Hi All,
I just went to:
www.newsourceofenergy.com
(old website:
www.newenergymachine.com )
and saw there their new video.
As it was a bit dark and also 54 MB to download,
I just put it through Virtualdub editor and converted it to
a Gamma level enhanced and sharpened DIVX AVI movie.
Here is the result in 4 Mbytes size enclosed.
You need the newer free www.divx.com
codec to watch it.
Looks amazing.
The first wheel , which seems really to accelerate.
Seems it really generates a lot of torque !
The guy is loosening the brake on the machine, gives it a little
push and the rotor accelerates !
I hope we can invite the inventor to come over here and
tell us about his design.
Regards, Stefan.
This mashine looks quite powerfull.
I also wrote to the inventor and ask him to show up here.
A few month ago i had a print in my hands,that shows a gravity device
like in the Video.
A big mass was sliding on a rod to de end of the arm and was driven by airpressure
to the point of imbalance.After about the halve revolution the mass moved to the other opposite side to do work on the next halve revolution and so on.
The claim was,that the Gravity provides more Power,as it needs to produce airpressure
to keep the prossedure running.
Helmut
Hi all. I am the owner of the new machine and I will tell you a bit about it.
As you know it works the same as the unbalanced wheel. The trick is to
get the weight back to recycle it. There are 3 procedures I have used to do this.
The air cylinders I use as a shock absorber, similar to that in a car and it also stores
a bit of energy that locks the 2 weights together almost at the bottom. A set of springs are also at the end of the rotating wheel to absorb the impact of the weights.
It trips a leaver that activates a pin that acts as a pushrod to retune the weights.
When the weights are attached they only need to be returned 1/2 the distance then
centrifical force takes over and then they start to accelerate to the other end. The closer to the half way point the 2 weights get the less energy in needs to move it.
Once the weights are past the ballance point they accelerate and generate many times their weight that creats the the energy needed. The faster rotation the larger the force. With out the springs and shock absorber it would destroy itself.
Hope this will help, and I am glad to share it with you.
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - weight this end
()
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - ballanced
()
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - weight accelerate
()
hey bobmary,
nice machine!!! thanks for coming over here and sharing. your machine looks like it has some power. have you checked it? what kind of torque can you produce with a model the size of the one in the video? can you share details about the construction? i would certainly like to duplicate this.
lol
sam
Hi Bob
Excellent work, is there any other videos showing it close up, do you plan to release build details?
Would not like to get smacked over the head with that thing LOL!
Just went to the site but it seems closed at the moment :(
Regards
Sean.
Hi Bob,
many thanks for coming over here and share some details !
Sounds great !
Do you use any external power input , like pumped air
or something like this to start it up ?
Will you share more details with the public and make it
open source or do you plan to patent (hopefully not) it ?
Maybe you could invite a few guys from our forum over here
to come to you and visit the machine and take new videos
which could be posted over here ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
this motor seam very powerfull to even kill someone :)
putting magnet in the rotor and coil all around would create a massive amount of power!!
do you plan to release some kind of instruction how to build one?
Quote from: hartiberlin on May 11, 2007, 10:52:19 AM
Hi Bob,
many thanks for coming over here and share some details !
Sounds great !
Do you use any external power input , like pumped air
or something like this to start it up ?
Will you share more details with the public and make it
open source or do you plan to patent (hopefully not) it ?
Maybe you could invite a few guys from our forum over here
to come to you and visit the machine and take new videos
which could be posted over here ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
The machine is totaly independent. It requires no external power.
Bob
Hello Bob
Nice to see you here and welcome.The door is open wide. Most of us, share there Ideas
as you do.
Thanks for that.
In the Video i see the hughe Power working on the Support.This makes me think,that it might be helpfull to build the Mass like a bullet and led them travel inside a heavy Pipe from Iron.The End of the Pipe should be closed,so that the Air between the bullet and the end of the pipe is working as the shock absorber.The Air will be compressed at the south hemisphere and might be used tu support the revolving prossedure.
What do you think of that?
Helmut
nice going Bob 8)
Hi Bob,
Where is your machine located? I'd like to visit and see it working, if that's OK with you. Is it possible to build a working tabletop model?
Bob,
Very exciting stuff!
Would it be possible to share some plans, diagrams, detailed photos?
Thanks
That does look dangerous! Great work Bob.
(thanks for the video conversion Stefan)
The working model will be totally enclosed.
Thanks.....Bob
Bob,
Your invention looked like it was slowing down as the spring you were winding up became unwound.
Nice machine. Lots of vibration, etc. ;)
there is no springs that are wound. I am loosening the disk brake that stops it when needed.
Thanks bob
Bob, with this device, is this is possible to build a smaller one using toy, lets say using some lego or others king of toy, with pneumatic ?
Also do you plan to release some kind of plan for replication?
Thanks
Bob,
exciting stuff! It might be wise to do a video with it working for 4 or 5 minutes. Just so we can see that it doesn't slow down. I know the disc brake will heat up a little, and that there is strain on the supports, but I'm sure it would be able to cope.
That would silence the critics just a little more and give you a little more credibility.
You may have something amazing here, however you must understand that a hydraulically powered device (externally powered) using air pressure (or oils) could be made to look the same way yours does, that is, I could make a similar device to yours that is NOT gravity powered. I wish you luck.
D
Bob,
I hope you understand Open Source and how we work around here.
peace.
Quote from: bobmary on May 11, 2007, 09:39:25 AM
When the weights are attached they only need to be returned 1/2 the distance then
centrifical force takes over and then they start to accelerate to the other end.
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - weight this end
()
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - ballanced
()
<====== Weight--------------------Weight - weight accelerate
()
Hi Bob,
what is the trick to bring back the weight this 1/2 distance ?
As the wheel is constantly turning, it also has to overcome the centrigugal force
so this is not clear to me, how this should work without
using external energy ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
And so we wait :) with bated/baited breath
Hi Bob .. Your machine certainly generates a level of excitement in this community.
I have the same question as Stefan of course, which you may or may not want to elaborate on further ??
I am particularly interested in what you want to achieve from here on i.e. your goals ? It may be a mix of altruist ideals & revenue generation or neither ? Can you give us a broad outline of the steps you see yourself taking from here ?
I note you have a web site under construction which talks about purchasing one of your units for less than half the price of a small windmill ? When will units or plans be available for sale, in your estimation, & at what cost for units or plans [$US] ?
Thanks in advance Bob.
Why does the hydraulic 'unit' at the front of the video (foreground) shake so much yet the rest of the room's bits and pieces don't seem to shake? I assume the gravity motor and this 'unit' are somehow linked. And why is this unit blocking some of our view?
Also IF there are hydraulics attached, and the device is rotating, how do you connect the hydraulics to it?
I can see a slider moving along the motor's shaft but not much else I can discern.
If there is such a long axis where the disc brake is, it would be easy to connect a spring or motor to make it spin.
The video is a bit strange too. If I would have made it I would have made an announcement at the beginning looking into the camera, and I would be looking pretty excited too!
More questions than answers. It may be genuine. We just don't know yet.
I got an email from Bob saying,
that he has different machines and all are working.
He has not yet decided what to do with it yet.
Unfortunately somebody in his family has passed away, so he is
currently pretty busy with other things.
Please be patient.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanks Stefan,
my condolences to him.
D
The cylinder and spheres experiment produces energy by using centrifugal and centripetal forces to transfer the momentum of a larger spinning object into two smaller spheres. So I am not surprised that an energy producing overbalanced wheel arrangement can be made. What surprises me is that it could be done with only one wheel. I thought you would need one wheel to work as an Attwood?s machine to produce momentum, and that wheel geared with another wheel to work as a cylinder and spheres experiment to make energy in the horizontal plane.
This seems like and incredible timing problem to me, and my question would be, at what angle of your vertical wheel do you release your mass so that it might transfer momentum conservation into kinetic energy production?
My computer can not play videos, so I only have the one photo and descriptions other have given.
I also send condolences.
My condolences to Bob.
For those who only have a slow computer:
The video is now also at www.youtube.com and video.google.com
Search there for
free energy bessler
and you will find it.
Regards, Stefan.
Bob
my condolences go to you.
Helmut
Here are the direct links to this video on youtube and google:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lD_65ggChs
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-8108725405074952019
So people with slower PCs and installed Macromedia/Adobe Flash
can still view it.
Regards, Stefan.
This device needs to be explained in more detail if it is to be believable. Also an output needs to be used so the device can do work. A low friction wheel can spin for a long time if it not doing work.
Hi,
His website is offline now, says under construction, back in a few days.
Hopefully that means we get to see some more...
Robert
Now the website says it has been "taken down"
http://www.newenergymachine.com/
"Web site was requested to be taken down"
ok?
Too late, I saw how it works so the patent is void.
Don't believe me? I'll send you a schematic.
Quote from: DrWhat on May 20, 2007, 06:41:48 AM
Too late, I saw how it works so the patent is void.
Don't believe me? I'll send you a schematic.
post it all here :) or start a new thread :)
peace
I don't really! I just like to create controversy!!
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 20, 2007, 02:43:25 AM
"my parents say that every government is crooked and they're greedy, ovcouce my family is native canadian"
Some Minutes ago i wrote a email to bob and ask about him.
Hopefully i can get a reply or else some reaktion.
And yust in case,that he is not able to replay the questions and stay away,
we can diskuss our own drawings and infos about the matter.
Than the tread will stay alive and the Three he plants can grow up
Helmut
Any replies back?
I really wish to know how this works in more detail.
Is it just me, or does it look like there's some type of compressor behind and to the right of what looks like some kind of valve assembly in the front? (In the video)
I don't want to create a "Fake versus Real" war here, but perhaps someone could shed some light on the potential use of that apparatus.
Hi Dyamios,
I'm also very intersted in this machine. I've been watching his original video about 20 times in super slow motion. I've seen some things, but as it is taken from the side it is inmpossible to determine if it is fake or not.
What i could see is that there are two sliding weights on the arms. it looks like the wieghts are attached by a seperate bar. The movement of this bar (and the weights) is controlled by thwo pistons which are visible on the arms.
This is all pretty clear to me.
The problem is that you can't see anything from the mechanism (lever, as the inventor hinted at) that bring the weigth back.
I think as long as there isn't any more info from the inventor it is impossible to get any further with this.....
Just consider this:
First a family member died.....
Then the website says under construction, back in a few days
and now it says it had to be taken down
All this within a few days? Weird or what?
Robert
Ah, I see. Forgot about the death, my condolences.
It is rather strange how those two events (the death and the website) had occurred at close intervals. The conspiracy-ist side of me leads me to believe it was some type of "black"-operation, while I also have to take into account regular coincidences.
I still can't figure out why someone would "request" the website to be taken down. And even if there was a request, I don't understand why a webmaster would comply (unless there are threats involved).
I suppose we shall see.
don't waist your time on non open sourced projects...really, it is a waist of time guys.
;)
peace
Well if you function by that notion then rarely does anything gets accomplished. Don't get me wrong about open sourcing, I love it, but many of the best modern and past innovations were brought about by greed and want (particularly of money).
Ironic as it may be, it is true.
Now what we must do is make a society in which open sourcing is conducive to individual and holistic advancement of a society. We must abdicate our greed and want for the betterment of humanity, but until this occurs, we will be stuck in our current drive for wealth.
The first step we must take is to liberate the information held by those in power or by those who desire wealth and redistribute it to ALL of humanity, not to one country, not to one coalition, not to one person, but to everyone. This will create an even playing field for all of humanity to develop in a positive direction, not just a section of it.
Knowledge is a divine right, and when it is kept at an imbalance we are left with a spiritually dysfunctional society, driving further greed and want.
Trying to reinvent the wheel is a futile and needless expedition. If knowledge exists, it must be liberated.
Cheers!
That's right, if you can't control knowledge of such great power you should release it to everyone... And you CAN'T control such knowledge since it disbalances government. The conclusion is simple: if you are not giving perpetual motion device plans to everyone, you'll be at a danger. In fact, patent right is a good mechanism of hiding unwanted innovations from society. While you are waiting for your pantent, government is pretty sure you have not shared your ideas with others (why would you patent it otherwise?) - and that's the right time for the government to do something to the inventor so that the idea is not publicly implemented.
That's right!
I just called the inventor?s home and only his nephew was there
and told me, that the inventor had a car accident and is still in hospital
and will be probably back next week.
So until then we will not get any new informations, cause the nephew did
not know anything about the machine...
I wished best luck for his health and that he will recover
soon and hopefully soon come back over here..
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: It is so important that you share your inventions, otherwise if it had
been a more dangerous accident the inventions could have been lost...
Quote from: hartiberlin on May 31, 2007, 03:30:41 PM
I just called the inventor?s home and only his nephew was there
and told me, that the inventor had a car accident and is still in hospital
and will be probably back next week.
So until then we will not get any new informations, cause the nephew did
not know anything about the machine...
I wished best luck for his health and that he will recover
soon and hopefully soon come back over here..
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: It is so important that you share your inventions, otherwise if it had
been a more dangerous accident the inventions could have been lost...
::) why am i not surprised? this always happens when someone has a "working" free energy machine >:( lol. how convenient.
anyways if it's true then yeah I hope he gets better and shares hes idea Open Sourced.
peace
Its unfortunate to hear about his accident. Hopefully it was merely an accident and not an act of aggression on someone else's part.
Hopefully he recovers well and soon!
Cheers!
Pretty unfortunate... Let's hope Bob recovers soon.
I'm trying to understand description Bob gave us...
So, it seems that two weights are travelling up and down the beam.
These weights can be "locked" together and so they become a whole for some time. When locked, they are not necessarily close to each other (they may indeed be "locked" via a bar, as Bob's picture shows, and as dutchy1966 noticed), so the bar may be travelling together with a single weight when weights are not "locked" to each other.
Secondly, these weights can be "unlocked" as well, by means of some pin activated by a lever. This pin "unlocks" weights from each other.
Weights are locked in some way by the air cylinder. When the weight strikes the air cylinder it stores some power in the air cylinder which then is used to lock two weights. So, it is possible that air cylinder is 'activated' at some point, electrically or mechanically, and this activation makes both weights move towards each other in order to lock them to each other.
So, what was left to understand is the algorithm of this three step operation (weight slide, weight lock, weight unlock): i.e. where on the beam the lever, the pin, springs and the air cylinder should be located to make system work.
Does this all look OK, or are there some errors?
I hope he recovers well.
I'm still baffled as to why the website has shut down. I don't see how an accident relates to this. In fact if an accident occurred you'd think he wouldn't have a chance to shut down or modify the website. The status quo should remain. So many questions and very few answers!!
Guy,
This website has the gravity wheel:
www.fuellesspower.com
The machine there is the predecesor of the enhanced version of Bobmary's machine.
They sell drawings and videos for anyone who wants to build the wheel.
Starting from this original version, I think one can improve unto the Bobmary's version easily.
All the best,
Aaron
Can not see, what this link fuellesspower... has to do with this thread??? And i have a feeling, that it is a deception to earn 40 Bugs selling useless plans to naive beleavers. such a motor will NEVER produce "up to 200 horse power" and the pyramide can only be a joke.
Aaron appears correct. On their site there is a plan for a gravity wheel that has remarkable similarities to Bobmary's wheel. It even suggests using compressed air then later replacing that with an electric solinoid.
Quote from: Joh70 on June 17, 2007, 02:14:05 PM
Can not see, what this link fuellesspower... has to do with this thread??? And i have a feeling, that it is a deception to earn 40 Bugs selling useless plans to naive beleavers. such a motor will NEVER produce "up to 200 horse power" and the pyramide can only be a joke.
But if this arrangement of unbalanced weights ,releases a power of 10 HP,then it is enaugh to power my Home.Clean and cheap.
Thats all about the Matter here.
Take a small Force to control a big force.
What does a Sailor do? He can not control he wind.
But he can adjust his sails.
A new wave is formed by interference.
helmut
Guys,
There are more videos regarding this interesting gravity engine. These videos show the older version of bobmary's machine. You can see the mechanism easily.
The other one is the fuelless machine from the same inventor.
Links:
a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWIN_b95GoI
b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_3tb0QG5Q
c: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/333921/fuelless_engine/
For this last video, you must go to metacafe.com and search for "fuelless engine" to see the video.
Aaron
the fuelless engine seam to be a newman machine motor lol, no need to buy the plan! but they use big neo magnet and a pretty big coil all around the motor and generate a lot of spark with multi-spark method or something
Quote from: aaron5120 on June 18, 2007, 05:56:23 AM
Guys,
There are more videos regarding this interesting gravity engine. These videos show the older version of bobmary's machine. You can see the mechanism easily.
The other one is the fuelless machine from the same inventor.
Links:
a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWIN_b95GoI
b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_3tb0QG5Q
c: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/333921/fuelless_engine/
For this last video, you must go to metacafe.com and search for "fuelless engine" to see the video.
Aaron
Hi Aaron
Thanks alot for this Links
It seems to be so easy.
After this Video we will see a vew Rebuilder.
helmut
i do not mean the flywheel. that's interesting.
Hi Helmet,everyone,
Well the operating principle becomes pretty clear watching them youtube videos. The only questions is will it indeed work without the compressor pushing the lever. They claim to use a solenoid which puses the lever. Does one rotation give us enough energy to push the lever by a solenoid???
regards
Robert
Every video I have seen so far uses a compressor and a piston to push the bottom lever (the one that stays pretty much vertical and is closest to the ground) up at the correct moment.
The gravity wheel seems to be a heavy device that maintains itself close to balance and the compressor maintains the momentum of rotation with an induced force.
I want to see the device without the compressor or any power input. Then you will have a fuel-less gravity wheel. But I am not optimistic on this particular one!
the gravity machine from fuelless engine site use a compressor also
Bobmary initially wrote that his air cylinder is energized by the wheel itself, then the stored energy is released at the correct time. So, his model does not use any external air compressor.
Quote from: aleks on June 19, 2007, 12:44:00 PM
Bobmary initially wrote that his air cylinder is energized by the wheel itself, then the stored energy is released at the correct time. So, his model does not use any external air compressor.
The question then is, is it possible to gather enough energy in one revolution to do this.
Anyone any good in working model 2D and can make a sim of it?
regards
Robert
The thing with all presumed gravity motors is that talk amounts to nothing. This is in relation to BobMarys comment you mentioned above. A gravity motor needs to work unassisted and we need to see evidence of this. Without evidence there is no motor.
Up to this point we see a compressor connected to a power source.
In the first video you can clearly see some sort of cord attached to the wheel. That could easily be an external power supply. This group wants you to pay money to get device schematics. If they are to be believable, show us a device free of all wires and clearly explain the operating principle.
Quote from: Vladimir256 on June 19, 2007, 07:03:15 PM
In the first video you can clearly see some sort of cord attached to the wheel. That could easily be an external power supply. This group wants you to pay money to get device schematics. If they are to be believable, show us a device free of all wires and clearly explain the operating principle.
Or try a search on emule.Search, Fuelless, and see what you get.
helmut
Hello guys:
Look at this :
http://video.google.com/videogvp/veljkomilkovic01.gvp?docid=3218487552793730311
Do you guys think it is possible to substitute the pendulum of the right side with the gravity wheel we saw in the fuellesspower.com website( up side down) to charge the left side of the lever?
I believe the wheel when reaching 12PM position in the right, the air piston will give it a push towards 6PM and then the wheel will transfer all the impulse to the left hand side of the lever, without drag to its velocity, and the bycycle wheel from the left can turn a generator somehow. Since the gravity wheel has an enormous torque, the power transfered to the left should be more than enough to activate the air piston ( or magnetic action modified piston). There you have a self-runner!
Aaron
See the attachment:
I just tried again to ring this inventor Bob in Canada
and a man picked up having the same voice as in my last
call pretending to be his nephew.
He said, that Bob is still in hospital and will only be home
in about maybe 2 months...
But I had the suspicion, that it was not his nephew, but Bob himself,
as the voice sounded very equal to his voice on the video...
He also excused not to have spoken yet with him about my former
call... makes me wonder if he was silenced not to speak about
it and his website to be shut down ?
If anyone who is serious wants to try to contact him locally ,
send me a private message and I can forward you his phone number and his address.
Many thanks.
After hearing of your phone call, I asked Jason to go to Bob's computer and look up your web site.
I read all the postings and came to your last entre and it was very upseting. I have much more to do than
reply to hurtfull email. I go to the hospitol every day and help with Bob's theropy. I don't drive and have to rely on Jason for his help and a ride to and from the hospital. Please do not call here again as I am sure to answer next time. I have a print out to give to him when he is feeling better.
EDIT
I think it is just wrong to hunt people down like this . Things like this make me think twice about posting any technology beyond what I have already done on this forum.
If I stop will you chase me down to.
Acting like MIB now is not the answer. You even sound like MIB in some
crazy investigation you have taken on. This man, this inventor owes nothing to you or this forum. Giving out phone number an address to other members . That is truly crossing the line.
A rather discussed with this
IronHead
Quote from: Vladimir256 on June 19, 2007, 07:03:15 PM
In the first video you can clearly see some sort of cord attached to the wheel. That could easily be an external power supply. This group wants you to pay money to get device schematics. If they are to be believable, show us a device free of all wires and clearly explain the operating principle.
Bobmary's one does not have a cord...even if it had, there is no way it could be attached to any mechanism on his wheel without interfering with its rotation. So, bobmary's device is pretty much different than those posted later here.
Quote from: IronHead on July 08, 2007, 12:20:46 AM
EDIT
I think it is just wrong to hunt people down like this . Things like this make me think twice about posting any technology beyond what I have already done on this forum.
If I stop will you chase me down to.
Acting like MIB now is not the answer. You even sound like MIB in some
crazy investigation you have taken on. This man, this inventor owes nothing to you or this forum. Giving out phone number an address to other members . That is truly crossing the line.
A rather discussed with this
IronHead
@Iron Head
I ask you to think twice about the Situation
On one Hand we face supression that came like Terror over Inventors
And on the oter Hand we have the Community like the overunity community.
Everyone who shows up here does it for his own reason.
One comes to takes information and Knowledges .And another came to provide the others and at the End the whole world with his Part to share.
So all take part in this community.
And now i ask you : how to fight agaist supression.?how to defend against MIB?
I think that Steffan is doing a good Job .
If Bob does not want to be contactet,he will tell him.
Just now i think that Steffan shuld start a new topic about the Matter of Community.
Perhaps it is nessesary to change the Regulations at the Forum ,to take part in this community and have a list from those,who want to be singned to the security circle.
This Point needs more Discussion
helmut
Sorry Bob and Ironhead,
but I was a bit disapointed after the call. Okay, I will remove your last name and town when I am again at my PC this evening.
And I won?t call anymore. Too bad that we don?t get anymore informations after the initial good introductions from many inventors....
Regards, Stefan.
Exactly. BobMary don't fraudulently make significant claims and then suddenly have regrets and hide.
Being smart at the beginning is wiser than being smart at the end.
Even if you negate such claims you should have anticipated how they would be interpreted.
Still you should be proud of what you designed. It is however novel and innovative.
I think what Stephan want to tell is like all of us, we are tired to see peoples claim stuffs without any informations and when we ask question to know more about the device the guys is always sick or another false reason, or something stupid like that. Instead of saying the truth they prefer lie and say bullshits.
Why his site say "we have been shutdown or something like that, now its under construction" and few days later he his sick, its a non sense...
It's not the first time we see something similar for the last months...
I see your points as well. One thing I think is that if the guy really is in the hospital? You can bet when he gets out ,he more than likely will have nothing to do with this forum after being flamed so badly, based on assumptions.
Thank you hartiberlin
for retracting the phone and address deal on this guy . I really do think it is wrong to post this information on people, but then again I am old school and believe in privacy.
The new age of information seems to demand non privacy . I just have a hard time with that.
Sorry if I came off so harsh as usual .It really was not my place to do so as I am not really apart of this thread or following.
A head full of Iron
IronHead
Okay, I removed his lastname and his town.
Sorry again.
His street address and his phone number were never posted here.
Regards. Stefan.
Hello all,
did already someone of you take a closer look to the video?
here are some pictures i extracted
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenet-homepage.de%2Frensseak%2FBob%2FBob_gmachine_001.jpg&hash=415049cfeca110c73a450f19239fdeca37dfb4c5)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenet-homepage.de%2Frensseak%2FBob%2FBob_gmachine_002.jpg&hash=218264dcbc51c3563ce0b4d987a45fdbf1b366a8)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenet-homepage.de%2Frensseak%2FBob%2FBob_gmachine_003.jpg&hash=b09410037913241bf0391416402a321bd0f21f73)
Quote from: aaron5120 on June 18, 2007, 05:56:23 AM
Guys,
There are more videos regarding this interesting gravity engine. These videos show the older version of bobmary's machine. You can see the mechanism easily.
The other one is the fuelless machine from the same inventor.
Links:
a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWIN_b95GoI
b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_3tb0QG5Q
c: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/333921/fuelless_engine/
For this last video, you must go to metacafe.com and search for "fuelless engine" to see the video.
Aaron
Hi Aaron
The Videos are not more on You Tube
Who can provide a Copy?
Helmut
I am kinda curious why the "table" directly in front of the camera jerks around when the machine starts to rotate, and stops when it stops. I wonder why the two are connected, looks like some air compressor connections on it.
Hi All,
Bob is back from hospital,
he just wrote me the following:
Hi Stephan. Just thought I would give you a little message and let you know I am back home again. I still go to therapy but things are comming along.
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table.
There are no hoses or airlines conected to it.
The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
A locking pin is used to release the springs.(springs have to be compressed for the first revolution) Springs
On the pictures that are labled, the belt is a steel bar joining the two weights.
The spring mecanisum is at the end of each arm. This is a must, as well as the air shock to stop the weights from impacting the end.
I hade help from a friend,George,who was an retired Engineer who designed the cam system as well as other parts.
I am going to go now. I can only type wih my right hand and it takes forever to type this. Soon I will be back to two hands.
Don't worry about the little bit of trouble there was, everything is ok.
I will be in touch......Take care Bob.
Hi Bob
good to have you back here
helmut
Hope everythings ok, has he said whether he will atleast opensource the basic design concept? or something to help do a reproduction for us DIY testers?
Quote from: cchance on August 09, 2007, 04:51:33 PM
Hope everythings ok, has he said whether he will atleast opensource the basic design concept? or something to help do a reproduction for us DIY testers?
I guess,that he will surprise all of us.
Till now he all ready descibed lots of Details.
Just a vew detail fotos are missing,to unterstand how the world goes around.
His Konstruktion will produce more than 2000W/h and we can help him with Ideas to maximise a comfortable use of his and Georges invention.
helmut
Quote from: hartiberlin on August 07, 2007, 06:30:44 AM
Hi All,
Bob is back from hospital,
he just wrote me the following:
Hi Stephan. Just thought I would give you a little message and let you know I am back home again. I still go to therapy but things are comming along.
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table.
There are no hoses or airlines conected to it.
The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
A locking pin is used to release the springs.(springs have to be compressed for the first revolution) Springs
On the pictures that are labled, the belt is a steel bar joining the two weights.
The spring mecanisum is at the end of each arm. This is a must, as well as the air shock to stop the weights from impacting the end.
I hade help from a friend,George,who was an retired Engineer who designed the cam system as well as other parts.
I am going to go now. I can only type wih my right hand and it takes forever to type this. Soon I will be back to two hands.
Don't worry about the little bit of trouble there was, everything is ok.
I will be in touch......Take care Bob.
The video states "Uncrank the disc brake, give it a little nudge and away it goes. Adjust the tension on the brake to control the rpm as there is no load on the first test."
Is this a minor contradiction?
Rich
Hey, Guys and Gales,
Youtube's got this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uLPMGrMohc
it's so simple and ingeniuos yet a 3 years old can understand the how to assamble the device!
Maybe it cannot power a generator, but if you make it big enough to roll in a giant circular runway, you can extract electricity from this wheel with magnets and coils embedded in the walls of the runway.
Just my two cents of food for thought.
Aaron5120
Look at these 2 videos:
These were faked with a tilted table:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-9JOYSdPkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhbFuorWZg
Quote from: oouthere on August 09, 2007, 11:22:11 PM
Quote from: hartiberlin on August 07, 2007, 06:30:44 AM
Hi All,
Bob is back from hospital,
he just wrote me the following:
Hi Stephan. Just thought I would give you a little message and let you know I am back home again. I still go to therapy but things are comming along.
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table.
There are no hoses or airlines conected to it.
The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
A locking pin is used to release the springs.(springs have to be compressed for the first revolution) Springs
On the pictures that are labled, the belt is a steel bar joining the two weights.
The spring mecanisum is at the end of each arm. This is a must, as well as the air shock to stop the weights from impacting the end.
I hade help from a friend,George,who was an retired Engineer who designed the cam system as well as other parts.
I am going to go now. I can only type wih my right hand and it takes forever to type this. Soon I will be back to two hands.
Don't worry about the little bit of trouble there was, everything is ok.
I will be in touch......Take care Bob.
The video states "Uncrank the disc brake, give it a little nudge and away it goes. Adjust the tension on the brake to control the rpm as there is no load on the first test."
Is this a minor contradiction?
Rich
Maybe he was not really driving the air compressor at this test,
but just the hoses, so these hoses just shook..?
[/quote]
The video states "Uncrank the disc brake, give it a little nudge and away it goes. Adjust the tension on the brake to control the rpm as there is no load on the first test."
Is this a minor contradiction?
Rich
[/quote]
Maybe he was not really driving the air compressor at this test,
but just the hoses, so these hoses just shook..?
[/quote]
I think that the excess Energy will continuisly speed up the Mashine.
therevore he :Adjust the tension on the brake to control the rpm ...
(instead of a load wich workes as a resistance)as there is no load on the first test
(such as a generator to consume the excess power)
helmut
QuoteHey, Guys and Gales,
Youtube's got this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uLPMGrMohc
it's so simple and ingeniuos yet a 3 years old can understand the how to assamble the device!
Maybe it cannot power a generator, but if you make it big enough to roll in a giant circular runway, you can extract electricity from this wheel with magnets and coils embedded in the walls of the runway.
Just my two cents of food for thought.
Aaron5120
Hi Aaron: have you seen the 2nd part of the video? Look at this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEgiZPGKQ_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEgiZPGKQ_Y)
Why he/she burns the wheel?
And another wheel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsSTE1T4doc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsSTE1T4doc)
Regards
All,
I really hate these videos because they are so ridiculously inconclusive and bordering on the edge of silly. First of all from my knowledge of construction a garage floor is slanted to the door by about 3+" over 20ft which would be enough to make those wheel roll the way they do. Now you might say he shows a level on the ground. Well that 5" level would show level on that slope. If you put a 6ft level it would show its not level. He could have so simply shown a video with the fallowing and I would be convince no question. All he would have had to do is start it the way he does in the video and let it roll for 4+ft like he did. Then without cutting the video grab it and stop it and turn it 180 degrees and let it go and show it backtracking the same path to its starting point if not farther. This would have conclusively shown its effects. That simple. But I have yet to see this. The whole burning the wheels thing just makes it so if someone asks him to show the previous he can say he doesn't have it anymore and that you will have to make it to try it.
Tim
I didn't spend the time reading the whole post so if someone already said this my apologies. And as always I hope I'm wrong.
@Tim & Aaron:
I just made a replication of that simple toy-wheel, even better made as the one shown in the video. Results: the video is a fake, such a wheel no goes more than 4 or 5 turns when you give it a good impulse.
If you want I can put here a video of my replication.
Regards
syncron
As far as Mr Hall's attempts at self sustaining wheels go I think we should take into consideration his credentials & background as an artist. While his manufacturing skills look very nice his experimental technique needs some tidying up, to be convincing.
As Tim said, you need a far longer level to gauge accurately the flatness of the garage floor. A short level is notoriously unreliable & shows only the 'local' spot. A longer level [4 ft plus] placed on top of a straight length of timber is an even more reliable indication of slope over a longer distance, especially if you also turn the level around & the 'bubble' remains centered.
Running the wheel both ways evens out any 'slope' anomalies that may or may not be present. Running over different parallel tracks in the same video also helps establish credibility, with at least one track at 90 degrees as well.
Video's need to be continuous & pan in & out to show the surroundings, to eliminate any possible outside interference criticism. The sound needs to be on to eliminate any untoward noises like leaf blowers or air compressors or people on hands & knees blowing or waving a tennis racket above it, for example.
The model has to be shown front, side & back to eliminate any obvious 'coins' taped to the rear side to provide the initial start up over-balance.
There are more 'grey areas' that could be addressed. Perhaps Stefan could set up a thread that gives a list of what is considered good experimental technique for 'Proof of Concept' demonstrations for gravity wheels ? Just a thought !
Fletcher, Good idea with the thread.
Tim
It is building code that garage floors be sloped as nwman correctly said, They do this so cars can drive in but rain water can't get into the house. And even with a 5 inch level, a paper shim could correct it if it could show the out of level. I will say that the mans wood working skills are top notch and very clean.
syncron, yes, why not put the video here? i asumed its not working, because its to easy - no combined mechanisms/principles. Nonetheless i beleave bessler gravity wheels work. For example: i saw one ten years ago on an exhibition for motors/drives here in germany as an eyecatch on a table (not to be sold, not part of the product-portfolio of the company). it was pureley out of metal. but they didn't show me the complete interior but, statet that it was running by its own. i said, thats impossible and went away soon. but i changed my mind some years later and began to start research.
hi joh70
here you are the video. My digital fotocamara has no sound.
About the setup you have seen in Germany perhaps it was this:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2993.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2993.0.html)
The person who saw it and made the flash told me that this was a "Elektrizit?tsfirma" on Hannover fair.
Sorry I don't succes to upload the video file. I have to compress it. Will try later.
If you post it on youtube it should compress it for you. You could also try to use virtualdub. Its free, and there are plenty of tutorials.
Do you know if that german is a working device or not? Have you tried a replication?
hi, yes, it was a device based on that design shown in the animation above. don't know if it was the same company or fair. that one i saw, was covered. so i could'nt see the area between.
it realy seemed to work, as i can remember and as they told me. but there must be an additional mechanism inside, because i rebuilded it as good as i can with no success. i asume it is a bessler-variation, as the most pure mechanicaly designs are / try to be.
hey guys sorry to barge in
after numerous calculations and synthesys>>> i think i found us a way to get real free energy
>> stay tuned
i will be needing as much feedback as possible from you
lets do it together
i guess that this is the purpose of this forum anyway
i stand on grounds that >> many of our predecessors have opened ways but they all got stuck in their single lined research thus were unable to see the bigger picture
please feel free to join in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3029.new.html#new
any contextual input will be welcomed
thanks in advance
Dear All,
Just wanted to let you know that Bob's got a nice article in the Lindsay Post:
http://www.thepost.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=679901&catname=Local%20News&classif=News%20Live
and made it on KeelyNet (where I got the link from in the first place).
Congrats Bob!!
Dear All,
Just like to appologise for making a complete hash-up of the promise of this.
First lesson learnt: Read all previous posts before putting comments on at the very end of a post.
Sorry chaps!! :-[
Mike
Hi Mikey,
many thanks for posting this article link !
I am just copying here now all the text files and the
pictures, cause Bob?s last site was deleted,
so we have it at least here to stay for protection !
I think this is the breakthrough we all have been waiting for and
Bob is the new Bessler of 2007 !
Here it is copied from:
http://www.thepost.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=679901&catname=Local%20News&classif=News%20Live (http://www.thepost.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=679901&catname=Local%20News&classif=News%20Live)
Little Britain man turning gravity into power
'You can get off the grid with one of these': inventor
Jason Bain
Local News - Tuesday, September 04, 2007 Updated @ 4:44:19 PM
LINDSAY ? When he heard on television that gravity couldn't be used as a form of energy, Bob Kostoff set out to prove Discovery Channel wrong.
?I said, 'That doesn't make any sense,'? said the Little Britain resident, using dropping a cement brick from a standing height as an example.
If you were to place your hands a few centimeters off of the ground to try to stop it before it hits the ground, you wouldn't be able to because of the energy powering the bricks fall, he said last Friday.
With that concept in mind, Kostoff sought to make a 'perpetual motion machine' that could offer a clean, alternative source of power using gravity as 'fuel.'
After about four years of planning and development through trial and error ? including about a year-and-a-half creating the designs on paper - Kostoff reached his goal.
He now owns the patent on the technology to prove it.
The result was 'The Gravity Powered Machine.' The self-sustaining engine provides as little as 10 foot-pounds of torque or as much as hundreds, Kostoff said, adding how its cost is less than half of a small wind turbine.
The machine ? which only requires a little bit of start-up juice before it creates enough power to sustain itself - works much like a teeter-totter, using a series of sliding weights that, with the help of the earths gravitational pull, force the unit to continue spinning around in a circle.
Install a series of magnets in the unit and tens of thousands of watts of electricity can be produced, an amount that depends on the size of the actual machine.
?You can get off the hydro grid with one of these,? Kostoff told The Lindsay Post.
So far, about five of the units have been made. Once he got the concept down, he said he began fine-tuning the more cosmetic aspects of the machine, such as reducing noise.
?Once you figure it out, it's just about perfecting it,? he said.
A former employee of Matthews Conveyor who also ran his own computer stores in Lindsay and Port Perry, Kostoff hopes his new invention will eliminate the need for fossil fuels.
The machines can be used in a variety of applications, Kostoff said, because they produce electricity at no cost.
For example, he said the units can be used to generate the power needed for electrolysis, a process that creates hydrogen, a ?free fuel? that could be used to power your personal vehicle.
For more information on the gravity powered engine, or to see a video of it in action, visit www.newsourceofenergy.com (http://www.newsourceofenergy.com)
NEW SOURCE of ENERGY
Gravity Powered Engine
? New source of energy
? Powered by gravity
? Needs no fuel to run
Introduction
This engine is a self sustaining gravity powered unit. It produces all the
energy needed to run a generator large enough to provide power for
all the hydro and heat needed for your home. This patented system
can be as small as producing 10 foot pounds of torque or as much as
over 300 foot pounds of torque.
Each unit is approximately 8 feet by 4 feet by 6 feet tall and is totally
enclosed for safely protection against moving parts.
This new engine is the product of years of research, frustration and
perseverance. I found that using the perpetual motion approach limits
the amount of usable energy available. An internal combustion engine
can be enhanced and will produce more power by installing a turbo
charger. This unit will use some of the initial power produced by the
engine, but the end result is far greater. The same process is used
in this unit but because it uses Gravity rather than fuel, the enhancement
system is much different.
The new design changes to the machine and improvements to the
enhancement mechanism look very promising and should deliver
over 500 foot pounds of torque.
This web site is not here to sell anything. It is only to inform you that
a new source of power will soon be available.
The cost of the unit will be surprisingly inexpensive.
Newer Machine Specs.
Length approximately 8 feet
Width approximately 4 feet
Height approximately 6 feet
weight 450 lbs
Torque over 100 foot lbs and up
Read me first
Video is available of older machine to view newer machine soon to be posted
This is an older model machine that delivers approximately 1 to 1 1/2 horse power. This was the first test of this machine and was not fully balanced.
Procedure
First I have to loosen off the disk brake until it has a small amount of resistance, then give the machine a little push. As it starts to rotate and picks up speed I tighten the brake just enough to control the rotation speed. This is normally handled by a governor on the newer machines. The machine must rotate at a pacific speed to keep the generator constant. To stop the machine I just tighten the crank on the disk brake assembly and it works the same way as the disk brakes work on a car.
==================
Okay, here are all the pictures I have found about this machine attached to this
posting:
The last picture file94200744448PM.jpg had a subtitle:
Little Britain resident Bob Kostoff controls an early version of 'The Gravity Powered Machine' as it turns at a high rate of speed. The machine, which he has patented, generates power using gravity.
Here are attached the 2 videos I found on his website:
Here is the Canadian patent office website,
but I did not yet find any gravity related patent by the inventor name
Kostoff, so maybe someone else is lucky to find it ?
http://patents1.ic.gc.ca/srch_adv-e.html
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
the only thing i see related to gravity and recent are this patent
http://patents1.ic.gc.ca/details?patent_number=2497861&language=EN
but its from LAROCQUE, LEONARD but the patent is not avaialble for download yet
Filled in 2006
I live about 2 hours from Bob. Maybe I can do a quick look-see as to what is going on. I'd certianly like to take a look at it.
I suspect the patent has been 'approved' but not fully cleared of the Canadian Patent System, and Bob may now be applying for US protection as well.
Here is still the last video in WMV format for those that had problems to watch the
converted DIVX AVI version.
aren't patents 18 months hidden before they get public? like Steorn.
In the US system: Patents are hidden (but who knows, really) from every prying eye, for 18 months, which is the 'application' phase. Then if accepted, (meaning the patent format is correct) it can be seen by corporations, who have been given the privalege of seeing them so they can say that..maybe..they've been working on that for 8-9 years, or some other similar crap. This essentially means that the old solid rule is that the patent goes to the guy who files first, that is - GONE. This means a corporation who decides they want a piece of your patent, can bring 'supposed' evidence thatÃ, they've been working on such for years..and your patent is denied and their is accepted. This is, of course, after they've been given the 'right' to peer into your patent application.
Total bull, but that particular change to the patent rules was enacted when GW came into office, IIRC. I'm not sure exactly how true the above statements are, but I'm going to be finding the salient details out tomorrow.
In Canada, you can create a letter, file, whatever, with photos that have the claims and process, etc, laid out, and mail it to yourself as a registered letter, and you are given a year to file from the date of that registered letter. When the letter comes back to you, you leave it sealed. Don't open it, it is your commercial protection. this is for Canada only, I've no idea how other countries do it. If you have a good idea and don't want to patent it (no money!), and/or want it to remain 'open source' this is a good way of preventing others from patenting such, as your sealed and dated registered letter can serve in court as a controlled 'date' for 'prior knowledge', or, 'prior art' that can strike down someone's attempt to patent something. Just don't open the letters when they come back, just file them away. This may work in the US as well, I'm not sure. I'll find out tomorrow.
Quote from: Prophmaji on September 06, 2007, 10:20:45 PM
I live about 2 hours from Bob. Maybe I can do a quick look-see as to what is going on. I'd certianly like to take a look at it.
I suspect the patent has been 'approved' but not fully cleared of the Canadian Patent System, and Bob may now be applying for US protection as well.
Bob has an email reply thingy at the bottom right of his page: http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/ (http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/) Why don't you try and get a hold of him and set up an appointment,
Prophmaji. Let us know what happens.
j
Okay, Bob has posted a new page,
how it works here:
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/how%20it%20works.html (http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/how%20it%20works.html)
he writes:
How it Works
This drawing is not to scale. It is only used to visualize what has happened in the process.
Notice the weights on the right side and the weights in the center left. The mechanism I am using
propel the weight at the appropriate time and retracts the weight at the bottom so all the weight
is constantly at one end. I have enhanced the actuator mechanism and because of this it is not
a perpetual motion machine. If the power of the unit was converted to foot LBS the unit would uses
6 foot LBS of torque to Produce 200 LBS. of torque and more.
The wheels with drive belts on them represent the drive for the generator.
I hope this will help every one to understand how it works. (Number 1 question)
Bob is probably converting the centrifugal forces into useful forces
over here.
If the upper shifting weight at 12 o?clock hits the upper end of the 12 o?clock arm,
this hit pulse can be transfered via airpressure down to the lower weight
hiting there a spring and pushing the lower weight at 6 o?clock into the direction
of the axis !
So the centrifugal force of the upper weight hitting at 12 o?clock
helps to pull up the weight at 6 o?clock.
This is a pretty amazing principle, which has not until now being used.
As centrifugal forces can get very big in such a system, the output power
can get very high !
Very clever Bob !
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on September 09, 2007, 11:10:25 AM
Bob is probably converting the centrifugal forces into useful forces
over here.
If the upper shifting weight at 12 o?clock hits the upper end of the 12 o?clock arm,
this hit pulse can be transfered via airpressure down to the lower weight
hiting there a spring and pushing the lower weight at 6 o?clock into the direction
of the axis !
So the centrifugal force of the upper weight hitting at 12 o?clock
helps to pull up the weight at 6 o?clock.
This is a pretty amazing principle, which has not until now being used.
As centrifugal forces can get very big in such a system, the output power
can get very high !
Very clever Bob !
Regards, Stefan.
Air pressure as a centrifugal energy conversion device, can't wait to hear more.
All signs point to this being a 100% authentic device, again, can't wait to hear more.
Hi Tao and all,
the principle of this device is pretty simple.
I have understood it by now.
You can try it yourself very easily.
Just take 2 x 5 Liter buckets filled with water.
One in each hand.
Now pull your hands 180 degrees apart and rotate the 2 water
buckets in a vertical plane.
See, how strong the centrifugal forces are and so the water
stays in the buckets and will not spread onto your head ! ;)
Now now retrieve one bucket , so that you hold it with a tightened
muscles, so it stays a bit less way from the center of rotation.
Now let this retrieved weight bang at 12 o?clock against a "mysterious"
wall, which transfers the bang energy to the nonretrieved full arm long bucket
at 6 o?clock.
This will make the 6 o?clock bucket jump into the direction of the center
of rotation.
The 12 o?clock bucket still stays full long arm out until it itself reaches 6 o?clock,
where the other retrieved bucket is again loosened at it hits also the
12 o?clock "mysterious" wall, so the energy is again transfered down to the
other bucket at
6 o?clock , which will be retrieved then again into the direction of the center
and fixed their, until it is again let go at shortly before 12 o?clock.
So the lever arm from 12 o?clock to 6 o?clock will always be heavier
and the resetting is done via the immense centrifugal "fictitious force",
which is thus converted into a real force doing work !
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on September 09, 2007, 07:57:54 PM
Hi Tao and all,
the principle of this device is pretty simple.
I have understood it by now.
You can try it yourself very easily.
Just take 2 x 5 Liter buckets filled with water.
One in each hand.
Now pull your hands 180 degrees apart and rotate the 2 water
buckets in a vertical plane.
See, how strong the centrifugal forces are and so the water
stays in the buckets and will not spread onto your head ! ;)
Now now retrieve one bucket , so that you hold it with a tightened
muscles, so it stays a bit less way from the center of rotation.
Now let this retrieved weight bang at 12 o?clock against a "mysterious"
wall, which transfers the bang energy to the nonretrieved full arm long bucket
at 6 o?clock.
This will make the 6 o?clock bucket jump into the direction of the center
of rotation.
The 12 o?clock bucket still stays full long arm out until it itself reaches 6 o?clock,
where the other retrieved bucket is again loosened at it hits also the
12 o?clock "mysterious" wall, so the energy is again transfered down to the
other bucket at
6 o?clock , which will be retrieved then again into the direction of the center
and fixed their, until it is again let go at shortly before 12 o?clock.
So the lever arm from 12 o?clock to 6 o?clock will always be heavier
and the resetting is done via the immense centrifugal "fictitious force",
which is thus converted into a real force doing work !
Regards, Stefan.
Plus, since the other weights on the left side of the wheel are 'locked' into position nearest the shaft, and since there is a weight difference on the right side of the wheel, that could easily be ADDED to the centrifugal energy conversion...
So, if converting the centrifugal force from the 12 o'clock weight wasn't enough, you still have all that gravitationally imposed energy from that left-side / right-side differential to use to aid in lifting that 6 o'clock weight.
This is a VERY impressive device so far, waiting to see what Bob does next..............
Site down http://www.newenergymachine.com/
Says it will be back in a couple days in the title................
Quote from: hartiberlin on September 09, 2007, 07:57:54 PM
Hi Tao and all,
the principle of this device is pretty simple.
I have understood it by now.
You can try it yourself very easily.
Just take 2 x 5 Liter buckets filled with water.
One in each hand.
Now pull your hands 180 degrees apart and rotate the 2 water
buckets in a vertical plane.
See, how strong the centrifugal forces are and so the water
stays in the buckets and will not spread onto your head ! ;)
Now now retrieve one bucket , so that you hold it with a tightened
muscles, so it stays a bit less way from the center of rotation.
Now let this retrieved weight bang at 12 o?clock against a "mysterious"
wall, which transfers the bang energy to the nonretrieved full arm long bucket
at 6 o?clock.
This will make the 6 o?clock bucket jump into the direction of the center
of rotation.
The 12 o?clock bucket still stays full long arm out until it itself reaches 6 o?clock,
where the other retrieved bucket is again loosened at it hits also the
12 o?clock "mysterious" wall, so the energy is again transfered down to the
other bucket at
6 o?clock , which will be retrieved then again into the direction of the center
and fixed their, until it is again let go at shortly before 12 o?clock.
So the lever arm from 12 o?clock to 6 o?clock will always be heavier
and the resetting is done via the immense centrifugal "fictitious force",
which is thus converted into a real force doing work !
Regards, Stefan.
@Stefan
Please make a sketch for those,who can not imagine that lesson.
helmut
Quote from: tao on September 09, 2007, 11:38:55 PM
Site down http://www.newenergymachine.com/
Says it will be back in a couple days in the title................
it seems he registered a new domain name for this:
www.newsourceofenergy.com
Stefan,
I also would like a sketch, because Im having trouble understanding
what you mean.
Thanks
need blueprint :-\
LookÃ, on the net, for a video of the innards of a wankel engine and then read again. Then you will get it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
About half way down, and on the left of the page will be an animation of the action of a wankel. Imagine the piston being a long bar, with a weight at each end, instead of the wankel's tri-corner unit. The piston changes position, ie, it flies down the right side with the weight way out there and as it approaches the bottom, it is slammed up to the center and the opposite end of the dual weighted bar (like a dumbell or weight bar with weights on each end) is slammed to the top. The whole arrangementÃ, (the long dumbell bar with weights) is located on a flat or guide that is twice as long as the dumbell, and that rotates, while the dumbell is constantly trading ends around. Like the wankel engine, but with only two piston 'tips' instead of the wankel's three.
You will quickly see how the rotation and slamming combined with the "baseball pitcher" like action of tossing the end out like that will cause or create huge amounts of torque from a fairly small initial pulse, that is acelerated via the centrifugal force. It's like a underhand softball pitch that hits a wall at the bottom of the pitch or near the ball relase point, that forces it upward. This is done at the bottom of the motion for the same reason the pitch in softball is released at that point. It is the point of highest energy accumulation.
Imagine this: You have a softball in your hand. There is a steel bar running through the center of it. The bar is attached to your shoulder and sticks out just past it. Another softball is attached to the end of the bar that is just above your shoulder.
If you were to reach down, grab that softball,and move it up..the bar would slide through the rotating anchor that is at your shoulder joint, and the upper ball would begin to move in perfect sync with the lower ball. They are tied by this steel bar.
Now, rotate the softball (the lower one) around quickly and both will rotate, one ball way down low, and far out - the other, at your shoulder, rotating around the joint.
Now, imagine a wall in front of you, or a stump or the like. Now, you rotate the ball around, way way out, as far as you can, to gain energy for the pitch. But, when you go to release it, you hit the ball on the stump, near the ground. Pow! The forward momentum of the ball is ended, but the ball jumps upward, toward your shoulder. The one that was near your shoulder, goes up as it is tied to that steel bar that is anchored at your shoulder. The lower ball comes up to the shoulder point, but the other one goes way up! Now the upper one..which has swapped positions with the one you pitched.. will do the same as the first, as the steel bar they are both on and attached to your shoulder..will continue to rotate.
So it's torque..accumulate.. slam! (swap positions) torque.. accumulate (energy).. slam!.. (swap positions)..torque .. accumulate (energy).. etc
That is the essential point of operation.
Now guys, did I get it right?
And to cross correlate for the fun of it, this is the mechanical equivalent of what you need to manipulate in energy manipulation of crystalline lattice structures. Basically a polarized hysteresis point. resonance, it is.
This is the key point in moray's capacitors which were excited via using Americum, polonium, etc. (like blowing across the top of a coke bottle) RF resonance of ground crystal based capacitors. He ground his capacitor dielectric out of a single pure crystal, and to a uniform size. He created a RF resonant polarized hysteretic helmholtz resonator out of pure powdered crystal dielectric, and the right shape, and charge levels.
Newer plastics have just been 'figured out' that have high levels of polarization, which will allow them to store over 7 times the energy of typical cutting edge 'current design' capacitors.
Moray managed to get one heck of alot more out of the polarization allowed by pure matched crystal powder. And the crystal is inherently resonant. In multiple ways.
Is it me, or does it seem a little too early to call this guy the new Bessler? I think we have seen about 60 seconds of video, max, with no evidence of there not being an external energy source. This sort of reminds me of the X files, which is a great show, but one thing that always bothered me is that in just about every episode, Scully is so skeptical of anything supernatural going on. Does she not remember how in every other episode, Mulder was right and she was wrong? You would think she would be a little more open-minded by episode 120. This sort of reminds me a little of this board except in reverse. How many bogus claims have you seen? You would think a little more skepticism is in order.
Anyway, Stefan finds out about this guy's claims. We all want to know more details. Pretty soon, there is a death in his family. Everyone sends their condolences. A little while later, the guy is in the hospital (for two months!) People are asking if he is ok. His website goes down, his website goes up. He has a chart explaining the device. Yes, the weights move back and forth, but how? Oh, with air. No one thought of using air pressure before, and therefore it must work, because pressurized air does not really follow the law of CoE, right?
Guys, all we have right now is his word. Even the article Stefan quoted is all just Bob talking. The diagram is useless, and is designed to be useless. It shows everything except the magic device that pushes the weights back in forth in violation of the laws of physics. So far, this is just like every other bogus claim out there.
I say, 99.99% chance this guys is full of it, and in no small part due to his behavior. Death in the family? Maybe. Death in the family followed by his own hospital stay? No way. Oh, and did someone say he is asking for money? I can just see it now:
"Your drawings do not lead to a working device. Can I get a refund?"
