Attach a Sterling engine to the exhaust side of a conventional gas engine reclaiming some heat to do work.
How about an induction heater and a stirling motor?
ummm ok
Quote from: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 02:17:47 PM
Attach a Sterling engine to the exhaust side of a conventional gas engine reclaiming some heat to do work.
Yes it's crazy enough for it to work. :o 8)
How about multipole pistons in the gas engine with induction coils wound around the sleeve's? as each piston does it's stroke it excites the induction coils and produces a voltage that can be stored or used on demand as long as the engine is running.
or run a tesla mechanical oscillator off the engine vacuum -
steady ac at the output - very little power to keep running
Ok now this is getting crazy. A gas powered engine with induction sleeves, providing some heat for the sterling engine assisted by an induction heater, fitted with a tesla mechanical oscillator to the gas engine via intake manifold vacuum.
LOL! If that isn't OU I don't know what is. ???
Damn thing will be a hovercraft when we are done with it...LOL!
Quote from: ring_theory on February 25, 2007, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 02:17:47 PM
Attach a Sterling engine to the exhaust side of a conventional gas engine reclaiming some heat to do work.
Yes it's crazy enough for it to work. :o 8)
How about multipole pistons in the gas engine with induction coils wound around the sleeve's? as each piston does it's stroke it excites the induction coils and produces a voltage that can be stored or used on demand as long as the engine is running.
Actually those are both good pretty good ideas, the sterling and the piston coils if there was a way to keep the magnets,sleeves and coils cool at the same time. It would allow you to get rid of the alternator and run the aux. stuff off of the sterling.. would increase your gas mileage quite a bit if you cold get 20-30 hp out of the sterling. ac pumps , air pump, steering pumps etc all rob gas mileage.. might actually bring the efficiency of an ic engine up to something worthwhile.
The technology which is coming forward to us, as you notice ;-)
asi about understanding it another way, because
We have to find out the causation or causer of these things not the result!!
the idea is not that bad, the only problem is the cost of such device, a little sterling engine cost 250$ (metal). Just imagine one that "fit" to your car. lol will cost more then the car himseft! :)
but the big company like ford, chrysler, toyota would be able to make one at cheap price but why they don't do it, oil crap bush stuffs probably...
Quote from: fleebell on March 05, 2007, 07:27:04 AM
Quote from: ring_theory on February 25, 2007, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 02:17:47 PM
Attach a Sterling engine to the exhaust side of a conventional gas engine reclaiming some heat to do work.
Yes it's crazy enough for it to work. :o 8)
How about multipole pistons in the gas engine with induction coils wound around the sleeve's? as each piston does it's stroke it excites the induction coils and produces a voltage that can be stored or used on demand as long as the engine is running.
Actually those are both good pretty good ideas, the sterling and the piston coils if there was a way to keep the magnets,sleeves and coils cool at the same time. It would allow you to get rid of the alternator and run the aux. stuff off of the sterling.. would increase your gas mileage quite a bit if you cold get 20-30 hp out of the sterling. ac pumps , air pump, steering pumps etc all rob gas mileage.. might actually bring the efficiency of an ic engine up to something worthwhile.
Actually the temp of multipole pistons wouldn't be a problem. the sleeves would have to be non conductive to meet "ideal" coil conditions, and at the moment they are commonly steel which is conductive. Yes mankind has been using the iron core wound type of induction coil, and the steel sleeve would transfer the fields as the multipole pistons do their stroke. It is less efficient with the iron core than without the iron core in a multipole configuration where the flux directly excites the induction coils (no back emf). A non magnetic, non magnetic shielding, non conductive, and high heat material would have to be used for the sleeve. As for the temp of the induction coils themselfs. I'm just not sure what would be an acceptable tolerance. i do know that the temp of the coolant of a typical gas engine ranges between 185 and 250 deg f at normal operating tempature. However the sleeve will exceed that.
As with any newly founded technology or old technology in a new application, research and development must be done in adapting the technology. Yes it would effectively eliminate the alternator. however it could very well take the remaining burdon off of the gas/sterling engine as far as powering the air conditioning compressor, power steering, air pump, water pump etc. By placing it on the battery or battery bank.
i think this technologies (http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm) will be more simple to implement :)
Quote from: TheOne on March 05, 2007, 11:24:22 PM
i think this technologies (http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm) will be more simple to implement :)
I agree! However we are still dealing with Gas and diesel engines that are costly in the fuel consumtion department. I see that there are other applications and i probably could think of a few more. However there is a limitation like solor panels they are useless at night. this crazy engine thing is nothing more than a fancy boat anchor when it's not running.
