The two are the same--the propeller pushes against stationary air, so with the wheel driven buggy, those wheels should also be pushing against a stationary medium. You cant have it both ways Tom, regardless of how confused you are about how the FDWTTW buggy works.
The propeller is simply a rotating sail, that due to it's pitch and rotation, its surfaces are effectively moving down wind slower than the wind.
You are simply gearing up the wind speed via the propeller, the very same way as you gear up a bike, so as your feet travel slower than the ground you are riding on.
And as far as your argument with Cloxxki go's about the physics professor go's, well some of these !so called! physicists have the simple things excape them some times, and obviously he was wrong.
So no Tom--no BS.
Brad
Brad,
Really? Come on man (Joe Biden)!
What you are saying is nonsense with the gears theory.
This is another way you claim your geared car would work. Not going to happen Brad!
As far as the car with the propeller, the treadmill moving the tires alone would cause the car to follow the direction of the treadmill plus the increase load of turning the propeller will increase friction. The propeller needs even greater thrust to over come these factors.
Yet, you are claiming you can do this with simple gears to move it forward using the same wheels that created friction and even accelerate it forward is just insane comment.
First of all, you might as well say you can move a car down the road without any motor.
Tom
Some itches just can't be scratched without a bit of elbow grease,
Or journey into the "what ifs"!
Myself ( being completely intrigued)
Quite curious about power in /power out measurements
Here we dabble in all manner of outside the box ,
Greatful that Tom puts efforts beyond the keyboard..( as do many others in open source community)
You just never know ....
His design reminds me of a chaotic gyroscope device that Tinsel Koala
Had shared some images of years back,( was an incredible build)
He said it did "other worldly things" (his opinions.. not the scientists who commissioned the build)
There was no convincing TK otherwise ( always a bit itchy ...
You just never know what can happen with outside the box "what ifs" ?
After all ,
This young woman's efforts got us here
Approximately 12:50 mark
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgajGv4Aok&t=0s (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgajGv4Aok&t=0s)
Bringing generators and motors into this ....
Is just a cool evolution of the "what ifs"
And opportunity for measuring ( honing
Respectfully
Chet K
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 05:17:58 AM
Brad,
Really? Come on man (Joe Biden)!
What you are saying is nonsense with the gears theory.
This is another way you claim your geared car would work. Not going to happen Brad!
Yet, you are claiming you can do this with simple gears to move it forward using the same wheels that created friction and even accelerate it forward is just insane comment.
First of all, you might as well say you can move a car down the road without any motor.
Tom
You're not getting it Tom.
The air the prop is pushing against is stationary, so with the wheels and gears experiment, the drive wheels should also be pushing against something stationary. And like the propeller, the wheels on the stationary part of the treadmill, should also be driven by the treadmills belt, which is moving in the opposite direction.
QuoteAs far as the car with the propeller, the treadmill moving the tires alone would cause the car to follow the direction of the treadmill plus the increase load of turning the propeller will increase friction. The propeller needs even greater thrust to over come these factors.
I find it hard to believe that you don't understand how this works.
We have the treadmill belt traveling backwards at lets say 10m/sec, and providing the car with energy, which is translated to the propeller that pushes the car forward at about .2m?sec
Your mistake is looking at the stationary treadmill frame, and not looking at the vehicle in relation to the belt.
But anyway, i look forward to seeing your OU device based around this effect.
Brad,
Instead of going back and forth and you're not willing to build your car prototype.
I see it different, let me explain what I really see.
If you take a turn table that is control with a speed controller and add the propeller car that moves in the opposite direction. Is it possible to lower the speed of the turn table where the car increases until the turn table is stop and the car continues to accelerate? '
That is what I see in that video and I must built that next.
"Theories are foolish statements, prototype outcome is facts"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUzFs7gT0s
Tom
Professor Cloxxki(lol)
Instead of talking let just have a build off, just maybe we all can learn something new.
I haven't seen your prototype doing the same as the one on the video, just try to do a geared car going forward, while the tread mill moves in the opposite direction.
My opinion is you're nothing more then hot air with nothing to show.
My idea is to prove or disprove this could be over unity.
The rotating disk and the propeller car will either prove the car accelerate or won't.
4ft diameter turn table would be a good size to work with and a rod attached to the center shaft with a bearing. it could even be a sprag bearing where is will stay still until it accelerate forward.