"This is not Bob, this is his father. Bob is in the hospital for the next 6 months."
*laughter* ......... hope you're wrong.
Hello All,
I do have to agree with shruggedatlas. That was why I sent a post to appologise for my initial post. Only after I read all the previous posts did I think that this guy is full of it. Too many coincidences to make me believe.
And afterwards, I realised that he could have easily have pulled the wool over the Post Reporters eyes.
So appologies once again for my earlier posts, and I look forward to working with all of you on something much more promisin than this fairytale. There are so many more promising ideas here on Overunity.com than this.
Best wishes,
Mike
Quote from: Prophmaji on September 07, 2007, 08:18:15 PM
In the US system: Patents are hidden (but who knows, really) from every prying eye, for 18 months, which is the 'application' phase. Then if accepted, (meaning the patent format is correct) it can be seen by corporations, who have been given the privalege of seeing them so they can say that..maybe..they've been working on that for 8-9 years, or some other similar crap. This essentially means that the old solid rule is that the patent goes to the guy who files first, that is - GONE. This means a corporation who decides they want a piece of your patent, can bring 'supposed' evidence that they've been working on such for years..and your patent is denied and their is accepted. This is, of course, after they've been given the 'right' to peer into your patent application.
Total bull, but that particular change to the patent rules was enacted when GW came into office, IIRC. I'm not sure exactly how true the above statements are, but I'm going to be finding the salient details out tomorrow.
In Canada, you can create a letter, file, whatever, with photos that have the claims and process, etc, laid out, and mail it to yourself as a registered letter, and you are given a year to file from the date of that registered letter. When the letter comes back to you, you leave it sealed. Don't open it, it is your commercial protection. this is for Canada only, I've no idea how other countries do it. If you have a good idea and don't want to patent it (no money!), and/or want it to remain 'open source' this is a good way of preventing others from patenting such, as your sealed and dated registered letter can serve in court as a controlled 'date' for 'prior knowledge', or, 'prior art' that can strike down someone's attempt to patent something. Just don't open the letters when they come back, just file them away. This may work in the US as well, I'm not sure. I'll find out tomorrow.
I think some of your information about the US patent system is in error. There are several factors which impact the publication timeline, but in general it is around 18 months. Many inventors want to delay publication and submit a provisional application, which gives you a year to claim ?patent pending? and to delay publishing a full national application which has much more detailed requirements. It is a way to set forth a ?priority date? for your invention, without having quite all of the details worked out.
After that year, a formal National application is required or optionally a PCT (International application).
In any case, there is no top secret access to unpublished applications for big companies. In fact, big companies accidently infringe on patents often, and accept it as a risk of doing business.
It always astonishes me how many will assume organized corruption exists in a government agency with thousands of employees. If there is corruption, it is on a micro scale as there are too many people involved to sensibly assume it is standard practice.
it always astonishes me to see that there are those who do not accept that there can be an usually are notable levels of coruption in large corporate organized entities. Government or corporate.
That is the other side of that arguement. The question is the level and type of corruption. Just spoke to a friend the other day who does patent protection and litigation for large intel based software corp. A Patent lawyer. I was told the patent has 'protection' from prying eyes for the first 18 months of it's existence.
We then note how many inventors are approached immediately upon application, concerning the level of 'secrecy' (black projects) their particular application falls under. Ths is a clear indication of how many prying eyes are involved in looking at one's given application. Then again, it is not a secrecy application system , it is a system for application of legal protection from fraud, for invention. Nothing more.
Alway remember that 'heat' can be substituted for 'time' in many formulas. (Depends on how the formula was based or created)
HI Bob and all,
We will be presenting some of our open sourced technology to certain faculties and other parties in order to help the cause.The non profit org has also added you to the list or presentation.
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/BobMary.htm
I will also be bringing your tech to the attention of our sponsors in order to help.
regards
ashtweth
It might not be bull. who knows. Point is, I've been approached directly by 'the bad guys' twice now. So, it does happen. At least over here, I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, if they can't post HERE..without suffering derision..where can they go?
Once again. I live less than 2 hours away from Bob. I can go check in on him.
I guess the picture on http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/how%20it%20works.html describes it all - and fully corresponds to BobMary's initial descriptions.
Two weights are interconnected, and are sliding easily. The question is: when weights are impulsively pushed up at 6 o'clock - how much energy is stored in the air-compressor (which can be also modeled with a spring and a simple multi-level zipper-locker mechanism), between 12 and 6 o'clock? (the air-compressor is being pressed due to the centrifugal force that builds up in the interconnected weights - think of vacuum cleaner's power cord winding mechanism). The excess energy (beyond what is needed to reverse position of the weights) stored in the air-compressor can then add force to the overall torque.
It's too good to be true, but why not? Rumors say that perpetual motion gravity wheel was already invented in USSR back in 1950s... same rumors say that this invention was immediately prohibited by authorities.
By the way, nobody seems to be arguing with the fact that space satellites are gaining speed in gravity field of the planets. That's a purely free energy, created out of nowhere it seems: it is created by mass. There's probably a more in-depth scientific description exists for this fact (that involves some conservation of energy law and gravitons), but to put it short, energy is indeed created since space satellite gains speed due to planet's gravity and centrifugal force it creates. My bet is that BobMary's machine uses exactly the same fact, but stores surplus energy in a convenient form that is then reused at the most correct time: think of a satellite that travels just around two planets (or system of planets): it can gain speed infinitely (with some minor corrections to its trajectory).
Quote from: Prophmaji on September 11, 2007, 12:13:32 PM
it always astonishes me to see that there are those who do not accept that there can be an usually are notable levels of coruption in large corporate organized entities. Government or corporate.
That is the other side of that arguement. The question is the level and type of corruption. Just spoke to a friend the other day who does patent protection and litigation for large intel based software corp. A Patent lawyer. I was told the patent has 'protection' from prying eyes for the first 18 months of it's existence.
We then note how many inventors are approached immediately upon application, concerning the level of 'secrecy' (black projects) their particular application falls under. Ths is a clear indication of how many prying eyes are involved in looking at one's given application. Then again, it is not a secrecy application system , it is a system for application of legal protection from fraud, for invention. Nothing more.
Alway remember that 'heat' can be substituted for 'time' in many formulas. (Depends on how the formula was based or created)
"there can be an usually are notable levels of coruption" is a statement of opinion which I am sure you have no research or statistical data to support. While I will agree it is certainly possible for corruption to exist in an entity of ANY size, assuming that it is usually happening just because it is possible iust cannot be logical.
Yes, as I said before 18 months is the "normal" process, but there are procedural elements that can delay that.
"We then note how many inventors are approached immediately upon application" -- again, I'd like to understand where you've obtained information that indicates how often this happens, if at all. This, like your comment on corruption seems to be an assumption, not based on factual information you've obtained or personal experience.
I will agree with you however that the patent application process is intended for legal protection, not perfect secrecy. The patent process was designed specifically as a publishing process, focused on the spread of invention information.
As to inventors being approached by people after application, there are multiple possibilities:
1) Many inventors talk about their inventions quite a bit, especially after submitting an application - I have seen this happen
2) When you submit the application, even while the document itself is not published, the title to the application is available to ANYONE. The title is a great indication of what the invention does and could lead to inquiry. Also, the inventor name and city/state is public, making it easy to find the person. - I have also seen this happen
3) I'm not sure about legal/policy issues, but even if an application's content is unpublished, those who are exposed to it at the USPTO may be able to mention the concept of it to an outsider without violating law - I have NOT seen this happen, but it could only be classified as "corruption" IF there is a law or USPTO policy against it. IF this does happen, which may be possible, and IF it is corruption, then in my opinion it is not logical that it be widespread.
BUT in any case, the secrecy part of the application process really isn't the core intent of the patent process anyway, its really just a way to give the inventor time to get the patent application perfected and incorporate up-to-date variations and adjustments to their invention in the finalized application, and to of course deal with any prior art issues.
So, is it possible that the bad, large, corporate monsters find out about inventions before the application is published? Yes. Do most of the predictable ways that can happen involve some sort of "curruption" or criminal activity? Doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't you agree that it would be much easier for Microsoft to monitor a listing of patent applications submitted every month (public information), then follow up on the ones that have titles that sound interesting? Thats an easy way to talk to inventors before publication, and it doesn't require any illegal activity.
Anyway, if we all spent more time inventing instead of being paranoid the world would be a much better place.
Regards,
jeffc
agreed, for the most part. I've seen lots of corruption, but do not ahve specific experience in the given office. I'm simply paranoid via results in life. Breeds prudence, etc. As for the patent thing, I'm submitting a patent in a few days (nothing to do with stuff on this board) and am going to manufacturing and sales immediately. Wether the patent is accepted, issued or not, the product will still be sold. I did not want to submit a patent, but I was forced into it by three friends and business partners. They made me do it! :p
Quote from: Prophmaji on September 19, 2007, 01:22:21 AM
agreed, for the most part. I've seen lots of corruption, but do not ahve specific experience in the given office. I'm simply paranoid via results in life. Breeds prudence, etc. As for the patent thing, I'm submitting a patent in a few days (nothing to do with stuff on this board) and am going to manufacturing and sales immediately. Wether the patent is accepted, issued or not, the product will still be sold. I did not want to submit a patent, but I was forced into it by three friends and business partners. They made me do it! :p
Good luck with your application. One thing I wanted to add was that while I don't usually believe in widespread corruption, I certainly think the USPTO could use an overhaul to their system. To do a patent application "right" you usually have to spend lots of $$ on a good lawyer. And, even if you are fortunate enough to get granted a patent, its still not in any way a guarantee that you'll be able to enforce it to protect your invention. Protecting your invention means spending more legal $$ to go after those you think infringe.
So you can see, it can be expensive for an individual inventor to go through the whole process. But, in many cases, you really just want to have the IP patent pending or patented just to add value (real or perceived) to your business.
One cool thing about going through an application is that it forces you to think about all kinds of various potential uses for your invention, which could lead to some unexpected ideas. At least in that respect I get a little enjoyment out of it. Otherwise, its just lots of words and diagrams to write!
I would say that process isn't for everyone. But I'm also a guy who can appreciate both open source and IP, so most would probably think I'm crazy anyway. ;D
Regards,
jeffc
Take a look at http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Kostoff_Gravity_Machine
I did some google. Is the first link at http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=fuelless+gravity+filetype%3Apdf&meta= the device which bob kostoff has build?
interesting, to say the least.
????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you guys take a peek at their website?
PM motors and anything else....all plans under $50........
Quote from: whatever on September 20, 2007, 08:14:15 PM
????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you guys take a peek at their website?
PM motors and anything else....all plans under $50........
Right, PLANS is the key word...
Yet, the gravity plans and accompanying story certainly seem to match what Bob is showing on his website.
OK, so my question is...does this really work? I spent many years working on overbalance devices and I can't tell from the video if this is the real deal or not. I hope it is. The video on the site is shot from such a distance, you can't see if a motor is hooked up to the device or not. I don't mean to be a skeptic, I truly hope someone has done it. If I didn't think it could be done, I would never have worked on it. Are there any other videos of this device? I am not sure I understand the explanation of how/why it works. I am not calling into question the inventor's integrity at all, I just would love to understand if this is real or not. If it is real, I will happily drink a toast to the inventor.
Bill
Pictures are more than enough. The whole thing is right there. :) Patent law specifically permits single design examples are legal for the given individual to build and to study.
No, pictures are not more than enough, for me anyway. I am a licensed Private Investigator and I have to say, after reading all of the previous posts, this would make a good mystery case, or a bad investment, depending on your point of view. Every video of this I went to on youtube (following the posted links) it said "video removed by the user". Static pictures could be made to show anything. I agree with Shruggedatlas's earlier post about being too eager to believe. I want to believe but given the evidence and story thus far, it makes a better mystery novel than a scientific breakthrough. My apologies to Bob in advance if I am wrong, I would love to be proved wrong.
G'day all,
This is his latest design with video to follow it says elsewhere.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/how%20it%20works.html
Doesn't give much away, does it?
Hans von Lieven
Given the patent has been applied for it shouldnt be to much to ask to have someone take a look and independently validated it. This is the only way to avoid any speculation. up until that point it has little or no value.
Mark
Quote from: Prophmaji on September 13, 2007, 04:28:13 PM
Once again. I live less than 2 hours away from Bob. I can go check in on him.
Hi,
yes, please try to visit Bob and take a video camera with you and
make some video for us .
I will send you privately his phone number, so you can
make an apointment with him.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 20, 2007, 09:41:18 PM
I am not sure I understand the explanation of how/why it works.
I think the only explanation is the same as to why satellites gain energy when they travel near planets. This machine should be working on the same principle: energy is stored during 1/3 of the wheel travel path - mostly like in the case of satellites. The weight that goes from top to bottom is analogous to a small satellite, and all you need is to store the surplus energy. A simple weight without a small air-compressor tube or a spring with locker-zipper mechanism mounted on such wheel won't store any surplus energy, and it will eventually stop. The only important thing is that surplus energy is THERE: all you need is to store it.
Here is an update from Bob?s page:
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com./update.html
"Now that the patent has been filed, I am installing one at my house and will be self sufficient . Soon I will have it
running around the first week of November. This one will deliver over 2000 foot lbs of torque at 50 rpm.
After that maybe all the disbelief will be gone. (Aproximently 20 horse power with high torque and very low rpm.)
My goal is to engineer one around 40 horse power. Watch the papers or check back to the web site for updates.
The machines in the videos are of coarse only prototypes that have been used over and over to prefect
the units on a smaller scale. Many unforeseen problems have been solved, and now with confidence I can move to
the finished product. The machines will be aproximently the same size, but built much stronger."
Quote from: aleks on September 24, 2007, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 20, 2007, 09:41:18 PM
I am not sure I understand the explanation of how/why it works.
I think the only explanation is the same as to why satellites gain energy when they travel near planets. This machine should be working on the same principle: energy is stored during 1/3 of the wheel travel path - mostly like in the case of satellites. The weight that goes from top to bottom is analogous to a small satellite, and all you need is to store the surplus energy. A simple weight without a small air-compressor tube or a spring with locker-zipper mechanism mounted on such wheel won't store any surplus energy, and it will eventually stop. The only important thing is that surplus energy is THERE: all you need is to store it.
The amount of energy a satellite gains during a flyby is actually the same as what the planet loses in momentum. The amount lost by the planet is imperceptable, but it is there. So no net energy gain in the overall system.
In this case, since the orbiting bit is actually tethered to the center, it would be impossible for the rotating part to actually gain energy in the manner a flyby satellite does.
@all
IS somebody able to describe the aktuator mechanism?
helmut
Hi,
I'm new at this web site and very interested in Bobs machine. I have worked on the topic some time after I learned from a patent in Spain about the possibility of harnessing centrifugal force from a mass to make it deliver power in a circle. To my opinion, Bob is in the right path and seems to have achieved something that we already know. The problem is on HOW and if his machine does not build too much friction that will eventually ruin his purpose.
The physical principle is that the energy one mass turning can deliver is used to bring the opposite mass to the center of the axis at the very precise moment in which the first mass loses momentun on turning, and relays it to the second one that will act exactly as the first has done, that is, rotate freely so that the mass gains a lot of power in the centrifugal force and delivers it through the axel.
Springs, shock absorbers that transmit the energy to the othe mass, pins holding the first mass energy and releasing it to the other one when tinkered are the common means of the procedure. However, the problem is to tune it and how, as I said before. From the video it seems that you ese tubes as in any pneumatic mecanism.
The other problem I see form Bobs videos is that he uses a braking disk to help the machine rotate at a certain path and, something I have foreseen from the very beggining I started to work on this is the exponential energy delivered by the two masses on their centrifugal spining to be harnessed. If you do not harness it, the machine autodestroys itself. Thet is because the amount of energy obtained from the centrifugal turning of the two masses surpasses the resistance of the axis or the bolting to ground of the whole device.
Also, the braking disk means friction, apart from the one built in the sliding weights, and both of them will eventually bring to a stop the whole mechanism or destroy it though built in heat.
My advice to him is to downsize the weights and the whole mecanism and to reduce the diameter of the wheels to adjust them to the resistance of the generator so that the resistance of the generator in spining is used as an autobrake of the whole device, which is simple engineering on this topic. If he comes up with the proper size, there is no problem on making it produce energy constantly. The problem is not the amount of torque you obtain, as you say in your page. The idea is to get it working for a long time without mechanical failure. Once you get it, there is time to upscale it to the needed torque that a generator will need, and adjust the the size of the two masses.
I am eager to see and learn know how he comes up with it.
If you do, congratulations, Bob.
A vew days ago i got an email from bob.
quote:
Thank you for your interest in the machine. I am trying to respond to
all the Email that I have received, but that in itself is a big job.
I will be posting on the web site the progress of the construction of
the machine I am building at home. Hope to have it completed soon. It
will generate around 1200 foot lb. of torque @ 40 to 50 rpm. I have a
20K Watt generator that it will power.
And again, thank you for your interest.
Regards.....Bob
So he is still on topic.
helmut
Hi friends,
I hope Bob reads this post.
By Physics, what Bob tries to achieve is impossible. Yes? No?. I would say "Both".
Geting centrifugal force/energy from a spining mass is not impossible. I would stress that it is not new. And I do not mean that you have to put some energy into it to make it run. If it is done properly, you always get some more or a lot more from what you have put into it. If you do not do it properly, you get less.
What we are discussing is whether what Bob has made goes along delivering more energy than what he has put into it. And lets assume that is true.
The problem is that what you get from it will either STOP the machine at some point or, if you get less energy from what it delivers, it will accelerate and GABOOM, the whole invention goes through the garage door, the ceiling, both and maybe take you along with all the debris. Bob has probably experienced this, if what his first devices seemed to do, after what he has told us.
Bob says, and I do not have anything against what he says, that he has to unleash the brake and keep it partially on, with little pressure, so that the machine gets a regular pace and dos not run out of control. That means that the brake will eventually burn, no matter how small the friction is. And it also means that his device tends to accelerate, which is not what it should, in theory, do.
Now, there are means available today to have, either a refrigerated brake, or something else to prevent it from burning.
At this point I think there is enough topic for discussion. I am optimistic on the subject.
What I do not like is the encasing that he shows on the last posted picture of his device. If it is for protection, a good wire mesh could do perfectly so that we see what he has come up to.
Lets hope he tells us more about what he has done soon.
Regards
Fernando
Bob and all,
Great work Bob! How is the new wheel coming? Anymore video or photos? Looking forward to detailed plans on how to build.
4Tesla
*bump*
Anyone hear anymore from Bob? It would be nice to see this confirmed as a real working gravity wheel... anyone get to see it in person?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Hi friends,
It seems that Mr. Kostoff is perfecting his machine. On the 10th he posted a new message in his web.
Quote:"The Machining is tacking a bit longer than I had first estimated. With a little luck, I will have it finished around the end of December."
Lets hope that his luck -and ours- strikes on the right path and he comes up with something astonishing for the new year.
Season Greetings to all.
F.G.S.
I hope so... I want to believe, but need more proof. :)
4Tesla
snore!
Hi friends,
Bob seems to be moving forward, at least on the way he presents things. To the anouncement he made last week, he has changed the appearance and design of his page. Posts new data on what he is geting from the machine, as well as a new arrangement of the same videos. The third one is very clear, although the same one we have already seen, with the table in front jolting every time the device makes a complete turn.
Season Greeting to all.
Hi all,
Sorry my english, but I have one question.
Any one knows how Bob's gravity wheel works (less more).
Why? Because in my project of gravity wheel I have only 2 mass and some toth gears. No springs, etc.
But my project is very very close to Bob's machine.
I will build my gravity wheel in next week - so, I verify my theory in practice.
Regards,
SM
Quote from: korinsj on December 30, 2007, 09:13:27 AM
Hi all,
Sorry my english, but I have one question.
Any one knows how Bob's gravity wheel works (less more).
Why? Because in my project of gravity wheel I have only 2 mass and some toth gears. No springs, etc.
But my project is very very close to Bob's machine.
I will build my gravity wheel in next week - so, I verify my theory in practice.
Regards,
SM
Hello Korinsj
I guess at the time nobody knows exactly how it works. Bob told me ,that the rejektion works mechanic way.
In the German Sektion is a patentet wheel exposed.
Perhaps you can use some idea.At least it is a proof that many People try to use Gravity to drive a wheel.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3821.0/topicseen.html
If you have Questions because of Germen Language,dont hesitate to ask.
But how do you go to handle your Work ?
I would like you to Open Source your plans and provide us with Pics and
Video at a given time.So that a Replikation can be done, as soon as possible.
Or at least a sketch.
Good succsess
helmut
Bob updated his website. He tells in more detail how his machine works he said: [I have 1 drive sprocket to machine and install on the generator, and then I have Free Power]. end : at the end of his update
Here are the details posted:
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Information.html
The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8"). Remember the weights are joined so they have only 1/2 the distance of the total travel before there is no resistance. (12" on a 24" stroke).
The force of the weights turning now push both the weights out to the end.
The first two inches are the most difficult, so the closer they get to the center position, the weights balance out. as they pass the balance point (12") they go out to the end by them self and need a sizable cushion to stop them.
Remember the trick is that the weights are joined and the resistance is lessened to 0 as they reach the halfway point.
To stop the weights from impacting, I used a set of springs and two 25" air cylinders to absorb the shock of the weights as they reached the end.
I hope this helps. [I have 1 drive sprocket to machine and I have [Free Power].
=============
I thought it would work differently.
I did not know,that both weights are joined.
This way he is wasting power.
If he would only use one weight tobang against the peripherie and
use this impact energy to lift the other weight,
it would save him a lot of energy which could then be convered to
additional output power,as it would rotate faster then.
Regards,Stefan.
Its supposed to work with a compressed air engine and he dont talk about it so what he is talked about is not really the true device.
Its like 2% of the device, nothing is explained in detail.
In my opinion as long as he has a system that works he is doing a humanitarian deed, And is a Genius!
It is going to be a great year!
The question I have about his design is what powers the actuator arm to move the weights to the center 12?? Maybe the air strut catches the impact and stores air pressure that can be recycled? (Just thinking aloud) ???
I think he already said before that the cylinders and springs store the impact energy to help lift the weight(s) at the 6 o'clock position.....where it is released by a lever. Seems to make sense, compress the air cylinder during rotation and release it at the right position to (help) shift the weight up by half a stroke......
Bob if you're reading this can you confirm?
thanx!!
Regards
Robert
Hi all,
I have been following what Bob has said and have tried time ago to do something similar with little means. The idea of Bob is that if you put a weight at 12:00, it weighs A times 1. When the pendulum reaches 6:00, and depending on the lenght of the pendulum and the mass of A, with the addition of the centrifugal force plus the gravity acceleration, the energy obtained by A is A times N, which can be 4,5, or six or more times.
If you harness that excess energy gained by A, and transmit it to weight B, that is at the opposite end pendulum of A, and presumably of same mass A at the center of the axis, where energy is collected, but at a state of idleness, or so to speak at a state of petential force of energy, since it is connected to mass A, who has collected all the cinetic energy, and gives/transmits it to the connected B mass, you make it rocket to the end of the opposite pendulum B, receiving the energy obtained by A during its transit from 12:00 to 6:00, and carrying along mass A, which has encountered an end to its journey and ceases to continue gaining cinetic energy, stops and yields what it collected to B. Here you are initiating the whole process again though B.
It is simple but difficult to harness. From what Bob has unveiled, which is not extremely clarifying, it gives some light on how he has done it, with springs and shock absorbers that work pneumatically, that retain the energy gained and release it through trinkets positioned at the right place and moment. That is the reason for the tubes present in the pictures. I bet that they are crossed and exactly the same lenght on each side of the machine.
Since there are trinkets, stops, sliding wights, shock absorbers, springs and other friction supporting elements, if the whole device goes the way it should, we have to see how long it goes without maintenance or mechanical failure. In his video he mentioned a brake to make it turn at the right pace of revs per minute. That is another potential point of failure through friction which he has supposedly overtaken.
Anyway, if it works for a week without maintenance or little care it is a great success since it can be resized to yield much greater power and we can all start to go short on shares of oil companies.
Lets be cautiously optimistic and congratulate him if he has done it.
Happy New Year to all.
Fernando
Bob
Thanks to you for disclose it so far.
Will you sipply us a Video as well. Cant wait to see. :D
again Thanks very much.
helmut
Hi again,
What Bob says to have done is a doble pendulum with two atached weights that slide back and forth collecting the gravity plus centrifugal force to deliver its energy through the axis at which they are attached to the other mass that is rotating, to turn a wheel that will turn a generator at a given pace to obtain electricity deliverable directly without going through complicated or expensive rectifiers or other electrical conversion means. That is why he needed a certain pace of revolutions per minute, reduce friction and make the machine feasible to operate without much constant control.
The wheel obviously could go faster if it was allowed to bang on the extreme of the pendulum and transmit the energy to the other mass, should it not be attached to the first one. But, at the begining he said that the machine would destroy itself if it were left free because the energy would keep multiplying endlessly. That is pure logic.
So he needed to bring it to a pace through some means because he has only one generator tied to itself.
With a given mass and lenght of the pendulum, should the axis have different pulleys attached to it, in parallel, it could move more generators conected to it, sequentially until it and came to a point of resistance in which the pace would harness all the possible energy that by multiplication the machine could yield, without going through the risk of a fast pace, a high amount of friction and a sure and early decay of the materials he employs to build it. Therefore a sure an early mechanical failure. Moreover, the electricity obtained would be exponentially higher.
Since he does not calculate the amount of energy obtained in order to calculate the size of the generator/s that could be attached, he has deviced his machine to operate with one at a soft pace that will keep the machine operating at a reasonable and conservative pace.
But if you let the pendulum run at its potential, this is another means of extracting all the energy that the double opposite pendulum with the two equal masses can deliver in theory.
lets hope he sends us soon a nice, clear and enlightening video of what he has done.
Hate to burst anyones bubble, but I don't see any free energy, it is possible the device may have some over unity effect at the end of the day but not likely.
I think a little less excitement and step back and think about this from a physics perspective in basic form. Seeing physics flaws is my best attribute, sometimes it may take a day for it to click what it is, usually about 10 mins is good enough, this took about 5 mins.
1) a wheel of many descriptions and designs can be design to drop and turn past the start point many times, usually the most common is the arm that rotates once or twice before stopping.
DO WE ALL AGREE????? I am sure we do that this is common.
Now take one of these very very very very basic designs and add one thing.
OK "WHAT" is the one thing that now makes bobs machine?????
A brake !! the brake slows or stops the machine at the top of the second, third or whatever cycle in which the device is capable of maintaining centrifugal force, and then releases the device to start it again.
to gain a visual perspective of a well known device that has a long running momentum ability, picture the drinking glass bird, now imagine at some point during the swing cycle you hold the bird so it fully refills or partially refills to perpetuate the action.
The flaw is the brake, the mechanics required is massive force IE massive friction IE massive energy, thus the mechanical man and the power required to operate the brake at the required time would most likely outweigh the energy gained.
let the machine start to turn and stand back, if can keep turning without a brakeman, then i am more than impressed, but I imagine if it was the case of a working machine it would be in a local shopping mall on a trailer every day and at local universities for all to see and take notes (unless he intends to patent the device) in which case publication of the device voids patent ability in most countries except the US. so he would have a US only patent. (the US often allows publication for 1 year prior to patent, but not most other countries, certainly not Australia, Britain, and most of Europe where it would have a value) So disclosure by film has destroyed most of any patent claim anyway.
It's a nice drinking bird Bob, show me the eagle soaring without the brakeman.
Sadly it looks like it took a huge amount of engineering to rebuild the bird on a huge scale.
So my gift for Bobs effort will be to give him one of the first copies of the Sword in June, (at least with no power bill he'll eventually get his money back.)
eskimo quinn,
your statement made you look like a complete idiot. can you think or even concieve of a better way to use braking? if not may i present for your concideration, a load, like a generator!! wow you say i never thought of that , what a dumbass i must have been. if the generator still doesn't slow the machine then a brake may be appropriate again, however if this is the case why not just add another generator? maybe that would be too much power for some people!! dumbass
!
lol
sam
ps: oh, i see now, maybe we don't need a friction brake at all. except for testing.
what a nice polite response, supersam, then I'm sure that if i am wrong and such a -----, then you can enlighten us all by showing us the machine free spinning without a brakeman, I'm sure bob will oblige.
As for going so fast it will self destruct, i think basic physics even for a working perpetual motion machine will hit the speed limit wall as determined by the weight of the counterweight maximum momentum force, that is of course you understand that concept, oh sorry thats right that was missing from all of Bobs posts, his site and every reply to the device thread, that exponential force can never be applied as a term to momentum conducted by a set weight, or did I miss the counter weights getting fatter??? Oh large sponges that absorb moisture so as to gain weight and momentum. Genius !!! Hats off. well done how silly of me (would that make him sponge Bob?)
My apologies superman.
Quote from: hartiberlin on January 01, 2008, 08:36:07 PM
. . .
The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected
. . . .
If the weights lift when the barbell is vertical or at 12:00 then the lower weight does a little more than just follow. It doubles the load and doubles the effort needed to raise it 1/2 the diameter.
A single weight that develops energy over 180 degrees or a drop of twice the radius should equal two weights needing to be raised the radius (less losses due to friction, entropy, etc).
Bessler007, mib
Hi all again,
I think that I have devised what Bob means. The idea of having two weights rotating or giving extra force, as just posed, is wrong. if weight A is at one end of the pendulum and B is attached to it, but at the center of rotation, when A rotates 180 degrees, B is rotating at the center of the axis, so to speak at a point of radius 0 or the center of the circle, so it does not add any weight and therefore does not give any energy to accelerate with gravity plus centrifugal force.
In order to give you an idea of what I once devised with reciprocating pulleys of two masses, I understand what Bob has done.
Imagine two parallel shifts, rods, bars or any kind of means that work as a pendulum. Both of them rotate in parallel. One of them is tied to the axis where it will delever the energy.
The second parallel shift or pendulum has attached two weights (A and B) of the same amount of weight or mass, and travel along the parallel pendulum back and forth. Both weights, since the are attached to each other move in sincrony along the radius of the circle, they have a distance to travel which is exactly the distance between the axis, or the center of the circle and the end of the pendulum, that is, the radius of the circle.
In order to prevent mass A at 6:00 to break the end point, he has placed a spring there plus a stop end, where it will bounce back and get some backward energy to send A to the center. The rest of the system may be pneumatic or managed with springs tied to the center or anywhere else, in order to make mass A travel to the center of the circle at 6:00. Since mass B is attached with a fixed element, rod, shaft or whatever, it travels to 12:00 exactly after A has striked 6:00 when it receives the energy gained by A.
If that happens between 6:00, 6:02, 6:05 or 6:15 does not matter, the machine will make mass B position itself at 12:02, 12:05, or 12:15.
At that point, A becomes powerless at the center of the circle, while B becomes potentially powerfull gaining speed from gravity since it will travel to 6:00 and the cycle starts once again. Obviously, all this needs calculation of the force of springs, shock absorbers or whatever means he uses. Obviously, levers, trigers and other trinkets help B remaining at 12:00 at the end of the pendulum and A at the center of the circle. Otherwise it would not work.
Bob, not being a formal engineer, probably has arrived to it though trial and error, without calculations that would have saved him time and frustration.The bigger the mass and the longer the pendulum, the more power it will deliver. Obviously, there is friction in the machine and material wear through its functioning, but, if it works reasonably well, why not?. The longer it goes, the more energy it will deliver. Moreover, the slower it goes, the longer it will work before needing any maintenance, oiling of moving and frictioning parts and any susbtitution of worn parts, presumably the shock absorbers, levers and supporting points, not to count any of the moving belts he has installed.
On his benefit, the machine is simple, needs little to maintain it and you can make it bigger and put many in line to work on parallel to produce even megawatts, and what is more important, at a very little cost of manufacturing. It is a mechanical machine and quite simple, but very ingenious.
Now, what we need is Bob showing exactly how he moves his generator for a long time, without stops, maintenance or failure for a reasonable time.
lets hope this happens soon.
So far, what he says is the trick, the two attached masses, is right and it can work.
I am already thinking on how to try to replicate what he says.
by for now.
Quote from: fernando on January 10, 2008, 05:40:49 PM
Hi all again,
I think that I have devised what Bob means. The idea of having two weights rotating or giving extra force, as just posed, is wrong. if weight A is at one end of the pendulum and B is attached to it, but at the center of rotation, when A rotates 180 degrees, B is rotating at the center of the axis, so to speak at a point of radius 0 or the center of the circle, so it does not add any weight and therefore does not give any energy to accelerate with gravity plus centrifugal force.
In order to give you an idea of what I once devised with reciprocating pulleys of two masses, I understand what Bob has done.
Imagine two parallel shifts, rods, bars or any kind of means that work as a pendulum. Both of them rotate in parallel. One of them is tied to the axis where it will delever the energy.
The second parallel shift or pendulum has attached two weights (A and B) of the same amount of weight or mass, and travel along the parallel pendulum back and forth. Both weights, since the are attached to each other move in sincrony along the radius of the circle, they have a distance to travel which is exactly the distance between the axis, or the center of the circle and the end of the pendulum, that is, the radius of the circle.
In order to prevent mass A at 6:00 to break the end point, he has placed a spring there plus a stop end, where it will bounce back and get some backward energy to send A to the center. The rest of the system may be pneumatic or managed with springs tied to the center or anywhere else, in order to make mass A travel to the center of the circle at 6:00. Since mass B is attached with a fixed element, rod, shaft or whatever, it travels to 12:00 exactly after A has striked 6:00 when it receives the energy gained by A.
If that happens between 6:00, 6:02, 6:05 or 6:15 does not matter, the machine will make mass B position itself at 12:02, 12:05, or 12:15.
At that point, A becomes powerless at the center of the circle, while B becomes potentially powerfull gaining speed from gravity since it will travel to 6:00 and the cycle starts once again. Obviously, all this needs calculation of the force of springs, shock absorbers or whatever means he uses. Obviously, levers, trigers and other trinkets help B remaining at 12:00 at the end of the pendulum and A at the center of the circle. Otherwise it would not work.
Bob, not being a formal engineer, probably has arrived to it though trial and error, without calculations that would have saved him time and frustration.The bigger the mass and the longer the pendulum, the more power it will deliver. Obviously, there is friction in the machine and material wear through its functioning, but, if it works reasonably well, why not?. The longer it goes, the more energy it will deliver. Moreover, the slower it goes, the longer it will work before needing any maintenance, oiling of moving and frictioning parts and any susbtitution of worn parts, presumably the shock absorbers, levers and supporting points, not to count any of the moving belts he has installed.
On his benefit, the machine is simple, needs little to maintain it and you can make it bigger and put many in line to work on parallel to produce even megawatts, and what is more important, at a very little cost of manufacturing. It is a mechanical machine and quite simple, but very ingenious.
Now, what we need is Bob showing exactly how he moves his generator for a long time, without stops, maintenance or failure for a reasonable time.
lets hope this happens soon.
So far, what he says is the trick, the two attached masses, is right and it can work.
I am already thinking on how to try to replicate what he says.
On what Bessler007 has posted, he is right, the amount of energy needed to make B go from the center to 12:00 and A from 6:00 to the center is obviously double amount of weight, but... A has bounced a little at 6:00, depending on the force of the spring that stops its natural travel out of the circle, but.. the amount of energy athat A has gained at 6:00 its 4 or more times its weight, so there is enough energy to collect to send 2 equal masses back to the starting point.
@P-Motion
Just as i see it
helmut
@All
Bob ads a new sketch to his site .
It explains a little more,how his system workes.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Information.html
helmut
I admit that I was worried when the page of Bob simply disappeared from the server for three or four days.
What he tells us is part of what is obvious, the amount of torque that he says it produces (1500 pounds), assuming a certaint point over sea level can indicate us approximately the amount of weight he is using, and assuming also, that the length of the radius of the device that he has disclosed is exact.
What is worrying is the delays in the results. I insist on what I said earlier, not being an engineer, Bob is using his imagination plus a lot of trial and error method in his procedure. The other worrying point is the amount of friction points in the device that will require a certain amount of maintenance that will reduce its cost effectiveness ratio.
In this case, maths can be defeated if what I assume, and Bob says, is that part of the energy gained is used to make the weights bounce back, otherwise, the device couldn't work.
Lets hope the best and wait for the first results in time of operation and output.
@P-Motion
I have no Idea,what Bob is able or willing to disclose.
But it makes sence to me,that he will first learn on his own mashine,what are the border marks on the design.
Perhaps he feels responsible for the Security of rebuilders.There is no sales and buisness aspekt according
to his mashine on the web page.
He might feel not save ,because of the Reaction that might came from "big ernergy mafia".
I will write to him ones more and ask,how we can help or support him.
If he would show a vid,that demonstrate the working mashine,i would buy plans as soon as possible and
many others to.
So either we wait,or we make it working with our own Ideas.
helmut
Helmut,
It seems that he does not to want to make business out of his device, however, he might be very rightfully wanting to build units in order to sell them. He mentions that they can be built much cheaper than the smallest wind generator. Maybe he is waiting for some sort of answer from the patent office in order to proceed.
However, once proven that it can work, since the device can be built to much higher scale, he might want to collect royalties on it. What he cannot avoid is replicating on higher or smaller scale once known precisely how it works, worldwide. Just think on China.
He has posted a question on his web about how much torque a windmill can produce. The question says a lot about him. He does nor know anyting about the size of the windmill, the speed of the wind, the height over sea level at which the windmill is posted, the density of the air, not to mention the Betz coefient. All of this makes the answer impossible as such or, so to speak, give him a precise detail.
Fernando
@ P-Motion:
Excellent point!
Bill
Quote from: P-Motion on January 24, 2008, 07:41:32 PM... I wonder how 1500 pounds of torque could be generated within 16 inches of center.
Many times improving the standard design requires a Geometry change; an example would be an auto engine called the
MYT Enginehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6224324724976235267&q=myt+engine&total=25&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6224324724976235267&q=myt+engine&total=25&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)
http://www.angellabsllc.com/ (http://www.angellabsllc.com/)
- Schpankme
Quote from: P-Motion on January 24, 2008, 05:48:00 AM
What I do wonder is why he doesn't release details.
I'm afraid the response would be obvious and predictable. People would insist he is just mistaken. Chances he really made some mistake are not zero. On this internets, in stead of finding a single person who wants to help him he would rapidly collect a big crowd of nay sayers. Much more as to claim he made a mistake they wont do for him.
overunity.com is slightly less horrifying as the rest of the net but it's probably not the first place he looked. Then after getting slandered by say 10 or 20 people he is sure to shut up.
Reading up on the previous inventors he might also have swallowed his pride. 50 years of Joe Newman? CNN confirmed his device worked ? You think you are more convincing then that? If Joe is mad it most likely happened in the last 49 years. Any normal person would have gone insane after 2 days.
Look here, this is a great suggestion.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/garbage.html
Better as that inventions don't get. :) You tell me what there is so hard to understand about it?
Let me add: bricks, tungsten or radioactive waste can be burned just like coal exactly as described. Any real scientist will tell you it's impossible. Meanwhile youtube is full of videos showing just that and exactly that. What more is there to explain I wonder? What point is there in explaining anything in addition to this? Any nuclear physicist can do the experiment when-ever they feel like it. But it never happened.
After the submarine, the rocket to the moon, the thousand miles under the sea now the ""experts"" want to have a go at debunking Jules Verne's hot air balloon? How is that not laughable I wonder? It's preposterous! ::)
I'm afraid everything there is to know about this gravity engine is already on this guys website. We are just to blind to build it, which I'm sure defeats the point of talking with us. :'(
People are funnier than anyone.
Quote from: P-Motion on January 24, 2008, 07:41:32 PM
@helmut,
Since he has posted his videos and other information, his where abouts are known.
I don't think something gravity powered will power the planet. This is what makes me nervous a little bit. To build an actual working design and then have other people making claims based on what they don't understand.
With Bob, I wonder how 1500 pounds of torque could be generated within 16 inches of center.
Looking at it from a mechanical perspective, that's about 3 times as much as a Dodge Viper with a 10 cylinder engine. They have 525 pounds of torque.
http://trucks.about.com/cs/dodgeramsrt10/a/ram_srt10.htm
As i believe,we can be really happy,that some Inventors are brave enough to show there inventions free and open source via the internet.
Each of this presentation is a gift to interestet readers,but some are not worth to know about it.
Regarding to this matter,i am with Gaby de wilde ,as he states in a previous post.
In my own view, the situation is in some way so that one is free, to thonk of any thoughts .But usable when it comes to knowing, or sale of goods, one Border is faced immediately .one can not and should not do market everything .
Everyone has the desire, a machine work for them, and enjoy to life without his work .Aber because it is not for every man a robot, a man, the other people work for you.
This is often not fair and creates slavery.
Basically, we are tired of it all, to be dependent on money, and a fremdbestimmtes live f?hren.Deshalb we find ourselves again and again on these pages wieder.Therefore daily, we are on the lookout for new ways in which employers are independence.Unsere Robots not to our benefit, we must build.that ourself.
So it must be our objective, our mutual support, and the other to motivate them, and on their way to assist with appreciation.
Ney Sayers are like fleas in the fur.
Such people slow down any thought to zero.
It need not even in geschehen.Deshalb intention, I ask every reader, being aware of it.
It has been proven that the spiritual activities in ingenious solutions to m?nden.Aber needed open space and inspiration.
Finished products are available on the shelves of department stores.
Who now benefit from new ideas, it must itself turn into a product, or wait until they are bought.
I think that Bob is an invention with great potential made hat.vermutlich he is not the first to have done such a thing.
But he is one of the first to see to the infinite reach of the Internet is used, while thousands of interested contemporaries.
Something has since Babylon in this proportion is not given.
By penetrating this medium can and should make use of each.
2008 will be the year of free Energie.Das birth year of the new term.
helmut
Quote from: gaby de wilde on January 24, 2008, 11:23:11 PM
Look here, this is a great suggestion.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/garbage.html
Better as that inventions don't get. :) You tell me what there is so hard to understand about it?
You must be joking.
Let me just quote that page:
QuoteBy adding a unit such as an electrolysis machine you can produce all the hydrogen you need for free. This can be used to power your your car or incinerate garbage.
Hydrogen burns at around 3000 degrees so as a result almost everything that is being burnt by this process will be totally incinerated and as we all know, the only byproduct of Hydrogen is water.
Filters can be put on the smoke exhaust that can trap all the harmful chemicals and they can be dealt with in a much smaller capacity as all the bulk would be gone.
That is just a bunch of humbug!
First of all the production of hydrogen by electrolysis is NOT free, you need to input as much (actually slightly more) energy as you get out in the form of combustible hydrogen.
Second, "totally incinerated" only means "reduced to a gaseous oxide form", it does not mean "disappeared". The byproduct of burning garbage (inlcuding harmful chemicals) is not just water, it is also all the oxidised matter that you burnt, including the potentially harmfull materials, and even creating some more toxic fumes that were not in the air before you burnt your junk. So the "only byproduct" is not water, the reaction products are water vapour and various, including toxic, fumes. Air pollution.
Third, yes, filters could be used to filter all toxins out of the fumes, but to produce and clean these filters will cost considerable money and energy, which will need to come from somewhere. So we have the input for the electrolysis device, the input for the filter production facility, and the input for the filter cleaning facility, all needed to dispose of the suggested garbage.
How exactly is that free?
Quote from: gaby de wildeLet me add: bricks, tungsten or radioactive waste can be burned just like coal exactly as described. Any real scientist will tell you it's impossible.
I do not believe there are many scientists that deny the fact that anything will burn if you heat it hot enough. Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?
QuoteMeanwhile youtube is full of videos showing just that and exactly that. What more is there to explain I wonder? What point is there in explaining anything in addition to this? Any nuclear physicist can do the experiment when-ever they feel like it. But it never happened.
What "experiment" do you mean? The burning of garbage?
Not surprising nuclear physicists don't waste their time burning garbage in my opinion; they have fuel rods and geiger counters to check... ;) Garbage disposal is left to people in that branch of industry, obviously. If you were a bus driver, would you go and repair the hubble telescope, or would you stick to driving your bus? ;)
Or are you referring to the suggested "free" energy in the link you provided? Well that just remains to be proven... I don't see any.
If you are simply saying that all low enthropic state materials can be reduced to high enthropic state while freeing energy that can be used, then of course you're right,
but that's also nothing new. Enthropy, gotta love it. But don't forget, in order to burn them, we first need to make the low enthropic structures like bricks, tungsten rods, and radioactive materials. They don't just grow, you know. We need to refine the base materials, work them, alter their material structures, shape them, until we finally have turned our raw mineral ores and other raw sedimentary materials into the neatly ordered and structured objects like bricks and tungsten rods, and even the quite unnaturally concentrated and nuclearly altered fission materials. Then, we can burn these structures, releasing energy stored in its structure and chemical composition.
But can we ever get more energy out than we put in? Nope.
So what exactly are you so worked up about, Gaby?
QuoteAfter the submarine, the rocket to the moon, the thousand miles under the sea now the ""experts"" want to have a go at debunking Jules Verne's hot air balloon? How is that not laughable I wonder? It's preposterous! ::)
Excuse me?
I must have missed something... Who's trying to debunk the hot air balloon??
The gravity engine in the attached pdf is VERY similar to Bob's and well explained.......have a look!
regards
Robert
@ dutchy
The Fuelless Mashine i know since long time .There was a Video via Youtube and shows all moving Parts in Detail.But someone took it from there.
Thanks for the pdf.It will help others to imagine,how the design can be done.
@ Koen1
Some Month ago,someone came up with a prossedure to restrukture waist from garden in to cole
just during the night.
To me it was a breakthrough.But the Newspapers did not present it as a sensation.
Nature needs tausend of years to do the Job.Now one is able to do it over Night.
Yes,there is a input of energy nessesary,but just emagine:if this Energy is produced as free Energy made in a gravity supportet Mashine,than ,many things become reality,including the production of oxygene as a secondary product.
It is known,that dioxides need a high temperature to be burned.But after that,there is no toxic particles left .Thats,what we have learnd about it.
But who knows,perhaps right tomorrow we have an other lesson to learn.
helmut
Well, a gravity driven machine sounds great to me :)
I'm just saying that whatever you burn, it has to come from somewhere, and there's only so much energy gain
as was put in originally...
Now I don't know what overnight coal thing you're talking about,
but the artice on using hydrogen to burn waste only says
you can make hydrogen, and burn that, and use that flame to burn your waste.
Yes, you can do that. Be dumping a lot of fumes into the air, but it'd get rid of your waste...
I think Bob is talking about brown gas or HHO
Could be... but what's that doing in a thread titled "Gravity wheel"?
Need some Help to see sketches according to some Patents
JP11173255 74/64 SEMI-PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5921133.html;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6363804.html
thankx in advance
helmut
@P-Motion
Well done.
Here i get empty pdf pages only.
Thankx
helmut
Quote from: helmut on January 26, 2008, 05:37:30 PM
Need some Help to see sketches according to some Patents
JP11173255 74/64 SEMI-PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5921133.html;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6363804.html
thankx in advance
helmut
Hello Helmut,
There is a Japanese link where you can have free online translation from Japanese patent texts into English.
First go this site and click on PAJ (in the left hand column): http://www.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/homepg_e.ipdl
You get to the Searching PAJ page (dismiss the pop-up window of language pack download offer, it is not needed).
If you need JP11173255, you have to rewrite this like 11-173255, ok? And click on Number Search icon on the right.
Now copy and paste 11-173255 into the empty window and choose
Publication Number, then click Search.
You receive a page with the title of the Japanese patent and click on the blue publication number. You will receive the Abstract in English (this is usually the same as the abstract text at the European Patent Office) and if you click on the DETAIL icon in the upper pink coloured menu line, you will get the clickable text translations of the patent in English in a new Search Result window.
Regarding the USA patents, there is a reliable link for them, giving full drawings and not broken ones:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/ and entering the USA patent numbers you will receive them in freely downloadable PDF files.
Good luck,
Gyula
Quote from: gyulasun on January 27, 2008, 07:27:31 AM
Quote from: helmut on January 26, 2008, 05:37:30 PM
Need some Help to see sketches according to some Patents
JP11173255 74/64 SEMI-PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5921133.html;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6363804.html
thankx in advance
helmut
Hello Helmut,
There is a Japanese link where you can have free online translation from Japanese patent texts into English.
First go this site and click on PAJ (in the left hand column): http://www.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/homepg_e.ipdl
You get to the Searching PAJ page (dismiss the pop-up window of language pack download offer, it is not needed).
If you need JP11173255, you have to rewrite this like 11-173255, ok? And click on Number Search icon on the right.
Now copy and paste 11-173255 into the empty window and choose Publication Number, then click Search.
You receive a page with the title of the Japanese patent and click on the blue publication number. You will receive the Abstract in English (this is usually the same as the abstract text at the European Patent Office) and if you click on the DETAIL icon in the upper pink coloured menu line, you will get the clickable text translations of the patent in English in a new Search Result window.
Regarding the USA patents, there is a reliable link for them, giving full drawings and not broken ones:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/ and entering the USA patent numbers you will receive them in freely downloadable PDF files.
Good luck,
Gyula
@Gyula
Tanks for the lesson
helmut
Bob made updates
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Information.html
January 24 2008
Just to let you know about my progress on the new machine.
To-day I tested the machine and found that it very quickly
started the 20000 Watt generator into motion. Approximately
3/4 of a turn and the generator was almost up to speed. The
force on the transmission was so great that it pulled the bearings
out of line and the drive chain started jumping. I guess I will have
to weld blocks either side of the bearing housing to hold them
in place after they are re aligned. I will also have to reinforce the
frame as well as it showed signs of stress as it was turning. The
force developed by the machine is 1500 lbs at the drive sprocket.
An engineer I'm not. But I am learning. With any luck I will have
ready to go Wednesday, (again). All reinforced and re aligned.
This time over built. I was amazed to see how it twisted the 4"
channel frame I had fabricated.
Bob made updates
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Information.html
Quote from: P-Motion on January 28, 2008, 08:36:55 AM
Helmut,
Can I ask a favor of you ?
What it is, I have made a web page about a principle I believe Bessler used.
I live in an apartment and am working with hand tools. Not sure how it will work since I prefer a mill and aluminum.
Am wondering if it were translated into German that you could post it in a German forum.
What I would be hoping for is that since Bessler was a German, is that someone who lives in Germany and can hold tolerances would be willing to give it a go.
The web page in English,
http://www.geocities.com/not_so_fast_ii/index.html?1201525983921
Quote from: helmut on January 27, 2008, 03:58:11 AM
@P-Motion
Well done.
Here i get empty pdf pages only.
Thankx
helmut
Hello P-Motion
If you want me to convert your Web Page into German language,it will be a pleasure to do that.
Or if you want your invention to be discussed in a german forum,i will help as well.
But i guess,it will take some time,because i need to learn,how it should work or function.
If there are another sketch or simulation,please led me see it.
helmut
Orffyrius (Bessler) also said quite clearly that
"the weights work in pairs" and
"it works with 6 weights, although 8 weights works better"...
So where are these pairs of weights totalling 6 or 8, depending on the exact type of wheel, in your design?
Also, he made a few different versions; in his original versions the wheel only spun in 1 direction, and could start spinning by itself,
in later versions the wheel could spin in both directions, but it needed to be started by hand in the preferred direction.
Or at least, that's what I remember from my Orffyrius studies. ;)
And, in the context of your pendulum design, how do you explain the witness statements that they heard a loud knocking
sound come from (one side of) the wheel every 1/8th rotation (or 8 knocks per rotation)?
I would assume that sound came from each of the 8 weights slamming into the wooden drum"wheel" that contained the mechanism...
That however seems to indicate that the wheels mechanism changes position 8 times per rotation, and that every position shift
is accompanied by one of the weights hitting some part of the wooden "wheel" on the inside...
@p-motion,
in that case, i would think sperical weights would be even better, because of even more reduction in surface area. hence, more reduction in friction.
lol
sam
@P-Motion
pls. see my Sketch and lets clear some terms.
I just draw it ,as i would take a interpretation.But i am not shure to get it right.
helmut
Since Yesterday bobs page can not be opened.
Perhaps he adds new information now.
helmut
now it is making more sense to me.
thanks for the graphic drawings there guys.
peace
[just to receive notifications from this thread]
Indeed he has updated the site
Just a little note to let you know I have taken a brake from the machine for a little bit and have been working on the electrolysis machine. So far I have been able to produce a liter of hydrogen every fifteen seconds or so. After the weekend I hope to have the volume increased to 1 liter every second. Just have a few things I have to work out and after I install a filtering system, it should be good to go.
Sorry to tell you P-Motion. Your design will not work as a perpetual motion. By just looking at it I can know, but nice try anyway. Good luck in finding the key.
-regards-
Quote from: enigma on February 26, 2008, 03:49:09 PM
Indeed he has updated the site
Just a little note to let you know I have taken a brake from the machine for a little bit and have been working on the electrolysis machine. So far I have been able to produce a liter of hydrogen every fifteen seconds or so. After the weekend I hope to have the volume increased to 1 liter every second. Just have a few things I have to work out and after I install a filtering system, it should be good to go.
Am I the only one that finds this strange?
You're on the verge of constructing a world changing device, test it.... it breaks down, needs a few days to fix (to strengthen it). Then you stop it and go do something else....... :-\
Robert
Maybe he have been contacted by MIB!
Then somebody have to steal his first invention and make it public in the name of humanity.
Ok, seriously.
lets asume his first invention do really work.
In his last invention he mentioned that the torque was so hard, that broken even the bearings, and he needed to reinforce the bearings.
