agin verry simple just came up with this just right now 308 pm my time april 2 2007
takes a small spinning unit and turns a larger 1 like a wind turbine and it it turns 2 larg generators that the turbine could not spin
better explanation soon when i have time also a drawing
the innovation station team!
I will gently ask you to post explanations to your ideas in the first place. Im getting so damn curious, so I can't wait ;D
Br.
Mr. Curiousum Extremus
So is this basicaly using repelling magnets as gears so that the motor doesn't have to use as much work to get them to turn? ???
hope
sounds like you have it all figured out do i still need to draw
simple im sure it would reduce the work on the turning device
also you could turn many things from 1 spinning gear all at the same time with verry little work on whatever is turning it
i will still draw some time soon
is
Sounds like a good idea man. With Dissimilar poles attracting each other as the gears move, that would keep it moving. It seems like you have an idea for a Perpetual Motion Machine, as little would be required to keep it moving.
Don't forget: Force = counterforce
;)
Br.
Vidar
I'm no mechanical or electrical engineer, but i do know that the repulsion forces are there too. is that what you meant? with like poles repelling like? It seems like a good idea IMHO, but that is just that, my opinion.
ok lets think of gears ther are around 95 percent efficient now add magnets to that without phyisical contact between the gears
what would the effiecency be?
ou posibaly
pardon all my spelling mistakes
truth be told i never finished high school but
does that make me stupid?
it is in my blood what can i say
my biggest problem right now is money i have none
i am poor
but that alone does not make me stupid
on my team there is me my brother a friend who is a cnc programer a good friend from overunity that goes by the name of dirt that is all im in canada and i must return to work verry soon i have a construction company that i started last year so mabe this year will be better
if some people are intrested in joining my team then pm me or email me and we will see what we can do
i will be thinking as i like to do that
william
Hi IS
Very interesting thought. I have spent 30 years in gearing and bearing stuff. You are suggesting a oil free gearbox with much higher efficenency. Also remember you can still achieve a ratio up or down ie primary mag/gear with 10 teeth/mags driving a 60 tooth/mag/gear 1/6 th the speed 6x the torque. Also visa versa 60 driving a 10 6x the speed 1/6 th the torque.
Interesting for adusting needed speeds etc. I'll play with this one a bit.
Thanks
Jon
exacily i will be drawing soon but im so busy replying to everything as well im involved in many many projects
please work on it and post your thoughts
agin thanks for your input
william
A mechanical gear have loss. I often say that everything which makes noise or sound when running, have some kind of loss. Magnetic drive gears should be no exception. They will sooner or later have a mechanical impact when the load is too great. But I like the thought as you replace grease with open space forced by magnets, but even if the loss is zero, you will not have an OU. Something must keep the drive gears running when they are loaded. From where are you going to provide this energy without external power source?
Keep up. No one here is stupid.
Br.
Vidar
i agree on the loss thing but i must leave this topic alone for a bit because of the strain on my brain but i will keep thinking on the subject as more thought come into view i will post them as well a my drawings
thank you vidar for all you have said i must digest it now
is
I also think that ou might not be achieved, but effeciency will be greatly improved. Maybe this could aid future ou devices?
well we will have to build and see
is
Quote from: HopeForHumanity on April 04, 2007, 12:50:53 AM
I also think that ou might not be achieved, but effeciency will be greatly improved. Maybe this could aid future ou devices?
In addition, one must have in mind that just OU, or a 100% effective device, will not be able to do extended work others than making itself running. To use magnetic drive gears to save 5%, does not really matter if the goal is to make a device that can produce maybe 200%. Then you have 95% extra versus 100% extra energy.
However, and maybe more important, magnetic drive gears have more benifits than just low loss: Literally no wear and tear, and that is sure a major benifit :)
Br.
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on April 04, 2007, 02:51:30 AM
However, and maybe more important, magnetic drive gears have more benifits than just low loss: Literally no wear and tear, and that is sure a major benifit :)
One of us is really going to build one of these things to see if they work as described. Have it driving something small at first to see if it would work. Then get progressively larger until we find the limit.