My theory is the car will continue to accelerate to infinity or break.
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 12:05:57 PM
Professor Cloxxki(lol)
Instead of talking let just have a build off, just maybe we all can learn something new.
I haven't seen your prototype doing the same as the one on the video, just try to do a geared car going forward, while the tread mill moves in the opposite direction.
My opinion is you're nothing more then hot air with nothing to show.
My idea is to prove or disprove this could be over unity.
The rotating disk and the propeller car will either prove the car accelerate or won't.
4ft diameter turn table would be a good size to work with and a rod attached to the center shaft with a bearing. it could even be a sprag bearing where is will stay still until it accelerate forward.
My theory is the car will continue to accelerate to infinity or break.
Tom
Your theory is incorrect.
The vehicle will reach a maximum speed, where the propeller can no longer provide enough thrust to overcome the increasing friction that comes with speed.
See my setup below, where i will not have a propeller pushing against stationary air, but a gear driven wheel pushing against a stationary platform.
Bet i can get mine to go faster than yours Tom :D
Let the challenge begin--i accept.
I think 4 foot for the rotating platform is a bit big though.
2 foot in diameter would be more than enough.
You set the RPM the platform rotates at, and we will see which car can do the most revolutions in say 2 minutes at a set platform RPM.
Brad
Brad,
I don't think so, but I plan to do 4' diameter not 2'
One thing that won't happen is the car going forward. the gear ratio is greater then the wheels, this is where the mistake happens all the time.
This is why the thrust worked in the first place, not physically attached to the drive gear system like yours.
Thanks for entering this build, maybe your friend will join too.
Tom
Brad,
My basic design to test my theory.
Tom
My version to test Veritasium test, does the car move even faster then in the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UguSzrhL34
Tom
Professor Cloxxki(lol),
No comment unless you're building on this forum, you're fired!
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 01:02:47 PM
Brad,
One thing that won't happen is the car going forward. the gear ratio is greater then the wheels, this is where the mistake happens all the time.
Tom
Are you saying my car won't move in my setup?
I have not tried, but i see no reason it will not move.
With the propeller setup, the wheels are driving the propeller, which provides thrust to push the car forward- (if we assume that the bed is traveling backwards). My setup is much the same, where the only difference is that i will be using a wheel to push the car forward, and not a propeller.
Brad
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 02:41:19 PM
My version to test Veritasium test, does the car move even faster then in the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UguSzrhL34
Tom
Ah, ok. You mean 4 inches.
I thought you meant 4 foot for the diameter of the rotating table lol.
Bloody Americans and there feet and inches stuff.
My rotating table will be about 600mm in diameter lol.
tinman,
My turntable is 4ft diameter and you went with 23.62 inches.....lol
I believe I have all the parts, so it should be a fast build.
Tom
The turntable design will add resistance as will different bearing choices.
I would think you would be better to use a remote control car. Record the speed at full throttle or any particular throttle percentage. Then add fan blades and record the speed again at the same throttle percentage. Or record time taken to kill the battery without fan and again with fan.You wouldn't be adding any resistance other then the fan blades.
The turntable design will add resistance from the added bearing or what ever used for the center attachment used for keeping it on the table plus there will be resistance from the centrifugal force.
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 29, 2023, 09:02:20 PM
tinman,
My turntable is 4ft diameter and you went with 23.62 inches.....lol
I believe I have all the parts, so it should be a fast build.
Tom
When are you guys going to catch up with the rest of the world, and go metric ;D
Ok, so my table is close to 2 foot in diameter, as i had no 4 foot wide sheet timber to make one that big.
Here is my setup design video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2_YiD3B04Q
Brad
Hi Brad,
I will have my update today, my turntable setup with 3/4 plywood I have.
I want to thank you for taking on this challenge, it tells me there is hope in this world of people like yourself trying to build something instead of people who just talk BS.
This would be fun and no matter what happens maybe other can join in with other challenges to build stuff on this forum. It really got lazy with lots of chatter today.
My challenge is not personal, it's seemed like the only way to get people involved today.
Tom.
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 30, 2023, 05:14:00 AM
Hi Brad,
I will have my update today, my turntable setup with 3/4 plywood I have.
I want to thank you for taking on this challenge, it tells me there is hope in this world of people like yourself trying to build something instead of people who just talk BS.
