Hi!
The rod magnet will be forced to the left in this picture. The disc magnets is provided from loudspeakers where equal poles are facing each other. I have just tested this by helding a neodym magnet between these disc magnets. I have no rotating device, but hopefully the force will make the disc magnets to rotate.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lyd-interior.no%2Fdiv%2Fsimplemotor.jpg&hash=b6f5b8c06a5795ac550debfddf593b10eb8bb595)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lyd-interior.no%2Fdiv%2Fsimplemotor2.jpg&hash=6b31eb1469116d11e06c53756808a97e69fe98e8)
Hi,
Are you aware of this idea from Stefan:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/shpmm.htm
Some years have passed I have not heard any positive results, Stefan?
rgds
Gyula
Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2007, 08:43:46 AM
Hi,
Are you aware of this idea from Stefan:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/shpmm.htm
Some years have passed I have not heard any positive results, Stefan?
rgds
Gyula
Hi Gyula
This is not the same thing. However it has a few similarities. Stefans invention does not provide any force in any of the directions, as the sum of the rotating magnets total magnetic field is zero - the fields are not only running from north on one magnet to south on the other magnet, but also running from north to south on the same magnet. The sum of the field directions are therefor canceling each other out. The intention however, I believe is to make a circular magnetic field like those found around a conductor where it flows DC current. This is not possible by arranging the rotating magnets the way Stefan is doing.
I do not expect that my way to do it works, but the thaught is that presenting equal magnetic poles, by the disc magnets, to each ends of the magnet bar - where you in fact have a circular magnetic fields in each end - would force the magnet to move in only one direction.
The origin of this thaught, is how a loudspeaker motor works. With neodym magnets available, many producers make the motor system with underhung design, where the voice coil is much shorter than the hight in the magnet gap. This voice coil is moving forward and backwards in an uniform magnetic field depending on the current polarity. If the magnet gap is infenitly high, the voice coil would then move in one direction constantly when DC current is used. So if the hight of the magnet gap was a closed circular loop, this voice coil would move around forever as long as DC current flows in it. So by replacing this electromagnet - as the voice coil is - with a permanent magnet, I hoped to make a constantly moving system without any need of external power supply.
Br.
Vidar
Hi All
This may be related, I saw these years ago and could never figure out how they work. It looks like an electromagnet next to a disk that makes it spin. Dose anyone know? ???
http://www.actionlighting.com/items.asp?MainCategory=Mechanical+Flashers&Sub=Model+30
Quote from: vincent68 on February 10, 2007, 11:27:20 AM
Hi All
This may be related, I saw these years ago and could never figure out how they work. It looks like an electromagnet next to a disk that makes it spin. Dose anyone know? ???
http://www.actionlighting.com/items.asp?MainCategory=Mechanical+Flashers&Sub=Model+30
This looks like a DC-current generator, but runs as a motor instead. If you connect a conductor with one polarity to the edge of the disc, and the other polarity to the center, the disc will start spinning when a permanent and uniform magnetic field is going throuhg it. However, I believe this is not much related to the device I have presented previously in this thread.
Br.
Vidar
Thanks for the post
I understand what you mean but this unit has no contacts on the disk. The only thing rotating it is the force from the magnet.
Thanks Vince
It's possible it works just like the power"reader" in most power installations in houses. There a disc is spinning faster as the powerconsumption is rising. An alternating magnetic field is crossing a disc of aluminum, and then it rotates and activate the kW/h digits (???)
Br.
Vidar
Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2007, 08:43:46 AM
Hi,
Are you aware of this idea from Stefan:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/shpmm.htm
Some years have passed I have not heard any positive results, Stefan?
rgds
Gyula
Unfortunately it does not work this easy way.
These superimposed fields are only 2 dimensional,
but we need a 3rd dimensional component to get anything
rotating.
So we need to find a way to get more than 2 fields adding up.
If we only would have a FEMM 3D we would find a working solution pretty soon...
Regards, Stefan.
yes this contact are driven (with gear) from an contactless diskmotor (disk can be copper or aluminium.
this is exacly that what you have in your power-reder (deutsch : Stromz?hler Verbrauchsmesser.)
Pese
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 10, 2007, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: gyulasun on February 10, 2007, 08:43:46 AM
Hi,
Are you aware of this idea from Stefan:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/shpmm.htm
Some years have passed I have not heard any positive results, Stefan?
rgds
Gyula
Unfortunately it does not work this easy way.
These superimposed fields are only 2 dimensional,
but we need a 3rd dimensional component to get anything
rotating.
So we need to find a way to get more than 2 fields adding up.
If we only would have a FEMM 3D we would find a working solution pretty soon...
Regards, Stefan.
So 3 fields should do? I understand that we so far got to enforce the 3rd dimention by adding external power... :-\
I understand that the device you're quoting never will work, but I don't understand why the device in the initial contribution in this thread shouldn't - is it still 2 dimentional, I understand it won't work. Anyway, one have to learn the hard way - building the device and check it out :)
I'm quite convinced that I have to make a "virtual magnetic pole" in the center of the vertical magnet in the initial drawing, because the magnetic fields from the disc magnets are forced away from each other causing the device to misfunction.
I have now however tried the device just by fastening the bar magnet to a card board just to see if it is pushing in the desired direction - which it seems to do. If it works as a rotating device, I'll probably find out :)
I'm quite new here: What is FEMM 3D?
Br.
Vidar
Finite Element Method Magnetics
Quote from: Low-Q on February 10, 2007, 05:23:00 PM
I'm quite new here: What is FEMM 3D?
Br.
Vidar
Hi Vidar,
Thanks for your previous answer, and your idea is different from that of Stefan indeed, I agree. Unfortunately, these arrangements in 3D are difficult to judge in one's head whether they work or not.
Here would come into the picture some magnetic simulator software programs like FEMM. Unfortunataly, there is no FEMM 3D but 2D.
As Aerny wrote it is Finite Element Method Magnetics and it is freely downloadable from this site:
http://femm.foster-miller.net/wiki/HomePage
The true 3D magnetic simulator programs are very, very expensive (like Maxwell from Ansoft, for instance (www.ansoft.com) and there some others from different firms too.
Regards
Gyula
Thanks for your reply :) I will try to use FEMM 2D then and imaging the 3rd dimention...
Br.
Vidar
Here in lies a very hard problem. You cant sim a 3d world in 2d. It seems that many will still try no matter how you tell them. Then you hear how the simulation doesn't agree with the stated actuality. Only on a bench will you be able to tell the truth to the matter. Sim software is great as long as it is used in the constraints that it was programmed with. If you work in 3d, then sim in 3d.
sugra