We need to think self renewing, or a combination of technologies that suit eacothers needs.
Never said it was a gasoline engine it could be hydrogen. It could be anything . The point here is reclaiming heat to do work.
OOPS my bad, just saw the link to the diesel truck thing
Heat is the by-product of the transformation of energy. the more efficient the transformation, the less heat is generated by the transformation.
Quote from: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 03:08:58 PM
The point here is reclaiming heat to do work.
Yes, and it is a prime example of that. The sterling engine and the HZ-14 are prime examples of how to achieve it.
Quotei think this technologies (http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm) will be more simple to implement Smiley
If you read the spec sheet on their technology, the modules are 4.5% efficiency. 95% of the heat is doing nothing!
Re:the Sterling engine cost: In the experimental phase, yes, it's pretty expensive. Specialty manufacturers are the only providers, like the German machinists, and they put out a beautiful product. Imagine, however, contracting with a company to build & ship quantity product, to be installed in your neighborhood at the shop you own as a retrofit to trucks and cars. A company that rebuilds auto air conditioners might be very interested in converting part of their assembly lines over to Sterling engine manufacturer, either for some or all of the machine.
Somebody build a lawnmower engine based on this idea. Or an little RC fuel car engine.
I don"t have the time right now. It might be a cool little project for someone?
Just Build It
IronHead
Hi everyone,
Just to let you know I checked with a stirling engine company here is US. The cost he quotes me was $45K/unit. This is a engine designed by Japanese but made in India.
See link:
http://www.stirling-tech.com/stirlingengine.htm
Quote from: dingbat on March 07, 2007, 07:38:32 AM
Quotei think this technologies (http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm) will be more simple to implement Smiley
If you read the spec sheet on their technology, the modules are 4.5% efficiency. 95% of the heat is doing nothing!
But that's still 4.5% that's being returned isn't it? It's still less fuel being burned. Like everything else if the demand got big enough they would get more efficient and module prices would come down some too and it would get cheaper to install them on a lot more engines etc..... Every little bit returned is that much less fuel used and eventually it will get to the point that they be cheap enough to pay for themselves within a reasonable period of time. Solar cells take a long time for payback too but that doesn't stop them from being used. If you don't have grid power available anything is better than nothing and anything device that will save fuel is a good thing no matter what your burning to create the heat.
I don't know if it's already mentioned, but it should be possible to use the heat from the manifold to heat water. This makes compressed steam which activates a turbine with a generator on it. The generator can also be a device directly connected to the drive gear, just to utilize the heat to add forward motion.
As we know that a regular gasoline engine have approx 20% efficiency - 80% is heat. This heat should absolutely do some work if you fill up a second tank with water, and let the manifold heat it up.
Br.
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on March 14, 2007, 06:49:31 PM
I don't know if it's already mentioned, but it should be possible to use the heat from the manifold to heat water. This makes compressed steam which activates a turbine with a generator on it. The generator can also be a device directly connected to the drive gear, just to utilize the heat to add forward motion.
As we know that a regular gasoline engine have approx 20% efficiency - 80% is heat. This heat should absolutely do some work if you fill up a second tank with water, and let the manifold heat it up.
Br.
Vidar
very nice, this just keeps getting crazier and crazier hehehe :D
peace
add a geothermal system to it :)
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 23, 2007, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on March 14, 2007, 06:49:31 PM
I don't know if it's already mentioned, but it should be possible to use the heat from the manifold to heat water. This makes compressed steam which activates a turbine with a generator on it. The generator can also be a device directly connected to the drive gear, just to utilize the heat to add forward motion.
As we know that a regular gasoline engine have approx 20% efficiency - 80% is heat. This heat should absolutely do some work if you fill up a second tank with water, and let the manifold heat it up.
Br.
Vidar
very nice, this just keeps getting crazier and crazier hehehe :D
peace
Or make a steam engine out of it is even better :) With no cooling of the engine other than making a steam engine to run, should by itself cool down the engine. The greater load to the engine, the greater work the steam engine will do. In sum we have a less load dependent engine as it in fact gets stronger and more efficient as the load is greater. I believe this will save lots of gasoline. I did read a suggestion today that gasoline based cars might be illegal by 2015...maybe it's worth trying?
;)
Br.