This would be fun and no matter what happens maybe other can join in with other challenges to build stuff on this forum. It really got lazy with lots of chatter today.
My challenge is not personal, it's seemed like the only way to get people involved today.
Tom.
Mine is coming along just nicely.
Will have it altogether by tomorrow lunch time-if i don't sleep in to late lol.
Got the center bearing swivel all printed up, the swinging motor mount all printed up, the disk cut out, and mounted to a bearing head, and the outer running board is ready to fit once the motor is set up.
Brad
tinman,
Nice, I'm hoping to get everything done soon. I have lots of work on a few jobs to do. But I should be finish soon.
Tom
I had mentioned this to a member here
But could not find it
Cloxxi found it and sent it
Artemis technology had written years back of being able to sail against the Amazon current flow
With no wind
At crazy speeds (30 knots?)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk)
IMO
There is something to learn here ( way outside the box)
Perhaps it runs through all matter ( apparent wind ..or making your own wind by leveraging off
The "wheel works of nature " ?
Tremendous gratitude for those willing to stomp around the box and try the "what ifs"
I see it does get testy ...
One thing I must ad ..this path forward
Is not ever limited to topics "apparent boundaries or claims "
Inspirations have no fences ...or limits ( speed or other)
The sky is the limit...
Update one on my rotating table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwdASM1BgCU
Quote from: TommeyReed on August 30, 2023, 03:30:20 PM
Hi Speed Infinity Challengers,
Ok, working on the main rotary table and will have to make a stand for this big prototype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGfPMkd1tQ4
Tom
You in a hurry Tom ?, or have you been sucking on the laughing gas lol.
My setup is also driven by a small wheel.
Quote from: tinman on August 30, 2023, 11:23:42 PM
You in a hurry Tom ?, or have you been sucking on the laughing gas lol.
My setup is also driven by a small wheel.
I was thinking he did a few lines before making the video. LOL
Well the results are in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWa_qrs-pY
Quote from: tinman on August 31, 2023, 02:12:50 AM
Well the results are in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWa_qrs-pY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWa_qrs-pY)
At least you built and tested it which earns much respect from me.
Hi Brad,
Nice video, I missed the fun I had with Lego's...
Unfortunately, my build needs lots of 3d printing parts that takes many hours. The gear box housing alone took over 4 hours. My CR-10 is a great printer I have to print 3 special wheel that over 7hr with 80mm diameter...
Every part needs to be made for the drive system, But I will give a up date today and should have the car finished soon.
This is not a toy, so it would have to over perform and it's not made with Lego parts.
Good job.
Tom
Hi All,
I'm still working on my complex speed infinity build that is not a child playing with Lego's.
This is a real experiment with real data and will answer the question, would this keep accelerate where the air drag limits the speed.
The Lego toy would never work on the treadmill, but due to the infinity question the rotating table was needed.
Tom.
tinman
QuoteWell the results are in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWa_qrs-pY
Nice video, however I would have liked an explanation as to how the cart and gearing was setup. For example, to say this wheel here turns this gear which then drives this other wheel here at this rpm based on this gear ratio here which then does this. To spell out exactly what was done, the reasoning behind it and the intended result.
My observations were that since the two cart wheels on the turn table cannot turn at different speeds it can be inferred that the inner turn table cart wheel is geared to turn the outer wheel on the static table top. A rough guesstimate would be for each rotation of the turn table the cart moves 1/8 the distance on the static table thus a 1:8 gear ratio.
Realistically, it doesn't matter which direction the cart moves. We could gear it down at which point the cart appears to move opposite to the turn table as you have shown. Or we could gear it up and have the cart move faster than the turn table in the direction of the turn table. Which is all the down wind faster than the wind cart does in reality.
In effect, on your cart if you swapped the big and little gear on the axles from 1:8 to 8:1 and added an idle gear between the big/little gear to reverse the direction it should move faster than the turn table in the direction of the turn table. Of course, it's up to you but I think it would be a good follow up video. As if to say, you thought that was impressive, watch this...
AC
Quote from: onepower on September 03, 2023, 04:27:30 PM
tinman
Nice video, however I would have liked an explanation as to how the cart and gearing was setup. For example, to say this wheel here turns this gear which then drives this other wheel here at this rpm based on this gear ratio here which then does this. To spell out exactly what was done, the reasoning behind it and the intended result.