Here is my thoughts about the magnetic drive gears:
EDIT: Maybe another magnet arrangement will be better, as the original setup does not provide enough repelling forces.
That looks like a good idea, but what I was thinking of was a lot different. Everyone has to be able to have their own ideas, that's what makes this site work. ;)
looking good but i was thinking a little diffrent too but put her all out so we can build the best 1 's
is
The Program that I use to make my technical drawings (Deltacad), does not make it easy to make drawings of that sort. Most of the drawings I like to draw using are like the one in the post http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2128.msg26430.html#msg26430 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2128.msg26430.html#msg26430). I took classes in high school that dealt with CAD drawings, but it has been a long time since I was in high school. Trying to use Deltacad makes my pictures come out clunky looking.
use corel draw 12 i have that and it works great and it is easy to use i have the full ver
is
Quote from: innovation_station on April 04, 2007, 10:26:45 PM
use corel draw 12 i have that and it works great and it is easy to use i have the full ver
is
How much was it? I know I can't buy it right now, 'cause money is a little hard for me to come by. I may have to find somewhere to download it, because I know of a few places where I might be able to find it to download.
i finaly got around to the drawing it is a simple 1 but it is a start on my thoughts about the gears hear is the pic
Quote from: dukenukem on April 04, 2007, 10:08:56 PM
The Program that I use to make my technical drawings (Deltacad), does not make it easy to make drawings of that sort. Most of the drawings I like to draw using are like the one in the post http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2128.msg26430.html#msg26430 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2128.msg26430.html#msg26430). I took classes in high school that dealt with CAD drawings, but it has been a long time since I was in high school. Trying to use Deltacad makes my pictures come out clunky looking.
Google ScetchUp do the job nicely for me :)
Br.
Vidar
:)
I've tinkered a little bit with gimp a little bit back when i had my computer running Linux. what is the URL to download it? I'll try it to see if it will help me draw them more difficult drawings any better
:)
Quote from: innovation_station on April 05, 2007, 09:58:45 AM
i finaly got around to the drawing it is a simple 1 but it is a start on my thoughts about the gears hear is the pic
These gears was quite different than I thought. So you're using several magnets which is sync'ed and attracting each other. These type of drive gear will have a sticky spot at each magnet. These sticky spots will make the gear going not so smooth, and probably be worse than regular drive gears as each sticky spot prevent the gear to rotate. However the attraction right before the magnets are at the closest might be enough counter force to make the gears rotate quite frictionless, but again you have an attraction where the magnets are leaving each other - probably the conclution is a gear that will stop due to sticky spots...
My idea which is using a constant repelling system might go smoother, less complex, and probably without sticky spots. I haven't tried, so I really don't know what is best.
Br.
Vidar
i was thinking of using the magnets to repel not to attract each other
but there so many ways to do this it is still much in thought
is
I don't know very much in this stuff, but how much less force would it take to spin the gears if you had an imaginary set of forces, than it would with the same forces but excluding magnetism? ???
Quote from: innovation_station on April 07, 2007, 02:49:59 PM
i was thinking of using the magnets to repel not to attract each other
but there so many ways to do this it is still much in thought
is
Repel configuration will have its sticky point where two magnets on each gear are in same position. The gear will be prevented to rotate when one magnet on each gear are approaching each other. I believe however you have thought further: The gears will probably align so the magnets are allways at the farmost position to each other; The magnets will approach each other in the same way as a zipper works. In fact, and after further thinking, it will act the same way as my suggestion earlier in this thread. So our ideas are not so unfamiliar after all :)
Br.
Vidar
I've tried what your doing a while back with a small hawt windmill and can give you my results if it helps any.
Toothed gear with magnets.
positive side:
-the gears with teeth as the magnetic poles do work to some extent and does reduce your friction wear when first starting. (I used north -><- north)
-very quiet when running
negative side:
-the teeth will hold all the tiny worn off bits and cause odd wear patterns.
-unless the magnets are extremely powerful though , a high running torque will overcome the magnetic force and the gears will end up with metal to metal contact anyway so you will still need some oil or grease there.