Vidar
wouldn't the excess weight be a problem? hope not too much of a problem. unless you're using light weight materials for your heat engine.
peace
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 24, 2007, 02:32:57 AM
wouldn't the excess weight be a problem? hope not too much of a problem. unless you're using light weight materials for your heat engine.
peace
Weight should not be a problem. However it must weigh something, but light materials are quite easy to get cheap - aluminum or magnesium, maybe even ceramic materials can be used. A steam engine directly connected to the engine should not be hard to run. The steam will eventually cool down, and run into a separate tank. An indicator in the car cabin will tell when it's time to refill.
Or to enhance the efficiency of the steam engine, a screw compressor should be ran by the steam. Only rotating parts, and no piston movements.
What about that?
Br.
Vidar
weird ... on www.keelyNet.com today
05/24/07 - Efficient, Clean, high power Steam engine
KeelyNetBruce Crower has spent a lifetime eking more power out of every drop of fuel to make cars go faster. Now he's using the same approach to make them go farther, with a radical six-stroke engine that tops off the familiar four-stroke internal-combustion process with two extra strokes of old-fashioned steam power. A typical engine wastes three quarters of its energy as heat. Crower's prototype, the single-cylinder diesel eight-horsepower Steam-o-Lene engine, uses that heat to make steam and recapture some of the lost energy. It runs like a conventional four-stroke combustion engine through each of the typical up-and-down movements of the piston (intake, compression, power or combustion, exhaust). But just as the engine finishes its fourth stroke, water squirts into the cylinder, hitting surfaces as hot as 1,500?F. The water immediately evaporates into steam, generating a 1,600-fold expansion in volume and driving the piston down to create an additional power stroke. The upward sixth stroke exhausts the steam to a condenser, where it is recycled into injection water. Crower calculates that the Steam-o-Lene boosts the work it gets from a gallon of gas by 40 percent over conventional engines. Diesels, which are already more efficient, might get another 5 percent. And his engine does it with hardware that already exists, so there's no waiting for technologies to mature, as with electric cars or fuel cells.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 24, 2007, 02:32:57 AM
wouldn't the excess weight be a problem? hope not too much of a problem. unless you're using light weight materials for your heat engine.
peace
If we can agree that a steam engine works, with all its weight - it is even running big trains, we can agree that the steam engine in the car also will do work. What we are doing is just to encrease the gasoline powered motors power, not making an OU motor. It is not automaticly more than 100% efficient because of the steam engine, but maybe it's possible to encrease from 20-30% to maybe 80%... In addition a electric generator is used to charge a battery when the car is breaking. The excess energy can be used to run the generator when the car is accelerating - the Toyota (or is it Honda) Prius is using this technology already. Braking the cars speed is an direct loss of energy. This energy loss is instead used to power the car on demand.
So, then we have a steam engine, gasoline engine, and an electric motor in one, utilizing almost all thinkable losses.
Br.
Vidar
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AifGfayZHzc
More like this high speed high power
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PO1X95LwlBM
and
http://youtube.com/watch?v=umlhurVfPF8&mode
Now imagine this the size of a four cylinder car engine. Not as heavy though as we would not be holding back explosive energy. Attach to the exhaust side and you have the idea..
Also the drawing here has more effective cooling concepts for the cold side of the Stirling . The hot side would be much hotter than these candles used in these videos as well. What is the exhaust temp at the head ? about 1200F.
I think in these conditions a very powerful Stirling could be built to use more of the gasoline or hydrogen engine's energy.
Ok yeah he stopped it with his finger , so lets look at others this size?
I think it cost so much to build because it is made to be pretty and brass.
I can stop a RC Cox .029 Nitromethane engine with my finger and it is about the same size as one of those cylinders on that Stirling. But what If you scale it up?
and again here we would be tripling the heat put to the thing.
Hmmm But the steam idea is even better..
Now this is power ..
http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/rc_steam_hauler/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-PtJ2F5Km4
RC engine ,maybe I will mock something up on a small scale in the future.
how about attaching a drinking bird?!?! :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yk71GY02diY
:)i really liked the drinking bird idea. we'll put it in the backdeck to balance the weight from all the other add-ons. have to put a coil on its beak and one around the cup to generatate some extra voltage for the battery!
saw an article several years back about an engineering student from I think Penn State who had designed a steam conversion for typical automotive engines. concept was simple and used very little in the way of add-on hardware. his design was based on using superheated steam produced by a very small gasoline fired boiler.
I like a hydrogen fired design better. Like the guy with the H2 cutting torch sized flame.
I cant remember the student's his name. I'm not entirely sure of the university.