Ok, what i can conclude (remember to asume his first invention worked), is that the friction of his first invention was not a factor to the device, but in the second, because of the weights and torque is so high, the friction then become a really negative braking force.
Maybe he is frustrated because his first machine worked and he was sure the second will.
What i think is that he need to build a "parallel" configuration of small ones to get the torque he's trying to obtain, instead of making a "big ole" one.
Why is nobody living near him visiting him and give us a real good video report ?
As it seems Bob is having trouble with his video equipment, it would be nice if someone from the forum would visit him and help him to make a good video, so we can finnally see, how his machine really works.
As he already has patent protection this is no big deal to show it to interested parties.
Please let us know.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
I'm just glad to see Bob is still around.I first learned about him last Sept in 2007.While it seems a lot of people have doubts.I know myself that things take time.Between living and working and family.I fear most that Bob's newest version will injure or kill him before he makes plans of the working model to sell.I want to be one of the first to buy plans from Bob.triffid
I could be wrong... but i think this is the correct form of this thing... or 45 degrees less... well, not the way it was introduced by obvious reasons :)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpabo.com.pa%2Fjoe%2Fgravity.jpg&hash=3fc64ec37b192492cafa1994b6c7e6b63b7e7132)
I think if you find a way to store the energy of the rotation R from P1 to P2... and release it to the weight at P2 to make it climb to P3 (or a little more) probably make the cengrifugal force displace the weight to the full right again.
Also found the centers of the sprokets and the way they interesect with weights very supicious...
Look at this video and tell me if you need explanation.
http://pabo.com.pa/joe/weighty.avi (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/weighty.avi)
Quote from: Scorpile on April 07, 2008, 06:49:07 PM
Look at this video and tell me if you need explanation.
http://pabo.com.pa/joe/weighty.avi (http://pabo.com.pa/joe/weighty.avi)
@Scorpile
Thanks to share with us
helmut
Found plans for this gravity machine. looks real exciting. I don't know if its exactly the same device or what but looks workable. Also found out that bedini may be working on this gravity design along with some electrical input. the plans I found did have input to the machine. link about 13th down the list. Nice pdf file with diagrams and parts shown
http://www.google.com/search?client=googlet&q=The%20Fuelless%20Gravity%20Motor%20
Quote from: vzon17 on June 22, 2008, 06:01:29 PM
Found plans for this gravity machine. looks real exciting. I don't know if its exactly the same device or what but looks workable. Also found out that bedini may be working on this gravity design along with some electrical input. the plans I found did have input to the machine. link about 13th down the list. Nice pdf file with diagrams and parts shown
http://www.google.com/search?client=googlet&q=The%20Fuelless%20Gravity%20Motor%20
Doesn't that use solenoids to imbalance the wheel?
It uses an air cylinder to lift the weight to a balanced position. evidently it does this at the 6 oclock position and then centers both weights so they are spinning on center. I think then it goes like that for one rotaion and then it is shifted off center again for the next power stroke. It would make more sense to do the shifting at the 5 oclock and 11 oclock positions since they are spinning and have enertia there would not be much loss at all and shifting the weight at 12 oclock would not produce any torque so doing it at 11 oclock would be better.. one thing that is rarely mentioed is that there is added torque acceleration when you pull the weight inwards. think of a figure skater when the are spinning and pull their arms in which make them speed up their rate of spinning. so one could actuall gain turning force in the action of centering the weights. off centering them can be done by centrifugal force when its up to speed, these two could cancel each other maybe.
hrmmm interesting I have seen this video several weeks ago on youtube I kinda wondered about it ever since archer has been at work with his gravity wheel design...
Definately interesting...
I live in Richmond Hill, 1 1/2 hrs. from Port Perry, Ontario. ( Bob's place, no?)
I've been reading here lately.
If someone could hook my up with Bob, I'd be happy to go over and see this big spinner.
The air cylinders start going after the machine does a few rounds, could be real.
Chas Campbell's first video in the news report, his wheel is flying along making all kinds of power.
I found one that shows Chas describing the wheel and the pool balls, going back to the first video there are no balls to make the wheel go. Very fishy. Also very fishy why there is not any description of Bob's wheel, just a "it works".and "I've got a bigger one".
Anyhow I'd be more than happy to spend more than the price of gold on gas to see that arm thing go.
Today i was trying to visit bobs website.
It seems,that bobs Homepage is for sale
Can anybody clear up the situation?
helmut
It was still there just last week.
I'm dying to get a design....still.
Quote from: SteveK on July 19, 2008, 10:37:36 AM
It was still there just last week.
I'm dying to get a design....still.
do a search after bob kostoff
Or you can ask stefan about his telefon nr.
I was going to look him up and just go over, but I'm sure he would not appreciate that.
What is this teflon nr? Stefan?..
Quote from: SteveK on July 19, 2008, 12:42:46 PM
I was going to look him up and just go over, but I'm sure he would not appreciate that.
What is this teflon nr? Stefan?..
Stefan is hartiberlin and the owner of the forum here.
He might have the call number from bob kosthof.
ones he had
@All,
I just read thru this thread the other day, so I never got to look at Bob's site. I'm thinking about trying to build the device and threw together a Knex model, just to get your opinions on the design before I try a real build. It doesn't have the springs at the end and you can't see the cam that would be under bottom middle, but shows one of the levers to move the weights half way. The lever would be actuated by the green slide. The red bars are for sliding and grey bars at the bottom are for weight attachments. I had to make the blue lever bars that long to allow them to close all the way at full movement.
As I understand it at 4:00, the cam moved the first 4" with the help of the unlatch spring, which was compressed by the centrifugal slam force and latched. The lever then moves it 1" pass middle.
Regards, Larry
@Larry
I would like to see more details of your prototype.. I think this project has potential! I have wanted to make one using magnets.
Jason
Quote from: vzon17 on June 22, 2008, 08:36:02 PM
It uses an air cylinder to lift the weight to a balanced position. evidently it does this at the 6 oclock position and then centers both weights so they are spinning on center. I think then it goes like that for one rotaion and then it is shifted off center again for the next power stroke. It would make more sense to do the shifting at the 5 oclock and 11 oclock positions since they are spinning and have enertia there would not be much loss at all and shifting the weight at 12 oclock would not produce any torque so doing it at 11 oclock would be better.. one thing that is rarely mentioed is that there is added torque acceleration when you pull the weight inwards. think of a figure skater when the are spinning and pull their arms in which make them speed up their rate of spinning. so one could actuall gain turning force in the action of centering the weights. off centering them can be done by centrifugal force when its up to speed, these two could cancel each other maybe.
I ordered plans for this device October 2007. According to the website it is guaranteed to work. I never built it because the solenoid looked labor intensive and I wasn't sure it could deliver the required energy, although I'm planning on performing some mathematical calculations in the near future to see if it's feasible. I think what makes me wonder is if this company, Creative Science has plans for a working device, then why isn't it manufacturing them?
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 21, 2008, 06:38:24 PM
@Larry
I would like to see more details of your prototype.. I think this project has potential! I have wanted to make one using magnets.
Jason
When Bob's website was up and operating he encouraged people to e-mail him for more information. I did e-mail him about six months ago but received no response. I still really don't understand how his machine works.
Hi (and sory for my english)
This is my idea: 2 weights with 3 tooth gears:
- big tooth gear in centre - stationary with 2*N tooths
- two small tooth gears with N tooths
When wheel not moving, everything is balanced in all position.
But when wheel moving, we have additional forces - something like in Milkovic patent.
Below I attach GIF animation.
SM
Quote from: korinsj on July 22, 2008, 01:47:13 AM
Hi (and sory for my english)
This is my idea: 2 weights with 3 tooth gears:
- big tooth gear in centre - stationary with 2*N tooths
- two small tooth gears with N tooths
When wheel not moving, everything is balanced in all position.
But when wheel moving, we have additional forces - something like in Milkovic patent.
Below I attach GIF animation.
SM
The wheel seems to be balanced in every position, having a 0 net torque. How would it accelerate in your opinion?
There is still information here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Kostoff_Gravity_Machine
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 21, 2008, 06:38:24 PM
@Larry
I would like to see more details of your prototype.. I think this project has potential! I have wanted to make one using magnets.
Jason
Okay, Still keep in mind that I don't actually have the springs and the second required lever. The first clock position at 4:00 was stated by Bob. The rest are just my best guess without actual testing.
Pos 1: shows the arm at 4:00 where the springs would be unlatched and a cam would be used to lift the first four inches with the help of the energy from the compressed spring. The cam is shown at 8:00, it would actually be placed under the top of the circle, with curve starting at 10:00. At this point you can only see the one black weight at the end, the other one is under the orange above center.
Pos 2: The arm is now at 4:30 and the cam has finished its lift and the green slide is just starting to hit the actuator lever to pull the weights a little over half way. Now you can see both black weights.
Pos 3: The arm is now at 5:30 and the actuator lever has slide off the green slide. At this point the centrifugal force should take over. Now the black weights are just a little over balanced to the top.
Pos 4: The arm is now at 6:00 and the spring would have been compressed and latched by the centrifugal force slam.
After this, the unit would go around and start the process again with the second actuator lever(missing).
Please keep in mind that I am trying to replicate Bob's self-powering motor shown at the beginning of the peswiki article, not the creative science version.
Regards, Larry
What do you think of starting at 6-8 instead of 4-6? Edit: Bob probably tried both.. We'll stick with 4-6. I'll make a graphics version, to help others understand how it works.
I hope this will better show how this device works.
I have made a graphic of the movement of the weights (the best I could.. not good at graphics). The two weights are attached together and move together. At illustration "A" or at "4:00" the weights will be pushed up half way by a spring, air, or magnet. At illustration "B" or "5:00" the weights have moved up half way. At illustration "C" or "6:00" centrifugal force pulls the weights up the other half to the top. At illustration "D" start the cycle over at "A".
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 22, 2008, 10:06:36 PM
I hope this will better show how this device works.
I have made a graphic of the movement of the weights (the best I could.. not good at graphics). The two weights are attached together and move together. At illustration "A" or at "4:00" the weights will be pushed up half way by a spring, air, or magnet. At illustration "B" or "5:00" the weights have moved up half way. At illustration "C" or "6:00" centrifugal force pulls the weights up the other half to the top. At illustration "D" start the cycle over at "A".
Jason
Well actually, this is incorrect. According to the build instructions from the website, the wheel is off-balance only from 12:00 to 6:00. At 6:00 the weights are pushed back into equilibrium for the remainder of the cycle. Just before 12:00 the stored energy is released forcing the weights off-balance again. Otherwise the wheel would slow down and stop.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 23, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
Well actually, this is incorrect. According to the build instructions from the website, the wheel is off-balance only from 12:00 to 6:00. At 6:00 the weights are pushed back into equilibrium for the remainder of the cycle. Just before 12:00 the stored energy is released forcing the weights off-balance again. Otherwise the wheel would slow down and stop.
Is it 6 or 4.. I have heard both... anyway it shows how the device works.
Jason
I assume that you have the same drawings? The ones I have show the actuator firing at the 6:00 position. However, the air cylinder is offset from the 6:00. Do yours show the same thing?
I don't have any drawings.. are they in this thread?
There's a link in reply 192 to the actual drawings and details of a very similar machine.
Thanks.. I'll take a look.. I was going off memory from a year ago.. It has been quit some time since I've been to this forum.. the only thing I don't know is starting point and how long it take for the weights to get to the other side, the ending point.. I'll look at the drawings and might make another graphic.
Thanks again,
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 23, 2008, 04:25:46 PM
Thanks.. I'll take a look.. I was going off memory from a year ago.. It has been quit some time since I've been to this forum.. the only thing I don't know is starting point and how long it take for the weights to get to the other side, the ending point.. I'll look at the drawings and might make another graphic.
Please see Bob's reply at #83 for the 4:00 statement. That is the machine I would like to build, not the creative science version. It has all the design that is needed in #192 link.
Regards, Larry
Hi everyone.
Sorry if its not in the right place but I got an idea...
The gravity weel represented on the pdf file from post 192, the is a king of pump on the below right?
So what if instead of using compressed air or elector-magnetic thing, we use a king of piston with a strong north north magnetic repultion?
You will say but you'll lose the energy to clode the magnet each other equaly that they will be repulsed.
Ok so now what ifwe had a king of hamster weel, where the buttum magnet is, moved by a belt or something from the gravity weel. And we use mumetal all around the weel but the part the gravity weel need the more strengt to go.
The gravity wheel can go down freely and when it slow a bit, the magnetic field is released and kick up the wheel.
I know the will be some energy losses with another weel and belt but its gonna be very light so...
I know my english is howfull and my poor vocabulary it's not helping ...
Could that be of any help?
btw, I got some people to impress so if its the thing who change the world, can you guys talk about me?
we could even use a more usual weight moved gravity wheel instead of the original fly wheel of this plan no? It would at least give more inertia energy...
Quote from: LarryC on July 23, 2008, 05:35:54 PM
Please see Bob's reply at #83 for the 4:00 statement. That is the machine I would like to build, not the creative science version. It has all the design that is needed in #192 link.
Regards, Larry
Thanks Larry! Good luck with your build.. keep us posted. I don't totally understand how the springs and latches work.
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 24, 2008, 02:16:29 AM
Thanks Larry! Good luck with your build.. keep us posted. I don't totally understand how the springs and latches work.
Jason
I also don't know. Will have to learn.
@Walter Singletary,
Are you still out there? You're machine was working in your second to last post. Any pics, drawings, help would be appreciated.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on July 24, 2008, 09:35:57 AM
I also don't know. Will have to learn.
@Walter Singletary,
Are you still out there? You're machine was working in your second to last post. Any pics, drawings, help would be appreciated.
Regards, Larry
Larry,
If you figure out the latch and lever mechanism, let me know. I've got a small model completed up to that point.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 24, 2008, 09:09:30 PM
Larry,
If you figure out the latch and lever mechanism, let me know. I've got a small model completed up to that point.
Sure, and I hope that anyone else watching will do the same. I've seen many failed gravity machines, but I think this one has a good chance because of the capture and reuse of the centrifugal force. The work by Veljko http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html shows there is available power from centrifugal force created by gravity and Bob seems to have found out how to apply it more directly.
I have attached all of Bob's comments that I could find on this thread to help with the build.
Regards, Larry
Thanks for compiling his comments! Yes I think this device has potential! Also some of the magnet gravity wheels look like they could work!
Jason
Here's my take on how this potentially works.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 25, 2008, 11:33:54 AM
Here's my take on how this potentially works.
I've included a heavy gate latch pic that may work for heavy compression springs, may require two if jamming. Even a regular door lock with a handle could work depending on the spring strength. The handle could be hit with a stop to release.
Not sure if you're trying to recreate Bob's machine. But he used the huge centrifugal slamming force created as the weight is slung from the mid position to the edge. The spring and latch is used to save that energy to help with the hardest part of the reset(first couple of inches) at 4:00. First with a cam then a lever. But please ignore my comment, if you're just trying a new design.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the reply.
Seems that I have it backward :P. Yes, it makes more sense to use the springs the way you mentioned.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 25, 2008, 12:41:10 PM
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the reply.
Seems that I have it backward :P. Yes, it makes more sense to use the springs the way you mentioned.
Great, looking forward to your next drawings. Also, the two people that have created this machine before (Bob and Walter) have not been heard from since. Now it could be they got to close and the machine clobbered them or whatever, don't know. But it is best to keep everything open for safety.
Also, please keep in mind, that the latch has to occur at the end of the centrifugal slam before the springs can push back and loose the centrifugal force gain.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
I went back and re-read the comments that you put together from Bob. There seems to be a couple of scenerios given that I'm trying to reconcile:
"The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. "
Does this mean "the rest of the way" to the center or to the other end?
and:
"The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8").
So is it centrifugal force or an actuator arm?
Quote from: noonespecial on July 26, 2008, 10:18:16 AM
Hi Larry,
I went back and re-read the comments that you put together from Bob. There seems to be a couple of scenerios given that I'm trying to reconcile:
"The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. "
Does this mean "the rest of the way" to the center or to the other end?
Here he means to the other end.
and:
"The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8").
So is it centrifugal force or an actuator arm?
Here he means to 1" more than half-way.
Picture it being slung like a skeet from the slinging mechanism but using the momentum built up in the Bob's device.
Checked some hardware out this morning. Thinking of using steel flat bar and the heavy grooved rollers that are used under a patio sliding door for the weight carrier. Got any better ways in mind?
Regards, Larry
Has anyone heard from Bob or what has become of his machine lately?
Back online.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Information.html ???
Regards, Larry
Glad he is still around.. looks like he is now working with HHO..
Bob -
Quote
Just a little note to let you know I have taken a brake from the machine for a little bit and have been working on the electrolysis machine. So far I have been able to produce a liter of hydrogen every fifteen seconds or so. After the weekend I hope to have the volume increased to 1 liter every second. Just have a few things I have to work out and after I install a filtering system, it should be good to go.
I've been playing with the weight return portion of this which seems to be the most challenging part. I've put together a drawing based on some of Bob's comments that possibly could work. However, it would rely heavily on the potential compressed spring energy.
Take a look and let me know what you think.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 28, 2008, 10:05:43 AM
I've been playing with the weight return portion of this which seems to be the most challenging part. I've put together a drawing based on some of Bob's comments that possibly could work. However, it would rely heavily on the potential compressed spring energy.
Take a look and let me know what you think.
Great thinking. Set it up on Knex and works correctly except for the cam setup. Glad you figured out that 2.5" and 10" comment. The cam setup may have to be changed "A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8")."
Wondering which video could you see the mechanism?
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on July 28, 2008, 12:16:22 PM
Great thinking. Set it up on Knex and works correctly except for the cam setup. Glad you figured out that 2.5" and 10" comment. The cam setup may have to be changed "A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8")."
Wondering which video could you see the mechanism?
Regards, Larry
The only video that I've seen is the one where he is standing next to it. Just to the right of where he is initially standing you can see some arms bobbing up and down. I've watched this video several times and what's interesting about your quote above is that the weights only appear to travel the 12" distance before the start of the first revolution and the very last before he stops the machine. If you watch the connecting arm as it goes around it doesn't appear to move very far at all???
Can you show a video of Knex working?
Is Knex a software simulator?
Edit: found it on google.. it is a construction set..
OK....its official. I'm a total idiot! I can't believe that I missed this part. Stay tuned...I think I have something that will get us closer!
Quote from: noonespecial on July 28, 2008, 01:17:10 PM
Can you show a video of Knex working?
A video wouldn't help, to hard to move without falling over. So I took the start and end picture. The ruler is hard to see in the second picture, but the center pivot point moved from 5 1/2" to 7". Glad you asked though, it doesn't seem enough of a percentage move.
It seems like a lever of this kind would have to be on the fixed lower base and would be picked up as the arm hit 4:00 and released and spring back as the centrifugal force takes off with the weights.
Regards, Larry
This thought came to me while I was mowing the lawn and I went back and looked at the video again. I don't believe that he ever really said that the weights traveled back and forth like I originally envisioned. The video (which is really hard to see...I wish Bob would take mercy on us and throw us a few more hints :) ). Anyway, it would seem that this, while its still probably not exactly what he is doing, would take less effort to achieve. Let me know if you don't understand what I tried to show.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 28, 2008, 08:32:26 PM
This thought came to me while I was mowing the lawn and I went back and looked at the video again. I don't believe that he ever really said that the weights traveled back and forth like I originally envisioned. The video (which is really hard to see...I wish Bob would take mercy on us and throw us a few more hints :) ). Anyway, it would seem that this, while its still probably not exactly what he is doing, would take less effort to achieve. Let me know if you don't understand what I tried to show.
Forgot to mention your earlier comment about the arm not moving. Had seen it, but though it was due to the high speed of the arm, taking more time to sling the weight.
About your new design, easier but don't think it is what Bob's was doing. Look at the pic that I attached. At the bottom of the arm you can see the four springs being pressed down by the weights and the four rods pushed thru. At the top you can see the unpressed springs with the contact bar that the weight would hit. It appears that the weights are sliding on/between the wide flat steel bars on each side. The weight connecting bar must be behind the arm, offset to miss the center axle. Just hope we don't need the large shock and piping. I think the base has the actuator arm and cam, see the metal bars. Unless it junk, what purpose other than to assist?
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
I remember seeing this earlier design on his website. This one obviously doesn't rotate. I think the article that referred to this picture mentioned that it went back and forth like a see saw.
(edit) This was the sentence I was remembering but I guess it did rotate.....
"The machine ? which only requires a little bit of start-up juice before it creates enough power to sustain itself - works much like a teeter-totter, using a series of sliding weights that, with the help of the earths gravitational pull, force the unit to continue spinning around in a circle."
The latest one from the 2007 video seems to be quite different. I stepped though it second by second and it didn't appear that the weights moved very far at all and seemed to rotate which is why I thought about this new design.
Take another look at the video and see what you think.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 28, 2008, 09:49:15 PM
Hi Larry,
I remember seeing this earlier design on his website. This one obviously doesn't rotate. I think the article that referred to this picture mentioned that it went back and forth like a see saw.
(edit) This was the sentence I was remembering but I guess it did rotate.....
"The machine ? which only requires a little bit of start-up juice before it creates enough power to sustain itself - works much like a teeter-totter, using a series of sliding weights that, with the help of the earths gravitational pull, force the unit to continue spinning around in a circle."
The latest one from the 2007 video seems to be quite different. I stepped though it second by second and it didn't appear that the weights moved very far at all and seemed to rotate which is why I thought about this new design.
Take another look at the video and see what you think.
In the video, after the brake release and the other side comes around you can see the large shock that is in the picture. I still think the picture is a front view of the machine in the video. The front view is deceptive as the two flat side plates can be very thin.
Also, think that the weights are just moving later when the machine is at high speed. In fact, the machine would probably need some kind of speed related timing cam and actuator arm changes to work at it's most efficient at different speeds.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
I made some modifications to my last design and I think I will go with that one. Mainly because I have the material on hand and second, I'm still in the dark with regard to Bob's. If I can get it to work, I'll be back and post my results. If you get Bob's design to work, let me know.
Best,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on July 29, 2008, 08:44:23 AM
Hi Larry,
I made some modifications to my last design and I think I will go with that one. Mainly because I have the material on hand and second, I'm still in the dark with regard to Bob's. If I can get it to work, I'll be back and post my results. If you get Bob's design to work, let me know.
Best,
Charlie
Okay, best of luck on your build.
I noticed something else in the picture. Right below the weight close to the center is a bellow shock (need to blow it up to see it). The air cylinder tubing is run to the center and distributed to the bellow shocks with other tubing. He may not be using springs here because the cylinders energy can be stored and release when needed. This way he only has to have a latch that can handle the end springs in compression. Makes the 'machine will tear itself apart' comment, more understanderable, now that I see he is absorbing the impact of both weights.
Since I do not plan on building a machine that large, I still hope it can work just using springs on both weights.
Regards, Larry
LarryC:
Thanks for posting that picture. I think I learned a lot when I zoomed in on it. This is the best
photo of this device I have ever seen. You can even read the clock in the background. (2:05)
I have been following this topic for a long while now. After seeing this photo, I believe this guy might have actually done it. The hydraulic hoses bothered me for a while but now I see they rotate with the device and appear not to lead off to a pump anywhere next to the machine. Thanks again for the photo. Much better info than in the video I watched.
Bill
I contacted this fellow quite some time back and there were 3 things that impeded progress. 1. Hospitalization. 2. The frame was ripped apart during a test and was being re-engineered. 3. He was working on some other project that was consuming his time while he awaited the re-engineering.
I haven't heard anything new, has anyone else?
Cheers,
Harvey
I think the only relatively new thing is that his website is back on line. It appears that he is off looking at hydrogen generation at this point and has taken a break from the gravity wheel so I don't expect any new updates any time soon.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 13, 2007, 03:53:33 AM
Bob,
I hope you understand Open Source and how we work around here.
peace.
I think he was invited to come and describe his work, not give it away. I've seen many of the invites on youtube.
Quote from: Hugo Chavez on July 30, 2008, 04:47:26 PM
I think he was invited to come and describe his work, not give it away. I've seen many of the invites on youtube.
I agree. It would be extremely unfair to Bob to expect him to come here and give away his design after what appears to be years of trial and error and hard work, for us to reap the benefits through no effort of our own. He has already divulged more than a lot of others would have.
Quote from: noonespecial on July 30, 2008, 06:12:21 PM
I agree. It would be extremely unfair to Bob to expect him to come here and give away his design after what appears to be years of trial and error and hard work, for us to reap the benefits through no effort of our own. He has already divulged more than a lot of others would have.
He has the patent applications that are in process. We are not here to reap the benefits, only to replicate so that others will believe it does work because of our replications and to spread thruout the world that such a wonderful device exist. It is also a safety barrier to him (from the energy barrons) when others can replicate. And yes, we need his help!
Regards Larry
Starting with a small wheel is good.. his was too big, hence the frame falling apart. How long are you both making the armature?
Jason
Armature?
arm/wheel...
Mine is 18". Should be large enough to see if it will work.
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 30, 2008, 07:03:58 PM
Starting with a small wheel is good.. his was too big, hence the frame falling apart. How long are you both making the armature?
Jason
I did some stand along sling testing and as expected the longer lengths have an advantage, so I'm going for 24" on each side of the arm, same as Bob's, but with less weight. I still have some issues to work out so I'm sure I will take longer than Charlie.
Regards, Larry
4 feet! I think I'm going to try 2 feet (24" or 12" on both sides from the center). Do you use any graphics software? I'm learning the freeware GMAX 3D model software. It takes awhile to learn, but they have a great tutorial. I plan on using it to design my gravity wheel. Check out the pyramid by Nightwynd using GMAX http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5172.msg115152.html#msg115152
Jason
I agree with Larry that a longer arm will produce more power. I'm going to try and compensate by using more weight. I'll be slinging about 4 pounds of steel weights. I've got the arms and weights completed but now I have to build a new stand because this design rotates off of one side. The cam will be stationary and will mount to the other side.
I may add in locations for flywheel weights for good measure if required.
Sorry for the interruption.
I just could not resist the temptation of explaining the theory of the Bessler Wheel according to the Lee-Tseung lead out theory. Please see:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2794.msg117433.html#msg117433
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 31, 2008, 01:46:20 AM
4 feet! I think I'm going to try 2 feet (24" or 12" on both sides from the center). Do you use any graphics software? I'm learning the freeware GMAX 3D model software. It takes awhile to learn, but they have a great tutorial. I plan on using it to design my gravity wheel. Check out the pyramid by Nightwynd using GMAX http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5172.msg115152.html#msg115152
Jason
GMAX is great, but a lot to learn to use.
I going to also try Google SketchUp and eMachineShop.. anyone know of other easy to use FREE CAD/Model/Graphics software to get your design ideas on to the computer. Sounds like Google SketchUp is easy to use.. I'll let you know.. I'll also check out eMachineShop.
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on July 31, 2008, 06:50:49 PM
GMAX is great, but a lot to learn to use.
I going to also try Google SketchUp and eMachineShop.. anyone know of other easy to use FREE CAD/Model/Graphics software to get your design ideas on to the computer. Sounds like Google SketchUp is easy to use.. I'll let you know.. I'll also check out eMachineShop.
Jason
Yes, I would also like to get better with Google SketchUp, but I have my basic design drawn and spending to much time looking for other solutions.
Bob's said "springs have to be compressed for the first revolution". So both outside springs are set for the first revolution, implying that the springs are latched, easy to do with my gate latch solution. But when the machine starts in the vid the weight is lifted to the top, indicating that the weights are also latched in the up position.
Regards, Larry
Great info.. I didn't think about where the weights were on start.. have you figured out how to release the springs?
Jason
Quote from: LarryC on August 01, 2008, 12:10:45 AM
Bob's said "springs have to be compressed for the first revolution". So both outside springs are set for the first revolution, implying that the springs are latched, easy to do with my gate latch solution. But when the machine starts in the vid the weight is lifted to the top, indicating that the weights are also latched in the up position.
Regards, Larry
Isn't this where the cam moves the weights the 4" and a actuator arm moves them the 8" effectively latching the weights? I mentioned before that it "appears" that this only happens one the first revolution and the last. Could be a speed activated thing or just an optical illusion as it doesn't appear to travel the same distance in between.
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 01, 2008, 08:46:23 AM
Isn't this where the cam moves the weights the 4" and a actuator arm moves them the 8" effectively latching the weights? I mentioned before that it "appears" that this only happens one the first revolution and the last. Could be a speed activated thing or just an optical illusion as it doesn't appear to travel the same distance in between.
Charlie
Good point, Charlie. I plan on making my actuator arm like I showed in pic #249 except straight when full open. So I could put some type of easy break lock on the center pivot that would keep it fully open at the top. I found that it's pull is really slow and powerful at the beginning of actuating when straight and will try it instead of the cam. Love that Knex.
The optical illusion statement may be correct, like certain spinning objects where the center remains solid and the ends disappear.
@Jason,
Please look at the gate latch pic in #267. I plan on having a stop hit the handle on the back for release.
Regards, Larry
PS: The 4 and 8 just bring weights to midpoint.
Quote from: LarryC on August 01, 2008, 10:07:56 AM
PS: The 4 and 8 just bring weights to midpoint.
I originally thought he was saying that this (4" + 8") was for raising the weights from midpoint to the top ("The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8"). to latch them to start.
He gives a couple of different travel distance descriptions apparently saying the same thing which is confusing. In one place he says that he raises the weights to midpoint and centrifugal force carries it the rest of the way (this wouldn't work of course unless we assume some acceleration factor). And in another he says the weights are raised 1" beyond midpoint which would definitely work.
Charlie
Quote from: Harvey on July 30, 2008, 04:00:23 PM
I contacted this fellow quite some time back and there were 3 things that impeded progress. 1. Hospitalization. 2. The frame was ripped apart during a test and was being re-engineered. 3. He was working on some other project that was consuming his time while he awaited the re-engineering.
I haven't heard anything new, has anyone else?
Cheers,
Harvey
I e-mailed him back in March(08) but never received a response.
If you are still around Larry, I just wanted to report my progress. I had my design almost completed but couldn't get the connecting arm geometry to work the way I wanted. So....I'm going to plan B which is a modified Bob wheel. I'll include a picture here and be back later to explain my thinking and I would be interested in your feedback. Talk to you soon.
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 04, 2008, 07:44:48 PM
If you are still around Larry, I just wanted to report my progress. I had my design almost completed but couldn't get the connecting arm geometry to work the way I wanted. So....I'm going to plan B which is a modified Bob wheel. I'll include a picture here and be back later to explain my thinking and I would be interested in your feedback. Talk to you soon.
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the info. It always help to report problems to save others wasted time. Do you have a drawing of the arm geometry?
And yes, I'm still around, got most of my parts this weekend, developing and will start testing in a couple of days. I'm sure it will take a lot of adjusting to get it working, if I can.
I do think I understand what you are trying to do with your new design and it seems correct mechanically. But, you don't seem to be capturing the centrifugal slam force anymore. I believe that is the only reason that Bob's machine may work when all other gravity machines fail. I think Stephan has also made a comment about saving the centrifugal force in another thread.
I watched Bob's movie more and don't think it is an optical illusion of not coming up at 12:00, back to the belief that the arm is not coming all the way up until after 12:00 due to the speed. Noticed at the end when he is slowing it down it starts to increment up around 12:00.
Regards, Larry
PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force a fictiitious force ???
Quote from: LarryC on August 04, 2008, 09:55:37 PM
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the info. It always help to report problems to save others wasted time. Do you have a drawing of the arm geometry?
Yes, I'll post it for you later today if I get a chance.
QuoteAnd yes, I'm still around, got most of my parts this weekend, developing and will start testing in a couple of days. I'm sure it will take a lot of adjusting to get it working, if I can.
Sounds great! Can't wait to see it.
QuoteI do think I understand what you are trying to do with your new design and it seems correct mechanically. But, you don't seem to be capturing the centrifugal slam force anymore. I believe that is the only reason that Bob's machine may work when all other gravity machines fail. I think Stephan has also made a comment about saving the centrifugal force in another thread.
Actually, I do but on a smaller scale than on Bob's machine. One thing that concerns me about how his is supposed to work is that there will be a tremendous centripetal vector force at 12:00 which seems counter-intuitive. In other words, the massive weight wants to keep traveling outward and would seem to impede the rotational momentum. Which brings us to your next point....
QuoteI watched Bob's movie more and don't think it is an optical illusion of not coming up at 12:00, back to the belief that the arm is not coming all the way up until after 12:00 due to the speed. Noticed at the end when he is slowing it down it starts to increment up around 12:00.
Which means that the weight may not actually be "slamming" to the end like we originally suspected or something else is going on.
QuotePS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force a fictiitious force ???
Very interesting article. Helps to understand that there are multiple forces going on here.
Best regards,
Charlie
Hi Larry,
This was the design I was working on. I was attempting counter-rotational weights to maintain momentum, but the connecting arm didn't work the way I was hoping it would. There was a point between 4:00 and 5:00 where it would stick. I was going to attempt to make the arm adjustable when I came up with my latest design. So I will shelve this one for now and work on the new one.
Charlie
PS - I don't know about anyone else but ever since Stephan moved the database, I've been having a heck of time accessing the forum. It can take up to 5 minutes for a page to load and I'm on a 5M line. ???
I don't believe the slam is the key to getting this wheel to work, but it may be if you are trying an exact replication. I believe a modified version of Bobs wheel will work, as I am working on a design that doesn't rely on storing the centrifugal energy, but it does rely on the centrifugal force to move the weights.. just doesn't store it.
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on August 05, 2008, 06:37:42 PM
I don't believe the slam is the key to getting this wheel to work, but it may be if you are trying an exact replication. I believe a modified version of Bobs wheel will work, as I am working on a design that doesn't rely on storing the centrifugal energy, but it does rely on the centrifugal force to move the weights.. just doesn't store it.
Jason
I will look forward to your design.
Reading between the lines on some of Bob's comments (and viewing the video) I don't believe that the weights "slam" at the ends at all but rather accelerate and then are "slowed" or cushioned by a combination of the shock absorbers and springs. He mentions that without these the machine would destroy itself. If the weights were allowed to "slam" the end of the arm, I don't believe it would work.
Charlie
As a "slam" would be wasted energy also.
Jason
Hi Charlie,Jason,
Sorry Charlie. I tried to respond earlier but had worst problems then you did.
Maybe we are getting caught up in the terminology and it may be my fault as I don't like to repeat the whole statement every time.
Bob's comment: Once the weights are past the ballance point they accelerate and generate many times their weight that creats the the energy needed. The faster rotation the larger the force.
This is why I think we need to capture the centrifugal slam force in springs that do slow, get compressed, cushion the blow, latch, and save the energy to help return the weights to the top. That is what I mean when I say capture the centrifugal slam force.
Another words, if we can capture a 'many times their weight' force, that is the only way a one rotor gravity machine can possibly work, otherwise the physics is totally against us as Charlie observed at the 4-5 stick. Good mechanical design but cannot beat the physics.
I am working on doing this with a fixed latch, but I am concerned that the latch may need to be variable rather than fixed. A variable latch would be more like a sliding saw blade type rod used for height adjustments and better to adjust for rotational speed.
Regards, Larry
PS: Thanks. It is such a pleasure to work with people who are all helping to accomplish a common goal.
Quote from: LarryC on August 05, 2008, 11:43:22 PM
This is why I think we need to capture the centrifugal slam force in springs that do slow, get compressed, cushion the blow, latch, and save the energy to help return the weights to the top. That is what I mean when I say capture the centrifugal slam force.
Hi Larry,
I hope you don't think we are saying you're wrong.. just saying that it might not be the only way to get the wheel to work.
Jason
Hi Charlie
Trying to understand your pic in #311. Is that an orbital gear around the central axis?
Thanks!
Quote from: squegee69 on August 06, 2008, 04:39:12 AM
Hi Charlie
Trying to understand your pic in #311. Is that an orbital gear around the central axis?
Thanks!
No. Nothing that fancy... ;) Its a simple cam and the smaller circles the cam follower. I showed it in phantom because it was mounted separately on the other leg of the stand. The cam lifts the rotating follower (and connecting arm) up lifting both weights. Because of the offset, the bottom one would go counter-clockwise and the top, clockwise. It worked exactly as expected up until around 4:00 where it hit a "wall" and couldn't lift its own weight. The new one I'm working on will only have to lift one weight instead of both which should get me over the wall.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 06, 2008, 10:01:24 AM
No. Nothing that fancy... ;) Its a simple cam and the smaller circles the cam follower. I showed it in phantom because it was mounted separately on the other leg of the stand. The cam lifts the rotating follower (and connecting arm) up lifting both weights. Because of the offset, the bottom one would go counter-clockwise and the top, clockwise. It worked exactly as expected up until around 4:00 where it hit a "wall" and couldn't lift its own weight. The new one I'm working on will only have to lift one weight instead of both which should get me over the wall.
Regards,
Charlie
That is an awesome concept - don't give up the fight! I was thinking if you mounted an orbital gear offset on the main axle, and two smaller pickup gears instead of cam stops (one on each side) on the slider shaft, you might be able to accomplish as the slide pushes the smaller gear back onto the orbital and forces it back to true (like a pendulum), but this is all in my head and unmodeled - I always seem to hit that same wall in practice. Keep up the good work.
Peace!
@All,
Forget my gate latch solution for anyone trying to replicate Bob's machine. Got the weight holding units together today with a latch post. But ran into a problem with the gate latch setup. It is to difficult to unlatch under pressure with just 7 lbs and with saved centrifugal force it would be impossible. I will be changing to a regular door knob setup as they open pretty easy even with your body weight pressed against the door.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
How were you activating the latch? Could you modify it so that there is less of a right angle where it catches?
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 06, 2008, 06:38:33 PM
Hi Larry,
How were you activating the latch? Could you modify it so that there is less of a right angle where it catches?
Charlie
I was manually sliding the latch mechanism onto the latch rod connected to the 7 lb box. Then lifting it and pulling on the release pin. Very difficult with 7 lbs and at this point my design would have the springs connected to the 7lb box, so the tension would be some multiple. The catch is a small arc. I was looking at modifying the latch catch, little difficult and it may cause latching problems. The door knob latch seems much better at releasing with many times the weight.
Now this baby could sling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet.
Check out this modern efficient design http://www.trebuchet.com/firstfat
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 06, 2008, 10:33:46 PM
I was manually sliding the latch mechanism onto the latch rod connected to the 7 lb box. Then lifting it and pulling on the release pin. Very difficult with 7 lbs and at this point my design would have the springs connected to the 7lb box, so the tension would be some multiple. The catch is a small arc. I was looking at modifying the latch catch, little difficult and it may cause latching problems. The door knob latch seems much better at releasing with many times the weight.
Now this baby could sling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet.
Check out this modern efficient design http://www.trebuchet.com/firstfat
Regards, Larry
Sounds good. Will you rotate the door knob to retract the latch?
Regarding the trebuchet, it seems as if its identical to Bob's machine but going in the opposite direction. In other words, Bob is raising the weights and slinging them down and the trebuchet is vertically dropping the weights and slinging the weights up. Hmmmmm. Let me think about this.....
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 07, 2008, 09:10:43 AM
Sounds good. Will you rotate the door knob to retract the latch?
Regarding the trebuchet, it seems as if its identical to Bob's machine but going in the opposite direction. In other words, Bob is raising the weights and slinging them down and the trebuchet is vertically dropping the weights and slinging the weights up. Hmmmmm. Let me think about this.....
Regards,
Charlie
Yes, I'm going to use a cheap non-locking knob and screw a handle to it which will be hit by a stop. But because of the release direction I have to change my design to go counter-clockwise instead of clockwise.
Another observation on Bob's video, when he first starts to brake at the end you see it at the top, then the next one is back down, then the end one at the top. He had talked about maintaining a certain speed for his generator. The video has a low frame rate, so it may be the top clips are just not caught by the camera at the controlled speed. In fact on that second to last one, you can easily see the missing frame, where it appears to be coming up then jumps off to the side.
The trebuchet is very interesting, just think if you intercepted the missile at release point and stored the energy, then used that energy plus gravity for the next launch.
The momentum from a falling object cannot return the object to the top, but how much extra energy is required to return the object to the top? Bob starts with his top springs compressed. I don't expect the sling from Bob's machine to be near as efficent as the Trebuchet but it may be enough to keep it running.
Regards, Larry
Well here's a concept drawing that I did based on using the trebuchet form. Might be something in here we could use. It appears that it could have the same bone-crushing torque ;D as Bob's....
Quote from: noonespecial on August 08, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
Well here's a concept drawing that I did based on using the trebuchet form. Might be something in here we could use. It appears that it could have the same bone-crushing torque ;D as Bob's....
NIce design!
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on August 08, 2008, 12:21:43 PM
NIce design!
Jason
Hi Jason,
Thanks. I'll be curious to see what Larry thinks as well. Of course, we don't know if this would work in real life or not. I wish I had a good modeling program but I don't.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 08, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
Well here's a concept drawing that I did based on using the trebuchet form. Might be something in here we could use. It appears that it could have the same bone-crushing torque ;D as Bob's....
Very interesting design and quick thinking on your part. I'm on the fence as to whether it will work or not ???
I'll knex if you want, but the only problem I see is between step 3 and 4, where the end roller would slide thru the weight, but easy to correct.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 08, 2008, 05:22:54 PM
Very interesting design and quick thinking on your part. I'm on the fence as to whether it will work or not ???
I'll knex if you want, but the only problem I see is between step 3 and 4, where the end roller would slide thru the weight, but easy to correct.
Regards, Larry
Sure! Knex please. Maybe that will tell us whether or not it could work. Of course you'll probably have to tweak the weights and arm lengths but if you have time, that would be great!
Thanks,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 08, 2008, 09:18:46 PM
Sure! Knex please. Maybe that will tell us whether or not it could work. Of course you'll probably have to tweak the weights and arm lengths but if you have time, that would be great!
Thanks,
Charlie
Sorry Charlie, the Knex is good for modeling mechanical movements, but pops apart with anything but very light loads. So no weight testing, but can run thru the movements of your design.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: noonespecial on August 08, 2008, 09:18:46 PM
Sure! Knex please. Maybe that will tell us whether or not it could work. Of course you'll probably have to tweak the weights and arm lengths but if you have time, that would be great!
Knexed. In your drawing we'll call them step 1, 2, 3 and 4.
In 2 the weight catcher is all the way down and the ball is not at the top. It will continue to try to push the weight catcher down until the ball is directly over the pivot.
Inbetween 3 and 4 the Roller End slides thru the weight notch out the other side.
Inbetween 4 and 1 the levers jam. If the ball end of the arm is on top, to be able to pass over the weight catcher then the weight catcher arm will run into the pivot. Also, would jam if reversed.
@Jason,
How are you coming with your cad study? Any recommendations?
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the review. As I was thinking about this, this morning I realized the problem with the arms but I have designed a way so that none of the arms interfere with each other. Also, I thought up a different scheme for the larger weight which make everything easier.
I've decided to shelve my last design in favor of this one because I think it has the most promise and have started to build a model.
I'll keep you guys posted of my progress.
Regards,
Charlie
Here's one way to keep the arms from hitting. Probably hard to replicate with Knex.....
Charlie
Hi,
New here and I am building a wheel that I am losing faith in. But, I drew this up today and think it has possibilities. What do you think. I know it is hard to see and is sort of jumbled but it's all there.
Bob
Quote from: LarryC on August 09, 2008, 04:31:23 PM
@Jason,
How are you coming with your cad study? Any recommendations?
Regards, Larry
I guess Jason has been busy. I hope that's a good sign. I've downloaded Phun and have been playing around with that. Not a very extensive help file so I've been feeling my way around. In Phun, I've got my design to go around up to 7 times and with a little more tweaking I hope I can keep it going.
Larry, how are you coming?
Regards,
Charlie
PS....Kudo's to Stefan for buying more bandwidth or employing some other magic because it seems that I can access the forum much easier!
Hi guys..
Sorry for the late response. I have played with GMAX, and Google SketchUp for 3D work.. Google may be easier to use. I have played with eMachineShop for 2D work.. I find eMachineShop to be the easiest yet. I also use Vizimag for magnetic simulations and a SPICE simulator for electornics. I haven't tried Phun.. I'll give it a try.
I don't have any drawings yet.. but I'll try to explain my idea.. I am thinking of a small 2 foot (60cm) wheel and using magnets for the weights.. north facing both ends and then having a magnet at the base to repel the magnet weight up. I think that there is enough down force to break any magnetic wall.
Some Useful Links:
GMAX - 3D (free)
http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax
Google SketchUp - 3D (free)
http://sketchup.google.com/
eMachineShop - 2D (free)
http://www.emachineshop.com/download/index.htm
Vizimag - magnetic simulator (free to try for 30 days / $40USD)
http://www.vizimag.com/
Multisim SPICE Program - this is the best free SPICE simulator that I know of
http://www.analog.com/en/design-tools/dt-multisim-spice-program-download/design-center/index.html?ref=ASC1285
ExpressSCH - great free software for drawing schematics
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_schematic_software.htm
Educational Innovations
http://www.teachersource.com/ElectricityAndMagnetism/Magnets.aspx
Jameco Electronics
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
Bulk Wire
http://www.bulkwire.com/
United States Plastic Corportation
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp
The Big Bearing Store
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/
Online Metals (and plastics)
http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm
Online Metal Supply
http://www.onlinemetalsupply.com/
Speedy Metals
http://www.speedymetals.com/
Small Parts
http://www.smallparts.com/
K&J Magnetics
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp
CMS Magnetics (don't use credit card - use PayPal)
http://www.magnet4sale.com/home.php
Jason
Quote from: alaskabobb on August 12, 2008, 05:49:58 PM
Hi,
New here and I am building a wheel that I am losing faith in. But, I drew this up today and think it has possibilities. What do you think. I know it is hard to see and is sort of jumbled but it's all there.
Bob
Welcome Bob!
Jason
I'd like to add:
www.emovendo.net (magnets)
www.sdp-si.com (bearings and shafts)
Both of these websites are good and have typically lower prices. K&Jmagnetics has more selection of magnets but they are generally only N42 and more expensive than emovendo (which only sells N48's and at a better cost bargin).
Thanks!
Edit:
This is a great place to get Clear PVC Pipe by the foot! (very hard to find)
Aquatic
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2480/Clear-PVC-Pipe
Quote from: noonespecial on August 12, 2008, 06:44:18 PM
I guess Jason has been busy. I hope that's a good sign. I've downloaded Phun and have been playing around with that. Not a very extensive help file so I've been feeling my way around. In Phun, I've got my design to go around up to 7 times and with a little more tweaking I hope I can keep it going.
Larry, how are you coming?
Regards,
Charlie
PS....Kudo's to Stefan for buying more bandwidth or employing some other magic because it seems that I can access the forum much easier!
Can you save simulations with Phun or make movies with it? If so could you post your simulation? What are you using to make your drawings? - Thanks, Jason
I think Stefan just has a temporary fix for the site.. he still plans on moving it to a better host when he gets back from vacation.
Jason
Quote from: noonespecial on August 12, 2008, 06:44:18 PM
Larry, how are you coming?
PS....Kudo's to Stefan for buying more bandwidth or employing some other magic because it seems that I can access the forum much easier!
First I would also like to thank Stefan for his efforts, I'm sure it was a lot harder than most of us realize.
I picked up the new door knob latches this pass weekend. I am halfway thru getting them installed. I have the main body, slides, weight boxes, levers, and main spindle working. Also, as I'm sure this will be a tweak fest, I will be using bungee cords instead of springs during the test phase. They should be easier to adjust and modify than springs. So maybe by Friday I'll have some info to report.
I am really looking forward to testing how much addition force is required to move the weights to the midpoint + 1".
Thanks, Jason and Charlie for the cad update. This may end up being more important than our physical testing.
@Jason and Charlie_V
Thanks for the additional resources.
@ alaskabobb
Welcome, Great that you are trying knew designs, but your drawing has me confused.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 12, 2008, 11:58:00 PM
Thanks, Jason and Charlie for the cad update. This may end up being more important than our physical testing.
I just tried to load a Phun file for you guys but apparently you can't upload a .phn extension. I would strongly suggest using one of these modeling program to save a lot of trial and error. Unfortunately there is no 'save as' so I can't show you what I've done in another format.
Looking forward to your update Larry!
Best,
Charlie
Hi Larry, Thanks for the welcome. I'll try to state in other words how it is supposed to work. Each inner wt. is 4LBS. Each outer is 3LBS. Weights are hooked together by cables and in some cases have to go over pulleys to pull each other in the right direction. The inner wts. are used to pull the outer wts to where they need to be. The inner wts are 4lbs but only pull 2lbs worth of pull on a individual outer by use of a tension spring that takes 2lbs to stretch it out, so it only pulls 2lbs. then as the wheel turns another inner weight comes into play and pulls another 2lbs. Thus pulling the outer wt into a favorable position. There are times when there are slack lines. When I state "strait through", I meant for instance, that a wt was pulling from arm 1 to arm 4. The large circled number is what I perceive to be the "leveraged" weight of that arm. I start the inner wt at 1lbs because it can't be at the center and thus has wt on the lever. The outer, I start at 4lbs,because it is just beyond half way up the arm. I realize that I probably don't have the math down on the leverage, but moving a weight out twice as far doubles its weight force. The two numbers with the "+" sign and an arrow to a weight is the numbers of the arm that the weight is acting on or being acted upon by. So picture a maze of cables or strings with extention (tension) springs in line and some pulleys to reverse the pull at some points. The total weight on the falling side should be heavier than that of the rising side. So to pull a outer wt out(Say arm 1), it takes the inner wt on the arm directly across (arm 4) and the inner wt on the next trailing arm (arm 3), to lift it. The inner wt on arm 4, also lifts on the outer wt on arm 2. Now at the bottom of the rotation the outer weight needs to be pulled in and this done by the inner wts again but in different combinations of inner wts than they were pulled out by. For instance, Arm 4's outer wt is pulled in by the inner wts on arms 1 and 2, so the arm strait across and the next arm leading it. And so on. Hope this helps. I don't have time to build it right now, but if someone wants to, and it works, I'd be inclined to share patent rights. Or they can just buildit and use it for themselves. Alaskabobb
Quote from: noonespecial on August 13, 2008, 10:06:23 AM
I just tried to load a Phun file for you guys but apparently you can't upload a .phn extension. I would strongly suggest using one of these modeling program to save a lot of trial and error. Unfortunately there is no 'save as' so I can't show you what I've done in another format.
Looking forward to your update Larry!
Best,
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
If you zip the file, you will be able to attach. Excited to see!
Thanks,
Jason
Here's the zipped file. You will need to download Phun first and extract this file to the 'scenes' subdirectory. Open Phun and under the file pulldown menu select 'load scene' and click on the file 'wheel' to open it.
Click on the 'drag' tool in the tools menu...the one that looks like a hand...then click the green arrow to start the animation.
With the mouse pointer you can drag the weights to rotate the assembly.
Remember that this is not finished....see if you can figure out what I need add... ;D
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 13, 2008, 10:06:23 AM
Looking forward to your update Larry!
Running behind, didn't get to testing phase yet, so I just wanted to pass a pic of the build. I only have two bungee cords in the pic, they are at the midpoint to have tension at each end of the movement. I need to pick up some eyebolts for the bungee cords and I will add bungee cords on each side of the weight boxes. Then I will mount the whole unit on a outside piling and add the stops to release the latches and pull the levers.
Regards, Larry
Wow...nice job! Can't wait to see it in action.
Regards,
Charlie
@noonespecial
Thanks.. I'll take a look!
@LarryC
Wow.. looking good!
Jason
Hi Larry,
I think I'll whip up your design in Phun and see what happens. How much weight were you using again? And how are you activating the levers?
Thanks,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 15, 2008, 10:25:04 PM
I think I'll whip up your design in Phun and see what happens. How much weight were you using again? And how are you activating the levers?
Hi Charlie,
The weights are 7 lbs in each box, appreciate your proposed Phun efforts, but I don't think you can simulate without considering the stored centrifugal force in the bungee's. I don't know what this stored force will be until I can test and I'm sure it will vary with the rpm's.
The levers will be activated by a fixed stop at 4:00, which will hit the center pivot of the lever and the pivot will slide along the stop until the two weight boxes reach 1" pass the mid point and then drop off. The main timing problem will be releasing the stored centrifugal force at exactly the right time to support the starting movement of the levers.
Hopefully, this is close to what Bob was doing, but since he remains silent, who knows?
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
How is the testing coming? Just curious....
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 21, 2008, 07:32:54 PM
Hi Larry,
How is the testing coming? Just curious....
Charlie
Yea, me too, but ran into a problem with the previous setup. The lever although great at initial pull, caused the slides to jam with two much sideways force above 20 degrees. So had to set up a new lever system that pulls almost straight up, works well with a manual test of full weights. Had other minor changes, but now all I have to do is add the stops to the base again and tweaking will commence. I will be sending pictures this evening and be able to give you some better stats for Phun. Maybe you can help improve the design, but my main concern is what piece will break first ;D
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 22, 2008, 09:40:17 AM
Maybe you can help improve the design, but my main concern is what piece will break first ;D
Drum roll please! It was the 100 lb rated desk slide that broke first. See the warped slide pic. I really though the 6" lazy susan hardware which is the central rotation mechanism would go first.
All test were done with bungees latched using about 21 lbs of force and started by lightly pushing the rotor arm counterclockwise at 12.00. The machine has safety stops to stop the centrifugal forces from destroying itself.
First series of test with 5 lbs at each end. With tweaking one of the test finally made it around but did not re-latch as needed to continue.
Went to 8 lbs at each end and warped one of the desk slides. Apparently the Centripetal force was greater then 100 lbs. The stored centrifugal force and the centripetal force is required to push the weights to halfway + 1". So I will have to rethink this design as the desk slides cannot handle the centripetal force.