Starting is where you get most of the wear in any gear system. There is normally an oil film that prevents contact between the teeth once turning in most systems.
gears of magnets only
positive side:
- no metal to metal mechanical connection and silent running
- good for a steady input speed power source
negative side:
- does not seem to transmit torque well unless you use many magnets (mine wouldn't anyway - I started with 6 in each row and ended up with 24 - stopped at that point , no more room for magnets in the 3" diameter plastic pieces I was using - I was using a 1 / 1 gear ratio
- doesn't do well when input speed changes quickly - tends to break free and won't magnetically lock back up until the driver stops or almost stops.
- tends to surge until it gets turning unless you use a lot of magnets
I found that the straight magnet gears (at least the ones I made to try out the idea) just are not worth the trouble for use with a windmill. There is just too much cogging and they would break loose too easily. (Understand, this may have just been a bad design on my part too but I used three rows of magnets in each gear and they were offset to prevent cogging as much as possible) I tried attraction and repulsion modes and the repulsion mode worked better. It didn't cog as much.
The magnets with the teeth worked better (they couldn't break loose) but not enough to justify having to clean the metal trash they somehow managed to attract all the time off them. I eventually gave the idea up and used nylon gears. Almost as quiet and a little grease goes a long way with that type.
thank you fleebell for you input
i have given this idea much thought lately
i have a metting comming up with the nrcc
the nrcc= natonal reserch councel of canada
they are intrested in my turbine and the magnetic drive gears that was all they were told about so far so we will see how that goes
about the magnetic gears i was thinking now more like a few diffrent discs of magnets aranged in a neat way this can work simlar to the searl generator the key to this is to have the magnets spaced properly so they always want to repell no matter how they rest i will draw a pic of some of my newest thoughts on the gears soon i will be building thease too there are so many diffrent ways one could build thease gears but im sure efficienty can be increased from what it is now
basicly all the magnetic gears are is a magnet motor with a sticky spot so you use the wind to get over the sticky spot in the wind turbine style
or an electric motor well ......... the sky is not even the limit with this
ist
You just might be onto a much better idea there, my attempts worked but not well, I hadn't even thought about doing it the way you described. I was more or less trying to copy and convert a commercial type motor connector link and obviously had the wrong type magnets and wrong configuration to do it with according to my end results. Good luck with your project, sometimes a simple configuration change can make all the difference.
Lee
lee i agree
the way im looking at it is like this
if you can make the magnets do most of the work your input has decreaced and if you can beat friction you will have no loss so gears now are 95% efficient so take most of the input away make the magnets do the work and have no friction from its operation sounds like overunity to me
ist
A pulley system might be efficient too, as long as the load isn't too great. Suggestions?
well pullies ara less efficient than gears but some of the belt designs are verry efficient no drag is better no contact is best try to get rid of friction all togather for best performance was my idea use strong neos on drive and weeker on load that way it will never fight with the drive gear it will allways be forced by the drive gear
is
;D
@innovation Station
Check this out, it's been around for a while, but I have yet to see all but 1 replication attempt. It seems to me that if you have good bearings to eliminate as much drag as possible & some strong Neo magnets, I think it would work.
Maybe it will give you some ideas, wait for the animation to load.
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/JanPCack.htm (http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/JanPCack.htm)
-rapttor
@ raptor i like that link
i think the geas will work well as well but it will all depend on how they are layed out and how many discs of magnets are involved the only thing i dont like about the anamiation you posted was that there was physical contact thus friction friction must be cancled out or almost none for this to run in a overunity state now supose your drive gear was 2 discs of magnets and in between those 2 discs is another disc the disc between the 2 is the geared up or down output but we have even push from each disc to the center 1 and they all aline at the same spot and it is a sticky spot all we need to do is push it for a fraction of a second to overcome the sticky spot the gears will fly back around to the sticky spot and repeat the process or perhaps we should use 3 sticky spots and 3 pluses what ever the combo with the right layout it will work verry well i am almost beond any dubt!!!!
ist