My observations were that since the two cart wheels on the turn table cannot turn at different speeds it can be inferred that the inner turn table cart wheel is geared to turn the outer wheel on the static table top. A rough guesstimate would be for each rotation of the turn table the cart moves 1/8 the distance on the static table thus a 1:8 gear ratio.
Realistically, it doesn't matter which direction the cart moves. We could gear it down at which point the cart appears to move opposite to the turn table as you have shown. Or we could gear it up and have the cart move faster than the turn table in the direction of the turn table. Which is all the down wind faster than the wind cart does in reality.
In effect, on your cart if you swapped the big and little gear on the axles from 1:8 to 8:1 and added an idle gear between the big/little gear to reverse the direction it should move faster than the turn table in the direction of the turn table. Of course, it's up to you but I think it would be a good follow up video. As if to say, you thought that was impressive, watch this...
AC
Going against the rotation of the turn table, was just another way to show the prop driven cart going up hill against the fall of the treadmill. We could gear it anyway we like, and make it go in any direction we like, but it shows nothing out of the ordinary.
Going down wind faster than the wind, is nothing out of the ordinary. The wind is the power source, and we have just geared it up.
It's the very same as your foot moving very slowly forward in relation to the bike, when you're in top gear, but very fast in relation to the road. So while your foot (wind) is moving slowly forward in relation to the bike (wind vehicle), in both cases, the road is moving very quickly. The propeller on the DWFTTW vehicle, is just a rotating sail, where it's surface is moving down wind slower than the vehicle, due to the blades angles, and the fact that it is rotating.
Hi All,
This is my update on this serious experiment build.
Will it go fast enough where the rotary table is stop and the 3 wheel trike keeps going faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAdavp0OIxg
Tom
Quote from: TommeyReed on September 04, 2023, 09:40:07 PM
Hi All,
This is my update on this serious experiment build.
Will it go fast enough where the rotary table is stop and the 3 wheel trike keeps going faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAdavp0OIxg
Tom
Looking good Tom.
Can't wait to see it go.
Hi All,
First test run.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiVZZ3bwvw
Tom
Probably it will be working in the water as well.
Chief ( kolbacict)
Yes the Artemis effect has been known since boats sailed the Nile , current generating apparent wind over the sails ( not as dramatic as Artemis ,as child I learned of this "making wind with current or water flow .)
How interesting it would be if somehow we could take the 90 times denser water
And drive ( MOVE) against the current ( under water)
Apparent wind
Apparent current
Perhaps apparent current..."other flows"
Edit to add
Tom
woopy jump
Shared a vid on your channel?
Amazing person!!
Many love his open source research ( he is a sailor too with amazing advancements in sailing rig ?)
His Design for experiments in Up wind here
https://youtu.be/-O3ZqklSndM?si=F5BpHKlD0Jrw7ODJ (https://youtu.be/-O3ZqklSndM?si=F5BpHKlD0Jrw7ODJ)
Sorry to just post this here
Just hoping Woopy is doing well !
Tom's channel again
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiVZZ3bwvw (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiVZZ3bwvw)
Edit for comment below ( previously shared in this topic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk)
Quote from: ramset on September 06, 2023, 08:27:48 AM
Chief ( kolbacict)
:)
Artemis... Is it set up differently? I thought that it just boat with underwater wings.
Hi all,
New update on this fun build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL01_A2J-1c
Tom
Hi All,
Designing 3d printed propeller design and a few fixes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ7APA4DD4
Tom
Hi All,
New update and a better way to measure power input vs output.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43fjbeHc4hY
Tom
Hi All,
New update and had to order some parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zws3eCN349o
Tom
Quote from: kolbacict on September 06, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
:)
Artemis... Is it set up differently? I thought that it just boat with underwater wings.
Amazon River - Artemis Technologies - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk)
Chet means this one.
Hi All,
My parts are in and a update on this interesting build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOTtmdzr3A
Tom
Hi All,
Test run on the 25:1 gear box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOhDGbCVRC0
Tom
Hi All,
Ok, we have some real data.
This is clearly a heavy test trike, but it's a good start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQXiO_Wp-Y
Tom
Hi All,
Update on this build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnNVUbqUqoI
Tom
Hi All,
Update on the build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsoQC92pL-A
Tom