Another comment, this is a noisy machine.
Sorry about my junk storage behind the Machine pic but that was the only piling where I could safely hang this think on.
@Charlie,
The center levers are 35.5 " with 10.5 before the pivot and 25 after. The piece from the box to the center lever is 20". The total movement of the boxes are 23.5".
Regards, Larry
Hello Larry
Good Job
which you much to succseed
Hello Bob nice to have you here . This thread seems to be revitalised.
thanks for sharing.
helmut
Quote from: helmut on August 22, 2008, 07:40:38 PM
Hello Larry
Good Job
which you much to succseed
Hello Bob nice to have you here . This thread seems to be revitalised.
thanks for sharing.
helmut
Bob? I wish Bob were here.....:)
@Larry
I've started to draw up your design but will need to change the latch mechanism. Unfortunately there's no 'Z' dimension in these simulation programs so doing a right angle latch mechanism won't work. I'll attempt the original gate latch and see if I can make that work. Stay tuned.....
Charlie
If it's fixed could you please make a video if you can?
Quote from: broli on August 23, 2008, 12:32:37 PM
If it's fixed could you please make a video if you can?
Sorry, the machine is apart at this time I and could not fix the broken slide, lost some ball bearings. But, If Charlie gets his Phun version working you should be able to step it thru its action.
Did pick up some new parts, patio door rollers and 1/2" angle. The new version will look more like Bob Kostoff's (without the shocks) and will be much stronger than my previous version. Still believe something else will break, but will just keep modifying.
Regards, Larry
Before I work on the latch part of this I just want to make sure that this is what you had so far. I had to add a couple of stops for the lifting arms because they keep getting inverted for some reason. Anyway, take a look and let me know what you think.
Remember you need Phun loaded and extract this file to the 'scenes' subfolder. Once in Phun, under the file dropdown menu select load scene (Bob). Make sure that the 'hand' tool is selected and click on the green 'run' arrow. If something screws up, click on 'undo'. Grab anywhere and gently rotate. If you have a problem let me know.
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 23, 2008, 04:34:07 PM
Before I work on the latch part of this I just want to make sure that this is what you had so far. I had to add a couple of stops for the lifting arms because they keep getting inverted for some reason. Anyway, take a look and let me know what you think.
Remember you need Phun loaded and extract this file to the 'scenes' subfolder. Once in Phun, under the file dropdown menu select load scene (Bob). Make sure that the 'hand' tool is selected and click on the green 'run' arrow. If something screws up, click on 'undo'. Grab anywhere and gently rotate. If you have a problem let me know.
Charlie
Seems the light pink is short, didn't specify before, but should be 22.5 from pivot center to pivot center. With the weights at the bottom the right green lever should be at 30 degrees to the light pink, Phun has it over 45.
Regards, Larry
Help please, can any of you Spock geniuses explain this from reply #83:
QuoteThe way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
Don't worry about the 4:00 O'Clock position or the 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel or the first 2" is the heaviest or the spring mechanism. Can you please give your insight on the cam acting like a lever 2.5" to center and 10" past! Also, the stated Centricical force is centrifugal force.
Regards, Larry
And how does this play into it as well?
"The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8"). Remember the weights are joined so they have only 1/2 the distance of the total travel before there is no resistance. (12" on a 24" stroke)."
This statement sounds like there is a simple cam that lifts everything the initial 4"...the hardest part. Then there's 8" of lift from the actuator arm, done with the "It (cam or arm?) acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past." We just need to figure this part out.
Charlie
@LarryC
I looked at what you have done. The arm impact to make the shift will cause you a severe shake/jar and tear it apart even if you get it running, it won't run long. I have already played with this concept last year with counter weights and I understand the jarring that you are going to be effected with plus the CF problem. If you have any questions pleas ask in an email due to over exposure. ab.hammer@yahoo.com
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 24, 2008, 12:19:15 PM
@LarryC
I looked at what you have done. The arm impact to make the shift will cause you a severe shake/jar and tear it apart even if you get it running, it won't run long. I have already played with this concept last year with counter weights and I understand the jarring that you are going to be effected with plus the CF problem. If you have any questions pleas ask in an email due to over exposure. ab.hammer@yahoo.com
Thanks Ab, for the confirmation.
Did realize that after I digested the warping problem. Along with the heavier hardware, I have also designed a gradient cam guide that will start off gradually and increase the rise rate as it approaches midpoint + 1". Much more tweaking!
Regards,Larry
LarryC
You are going to need much better construction as well. Try screen door roller bearings and 1/4 inch round stock steel for your track, and stronger bolts like carage bolts ect.
Good luck, you are getting close. P.S. you do know what my statement means?
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 24, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
LarryC
You are going to need much better construction as well. Try screen door roller bearings and 1/4 inch round stock steel for your track, and stronger bolts like carage bolts ect.
Good luck, you are getting close. P.S. you do know what my statement means?
You must have missed my previous post, had picked up sliding glass door roller bearings and 1/2 " angle iron for track.
Regards, Larry
OOPs post #357 LOL
I prefer round bar stock the rollers with the 1/2 round track fit them perfectly. less friction.
I really want to help out with some wm2d sims but I don't understand the design. NS's drawings don't make much sense to me.
Quote from: broli on August 24, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
I really want to help out with some wm2d sims but I don't understand the design. NS's drawings don't make much sense to me.
Hi Broli,
First if you haven't look at the pic in reply #286, please check it out as we are trying to build a much lighter version of that unit.
The springs and belows are compressed when the two connected weights are brought to mid-point + 1" and then the spinning unit slams the weights into them and locked. The compressed centrifugal forces are used to help the movement from the bottom to mid-point + 1" in the next power cycle.
Since my unit is down, I did a Knex version to show you the mechanical movements. It does not have the bungee cords or actual locks as in the pics in reply #353. The black tape is the weights.
It is going counterclockwise so the first pic is at 8. The stop on the bottom left is to release the latch holding the compressed forces and the stop on the bottom right starts to pull the lever.
The pic at 6 shows the weights have moved past mid-point + 1" and starting to slide upwards. The lever has slid past the stop on the right.
The pic at 5 shows the weights have slammed to the top and should have locked down the compressed forces.
Now, my design is being changed because a more graduated approach is needed to lifting the weights. That is why the slide warped. So a slower lifting cam will be needed at the beginning and maybe the lever after or just all graduated cam.
So, you can wm2d using the length specs that I gave to Charlie, but the real unknown is how much compressed centrifugal force is needed to get the weights back to mid-point + 1". Can wm2d simulate the gravity, centripetal and centrifugal forces at work? If you can simulate that it would really help!
Regards, Larry
Quote from: broli on August 24, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
I really want to help out with some wm2d sims but I don't understand the design. NS's drawings don't make much sense to me.
I hope you aren't referring to some of my drawings in my older posts??? I think we have pretty much settled on trying to duplicate Bob Kostoff's design as close as we can with the limited info that we have. His is the only one that appears to work. WM2D would be great and is a much better program than Phun. I wish I had a copy.
Anyway, your help would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Charlie
I always have big difficulties understanding other people's ideas for some reason. I still don't fully get the idea behind this design.
Are you trying to compress the spring more by the centrifugal force? And using this extra energy to push the weight back past their locking mechanism?
@ Broli,
Are you trying to compress the spring more by the centrifugal force? Yes! you got it.
Just like if you could save the slinging energy here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet to help with the next throw.
And using this extra energy to push the weight back past their locking mechanism? Not exactly sure what you meant here, but the locking mechanism is released and the compressed forces help to push the weights back to mid-point + 1".
Regards, Larry
I'm glad to see this project continues! I haven't started with a build yet, but I like to see others progress.. when I start with mine I'll post my progress. I'll continue to watch this thread. Thanks for the updates and thank you Broli for any simulations you do.
Jason
Sounds simlar in thought to the egyptian fulcrum and what was trying to be accomplished with it by Archer Quinn one of the less favorite board members I know but he did sure put in a load of effort into that gizgantic thing anyhow neither here nor there just trying to point out the design may contain some obvious flaws pointed out by pure power or what have you I guess I dont see how this machine would work either not to discount its work as I've seen some interesting youtube video of this device a couple years ago I believe...
I am curious where the gimmick is that makes it all come together and work...
I'd love for gravity power to work but untill someone shares with us a working design I think I may piss into the wind and piss with it as well seems wind power may actually be worlds cheaper then other applications and we know it works but please dont give up on gravity some how some way there is a way to harness its power however for most time is of the essence we do not grow any younger.
These two post may help with the concept of this wheel:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2326.msg115091.html#msg115091
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2326.msg48480.html#msg48480
Jason
There's really only one thing that bothers me (well, other than the fact that Uncle Bob has disappeared ;))...and it just dawned on me this morning.
In order for this machine to work, something, somewhere has to be stationary. I just went back and reviewed the video for the umteenth time and can't seem to find it. For instance, take LarryC's Knex example. He has a stop to activate the release of the door knob latch mechanism and another stop to activate the lifting arm.
Bob mentions a cam lifting the weights initially. Now, I'm definitely not a Mechanical Engineer but I think there are only 2 ways that a cam would work in this situation (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). First, the cam itself would have to rotate faster than a cam follower fastened to the weights effecting the lift or second, the cam is stationary and the cam follower(s) rotate around the cam. In the video, and its certainly hard to see, it just appears that everthing is rotating. Unless there is something on the floor that is fixed and is hidden by the table in the foreground I'm missing the fixed parts of this machine.
Any help?
Thanks,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on August 25, 2008, 09:48:09 AM
There's really only one thing that bothers me (well, other than the fact that Uncle Bob has disappeared ;))...and it just dawned on me this morning.
In order for this machine to work, something, somewhere has to be stationary. I just went back and reviewed the video for the umteenth time and can't seem to find it. For instance, take LarryC's Knex example. He has a stop to activate the release of the door knob latch mechanism and another stop to activate the lifting arm.
Bob mentions a cam lifting the weights initially. Now, I'm definitely not a Mechanical Engineer but I think there are only 2 ways that a cam would work in this situation (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). First, the cam itself would have to rotate faster than a cam follower fastened to the weights effecting the lift or second, the cam is stationary and the cam follower(s) rotate around the cam. In the video, and its certainly hard to see, it just appears that everthing is rotating. Unless there is something on the floor that is fixed and is hidden by the table in the foreground I'm missing the fixed parts of this machine.
Any help?
Thanks,
Charlie
I'm guessing also, but thought it was fixed to the table ???
My new cam guide will be fixed in the latch release area and a roller bearing follower on the bottom weight box. Think of the cam guide as a partial ellipse (slow rise to high rise) that the weight box will follow up.
Did notice is his pic of the machine in #286 that the table is offset to the right of the arm. Probably to balance the forces create by the clockwise rotation. Lot of iron bar underneath(levers?) and what is that round object (part of cam?) to the right of the rotor on the table?
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 25, 2008, 10:29:55 AM
My new cam guide will be fixed in the latch release area and a roller bearing follower on the bottom weight box. Think of the cam guide as a partial ellipse (slow rise to high rise) that the weight box will follow up.
Interesting concept. Let us know how it works out. [edit] Do you think it might work better with a follower and cam guide on the upper weight box? It would seem that you would have more leverage....just a thought.
Quote
Did notice is his pic of the machine in #286 that the table is offset to the right of the arm. Probably to balance the forces create by the clockwise rotation. Lot of iron bar underneath(levers?) and what is that round object (part of cam?) to the right of the rotor on the table?
Regards, Larry
I could be wrong but the round object could be part of the drive gearing for his generator? Small gear on the shaft to a much larger one to ramp up the rpms?
Best,
Charlie
@Charlie,
Interesting concept. Let us know how it works out. [edit] Do you think it might work better with a follower and cam guide on the upper weight box? It would seem that you would have more leverage....just a thought.
Yes it is more leverage at center, but over a proportional shorter distance, should work out the same when weight rise, distance, and speed for the same time is considered. Also the rise at center would be many times greater and harder to tweak. With the bottom cam I should be able to have real accurate control over the rise. But let me know if you still can see a problem, since Bob K said his cam was around the center. Don't know if it was due to the actuator arm or not.
I could be wrong but the round object could be part of the drive gearing for his generator? Small gear on the shaft to a much larger one to ramp up the rpms?
Good point.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 25, 2008, 12:15:29 PM
Yes it is more leverage at center, but over a proportional shorter distance, should work out the same when weight rise, distance, and speed for the same time is considered. Also the rise at center would be many times greater and harder to tweak. With the bottom cam I should be able to have real accurate control over the rise. But let me know if you still can see a problem, since Bob K said his cam was around the center. Don't know if it was due to the actuator arm or not.
Regards, Larry
The only problem might be (and its a problem no matter how we attempt this) is that the weights need to be lifted rapidly to take advantage of as much centrifugal force as possible and maintain momentum. Bob mentions starting his lift at around 4:00 and completing it at 6:00. This is only 60 degrees to lift the weights at least 13" (his design). This is pretty aggressive but probably necessary to make this work. You are right that you will have a longer sweep at the bottom to make this happen. I just hope that it doesn't stall out on you.
This is where WM2D would come in real handy......(hint, hint) ;D
Charlie
I'm stock on understanding the locking? mechanism. Kind of don't get the purpose of the levers.
Broli
make some cardboard cut outs and just move it around and you will see what you need to do your simulations.
Quote from: broli on August 25, 2008, 07:06:56 PM
I'm stock on understanding the locking? mechanism. Kind of don't get the purpose of the levers.
When the weights are forced to the top during the rotation, the locking mechanism is used to hold the weights against the springs until about 4:00 (going clockwise) the locking mechanism is released which releases the potential energy of the compressed springs and aids in lifting the weights upward. The actual mechanism would be whatever would work. For instance, a pivoting catch and pin. However, it will need to be very strong as you'll see.
Regarding the levers, we are currently unsure of the exact geometry of lifting levers. Larry is currently working on an approach which may not require the levers. It would be helpful if you could complete as much as you can and present it and we can comment on how to proceed.
Thanks for your help!
Charlie
http://www.design-simulation.com/WM2D/demo.php
@Bessler007
The problem with most evaluation versions, including this one is that you can't save your work.
Charlie
Also suggesting a completely new program to someone who is already knee deep in a design and build is a bit nonchalant. You're asking the person to first try and build experience in wm2d (which believe me takes a big while with wm2d's quirks) and then finally simulate his design.
And I think I understand the design "completely" now. Going to try and build a locking mechanism in wm2d. You guys can help with ideas since building locks isn't my expertise :p.
Here's the base that has slidding weight and springs on both ends...
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/bobw1.PNG
You can suggest locking mechanisms by painting it over and I'll try and build it.
@Broli,
Sorry, I've been trying to reply to you off and on today, but evertime I would insert your post I would get error on page. Finally tried other post and they work fine ???
Well, anyway if you look at the Door latch stop pic, you will see a regular door knob with a lever attached to it hitting a stop to cause it to release. The catch is attached to the weight box rear on a piece of 2X4 almost even with the hole. The other piece of 2x4 below that is attached to the main board and forces the catch into alignment to latch properly.
The cam guide pic is a graph to represent the proposed slope to raise the weights. Each square is 1". The bottom length is 2"8", which is the length over two clock positions when the diameter is 5'. The side length is 13" which represents the height to raise. The top length is 2'1" which is the length over two clock positions when the diameter is reduces by the 13".
I have a dot at every 4" with a rise value before it. So the cam guide will follow the dotted path.
@All,
Had a new disturbing idea today, what if Bob K is using the spring force at first then after that loses force, he releases the stored shock pressure to further assist the rise. This would throw our simple design out.
Regards, Larry
I have searched everywhere for Bob Kostoff's patent.. doesn't exist! I think he got the idea from this website:
http://www.fuellesspower.com/6_Gravity2.htm
Maybe these photos can help:
http://www.fuellesspower.com/Fuelless%20Gravity%20photos.htm
Jason
Quote from: LarryC on August 26, 2008, 10:42:48 PM
@All,
Had a new disturbing idea today, what if Bob K is using the spring force at first then after that loses force, he releases the stored shock pressure to further assist the rise. This would throw our simple design out.
Regards, Larry
Brilliant observation! I was thinking that they just absorbed the shock of the shifting weight. Let's see what Uncle Bob had to say....
"The air cylinders I use as a shock absorber, similar to that in a car and it also stores a bit of energy that locks the 2 weights together almost at the bottom."
So it may very well be that he is using the air cyclinders
themselves to 'latch' the weights. He could have valving set up that transfers the pressure at the correct time to release (and possibly assist in lifting) the weights. OK....now what?
Charlie
What absorbed shock? Didn't we all plan on two springs on both side ;D. That would leave no shock into play and restore the force back in to a spring. But my initial tests (still not finished since I have to do certain stuff manually) shows that it barely reaches to lock itself. I was thinking...what if an electromagnet was used to give a small push at the middle of the way going back just to help it pass the lock mechanism and lock itself. I will soon post a video of the simulation if it's done.
Edit: I just had a flashback of thinking or posting that bob used pneumatic pumps to push it slightly to lock itself. Maybe I just misunderstood when he was talking about his shock absorbing thingie. On the other hand we would have never knew either since there was no sound of the machine. Btw simulation video will follow shortly. I'm starting to think more and more about this idea. In an ideal situation with the most ideal locks without any loses this system should self accelerate without any outside aid. The springs help bring the weights up and gravity does the rest....I think :p. But even a simulation can't be ideal in this case so hence the need for a small aid to make it go that extra cm or so.
Interesting thoughts guys!
I'll add a few.
Springs: Since Bob had springs on the ends and bellows in the middle. To simulate, I put bungee cords in the middle so with their length they would not apply tension until they got around 4" to the end/middle. You can see the green in reply 353 (Bob-Machine pic) on each side. It had the eye bolts to add bungees to the other side of the boxes, but wasn't needed yet.
Momentum: I normally try to keep any supporting structure mass on a gravity machine as low as possible, believing that mass should be focused as much as possible into the unbalanced weights to give gravity the advantage. But in this case with one rotor, additional structural mass may be required to pull the unit thru the lift phase. Does the end plates of the unit in Bob K's pic look like fixed weights?
Rpm: It seems a certain minimum rpm will be needed for the centrifugal sling effect to work.
Regards, Larry
Oke scrap that. The weights not going all the way back is not due to loses but due to gravity ;D. When it goes back up gravity pulls down on it constantly so it will just barely make it. The bad thing is that extra cm push I talked about is actually a lot of energy....
Btw here's the video...
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/bobW1.avi
As you can see it doesn't go beyond the lock.
OK Guys
Springs work both ways in energy transfer. They always want to go to neutral position. So for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. In this device it is obvious.
I think this might help.. I have attached two graphic to explain my idea of the springs.. not worried about the position of the wheel to explain.. not at 4, 6, and etc.
Jason
Edit: Centrifugal force should hold the weights in place until the next release.
That's the same thing really. The "pulling" you refer to will come back later as pushing so there are no loses in that. But as is I realized every turn gravity sucks energy out of the springs by pulling the weight down while it's going up when it's released.
What I am showing is that with the springs attached to the weights.. there isn't enough force to compress the springs.. not attached.. more force. It is not the same.
Jason
Edit: Also I'm talking about real springs.. not bungees. Bungees store energy when pulled.. springs store energy when pushed.
Quote from: broli on August 27, 2008, 09:57:55 AM
Oke scrap that. The weights not going all the way back is not due to loses but due to gravity ;D. When it goes back up gravity pulls down on it constantly so it will just barely make it. The bad thing is that extra cm push I talked about is actually a lot of energy....
Btw here's the video...
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/bobW1.avi
As you can see it doesn't go beyond the lock.
Great work and nice first shot. But it seems that the the RPM's is too slow to get the centrifugal sling that is required to bypass gravity and the springs seem to overwhelm the whole process. My unit did not bounce around like that. But please keep at it as it looks promising.
@Jason,
Springs are normally sold as compression, extension, or torsion. Bob K used compression springs on the ends and the shock type bellows in the middle (would consider as compression springs with more control).
Also, I don't think the centrifugal force will hold the required force in place, it requires the capture of the centrifugal
slam force to help in the next cycle.
@Charlie,
Very interesting that Bob stated the shock type bellows latched the weights. Tried to look for it in his pic, but having a hard time finding any clue. Any insight!
Regards, Larry
I think that the compression type is the key.. latch the panel to store the energy then release at 4, which would push the weights and then centrifugal force pulls them the rest of the way to the other end and the spring at that end gets compressed, and then the panel gets latched and stores the energy to be released at 4 and the cycle goes on.
Jason
I believe then mine and maybe even Larry's weight are going way to far. Maybe the offset shouldn't be that big...will experiment with this.
Quote from: LarryC on August 27, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
@Charlie,
Very interesting that Bob stated the shock type bellows latched the weights. Tried to look for it in his pic, but having a hard time finding any clue. Any insight!
Sorry, no. I went back and tried to step through the video again frame by frame but the frame rate is low that everything is just blurred as you know.
Short of having Bob come back and tell us how he's doing it, I'm afraid we are left to speculate and experiment until we discover something......
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: LarryC on August 27, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
@Charlie,
Very interesting that Bob stated the shock type bellows latched the weights. Tried to look for it in his pic, but having a hard time finding any clue. Any insight!
Sorry, no. I went back and tried to step through the video again frame by frame but the frame rate is low that everything is just blurred as you know.
Short of having Bob come back and tell us how he's doing it, I'm afraid we are left to speculate and experiment until we discover something......
Regards,
Charlie
[Edit] Sorry for the double post...having a hard time lately accessing the forum again..... ???
Quote from: broli on August 28, 2008, 05:59:40 AM
I believe then mine and maybe even Larry's weight are going way to far. Maybe the offset shouldn't be that big...will experiment with this.
Hi Broli,
I tried to check out your statement by analyzing the Bob machine pic in reply #286.
Bob's shoe size seems to be around a 9, really sorry Bob to get personnel but your disappearance leaves us no choice.
Considering that shoe size, then the plate weights seem to be a 10" x 14" rectangle. In the pic a semi V support structure seems to be holding the center of the unit. The upper weight plate held by the bellow shock seems to be 5 to 6" from the center of the unit. If the plates are moving 24" then you should be able to use this info for the offset. My original version seems to be close.
Regards, Larry
@All
OK...here's my take on the air cylinder(s). I tried to catch a screen shot of what I believe is the air cylinder that he is using. There are other objects to the immediate right that look similar but I don't know what they are. Bob does mention that he uses 3 techniques to raise the weights..air cylinder, cam and actuator arm. I don't think this will work without all 3. Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Charlie
Hmmm. I just noticed what looks like the bottom air cylinder just below the top of the table in the foreground. So perhaps my drawing is pretty close to what he is doing.......
Charlie
Greetings Charlie and Larry C
Send me an email to ab.hammer@yahoo.com, and I will send you a confidential video. I don't want this video to be published, but it might give you some help on your project. It is one of my almost runners and it has a similar problem of what you have been facing. Then we can talk on the forum, I just don't want to show the video or any drawing of it.
Quote from: noonespecial on August 29, 2008, 09:52:32 AM
OK...here's my take on the air cylinder(s). I tried to catch a screen shot of what I believe is the air cylinder that he is using. There are other objects to the immediate right that look similar but I don't know what they are. Bob does mention that he uses 3 techniques to raise the weights..air cylinder, cam and actuator arm. I don't think this will work without all 3. Let me know what you think.
Yes, Charlie your air cylinder accumulator theory does sound very feasible. Still it dishearthen me a little as I find it would be expensive to duplicate.
But, my guess in your 3 ? in the vid pic seems to be the springs uncompressed in the top line off the 3 ?, and the top end of the weights in the bottom line off the 3 ?.
BTW, I have new slender weights boxes built which weight 2.5 lbs with the patio door rollers installed. But weights can be added to it from 1 to 12 lbs in each box. Picture it more like a double axe blade without the flair. I have the 24" roller guides cut and pre-drilled to be attached to the supporting arm.
I spent my spare time today putting up hurricane shutters as I am in SE La. and waiting for Gus.
Hopefully it turns away and I can get out tommorrow to pick up the parts for the main arm.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on August 29, 2008, 06:47:19 PM
Yes, Charlie your air cylinder accumulator theory does sound very feasible. Still it dishearthen me a little as I find it would be expensive to duplicate.
But, my guess in your 3 ? in the vid pic seems to be the springs uncompressed in the top line off the 3 ?, and the top end of the weights in the bottom line off the 3 ?.
Yes....makes perfect sense.
QuoteBTW, I have new slender weights boxes built which weight 2.5 lbs with the patio door rollers installed. But weights can be added to it from 1 to 12 lbs in each box. Picture it more like a double axe blade without the flair. I have the 24" roller guides cut and pre-drilled to be attached to the supporting arm.
Are going to be using your new design with gradual return curve?
QuoteI spent my spare time today putting up hurricane shutters as I am in SE La. and waiting for Gus.
Hopefully it turns away and I can get out tommorrow to pick up the parts for the main arm.
Stay safe my friend. I hope it changes direction for your sake as well. Talk to you soon....
Charlie
Hi Larry,
Yes, be safe with the hurricane.. hope it misses your place!
Jason
OK guys Videos sent.
Quote from: noonespecial on August 29, 2008, 10:08:10 AM
Hmmm. I just noticed what looks like the bottom air cylinder just below the top of the table in the foreground. So perhaps my drawing is pretty close to what he is doing.......
Charlie
You guys are probably on the right track. Looks like a lot of pneumatic equipment laying around Bob's workshop. Also could be an air shock modified to act like a piston.
Peace all.
Thanks,
Charlie and Jason for the well wishes, but I just hope these storms would just go back to normal size before global warming occurred. After getting wacked badly and surviving Katrina, that is my main reason for being here.
@Charlie,
Are going to be using your new design with gradual return curve?
Yes, that will be my first shot, but with the new weight box/patio roller slide design I'll be able to have the cam at the outside or the center, or any combination of cam/inside/outside plus lever.
Still hoping Broli can reduce the tweaking time!
Regards,
Larry
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 29, 2008, 10:01:29 PM
OK guys Videos sent.
Thanks AB. However, it would have been more helpful if you showed it stopped and then starting.
I'm also a little confused about how you want to proceed. If you want your design to remain proprietary, how do we discuss it here in an open forum?
Regards,
Charlie
Greetings Charlie
I just got off the phone with Larry C. It is looking like he may have to go to higher ground.
In the video I sent you, I am wanting you to look at the springs. They tended to make the wheel flywheel neutralizing the slide. They will work against what you are trying to do, but lighter springs will help smooth off the vibration and jarring you are going to have. I will be finishing a newer version of that wheel with a new arrangement, That is the reason I didn't want it shown. I have 2 others to finish first.
Hi AB,
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 30, 2008, 03:23:17 PM
I just got off the phone with Larry C. It is looking like he may have to go to higher ground.
Maybe this stupid hurricane will head more toward Mexico eventually. Let's keep our fingers crossed....:)
Quote
In the video I sent you, I am wanting you to look at the springs. They tended to make the wheel flywheel neutralizing the slide. They will work against what you are trying to do, but lighter springs will help smooth off the vibration and jarring you are going to have. I will be finishing a newer version of that wheel with a new arrangement, That is the reason I didn't want it shown. I have 2 others to finish first.
I've looked at your video several times and paused it throughout but I'm still unsure. Are the springs coming from the center and connect to the other pieces that form the top part of the 'Y'?
Thanks,
Charlie
@ Charlie
The springs are attached around the axle and to each end of the sliding weight.
Hi AB,
OK, I understand now what you are getting at.
In Bob Kostoff's design, the springs aren't attached to the weights at all but only act as a cushion to 'catch' the slung weight. If you can find the photo that Larry posted of one of Bob's early designs, you can see it plainly.
Larry showed attachment points for his bungy cords and my Phun simulation showed springs attached similar to yours but in reality, the weight are free to travel back and forth on their own.
My current belief is that the 'prime mover' for the weights is a double ended pneumatic cylinder that stores energy when the weights are forced upward and reuses that energy during the next half cycle.
Regards,
Charlie
Greetings Charlie
You are correct, Bob used springs as shock and a compressor to shift. In his video you will see the air system jerking around from the air pressure as well as other things shaking.
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 31, 2008, 04:22:06 PM
Greetings Charlie
You are correct, Bob used springs as shock and a compressor to shift. In his video you will see the air system jerking around from the air pressure as well as other things shaking.
Hi AB,
I know that one version of the Creative Science machine uses a compressor to drive it but Bob claims that there are no air lines or hoses connected to his machine. In response to a comment that he was using his compressor to drive the machine he writes,"Hi Stephan. Just thought I would give you a little message and let you know I am back home again. I still go to therapy but things are comming along.
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table. There are no hoses or airlines conected to it."
It remains to be proven out and unless he is simply putting one over on us, it would appear that he is shuttling air pressure from one cylinder to the other and accomplishing the lift. Theoretically, this is possible but will need to proven.
BTW, LarryC hasn't chimed in lately which is a good sign that hopefully he is high and dry and safely out of harm's way.
Regards,
Charlie
greetings Charlie
Here is an experiment to do for that question. Take two large shot needles and put them together end to end. You push one plunger in and the other goes out. You can do this on and on but think how much pressure do you think it will take to push up a weight and then you turn it over and push. Now think how can that weight you are pushing up push itself up. This is what is sound to me is being said. I have looked at Bobs machine over and over and there are allot of air lines on it. The worst thing about his video is that there is no sound which IMO would have allot of air sound in it. This still doesn't mean any less important, for there can still be OU if it is making enough electric to run the compressor to run itself.
Good morning AB,
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 31, 2008, 08:35:27 PM
[snip]You can do this on and on but think how much pressure do you think it will take to push up a weight and then you turn it over and push. Now think how can that weight you are pushing up push itself up. [snip]
I agree. However, herein lies the supposed genius of Bob's machine. We aren't only dealing with static weight like on an overbalance wheel. We have the added phenomenon of centripetal force....like on a trebuchet. It allegedly goes that when the weight passes the center point during the lifting stage, it is accelerated to the end and creates many times the normal force (f=ma). This 'additional' force is then captured in a combination of compressed springs and compressed air pressure to be reused to easily lift the non-accelerating weight only half way during the next half-cycle. Again, theoretically this makes sense and is what we are hoping to prove.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 31, 2008, 08:35:27 PM
greetings Charlie
Here is an experiment to do for that question. Take two large shot needles and put them together end to end. You push one plunger in and the other goes out. You can do this on and on but think how much pressure do you think it will take to push up a weight and then you turn it over and push. Now think how can that weight you are pushing up push itself up. This is what is sound to me is being said. I have looked at Bobs machine over and over and there are allot of air lines on it. The worst thing about his video is that there is no sound which IMO would have allot of air sound in it. This still doesn't mean any less important, for there can still be OU if it is making enough electric to run the compressor to run itself.
Hi Ab Hammer
I had emali contact with Bob Kosthoff and asked wim about the need of compressed air.
He told me, that there is no need of extern supply with compressed air.
It might be of use to contact him directly via email and ask for details.
So please lets chose one to contact him.
We might ge an answer
helmut
Hi Helmut,
I wrote to Mr. Kostoff a couple of weeks ago but got no response. He is either ill again or is ignoring the energy forum paparazzi :).
Charlie
Quote from: helmut on September 01, 2008, 10:13:45 AM
Hi Ab Hammer
I had emali contact with Bob Kosthoff and asked wim about the need of compressed air.
He told me, that there is no need of extern supply with compressed air.
It might be of use to contact him directly via email and ask for details.
So please lets chose one to contact him.
We might ge an answer
helmut
@ helmut
In Bob's video it was obvious of an outside air source, the connections under the table that kept jumping with the device. That doesn't mean that he didn't have a newer way afterwords. But I don't think anybody has seen it.
@ Charlie
CF is its strongest between 8:30 and 3:30 on any thing that goes around due to gravity (think pendulum). And the only way it can work on it's own, is if it is it's own air compressor. That is the reason I gave you that simple test. But I will look into the possibility and see what can possibly be done. I love solving problems.
Quote from: AB Hammer on September 01, 2008, 03:30:09 PM
@ Charlie
CF is its strongest between 8:30 and 3:30 on any thing that goes around due to gravity (think pendulum). And the only way it can work on it's own, is if it is it's own air compressor. That is the reason I gave you that simple test. But I will look into the possibility and see what can possibly be done. I love solving problems.
Yes, you are correct when dealing with a weight at the end of an arm. But the rules change when the weight can slide back and forth. For instance, if we move Bob's sliding weights up so both weights are equidistant from the center the outward force goes to 0 because they are equally opposing each other. If we fixed the weights in this position, it would continuously rotate until slowed by internal friction. But if we pass the central point, assuming a fairly good rotation, the weights not only lift themselves against gravity but accelerate. The challenge is to get it to just past the central point.
BTW, it looks like the worst is over for Gustav so hopefully we'll be hearing from LarryC again soon.
Regards,
Charlie
@All,
Just got electricity and internet back ;D Decided to stay after the forecast of only TS winds and a 5-7 storm surge in out area. Only had some minor damage. So after a lite clean up and a little repair, I'll be back at the motor.
@AB,
Enjoyed our talk, sorry I had to cut out early for one of my Morgan City, La. relatives, but they were in the bullseyes and I wanted to talk them out of there. I think you have a lot to offer in getting Bob's machine replicated.
@Charlie,
Thanks for keeping the focus on Bob's centrifugal sling principal.
Regards, Larry
I'm glad you made it with little damage to your place. Welcome back!
Jason
Hi Larry,
Welcome back!
Glad to hear that you made it through safely and looking forward to your next update!
Best regards,
Charlie
Welcome back Larry
We are all thankful, for it could have been worst.
Quote from: LarryC on September 02, 2008, 06:00:24 PM
Just got electricity and internet back ;D Decided to stay after the forecast of only TS winds and a 5-7 storm surge in out area. Only had some minor damage. So after a lite clean up and a little repair, I'll be back at the motor.
Glad to hear you made it Larry. Had to relocate some relatives from Alexandria to Dallas over the long weekend and now I'm glad I did. Those that stuck behind had tornadoes and lots of rain yesterday, so better to sit it out in the dry for a while this time. Hoping you did not end up with any homestead damage.
Peace
Harti, My Friend with nick name Teslov was send me this is it interesting and how it works?
see here.knows someone something about this ? I would be lika to ake some as this if inventor or other help me
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1527526922275986120&ei=K46cSNSwMYSm2AL9\
and this here:
http://biogenesislab.blogspot.com/2008/06/peter-davey-sonic-resonance-boiler.html
Quote from: hartiberlin on May 11, 2007, 12:49:03 AM
Hi All,
I just went to:
www.newsourceofenergy.com
(old website:
www.newenergymachine.com )
and saw there their new video.
As it was a bit dark and also 54 MB to download,
I just put it through Virtualdub editor and converted it to
a Gamma level enhanced and sharpened DIVX AVI movie.
Here is the result in 4 Mbytes size enclosed.
You need the newer free www.divx.com
codec to watch it.
Looks amazing.
The first wheel , which seems really to accelerate.
Seems it really generates a lot of torque !
The guy is loosening the brake on the machine, gives it a little
push and the rotor accelerates !
I hope we can invite the inventor to come over here and
tell us about his design.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: tzaelinsfriendRacho on September 03, 2008, 01:10:06 AM
Harti, My Friend with nick name Teslov was send me this is it interesting and how it works?
see here.knows someone something about this ? I would be lika to ake some as this if inventor or other help me
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1527526922275986120&ei=K46cSNSwMYSm2AL9\
and this here:
http://biogenesislab.blogspot.com/2008/06/peter-davey-sonic-resonance-boiler.html
Welcome to the forum! While this is really interesting, you should start a new thread for this topic.
Jason
Quote from: 4Tesla on September 03, 2008, 01:39:40 AM
Welcome to the forum! While this is really interesting, you should start a new thread for this topic.
Jason
yeah yet another non open source technology! >:(
moving on but not completely disregarding!
have fun.
@all
I'm in the process of drawing up what I believe could be the air cylinder connection and actuator arm. Being a visual kind of guy I like to get my ideas down on paper. Also it should help to brainstorm alternative scenerios. Be back later.
Regards,
Charlie
@tzaelinsfriendRacho :
Can you be any more off topic dude. Make a new thread and don't pollute others.
@broli
Somehow the strings got mixed up. Look at the topic name. ( offtopic some about accoustiq enginesquestion )
I don't know how this happened.
;)
Best Regards to Omnibus From R.Kowacha, I am a bulgarian too I and my friend Teslov wery hard saw Your works about OC MPMM and replication of german magnet mashine. mashine these links:
1 http://biogenesislab.blogspot.com/2008/06/peter-davey-sonic-resonance-boiler.html
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5ahV_SN-M
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PXCWIRKJTk&NR=1
I thik all these are some resonants devises
Quote from: CLaNZeR on May 11, 2007, 10:42:21 AM
Hi Bob
Excellent work, is there any other videos showing it close up, do you plan to release build details?
Would not like to get smacked over the head with that thing LOL!
Just went to the site but it seems closed at the moment :(
Regards
Sean.
?
Quote from: tzaelinsfriendRacho on September 03, 2008, 02:30:05 PM
Best Regards to Omnibus From R.Kowacha, I am a bulgarian too I and my friend Teslov wery hard saw Your works about OC MPMM and replication of german magnet mashine. mashine these links:
1 http://biogenesislab.blogspot.com/2008/06/peter-davey-sonic-resonance-boiler.html
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5ahV_SN-M
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PXCWIRKJTk&NR=1
I thik all these are some resonants devises
Again.. please start a new thread on this sonic/resonance boiler. This thread is for discussion of Bob's gravity wheel.
Can you read this (English)? That might be part of the problem.
Thanks,
Jason
@ tzaelinsfriendRacho:
ИмаÑ,е публикува Ñ,ази инÑ,,Ð¾Ñ€Ð¼Ð°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ð² грешна Ñ,ема. Ð'ие Ñ,Ñ€Ñбва да направиÑ,е Ñвои ÑобÑÑ,вени Ðова Ñ,ема и не Ñе използва друг да показваÑ, разкриÑ,иÑÑ,а Ñи. Тази Ñ,ема е около Ñ,ежеÑÑ,Ñ,а колело изобреÑ,ение на Ð'об. ÐœÐ¾Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð¿Ñ€Ð°Ð²ÐµÑ,е нова Ñ,ема за звукови резонанÑ.
Lets hope google translate gets through him :p.
Sometimes you just miss something simple ::), and that may be the same with the solution to the gravity wheel and Bobs device as well.
Quote from: AB Hammer on September 03, 2008, 05:11:58 PM
Sometimes you just miss something simple ::), and that may be the same with the solution to the gravity wheel and Bobs device as well.
Okay, AB, please let us know the secret as times for games are over. I have put up with hurricanes my entire life. I have never seen them last so long after they get on shore. When I was younger, if a hurricane was coming, we would travel to our relatives in another part of the state, stay a day while the hurricane passes, then the next day we would head back to home with no weather problems. Now, it takes at least several days for the system to stop its relentless beating on the entire area. I'm sure even in northern La. you felt the effects of Gustav.
Regards, Larry
Greetings Larry
Bobs secret is simple but it is complicated for a single slide. You are going to have to have cross slides similar to the video of the wheel I sent you (one on each side). One will have to work off the other for an air unit. With a single slide it has to use a stepping system (to build up to give a central lift). As the weight pushes out and the mass of the weight becomes the factor. The pressure of the one pushes the other one to the up and hopefully just past the center in a cross form and stored for the single slide to released at the best moment. Bessler said along time ago, that the weights work in pairs. Another way to say one has to work off the other. Hopefully I can get some clear time shortly and we can get together and get this thing built (if you want the help). I will start on the air transfer system to develop the best use of what we can get out of each movement. A simple straight push pull will not be enough or they will still cancel each other out.
I'll give you a call later this week.
Quote from: AB Hammer on September 04, 2008, 06:40:06 AM
Greetings Larry
Bobs secret is simple but it is complicated for a single slide. You are going to have to have cross slides similar to the video of the wheel I sent you (one on each side). One will have to work off the other for an air unit. With a single slide it has to use a stepping system (to build up to give a central lift). As the weight pushes out and the mass of the weight becomes the factor. The pressure of the one pushes the other one to the up and hopefully just past the center in a cross form and stored for the single slide to released at the best moment. Bessler said along time ago, that the weights work in pairs. Another way to say one has to work off the other. Hopefully I can get some clear time shortly and we can get together and get this thing built (if you want the help). I will start on the air transfer system to develop the best use of what we can get out of each movement. A simple straight push pull will not be enough or they will still cancel each other out.
I'll give you a call later this week.
Thanks, AB
Got it. Your machine would be much easier to modify for air than mind, so I'll continue with my current design and modify as required. Hopefully someone will make a breakthru.
Regards, Larry
@all
Here's my latest thinking on Bob's machine including how I believe the air cylinder might be configured. I'm throwing this out here so we can brainstorm any possible changes or obvious things I might have missed or possibly a better way to do it.
Regards,
Charlie
[edit] The center text is poorly worded. It should read "...lift it 8"-9" just past the center point".
Quote from: noonespecial on September 04, 2008, 12:18:38 PM
@all
Here's my latest thinking on Bob's machine including how I believe the air cylinder might be configured. I'm throwing this out here so we can brainstorm any possible changes or obvious things I might have missed or possibly a better way to do it.
Hi Charlie,
Sorry about taking so long to respond, but been having problems with site everytime I get on.
Anyway, very interesting design! You are certainly creative.
Confused about the 'pressure is captured and release to the bottom air cylinder' statement. Wouldn't the top air cylinder be at the bottom at the next half-cycle?
Also, I think there would be an issue with the 2.5" part of the lever, having to much force pulling to the side toward full capture. Had a similar problem with my first design.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on September 06, 2008, 09:25:12 AM
Hi Charlie,
Sorry about taking so long to respond, but been having problems with site everytime I get on.
Anyway, very interesting design! You are certainly creative.
Confused about the 'pressure is captured and release to the bottom air cylinder' statement. Wouldn't the top air cylinder be at the bottom at the next half-cycle?
Also, I think there would be an issue with the 2.5" part of the lever, having to much force pulling to the side toward full capture. Had a similar problem with my first design.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
OK...now that the site is back up.....:)
Sorry for the confusion. My drawing only shows a partial rotation from 5:00 to 6:00 to show the effect of the air cylinder. You are correct that the top cylinder in my drawing would then become the bottom cylinder to receive the pressure during the next half cycle. But then, the other cylinder would be at the top and become compressed when the weights are flung upward...etc. BTW, when I was researching pneumatic stuff on the net I came across a device called a pressure booster. Apparently it is able to apply 2 pounds of output force for every pound of input. Just thought that was interesting.
Regarding the side pressure on the lever, as usual :) you are correct here also! I wanted to try and draw the 10" portion of the lever as an arc that would always be at 90 degrees to the roller bearing but MS Word is limited in its drawing tools. I really got to break down and get me some new programs.....:)
Still looking forward to seeing your design!
Best regards,
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Your design looks promising! I can't remember if I asked this or not.. What are you using for your drawings?
Thanks,
Jason
Hi Jason,
Thanks! This is just 'thinking out loud' about Bob's design. I could be way off but until we are able to engage Mr. Kostoff in more conversation, we can only guess at how he is doing it. This is just my 'best guess'.
Regarding the drawing, as I mentioned in my last response, I'm actually using MS Word. Not really the program of choice for drawing pictures but its not bad. It does have its limitations though. Then I convert it to a jpg and post. If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Best regards,
Charlie
@all
I finally received a response from Bob. Sounds like he is moving forward so that's great news.......
> Hi,
> Your website says that your new machine will be completed in early September. I was wondering when you will be adding the update?
> Thanks so much,
> Charlie
>
I'm am presently having one built in Canada and I am traveling to the US to maybe make a deal as well for construction there at
a plant that is geared for what I need. The new unit will be upgradeable from 1000 to 3000 lb. of torque. Like the Windmill, it has
a slow rpm. The only real drawback is the more energy it can put out, the heavier the machine has to be to support the weight.
Thanks for your interest.......Bob
Quote from: noonespecial on September 06, 2008, 07:06:24 PM
Hi Jason,
Thanks! This is just 'thinking out loud' about Bob's design. I could be way off but until we are able to engage Mr. Kostoff in more conversation, we can only guess at how he is doing it. This is just my 'best guess'.
Regarding the drawing, as I mentioned in my last response, I'm actually using MS Word. Not really the program of choice for drawing pictures but its not bad. It does have its limitations though. Then I convert it to a jpg and post. If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Best regards,
Charlie
I can't believe I missed that.. thanks!
Quote from: noonespecial on September 06, 2008, 10:15:25 PM
@all
I finally received a response from Bob. Sounds like he is moving forward so that's great news.......
> Hi,
> Your website says that your new machine will be completed in early September. I was wondering when you will be adding the update?
> Thanks so much,
> Charlie
>
I'm am presently having one built in Canada and I am traveling to the US to maybe make a deal as well for construction there at
a plant that is geared for what I need. The new unit will be upgradeable from 1000 to 3000 lb. of torque. Like the Windmill, it has
a slow rpm. The only real drawback is the more energy it can put out, the heavier the machine has to be to support the weight.
Thanks for your interest.......Bob
Would he be willing to share detailed drawings of his wheels or give a patent number?
Jason
It is good to here that Bob is still with it. :)
Quote from: noonespecial on September 06, 2008, 10:15:25 PM
@all
I finally received a response from Bob. Sounds like he is moving forward so that's great news.......
> Hi,
> Your website says that your new machine will be completed in early September. I was wondering when you will be adding the update?
> Thanks so much,
> Charlie
>
I'm am presently having one built in Canada and I am traveling to the US to maybe make a deal as well for construction there at
a plant that is geared for what I need. The new unit will be upgradeable from 1000 to 3000 lb. of torque. Like the Windmill, it has
a slow rpm. The only real drawback is the more energy it can put out, the heavier the machine has to be to support the weight.
Thanks for your interest.......Bob
Outstanding, thanks for the info Charlie,
I just hope his machine info is released in time, to reduce the climate change, that is destroying so many lives. Trust me, I know from Katrina, it is a great physical and mental burden when your house and neighborhood is taken apart. Now Gustav has inflicted suffering upon many thousand more.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: 4Tesla on September 06, 2008, 10:43:28 PM
Would he be willing to share detailed drawings of his wheels or give a patent number?
Jason
Hi Jason,
I can ask. The only disappointment in all of this is that he claims to have applied for a patent but a search of both Canadian and US patents doesn't show anything. So I don't know what's up with that......
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 07, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
Hi Jason,
I can ask. The only disappointment in all of this is that he claims to have applied for a patent but a search of both Canadian and US patents doesn't show anything. So I don't know what's up with that......
Regards,
Charlie
I have applied for a patent in Canada and US and since found out that the US shelve the application for 18 months then process it.
I have to wait about 12 more months for it to be processed.
.
Hello to all. Just like to say how glad I am to see the interest everyone has in my machine.
The machine I am referring to is the one at www.newsourceofenergy.com . Lots of you say
it can't be done and others say how did you do it. As a matter of fact it was very simple and
I had help. George, a good friend of mine, who was an engineer since 1945 was very interested
in what I had done so far and suggested to try the cam and leaver mechanism that I used in
the unit in the short clip.
Now picture this in your mind. Get 2 weights that weigh 10 lb each and weld a strong rod
between them at about 25 inches. These weight are placed vertically on a track. One at center
and the other at the bottom The 2 weight joined together take less energy to move toward the closer
to the center you get. If you are moving the weights 25 inches you only have to move them 12 inches
to get to the 0 weight factor as centrifugal force does the rest. The first 2 or 3 inches are the hardest to
move. To do this, a strong rod 3 feet out from the center to the end of the circumference of the rotating
unit. This is were the pivot point is for the leaver to lift the weights. The actual length of the rod is 42
inches. A 42 inch rod acts like a pry bar36 inches to develop the force and 6 inches to do the work.
---------------------o---
36 inches cl 6 inches
The 10 lb weight at the end of the 36 inch rod generates 30 lb plus 400 lb of weight from the wheel
rotating (flywheel affect) and with the pivot point 6 inches from the end , it can move a lot of weight.
The cam first moves the weights about 4 inches and then the leaver takes over and moves the weight just passed the center position. ( weights are equally divided in the center of the machine) Then
the centrifugal force takes over and moves the weights the other half of the way.
After this month I should have two companies, one in Canada and one in the US manufacturing them.
You can do a lot with a set of leavers.
Regards........Bob
Quote from: bobmary on September 07, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
I have applied for a patent in Canada and US and since found out that the US shelve the application for 18 months then process it.
I have to wait about 12 more months for it to be processed.
.
Hello to all. Just like to say how glad I am to see the interest everyone has in my machine.
The machine I am referring to is the one at www.newsourceofenergy.com . Lots of you say
it can't be done and others say how did you do it. As a matter of fact it was very simple and
I had help. George, a good friend of mine, who was an engineer since 1945 was very interested
in what I had done so far and suggested to try the cam and leaver mechanism that I used in
the unit in the short clip.
Now picture this in your mind. Get 2 weights that weigh 10 lb each and weld a strong rod
between them at about 25 inches. These weight are placed vertically on a track. One at center
and the other at the bottom The 2 weight joined together take less energy to move toward the closer
to the center you get. If you are moving the weights 25 inches you only have to move them 12 inches
to get to the 0 weight factor as centrifugal force does the rest. The first 2 or 3 inches are the hardest to
move. To do this, a strong rod 3 feet out from the center to the end of the circumference of the rotating
unit. This is were the pivot point is for the leaver to lift the weights. The actual length of the rod is 42
inches. A 42 inch rod acts like a pry bar36 inches to develop the force and 6 inches to do the work.
---------------------o---
36 inches cl 6 inches
The 10 lb weight at the end of the 36 inch rod generates 30 lb plus 400 lb of weight from the wheel
rotating (flywheel affect) and with the pivot point 6 inches from the end , it can move a lot of weight.
The cam first moves the weights about 4 inches and then the leaver takes over and moves the weight just passed the center position. ( weights are equally divided in the center of the machine) Then
the centrifugal force takes over and moves the weights the other half of the way.
After this month I should have two companies, one in Canada and one in the US manufacturing them.
You can do a lot with a set of leavers.
Regards........Bob
Hi Bob
Nice to see you again and thanks for sharing.
helmut
Quote from: bobmary on September 07, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
I have applied for a patent in Canada and US and since found out that the US shelve the application for 18 months then process it.
I have to wait about 12 more months for it to be processed.
.
Hello to all. Just like to say how glad I am to see the interest everyone has in my machine.
The machine I am referring to is the one at www.newsourceofenergy.com . Lots of you say
it can't be done and others say how did you do it. As a matter of fact it was very simple and
I had help. George, a good friend of mine, who was an engineer since 1945 was very interested
in what I had done so far and suggested to try the cam and leaver mechanism that I used in
the unit in the short clip.
Now picture this in your mind. Get 2 weights that weigh 10 lb each and weld a strong rod
between them at about 25 inches. These weight are placed vertically on a track. One at center
and the other at the bottom The 2 weight joined together take less energy to move toward the closer
to the center you get. If you are moving the weights 25 inches you only have to move them 12 inches
to get to the 0 weight factor as centrifugal force does the rest. The first 2 or 3 inches are the hardest to
move. To do this, a strong rod 3 feet out from the center to the end of the circumference of the rotating
unit. This is were the pivot point is for the leaver to lift the weights. The actual length of the rod is 42
inches. A 42 inch rod acts like a pry bar36 inches to develop the force and 6 inches to do the work.
---------------------o---
36 inches cl 6 inches
The 10 lb weight at the end of the 36 inch rod generates 30 lb plus 400 lb of weight from the wheel
rotating (flywheel affect) and with the pivot point 6 inches from the end , it can move a lot of weight.
The cam first moves the weights about 4 inches and then the leaver takes over and moves the weight just passed the center position. ( weights are equally divided in the center of the machine) Then
the centrifugal force takes over and moves the weights the other half of the way.
After this month I should have two companies, one in Canada and one in the US manufacturing them.
You can do a lot with a set of leavers.
Regards........Bob
Bob - is the goal to create a machine that will run a generator to power a single family home thus eliminating the need for outside power supply?
Thanks
Hi Bob,
First, I want to thank you for answering my emails and I certainly join everyone else in welcoming you back!
I'm still a little fuzzy on how the actual lever is activated. Is it at 90 degrees to the weights themselves? I can certainly see how the 36" lever can lift the weights. You mention the 10 pound weight at the end of the 36" but that sounds like the lever is in-line with the weights? Can you explain this a little more?
Thanks so much,
Charlie
Quote from: spider4re on September 07, 2008, 03:40:35 PM
Bob - is the goal to create a machine that will run a generator to power a single family home thus eliminating the need for outside power supply?
Thanks
You should check out Bob's video on his website www.newsourceofenergy.com and you can see the incredible potential of his machine. This can easily run any generator and definitely eliminate the need for any outside power. The beauty is that you could even backfeed the grid (if allowable in your state) and end up getting a check each month from the power company!
Best regards,
Charlie
Welcome Back Bob
I have only recently got involved and have been talking with Larry C for he lives in Louisiana as I do. I am a blacksmith/armourer Here are some of my past projects http://www.creationtime.com/hisbsaw.htm and on youtube I am ABthehammer where I have posted some of my past non working wheels to help people.
MY question is. Are you fully done with the design or are you still looking for better ways?
Here's my latest concept drawing based on what we know so far. Bob has confirmed that the cam is fixed and works as I thought from 3:30 to around 5:00 then the lever takes over. Larry, you might be able to modify your design in this way.
Best regards,
Charlie
Quote from: AB Hammer on September 07, 2008, 06:12:27 PM
MY question is. Are you fully done with the design or are you still looking for better ways?
Hi AB,
I think Bob may be having problems accessing this site. He sent me an email yesterday to say that he is working on a new way to be able to lift more weight. He didn't go into detail in the email but maybe once its complete he will let us know.
Best regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 07, 2008, 11:30:35 PM
Here's my latest concept drawing based on what we know so far. Bob has confirmed that the cam is fixed and works as I thought from 3:30 to around 5:00 then the lever takes over. Larry, you might be able to modify your design in this way.
May be able to modify. But, where did the arm with the round weights come from, it would have stuck out in the Bob K. pic. I can see how the lever could be hidden in the base.
@Bob, thanks for sharing. We really needed your help with the design. Looking forward to learning when we can order and how much.
Regards, Larry
PS: Unit slowly coming along. Getting ready for Ike.
Quote from: LarryC on September 08, 2008, 10:06:57 AM
May be able to modify. But, where did the arm with the round weights come from, it would have stuck out in the Bob K. pic. I can see how the lever could be hidden in the base.
@Bob, thanks for sharing. We really needed your help with the design. Looking forward to learning when we can order and how much.
Regards, Larry
PS: Unit slowly coming along. Getting ready for Ike.
Hi Larry,
I was keying off of Bob's previous comment: "To do this, a strong rod 3 feet out from the center to the end of the circumference of the rotating
unit. This is were the pivot point is for the leaver to lift the weights. The actual length of the rod is 42
inches. A 42 inch rod acts like a pry bar36 inches to develop the force and 6 inches to do the work.
---------------------o---
36 inches cl 6 inches
The 10 lb weight at the end of the 36 inch rod generates 30 lb (actually 60 but who's counting :) )plus 400 lb of weight from the wheel
rotating (flywheel affect) and with the pivot point 6 inches from the end , it can move a lot of weight."
I don't know if my drawing is correct or not. And you are right that there is no arm sticking out in the video. From what he wrote, we know that there is a 10 pound weight pressing down on the long arm of the lever somewhere to lift the weights. This is the only way that I can envision it. You say that it could be hidden in the base but how would it act like a lever from below?
Best regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 08, 2008, 11:09:33 AM
I was keying off of Bob's previous comment: "To do this, a strong rod 3 feet out from the center to the end of the circumference of the rotating
unit. This is were the pivot point is for the leaver to lift the weights. The actual length of the rod is 42
inches. A 42 inch rod acts like a pry bar36 inches to develop the force and 6 inches to do the work.
---------------------o---
36 inches cl 6 inches
The 10 lb weight at the end of the 36 inch rod generates 30 lb (actually 60 but who's counting :) )plus 400 lb of weight from the wheel
rotating (flywheel affect) and with the pivot point 6 inches from the end , it can move a lot of weight."
I don't know if my drawing is correct or not. And you are right that there is no arm sticking out in the video. From what he wrote, we know that there is a 10 pound weight pressing down on the long arm of the lever somewhere to lift the weights. This is the only way that I can envision it. You say that it could be hidden in the base but how would it act like a lever from below?
Actually Charlie, I'm more confused then before ??? Number one is how does the 6 inch section of a lever lift a weight set 8 inches? The second part of that problem is the long end only has one clock position (30 degrees) to move the short end.
About the 36 inch rod discussion, in my last version and Bob K. pic version, the weights moved 24 inches, but with the unusable 1 foot section in the center, the connecting rod was 36 inches. So maybe Bob is talking about a new design with a 25 inch connecting rod.
In your drawing it seems the lever with the pivot and stops are attached to the base. Since Bob K. machine was offset to the left on the base, it seems that the lever could be attached to the base but a little lower.
Your solution is one way, just didn't seem to fit the previous pic. Seems like it would be more of an L shaped lever connected to the backside of the unit, which could remain out of site until pulled. Just can't figure out how to get the distance required.
Not sure if the various 10 lb weight discussions was just a typo or 2 different sets.
@Bob,
Please assist, as we are confused again.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on September 08, 2008, 12:03:39 PM
Actually Charlie, I'm more confused then before ??? Number one is how does the 6 inch section of a lever lift a weight set 8 inches? The second part of that problem is the long end only has one clock position (30 degrees) to move the short end.
Good point! Seems like my previous drawing would work better. So I wonder how he is doing it? In my last email to him I asked specifically how the lever worked but he didn't really say. Just said that he is working on a new way to lift even more weight with a 'super-charger' (his words).
QuoteAbout the 36 inch rod discussion, in my last version and Bob K. pic version, the weights moved 24 inches, but with the unusable 1 foot section in the center, the connecting rod was 36 inches. So maybe Bob is talking about a new design with a 25 inch connecting rod.
Its possible that there is no 'unusable' section in the middle if the weights are mounted and track outside of the end of the center shaft. And what happened to the 2.5" and 10" lever? Perhaps he has completely revamped his design since he wrote before.
QuoteIn your drawing it seems the lever with the pivot and stops are attached to the base. Since Bob K. machine was offset to the left on the base, it seems that the lever could be attached to the base but a little lower.
Your point is well taken and there must be more to this lever that he is not explaining. His crude drawing of the 36"-----------------cl-----6" also seems to indicate that he is leveraging the weights from left as well.
QuoteYour solution is one way, just didn't seem to fit the previous pic. Seems like it would be more of an L shaped lever connected to the backside of the unit, which could remain out of site until pulled. Just can't figure out how to get the distance required.
Agreed. I hope we don't have to wait the additional 12 months before his patent is available before we figure this out :) .
QuoteNot sure if the various 10 lb weight discussions was just a typo or 2 different sets.
This is the part that threw me and why I embarked off on my new incredibly beautiful but hideously wrong drawing...:) .
Quote
@Bob,
Please assist, as we are confused again.
Yes please.
[/quote]
BTW, I was watching the weather and they said that Ike may track more toward Houston so hopefully it will only skirt your area.
Best regards,
Charlie
@Charlie,
This is the part that threw me and why I embarked off on my new incredibly beautiful but hideously wrong drawing...
Agreed, you do make incredibly beautiful drawings but I'm not sure it was hideously wrong. Maybe partially right on the lever.
I was watching the weather and they said that Ike may track more toward Houston so hopefully it will only skirt your area.
Yes, looking better for us, just finished my Gustav repairs today. But hope Ike goes to a less populated portion of Texas. Makes you wonder, at the current time tens of thousands of homes in south central La. will not have power/services until the beginning of October. Just think, no job, because your employer now has no power, so how many lives would be so much better with Bob K. machine.
Regards, Larry
I've sent off another email to Bob asking for more clarification. I hope he isn't getting tired of my questions. I'll let you know if/when he responds.......
Best regards,
Charlie
Well he just responded. Much quicker than I thought!
I asked how he was able to lift the weights 8" with the 6" end of the lever and he said,
"The dimensions I gave you were approximating. I used 24 inches to explain that the weights only need to be
lifted one half that distance, 12 inches before the centrifugal force does the rest.
The closer to the center the less energy needed to lift the weights.
The rod was the same. I tried to get you to see the amount of force you can generate with a leaver.
The cam starts the process and the rod completes it. As for the dimensions, they differ with the design of each machine.
Hope this helps....................Bob"
Best regards,
Charlie
Larry, would you be open to an off-line email?
"The closer to the center the less energy needed to lift the weights."
What is he exactly talking about here.
Quote from: broli on September 09, 2008, 06:37:45 AM
"The closer to the center the less energy needed to lift the weights."
What is he exactly talking about here.
Hi Broli,
There are 2 weights connected by a rod. One of the weights is located at the outermost circumference of the machine. The other (we assume) is just on the other side of the center. As these weights are rotated, the outer weight falls and drives the machine created by the overbalance condition. Through the use of a cam and a lever, the connected weights are raised up near the bottom of the rotation. The cam and lever need to overcome the centripetal force of the rotating weights. This force is greatest when the weights are at their outermost position. As the weights are raised up toward the center of the machine, the force required to move them up drops off exponentially. Once they are past the equilibrium point (both weights equal distances from the center) the weights travel upward on their own against gravity by centripetal force.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 07, 2008, 11:30:35 PM
Here's my latest concept drawing based on what we know so far. Bob has confirmed that the cam is fixed and works as I thought from 3:30 to around 5:00 then the lever takes over. Larry, you might be able to modify your design in this way.
Best regards,
Charlie
I see a problem with this drawing. The 10lb weight should be attached to the prybar. Also Having a return spring takes some of your mechanical
advantage away. I'm on the fence as to whether this gravity wheel actually works. Blame it on my schooling ;O) I would love to make an appointment to see it working since I don't live very far, but I would have to be invited.
Robert
Hi Robert,
Don't judge the actual machine by my drawing. This was just a 'best guess' on how it might work and yes, it probably doesn't work this way.
Did you see Bob Kostoff's video? If not, check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lD_65ggChs
Actually, we would be thrilled if you could visit Mr. Kostoff and see it first hand and let us know exactly how it does work.
You can contact him through his website, www.newsourceofenergy.com.
Best regards,
Charlie
Hi Charlie;
Yes saw the videos and read every reply in this forum. My comments were not entirely based on your drawing. BTW: Nice job on the drawing. I just never saw a 36" lever with a 10lb weight on it in the videos or pictures. Kinda hard to hide. How about those pneumatic rams? There are springs already to provide shock absorbtion. I hope this is the real thing but I remain skeptical and I think it is healthy to be skeptical.
Cheers,
Robert
So how far are you from Little Britain? Were you serious about going to see his machine? I don't know if he is open to people seeing it but we could ask.
Thanks,
Charlie
I live about 100miles from Bob. He lives near Lindsay (Little Britain) and I live in Kingston Ontario. I would be happy to go especially on a weekend if this can be arranged. I'd be happy to report back and take any vids or photos Bob would be will to let me take.
Robert
I hope you can get more close up video of it both running and stopped. :)
Jason
Hi Robert,
I sent off an email to Bob asking if he would allow someone to come and visit and see the machine. I'll let you know what he says.
Regards,
Charlie
Charlie let me know if you hear from Bob. I'd be very interested in meeting him and reviewing his design for the group.
Robert
Hi Robert,
I emailed him on Tuesday and haven't heard back yet. I asked if he would let me know either way so that even if its a 'no', I hope he will write and say so and not leave us hanging. However, he could just be busy so we will have to wait for his response.
Regards,
Charlie
PS- Also, I don't have any special influence with Bob so you might want to contact directly and explain who you are, where you live and why you would like to visit. Make he would be more receptive to a direct contact as opposed to going through a third party. Just a thought.
Quote@all
Here's my latest thinking on Bob's machine including how I believe the air cylinder might be configured. I'm throwing this out here so we can brainstorm any possible changes or obvious things I might have missed or possibly a better way to do it.
Regards,
Charlie
[edit] The center text is poorly worded. It should read "...lift it 8"-9" just past the center point".
Hi Charlie
Nice drawing! But was wondering what are the air cylinders for? Are you proposing external supply of pneumatic energy to the cylinders to move the weights? I thought this is a self rotating gravity powered flywheel?
unity2zero
Welcome to the forum.
You seem to miss the intent, that it is a self contained system air pumping design by its own movements.
Larry C
I am still working on the drawings of system that we talked about on the phone. It is tough tying to make a living and invent at the same time.
Quote from: noonespecial on September 09, 2008, 08:50:48 AM
Hi Broli,
There are 2 weights connected by a rod. One of the weights is located at the outermost circumference of the machine. The other (we assume) is just on the other side of the center. As these weights are rotated, the outer weight falls and drives the machine created by the overbalance condition. Through the use of a cam and a lever, the connected weights are raised up near the bottom of the rotation. The cam and lever need to overcome the centripetal force of the rotating weights. This force is greatest when the weights are at their outermost position. As the weights are raised up toward the center of the machine, the force required to move them up drops off exponentially. Once they are past the equilibrium point (both weights equal distances from the center) the weights travel upward on their own against gravity by centripetal force.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Charlie
Hi, Charlie
Looks like you are very close on getting it! Here is an article I found which may be of interest and an encouragement to you. At least the way he described how the flywheel was built is far better than Bob's. But be careful; just like what Bob had said, its a dangerous machine. Once you got it right and and spinning, you need to control the speed by using a braking system or have it put on load driving a dynamo or generator. Otherwise it would self destruct and the weights could fly off like a projectile. Here is the link: http://www.thewritestuff.org.uk/technicalpemb.htm
Hope you find this helpful.
Good Luck
Quote from: unity2zero on September 12, 2008, 11:50:25 PM
Hi Charlie
Nice drawing! But was wondering what are the air cylinders for? Are you proposing external supply of pneumatic energy to the cylinders to move the weights? I thought this is a self rotating gravity powered flywheel?
Hi unity2zero,
I offer my welcome as well. The Creative Science machine, which is similar, works with an external air source. The key difference in this particular design is thought to be that the inventor, Bob Kostoff, has developed a way that the external power source is no longer required. The exact mechanism to do this is not known yet. My drawing speculates that the accelerated force of the weight being flung upward presses on the lever and compresses the air cylinder. The air is expelled from the cylinder and forced into a pneumatic accumulator where it is stored. When that same cylinder reaches the bottom of the rotation, a valve releases the stored pressure back into the cylinder and the extending cylinder moves the lever and lifts the weights completing the cycle.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Charlie
unity2zero
What you are talking about is the speed plus gravity effect for a runaway to fly apart. My wheel is only 3 ft tall and all I have to do is lay it on its side and it will stop, but funny it will act like a gyro while laying it down. In any larger device a very good break is needed. But you have to look at terminal velocity natural friction. Bessler's wheels didn't run off. The fastest one only ran about 60 RPM. Bobs I am not sure but in the video it looked only about 35 to 40 RPM. Balance and vibration can be a very large factor in the fly apart effect.
PS my devices I am working on are not like Bobs. except I am trying to help Larry C.
@All,
My unit will be using a variable rise rate inclined plane instead of a cam and lever combo. An inclined plane has the same mechanical advantage as a lever, except I can control more precisely.
So I set up a spreadsheet to determine the combination of centrifugal forces as the unit is lifted 13 inches. Weight, Rpm, Radius of each weight and starting lift ratio can be entered. Each CF is generated and the difference is the force needed to pull the weight up for each inch. Then the lift ratio is calculated based on the lifting force needed for each CF 1 - 2 value.
The Lift Ratio and length column is calculated from the CF decrease ratio column using a entered starting lift value. So if the value is 7.50 then the slope of the plane will be 1 inch rise over 7.5 inch length. The total inches at the bottom will be the length of the entire plane.
An interesting fact was noted. My current unit has a 23 slide. But the weight boxes are 29 and 6 inches from the center as can be seen in the unit picture. The first Centrifugal force at 29 pic shows the results. When I changed it to 48 and 25, still a 23 slide, the CF 1 - 2 values remained the same. The advantage is the momentum doubled because the Rpm was the same while the radius and weight velocity increased. The main forces to assist the lift is the stored CF slam in the springs/cylinder and momentum. So increasing the radius would seem to help.
I've included the Excel (.xls dataset) for anyone who wants to play with the input values in blue.
Regards, Larry
@All,
I've added the momentum values to the spreadsheet. See Excel attached dataset.
Does anybody know a formula to calculate the Centrifugal slam value?
Regards Larry
While Larry is developing his ramp-lift project, here's my latest thinking on an alternate way this could be accomplished without the use of pneumatics. Remember, the drawings are conceptual so don't be too critical :). I tried to describe everything in the drawings but if something is unclear, let me know!
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 14, 2008, 11:54:06 AM
While Larry is developing his ramp-lift project, here's my latest thinking on an alternate way this could be accomplished without the use of pneumatics. Remember, the drawings are conceptual so don't be too critical :). I tried to describe everything in the drawings but if something is unclear, let me know!
Regards,
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Haven't analyzed the nice drawings yet, but it seems my spreedsheet is misleading. You should be using the CF 1 - 2 column with a value of 15.34 lbs for the fifth inch lift. The CF 1 - 2 column represents the actual force needed to lift the combined weights. Because CF 1 is on the opposite side of the center to CF 2 as they are opposing forces and assist in the lift.
So I am attaching a new version with a Lift for Inch column which should clear it up a little. I've also noticed a problem with the momentum conversion from Kg/meters to Ft/lb, so that has been corrected. Values now closer to Bob K's post.
Regards,
Larry
Hi Larry,
The reference in my drawing came from changing the individual weights in your spreadsheet to 20 ea. (as in the drawing) instead of 10. However using the new spreadsheet the CF 1-2 for inch 5 is now over 30 lbs. so that kills my design! :) However, I noticed that radius 1, inch 1, also changed (I think) from 23 to 29?? Is this because your machine is 5' in diameter? If I change radius 1, inch 1 back to 23" the CF 1-2 drops to 18.4 which then would work fine.
Thanks,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on September 14, 2008, 08:55:56 PM
Hi Larry,
The reference in my drawing came from changing the individual weights in your spreadsheet to 20 ea. (as in the drawing) instead of 10. However using the new spreadsheet the CF 1-2 for inch 5 is now over 30 lbs. so that kills my design! :) However, I noticed that radius 1, inch 1, also changed (I think) from 23 to 29?? Is this because your machine is 5' in diameter? If I change radius 1, inch 1 back to 23" the CF 1-2 drops to 18.4 which then would work fine.
Thanks,
Charlie
Sorry, misunderstood that weight change from 10 to 20. Not sure about your problem, but no change in CF calcs. Should be 29 for Radius 1 and 6 for radius 2. This represents the center of weight boxes. Actual slide is 23. Weight boxes are about 5' diameter, but lift plane may be at 6' diameter to get required ratio.
Regards, Larry
I'm having my doubts about this gravity motor.
I do not think it works with a lever. As the rotor moves, it accellerates with no load. How can a lever system work in this case? Centrifical forces would increase as rotation increases. The lever would have less and less effect as speed increases making it completely inadequate in moving the weights to there half way point. We are not seeing the whole picture. Bob does not answer his emails and appears he has no interest in anyone having a look at his machine.
Robert
Hi Robert,
You make some good points and you are correct about not seeing the whole picture. I'm afraid we won't see that until the patent comes out.
It's highly likely that rotational speed is critical to this design. I also think that the relationship between weight and arm length could also play a key role in a working machine.
Regarding the lever, I've showed it as being independent from the rotor which could be totally wrong. If it were directly linked to the rotor in some way, rotational speed becomes less of an issue because then the rotor would drive the speed of the lever. I'll have a look at that idea and see what I can come up with.
Regards,
Charlie
The more I've watched the videos of this machine and the pictures, the less I believe it is a gravity motor without external assist.
Bob said he used a lever 33" long. Nowhere is this indicated in any of the media. Impossible to hide if there was a lever. Also have a good look at the still pic with Bob to the left of the machine. Look at the center hydrolic hose. Why is it tied to a vertical stationary support? Seems it probably goes to a pump. Something to think about. I know we all want to belive but there are too many inconsistencies. I really would like to be wrong.
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Quote from: valveman on September 18, 2008, 09:07:56 PM
The more I've watched the videos of this machine and the pictures, the less I believe it is a gravity motor without external assist.
Bob said he used a lever 33" long. Nowhere is this indicated in any of the media. Impossible to hide if there was a lever. Also have a good look at the still pic with Bob to the left of the machine. Look at the center hydrolic hose. Why is it tied to a vertical stationary support? Seems it probably goes to a pump. Something to think about. I know we all want to belive but there are too many inconsistencies. I really would like to be wrong.
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Hi Robert,
Maybe you should do some additional analyzing before saying "Impossible to hide if there was a lever". There is a lot of area behind the unit which is 18 to 24" wide and 7 to 8' long.
Regards, Larry
Larry
have you seen all the videos and pics? No way a lever can be hidden but this is my opinion. Some of the pics show the other side and no lever! Anyway, I think my other post explains clearly that a lever looses its effectiveness as the centrifical forces increase with increases in acceleration. Just my opinion.
@ Valveman:
You know, now that you mention it, those hoses are high pressure hydraulic hoses designed for very high psi pressure. There is no way that a self rotating device, at relatively slow rpm's, would generate any kind of high pressure at all in those cylinders, if it did, that would waste a huge amount of energy. Just look at the size of the motors that are used on hydraulic pumps in many industries.
When I owned my machining company, we had 2 ultrasonic diamond drills that used air/oil cylinders to move the drill head. This was a "low pressure" system and used regular plastic tubing for the hydraulic lines. This system still required the use of a fairly good sized air compressor operating at about 120 psi in order to function.
Those hoses on the device are rated for 1,000's of psi. He even uses high pressure connections which can be seen plainly.
I mentioned this a while back, not in reference to the high pressure hoses, but to the hoses in general. They made me a little dubious. And, as has just been pointed out by you, we see a hose leaving the device and going out of the picture. And, it is mounted on a pole or something in a fixed position. To me, this parallels so many Youtube videos on energy devices where we see a wire, or two, running to the device and out of the frame. Does not mean this device is a fraud, but it is reason for additional suspicion on my part. Good observation.
Bill
@ Pirate88179
I remember Bob mentioned the cylinders were for pneumatic shock absorbtion. Why use Hydraulic hoses and not plastic hoses? My hope is that Bob is still reading the forums and will help to answer some of these questions.
Bob please steer us straight :O)
BTW: I wasn't aware you could use a hydraulic cylinder as an air cylinder. I know the hydraulic cylindeers are fairly stiff.
Robert
Yes, obviously hydraulic hoses, cylinder, etc. However, there must be a coupling where the hose curves and connects into the center of the rotor as seen in the picture that allows rotation.
Remember that this is an older picture and design. There are later ones that clearly show only air lines/cylinders.
Regards,
Charlie
OK unless I miss my guess, that is a hydraulic pump in this photo located in the up right part of the photo. I am sorry I did not take the time to label it but it can be seen clearly by following the hoses. As you would expect, there is a hose leading into it, and a hose leading out. A drum of hydraulic fluid (5 gal.) can bee seen directly under the pump.
Now, it has just been said that this was a proof of concept model and not the free running device. Bob has another device. I have not seen this other device so I can't comment on it. If this device pictured was never supposed to be self-running then that is fine. That is not the way I took it but possibly I misunderstood this from the beginning. Please understand that I am just pointing out what can be clearly seen in this photo, based upon my experience.
I truly hope he has a self-runner and I also hope that he shares the info with us here. Even this device, you can also clearly see that he has put a lot of time and effort in both designing and building it. In my opinion, he has done a great job on both. Let's hope he comes here to update us on his new device.
Bill
@ Pirate, Thats a pump from a swimming pool filter system.
OK, so that's why there are two heavy hydraulic hoses going to it? One in and one out? Follow the hoses and you can see. Even if you were right, and it is a swimming pool pump, which I don't agree, why is this pump hooked up to this device then? The hoses both attach at the top of the pump, which is common.
Maybe someone with better software than I can enlarge even further?
Bill
What happened to the guys from the forums
living nearBob ?
DidnÂÃ,´t you yet call him ?
What did he say on the phone ?
Could you go visit him ?
Why hasnÂÃ,´t nobody living near him visited him
and taken new better videos ?
if it isn't 100% open source then it is most likely fake >:(. i have moved on from this thread a long time ago, but have not completely disregarded :).
anyways good luck with this illusion, maybe you guys can "crack the code" for this gravity wheel someday ::)
peace
Greetings FreeEnergy
I haven't crossed word with you for a wile. LOL I posted a couple more designs on this string. Take a look and read closely.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5541.40.html
Quote from: AB Hammer on September 19, 2008, 09:52:29 PM
Greetings FreeEnergy
I haven't crossed word with you for a wile. LOL I posted a couple more designs on this string. Take a look and read closely.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5541.40.html
AB Hammer,
I can't wait to see an actual working model for this. It looks good and all but we still need to build an actual prototype of this to make sure it works.
peace
Quote from: hartiberlin on September 19, 2008, 06:25:31 PM
What happened to the guys from the forums
living nearBob ?
DidnÂÃ,´t you yet call him ?
What did he say on the phone ?
Could you go visit him ?
Why hasnÂÃ,´t nobody living near him visited him
and taken new better videos ?
No response to email. I'll try again.
Robert
Please call him by phone and report back.
Many thanks.
P.S:Please let me know, if you need this number.
Regards, Stefan.
@pirate, if I'm wrong then so be it, http://www.poolcenter.com/_derived/parts_pumps_hayward_superpump.htm_txt_parts_pumps_superpump.gif
A heavy hydraulic pump would not use cheap clear pastic to "view" the flow of the fluid, but a pool filter does, hey maybe this guy just used what he had laying around, I cant blame him, Fuck me running, I would put fork oil in a pool filter/ pump if its all I had , why not? I dont wanna but heads , without you blowing up the pic , i would have never saw it!!!, So u deserve the cred, good job. In fact , blow up some more , and I'll use my Eagle Eye for all to hEAR. :) :) Keep it fun , thanx
X00013
LOL it looks like you may be a victim of an optical illusion. There are 2 different items the hydrolic pump and what you think is the filter box is just a storage box under the counter further back, look at the hinge and the color difference.
@All,
Bob's comments on how the levers work:
"The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8"). "
Based on those comments, LarryC and I have developed a similar weight lifting lever system which can be hidden behind the rotor portion of Bob's unit. You have probably noticed that there are no photos of the back of the machine. The weight and springs in our picture are just shown for clarity, they are actually on the other side in Bob's unit.
Larry is currently working on detailed dimensions and will post them in a day or two.
Regards,
Charlie
Emailed Bob and no response. Guess he's not interested in anyone seeing his machine.
Robert
@ noonespecial
I like the diagram and followed the explaination. Wasn't it also mentioned that a weight was placed on the lever? When the actuator takes the weight the rest of the way, how does it get recharged to do this all over again?
Yes there is a pic of the rear of the machine. I still see no indication of a lever.
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Robert
@all,
The following drawing has more detail dimensions on the hidden weight lifting system shown in Charlie's last drawings.
Regards, Larry
For those who can't open a .doc here's a jpg version of Larry's detail.
Regards,
Charlie
@Valveman
I don't think that Bob was referring to a literal weight but rather the force applied to the lever to lift the weights up.
Regarding the drawing, the weight will ascend to the top by centifugal force as the rotation continues and lock into the upper weight slot to be lifted again at the bottom of the rotation.
RE: pic
This is still the front side of his machine. The large pulley drives the 5K generator at the bottom.
Quote from: noonespecial on September 23, 2008, 06:23:51 PM
For those who can't open a .doc here's a jpg version of Larry's detail.
Regards,
Charlie
@Valveman
I don't think that Bob was referring to a literal weight but rather the force applied to the lever to lift the weights up.
Regarding the drawing, the weight will ascend to the top by centifugal force as the rotation continues and lock into the upper weight slot to be lifted again at the bottom of the rotation.
RE: pic
This is still the front side of his machine. The large pulley drives the 5K generator at the bottom.
How can that be the front? Look at the bolts and nuts. The other pic showing the front, does not show the nuts. That is definitely the rear. If it is the front, then where are all the hoses? How would you attach the large wheel with all those hoses in the way? How would the spring shock absorber work with the bolts in the way of travel? In fact, where are the spring shock absorbers? My guess, they are on the other side. The brake was on the side facing front. There is no brake on this side of the shaft. If i'm wrong, please tell me where my thinking is wrong.
Robert
Quote from: valveman on September 23, 2008, 11:17:21 AM
@ noonespecial
I like the diagram and followed the explaination. Wasn't it also mentioned that a weight was placed on the lever? When the actuator takes the weight the rest of the way, how does it get recharged to do this all over again?
Yes there is a pic of the rear of the machine. I still see no indication of a lever.
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Robert
What are the three things on the end of the shaft on top of the brick, comutator timing?? electrical timing?? rpm sensor??
Quote from: valveman on September 23, 2008, 06:36:35 PM
How can that be the front? Look at the bolts and nuts. The other pic showing the front, does not show the nuts. That is definitely the rear. If it is the front, then where are all the hoses? How would you attach the large wheel with all those hoses in the way? How would the spring shock absorber work with the bolts in the way of travel? In fact, where are the spring shock absorbers? My guess, they are on the other side. The brake was on the side facing front. There is no brake on this side of the shaft. If i'm wrong, please tell me where my thinking is wrong.
Robert
I think its important to remember that Bob has built several machines. Take a look at the air cylinders in this picture with the clear plastic tubing. The other photo has hydraulic cylinders and heavy black hydraulic hose. This is a totally different machine.
Quote from: Tempest on September 23, 2008, 06:43:21 PM
What are the three things on the end of the shaft on top of the brick, comutator timing?? electrical timing?? rpm sensor??
If you look at the other photo taken from a different angle you can clearly see 3 slip ring contacts connected to a power cord. The 'brick' is actually a piece of wood. I don't know what the actual purpose of this was but could have been used to trigger a solenoid or relay to fire off the air cylinder at the proper time. Again, this is an older machine and he could have been using this to develop the machine.
Regards,
Charlie
@Robert,
The pictures are of two totally different machines. In your latest pic (older Bob machine) the horizontal bars to the rear of the wheel have less width than the space in between. Based on the 2X4 holding the commutators, the bars are about 5" width and the space in between is about 7". In Bob's new machine pic (your reply #495) the bars are about 9" width and the space in between is about 2". Also notice the total difference in the bolt pattern. In your latest pic there is one set of bolts on each bar in Bob's pic there is 2 on each bar. Also notice the rear of Bob's new machine had a 4'H X 4'W X 6'L base supporting the unit, no large wheel. Many other differences, but I grow tired of pointing them out.
The differences are obvious.
Larry
OK I hope you're right and I'll assume they are two different machines.
Thanks,
Robert
In 1712, if only Johann Bessler would simply let out his secret of his perpetual gravity wheel to the world before he died, those ice in the north pole shouldn't be melting or at least very much later. The air we breath now should be so much purer. No flooding of rivers to make hydro electric. Imagine thousands upon thousands of animals, birds and species including plants, trees and forest were being wiped by building these dams.. Sigh !!
Quote from: unity2zero on September 25, 2008, 11:21:30 AM
In 1712, if only Johann Bessler would simply let out his secret of his perpetual gravity wheel to the world before he died, those ice in the north pole shouldn't be melting or at least very much later. The air we breath now should be so much purer. No flooding of rivers to make hydro electric. Imagine thousands upon thousands of animals, birds and species including plants, trees and forest were being wiped by building these dams.. Sigh !!
Unity2zero,
Well stated, now are we going to let it happen again?
@All,
Recheck reply #105 by hartiberlin. The newspaper is The Lindsay Post of Ontario,Canada by Jason Bain. He is still posting at that paper so seems to still be credible.
If Bob was running his machine from an outside energy source a decent reporter would have ate him up!
Recently, there seems to be a lot of concern about other equipment laying around in his shop. Just think if every piece of old equipment in your shop was though to be part of your energy machine.
I don't know about Bob's condition after his serious auto accident and rehabilitation, so lets at least give him the benefit of the doubt.
So can anyone else try to help figure out how to get Bob's machine replicated instead of why it can't work?
Regards, Larry
Larry:
With all due respect, any comments I made were not about "other equipment laying around his shop", as you put it. My comments were directed toward the "other equipment" that was ATTACHED to his device. (see previously posted photo enlargement.) Just follow the hoses, it is easy to do.
I was then told that this photo was not THE machine but a previous model. OK. I said I don't know anything about that. I was not aware there were multiple machines we were dealing with, and if I made that mistake, it is my fault.
But, to say that were are confusing stuff laying about his shop with his machine is very disingenuous in my opinion. The only comments I made involved other equipment that was clearly attached to his device with high pressure hoses.
As for the reporters, I am fairly confident that not one of them would know a hydraulic pump if it bit them in the butt. I would not use this as any "evidence" that this device works.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 25, 2008, 08:22:59 PM
Larry:
With all due respect, any comments I made were not about "other equipment laying around his shop", as you put it. My comments were directed toward the "other equipment" that was ATTACHED to his device. (see previously posted photo enlargement.) Just follow the hoses, it is easy to do.
I was then told that this photo was not THE machine but a previous model. OK. I said I don't know anything about that. I was not aware there were multiple machines we were dealing with, and if I made that mistake, it is my fault.
But, to say that were are confusing stuff laying about his shop with his machine is very disingenuous in my opinion. The only comments I made involved other equipment that was clearly attached to his device with high pressure hoses.
As for the reporters, I am fairly confident that not one of them would know a hydraulic pump if it bit them in the butt. I would not use this as any "evidence" that this device works.
Bill
Hello Bill,
Not all directed at you, but actually the photo that you were using is the latest machine design as far as I understand.
And yes, a reporter may not know a hydraulic pump if it bit them in the butt, but they would notice if any external device is attached to the machine and question relentlessly.
However, I do agree with
X0013 that it is a pool pump below the rear table, as I have seen several, and with
AB Hammer that it is an optical illusion that they seem connected.
The machine is on approximately a 4'H X 4'W X 6'D base, the table with the pool pump is to the rear of the base. Look at the way the top of the machine base on the upper right side veers to the center of the picture. If that bottom small pool pump hose was hooked to the rotating arm it would get ripped off.
But, If you don't agree, then we agree to disagree.
Now, I am not familiar with high pressure hydraulic pumps, but why does the hose just below the center seem to crumple up like a garden hose?
Also, I would appreciate your input on the cylinders and hoses on Bob's machine, but please disregard the rear pool pump hoses.
Thanks, Larry
@ Larry:
I appreciate your attitude. I still believe the pump in the photo was connected to the device, but, of course, I could be wrong. So we can agree to disagree on that. As far as the hoses you mentioned, I am not sure which photo you are speaking about? Would you mind posting the photo and maybe put an arrow to the hoses or just describe where they are? I just want to make sure I am not getting confused on which photo is of which device. I have seen a device with the high pressure hoses and then I have seen a device with just regular plastic air lines of much smaller diameter. I believe it is normal for a guy like Bob, or any of us for that matter, to have several variations of a device as it progresses through its design stages. This part does not bother me at all.
On the photo in a recent above post, I do see the "switching" mechanism someone mentioned on the shaft of the device. Yes, to me this appears to be a timing control device of some kind, which makes sense. What I am not sure about is where the power comes from to run these pick-ups? I know he has it hooked to a generator but the output from that would, to my way of thinking, be too high, and also, not consistent as it would vary with rpm's. If it were me, I would run the switches off a battery and then dump the generator juice into the battery, or bank of batteries. What are your thoughts on this?
Again, I appreciate your attitude in wanting to discuss this as opposed to argue about it. The only person that really KNOWS for sure is Bob. I guess the best the rest of us can do is to speculate, guess, discuss, and exchange ideas and theories. Take care.
Bill
I'm on the fence on this one. I'm awaiting the big bang that will show us all that this is indeed a working machine. There are many questions to be asked as to the validity of this design. Also I really don't care whether you share my thoughts or not. The simple truth is it either works or not. So far no indication it actually works. Pictures are of poor quality as well as the videos. If you are 100% convinced it works, then good for you. I'm not here to change your mind. I will however ask questions so I can better understand what's going on. If anyone is offended that I question the validity of an unverified design, well that's the way it goes.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 27, 2008, 12:46:47 PM
@ Larry:
I appreciate your attitude. I still believe the pump in the photo was connected to the device, but, of course, I could be wrong. So we can agree to disagree on that. As far as the hoses you mentioned, I am not sure which photo you are speaking about? Would you mind posting the photo and maybe put an arrow to the hoses or just describe where they are? I just want to make sure I am not getting confused on which photo is of which device. I have seen a device with the high pressure hoses and then I have seen a device with just regular plastic air lines of much smaller diameter. I believe it is normal for a guy like Bob, or any of us for that matter, to have several variations of a device as it progresses through its design stages. This part does not bother me at all.
On the photo in a recent above post, I do see the "switching" mechanism someone mentioned on the shaft of the device. Yes, to me this appears to be a timing control device of some kind, which makes sense. What I am not sure about is where the power comes from to run these pick-ups? I know he has it hooked to a generator but the output from that would, to my way of thinking, be too high, and also, not consistent as it would vary with rpm's. If it were me, I would run the switches off a battery and then dump the generator juice into the battery, or bank of batteries. What are your thoughts on this?
Again, I appreciate your attitude in wanting to discuss this as opposed to argue about it. The only person that really KNOWS for sure is Bob. I guess the best the rest of us can do is to speculate, guess, discuss, and exchange ideas and theories. Take care.
Bill
@Bill,
Your attitude has been great as well.
Used your photo and the crumpled hose is just to the left of the text.
The photo from reply #515 with the switching is of an older machine. But I've always thought it was similar the the Creative Science Fuelless Gravity machine. Which has an option of using compressed air or electromagnetic as power.
I agree with your statement "I guess the best the rest of us can do is to speculate, guess, discuss, and exchange ideas and theories." and would like to add that those that can should try to replicate.
I've included some pic's from my latest Bob build.
The Full length of machine pic show the whole machine attached to a piling and a support 2X4 in front. Trust me none of the stuff to the rear of the piling will have anything to do with the running of the machine.
The Roller and Irwin clamp pic shows to the right the roller on the weight box which will ride the inclined plane to lift both weight boxes. The Irwin clamp tensions the bungee cord and can lock at variable distances and just a touch of the release handle will release it. I can add more Irwin clamps and change to springs, but that will be based on testing. Bungee cord are much easier to adjust during testing. The Irwin clamps can handle around 150 lbs of force.
The Center roller shows part of the ceiling fan rotor bar with bearing support. The back side has another bearing support.
The unit rocks back and forth like a pendulum with a slight touch.
The Sliding door roller pic is from the rear and shows the 1/2" angle iron bar with adjustable height sliding door rollers supporting the weight box. The unit slides easily with no weights in the boxes when just above level.
I have to add some centrifugal slam shock absorbing material and some additional bracing. Also, I have to cut my variable rise inclined plane, so maybe by this coming Friday I'll have some test results. Also, with this design if the variable rise inclined plane doesn't work, I'll be able to add the center cam and articulating arm that Charlie and I showed.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on September 28, 2008, 07:15:44 PM
@Bill,
Your attitude has been great as well.
Used your photo and the crumpled hose is just to the left of the text.
The photo from reply #515 with the switching is of an older machine. But I've always thought it was similar the the Creative Science Fuelless Gravity machine. Which has an option of using compressed air or electromagnetic as power.
I agree with your statement "I guess the best the rest of us can do is to speculate, guess, discuss, and exchange ideas and theories." and would like to add that those that can should try to replicate.
I've included some pic's from my latest Bob build.
The Full length of machine pic show the whole machine attached to a piling and a support 2X4 in front. Trust me none of the stuff to the rear of the piling will have anything to do with the running of the machine.
The Roller and Irwin clamp pic shows to the right the roller on the weight box which will ride the inclined plane to lift both weight boxes. The Irwin clamp tensions the bungee cord and can lock at variable distances and just a touch of the release handle will release it. I can add more Irwin clamps and change to springs, but that will be based on testing. Bungee cord are much easier to adjust during testing. The Irwin clamps can handle around 150 lbs of force.
The Center roller shows part of the ceiling fan rotor bar with bearing support. The back side has another bearing support.
The unit rocks back and forth like a pendulum with a slight touch.
The Sliding door roller pic is from the rear and shows the 1/2" angle iron bar with adjustable height sliding door rollers supporting the weight box. The unit slides easily with no weights in the boxes when just above level.
I have to add some centrifugal slam shock absorbing material and some additional bracing. Also, I have to cut my variable rise inclined plane, so maybe by this coming Friday I'll have some test results. Also, with this design if the variable rise inclined plane doesn't work, I'll be able to add the center cam and articulating arm that Charlie and I showed.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry
Does these rollers and weights sliding along the 1/2" angled irons moves very easily? Let say if I tilt it at an angle of 15 degree from horizontal with both weight balanced in the middle, will it slide easily and forcefully towards the other side of the lower end?
Thanks.
Quote from: unity2zero on October 02, 2008, 04:43:20 AM
Hi Larry
Does these rollers and weights sliding along the 1/2" angled irons moves very easily? Let say if I tilt it at an angle of 15 degree from horizontal with both weight balanced in the middle, will it slide easily and forcefully towards the other side of the lower end?
Thanks.
Yes to both questions. Sliding door rollers are usually made to run on a track with a 1/8 round center edge and the 1/2" angle iron has a 1/8 round edge.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on October 02, 2008, 10:03:44 AM
Yes to both questions. Sliding door rollers are usually made to run on a track with a 1/8 round center edge and the 1/2" angle iron has a 1/8 round edge.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
I think what Bob had done is contrary to ideas he had given on the description of his gravity machine in this forum. Since you have built one with the sliding weight as what he had said, you couldn't possibly start or kick off the machine at the vertical or 12 o'clock position as all the weights are at the bottom. But if you observe Bob's video carefully, he started off at this vertical position which couldn't possibly be.
Quote from: valveman on September 28, 2008, 07:02:04 PM
I'm on the fence on this one. I'm awaiting the big bang that will show us all that this is indeed a working machine. There are many questions to be asked as to the validity of this design. Also I really don't care whether you share my thoughts or not. The simple truth is it either works or not. So far no indication it actually works. Pictures are of poor quality as well as the videos. If you are 100% convinced it works, then good for you. I'm not here to change your mind. I will however ask questions so I can better understand what's going on. If anyone is offended that I question the validity of an unverified design, well that's the way it goes.
I tried to contact him as well, in March or April I believe. Stefan wanted to know if anyone telephoned him. He said he has his number. Would you consider calling him? I agree, the videos are too dark and unclear and the stills leave too much to the imagination. I think a good schematic with an accompanying theory of operation would be best for all would be replicators. Anyway, like you I hope this works but at the moment it's kinda frustrating trying to figure this thing out.
Quote from: unity2zero on October 04, 2008, 10:06:56 PM
Hi Larry,
I think what Bob had done is contrary to ideas he had given on the description of his gravity machine in this forum. Since you have built one with the sliding weight as what he had said, you couldn't possibly start or kick off the machine at the vertical or 12 o'clock position as all the weights are at the bottom. But if you observe Bob's video carefully, he started off at this vertical position which couldn't possibly be.
I don't want to presume to speak for Larry however.....:)
Bob's machine uses a secondary actuator arm that lifts the weights up after the initial cam lift. You can see this more clearly at the very end of the video where the weights are raised and stay in the up postion after it stops. Larry however, is experimenting with an alternate variable ramp mechanism that doesn't need the actuator arm.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: unity2zero on October 04, 2008, 10:06:56 PM
Hi Larry,
I think what Bob had done is contrary to ideas he had given on the description of his gravity machine in this forum. Since you have built one with the sliding weight as what he had said, you couldn't possibly start or kick off the machine at the vertical or 12 o'clock position as all the weights are at the bottom. But if you observe Bob's video carefully, he started off at this vertical position which couldn't possibly be.
Bob may have just put a small piece of metal in the roller edge as a jam, then a string could have pulled it out at 3:00. There are many other ways and none of them would need to be obvious. I used this at first but I had a problem with the bounce back effect of my shock absorbing material after the CF sling capture. It is the medium weight black material where the boxes would impact in both pictures.
I've included a picture of a light weight catch. It is the aluminum bar with the 45 degree slide at the top edge of the weight box. It latches as the box gets close to the end. At an rpm of 60 it would not be needed as the CF force will hold the boxes without bounce back. Bob air shocks were probably of the type that would have not bounce back.
The latch does work but I'll be changing to another design as that area has a tolerance issue with the incline plane.
I don't have the release mechanism for the Irwin clamps on yet, but it won't take long after I get a new light weight catch setup.
I've included a picture of the variable rise rate inclined plane. With a good push from 2:00 it causes the CF sling and capture in the Irwin clamp. When the machine is standing still in vertical, both weight boxes cannot push the Irwing clamps to bottom (1/2 way), with the CF sling it bottoms out.
Also included the latest version of my spreadsheet as I needed to account for the shorter radius in the Lift Ratio and length calculations as the boxes moved up to midpoint plus 1". I've also added a Lift in degrees column.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
nice design.
Maybe you can post soon a video of it on youtube or anywhere else,
so it gets more clearer.
Many thanks in advance.
Keep up the good work.
Hope to see soon someone visiting Bob
and take some videos of his current design.
Bob are you still here ?
What about your latest progress ?
Regards, Stefan.
@Stephan,
Thanks and I will post a video as soon as I get the bugs worked out.
@All,
I was testing the unit varying the weights in the boxes and the weights at the edge of the unit when it misfired and fell straight down into the back end of the inclined plane. See pic of gravity slam.
So while the inclined plane is great at varying the lift ratio in proportion to the CF force, it is in a dangerous position. I could change to a heavier roller support, but something else would end up breaking. Bob mentioned several times about making sure the forces don't tear the machine apart.
So I am going to go back to trying a center cam and actuator arm for the lift as Bob stated. It would be in a much less dangerous position, but it will be more challenging to build.
Regards, Larry
@ Larry:
Wow! A lot of force is needed to do that kind of damage. Good luck with your revisions...don't give up.
Bill
Larry-
Hope Ike has not got you down. We managed to get everyone back to Alexandria okay after all the crap, but we really enjoyed some cajun cooking here in Dallas while they were with us. Good luck and keep up the good work! Your last couple of posts have been very EXCITING!
Peace
-Sq
Quote from: squegee69 on October 10, 2008, 12:44:20 AM
Hope Ike has not got you down. We managed to get everyone back to Alexandria okay after all the crap, but we really enjoyed some cajun cooking here in Dallas while they were with us. Good luck and keep up the good work! Your last couple of posts have been very EXCITING!
Hi Sq,
Thanks, I'm still hanging in there. Ike and Gustov both had about the same winds and flooding. One tragedy, I live in a salt water area, but with the salt water intrusion, lots of animals came out of the fresh water marsh to the North, many died on the highway. See Ike 1 pic for the water level.
@All,
I've included pictures of a Cam and actuator arm test bed. I don't have a simulator, so it was the easiest way to work out the mechanics before I add actual mechanics to the unit. The picture are confusing in that they all look like the Cam and actuator arm are rotating. When in actual use the Cam and actuator arm are fixed to the supporting base. Just the unit with weight and lever are rotating around. So if you rotate the pic and keep the Cam and actuator arm at 45 degrees it may make more sense.
It is hard to see but around the cam I have clock positions. The times worked out as follows:
Lift inches Time
0 3:15
4 4:20
13 5:15
19.5 6:15 (no pic)
21 7:15
The act arm starts a more aggressive lift after 4", then after the lift phase it continues to hold the unit up at top until just prior to restart at 3:15 again. Holding the unit at top is only necessary at the start, until the CF forces take over at a certain RPM. The levers have a pivot on the end, 2.5" to the roller and 10" past as in one of Bob's statements.
The larger piece of plywood is 20" wide (close to Bob's). The levers will be on the back side of the unit and would be completely hidden at top thru 3:30 ;D
The lever pivot holes are 3 5/8 from the cam center and 3/8" to top/bottom of the horizon. The cams base radius is 1 3/4" and has a .80" lift at 45 degrees, after that the act arm takes over.
There are many ways to make a act arm, this is just one possibility. With the previous inclined plane I calculated the lift ratio to be proportional to the CF force. In this case, I can calculate the lift ratio for the cam and act arm, but with two offset different size rotating radius, it is much more complicated to calculate the total. Can anyone with a simulator help?
Regards, Larry
Bob,
If you are still reading this thread, we would appreciate your comments on LarryC's design.
Thanks,
Charlie
Larry.. looks like you're getting close.. Would Bob be willing to draw detailed plans? It sure would be nice. I don't think Bob has his totally self powered as I think he also used an air compressor to help move the weights. That is fine if you can generate more power than the compressor uses.
Jason
Dangers of Free Energy Technology
by Larry McCart
If the transition to free energy technology is not well managed, free energy technology could have disastrous effects on national security of a number of nations. Free energy technology has the potential to cause a big drop in crude oil prices.
A big drop in crude oil prices would result in a big drop in Russian income from crude oil sales. Much of Russian income comes from crude oil sales, and a lot of their income comes from sales of military equipment to crude oil producing nations. A big drop in crude oil prices would cause a big drop in the amount of military equipment crude oil producing nations could afford to buy, resulting in a big drop in Russian income from military equipment sales. A big drop in crude oil prices might result in a communist take-over in Russia.
A big drop in crude oil prices could cause the overthrow of governments in some nations, especially nations like Saudi Arabia where religious radicals would like to take over. Many of the social programs to help the poor in Mexico would have to be reduced in size or eliminated if revenues from crude oil sales go way down. A big drop in crude oil prices might result in a communist take-over in Venezuela.
A big drop in crude oil prices could cause widespread unemployment in the United States and Canada. Because of big layoffs in the oil industry, the buying power would not be there to maintain economic prosperity in other industries like home building and auto manufacturing. The result could be a severe recession or even an economic depression in the United States and Canada.
Wide-spread use of free-energy technology could cause a big decline in petroleum refining. Sulfur is a by-product of petroleum refining; a large part of sulfur production is because of petroleum refining. A big decline in petroleum refining would cause a big decline in sulfur production. Sulfur is needed to make sulfuric acid, an essential chemical in the production of many fertilizers. A big decline in sulfur production would cause a big decline in fertilizer production. A big decline in fertilizer production would cause a big decline in food production that would make worse the food shortage crisis.
We must consider the dangerous world situation that could result if a change-over to free energy technology is not well managed. China would greatly benefit from widespread use of free energy technology, but Russia could be "put out of business" because of widespread use of free energy technology. Russia might even consider starting a war in order to prevent widespread use of free energy technology -- a war that could spread world-wide. The "have not nations" would view free energy technology as the road to economic equality with nations that have large amounts of coal and/or oil reserves. The "have not nations" would side with China, and Russia and her allies would be fighting nations that have most of the world population.
In Nikola Tesla's autobiography he wrote that we are confronted with portentous problems that can not be solved just by providing for our material existence, however abundantly. He wrote that progress in the direction of providing an abundant material existence is fraught with hazards and perils not less menacing than those born of want and suffering.
Nikola Tesla wrote (in the year 1919): "If we were to release the energy of atoms or discover some other way of developing cheap and unlimited power at any point on the globe, this accomplishment, instead of being a blessing, might bring disaster to mankind in giving rise to dissension and anarchy, that ultimately would result in the enthronement of the hated regime of force." The term "might" means about 30% probability. By using the term "might" instead of the term "may" (about 60% probability) or the term "probably" (about 90% probability), Nikola Tesla implied that there is about 70% probability that cheap and unlimited power will not bring disaster. If the transition to free energy technology is well managed, Larry McCart believes that cheap and unlimited power will not bring disaster.
Governments exploit vehicle fuel sales for a large portion of government revenue.
Vehicle Gas Prices and Taxes (First Quarter 2006)
Pre-tax cost of gas Money taken by government per unit of gas
Governments exploit property values of oil fields for a large portion of government revenue. In Kern County, California, there are a number major oil fields including the Kern River oil field. The official estimate for crude oil in the Kern River oil field is one billion barrels. For all oil fields in Kern County the official estimate for crude oil probably would be over five billion barrels. The top five oil companies in Kern County have property in Kern County with a tax base of about 20 billion dollars, and pay about 240 million dollars each year in property taxes.
unity2zero
Interesting fear factor.
Big Oil doesn't have anything to fear from a gravity device.
First off from my experience a gravity wheel of any use will have to be 6 foot tall or 6 foot wide or better and will not run fast enough in a car, not to mention wouldn't fit. But for home generating of electricity it will become of very good use and the electric co. will be able to build fields of large ones to help feed the masses of electronics, for it will be impractical for every house to have there own wheel. But they will become very valuable for emergency times to get electric to the people who need it until the repairs are made.
Alternative fuel and electric cars are the only enemy to the big oil, and I think the transition will take forever anyway. This gives big money time to juggle around and still capitalize on it. So in truth there may not be nothing to truly fear.
unity2zero
Dangers of Free Energy Technology
by Larry McCart
TOTAL FEAR MONGERING RUBBISH!!!!
People like McCart never look at the whole picture. They only look at a small fragment.
There are many other beneficial uses for oil. Carbon fiber for one.
McCart must also think Free Energy Machines will assemble themselves.
I think Free Energy will make hundreds of New Millionaires and employ more workers than Oil.
Think about all the things you could do with your money if you weren't spending it on Energy.
Bring it on.
;D
@Jason,
Bob has stated that he wasn't using an air compressor to run his machine. I am going to take his word for that and assume that the only additional force he is using is from the Centrifugal sling capture. Only testing will tell.
@AB Hammer,
You are right, big oil has nothing to fear, it will not work in a car, only home, power stations, maybe slow turning ships. Also, you made other very insightful comments.
@Racer426,
Very insightful.
Regards, Larry
Deleted
@unity2zero: Do you realize that this thread is about a specific design. It's not just a think pad for general thoughts.
If you want to bring up something new then why not just start a new thread?
Anyone heard from Bob Kostoff, lately? I'd really like to start replication.
Quote from: 4Tesla on October 12, 2008, 02:21:53 AM
Larry.. looks like you're getting close.. Would Bob be willing to draw detailed plans? It sure would be nice. I don't think Bob has his totally self powered as I think he also used an air compressor to help move the weights. That is fine if you can generate more power than the compressor uses.
Jason
Jason
I think you are right. Bob is using external compressed air as an enhancement for his gravity wheel. The vid photos of his wheel clearly shows an air cylinder on each end of the connected weights. If you check his website, this is what he had written:
"This new engine is the product of years of research, frustration and
perseverance. I found that using the perpetual motion approach limits
the amount of usable energy available. An internal combustion engine
can be enhanced and will produce more power by installing a turbo
charger. This unit will use some of the initial power produced by the
engine, but the end result is far greater. The same process is used
in this unit but because it uses Gravity rather than fuel, the enhancement
system is much different."
He is comparing his flywheel to an IC engine and its turbo charger as an enhancer. Likewise he is using compressed air from an external source to "charge" or enhance his gravity wheel. The big question is whether the wheel would give out enough energy to operate the compressor to give energy back to the gravity wheel. At best, this is an energy "tank circuit".
Cheers
Hi Unity,
Here is Bob's own words about using outside power for his unit:
"Hi Stephan. Just thought I would give you a little message and let you know I am back home again. I still go to therapy but things are comming along.
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table.
There are no hoses or airlines conected to it."
He has made other comments elsewhere that there is no external power for the machine.
He has stated the air cylinders are only used to cushion the impact of the shifting weights.
BTW, LarryC and myself have been collaborating on a design that we hope to present here in a week or two assuming we are successful.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on October 16, 2008, 08:11:47 AM
BTW, LarryC and myself have been collaborating on a design that we hope to present here in a week or two assuming we are successful.
Regards,
Charlie
Hi Charlie, good luck to you and LarryC. Hope you are successful, will wait to hear of your results.
Quote from: unity2zero on October 16, 2008, 02:08:44 AM
Jason
I think you are right. Bob is using external compressed air as an enhancement for his gravity wheel. The vid photos of his wheel clearly shows an air cylinder on each end of the connected weights. If you check his website, this is what he had written:
"This new engine is the product of years of research, frustration and
perseverance. I found that using the perpetual motion approach limits
the amount of usable energy available. An internal combustion engine
can be enhanced and will produce more power by installing a turbo
charger. This unit will use some of the initial power produced by the
engine, but the end result is far greater. The same process is used
in this unit but because it uses Gravity rather than fuel, the enhancement
system is much different."
He is comparing his flywheel to an IC engine and its turbo charger as an enhancer. Likewise he is using compressed air from an external source to "charge" or enhance his gravity wheel. The big question is whether the wheel would give out enough energy to operate the compressor to give energy back to the gravity wheel. At best, this is an energy "tank circuit".
Okay, that is one theory, here's another.
It is based on Bob's statement:
"Once the weights are past the ballance point they accelerate and
generate many times their weight that creats the the
energy needed. The faster rotation the larger the force. With out the springs and shock absorber it would destroy itself."
So when he stated:
"This unit will use some of the initial power produced by the engine, but the end result is
far greater. The same process is used in this unit but because it uses Gravity rather than fuel, the enhancement system is much different."
I believe he is talking about the springs capturing the CF sling force after the balance point and then releasing it at the beginning of the lift phase.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on October 16, 2008, 11:22:05 PM
Okay, that is one theory, here's another.
It is based on Bob's statement:
"Once the weights are past the ballance point they accelerate and generate many times their weight that creats the the energy needed. The faster rotation the larger the force. With out the springs and shock absorber it would destroy itself."
So when he stated:
"This unit will use some of the initial power produced by the engine, but the end result is far greater. The same process is used in this unit but because it uses Gravity rather than fuel, the enhancement system is much different."
I believe he is talking about the springs capturing the CF sling force after the balance point and then releasing it at the beginning of the lift phase.
Regards, Larry
Interesting point, sounds very logical.
Hello
Things develop quite well
Bob has started a new 1th page
In one or two month he will finnish his demomashine
seehttp://www.newsourceofenergy.com/ (http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/)
@all
Bob's new demo unit is suppose to be the start of his initial production units. Apparently he was successful in getting a local company to start producing them. I'm hopeful that his website will present clear photos or video of its operation.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: noonespecial on October 19, 2008, 08:31:41 PM
@all
Bob's new demo unit is suppose to be the start of his initial production units. Apparently he was successful in getting a local company to start producing them. I'm hopeful that his website will present clear photos or video of its operation.
Regards,
Charlie
Sounds great, let's hope for the best!
I am glad this quest for a real green solution will finall be over in a few short weeks.
Jon H.
From Bob's website:
"We are preparing for phase 1 of our project and are going to be offering a private showing of the first functioning gravity machine at a secure location later this year, we are asking that only serious investors apply to receive an invitation to come to this special public showing to investors only. This machine represents years of work and planning. This is the only true solution for living in a symbiotic relationship with each other, while helping all the energy needs the world requires at no expense to the environment. We will begin reviewing the applications the 15th of November."
Regards,
Charlie
Well, I guess this means this is not "free" energy. So much for open source.
Bill
Sounds great Bob
IF it works as described: you will never see it... Bob is acting like EVERY OTHER INVENTOR - is hiding his blueprints and hoping to get rich. If it works he will be silenced. I am trying to say over and over again: discovered something: go public. There are quite a few free energy discoveries or inventions WE HAVE YET TO SEE ONE PUBLIC!!
Dont you all familiar with old formula yet (its been proven 100%)? Here it is: inventor is hiding invention by hopes to be millionaire - inventor is supressed and silenced. Invention is lost for public....
Prove me wrong please!
People have to start thinking. :((
Quote from: minde4000 on November 03, 2008, 06:21:58 PM
IF it works as described: you will never see it... Bob is acting like EVERY OTHER INVENTOR - is hiding his blueprints and hoping to get rich. If it works he will be silenced. I am trying to say over and over again: discovered something: go public. There are quite a few free energy discoveries or inventions WE HAVE YET TO SEE ONE PUBLIC!!
Dont you all familiar with old formula yet (its been proven 100%)? Here it is: inventor is hiding invention by hopes to be millionaire - inventor is supressed and silenced. Invention is lost for public....
Prove me wrong please!
People have to start thinking. :((
You need to go read Open Source Vs Patenting and go to the end.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1821.0
Quote from: minde4000 on November 03, 2008, 06:21:58 PM
IF it works as described: you will never see it... Bob is acting like EVERY OTHER INVENTOR - is hiding his blueprints and hoping to get rich. If it works he will be silenced. I am trying to say over and over again: discovered something: go public. There are quite a few free energy discoveries or inventions WE HAVE YET TO SEE ONE PUBLIC!!
Dont you all familiar with old formula yet (its been proven 100%)? Here it is: inventor is hiding invention by hopes to be millionaire - inventor is supressed and silenced. Invention is lost for public....
Prove me wrong please!
Yes. I tend to agree with you. Every now and then, someone will come and whip up an “over unity†invention and make some fake video over the internet. “Over unity†enthusiasts will get hot up and thousands of posting generated. After a while, the curtain will draw close and everything died down once again. This is a typical “over-unity†invention cycle. :)
I also tend to agree with some of the comments made here but why don't we give Bob the benefit of the doubt.
If nothing materializes by the end of the year or so, we can just add his machine to the long list of other inventions that simply disappeared.
However, I don't think this will be the case.
Regards,
Charlie
I agree, give him the benefit of the doubt. He has been at this longer than anyone on the internet so far, he is making steady progress, if he was a fake he would be looking at ways to back out, a reputable newspaper did the interview and would of chewed him up if it were fake. He will place more on his web site soon just be patient. This is not like winning at bingo. The implications will be felt world wide and the phases have to be done in a methodical order. Lets be patient with him. For those thinking it is a faked video, I dare you to put up a web page and video, be sure to mention your name and town you live in....risk it all then do nothing and see what happens to your name afterward, not to mention your respect in the community and retirement. He has risked way to much.....so at this point he is either a liar, lunatic, or has really done it. Just be patient and wait and see.
JJH
Bob's Home page states;
This engine is a self sustaining gravity powered unit. It produces all the
energy needed to run a generator large enough to provide power for
all the hydro and heat needed for your home. This Patent Pending system
If a Patent is pending then he has legal rights wrapped up! doe anyone have the patent pending application No.?
Ralph Lortie
I think this a really exciting opportunity. I worked for the red cross in South America in the late 90's and an invention like this would help third world countries immensely.
Let's keep our hopes up and our thoughts positive.
@All,
Just wanted to pass on some attempts and new challenges.
The Cam picture shows my combo cam/act arm on the base of the unit as previously shown in the test bed.
The Cam follower and lift lever shows the new levers to follow the cam and move the weight boxes.
The Cheap wood splitter is what happens when you use pine in the wrong grain direction due to trash pile wood availability. After this I switched to plywood after Charlie scolding me ;D
After these challenges I noticed that a separate Cam and Act arm had more rotation. So you can see the Act arm on right side of the unit in the Front of unit pic. At this point the combo cam has been cut short so that it only does the first 4" of lift on the weight boxes.
The Momentum box on back at the edge of the unit is where I can add 1 to 4 lbs of weight slug if needed.
The Roller on actuator arm is a close up of the actuator arm. It is connected to a hinge with a piece of shock absorbing material underneath. The area below that keeps the unit at full height from 12:20 to 2:30.
The Roller on aluminum cladding of cam shows where I added an aluminum cladding to the cam because the rollers were indenting the hard wood cam surface.
I have been doing testing with the Irwin clamp and bungee cords preloaded per Bob statement. My challenge is that the release of the clamps shoots the rollers out of sync and causes a arm to cam or act arm slam when starting with a slight push per Bob.
If I give it a firm push there is not a slam but can only get thru a little short of two power lift cycles.
Regards, Larry
@ Larry:
Nice job there. That is obviously a lot of work you have put into that. The construction looks excellent. I hope you can get it to work.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 05, 2008, 11:46:34 AM
@ Larry:
Nice job there. That is obviously a lot of work you have put into that. The construction looks excellent. I hope you can get it to work.
Bill
Thanks, Bill. This is the first unit that has held together and runs smoothly. It has many of the specifications that Bob mentioned. A cam and actuator arm. A lifting lever that is 2.5 inch to center and 10 pass. And the levers come around the center to lift the weight boxes.
I have been trying many variables of weights in the boxes and in the momentum storage area and various bungee strengths. But haven't found the right combo to get it to accelerate. The bungee saved energy does reduce the loss of rpm as the first 4 inch of lift occurs. However, it does not add any rotation speed increase and I think that is whats needed to get to the minimum rpm that will maintain the CF sling capture and rotation. On my unit with both bungees loaded the first pass is fine, but the second gets hung up at the end while trying to reload the first bungee.
When I first started this project, I stated that I hoped the air shocks in the center were not needed as I didn't have the equipment to create that setup.
I realized today that the captured energy in the cylinder from the air shocks could also be released at the appropriate point to speed up the rotation to maintain the CF slams. There seems to be much more plumbing then needed in Bob's machine, just to be for CF slam absorption.
So, I still believe that Bob's unit works, but mine will not work unless I can add a similar speed up mechanism. Not sure how, but will think about it and any help would be appreciated. Especially from silent Bob.
Regards, Larry
The new info sounds great Bob!
Can't wait for the new build to be finished so the engineers can start their review. It wont be long now.
JJH
I am new here but I feel as though I know many of you well, having read till my eyes blurred. Bessler said something to the effect; "...taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will be possible to find a valid description of motion." but motion may not be the best translation, perhaps movement as in the movement of a clock.
I believe that Bessler's movement has been right in front of our eyes for 300 years and no one until perhaps me, saw it for what it was. What I have to say will give credence to Bob's design and lend a great deal of insight into what I preceive to be the most logical explanation. I like the idea of open source but remember where this comes from... Bessler himself.
In the following illustration of Bessler's, note the stampmill on the extreme left. This was not placed in this illustration to denote that his wheel was capable of doing work. This is the internal mechanism of the machine. A close examination will show that the lifters on the shaft of the stampmill are not the cam shaped lifters and shaft collars of a traditional stampmill. Bessler's illustration shows what appears to be two blocks that come into blunt contact essentially smacking the shaft off the 5:00 position and then lifting it towards the center where centrifugal force carries it to 12:00. This is what set Bessler's wheel apart from all other overbalanced wheels. He was only lifting one weight at a time and he began the initial and most difficult portion of the lift (the first several inches) with an impact.
Though it flies in the face of what has been said about the gentle starting of Bessler's wheel, it occurs to me that the rope around the axel going out the window to the palat of bricks was not a demonstration of potential work either but rather the only means Bessler had of getting his wheel up to sufficient speed to have adequate centrifugal force to carry the shaft from where it was thrown to just past neutral to where it could be flung to it's outer stops on the opposing side. In short it is possible that the rope was a starter cord. I'm sticking to the stamp mill mechanism but I'm not married to the starting cord.
My hypothesis is further based on Bessler's four and six rod drawings in which two opposing weights were placed on the ends of push rods or shafts that went through or just beside the axis. I believe Bessler's shafts were square though the weights may have been cylendrical.
Bessler undoubtedly utilized some manner of shock absorbing spring to cushion the rods furthest throw as Bob has done. I do not believe that a catch mechanism was necessary and I do not believe Bob said that he used one
Does anyone else see this as a possibility. I am convinced of it.
I always wondered why the rope was wrapped around the axle going in the wrong direction for the heavy stamps to drop.
JJH
Quote from: unbalanced on November 11, 2008, 02:46:46 AM
I am new here but I feel as though I know many of you well, having read till my eyes blurred. Bessler said something to the effect; "...taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will be possible to find a valid description of motion." but motion may not be the best translation, perhaps movement as in the movement of a clock.
I believe that Bessler's movement has been right in front of our eyes for 300 years and no one until perhaps me, saw it for what it was. What I have to say will give credence to Bob's design and lend a great deal of insight into what I preceive to be the most logical explanation. I like the idea of open source but remember where this comes from... Bessler himself.
In the following illustration of Bessler's, note the stampmill on the extreme left. This was not placed in this illustration to denote that his wheel was capable of doing work. This is the internal mechanism of the machine. A close examination will show that the lifters on the shaft of the stampmill are not the cam shaped lifters and shaft collars of a traditional stampmill. Bessler's illustration shows what appears to be two blocks that come into blunt contact essentially smacking the shaft off the 5:00 position and then lifting it towards the center where centrifugal force carries it to 12:00. This is what set Bessler's wheel apart from all other overbalanced wheels. He was only lifting one weight at a time and he began the initial and most difficult portion of the lift (the first several inches) with an impact.
Though it flies in the face of what has been said about the gentle starting of Bessler's wheel, it occurs to me that the rope around the axel going out the window to the palat of bricks was not a demonstration of potential work either but rather the only means Bessler had of getting his wheel up to sufficient speed to have adequate centrifugal force to carry the shaft from where it was thrown to just past neutral to where it could be flung to it's outer stops on the opposing side. In short it is possible that the rope was a starter cord. I'm sticking to the stamp mill mechanism but I'm not married to the starting cord.
My hypothesis is further based on Bessler's four and six rod drawings in which two opposing weights were placed on the ends of push rods or shafts that went through or just beside the axis. I believe Bessler's shafts were square though the weights may have been cylendrical.
Bessler undoubtedly utilized some manner of shock absorbing spring to cushion the rods furthest throw as Bob has done. I do not believe that a catch mechanism was necessary and I do not believe Bob said that he used one
Does anyone else see this as a possibility. I am convinced of it.
ok cool, welcome to overunity.com
now lets build this thing and see if it actually works? :)
Hello to Everyone, I would like to be the first to admit that a portion of what I had written in my previous post is untrue or rather unworkable. I stick to my conviction that the rods were moved from 5:00 to 12:00 by means of the workings of a stamp mill but cams and collars were used. The cams in Bessler's wheel were connected to an inner shaft that was independant of the wheel but connected to the pendulum. In this manner the pendulum not only regulated the the speed of the wheel by determining at what angle or time each rod would be lifted (if the wheel is going too fast the rod would meet the cam at 4:00 instead of 5:00 etc) but I surmise that the pendulum initially added the extra power needed to lift a rod ( at lower rpm) by turning the cam in the opposite direction of the on-coming rod. This again lends more credence to Bob's design which uses a lifting cam. In Bessler's wheel the collar on the lifting rod rode up the cam as the wheel turned but at the same time the cam was being turned or forced under the collar by the pendulum. Once the wheel had gained inertia the pendulum could be haulted in the virtical.
When Bessler wanted to slow or stop his wheel he needed only to rotate this cam so that the weights began ascending while outboard. Bob's device would benefit by this moving cam arrangement rather than using a disk brake to regulate speed.
If nothing else this theory of mine would add the additional inertia (that of the independant pendulum helping to lift the rods) which is wanting to bring Bessler's wheel into line with the laws of physics.
In the following illustration it seems clear that these push rods or shafts went through drum/axel. I feel certain that the cam shaft that was connected to the pendulum went through all of the rods that were cut out (with long ovals) so as to move around the shaft and still be able to travel up and down.
Sorry about the newby move of posting too large of a picture. I'll try again
Bottom line with all of these ideas is that no matter what path you take in moving masses from point a ....z it is all about gravity and if you move an object from one potential energy state to another it will always take the same if not more energy including friction and other losses to return it in a closed system.
Cheers,
Dean
Quote from: dean_mcgowan on November 11, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Bottom line with all of these ideas is that no matter what path you take in moving masses from point a ....z it is all about gravity and if you move an object from one potential energy state to another it will always take the same if not more energy including friction and other losses to return it in a closed system.
Cheers,
Dean
It is nice an encouraging that this topic becomes hot up and rejuvenated again. Hoping that these discussions would lead to something productive, practical and worthwhile or at least to continue for a long time for the sake of excitement. Hoping it will not die off soon like all other free energy devices discussed in similar fashion. Bob is holding the Nightingale's Light :)
I have to concede to your point Dean but I counter with three points. (1) that Bessler's wheel was unique from all the previous designs of mass shifting over-balance wheels in that his wheel alone utilized the potential created by five decending weights to lift only one weight at a time vs several or half of them and (2) he utilized, at least in starting up his wheel, a pendulum that provided external force to aid in the lifting of the individual weights. (3) Bessler's design only needed to lift each weight a small distance beyond the neautral point where in centrifugal force carried the weight the remainder of the distance.
If there exists, even the remostest possibility that Bessler's was a workable design then it would be incredibly remiss of all who take an interest in such folly not to pursue this endeavor to its extremes. A successful wheel of this nature is exactly what the world needs right now on just about every level I can think of.
Quote from: unbalanced on November 11, 2008, 05:41:29 AM
I have to concede to your point Dean but I counter with three points. (1) that Bessler's wheel was unique from all the previous designs of mass shifting over-balance wheels in that his wheel alone utilized the potential created by five decending weights to lift only one weight at a time vs several or half of them and (2) he utilized, at least in starting up his wheel, a pendulum that provided external force to aid in the lifting of the individual weights. (3) Bessler's design only needed to lift each weight a small distance beyond the neautral point where in centrifugal force carried the weight the remainder of the distance.
If there exists, even the remostest possibility that Bessler's was a workable design then it would be incredibly remiss of all who take an interest in such folly not to pursue this endeavor to its extremes. A successful wheel of this nature is exactly what the world needs right now on just about every level I can think of.
Unbalanced,
Point one only disguises the fact in complexity
Point two describes an addition of energy through an external source - ie a pendulum does nothing without a force acting on it
Point three see point one
I agree with you however that even if there is the remotest chance it should be pursued, however basic laws apply and thats why you and I are even here
to discuss such things.
Cheers,
Dean
I don't put a great deal of faith in any proposition that contains more than one "if" but for the sake of furthering this discussion let us assume for the moment that the input of the pendulum's influence to help in lifting one push rod with two opposing weights was only necessary during the accelleration stage of the wheel;
Visualize a six-push-rod-wheel in stasis. One push rod would be anywhere between 5:00 and 6:00. Now lift the pendulum and let it go. As the pendulum swings the cam shaft, running through the axis, it will swing its cam back and forth under the collar of only one push rod. With the wheel stationary one push rod will ascend and descend with each swing of the pendulum. This scenario assumes that the cam is egg-shaped like a valve lifter in an internal combustion engine. This egg shaped cam would allow the wheel to rotate in either direction. This egg shaped cam will retrieve a portion of the pendulum's momentum as its apex passes the collar and rides down the opposing side of the cam.
This scenario is indeed robbing the pendulum of momentum with every swing but it may be that this added impetus was only essential until 50 RPM was achieved by the wheel at which point the kenetic energy of the wheel was sufficient to do all the lifting.
If there is truth in this last statement, then the rope pictured as wrapped around the axle
extending to the weight out the window as a starter cord, would negate the need of the pendulum as a device that was only necessary during the starting process and relegate it to the purpose of regulating the speed of the wheel only.
Further to the discussion of the air pistons as a means of cushioning the blows of the weights and delivering some of this energy to help the initial lift of the next weight in line to be lifted, in Bessler's and Bob's wheel:
The forces would be such that the use of hydraulic hoses to connect these two rams would be essential, hense the appearance of these hoses in Bob's wheel.
It would not be a stretch to assume that Bessler used a similar system. A close look at Bessler's illustration of his stamp mill, shows that each rod drops into a declevity. If the tolerances of these declevities in relation to the piston / weights were quite close, then the impact of one weight (at the 12:00) could feasibly have aided in initiating the rise of another weight (at the 5:00) by means of a pipe or simililar enclosure.
For Larry C:
I love the ingenuity of your design and your use of readily available bearings and other materials.
I would like to add, with all due humility, that I believe your design may be improved upon in the following aspects:
A. That the efficiency of your design may be improved upon by the elimination of the articulating arms that carry your weights back and forth. I believe that it is not necessary to move the weights as far as you are moving them. If you are able to lift the weights just past the neutral position, centrifugal force will carry them to their stops. I do not believe that a total travel of more than two to six inches is necessary.
B. The efficiency of your design may be improved upon by using only one push rod that extends through the axle like Bessler suggests, with a weight on either end. This affords less moving parts, less friction, less probability of failure.
C. The utility of your design may be improved upon if you change the shape and manner of attaching your lifting cam to that of a symmetrical egg shape (elliptic) and make it so that it can be advanced and retarded (moveable about its axis by 15-30 degrees) so that your wheel would be able to rotate in either direction and so that it can be used as a throttle. If your weights needed to be lifted a lesser distance, your cam could be considerably smaller, lessening considerably the resistance your device will face in lifting the weights.
D. A design that incorporates five weights lifting one weight (as Bessler seems to do) could be essential.
E. Incorporating a closed system of transferring the force of impact of one weight into the initial lift of the next in line may be hugely advantageous.
I hope that you take these suggestions is the light that they are offered i.e. I wish only to colaborate with my fellow O/U enthusiast for the ultimate goal of our mutual success.
Keep up the great work and expect photos of my own prototype soon.
@Unbalanced
Wellcome to OU and looking forward to results from another builder.
love the ingenuity of your design and your use of readily available bearings and other materials.
Thanks, but it is an attempt at Bob K.'s design. And I always strive for the cheapest and most efficient solution.
I would like to add, with all due humility, that I believe your design may be improved upon in the following aspects:
Great, appreciate any help.
A. That the efficiency of your design may be improved upon by the elimination of the articulating arms that carry your weights back and forth. I believe that it is not necessary to move the weights as far as you are moving them. If you are able to lift the weights just past the neutral position, centrifugal force will carry them to their stops. I do not believe that a total travel of more than two to six inches is necessary.
Actually, my unit has a 21.50" movement on each side of the center. So it requires a 10.75" +1" movement to get to the point where centrifugal force will sling them outward. The lift is slowly continued beyond that point but it should not be used if the CF slam occurs. It is just there to support the weights at 1:30 during initial release. It also stops the dreaded distruction of the rollers in a unwanted bounce back.
B. The efficiency of your design may be improved upon by using only one push rod that extends through the axle like Bessler suggests, with a weight on either end. This affords less moving parts, less friction, less probability of failure.
Basically thats what I have, weight boxes on each end connected by rods on each side for proper balance. I did have a simpler one track system earlier but the side forces ripped it apart. Allthough, I do agree a more robust system could be built with the proper equipment and resources.
C. The utility of your design may be improved upon if you change the shape and manner of attaching your lifting cam to that of a symmetrical egg shape (elliptic) and make it so that it can be advanced and retarded (moveable about its axis by 15-30 degrees) so that your wheel would be able to rotate in either direction and so that it can be used as a throttle. If your weights needed to be lifted a lesser distance, your cam could be considerably smaller, lessening considerably the resistance your device will face in lifting the weights.
The cam is not a symmetrical egg shape because only the top side is used for lift as required by the device. The bottom is shaped as such to allow for the return of the other arm at CF slam.
A adjustable cam position would be nice, but I don't know how to do that easily with my current setup. I just check out the results on the bench to get the position correct for the desired goal.
The current lift distance is required. Also, I have no means of making a small hard metal cam. Cutting out of hardwood and adding aluminum cladding is easier and more flexible in my case.
D. A design that incorporates five weights lifting one weight (as Bessler seems to do) could be essential.
Agreed, that would be better, but Bob did it with a one arm bandit, why can't we?
E. Incorporating a closed system of transferring the force of impact of one weight into the initial lift of the next in line may be hugely advantageous.
The closed system is the irwing clamps with the bungee cords which lock and save the energy from the CF slam. The irwing clamps are released at 3:30 and assist in the initial lift. In fact if the unit is going to slow, the force will throw the weight boxes completely across and throw the lifting out of sync.
I hope that you take these suggestions is the light that they are offered i.e. I wish only to colaborate with my fellow O/U enthusiast for the ultimate goal of our mutual success.
Appreciate your positive input.
Keep up the great work and expect photos of my own prototype soon.
Looking forward to your prototype photos.
Regards, Larry
Appreciate the response Larry, an inexpensive and effective material I have found for the construction of cams when metal fabrication is not an option is to find a source for those small white polyfin cutting boards you may see in many stores. This is a polymer akin to polyethylene that has very little friction, is durable and easily worked with wood working tools. I buy them for a a couple of bucks a pot here in Bend, Or.
My very best to you,
Quote from: rlortie on November 04, 2008, 03:13:23 PM
Bob's Home page states;
This engine is a self sustaining gravity powered unit. It produces all the
energy needed to run a generator large enough to provide power for
all the hydro and heat needed for your home. This Patent Pending system
If a Patent is pending then he has legal rights wrapped up! doe anyone have the patent pending application No.?
Ralph Lortie
???
The american government shelves the patent for 18 months before it is processes........hummmm
If you invested over $200000+ over 6 years, would you say "here this is for you guys...Have a goog time"
I don't think so.
Regards.......Bob
Bob,
If you invested over $200000+ over 6 years, would you say "here this is for you guys...Have a goog time"
No I do not think so either, I would not just hand it out! But then again knowing that no one could build it for commercial purpose or reap any royalties from it. I would consider going public for investors and manufacturers to be made aware.
First off, I wish to make it clear that I am on your side all the way. I also have many years and expense wrapped up this merry chase. A little over 50 years to be explicit and I have not bothered to keep track of expenses as I am sure it would blow my mind. I have well over $100,000.00 wrapped up in tooling and shop facilities alone.
I understand the shelving process of patent applications. I am under the understanding that if a patent is applied for by certified mail and a return receipt requested, that application becomes valid once it is postmarked (dated) by the Postmaster. You have then locked in your 'prior arts' and can feel free to exploit or market the invention with full protection pending an issuance of an official patent Number.
I am sure that in your life time you have picked up something that had "Patent Pending" stamped on it. this is the same as having a patent as you have applied for it using the proper procedures.
If I were in your position and had my receipt of application received. I would be shouting it from the rooftops and getting all the publicity I could before the examiner had a chance to refuse it. Even then if refused the concept is still protected and gaining in public knowledge. In the meantime you make an appeal, which would probably require you to present them with a small working model. My favorite example for this is the Howard Johnson magnetic motor which was denied and finally granted via the PTO Appeals appellate. True, it took him three years to clear the hurdles, but it did not stop him from moving forward with his design in the meantime. Which by the way does not work, but a lot of magnets got sold!
Keep in mind that the only loss you can measure is the very few who have the empirical skills and resources to build the machine for their own domestic use, this will happen with or without a patent. Something I believe you will agree is quite limited compared to those who would like to see the benefits of your machine put to use on a world wide scale.
I am not a lawyer nor a patent Agent, but as I understand the process there is no reason you could not be making the most of your machine. If it is determined as falling under the 'Perpetual Motion' clause and you already have the public aware of the benefits it provides, it would make it difficult to deny your patent request.
I am involved with your concept much more than what you see from this forum thread. My indulgence is by confidential mail with a limited number of parties attempting to duplicate and or verify your machine and videos of its operation.
If any patent wise forum member wishes to dispute or correct me on my above statements, please do so with all haste. I do not wish to lead anyone down a false path!
Thank you and Regards,
Ralph Lortie Stanfield Oregon USA
@Bob,
The American government shelves the patent for 18 months before it is processes........hummmm
First, I am glad that you are well. But, an addition to Ralph comments. Why worry about the USA, when you have the Patent Cooperation Treaty on your side, due to your Canadian patent? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_Cooperation_Treaty.
@Ralph,
I am involved with your concept much more than what you see from this forum thread. My indulgence is by confidential mail with a limited number of parties attempting to duplicate and or verify your machine and videos of its operation.
Very glad to see that you are interested in Bob's design. It certainly gives me and others an added incentive in attempting to replicate knowing that you are interested and actively attempting to recreate Bob's machine. What I don't understand is why you are not sharing your accomplishments or challenges with this forum, as all would benefit.
@unbalanced,
Thanks for the poly board tip.
Regards, Larry
I can not see this working because if it could, then a magnetic set up based on the same principle would work too. Gravity acts just as a magnet does. They both have a equal draw to the center.
@LarryC
Very glad to see that you are interested in Bob's design. It certainly gives me and others an added incentive in attempting to replicate knowing that you are interested and actively attempting to recreate Bob's machine. What I don't understand is why you are not sharing your accomplishments or challenges with this forum, as all would benefit.
Larry, your statement is composed well and to the point; Working with others by confidential mail limits my availability to discuss it on an open forum without all participants acknowledging and giving permission to do so. If you know me or are aware of the roll I play in this ongoing game then you know that my reputation and integrity are my highest priorities. I do a lot of confidential skunk works research for clients who wish to remain nameless. It is my sworn oath to honor those wishes.
To clear the air a little farther, apparently I have lead you to believe that I am actively attempting to recreate Bobs design. This is not quite true. I am working in collaboration with those attempting to duplicate. My chosen path is to research the principle that the concept allegedly uses for motive power as I understand it, and I am not sure that I do understand it.
I am not nor will I attempt a duplicate build without full knowledge and verification. I am with reasonable doubt that the design is viable without an outside force such as hydraulics or compressed air. My current research is aimed at seeing if if can be accomplished by mechanical leverage transference. The original idea behind this is not mine and therefore can say no more.
What I can talk about is that I am very apprehensive of using hydraulics in any reciprocating weight type concept. The inertial loss of changing direction of hydraulic fluid in such a contained environment for a gravity wheel is going to be very hard to over come. There are ways to reduce the osculating time sequence, but that is a different story and does not apply well on Bobs machine.
I wish you luck with your cam and lever concept, but to my thinking the end result is no different than having a stationary ramp in the lower left quadrant for a clockwise rotation, the drag and friction loss will be equivalent. Part of this you have already experienced by having to put a metal band on your cam.
I hope you can prove me wrong!
Ralph Lortie.
Greetings All
I am glad to see Bob is well and all is going forward.
LarryC
Ralph (rlortie) is the one person I fully trust in this game. He will give you his full honest openion. It is up to you to take his advice or try to prove him wrong, and the latter is not easy. LOL He has a reputation from many of being trustworthy . I have shown him several of my designs and of course there have been a few giggles about some of them for good reason. But there are others that we mince thoughts about and as well happy to work with him on. Sucess is bigger than all of us, so when you find people you can trust. I suggest you stick with them.
So it always boils down to how much money can you make...simply called: greed.
God I'm seriously about to give up in this area, some people are truly hopeless. This world doesn't deserve any saving it deserves to rot.
Good day Broli,
I believe he was referring to "success" as in creating a successful devise not necessarily
monetary success.
All the best, Unbalanced
This last exchange really hits at the fundamentals of the pursuit of this devise, life and the universe as a whole. It has to either Profit or Die. Even breaking even will kill it or make it useless. We have to make the devise "profit" create more energy than it consumes. This is the most fundamental law we have to design and engineer by. There is nothing politically incorrect about making a profit. It is essential to all life, it is essential to the concept of a successful PMM. Entropy is our enemy.
Keep the faith, Yours exceedingly, Unbalanced
Their is no reason why anyone such as Bob or I that have invested many years and finances on the pursuit of a working design should not be justifiably compensated for our efforts. After all we are trying to re-invent the wheel, and I do not think there is much doubt about the significance the wheel has made to humanity.
Most do not realize the monetary value of such a device. If the inventor manages the marketing and does not sell out to the money mongers he can be the largest philanthropist this planet has ever seen. In reality he could buy and sell Bill Gates many time over and still give units to third world countries or who ever he chooses.
I work on a contingency basis, clients send me an idea for my analysis. If I find it either looking viable or questionable I consider building it at no cost to the submitter. They often ask me if successful how much percentage I would expect. I tell them that if successful and managed as per my suggested marketing scheme, I would not quibble over a few hundred thousand dollars one way or the other. They simply cannot grasp the monetary value.
Howard Hughes was once considered one of the richest man in the world, his legacy and founding companies are still valued in the Billions. The management strategy that got him there was not of his making but that of his father, who formed Hughes Tool and Die company. Inventor of the well drilling bit used to this day.
Nikola Tesla although revered by many, is an example of how not to manage a patent of such importance. Tesla sold his patents for 3 phase 60 cycle AC and signed a disclosure to George Westinghouse. Tesla died of heart failure alone in room 3327 of the New Yorker Hotel, some time between the evening of 5 January and the morning of 8 January 1943, at the age of 86. Despite having sold his AC electricity patents, Tesla was destitute and died with significant debts. It is alleged by many that the State of New York paid for his cremation. We all know what happened to George Westinghouse and how the Westinghouse Corporation influences our lives to this day! You cannot turn on the TV, a light bulb or wash clothes without Westinghouse staring you in the face in one form or another.
Bessler was a very intellectual shrewd person. He had the forethought to know that if he simply gave his invention to society it would not be appreciated as much if earned. Knowing full well that it would end up under control of the same type people we send money to every month for our power usage. Power companies are now charging more for "green earth renewable energy than for Hydro, nuclear and fossil fueled energy. They do not consider Hydro power "renewable" simply because it does not meet the criteria of their master plan to bilk you of more money. What do you think they would classify self-sustaining gravity generated energy as? Do you think it would cost less, if so "Happy dreaming'...
And on a side note: I heat with natural gas, my cost per thermal unit increased 41% in one month! Sound physics tell me that if I had a gravity driven device that required a governor, I could heat my house with the surplus heat said governor would create. Positive displacement governors are not that hard to make and would be ideal for controlling the speed of a generator to match your local grid power cycle, with the benefit of an extractable heat source.
Ralph Lortie
I don't think it's smart to make a post right now since I'm so pissed off at what you just said ralph but I'll try and stay calm.
Money was never made or invented to be used in the amounts it's being used today. The ONLY reason it's being used with quantities this high is abuse. So a few can benefit from the masses. That's the only reason. I don't care what you think. But maybe you need to start seeing the world as a living entity rather than something materialistic where only you need to survive.
We are here to help each other. Together we can do the impossible. The moment you start introducing profit you corrupt the mind. Why can't you understand this simple fact. Sorry but you're not one hair different from the people that first of all brought us in this mess and want to keep us in it or second of all the skeptical sheep that run around shouting crackpot at everyone that thinks differently than them.
Open your eyes forget about money. Do everything you can to change the world. Open source your projects spread the word, build them for your neighbors teach others. Stop putting Inc. behind every idea for crying out loud.
Before you know it it spreads like the plague people will start opening their eyes to the truth of things. They will start doing things their own way. Energy companies will collapse, food companies will collapse economies will collapse, everything as we know it today will be gone. Just because of en idea spread by a group.
People everywhere on the world will be able to grow their own food in the quantities to survive. People will start purifying their own water in the amount they need. All Independence from some super corporate system.
The fat rich cats had their chance. They could have poured all their money in research and development for the good of mankind. Instead they were scheming on how to increase the profit margin even more selling the products of yesterday. Let's see what all those zero's on theur bank account will mean when everything is worth shit.
I'm still young so I'm going to work hard to shape this world into something good than more of the same crap. A technology driven society would be capable of mind boggling things. Rather than worrying about whether you can pay the rent this month or buy enough food to survive.
This is what really pisses me off. People on here that are after free energy which is the most revolutionary thing you can think of but not realizing it.
Please open your eyes people forget about profit completely, attract people that support you and work together. Free energy is not something you do in your free time as a hobby, it's something you do to change the world you live in. If you can't realize this then you're better of fishing.
NASA approached their geobioligists with the question, How will we know when we have found life on another planet?
They put their heads together and came up with this sentence:
"We will have found life when we find something that has processes running in the opposite direction of entropy."
Oddly enough, this is how this community will know when they have found the secret to propetual motion. It will have processes running in the opposite direction of entropy.
It's alive! It alive!
Broli Broli Broli
What can a person with no money do to change the world? Now what can a person who has allot of money to do to change the world? It is what you do when you have money for to make progress you will have to fight people with money there for I would rather go to that fight armed not unarmed.
Can you eat money? Can you drink money? It can probably warm you up if you burn the bills.
Free energy + hydroponics growing systems + water ionzer = life
Maybe that simple equation can run through your guys profit filled skulls.
.
broli, we are all greedy and if we weren’t, we wouldn't be here looking for easier and cheaper ways to get something we do not need for our own survival. All we need is food, water and shelter for our own survival, everything else are wants and when you want for what you do not need is greed.
Remember that next time you get upset about someone wanting to profit from something that we do not need. Also keep in mind that we can build what ever we want for our selves as long as we do not sell it and therefore if they do have a design that does as they state it does, we can copy it and use it for ourselves. The other good thing about it is that a magnet works like gravity and therefore other designs and variations could be invented from using the same principle and released as open source. ;)
Let us collaborate in designing a mechanism that will have its center of gravity perpetually positioned to one side of its axis of rotation.
United, we may discover new means to lift each other’s weights, so as to avoid a mutual state of punctum quietus.
Sincerely, Unbalanced
I can not see how this can work with all the work that has to be done without there being enough work performed to do the work needed to over come gravity not including the centrifugal force that will take work to alter. Then you throw shocks in the mix and that adds even more work that has to be done.
Where is all the work coming from to do all this work?
Quote from: broli on November 15, 2008, 05:51:17 PM
Can you eat money? Can you drink money? It can probably warm you up if you burn the bills.
Free energy + hydroponics growing systems + water ionzer = life
Maybe that simple equation can run through your guys profit filled skulls.
As a poor man you may be able to feed your family, but no one else. And you work and serve the rich man who gives you pennies on the dollar for the work you do for him.
As a rich man who is not selfish can feed many and supply the tools, equipment, and Jobs to feed many more.
The rich and selfish are those who hordes and takes from the poor man.
But the rich and non selfish are those who build and works toward improving all they can.
The rich and selfish would not be helping and talking on this forum unless to talk people into open sourcing, so they can manufacture and control what the person who gave it away and maybe be good enough to give them a job to pick there brain for more information so they can stay up front of their competition.
Welcome to the real world.
Quote from: nightlife on November 15, 2008, 08:06:28 PM
I can not see how this can work with all the work that has to be done without there being enough work performed to do the work needed to over come gravity not including the centrifugal force that will take work to alter. Then you throw shocks in the mix and that adds even more work that has to be done.
Where is all the work coming from to do all this work?
mv
2/r
noonespecial, mv2/r is the centrifugal force which takes work to create but you can not have a rotational movement without creating a equal centrifugal force at all outer points. It sounds like I need to do some more thinking about this.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Bill wrote: Well, I guess this means this is not "free" energy. So much for open source.
Broli wrote; Open your eyes forget about money. Do everything you can to change the world. Open source your projects spread the word, build them for your neighbors teach others. Stop putting Inc. behind every idea for crying out loud.
Your were correct Broli, that was a bad time to be posting!
I do not understand some people and what the hell they mean by "Open source"????
Everything on this and any other forum is open source, Every patent application and patent that you can pull up from any related web page is open source. Bobs machine will be open sourced once a patent application number is released. It does not matter whether it works or not, you will have access to it. In fact you can start building now with what information you can gleam from this thread. In the meantime it is nothing more than another hyped up attempt for a machine that like so many before, is not verified to work (to my knowledge). How much open source do you require to satisfy your comments for more open sourcing?
If I apply for a patent then you will have your open sourcing to it also, in the meantime I have nothing to open or free source other than ventilating my feelings about being told I should open source and forget the money. Well I have news for you, when and if I find it you will know about it. Just do not expect me to deliver a unit to you post paid.
This continuing cry for "open source" is getting monotonous, What do you expect open sourcing to be and what do you expect it to provide you with that is not already available.
This whole issue reminds me of the story about a man who puts an ad in a newspaper stating he has free firewood to give away. The only callers want to know if he delivers splits and stacks it in their back yard or on the porch!
Why am I being chastised for not open sourcing? What do you expect, Should I invent the machine, build and deliver to you and your neighbors house and connect them for you, then maintain it at absolutely no cost to you? Will you be home when I show up or will you be standing in the welfare line to pickup your food stamps and rent subsidy check? After all money means nothing to you except to burn for heat!
You have the opportunity to build any machine design of your choice whether it be posted here or pulled up from various patent web sites, what more do you want to consider it open sourcing?
I am quite sure that over the years a lot of members on all O-U related forums have not open sourced their pitfalls and failures and why should they if they are of no value. The whole idea of a forum like this is to advise someone attempting to make the mistake you already made. Is that not open sourcing? I for one am not interested in looking at page after page of non-runners. I have enough of my own thank you!
@ Alan
The rich and selfish would not be helping and talking on this forum unless to talk people into open sourcing, so they can manufacture and control what the person who gave it away and maybe be good enough to give them a job to pick there brain for more information so they can stay up front of their competition.
I am proud to hear you make this statement. How do you get control, you let someone else give it to you which is exactly what some members are asking to be done. It is feasible that they are the rich and selfish.
If you wish to keep it from the rich and selfish you do not open source it until you have that application number in your hot little hands! Then all who are not to lazy to do so can build one. The rich and selfish can build their own also, but they cannot contain or commercialize it. I pointed that out when I posted about Tesla selling out to Westinghouse and then being offered a job. A Wikipedia search of either man will verify this.
I apologize for my rambling, thank you for being patient, I feel better now!
Ralph Lortie
Yes Ralph any time now, what was it 40+ years on the quest for PM? Just don't feel bad when a young group beats you to it with a completely different (read no) bussiness plan.
You guys don't make FUCKING sense. All of you talk the same garbage of "poor me that worked and spent so much money on it, deserve it back". Yet you guys don't look at each other and say "oh we actually have common goals and beliefs why don't we share out work and work together." Instead you use cryptic talk to hint at your projects that will only work in the 10th dimension.
Oh and Ralph maybe you need a bit more reading into "Open Source" licenses before trying to sound poetic because it's obvious you don't know shit what you're talking about.
@broli
Where are your designs posted?
What have you added except a passing opinion and cry for open sourcing?
Nobody has the wright to own nothing?
It must be free for all?
Who will be in control of progress if there is no gain?
Where will be the desire if there is no gain?
Who will pay for the research?
All and all broli, IMO you are a part of corporate, a socialist, or you are living in a dream world. Either way, WAKE UP!! and look around you, and see true reality.
Ab, it's oke your brainwashed mind cant comprehend it I understand. You can do things your own way but don't come crying when you start living on the street holding "Will make bessler wheels for Food.". Because surely that's your reality, rich or poor.
Patenting may not always be the right solution. It is advisable to weigh up the costs and the benefits of patent protection carefully, prior to initiating the process. You will therefore need to understand what might happen if your business decides not to patent a patentable invention: Somebody else might patent it. In most countries (with the exception of the United States), where more than one person or enterprise has filed patent applications for the same invention, the first person or enterprise to apply will have the right to the patent. This may mean that, if you do not patent your inventions or the inventions of your employees at all, or if you file your application too late, somebody else - who may have developed the same or an equivalent invention later - might get a patent. The patent-holder will then be able to legitimately exclude your enterprise from the market, limit its activities to the continuation of prior use (where the patent legislation provides for such exception) or ask your enterprise to pay a licensing fee for using the invention. Competitors will take advantage of your invention. If the product is successful, many other competitor firms will be tempted to make the same product by using your invention but without having to pay for such use. Larger companies may take advantage of economies of scale to produce the product more cheaply and compete at a more favourable market price. This may considerably reduce your market share for that product. Even small competing companies can produce the same product and often sell it at a lower price, as they do not have to recoup research and development (R&D)costs you have invested. Possibilities of licensing, selling or transferring technology will be severely hampered. Nobody is willing to pay for the right to use something that does not belong to anybody. Without IP protection, opportunities for licensing the technology to others in exchange for royalties are severely hampered. Moreover, wherever negotiations do take place for transferring a given technological development without IP protection over the technology in question, parties are wary of disclosing their inventions, fearing that the other side may 'run away with the invention'. Patent protection limits the risks of this happening.
Quote from: broli on November 16, 2008, 09:06:47 AM
Ab, it's oke your brainwashed mind cant comprehend it I understand. You can do things your own way but don't come crying when you start living on the street holding "Will make bessler wheels for Food.". Because surely that's your reality, rich or poor.
Broli
You obvious don't know what it is like to live in poverty. Crippled and only have your hand to scratch out a surviving. I HAVE! So until you have walked a mile in my shoes, you don't know $#!+. If I am brainwashed it is from the school of hard knock. Knot like you being brainwashed by the school of cartoons. And worst of all I believe you said your are a school teacher. No wonder the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Our kids are being taught by loonies.
edit PS Where are your designs posted?
I'm just a guy that lives on by doing favors for others that might cost them a fortune otherwise and getting enough money to survive and praise my life. Their appreciation and respect is more priceless than anything else on this planet. If you think you are going to take revenge of your poverty and handicap by fueling the fire that burned you then there's something wrong with your head.
And for the record I've never said I'm a school teacher.
PS: AB here is the entire map of my quest so far...go nuts.
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/free energy research.rar (http://ziosproject.com/NJ/free%20energy%20research.rar)
And next time don't act as an asshole as I find every opportunity to share my work an honor and work my ass off on presenting it the best I can. You should have known this.
Broli
A fair collection of what other people have given. Now what have you given?
I have posted sever designs and have helped many people on this quest. And after I am protected I will show for the do it yourself builders to build. No one should demand any more than that, for you are then stepping on peoples wrights if you do.
Broli,
So I do not know any thing about 'open source licensing?
Please find me one for a gravity wheel, you can start here: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical
Alan's statement of your link being a fair collection of other peoples work is a good description. please specify exactly which is yours as most of it I recognize as being the property of others which has been posted without copyright. After downloading your album I deleted a vast majority of it! including all WM2D files. The company that owns WM2D has never offered or seen fit to free source the program with me. You may call it 'free source but some may consider it stealing or plagiarism. Of course you and I know its OK as they did not take the time to post any restriction on it.
If I am involved or receive recognition for bringing a gravity machine to reality I promise that I will live up to your expectations and give one to your neighbor. Please be ready upon notification to respond with your physical address so that I can deliver. At his discretion he may or may not allow you to watch it run for 'free'.
I will and do "Free source" my ideas with members that shows the aptitude, empirical skills, initiative to research, build test machines and show integrity. I am afraid 'Armchair philosophers and those screaming they want it for free do not qualify.
Here is just one public example for a person that meets my requirements and I readily 'free source" with;
http://www.real-free-energy.co.uk/new_page_1.htm#Page%202 Of course there are many others including James Kelly, Preston Stroud, and Alan on different forums to numerous to list and most wish to remain confidential.
This is my last post regarding your accusations, it is time to get this thread back on track of 'Free Sourcing" Bobs design.
Ralph
Quote from: rlortie on November 16, 2008, 02:10:12 PM
This is my last post regarding your accusations, it is time to get this thread back on track of 'Free Sourcing" Bobs design.
Thanks Ralph, I totally agree.
In fact, I have some additional Bob design info that I would like to bring up, but want to wait until this Open source / Patenting sh#t storm is over. If you guys wouldn't mind, please move your post to Open Source Vs Patenting thread at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1821.msg137914#msg137914.
Thanks, Larry
Sorry LarryC it's over you may go on.
Larry,
I apologize for the inconvenience my response to Broli has caused here. Not being aware of;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1821.msg137914#msg137914 I have started a new thread regarding Free Source.
Ralph
@ Ralph, Broli,
I certainly don't mean to belittle your points, but many thinks gentlemen, for moving that conversation on to other threads.
@ All,
My new statement/inquiry is based on one of Bob's post to Charlie:
The cam mechanism is stationary and is positioned as such that it starts to pick up the weights at about 3:30
and at 5:00 (approximately) the 42 inch rod does the rest. I have added a super charger of sorts that enables
much more weight to be lifted. Hope this helps.
The 42 inch rod is the actuator arm and is supposed to have a 6" to 36" lever ratio. What is the super charger? Could it be that the rod is spring loaded and has a locking mechanism to capture the CF slam force?
Please keep in mind that it is not only CF (MV2/R) being captured, but a slamming of that accumulated force over time/distance. I've seen this with the slam as it throws the unit back if not controlled.
I am currently trying to get the rod setup designed with a spring/bungee loaded locking mechanism into the center of my unit but it is difficult with the cam and levers that are allready in place and will have to rework the entire mechanism with much tighter tolerances.
Regards, Larry
Edited out, for Bobs sake I changed my mind about what I was going to write here. Some may have already seen it.
Look what I found...an old school horizontal gravity wheel ;D
Just flip it vertical, then add some weights and guides. Check out the simple mechanics. Could this be modified into a "Bob" design? Maybe use a "snail cam" in the center??
Quote from: yaz on November 17, 2008, 04:28:18 PM
Look what I found...an old school horizontal gravity wheel ;D
Just flip it vertical, then add some weights and guides. Check out the simple mechanics. Could this be modified into a "Bob" design? Maybe use a "snail cam" in the center??
Nice info yaz! I've been looking for a way to turn the captured CF sling force into rotational increase and this may help.
Thanks, Larry
Greetings yaz
Thanks for posting, and I can remember playing on that type of toy when I was very young. ;D
Quote from: rlortie on November 17, 2008, 12:16:35 PM
Edited out, for Bobs sake I changed my mind about what I was going to write here. Some may have already seen it.
Actually Ralph, I had seen your very interesting post earlier but was still in my development time and it would take some data collection to properly answer your questions.
For Bob's sake! I also feel that way. But what I don't want to see is Bob's mysteries death or being nation security suppressed as so many other great OU inventors. Bob has the patent pending protection, If his unit was replicated around the world then his threat level and suppresion decreases to almost zero.
My unit, if I get it to work will not last long as will other replications of Bob's design. It will take a lot of engineering and premium materials to have a steady runner. It is only a proof of Bob's design.
So just from what I recall of your post:
The springs are latched. He starts the machine with both set of springs latched to allow the machine to get up to minimum running speed. The weight boxes due to the sling outward, hit the edge at a much higher force than the static CF force that maintain the rotor in position. If you don't lock the springs they will throw the rotating unit back and cause a dreaded roller smash. I've seen it and got the smashed roller supports to prove it.
The first 4" of lift is done with the springs and the cam over 45 degrees spin. This is easily done because the springs when released help lift the weight boxes up. The next 8"+ over 30 degrees spin is done with a actuator arm (6/36 lever) and his supercharger. I believe the supercharger is based on the compressed air saved during the CF sling force capture at center using some type of bellow shock. Then, If you have a air jack it could follow up the lift arm with little psi but could be fully released for the 8"+ and supercharge the second lift. I'm sure there are many other methods that would accomplish the same lift.
The cam follower has a roller at 2.5" from pivot center and at 10" past is connected to a 24" lifting arm to the weight box (per Bob). When the 2.5" roller is lifted .8" than the 10" past is lifted 4". So it only requires 1.6"+ lift on the 2.5" roller to get the 8"+ using the 6/36 lever and the air jack.
Regards, Larry
Hi everyone. Glad to help. I also found a site that has different mechanical animations. It really helps to see how a cam actually works, in real life.
This is the page with different cam designs. If Bob said he used a cam then it has to be something borrowed from there.
http://www.technologystudent.com/cams/camdex.htm
The index at the top of the page takes you to other mechanical animations. Hope this cuts down on some design time.
LarryC,
you wrote: For Bob's sake! I also feel that way. But what I don't want to see is Bob's mysteries death or being nation security suppressed as so many other great OU inventors. Bob has the patent pending protection, If his unit was replicated around the world then his threat level and suppresion decreases to almost zero.
You say he already has the patent pending protection, if so then what is the hang up? why can we not access it? If Bob has it, he should be shouting it from every roof top and forum page. Get it on PESwiki and Alternate Energy News. If he doesn't then, yes he is taking a chance of possibly shortening his life span. The percentage of that span will be directly proportional to the efficiency of his machine.
So just from what I recall of your post:
The springs are latched. He starts the machine with both set of springs latched to allow the machine to get up to minimum running speed. The weight boxes due to the sling outward, hit the edge at a much higher force than the static CF force that maintain the rotor in position. .
I am sorry but this is not my description, you have me confused with someone else. My version has no mention of springs being latched. True the machine must be preloaded to start, true the weight boxes are forced outwards at a higher force than achieved by CF alone.
If you don't lock the springs they will throw the rotating unit back and cause a dreaded roller smash. I've seen it and got the smashed roller supports to prove it.
At this time unless I build it, I see no need to lock the weights or springs as once 'out' CF will hold it there until it is time to cycle. But then again If I build I will not be using a cam and levers.
Due to certain parties alleged to be in direct working contact with Bob, (and I lean heavy on the term "Alleged") I have taken the incentive to divulge myself with what is known of Bob's machine. I feel that I have grasped the concept and can improve upon a second generation of his design.
I also feel that I have uncovered some obvious discrepancy in the video of Bob unscrewing a disc brake pad to manually start the pre-set machine. A minor concern is the number of turns he applies to the crank, count them! Ask yourself, how far must an automotive disk brake travel to either stop or free a wheel. I am not talking about a caliper brake as found on a bicycle here.
I do not know if you have personal contact with bob and/or what he has told you in confidence, I have a problem believing your present course is the correct one or should I say; the way Bob's wheel allegedly works.
What I have conceived from knowledge at hand could be detrimental to Bob if I were to post it at this point. when I am confident that he has a patent application number in hand, then I will speak more freely and post the excerpt that I previously edited out.
In the meantime I am attempting to make first and third party contact with him so that a caucus type exchange can bring us to a mutual understanding. In the meantime I do not wish to upset his apple cart! If I do not get an answer within a reasonable time I will go forth on my own accord. I am not looking forward to this approach but if Bob refuses to move forward then I see no alternative. If his machine is truly a runner then he is already in possible jeopardy.
My research has lead me to a compiled list of manufactures and distributors for everything required to build a facsimile of his machine as seen in the side view photo. We can all free source our own machine once the patent drawings become available. The current drawing found on his web page is not what I have in mind.
Ralph Lortie
Quote from: LarryC on November 17, 2008, 05:33:45 PM
Nice info yaz! I've been looking for a way to turn the captured CF sling force into rotational increase and this may help.
Thanks, Larry
Yes! I too played on one of these, it was big enough to have 12 children provide power with six hand and foot treadles wide enough for two children to operate. There were six connecting rods connected to the stationary crank journal.
@ Larry
If this interests you, I suggest you do background research on radial combustion airplane engines. One in particular used during the First World War, the crankshaft was stationary (as is the merry go round) and the cylinder block and heads rotated to which the propeller was firmly attached. One thing you will learn is that they all contained an odd number of pistons. 5-7-9 and multiples thereof.
I have built a number of designs based on this concept, none of them ran but their are many more versions left to try.
Back to Bob! I am sure the question will rise; If I think I have the answer, why am I not jumping in and building one. Well the answer is obvious to some but to others I will say; Hey its Bob's machine, he has first crack at bringing it to a productive commodity. If he doesn't then I will consider it fair game.
Ralph
Quote from: yaz on November 17, 2008, 06:49:39 PM
Hi everyone. Glad to help. I also found a site that has different mechanical animations. It really helps to see how a cam actually works, in real life.
This is the page with different cam designs. If Bob said he used a cam then it has to be something borrowed from there.
http://www.technologystudent.com/cams/camdex.htm
The index at the top of the page takes you to other mechanical animations. Hope this cuts down on some design time.
Very interesting, thanks again yaz. Actually I had googled for cam info before and didn't find near this amount of infomation.
Regards, Larry
@Ralph,
Sorry for the confusion with the So just from what I recall of your post:. I should have stated The following are my responses to what I recall from your post:
I have no private info from Bob. All of my info came from Bob's various post in this thread and one of the emails he sent to Charlie. Please see the attached Bob Kostoff comments doc where I compiled a list of his machine comments. It was posted earlier but I know there is a lot of post to go thru. After reading the doc I'm sure you will understand where I got my current design. Actually it took a while to figure out, but with the help of Charlie and others comments on this thread, we finally pieced it together where it fits a lot of Bob statements.
On my unit I don't have the air cylinder or shocks, but I am trying to figure out how I can replicate the extra lift needed for the 8"+ without that advantage.
At this time unless I build it, I see no need to lock the weights or springs as once 'out' CF will hold it there until it is time to cycle.
You will see the statement in the doc that he used a locking pin to release the springs. It is necessary to capture the additional CF sling force with a locking pin, the CF force once 'out' is less than the CF sling force. If you don't capture it at that point it will reduce the chance of running.
@All,
Anyone wishing to replicate should review the attached document of Bob's comments first, if you haven't seen it before.
Regards, Larry
Larry,
I understand and I give you kudos for attempting to build from the context of available knowledge. My main concern and reasoning for delay is that a lot of this information is not compatible with the visualization we have in the videos and still shots. I am hesitant in fear of seeing another Charles Campbell scenario taking place here!
I have a contact who claims to be advising Bob on marketing and utilizing procedures. He also claims to have influence on what we see posted on his web site. At the same time he admits that he has not seen the machine or knows whether it runs or not. This person I speak of, I trust without question. He is very far away from Bob, so he has delegated a close friend to go look at Bobs status and check out his machine. I have been advised that I may expect an update within the next week or before the end of the month. Not that it is going to matter much to us as individuals, but if it does work and Bob gets it patented and on the market then we can all sing "hallelujah and start building for personal use.
If its another Charles Campbell story then we all return to where we should be anyway, and that is either at the drafting table (Cad for some) or the shop pushing onward.
Now back to your endeavor: There are a number of things contained in the still picture that I believe are a must, I will mention three of them. Hydraulic cylinder, a valve body and the air compressor you see under the workbench to the far right in the picture. The machine may be either hydraulic or pneumatic, for inertia and response time I prefer pneumatic. All those hoses and fittings are there for a reason, and I do not believe it is just for show! In fact it would not surprise me to find electronic circuitry controlling solenoids. (Note what looks like wires hanging down toward the hydraulic piston rod)
There is a lot in this picture that the normal observer would either dismiss or overlook. All the tie straps and wires, the hose leading to the air compressor the location and reasoning of the axis on the pulley located on the back side.
A 565% increase in picture size on a quality monitor will bring up a lot for conversation. How many members noted the washing machine discharge hose laying on the work table.Is it a component for the machine? Is that air compressor what I think it is? a Sears Craftsman actually built by DevilBliss?
What about those so called latches on the compression springs, I fail to see any! And are the bellows from here? http://www.ibcbellows.com/?gclid=CJSSm7WI_ZYCFRg6awodET_HXg or here
http://www.airoil.com/v6/index1.html my choice is the first link!
Ralph Lortie
Hi Ralph,
Your comment below caught my eye so I went back and reviewed the video.
Quote from: rlortie on November 17, 2008, 09:55:52 PM
I also feel that I have uncovered some obvious discrepancy in the video of Bob unscrewing a disc brake pad to manually start the pre-set machine. A minor concern is the number of turns he applies to the crank, count them! Ask yourself, how far must an automotive disk brake travel to either stop or free a wheel. I am not talking about a caliper brake as found on a bicycle here.
What I see is him releasing the pad from the brake, pushing the machine to start it and then retightening the pad to control the speed. I would think that the amount of cranks would depend on the fineness of the thread used. I believe that he could be using a caliper style clamp and the hinge point of the caliper would also affect the number or turns. So personally, I see no discrepancy.
Regards,
Charlie
Charlie
Thinking about the break. The only way it might take that many turns for the break is if he is using a screw plunger for a hydraulic system. For a mechanical screw break even with fine threads would only take a turn or two.
Hi AB,
That's true. But what I think Bob is doing is backing off the brake much farther than necessary just to start the machine. Then, quite clearly in the video, tightening it again to control the speed. In fact, this is what he states in the video.
If he is using the brake as a speed control you would want as fine a control as possible. If the caliper is a scissor-type of caliper this would provide the greatest braking leverage and control and yes, many more turns. So again, no discrepancy.
Maybe Bob will correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
Charlie
@Ralph,
Comment from Bob in reply #83:
The compressor in the movie is what I was the machine was driving to do some usefull work. The machine wasn't ballanced and the board that is moveing is used as a shelf or small table.
There are no hoses or airlines conected to it.
There has been a lot of speculation about the various items in his shop. I'm going to take Bob's word about this until I'm proven wrong.
What about those so called latches on the compression springs, I fail to see any! And are the bellows from here?
The latch mechanism on my Irwin clamp is a metal bar with a slit that has a slant on each edge and it jams the bar, but releases with a slight twist force. I suspect a similar simple setup is used and would not be very visible. It may be inside the metal support block.
The ridges of the bellow cover or bellow shock can be seen just to the top left of the center. I'm sure he needed to use something more compact than the springs in the center due to space restriction. Also, the air shocks would be of the type with no rebound and the air could be stored and released as needed for the 8"+.
My main concern and reasoning for delay is that a lot of this information is not compatible with the visualization we have in the videos and still shots.
His machine is almost twice as wide as mine, approx. 20", but my levers are very close to his specs. If my machine was the same width and was in the position of the photo you would not be able to see the levers sticking out, only close to full top or bottom would it show. I don't have his 6/36" leaver, trying to figure out how to fit it in back, but it would not show either since it is only used over 15 degrees.
I may end up with the pneumatic as it may be the only way to apply the needed force for the 8"+. But this would be very difficult for me to implement.
Regards, Larry
@all
The only other comment I wish to make at this point is that we have Bob's statement that his latest machine is no less than the ninth variant of his original concept. Therefore, making assumptions based on a couple of stills and video is risky when we don't know exactly where these fall in the evolutionary pathway of his design.
Regards,
Charlie
@Larry,
you wrote: I may end up with the pneumatic as it may be the only way to apply the needed force for the 8"+. But this would be very difficult for me to implement
A fine example of why I stated in a previous post to Bob: The number of people that would be capable of building the machine for individual use is infinitesimal. The financial % that would be lost in sales of his machine would be so insignificant that it would not even be noticeable. Once again I reiterate, Why if he has his Patent or Patent pending number is he not coming forward. with the announcement.
I have been informed allegedly that Bob once signed a contract and disclosure statement with a Hot House patent company, you know the type that advertise on TV "Inventors wanted" Of course it ended up with them demanding start up fees from Bob. So consider that he has already been BURNED once! So is he being cautious, you bet he is! My attempt to reason with him is... If you build a better mouse trap the people will beat a path to your door. A very old adage, but the only improvement it needs is advertising, leading to public knowledge. Bob need not lay out one thin Canadian Dime if he can display a self-sustaining machine. Investors will cover all costs of patenting, start-up and production.
Having been involved in over-unity research as long as I have, one phone call is all I need, stating that I have a self-runner, investors will be knocking on my door in less than 48 hours. Why? because they know I will not call until I have a verified documented runner.
On another related note; Remember Bob wrote a post aimed at me stating; "would you just give it away, I do not think so". With that thought in mind, how much of the information released do you feel is viable? If he is not going to give, then obviously he is either not telling all or he is leading the 'doers' down a dead end path! Best wait and see!
That does not mean you should stop attempting to duplicate, simply apply your own innovative thoughts where you feel they are applicable. If Bob continues to drag his feet then you may be the one to beat him to the punch! As per Larry's above quote, I recommend or suggest that only those with knowledge and capability of fabricating a double acting hydraulic or pneumatic system with the required knowledge of transference (valve reciprocation) attempt to follow Bob's design.
This one arm bandit concept needs a turbocharger in the form of an outside energy source. Once improved upon, one must hope that the gross output will be sufficient to provide the input leaving a net force for other usage.
Regarding the brake release scenario; A 1/4 x 20 piece of all-thread will move one full inch in 20 turns. A caliper disk brake requires only a few thousands of travel.
Ralph Lortie
Quote from: noonespecial on November 18, 2008, 11:09:28 AM
@all
The only other comment I wish to make at this point is that we have Bob's statement that his latest machine is no less than the ninth variant of his original concept. Therefore, making assumptions based on a couple of stills and video is risky when we don't know exactly where these fall in the evolutionary pathway of his design.
Regards,
Charlie
A very well placed thought provoking statement Charlie, one I am in total agreement with! If Bob is adamant of not giving, then he is not going to give us a "show and tell" lecture from the nearest podium.
If you look at the beginning of the thread from Bob's perspective he unveiled "everything" about the wheel (he even asked people to email him for the workings of it). At least that's how it would have looked like from his standpoint. You have to imagen explaining your invention. From your perspective it would seem like you gave everything away since you already know how it works. But from our standpoint it's a complete different matter. And I believe he also saw this the last period. People in here were struggling with the concept so he figured he'd leave it at that to not have successful replications yet. That's why his last short response was unlike the previous ones. The only mystery to me was his proposed cam system which till this day I still don't understand.
Quote from: hartiberlin on September 06, 2007, 04:30:18 PM
Here is the Canadian patent office website,
but I did not yet find any gravity related patent by the inventor name
Kostoff, so maybe someone else is lucky to find it ?
http://patents1.ic.gc.ca/srch_adv-e.html
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
It has recently come to my understanding that the patent is allegedly, deliberately not written up as a gravity related patent. The concept is hidden within a device that falls in another category. If possible one may have to do a "wide search by inventor name if feasible on the patent search engine employed.
@ LarryC,
Could you please direct me to the post where you learned of the cam and levered followers? All I can find is mention of a cam. I am lacking input as to what kind of cam or its function, hydraulic valve cam, make and break contact cam, lifter cam, ETC.
Ralph Lortie
Quote from: rlortie on November 18, 2008, 04:13:55 PM
If possible one may have to do a "wide search by inventor name if feasible on the patent search engine employed.
Bob Kostoff Is his full name. I searched both the US and Canadian databases but found no matches.
As Ralph has stated, its possible that Bob was clever enough to hide the specific invention within a more nebulous title. And if Bob went to that length, its also probably not filed under his name.
According to Canadian (and I assume US) patent law, its possible to protect an inventory's anonimity by filing under an assignee's name.
Regards,
Charlie
Quote from: rlortie on November 18, 2008, 04:13:55 PM
Could you please direct me to the post where you learned of the cam and levered followers? All I can find is mention of a cam. I am lacking input as to what kind of cam or its function, hydraulic valve cam, make and break contact cam, lifter cam, ETC.
Bob's post follows:
The way to lift the weight to the opposit end is at the 4:00 oclock position (later he states 3:30) an arm from the centre, on a cam mecanisum to the end of the arm (2.5 ft) is forced around and lifts the linked weights 1" farther than 1/2 the total travel. Centricical force will lift it the rest of the way. It acts like a leaver 2.5" to centre and 10" past.The farther it pushes the weight from the bottom the easier it gets.The first 2" is the heaviest. The spring mecanisum helps at the first of the upward stroke.
This was hard to figure until we applied it as a third class lever. First a pivot point than a roller at 2.5" from the pivot and then at 10" past the 2.5" roller it connects to the 2.5 FT lift arm connected to the weight boxes. Once this lever mechanism was established than the cam requirement fall into place. If the cam lifts the 2.5" roller .8" over 45 degrees (3:30 to 5:00) with spring assist then the 10" past will lift the weight boxes at the end of the 2.5FT rods 4". If another 1.6" lift was added to the 2.5" roller at 5:00 to 6:00 (30 degrees) than the weight box lift will be another 8". The last 1.6" is done by the actuator arm (6/36") plus supercharger per Bob.
Regards, Larry
LarryC , Charlie and broli,
Thank you for your research and input.
Shaking the apple tree as we have been doing the last couple of days, has caused an apple or two to fall! They are not ripe yet and we know green apples are not good for us.
I suggest we all go back to our own research or what ever and proceed our favored path, whether it be hands on research or armchair philosophy. I have recieved confirmation that we have all we are going to get for now regarding Bob's machine. I feel that any more speculation here other than reference to personal progress of ones own endeavors will be in vain. We are not going to hear from Bob until he is ready to pull back the curtain.
Those concerned about the possibility of Bob and his machine going the same way as Bessler need not fear, it is not going to happen!
If you are attempting to duplicate as Larry is doing, I suggest you proceed using your own innovation. I am going to shelve all my research on this and wait for an announcement which hopefully (as quoted) will come before the end of November. If we do not hear anything by then I for one will consider proceeding with my own version. I have been patient for fifty years, another couple of weeks is a drop in the bucket!
Tomorrow I return to the shop, I have a couple of concepts to work on. Luckily I have three test beds, when I tire or loose patience with one I jump to another, giving my mind a chance to clear and reflect. Its my way of avoiding 'tunnel vision'
Regards,
Ralph Lortie
@Ralph,
If you are attempting to duplicate as Larry is doing, I suggest you proceed using your own innovation. I am going to shelve all my research on this and wait for an announcement which hopefully (as quoted) will come before the end of November. If we do not hear anything by then I for one will consider proceeding with my own version. I have been patient for fifty years, another couple of weeks is a drop in the bucket!
Yes, Ralph, I tried to valiantly responsed to you earlier, that is gone now as I cannot sustain.
Do you really think you may have all the time in the world? My father in law, not much older than you, but earlier today (2:47 Ct AM), I was awaking by a phone call from the hospital with my father in laws unsuspected death and my wife's (his daughter) extreme sadness. So I may be out of touch for a while.
So please people, get er done while you're here, for your family and the world, before your ability to do so is going!
Regards, Larry
Larry,
Do you really think you may have all the time in the world? My father in law, not much older than you, but earlier today (2:47 Ct AM), I was awaking by a phone call from the hospital with my father in laws unsuspected death and my wife's (his daughter) extreme sadness. So I may be out of touch for a while.
I am sorry to hear of your loss and offer my condolence. And no! we do not have all the time in the world, at least not as an individual. I am on borrowed time now.
So please people, get er done while you're here, for your family and the world, before your ability to do so is going!
I only exist for that reason, its a long story and I will not go into full detail but after my second heart attack I was diagnosed in August of 2002 and told I would be dead by February of 2003
In October 2002 I flat lined and was revived 27 times in a period of a 300 mile fixed wing jet airplane ride while being transported to a Cardiology Hospital. There after awakening I was informed that I was a prime candidate for a new experimental heart surgery procedure. I offered myself as a walk in cadaver to Oregon State University teaching hospital,
The operation procedure was explained to me and that my chances of surviving the operation were very low. Both my wife and I had to sign a contractual agreement. My heart was sliced and diced and sewn back together. When I came out of the anesthesia Alan Alda and the crew from Scientific American Frontiers was there. Two months later a defibrillator was implanted in my chest. Every three months I now go in and have my inboard computer downloaded and battery checked.
Now I am not a Bible thumper but for some reason it just wasn't my time to go. Ever since I have had this insatiable urge to put full time into seeking a new energy source, I chose to pursue gravity after spending many years with magnets. For me it is the only reason I am alive. it is as though God said, No I am not ready for you yet, you have something more to do, and I cannot think of what it is other than turning gravity into a clean energy source. It is the direction he pointed me in!
For those that follow the readings of the Bible, God said in so many words that there is everything here man will ever desire, seek and ye shall find. As our technology grows so does our seeking and finding. But IMO we are not going to find it until we are smart or evolved enough to utilize it, a walk through history will tend to confirm this.
My life is built around gravity wheels and that damn guy named Bessler. Before I die it is imperative that I or some one stands on his shoulders while he is in a lake over his head!. In the meantime my house that is in need of maintainance is falling down around my ears. Research in the shop and on the computer are more important until the roof springs a leak!
Maybe this will help explain why I offer to build viable or questionable designs for people who lack the resources or empirical skills to build their own.
Odd...isn't it?
The problem with these forums is that we converse/spar with faceless nicknames. Its so easy to view them adversarially until you 'walk a mile in their shoes' so to speak.
Thank you Ralph...very inspirational.
And sincere condolences to LarryC.
Regards,
Charlie
My condolences to you LarryC
May positive closer come from this time of sorrow.
@all
In Larry's absence, I thought that I would offer my version of this project to continue this discussion. I would appreciate any constructive
comments, suggestions, etc.
Mine is about 90% completed as you can see but the basic theory is that there is a 1/2" steel pin mounted offset on either side of the rotor plate that holds the weights. The rotor assembly moves clockwise and the pin moves under the short arm strike plate lifting the short arm and pressing down on the actuator arm. This loads the extension spring and moves the actuator arm into position for the lift. With the pins mounted close to the center there should be sufficient leverage.
Just prior to the 6:00/12:00 position, the pin rolls off of the short arm releasing the energy stored in the spring and/or counterweights lifting the weights/roller up to the retention ramp. I'm hoping I can accomplish this within a 30 degree arc or less. Once the roller is on the ramp the weights fall on the right side and the cycle continues.
Regards,
Charlie
Off topic a bit but I am wondering if anyone can enlighten me as to the history / origin of the two Bessler illustrations below. I am most curious as to their timelines. One thing that stands out to me is that the shadowing under the Cornish stamp mill in the one illustration is the same as the other perspective in the same drawing where is in the other illustration they are opposing shadows in the two perspectives. I am curious also about the alignment of the cogs on the stamp mill in the two illustrations. They are different. Two cogs on the axle are aligned in the one and very slightly offset in the other. This was something never seen in actual stamp mills.
Thanking all in advance for the least input.
It was brought to my attention that the pictures that I posted were hard to see the detail so here's a drawing which hopefully will be clearer.
Regards,
Charlie
Bod could have "invented" his gravity wheel modified from this:
http://www.xaris1.gr/LANGUAGE/GREEK/PDF/15.%CE%92%CE%91%CE%A1%CE%A5%CE%A4%CE%97%CE%9A%CE%97%20%CE%9C%CE%97%CE%A7%CE%91%CE%9D%CE%97%20%CE%95%CE%9D%CE%95%CE%A1%CE%93%CE%95%CE%99%CE%91%CE%A3%201,2%CE%9C%CE%92.pdf
Its actually thought that Creative Science bought the rights to this early design that requires an external source from Bob. Bob went on to develop a unit that doesn't require an external power source.
Regards,
Charlie
Unbalanced,
First off, go to Besslerwheel.com home page, I cannot post the link as the server is apparently down at the moment. Not the forum page if you open the forum click on the Bessler.com located at the very top of the page. Here you will find a time-line and drawing links.
If you are scrutinizing these pictures in hopes of clues, forget it! These drawings have been cussed and discussed since their conception. There are many forum pages related to these pictures. They contain more discrepancies than I care to count.
The bottom line is that you must accept the alleged fact either Bessler had a working wheel or it was a scam! From there you are pretty much on your own and to work with the believers. Bessler were was quite adamant that he was not going to give it away. The pictures IMO make that point perfectly clear!
@ Charlie,
Sometimes (actually a lot of time) I feel like the legendary Irish Banshee of Death, It seems that I am always knocking on someones door explaining to them why I feel their idea will not work. With your latest drawings I am having a problem figuring out how you get the tension spring loaded lever back under the rotating weight at six o'clock without deploying the same amount of force you expect in return?
Ralph
Quote from: noonespecial on November 20, 2008, 11:47:17 AM
Its actually thought that Creative Science bought the rights to this early design that requires an external source from Bob. Bob went on to develop a unit that doesn't require an external power source.
Regards,
Charlie
Creative Science and Research have been selling this plan since 2003, and there is no way that Bob was selling it to them. It should be the other way round. OK, Charlie, just to let you know something since you are so interested in Bob's gravity wheel. But before that, you should download a copy of this for your reference before it "disappear" from the web. After several trial and error, I got to build one of this machine and happy to say it works! But...but...but....it is NOT over unity yet. I used it to drive a small generator to produce enough power to a car battery to run a tiny air compressor to power the air cylinder and after several hours of running, the battery have to be charged from a wall cable plug. There could be 2 reasons for the failure. The one I built could be too small using weights of only 1kg and a "stretched-arms" diameter of only 600mm or about 2 feet. The second reason is the air cylinder I am using is too big and too much air is wasted. Take a look at Page 9 and you will know how the sequence work. If I have more time and money, I will built another bigger one which will be more realistic and hopefully (which I think it will) to achieve "over-unity"
Just like Bob's machine, the swing is "extremely" powerful. The use of compressed air is very little as what Bob had mentioned and this is what he mean by "enhancement system."
Bob's system could look a bit different because it has to be different before he can patent it (but I don't think he could get it patented so easily).
You can get your disc brake here: http://www.ringspann.com/uk/products/p46/p46txt.htm
For mini or small and cheap air compressor: http://www.safety-devices.com/air_compressor.htm
Cheers and Good Luck!
Creative Science does not hold any patents that I am aware of. All they have is copyright pages of how to build.
They make a feeble attempt to protect their collection of un-patentable publications with the following disclosure which to my thinking is not worth the paper it is written on. I have underlined the only tangible wording they have a leg to stand on.
These plans are for your eyes only! You can not show anyone else these plans with out our written
permission. You can not copy resell or give away these plans or any other set of plans you may have
purchased from us as well as our videos. You can not manufacture this device or any of our other
devices without our written permission.
You are allowed and can build different size models and use for them for your own use only.
You Build at your own risk, these plans involve the use of dangerous products as well as high
voltage devices, always wear rubber gloves to protect yourself against electrical shock, one
mistake and you are dead! So please be very careful!
You can never build any of our free energy devices and show them to any part of the media or
newspaper media in anyway or you will be sued as well as all other legal action taken. Our free
energy devices must be built by individuals like you, this is the plan we have chosen to take and will
slowly introduce free energy devices to the world! Free energy devices must be slowly introduced to
the world! If you do not take our advice and you try to get away with manufacturing our devices, not
only will we find you and take legal action but Big Brother will take action as well! ( Who ever Big Brother
really is )? Who ever they are, they have agents who take care of these things and much differently
than we would do. Believe me, we have tried to manufacture them ourselves and found out the hard
way!
Oh Boy I am really impressed. They write this stuff because they think any body gullible enough to believe in over-unity will also be gullible enough to fall for this crap. Everything here is already "free source except the publication.
A little redesigning and a re-write of terminology and your off to the patent office! Did you know that the wheelbarrow was never patented? I am surprised they are not claiming ownership of that too!
IN THE 1994 AT&T 1-800 BUSINESS YELLOW PAGES BOOK A manufacturing company tried to
sell free energy electric motors and generators! Wow! That takes guts! They had a large ad on one of
the yellow book pages, (we still have a copy of that page ) they were quickly shut down and never
heard from ever again. We tried many times to find them and contact them but all the phone numbers
that were in there ad were disconnected! So who is doing this? Who is suppressing the
manufacturing of free energy devices, IT’S BEST THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW!....................
OK! Should I be quaking in my boots, out of fear? show us the ad, a yellow page ad is free source as the advertiser wants all to see it.
Ralph
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 01:18:38 PM
@ Charlie,
Sometimes (actually a lot of time) I feel like the legendary Irish Banshee of Death, It seems that I am always knocking on someones door explaining to them why I feel their idea will not work. With your latest drawings I am having a problem figuring out how you get the tension spring loaded lever back under the rotating weight at six o'clock without deploying the same amount of force you expect in return?
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
No problem, I appreciate your review and comment. Without completing it and seeing exactly what will actually happen, I'm expecting that the rotor assembly, acting like a large rotating lever will have the traditional F
1D
1=F
2D
2 force plus the added rotational force present at the 6:00 position. I haven't calculated the exact force at the lifting pin but logic suggests that it will be greater than the force required to lower the actuator arm and load the spring. If not, then its back to the drawing board....:).
There is also a cam that lifts the weights 2.5" prior to the 6:00 point. I'm sure that you are aware that the force required to lift the weights drops off exponentially as they are raised and once the weights are just past the half way equilibrium point (depending on the speed)
they will raise themselves by centrifugal force.
If you can see an error in my thinking please let me know where I am going wrong and hopefully suggest a solution.
Regards,
Charlie
Hi Unity (Do you have a name?),
Wow! You actually built one of their machines? I've had their plans for several months and was originally going to build theirs until I saw Bob's.
Regarding which came first, we know that Bob claims to have worked on his for several years though I don't believe he ever stated an exact timeframe. The similarities are undeniable so I guess we are left with a 'chicken and egg' scenario. :)
Can you share some photos or video of your build?
Regards,
Charlie
Hello Charlie,
I have been involved in more heated debates regarding centrifugal force and centripetal force than I care to reflect upon, so I am going to be very careful of what I say here.
First I propose a few questions!... Are you aware or see any significance between an internal cam and an outside ramp? Remember a cam is nothing more than an internal version of a ramp, its effect is just taking place on a different part of the lever.
Do you believe that one is more efficient than the other, and if so which?
Can you explain why you are led to pick one over the other disregarding aesthetics of design?
Which of Newton's 3 laws of motion covers the explanation of centrifugal force? A force that is only present within a mass physically contained to a radial path of motion.
What is the physical containment called?
Why did Bessler write; the weights are at a right angle to the axis?
(excerpt from author John Collins).
Reflect on this a for a bit and let me know your thoughts, it will give me a better understanding of how to proceed without creating a lot of unnecessary rebuttal. Put more effort into your own innovative thinking rather than rely on what Bob's influence has led you to believe. Its called the primrose lane! Bob has simply shown you the junction or fork leading to that path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primrose_Path
I say to all members: Go ahead and build, you may fall into something and if not you will be educated on another idea that does not work. The main thing is; build and test, get it out of your system so it does not cloud your future thinking. Physical trial and error research is the only way I see to win this battle. You will learn more by error than you ever will ever learn sitting at a computer philosophizing, drawing animations and/or simulations.
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 11:35:32 PM
I have been involved in more heated debates regarding centrifugal force and centripetal force than I care to reflect upon, so I am going to be very careful of what I say here.
Like you, I'm more interested in our conversations generating more light than heat.
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 11:35:32 PM
First I propose a few questions!... Are you aware or see any significance between an internal cam and an outside ramp? Remember a cam is nothing more than an internal version of a ramp, its effect is just taking place on a different part of the lever.
Do you believe that one is more efficient than the other, and if so which?
Can you explain why you are led to pick one over the other disregarding aesthetics of design?
Let me preface my comments by saying that it obvious that you have more knowledge that I do regarding mechanics. I am just a tinkerer who enjoys making things for the shear enjoyment and challenge. I honestly don't know the difference between a ramp and a cam with the exception of their function in a design. In my drawing, I chose a ramp to hold the weights out and a cam to lift the weights. To my mind, this just makes sense logically. If there is more efficient way, I'm all ears. :)
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 11:35:32 PM
Which of Newton's 3 laws of motion covers the explanation of centrifugal force? A force that is only present within a mass physically contained to a radial path of motion.
I'll have to look this up. Or, you can just let me know and how knowing will get us to a completed design quicker.
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 11:35:32 PM
What is the physical containment called?
Why did Bessler write; the weights are at a right angle to the axis?
(excerpt from author John Collins).
Before stumbling upon this forum a few months ago, I had never heard of Bessler so it would be hard for me to comment on his writings.
Quote from: rlortie on November 20, 2008, 11:35:32 PM
Reflect on this a for a bit and let me know your thoughts, it will give me a better understanding of how to proceed without creating a lot of unnecessary rebuttal. Put more effort into your own innovative thinking rather than rely on what Bob's influence has led you to believe. Its called the primrose lane! Bob has simply shown you the junction or fork leading to that path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primrose_Path
My design is a departure from Bob's. However, it may lack a necessary element to make it work and short of seeing Bob's drawings I'm left with only trial and error.
Regards,
Charlie
Hello Charlie,
I suggest that you and all members, rely less on Bob's design and follow your own intuition. Bob is (as I understand) is now involved in his ninth build. Does he have something?only time will tell, in the meantime he falls under the category of many members who have made premature announcements that they have it, or they will announce some future date to reveal there great invention. To date none have materialized!
One such member built a a rather large machine with very heavy weights. It was based on a double fixed ramp design that moved the weights inward at the bottom and back outward at the top. And yes just as Bob is stating it used latches. The mass shift was very short considering the large radius of the wheel. This in fact made for an almost balanced wheel. Due to the massive overall weight, once set in motion from a preloaded state, it would rotate for a considerable length of time. The fact that inertia and kinetic energy wishes to keep that which is in motion, in motion.
It was in fact so impressive that investors (one in particular) gave over $10,000 Canadian plus a shop building and a new computer with printer to the so called inventor for farther research. The machine (for obvious reasons) did not materialize and the last I heard the responsible party is now looking for more investors. He once approached me and stated that he would come to my home and assist me in working on his design if I would 'keep him' I took that to mean free room and board to work on something that I knew would never work!
What is the difference between an internal stationary placed cam and a fixed exterior ramp? To my experience, absolutely none! The intent of both is to physically change the path of a mass in radial motion. The means of creating a change in path it is forced to follow is called 'Centripetal force' and is physical. The end result of changing the radius of path is called 'angular motion'. The inward moving mass slows in velocity while the outward moving mass must gain in velocity.
Now enters centrifugal force; Centrifugal force for years was referred to as a 'fictional force' as it is felt as a force pulling outward from the axis. In reality centrifugal force is created by inertia, that which wishes something in radial motion to go straight and not follow the curve. Draw a circle with a small one in the center representing your axle. Any where around the circumference of you circle draw an arrow at a right angle to the axle. This represents the path the mass is attempting to follow and is what creates centrifugal force. The physical constraint prevents it from flying outward which is called centripetal. Centripetal being of physical mass directs the force to its center which is the axis of our wheel.
The ramp and the cam both being stationary represent friction also known as 'back torque' Many inventors have introduced us to thousands of designs based on the cam or ramp. You will find a very good assortment of them here on this forum as well as others. They all will have some little variance in design, such as adding magnets, springs, and latches. The most common claim is that their ramp or cam induces angular momentum to start at a different point or degree.
Click on my photo gallery link under author name to the far left of this page. Go to page six and zoom in on the third and fourth pictures. Here you will see a special test wheel I built to once and for all satisfy my curiosity regarding stationary ramps.
This test wheel is mounted on reinforced backed peg board The disk or wheel is made of 3/4" thick MDF (medium density fiberboard) The adjustable rim is double thickness 3/16" Tempered Hardboard. The flanged carrier bearings are 3/8" x 1-1/8". The levers are 1-3/8" X 14 gauge perforated bar stock. The weights which can also be referred to idlers, followers, rollers, are wheels from a set of Roller Blade skates and are very low in friction.
To make my tests as valid as possible, great care was taken to make sure there would be no discrepancy. First the mounting holes for the flanged bearing carrier bearings was laid out and drilled, axle bolts and bearings installed. I then set the disk with its horizontal axle into a double race balancing fixture for static and dynamic balancing. The four levers making up eight spokes were also balanced at center and then weighed on certified Postal scales to achieve a uniform weight, which ended up being 2 pounds seven ounces.
The rim was so designed that any elliptical path desired could be implemented. The point of inducement could also be varied anywhere around the perimeter.
Then the tests began, I tried every conceivable configuration imaginable. when centered and given a moderate start it would spin freely, No matter where I started the ramp or how much angle of attack I induced the machine would not or could not achieve a self-sustaining state. I was never able to force the lever up high enough for centrifugal force to complete the transference. The higher I lifted it the more back torque it imposes, causing loss of velocity which of course means loss of centrifugal force.
In closing argument; I say that Bob knows all about this and is why he diligently speaks of a supercharger. What can we qualify as a supercharger? In the mechanical world it means compressing air! The crutch of this is to wait and see if his machine can run the supercharger and have energy left over for utilization.
I will bet anybody a beer that when Bobs machine is revealed (if ever) it will be either pneumatic or hydraulic over pneumatic. Bob is not going to tell us, he has been hounded to his limits, tired of the e-mails and people attempting to find out where he lives, that being where they believe the machine to be. Forget it, its not at his residence and to my knowledge is not completed yet!
Meanwhile back at the ranch: I reiterate that we should leave Bob and his alleged machine by the wayside as we proceed with designs of our own making. To Charlie and Larry I can only add that I wish them the best of luck in attempting to turn what they have into a runner.
Ralph Lortie
Charlie,
Some times and quite frequently I might add; we overlook the obvious. I decided to take a coffee break from my own project and let my mind regroup. I took a second look (as the first look was a quick glance) at your work in progress and then at your drawing. I am puzzled by what I now see that I missed first time around. Solid lines depict start of cycle while dash lines represent end of cycle. Rotor arm has not moved as indicated by arrow.
You depict the actuator arm lifting a roller at 6:00 o'clock up to the ramp, roller has already been picked up 2.5" by cam. This roller I presume is on the end of your weighted lever. Won't the roller be in motion as it is picked up and be well past the ramp entrance when it gets there? What am I missing here?
Ralph
Quote from: rlortie on November 22, 2008, 12:45:09 AM
Charlie,
Some times and quite frequently I might add; we overlook the obvious. I decided to take a coffee break from my own project and let my mind regroup. I took a second look (as the first look was a quick glance) at your work in progress and then at your drawing. I am puzzled by what I now see that I missed first time around. Solid lines depict start of cycle while dash lines represent end of cycle. Rotor arm has not moved as indicated by arrow.
You depict the actuator arm lifting a roller at 6:00 o'clock up to the ramp, roller has already been picked up 2.5" by cam. This roller I presume is on the end of your weighted lever. Won't the roller be in motion as it is picked up and be well past the ramp entrance when it gets there? What am I missing here?
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
Good catch. Its hard to depict properly in a static drawing. Once the geometry and timing of the arms are set properly the weighted actuator arm will be lowered just ahead of the rotating assembly. As you point out, 6:00 may be too late so I have moved the collision point back to around 5:00. Again, I'm hoping that I can raise the weights with this actuator arm to meet the ramp entrance by the 6:00 point. If this can be accomplished, it should run.
I've been working on trying to figure out how much force should be presented to the short arm to know how much counter-resistance will be required to lift the weight assembly. I'm assuming this is basically a Class I lever scenario but I'm unsure how to factor in the gravitational acceleration. In other words, its a lever, but the force being applied to the long arm is accelerating not static. Do I substitute (m*a) for F
2? Any help here would be appreciated.
Regards,
Charlie
Charlie,
It is a waste of time to throw mathematical equations my way! It is well known over at Besslerwheel.com that do not do equations. In fact I am quite adamant regarding my math handicap.
Some people have a phobia such as height, spiders, ETC. Mine is anything with any thing containing equations. I have a very piss poor and impatient basic algebra teacher teacher in my freshman year of High School. I could not keep up with the class and was literally pushed aside and ignored.
I have made it through life by building a library of book contained charts. If I need to know the circumference of a circle I simply look it up. An Einstein Quote in so many words states; Why should I cram my brain memorizing known topics I can look up in a book. I take that to heart and made a substantial working career in blue collar mechanical engineering with it.
Now with the technology of computers and Google their is not much one cannot find.
http://www.physicsforums.com/library.php?do=home
This one is for you!
http://www.physicsforums.com/library.php?do=navigate&topicid=2&stopicid=14
All my research is done by trial and error, more is learned by accident than I could ever learn by analytical use of doing it on computer and paper.
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
Thanks for the reference! Great site.
A while back you asked:
"Sometimes (actually a lot of time) I feel like the legendary Irish Banshee of Death, It seems that I am always knocking on someones door explaining to them why I feel their idea will not work. With your latest drawings I am having a problem figuring out how you get the tension spring loaded lever back under the rotating weight at six o'clock without deploying the same amount of force you expect in return?"
The short answer is that I expect to have much more force available generated by the falling weight/lever combination than is required to load the arm and lift the weights. I have worked through what I believe is the correct math but need someone to validate my assumptions. I was hoping that was you based on the barrage of questions you gave me at the top of the page... :) .
Phobias aside, I assume you are familiar with a common lever? If the falling side of my 'lever' has a 10 pound weight which is located 4 times the distance from the fulcrum as the short end, theoretically, I could balance a 40 pound weight at the opposite end. Alternately, I could apply a 40 pound lifting force. So lets say I transfer 25 of those 40 pounds to some form of separate energy storage device (spring, weighted lever). If the total weight of my weight carriage is 20 pounds, I should be able to lift this weight with the stored 25 pounds of force (assuming some internal friction, etc.). And none of this includes the additional force from the acceleration.
There is obviously something I'm missing in either my math or my assumptions because this is all too simple.
Regards,
Charlie
Charlie,
First off, check your forum mail box!
Phobias aside, I assume you are familiar with a common lever?
Ye I believe I am; Types 1, 2, and 3
If the falling side of my 'lever' has a 10 pound weight which is located 4 times the distance from the fulcrum as the short end, theoretically, I could balance a 40 pound weight at the opposite end.
A balanced state of ten and forty is feasible, but you also state 'falling' Ten pounds falling on a 4:1 lever will lift more than forty but the height achieved will be less and directly proportional to the time/distance the ten pound weight falls and the length of the lever. Remember lever lift is 1/4 the operating fall distance.
Alternately, I could apply a 40 pound lifting force. So lets say I transfer 25 of those 40 pounds to some form of separate energy storage device (spring, weighted lever).
Work; The transfer of energy from one physical system to another. Physics as we know it states that the force or gravity potential falling is the same as what was used to lift it. This gets rather muddling because you have to reset the falling ten pound mass back to its four times leveraged height of the forty gained. If you have any left (which physics says you will not) then yes it is physically possible to store it. The term is to 'accumulate' if you catch my drift!
If the total weight of my weight carriage is 20 pounds, I should be able to lift this weight with the stored 25 pounds of force (assuming some internal friction, etc.). And none of this includes the additional force from the acceleration.
And this is the second glitch: You cannot use entropic acceleration in a closed system to achieve work. Only the inertial and kinetic force at a given velocity which when tapped will slow it.
There is obviously something I'm missing in either my math or my assumptions because this is all too simple.
I agree! Way to simple! Believe me if were that simple we would have had the energy crises solved and long gone many years ago. But I highly suggest you continue to build you device for two reasons: hands on education and research has been known to lead to accidental discoveries. Not necessarily hazardous to your health. ;D
By the way we need to discuss the grade of plywood your pictures appear to depict! Looks like AC architectural grade. If so it is definitely not cost effective for wheel research unless your access is other than market price.
Regards and keep thinking while you build!
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
Sorry, I missed your question regarding the plywood. I wouldn't say architectural, more like construction grade A-C. Only 5 ply.
I bought a couple of half sheets a few years ago for some project that I don't even remember now and had one full half sheet and another remnant left over which I've been using for this project. To date, my total outlay for this build is $1.38 :) reflecting my yankee frugality.
The neat thing though is the 3/4" thickness fits perfectly between the raised edges of my rollers and keeps it self-aligning.
By the way, I've made another design change eliminating to friction points so that should help.
Regards,
Charlie
Charlie,
Oh well, at least I was right about spotting the A-C grade! I am a firm believer in using MDF (Medium Density Fiber board). Industrial grade, weighing fifty pounds per cubic foot and comes in 49 x 97" sheets. I can get to full 48" disks from it without loss of saw kerf.
If anyone is interested in learning more about MDF. MDO, UDL and OSB type panels let me know and I will post on AB Hammers Gravity wheel help thread.
I worked in my shop last night past midnight on a "design as I build" concept using the 48" split axle open faced test stand. Object was to lift the connected weights from six o'clock with symmetrical mounted smaller levers without creating an imbalance. So far my attempts have been unsuccessful. It did how ever open my eyes to an idea that may be to an advantage on the six foot wheel design. I am not at liberty to discuss that one as it is a partnered project.
Today I had a lengthy phone discussion regarding the pro's and con's of using pneumatics, we discussed cylinder bores travel requirements, PSI X area to lift M a specified distance. I then started doing a follow up on the web looking for availability and cost comparisons.
And that my friend is about all I have to post at present.
Ralph
Below is Bob's invitation for investors to come in. Another typical and cyclical inventor that may follow the same inconclusive path to nothing.
http://newsourceofenergy.com/investors.html
______________________________________
NEW SOURCE OF ENERGY
THE FIRST REAL GREEN SOURCE OF ENERGY
This has been a long journey that started with “What ifâ€. What if it were possible to make a strictly mechanical motor that would continue turning once put into motion due to shifting weights closer and then further away from an axle.
The show I saw on the television said it was impossible, but there had to be a way. Long hours, sleepless nights, perseverance and a very patient wife. I worked out on paper a plan and presented it to my good friend a pilot and engineer. He told me that the laws of conservation of momentum and the first and second laws of thermodynamics said it could not be done, but the plan I had should work. After building and rebuilding, nearly exhausting all my savings, to the point of having to go back to work. I finally saw the motion I was looking for. It was very weak but it would turn continuously by itself. This machine only uses gravity to continue turning.I was sure there was a way to make it stronger and then I had my biggest breakthrough. Much like a truck is turbo charged I applied the same principal to my wheel and saw the increase in power that I was hoping for. I have built eight wheels and each build was based on making engineering changes necessary for longevity, speed, and torque. I had Many sleepless nights pondering what this could mean for our world.
I finally have a pat pending status on my ninth wheel which is the largest of them all. Based on previous builds I am expecting torque ratings of 500 foot pounds and adjustable to 3000 foot pounds. The machine itself will weigh close to four thousand pounds.
In order to maintain one hundred percent control of my machine, I have recently made the decision that with the help of a friend I will move the wheel upon its completion, to a secret location. I will invite a team of engineers from a well known University to examine and document their findings on my machine. I will then Invite investors to view the papers from the University and the machine. The money from the investors will be used to bring the machine into production.
You may respond by e-mail if you interested in attending our private display. Because of the nature of this machine and its potential, only serious investors will be considered.
In your e-mail please include, your name, Contact information, Name of the company and your position. We will be contacting you personally with more details.
Bob
Quote from: unity2zero on December 02, 2008, 05:51:32 AM
Below is Bob's invitation for investors to come in. Another typical and cyclical inventor that may follow the same inconclusive path to nothing.
And you have reason to believe this because........?
Another typical and cyclical inventor that may follow the same inconclusive path to nothing.
And you have reason to believe this because........?
Bob has not, as of yet set a reveal date. Unlike the cyclical that make claims and do not earn the right to be called inventors. Bob states that invited investors will be welcome, only after the machine is verified at a leading University. A college campus which I am proud to say that I may have had some influence in choosing for its historic reputation and notoriety
Therefore I am led to believe that if it does not meet the qualifications claimed and attested by the learned then the investor invitations will not be mailed.
The last I heard, show time is estimated to be by the middle of December. If not and no reasonable excuse is given, then I am considering to start a build. Out of respect and my own integrity I will give the man a chance to put his machine up against his statements. Please do not confuse this thread with others that have consumed so many pages ending in meaningless hype!
@Charlie,
I owe you a lengthy private e-mail. Please be patient with me, I am under doctors orders for a minimum of one weeks complete bed rest. Also at present my LED digital monitor is flashing like a florescent light bulb that is burning out. I can only stand to work with it for a short period. Any input or suggestions as to the cause of this would be appreciated. It is effected by any open application, but acts normal when only desktop is displayed.
Ralph
@Ralph
Bless you
Take your time to recover.
@Jim
Thanks for the friendly words and whishes.
I hope you do good and enjoy life a bit.
About xmas time i will retourn whishes to you and all others.
Have fun and good ideas
helmut
@ralph
No problem. I knew you were under the weather so take your time to recoup!
Regarding your LED (LCD?) monitor, I would try checking the refresh rate under display properties. Maybe a different frequency might help. Or try updating your video card driver. But don't do anything until you are better! :)
Regards,
Charlie
Ralph there's probably something wrong with the backlight which is a CCFL lamp in most lcd monitors. That or the inverter of it, which is just like a starter going bad on fluorescent tubes. You've got two options. Crack it open and try to fix it by replacing the parts. Or buy a new monitor, they should be really cheap lately and get delivered to your door (newegg.com is a good place) But before that check if the problem remains on other pc's to make sure your pc is not the cause which I doubt.
@ Ralph:
I agree with noonespecial about the refresh rate, of course it could be the backlight as well. The refresh rate is easy to check/reset so I would check that first. For some reason, when I downloaded service pack 3 for xp I had to reset my refresh rate back to 85 hz. It came from the factory at 60hz and I could not use it for more than 10 minutes without getting a very bad headache. Then, after my xp download, I started getting headaches again and what do you know? I set it back now and all is well.
Bill
Hip Hip Hooray!
I thank you one all for your input regarding my flashing monitor. It was indeed the 'refresh rate' causing the problem. It kept overriding the default returning to 60 Hertz, Re-downloaded the video driver, set it for maximum of 75 Hertz and all is back to normal.
I wish I could say the same for myself as I am still down with this darn bug. It is now into my inner ear and effecting my equilibrium, ended up on the floor four times yesterday!
To Charlie and LarryC, I am really interested in how your attempts at Bob's design is progressing?
If Bob does not come forth with any updates or a reasonable request for more time by December 15th, I will be looking forward to adding my own collaboration.
Ralph Lortie
I was thinking about this machine of Bob and I think he's using a pump with gravity valves in the middle of the rotor to push the weight up while springs pull back the weight back.
What do you think guys about this idea?
Thanks
Quote from: guruji on December 04, 2008, 04:06:42 PM
I was thinking about this machine of Bob and I think he's using a pump with gravity valves in the middle of the rotor to push the weight up while springs pull back the weight back.
What do you think guys about this idea?
Thanks
That's a possibility I suppose. Especially, considering he has apparently used hydraulics in the past. I just don't know if there would be adequate response time for the valves to work properly.
Regards,
Charlie
Hello Guru,
On the other hand......:)
It could be entirely possible to use a mechanically activated hydraulic valve. If, for instance, we had a rotating cam that depressed a hydraulic valve/cylinder which then activated the short side of a lever and lifted the weights, that could be feasible.
Regards,
Charlie
Hey noonespecial, I think YOU GOT IT!! ;D
Everyone think...remember those old MANUAL brakes on those 1970 era cars, BEFORE they came out with power brakes? Closed loop hydraulic system. Also a vertical hydraulic jack.
A little force multiplies into a lot larger force. Way more than enough to lift a weight AND overcome centrifugal force. So simple it was in front of our noses all the time!
THAT'S GOT to be Bob's secret!l Just make sure the hydraulic system is 100% bled of all air bubbles or you have spongy brakes! You can compress air but you can't compress hydraulic fluid.
Picture this...A closed loop hydraulic system mounted on the revolving arm. The cam is stationary, the hydraulic valve (mounted in the center, near the shaft) is spinning with the arms and it hits (or rides) the cam (mounted on the shaft) every revolution, like a push button, (maybe with a return spring to pull the valve back out)
Whoowaa! Just came to me...even BETTER! Just use 2 valves mounted on the arm 180 degrees apart and plumb up the hydraulic system in an "X" pattern, so when one valve gets depressed by the cam the opposite cylinder retracts and the opposite valve is pushed out INSTANTLY! Plenty of time for the cylinders to set up for the next revolution, as long as there is no trapped air in the hydraulics to be compressed. If there is, then nothing will move. It's a closed loop...the bonus, no leaks!
Those pictures of hydraulic lines, on Bob's machine, make every bit of sense NOW!
Anyone have any reasons why it couldn't work, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Anyone familiar with hydraulic systems? I know I'm not.
Quote from: yaz on December 07, 2008, 01:07:11 AM
Hey noonespecial, I think YOU GOT IT!! ;D
Anyone have any reasons why it couldn't work, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Anyone familiar with hydraulic systems? I know I'm not.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/models/build-pm.htm
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
good luck,
khabe
Quote from: yaz on December 07, 2008, 01:07:11 AM
Hey noonespecial, I think YOU GOT IT!! ;D
Everyone think...remember those old MANUAL brakes on those 1970 era cars, BEFORE they came out with power brakes? Closed loop hydraulic system. Also a vertical hydraulic jack.
A little force multiplies into a lot larger force. Way more than enough to lift a weight AND overcome centrifugal force. So simple it was in front of our noses all the time!
THAT'S GOT to be Bob's secret!l Just make sure the hydraulic system is 100% bled of all air bubbles or you have spongy brakes! You can compress air but you can't compress hydraulic fluid.
Hi Yaz,
What you're suggesting sounds interesting, but I'm not upto scratch with those brakes.
Have you got a link to an explanation or some other info on those type of hydraulic systems?
regards
Dutchy
@hydraulic systems
Wikipedia is always a good resource to explain the basics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_machine
Remember though that just like a common lever there are tradeoffs between force and travel. However, a combination of hydraulics and levers might work. The other advantage is that unlike a lever, you can move the force anywhere you like.
Regards,
Charlie
I'm new to this forum, hello to everybody.
Interesting topic. Has anybody been able to replicate Bob's work?
My opinion
Bob has had 9 prototypes, the latest design has moved to the utilization of hydraulics. My perception is that throughout all earlier attempts, energy produced has not been adequate to support the feasibility of the project... With this in mind, herewith a perception of major components included in the latest prototype.
(I hope that Bob’s design and energy generation is significantly greater than operation consumption.)
Hi All,
Anyone heard any news of Bob's progress with investors and prototype testing? I know that the middle of November he was gearing up for a private disclosure to interested parties.
Hello All,
There will be an update coming soon.
Jon J Hutton
@ Yas,
You must be a young-un! vacuum assist brakes have been around for 15 to 20 years before 1970. Almost as long ago as fur lined bathtubs to keep the water warm.
Before getting to excited about hydraulics I suggest a little background learning in 'Fluid Hammer' Viscosity, and Bernoulli Fluid Dynamics. For a reciprocating application it is not as simple as it looks.
As for the unknown hose in the above picture, I would bet it is the exhaust or return line. On the other hand that which is identified as the supply is laying over that which is meant to turn? As for the valving, we already know he uses or used electric solenoid operated valves. You can see the commutator and contacts in one of the pictures. I would suggest a 3 point version with a common closed neutral position.
For the present, I agree with Jon, give him a little more time or go ahead and build on the premise that you have it figured out. Take my word for it, if it's a winner, we should know shortly. Then again there is already justification for the conspiracy minded to believe the MIB are already present. As for me I am already designing next years model!
Ralph
Quote from: khabe on December 07, 2008, 05:04:06 AM
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/models/build-pm.htm
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
good luck,
khabe
Bob's Free Energy Gravity Wheel will most likely ended up like another Australian "Lutec"
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/230/RipOff0230829.htm
http://www.skeptics.com.au/spoon/2001winners.htm
We have Johann Bessler's magical wheels, Steven Mark's TPU, Stanley Meyer's "Water Cell", Edwin V. Gray's Car Engines, John Christie, the Australian Lutec inventor of the magnetic motors, Steorn's free energy devices, Perendev- Motors and many others.
Non of them are in production because of "suppression" by big oil brothers and CIA? :)
Cheers...!!!!
From Bob's site. Good News??
I Understand the reluctance of many to believe the news of a functioning gravity wheel, but we are on schedule. In keeping with my word my ninth gravity motor, will be completed on or before the 20th of December. The small delay was necessary to ensure the highest standard of quality since this is the machine that will be presented to investors. At that time we will let the gravity motor run for three to four days as a pre-test before starting the validation phase of the worlds first functioning gravity motor.
Quote from: spider4re on December 15, 2008, 07:30:57 AM
From Bob's site. Good News??
I Understand the reluctance of many to believe the news of a functioning gravity wheel, but we are on schedule. In keeping with my word my ninth gravity motor, will be completed on or before the 20th of December. The small delay was necessary to ensure the highest standard of quality since this is the machine that will be presented to investors. At that time we will let the gravity motor run for three to four days as a pre-test before starting the validation phase of the worlds first functioning gravity motor.
Bob should have waited for his "final whistle" when everything has been "perfected", "tested" and "verified" by scientists and investigators and then gives a call to CNN or some prominent TV worldwide news or networks to announce his free-energy gravity motor just like many others had down before him. Lutec from Australia had done it, and automatically he shall be overwhelmed with investors instead of he looking for them.
Hello,
Bielieve me! this is not the final whistle. Just an update.
Jon J Hutton
Quoting part of the news:
Russia could cut supplies
About 80 percent of Russian gas exports to western Europe use pipelines across Ukrainian territory.
A breakdown in a similar gas pricing dispute between Gazprom and Ukraine's Naftogaz at the start of 2006 led to fuel shortages and a price spike across Europe in the dead of winter.
In recent weeks, Ukraine accumulated more than 16 billion cubic meters of gas in underground reservoirs, sufficient to cover Ukrainian gas needs well into 2009, said Oleksander Shlapak, a senior spokesman for President Viktor Yushchenko.
"We give a full guarantee of continued gas deliveries (to Europe)," Shlapak said. "But if there is a cut-off (by Russia) we are prepared to cover our needs from reservoir reserves."
Check out the full news here:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3897729,00.html
In view of the over dependent of Russian gas, would Bob please hasten the production of his wonderful over-unity gravity motors and show the Russians: “Yes, we can..!! and we don't need your gas any more..!!!!" :)
Hello Unity2zero,
You make some very good points.
If I get a directive to launch the black helicopters I'll know he has a working idea. So far nothing.
Bessler007
Cmdr, Blk Helicopter Squadron
MIB IC
Why still all the delays ?
Has somebody finally from the forum living near Bob has visited him and
taken a clear video ?
Our patience is running low now.
Christmas has gone and no news again...
Sad story...
If the word "investors" are involved always greedy people will destroy
the good work...
Stefan,
One delay may be the same as I have encountered for the last month, that is weather, a lot of us has been hit hard with abnormal wind and ice storms this year. I for example could not afford to heat my shop as my utility bills for the house more than doubled their normal cost for this time of year.
QuoteHas somebody finally from the forum living near Bob has visited him and
taken a clear video ?
Bob lives in New Britain a small town near Lindsay Ontario of approximately 365 people (Wikipedia) he is not that hard to find. His machine however is not believed to be at his residence, but being built in a professional machine shop of unknown location.
QuoteOur patience is running low now.
Not all of us! Those who build and have patience, perseverance and persistence shall plod on. I call them the "Doers" We shall continue to design and build, using Bob's basic concept as we know it from postings on the forum (which IMO is incorrect) or continue with our own designs. Either way it builds incentive, excites innovation and exercises our discerning values.
Note that the longest topics on this forum were started by someone stating that they were going to announce a runner on a given date. A stupid thing to do, yet it creates the productive peak of people responding, sharing ideas and bringing small groups together to collaborate.
Those running low on patience are the liberal armchair philosophers who only have the fortitude and ambition to set at their computers and cry "free source" or 'Give me" They show little to no incentive to get off their duff's and do reality research for themselves.
QuoteChristmas has gone and no news again...Sad story...
True, it is sad that he was not able to give the world a Christmas present. On the other hand, as for trial and error research it is just another day that did not prove to bear fruit. Since my involvement in seeking over-unity in various forms I have seen over 50 such Christmas days pass. It is one day of the year, I set my wheel pursuit aside and spend with my family.
QuoteIf the word "investors" are involved always greedy people will destroy the good work...
Not necessarily, the key word is 'Management' set forth by the patent holder. Investors look forward to an equitable return on their investment. They need not have control over what the net profit will be, if not then I agree that we would end up paying more for PM produced power than we now pay for fossil or hydro based power. For some reason beyond my comprehension the utility companies are charging more for renewable source power yet hydro-electric is not one of them.
If Tesla had not sold his patents and soul to guys like Westinghouse and JP Morgan we would be living in a different world.
From Wikipedia:
QuoteThe company pioneered long-distance power transmission and high-voltage transmission. Westinghouse Electric received the rights for the first patent for alternating-current transmission from Nikola Tesla and unveiled the technology for lighting in Great Barrington, Massachusetts.
I say, we simply move on with our lives and give Bob the opportunity to fulfill his premature statement. In the meantime they have been productive by giving me the opportunity to connect with a few of the 'Doers' on this forum.
If you do not have patience, then you are not an inventor willing to seek outside the box and where others have looked. As Tesla once said about Edison, 'He invents by looking for a needle in a hay stack"
Ralph
It is getting cold. Global warming. The weather is even changing in hell.
QuotePerhaps someone is a little weary to prove if his design works.. As God may then swiftly reclaim him once his mission was accomplished? ;-p
Maybe it's time for someone to finish their working design so they can go on a new mission to warm hell back up. I'm sure every little turd would help.
Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB HQ
Quote from: unity2zero on December 14, 2008, 12:13:36 PM
Bob's Free Energy Gravity Wheel will most likely ended up like another Australian "Lutec"
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/230/RipOff0230829.htm
http://www.skeptics.com.au/spoon/2001winners.htm
We have Johann Bessler's magical wheels, Steven Mark's TPU, Stanley Meyer's "Water Cell", Edwin V. Gray's Car Engines, John Christie, the Australian Lutec inventor of the magnetic motors, Steorn's free energy devices, Perendev- Motors and many others.
Agreed. Yet another in a long line of deluded inventors and/or scam artists.
Bob's statement at start of video - 'Uncrank the disk brake'
If you blow up this picture about 200% and look just to the left of the right pillow bearing (blue). You can see a disk rotor, pads and tightening mechanism with a rod going off to the right. You can't see the hand crank but it was out the pic to the right in the video.
Regards, Larry
Hmmm. I think someone made that observation a while back......:)
"Hi AB,
That's true. But what I think Bob is doing is backing off the brake much farther than necessary just to start the machine. Then, quite clearly in the video, tightening it again to control the speed. In fact, this is what he states in the video.
If he is using the brake as a speed control you would want as fine a control as possible. If the caliper is a scissor-type of caliper this would provide the greatest braking leverage and control and yes, many more turns. So again, no discrepancy.
Maybe Bob will correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
Charlie"
Well, if this is true about the brake, (and I hope it is) that would create heat which is wasted power output with his device. If he really has to hold it back, why not connect it to a generator, even a small one, that would put the same load on it as the brake? Of course, maybe he has done that. I am getting skeptical myself and have been for a while but, and this is the honest truth, I really do still hold out hope that he has actually "done it", and if it turns out that he has, I will be the first one to shake his hand. (Well, maybe not the first....)
Bill
Greetings Charlie, Larry and all
I haven't post much but I have still been looking in from time to time. I have had my own fish to fry. But Happy New year to everyone.
Quote from: AB Hammer on December 31, 2008, 10:51:31 PM
Greetings Charlie, Larry and all
I haven't post much but I have still been looking in from time to time. I have had my own fish to fry. But Happy New year to everyone.
Same here AB, Happy New Years to All. I'm especially happy now after just watching the Chick-Fil-A bowl game with LSU and GT. The neighborhood was quiet before, but is rocking with fireworks after the game. Of course, some of this is due to them dam cows expelling gas and igniting it. Spelling out "Eat Mor Chikin" :D
Regards, Larry
Charlie, Larry and all
I will be busy with my new projects and my living for a few weeks so I won't be posting much until I have succeeded or failed. I hope Bob comes through as well or one of you guys figure it out. ;D
Quote from: AB Hammer on January 01, 2009, 07:43:36 PM
Charlie, Larry and all
I will be busy with my new projects and my living for a few weeks so I won't be posting much until I have succeeded or failed. I hope Bob comes through as well or one of you guys figure it out. ;D
AB all the best wishes to you. and all
Keep bringing things forward.
helmut
Hi AB,
Best of luck to you in the new year. We are all waiting patiently for updates from Bob. But please know that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that doesn't necessarily get posted here....at least not yet.
Warm regards,
Charlie
Thanks Guys
I have high hopes for Bob but I am not waiting for him. I have one wheel which I am working on a timing problem. Using my finger to manually time it, it ran around 200 rpm but I found it hard to hold on to. When I removed my finger it started swinging all over the place. It when into chaos mode. That is wright I have been working on a way to control chaos and these so far are the results. I am also building another wheel that the math says 2 positive to 1 negative weight with no keel problem, but only the build will tell the whole story. Well that is what is happening on my side of the ever turning quest.
@All
This is one of Bob's earlier machines, which doesn't have springs on each end like the one in the video and latest picture and the space between the long flat metal plated boards are much wider.
If you blow up picture 1 you can see at about 1" to the rear of the large pulley is a flat metal plate with a hole in the center.
The bottom of this metal plate is welded to the long square metal tubing that connects the two weights together.
The top of this metal plate is attached to a two section rectangular shaped block. On the bottom section of the rectangular shape, both metal rods from the cylinders are connected. At the top section of the rectangular shape is two tubing connections and one goes to each cylinder.
Another tube can be seen at the lower right. It is in between the back side of the unit and the stand. Little else can be seen, but based on other info it is likely coming from the rectangular shaped block to a storage unit to save the force generated by the CF sling capture.
If you blow up picture 2 you can see a wrapped bundle of wires at just left of the pillow bearing, which comes from the bushings on the right of the pillow bearing, going thru the pipe then thru the bundle and to the top back of the flat metal plate with the hole in the center. Can't see more, except for three wires on the side of the rectangular shaped block, but it would seem to go to the rectangular shaped block top section and control the release of force into/out the cylinders and storage unit. The bundle would come across and be held at the top back side of the electrical plate by the plastic strap. The bundle seem to go into the air, but keep in mind the bundle would have to loop up and be able to move 1' to either side to get the 2' of weight movement.
The bundle is much larger then needed for the three wires from the commutator. So there must be a tube or tubing going to/from the block and into the center pipe thru to the other side and coming out to the storage unit on the other side.
At the top left is a clear image of the tubing. Seem to be nylon reinforced. Needed for the extreme flinging around as can be seen at Bob's site video #2, which has the large pulley as shown in the pictures.
Also notice the large massive block at the end, which is probably used for momentum assist, while the air pressure fights the lifting. He may not have had the cam and lever at this time. His comment from his post at #456:
"George, a good friend of mine, who was an engineer since 1945 was very interested in what I had done so far and suggested to try the cam and leaver mechanism that I used in the unit in the short clip."
I've included a drawing to assist with the concept.
Regards, Larry
Larry and Charlie
I have posted one of my calculating grids and I believe you would like a copy
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6474.new#new
Bob, what are you waiting for? 20th of Dec. 2008 had passed. Christmas of 2008 had passed. New Year of 2009 has come and gone. Please show up your over-unity accelerating gravity wheel. The Russian has shut the gas valve supply to Europe and looks like oil prices are going up again. If your over-unity gravity wheel works with an abundant of free energy supply, investors will line in queue with their tons of monies. You don't have to wait and advertise for them. Europe and North America are getting very cold. Many are economically broke and they need cheaper form of energy for heating like what you have promised. :)
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/
Changes to Bob's site.
COME ON BOB! GIVE US SOMETHING. A VIDEO MAYBE?!?!?
LOL @ "the statics of the website is changing from an information based website to a manufacturing and marketing theme."
Are we coming to the closing end of this thread?
Bob, where are you?
Quote from: unity2zero on January 21, 2009, 09:27:16 AM
Are we coming to the closing end of this thread?
Bob, where are you?
Not even close to the end, there is a lot of people still working on the concept. Keep in mind, it much easier to comment, then to do actual testing.
@All,
My next step to creating a Bob machine replication, would have been to add the pneumatic setup. But since this seemed a rather expensive addition, I decided to determine just how much addition force is coming from the Centrifugal slam capture. For those that don’t know, that is the impact force resulting when the connected weights are at the 12+1†point and CF slings them out to the end. After all, it is the only force that could make the machine a self-runner.
So I setup a unit mainly to test CF sling capture force.
The Cf rotor is shown in the Cf test bed rotor comments picture. It is relatively simple, the twine with a swivel and thread thru the center eye and is attached to the weight box. The stop block keeps it at 12+1â€. The unit is brought up to 50 rpm (as Bob stated) and released at 12:00. then it slams into the Irwin clamp with the bungee. Then the digital scale is used to determine how much force it takes to get the bungee to that position. I also attached the weight box to the Irwin clamp and brought it up to 50 rpm to see how much force occurs without the slam.
With 2.7 lbs for each weight box:
CF slam 15 10 lbs/ounces
CF static 5 5 lbs/ounces
With 4.7 lbs for each weight box:
CF slam 25 4 lbs/ounces
CF static 7 3 lbs/ounces
The CF static values are very close to my previous post of the CF 1-2 spreadsheet calculations. Of course using a hand held digital fish scale is not the most accurate, but close enough to see the advantage of the slam and the increase with weight.
However the slam didn’t occur unit the 5:00 O'clock position give or take a half-hour.
Why is the slam so late? This is to late for much gravity assist.
I think you have to go back to my previous analysis post of Bob's older machine with only the air cylinders and in his movie where the weights are up at the top when starting and don't sloppily pop up to the top again until it slows down at the end. He has the extra air pressure push on the weights that I don't, which would cause it to go out earlier at 50 rpm, hopefully at 2-3, otherwise you would get very little gravity assist.
Bob’s statement: ‘The air cylinders I use as a shock absorber, similar to that in a car and it also stores a bit of energy that locks the 2 weights together almost at the bottom’ (or top).
Then, I tried a test using a very long bungee to simulate the air cylinder and with 4.7lbs weights it slammed at 2:00, great. The bungee was not the same as Bob's air cylinder power curve, but probably within 50% and the best I can do at this time. At rest, the bungee overrode gravity to within 2 inches of where it would have hit the Irwin clamp.
The CF test 1 picture shows my first test attempt with an AC induction motor. It did not have enough torque at low rpm’s to turn the rotor. Just showing the failures to help others.
So in CF test 3 picture I am using a Ryobi battery powered drill motor to rotate the unit to 50 rpm’s. It has more than enough torque. The drill attachment structure looks terrible, but worked great,
get er done. It is connected to a full wave bridge to convert to DC and the Variac.
Regards, Larry
@LarryC,
great tests,
could you please post a video on youtube
to show your tests with a few voice comments,
so we can excatly follow you, what you are doing ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: unity2zero on January 21, 2009, 10:27:16 PM
Are we coming to the closing end of this thread?
Bob, where are you?
Not even close to the end, there is a lot of people still working on the concept. Keep in mind, it much easier to comment, then to do actual testing.
I agree with Larry, those intent on seeing this through have not gave up or are we waiting for Bob. The longer he takes the probability of his machine producing becomes more questionable. Good reason for those wishing to pursue the concept to add their own innovative ideas.
Larry is doing a bang up job of researching this on an analytical bases and deserves a kudos or two. He has shown us that Bobs machine relies more on the pneumatic cylinders than first lead to believe. I can verify his findings and do so without question. I performed similar tests in a lessor analytical fashion over 2-1/2 years ago. The results were the same.
CF alone will not pull vertical on a sliding cross bar that is 1" over center providing the weights on both ends are balanced. There are two ways of using the term 'gravity assist', in this case it is to pull the weight out sooner so it can drop farther and add radial acceleration. The only way to achieve this is with a driving force such as an air driven cylinder.
The question remains; can the machine produce enough air to self-sustain itself. A runner would be just that, it would not have to produce surplus power to re-invent the wheel!
Bessler stated it a little different; The flail wants to be with the thresher, not with the scholar.
Source: Perpetual Motion: An Ancient Mystery Solved?, John Collins, Permo Publications, 1997.
Ralph
Ralph and Larry are so correct.
We will never have a wheel unless it is built. So if you have an idea, put it to the physical test. Build it. ;)
@All,
I'm looking to improvise some pneumatic cylinders or find some cheap ones for further testing. I know how to convert Bicycle pumps and Screen door closers. But some of the cylinders will need a stroke of 24" or longer.
Any help?
Thanks, Larry
Hay Larry
I remember over at Tractor Supply CO. TSC some hydraulic cylinders that might do the job.
This guy has a good start! All he needs is an air cylinder, a rotary a pneumatic fitting and a trigger valve or solenoid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e77eOgylsBc
Vince.
Quote from: AB Hammer on January 26, 2009, 07:42:32 PM
Hay Larry
I remember over at Tractor Supply CO. TSC some hydraulic cylinders that might do the job.
Thanks, AB I'll check it out.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: vince on January 26, 2009, 07:45:14 PM
This guy has a good start! All he needs is an air cylinder, a rotary a pneumatic fitting and a trigger valve or solenoid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e77eOgylsBc
Vince.
Hi Vince,
Thanks for the laugh. Kung fu gravity machine ;D.
Didn't know you were still around. Haven't seen post from you since you're excellent testing results on Thane's macnine.
Regards, Larry
Larry,
You will smile when you click on this link! They have one of the best hydraulics section in their catalog that I have ever run across.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?D=pillow%20block%20bearings&No=0&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntt=pillow%20block%20bearings&N=0&storeId=6970&Ntk=All
Long link but you can shorten it to www.northerntool.com If you are not interested in bearings.They list 122 hydraulic cylinders. I still believe for our purpose we can build them a lot cheaper.
Ralph
Hi Larry;
Yea, I'm still around. That's nice work you've done with your testing. Keep us posted with your progress. I've been watching this thread since it first started and was hoping to see some more video from Bob but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
I do have a thought about shuttling the weight back and forth on the slides.
In all the early literature about E. Gray and his motor it refers to the demo he used to do for people with a high voltage capacitor discharge through a electro magnet which gave an explosive force to the magnet that he held to it. Rail guns do essentially the same thing. In the
fuelless engine plans they recommend using an electromagnet with capacitor discharge to fire the weight across the slide. This discharge could come from a battery source with little amperage draw and be easily recharged by a generator. Having an electromagnet at each end or opposing each other and acting against a magnet or metal spool would be much easier to construct than a pneumatic cylinder arrangement. One could have two banks of capacitors charging and firing to their own respective sides as they passed a trigger point.
Is this a plausible idea or am I missing something?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Regards
Vince
Quote from: hartiberlin on January 25, 2009, 09:14:00 PM
@LarryC,
great tests,
could you please post a video on youtube
to show your tests with a few voice comments,
so we can excatly follow you, what you are doing ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanks Stefan and I appreciate your kind comment, but as I've stated before I will do a video
if and
when I get a runner. This unit is just a simple, well explained and documented CF slam capture testbed, which I will be using to fine tune the CF slam capture. Then that information will be applied to the possible runner.
I think you and maybe others need to understand my testing situation. I live in a sea air environment, which is extremely corrosive. I only have a small shop under my stairwell to store items, but a large area under my house (up on pilings) to test. It is in a relatively warm area of the US (south Louisiana), but being next to open water and high winds, it has a high wind chill value in the fall, winter, spring time and many sea fog days. So I have to design units so that I can mount to the supporting structure and remove from that structure in the same day or they would rust solid in no time. When I have the time and the correct weather to do this, I usually have all my test planned, so I don't want to have other activities to deter me from my goal of replicating Bob's machine. This is not an excuse, just the facts that I live with.
Bottom line, It is not a simple task for me to go out and shoot a video of the test unit as one would normally expect. The unit is not there unless I set it up, which on some units takes me quiet a while and then there is the take down time after the testing. But trust me, a video will be my top priority if I ever get a runner.
However, I do have time to answer some questions, if my test unit explanations are lacking in information.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: vince on January 26, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Hi Larry;
Yea, I'm still around. That's nice work you've done with your testing. Keep us posted with your progress. I've been watching this thread since it first started and was hoping to see some more video from Bob but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
I do have a thought about shuttling the weight back and forth on the slides.
In all the early literature about E. Gray and his motor it refers to the demo he used to do for people with a high voltage capacitor discharge through a electro magnet which gave an explosive force to the magnet that he held to it. Rail guns do essentially the same thing. In the
fuelless engine plans they recommend using an electromagnet with capacitor discharge to fire the weight across the slide. This discharge could come from a battery source with little amperage draw and be easily recharged by a generator. Having an electromagnet at each end or opposing each other and acting against a magnet or metal spool would be much easier to construct than a pneumatic cylinder arrangement. One could have two banks of capacitors charging and firing to their own respective sides as they passed a trigger point.
Is this a plausible idea or am I missing something?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Regards
Vince
Hi Vince,
Thanks, your ideas are very plausible, but I don't want to use any electrical or electronics, other then to control the pneumatic control valves. Anything else and the ever present looming hoard of naysayers, skeptics, and spooks will plummet down upon us and attempt to pick our bones clean. I don't have the time or the temperment to put up with their nonsense.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: rlortie on January 26, 2009, 09:07:41 PM
Larry,
You will smile when you click on this link! They have one of the best hydraulics section in their catalog that I have ever run across.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?D=pillow%20block%20bearings&No=0&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntt=pillow%20block%20bearings&N=0&storeId=6970&Ntk=All
Long link but you can shorten it to www.northerntool.com If you are not interested in bearings.They list 122 hydraulic cylinders. I still believe for our purpose we can build them a lot cheaper.
Ralph
Thanks Ralph,
You are right, I am smiling about the variety, but not the prices.
Let's get cheaper! Can anybody help?
Regards, Larry
Larry,
You Want Cheap!! Walmart USA (I live on the boarder) and I was just over there the other day and saw that they had steel bicycle pumps
1 1/2 " bore by about 20" stroke for $8.95. The shaft was only 3/8" dia. but I' sure you could get around that.
Vince
Quote from: vince on January 27, 2009, 12:12:38 AM
Larry,
You Want Cheap!! Walmart USA (I live on the boarder) and I was just over there the other day and saw that they had steel bicycle pumps
1 1/2 " bore by about 20" stroke for $8.95. The shaft was only 3/8" dia. but I' sure you could get around that.
Vince
Thanks Vince,
3/8" is not a problem and it doesn't have to be that cheap, but I need the 24" or better stroke to throw the weights across.
Larry
Anyone heard from Bob lately?
@All,
Below is a drawing of a possible design concept of Bob’s self-runner.
The drawing view is looking at the unit from the front /back with the main cross member transparent. The components are not shown in final front to back order for clarity. All cylinders are pneumatic.
The main concept is to capture the CF sling force with short stroke wide cylinders in the middle and short springs on end near 2:00 and use the captured forces to lift the weights up to the top with the cam and cam rollers (purple), springs, long cylinders and CF force assistance.
From my testing (reply #713) and it should be obvious, the longer the sling length before any pneumatic/spring resistance the greater the CF sling force captured, thus the need for the 24" or greater is just to allow a longer sling length. The testing showed that the CF sling capture force was 3 times plus greater than just the CF force at that radius, weight, and rpm. I think the CF sling capture force can be improved with more research and refinements.
Also, the impact force (reduction in momentum over time) is increased as the length of the absorbing spring and cylinder is shortened. Of course, this has to be balanced with the durability of the machine. The resistance should gradually increase to reduce shock, which both do.
Bob's latest machine picture could be close to this design with only the accumulator, weights, springs, and plumbing seen on front.
Regards, Larry
@All,
Stormy morning, so I wanted document and pass on an earlier observation.
Bob stated:
The air cylinders I use as a shock absorber, similar to that in a car and it also stores
a bit of energy that locks the 2 weights together almost at the bottom. (or edge)
And
A locking pin is used to release the springs.(springs have to be compressed for the first revolution) Springs
The picture is showing three snapshots from Bob’s video.
The first is before the unit is running at 12:00. Notice the top of the connecting bar is above the blue screen. The spring are compressed and locked, so the air cylinder is supplying enough force to offset the weights plus extra to create the lift to the edge. Let’s assume the extra force is just enough to lift the weights from the midpoint + 1 to the top in 1/4 of a second.
The second is while the unit is running full speed and at 12:00. Notice the top of the connecting bar is farther down, probably at the midpoint + 1 position. Because the unit is spinning at 50 rpm and CF1 â€" CF2 force is very small at this point, the lift to the top cannot occur until later, using the combined force of the air cylinder and the CF sling effect.
The third is at the end after stopping at 12:00. Notice the top of the connecting bar is just below the top of the blue screen. The springs probably didn’t get latched, so the air cylinder is in equilibrium with the spring. The real proof that shows this is to look at the end of the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lD_65ggChs when the unit is stopping; there is a sloppy bouncing effect while the air cylinder and spring reach equilibrium. You can also see more lifting effect as soon as he starts cranking the brake.
Regards, Larry
Larry and forum visitors, what do you make of the following?
(note, pls consider the CF in fluid transfer)
Hi worker,
Your machine would work, but it doesn't appear to be OU, as it would be using external pump pressure to lift the fluid to the top. The energy gained by rotating to the bottom would be less than the energy used in the pump to lift the fluid to the top do to various losses.
I've included a screen capture of your drawing using a freeware package from Cnet called ScreenHunter 5.0 to change it to a jpg file. It is more effective to let people view directly, without clicking on the link at the bottom. Many people don't even notice the bottom link.
Regards, Larry
Thought this might be interesting. Could this be used in assisting bobs machine?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/regenerative-shock-absorbers-developed-by-team-at-mit/
It is sad that finally, Bob's claim of his over-unity self propelling gravity wheel has come to nothing. Sigh.....!!!!!! :'(
@All,
If Bob's machine is a self-runner then it must compress a volume of air into the receiver/accumulator which is >= the volume of air released from the receiver.
When 2 cubic feet of air is compressed into 1 then the psi is 15 or a multiple of 2. The formula is (Gauge PSI + 14.7) / 14.7 to find the multiple at different Gauge PSI. So 20 psi is (20 + 14.7) / 14.7 or a multiple of 2.36.
I will be using 15 PSI in my examples as it is easier to demonstrate.
The drawing shows the long outer cylinder and the short inner cylinder.
First the cam and spring would do the first 4 inch of lift. Then the air would be switched on for the 4 inch to 13 inch move. The air would be shut off and locked from escaping at this point, so it would still be pressuring the cylinder, until the Check Valve in can open. The 9 inch movement actually uses about 11 inches of compressed air because the 4 inch movement drew in air at Atmospheric pressure.
Then the CF slam capture will start compressing the air in the short cylinder. At 3 inch slide in, the PSI will be 15. Then the receiver check valve will open and allow the compressed air to return to the receiver.
The spreadsheet show the supporting calculations and the CF multiplying factor required, which is 4X in this case. This is break even with no losses, so it would need to be higher.
In this case if a 24" X 2" cylinder was used to compress the air. A full 24" stroke would give you 15 PSI at 12" and the rest of the stroke would recover the air lost. Since that stroke would not work for this machine a 6" X 4" cylinder with the the same Cu In is used. Shorter stroke, but four times the force is required at midpoint (3 inch). I also think that 20 PSI is more likely used with a compression factor of 2.36. It would increase the diameter of the short cylinder and the force required.
Can a CF capture force factor of 5X or greater be achieved, I only got 3X + in my previous testing? Yes, more weight, higher RPM, longer arm, etc. Some of these may have timing consequence, so only thru additional testing can it be known.
I will need a sturdier CF testbed slide to add more weight, so when I get the time???
I included the xls if you wish to see the formulas. But keep in mind that other PSI need to be adjusted for the compression factor and the distance to PSI. For example 30 PSI has a compression factor of 3.04, so 30 PSI wouldn't be reached until 4 inch on the 6 inch stroke.
Another interesting value is the Time in seconds at 12:00 and 3:00, But keep in mind it is the time with a non rotating unit.
Regards, Larry
Anyone heard from Bob lately? I was just wondering what was the status of his manufacturing endeavors as announced last November.
Quote from: Xaverius on March 02, 2009, 03:31:08 PM
Anyone heard from Bob lately? I was just wondering what was the status of his manufacturing endeavors as announced last November.
I received an email from bob last week and he informed me that he is still doing testing, but no word on when the machine will be ready. Fingers crossedXX
spider4re
Thanks for updating us.
Recovers? Bobs on crack . He has nothing , hes been asked about 15 times for diagrams and the like and never answers.
Quote from: Sataur on May 31, 2007, 04:58:16 PM
Its unfortunate to hear about his accident. Hopefully it was merely an accident and not an act of aggression on someone else's part.
Hopefully he recovers well and soon!
Cheers!
****************************************************************************
New Source of Energy
Because of the Machine going into production in the very near
future, the statics of the website is changing from an information based
website to a manufacturing and marketing theme.
****************************************************************************
Bob's perpetual gravity-free-energy generating wheels are going into production in the very near future? How long is "in the very near future"?
Quote from: unity2zero on March 13, 2009, 11:29:10 AM
****************************************************************************
New Source of Energy
Because of the Machine going into production in the very near
future, the statics of the website is changing from an information based
website to a manufacturing and marketing theme.
****************************************************************************
Bob's perpetual gravity-free-energy generating wheels are going into production in the very near future? How long is "in the very near future"?
Hopefully VERY soon!
Quote from: spider4re on March 03, 2009, 08:38:15 AM
I received an email from bob last week and he informed me that he is still doing testing, but no word on when the machine will be ready. Fingers crossedXX
Spider4re,
I am also wishing for Bob's success, but after working with parts of his machine, it would seem a very difficult task to develop a practical production machine.
Just think, a 24/7 energy producer that would have to last at least 5 years without mechanical problems. That would be a minimum required by the new big money investors. I know it is big money operation only, as I asked Bob to consider many small investors instead (less than 10,000) and he didn't respond.
So a 8' X 4' X 6' machine, weighting 3850 lbs with 3000 ft. lbs of torque. It would take a major engineering team to complete this design in several years. The out of balance problem along would crack most home foundations.
I have been very busy with other personnel problems for the last month or so, mainly with a very seriously illness of a close relative, so I have not made any new improvement on my CF testbed slide. However, I do hope to improve it if I get the time.
I'm glad to see that a few individuals have picked up the spreadsheet .XLS at post 736. Maybe some of you can continue the research and apply to a testbed, until I can get back in place.
Since Bob doesn't want to fully disclose the machines operations, our research may be the only way that we learn in our lifetime as to how it works.
Regards, Larry
`
Larry wrote;
QuoteSo a 8' X 4' X 6' machine, weighting 3850 lbs with 3000 ft. lbs of torque. It would take a major engineering team to complete this design in several years. The out of balance problem along would crack most home foundations.
A rotating machine with a radius of 8' and 6' long; what does the 4' represent? Its stroke is less than 4' yet we are told it will deliver 3,000 ft.lbs of torque. Has any one done the math on this???
I may be wrong but that is the equivalent of 6.52 6 cylinder Cummins engines connected in series rated at 460 ft lbs each at 1,400 rpm as used in the Dodge Ram pickups.
Or a single turbocharged engine of 38.46 liters (2,346.97cubic") Any internal combustion engine that delivers 1 ft lb of torque for every 1.28 pounds of weight would be a very favorable thing to have. IMO A gravity driven machine of this capability is either a pipe dream or a deliberate falsification.
Reference:
http://www.fordiesel.com/dodge/dodge-diesel-cummins-engine-specs.php
Sorry but I do not nor have I ever put any faith in Bob's torque claim, and true it will take one hell of an engineering team some time to substantiate this claim. I do not expect to see it transpire in my lifetime.
Do the math and prove me wrong please! In the meantime I am not wasting my time in anticipation of such a conservative force driven machine.
Ralph
From the Abeling gravity wheel web site http://mooieenergie.nl/.
Q: Where does the extra energy come from?
A: The weights are applied two by two: one weight is pushing/falling, the other one has to be lifted. Due to the invention of the dual lifting system , the falling/pushing weight will hardly be hindered by the weight that has to be lifted.
In the topleft of the system the weight is accelerated (like with shot put). The weight is moving faster than the system, and as the system catches the weight it is propelled forward. The path of the weights in the system is determined up front so the weights are always in a fixed position relative to eachother and that will reduce the drag of the lifted weight on the falling/pushing weight. The system will start rotating from any position. Extra force is generated in the lower left of the system and on top it is transferred to the system itself, generating the extra energy. If the system would fail to catch the propelled weight, the weight would be ejected from the system with force.
It sounds like the Abeling's gravity wheel is using the same centrifugal capture force to make the wheel run, but with a different design from Bob's. The weight power plant is expected to be completed by May, 2009. If Bob doesn't produce a commercial runner soon, he may end up being overshadowed. Of course these estimates are usually behind schedule.
Regards, Larry
Okay, I am trying now to simulate BOB´s machine.
Here is a start.
The device is not yet fully complete.
Maybe somebody can join in to complete it, cause the next few days,
I have some paper work to do and not much time for the forum.
Regards, Stefan.
Attached a picture and the WM2D file.
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 15, 2009, 10:47:30 PM
Okay, I am trying now to simulate BOB´s machine.
Here is a start.
The device is not yet fully complete.
Maybe somebody can join in to complete it, cause the next few days,
I have some paper work to do and not much time for the forum.
Regards, Stefan.
Attached a picture and the WM2D file.
Thanks for trying Stefan,
I don't have WM2D, but I'll be glad to help anybody with any physical specifications based on my previous analyst.
Regards, Larry
i haven't read every single page in this huge thread (but i did read most of them) so i'm not sure if this was mentioned but.. if you're looking for some hydraulic hoses for this thing, i've had good experience in the past with a company called Gooding Rubber. here's a link to their site: hydraulic hoses (http://www.goodingrubber.com/)
hope that helps.
bob is still alive. he made some changes to his site...don't get too excited...
Quote from: spider4re on April 17, 2009, 12:26:23 PM
bob is still alive. he made some changes to his site...don't get too excited...
Wow, Bob's machine is becoming the monster that ate the house - 10' L X 4' W X 12' H. It seems the production version is requiring a lot more rework than he thought. No telling how long it will take to get to production. There is no way that a machine that size could be affordable by the average home owner.
Just think, if he would have freely shown the working machine with his patent pending protection, then sold the book and movie rights for the story of the man who changed the world's energy systems. Now Sjack may beat him to it.
@jeffm2009,
Thinks for the info.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on April 17, 2009, 06:35:26 PM
Just think, if he would have freely shown the working machine with his patent pending protection, then sold the book and movie rights for the story of the man who changed the world's energy systems. Now Sjack may beat him to it.
Most of these "inventors" seem to lack one thing in common, which is intelligence. Isn't that ironic?
Quote from: broli on April 17, 2009, 08:55:35 PM
Most of these "inventors" seem to lack one thing in common, which is intelligence. Isn't that ironic?
Not really. Like tends to sit at like.
I'm disappointed with Bob's unwillingness to share detailed plans.. we still don't know if it was 100% self powered. Larry, thanks for all the work you put into trying to crack Bob's design.
Tesla
Quote from: broli on April 17, 2009, 08:55:35 PM
Most of these "inventors" seem to lack one thing in common, which is intelligence. Isn't that ironic?
Yes, they seem to get lost on the business end, but they also are very hardworking with dogged determination, tenacity and a willingness to ignore the scientific status quo.
@4tesla,
I'm disappointed with Bob's unwillingness to share detailed plans.. we still don't know if it was 100% self powered. Larry, thanks for all the work you put into trying to crack Bob's design.Thanks Tesla,
I'm not finished yet, if I get pass some current personal responsibilities I hope to attempt more.
My several earlier failed testing version due to my lack of understanding and later the positive results from the CF sling capture testbed and analyst of Bob's earlier designs has been a true learning path for me. Sjack's design and comments has added to that understanding. I hope this accumulated knowledge will lead me to a breakthru, but let us all wish the best for Bob and Sjack to get it done for the world.
Regards, Larry
First off, I never heard such a bunch of self-righteous, entitlement-pigs as some of you on this forum. Inventors are pretty damn smart(er)
than the lot of you and your peanut-gallery comments. Knowledge is only a "divine right" to those who discover, and who they CHOOSE to share it with; that is karma, AND reality. Bob isn't obligated to prove anything to you, that he chose to share his work in no way means any of you are deserving of it. Bob is absolutely entitled to make money from his idea, for doing the hands-on R&D work, unlike yourselves.
Someone in earlier posts mentioned "Open Source is the way we work around here." ...but apparently not very well or effectively. Call yourselves the "gimme" generation.
Holly crap! This sounds a bit judgmental to me. I hope you did not intend to include "all" of us in your comment.
Bill
@Thrival it's good to hear from someone as successful as you. Wait a second... who were you again? This isn't a bean grinder we're talking about. It is FREEEEEEEEEEE energy, did that get to you? In this corrupt capitalistic system money is everything so yes making some money out of it is not a sin. But how long will this system last. But to top it offf that "some" money is not most these poor inventors are after. They want to become millionaires over night. Or at least think they know what it takes.
This is their biggest mistake. Being completely oblivious of what is happening around the world. Or what will happen to the world. This is no time for playing these shit throwing games. We need to get these machines out and fast before something happens and will be left with nothing at all. If a solar storm hit earth and damages the entire electrical grid then we will see what money can do. I don't think you can get any more selfish than these inventors. So far I shared every idea I had and helped people improve some of their ideas or helped with other skills I have but once I start talking about others doing the same I get lynched.
Quote from: broli on April 24, 2009, 06:21:54 AM
@Thrival it's good to hear from someone as successful as you. Wait a second... who were you again? This isn't a bean grinder we're talking about. It is FREEEEEEEEEEE energy, did that get to you? In this corrupt capitalistic system money is everything so yes making some money out of it is not a sin. But how long will this system last. But to top it offf that "some" money is not most these poor inventors are after. They want to become millionaires over night. Or at least think they know what it takes.
This is their biggest mistake. Being completely oblivious of what is happening around the world. Or what will happen to the world. This is no time for playing these shit throwing games. We need to get these machines out and fast before something happens and will be left with nothing at all. If a solar storm hit earth and damages the entire electrical grid then we will see what money can do. I don't think you can get any more selfish than these inventors. So far I shared every idea I had and helped people improve some of their ideas or helped with other skills I have but once I start talking about others doing the same I get lynched.
The big question is who are the lynchers? What do they want?
Keep sharing Broli, I highly appreciate your input and to me that is what a public forum is all about.
You should be proud and do not worry
Society will change, there is a lot you can do as an individual to stop playing "their" power game. They can only win if you follow "their" rules and "their" paths using "their" tools. Disconnect and they cannot touch you anymore.
AZ
Depending how a person might measure, I'm more successful than you might guess. Like I'd worry about being "recognized" by the likes of,
or proving myself to you communists. Yes, free energy to those with the IQ ("what it takes") to figure it out. You wanna reform the patent
system, have at it. On the other hand your ingraciousness toward creative people really doesn't endear, win points or "reform" anyone, least of
all yourselves. Yes there is a God, yes He's in control, no you needn't fret, and none of it will fix His Plans. You simply operate from SO
MANY false premises.
We will all burn by the purifying fire! :o
Unless we challenge ourselves at every level ( don't be hypocrites ). 8)
Be honest with ever action you can. ;D
LEARN~! >:( >:( >:( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And above all, love your life! :-*
This should be more than enough for anyone to not sucking and being a devious fraud!
Communists?
Uhuh. Check my signature.
Quote from: thrival on April 24, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
Depending how a person might measure, I'm more successful than you might guess. Like I'd worry about being "recognized" by the likes of,
or proving myself to you communists. Yes, free energy to those with the IQ ("what it takes") to figure it out. You wanna reform the patent
system, have at it. On the other hand your ingraciousness toward creative people really doesn't endear, win points or "reform" anyone, least of
all yourselves. Yes there is a God, yes He's in control, no you needn't fret, and none of it will fix His Plans. You simply operate from SO
MANY false premises.
::) ::) ::)
patent of KOSTOFF ROBERT US2009051169 (A1)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=CA&NR=2639107A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090224&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=CA&NR=2639107A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090224&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
Nice find oscar!!
Quote from: oscar on May 11, 2009, 11:31:58 AM
patent of KOSTOFF ROBERT US2009051169 (A1)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=CA&NR=2639107A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090224&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=CA&NR=2639107A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090224&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
Oscar, thanks for the offline message. I tried to respond but offline messages system at ou seems to be having a problem.
Anyway, I did read the patent and printed the Canadian version out to review as it has larger drawings.
It seems like it is just a better version of his older model that I posted about. One two way cylinder instead of two and the pneumatic control does not move with the weights. No lift cam or lever, just external air to convert pneumatic force into electrical. No claim of OU. My version that can store some of the CF slam force would work better.
His drawings have a couple of problems with rod 52. The explosion (Fig 2) doesn't show the pivot hole in 52. Then in Fig 5,6 it seems that it would lock up as it pivots around with no sliding slot in 52 where it connects to the weight. I didn't review the others.
All in all, rather disappointing, as I am always willing to take a man at his word, until proven wrong. But it appears Bob has presented deceptive information to us at OU.
And to all those that have said so, you were right.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on May 27, 2009, 05:48:14 PMAll in all, rather disappointing, as I am always willing to take a man at his word, until proven wrong. But it appears Bob has presented deceptive information to us at OU.
And to all those that have said so, you were right.
Regards, Larry
Bob's "New accelerating gravity wheel" had taken everyone posting in this forum for a spin ;D ;D
why would he take the time and $$ to get a patent lawyer, create all the patent documentation and pay all the fees? Looking for sucker investors??
I think there may still be something coming from that guy.
I periodically check bobs website to see if anything changes and today something changed. Bob is still alive and may surprise us...
Quote from: spider4re on January 27, 2010, 11:36:32 PM
I periodically check bobs website to see if anything changes and today something changed. Bob is still alive and may surprise us...
What changed? Looks the same to me.
4Tesla
He just added the "New machine to be released soon"
New video on Bob,s site. Monster gravity machine and generator. It must shake the whole neighborhood.
Regards, Larry
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/
Quote from: LarryC on January 30, 2010, 05:12:20 PM
New video on Bob,s site. Monster gravity machine and generator. It must shake the whole neighborhood.
Regards, Larry
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/
Greetings Larry
I see what you mean. :o I wonder how long it will hold up with its own structure.
I finally got finished with my armour jam due to the move and pneumonia. The new shop is wonderful and I am now getting some wheel work done myself. I'll call you later.
Alan
Quote from: AB Hammer on January 30, 2010, 07:59:51 PM
A Larry
I see what you mean. :o I wonder how long it will hold up with its own structure.
I finally got finished with my armour jam due to the move and pneumonia. The new shop is wonderful and I am now getting some wheel work done myself. I'll call you later.
Alan
Hi AB,
Glad you're well. I had attended the Renaissance Festival in Hammond, La around Dec, 7, 2009. Hoping to run into you and your work, but I don't think you were there. Seen others with some ability. However, it was very entertaining, had a great time, and would recommend a Renaissance festival to all, if it is in their area.
Bob's video of his new machine is of very low video quality and dark. Seems like, spend a fortune on pneumatic equipment and nothing on a cheap regular quality camcorder. Of course, he is still using pneumatic input to make the gravity wheel work.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on January 30, 2010, 05:12:20 PM
New video on Bob,s site. Monster gravity machine and generator. It must shake the whole neighborhood.
Regards, Larry
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/
@Larry
I do not think that this Video is the latest version.
It might well be that he keeps us entertaint until he finnished his presentation video.
hopefully
Greetings Larry
I forgot all about that ren-fair But I was sick at the time as well. We have got to get together sometime.
Alan
Quote from: helmut on January 31, 2010, 05:42:32 PM
@Larry
I do not think that this Video is the latest version.
It might well be that he keeps us entertaint until he finnished his presentation video.
hopefully
Where is the video ?
It is not anymore on homepage.
Is it available on youtube ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Greetings Stefan
I have a copy of it and it will be on its way to you in a few minutes. It will be on your harti address.
Alan
Stefan
did you get the video?
Alan
Alan, I don't think that Stefan himself doesn't have the video. It seems to me he's wondering why the video disappeared from Bob Kostoff's site. I'm wondering too. What happened to that interesting project?
Omnibus
OK
My guess is that it broke from all the shaking it was doing. Some of the construction I saw in the video looked inadequate to work with something so heavy. If it did bust apart, I hope no one got hurt.
Alan
Okay, here is the movie I got emailed.
Many thanks for this.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=379
It seems the audio channel was not recorded
or is it just my new codec setup not playing any audio ?
Looking forward to see more of this great machine from Bob.
Many thanks for making this available.
Regards, Stefan.
So I went to Bob's page, which is pretty plain at the moment, and highlighted the bottom of the page. This is the text that appeared:
"gravity powered wheel,gravity powered wheel,gravity powered wheelenergy,free,gravity powered,generator,hydrogen,alternate source,electricity,magnets,water wheel,machine,perpetual motion,new source,torque,wheel,electrolysis,energy source,power,windmill,wind mill,
New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy New source of energy,new source of energy, source of energy,new source of energy New source of energy,new source of energy, source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy,fuel cell, fuel cell, fuel cell,l fuel cell, fuel cell,fuel cell, fuel cell, fuel cell,l fuel cell, fuel cell, fuel cell , new source of energy, new source energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen of energy, New source of energy,new source of energy, New source of energy, new source of energy, New source of energy, new source of energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen energy, New source of energy, new source of energy, New source of energy, new source of energy energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogenhydrogen energy free fuel cars gas green energy cheep energy nuclear energy hydro
energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen, energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen, energy, gravity powered, generator, hydrogen, generator, hydrogen, energy, gravity powered, generator, generator, hydrogen, energy, gravity powered, generator, generator, hydrogen, energy, gravity powered, generator
new source of energy is an engine that runs on gravity and can deliver over 100 pounds of torque,generator,free energy,magnets,torque,energy,energy source,New source of energy, free energy, gravity,power,electricity,generator,"
It's an old trick to hide text on a page by making it the same color as the background. You have to highlight is to make the text change color to be visible. Many web pages do this so that the search engine bots will pick up the text.
I find it strange that the text included text like fuel cell, hydrogen, nuclear energy, etc.
Why would a gravity wheel page include words like that??
Bob once posted, that he also worked
on a Hydrogen system.
So did finally any of the forum members living near Bob
visited him and saw personally his new machine ?
Any firsthand reports ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
People would put in words like that because someone looking for hydrogen fuel cell etc. are looking for alternate energy, free energy and the like and people like that may be open to other forms than what they specifically seek. It's very common web page design tactics.
Funny, we're discussing self-sustaining devices in all kinds of threads, Abeling and such, while the solution might be right here and it's causing no excitement, no splash. Basic distrust in what's being claimed is what might be the reason for that. Wonder what could be the solution to that conundrum and whether or not we should at all try to get involved in it until Bob decides to divulge details and let someone visit him and try to replicate what he has. I've always thought there couldn't be anything more amazing, if it's really what we think it is, in this field from the times he started posting. Unfortunately, for now (and he certainly has his reasons this thing to stay that way) it still remains a part of that pile of devices with unsubstantiated OU claims, readily ignored by everybody. Wish there could be some more clarity on the reality of that thing.
He's back with pictures of his new machine. The pictures are high resolution and can be Zoomed quite high without degradation.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/index.html
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on April 17, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
He's back with pictures of his new machine. The pictures are high resolution and can be Zoomed quite high without degradation.
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/index.html
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry,
did you save the pictures and can you please post them here ?
I only can see 3 small 150x113 pixel pics,
which are too small to see anything..
Bob has also put up a new
Video #4 which I had not seen yet.
Are all the videos now without sound
or is this my PC acting strange ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 17, 2010, 07:31:15 PM
Hi Larry,
did you save the pictures and can you please post them here ?
I only can see 3 small 150x113 pixel pics,
which are too small to see anything..
Bob has also put up a new
Video #4 which I had not seen yet.
Are all the videos now without sound
or is this my PC acting strange ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan
download those photos. They are hi resolution crammed into the small screen. Then open them up on your computer. They are large.
Alan
[A author=hartiberlin link=topic=2326.msg238041#msg238041 date=1271547075]
Hi Larry,
did you save the pictures and can you please post them here ?
I only can see 3 small 150x113 pixel pics,
which are too small to see anything..
Bob has also put up a new
Video #4 which I had not seen yet.
Are all the videos now without sound
or is this my PC acting strange ?
[/quote]
I've included the pictures. I have IE and use the View/Zoom to increase to 400%, then Ctrl + to increase to the limit. Then use screen hunter freeware to capture.
He must have just added Vid 3 and 4. That 4 is some wild looking.
I don't get any sound either, video 2 had sound before.
Regards, Larry
Thanks @LarryC. Would be great if Bob could come up here and explain what the role of these hoses is. The cat seems curious too (she's so cute ...).
Many thanks for the big pics.
It seems Bob is still using hydraulics or
air pressure to move his weights inside his frame and
get mechanical acceleration out.
I wonder, if he needs less electrical energy to move the weights
inside his machine than the rotational energy he could extract...
Regards, Stefan.
P.S:
the new Video #4 with the huge machine and its 3 arms looks really
impressive !
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/new%20machine.wmv
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 17, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
Many thanks for the big pics.
It seems Bob is still using hydraulics or
air pressure to move his weights inside his frame and
get mechanical acceleration out.
I wonder, if he needs less electrical energy to move the weights
inside his machine than the rotational energy he could extract...
Regards, Stefan.
So, he has external energy input it seems. Is this just to give it an initial boost or has to be supplied continuously?
We've tried to get Bob to describe in detail how it works in the past, but would only give out a few details. He seems to be in this for the money. ???
Video 4 is very cool! He claims it is patented.. on his previous machine I couldn't find a patent.. I'll see if I can find one for these new machines.
4Tesla
I found his US Patent Application:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090051169
Couldn't find images or patent.
Here is his Peswiki page:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Kostoff_Gravity_Machine
In the news:
http://www.thepost.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=683411
4Tesla
I do not understand the excitement about this energy converter.
Got to http://ep.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP
and put US20090051169 in field "Number:" , click on the button SEARCH and you will get the full patent description including the drawings.
In the patent description it is declared that the machine converts pressure (of a gas or fluid stored under pressure in a tank) to electricity (see the attached image of the text).
One could argue that the conversion is very efficient. It stands to proof that one gets more electricity out of the machine than it costed to create the pressure in the tank. Which is hard to believe and which is definitely not claimed in the patent.
Is the whole discussion in this topic about this point? It seems so?
I think the inventor wants to use "pressure" which is left over from other activities and which would have been lost by dissipation from the tank.
Greetings, Conrad
So, those hoses and hydraulic tank I pointed out in the enlarged photos of this devices way back in the beginning of this topic turned out to be just that?
This device does not run on gravity alone then as we all seemed to first think? (and were led to believe)
This may actually turn out to be a useful device, don't get me wrong, but thanks to the patents, we now see that it is a converter not a gravity generator machine.
Wow, I wish we knew this for sure a long time ago.
Thanks for the patent research.
Bill
What a disappointment. What can I say? The initial claim was quite different and it doesn't matter whether or not this is a useful device, we were misled. So, as a rule of thumb, anybody who makes videos with OU claims and refuses to cooperate with independent parties to verify these claims should be considered nothing but a joke, to put it mildly. This manipulative behavior is turning into a trend, unfortunately, abusing the wonderful opportunities the internet provides for dissemination of knowledge.
Concerning Bob Kostoff's (so called) Gravity Machine
I previously wrote the following in:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/airpoweredvehicles/
See highlighted section below. Russians first saw these
process happen in transformer oil similar to hydraulic fluid.
If this process is what is happening in his device and he doesn't
wish admit to it then his device's development trajectory is going
to follow historical patterns.
---
I think that one needs to recognize that the conditions
produced of shock air compression are *exactly* those
conditions required to produce CF Cold Fusion by the
deuterium hydrogen isotopes found in natural water.
This input water could easily come from the humidity
in atmospheric air. Also that the processes that cause
compression fusion in noble gasses as historically used
by the Papp engine could also be taking place in
naturally occurring atmospheric argon.
Rather than play "fight the theoretician", one needs
to recognize there may be processes seen in the
real world that don't immediately correspond to any
apparent in their equations. If one can understand
the process and put in place structures to augment
it, then one may come out miles ahead in the long
run.
CF is a particular process, even though it can be
initiated by many different physical processes that
insert mechanical phonons into hydrogen bearing
liquids. This causes vacuum cavitation bubbles
to expand and when they subsequently collapse they
produce the electrodynamic and then the nuclear
conditions under which two deuterium atoms can fuse
together resulting in excess heat available to the process.
...
By understanding what is occurring, several positive
things might occur: First the structures that augment
these process can be designed into equipment and be
*kept there*. If statistical parameters accompany the
production of this energy then they will become quantifiable.
If the statistic and costs are favorable, compressed air
may become the *preferable vehicle* to realize excess CF
cold fusion energy. And finally success in these endeavors
can have a positive effect on the scientific study and
acceptance of the CF cold fusion process itself.
:S:MarkSCoffman
No, no, Bob Kostoff's unfortunate creation has nothing to do with cold fusion. No need to infuse further confusion into this already muddled enough story. The only thing it deserves is to dismiss it and move on.
Quote from: conradelektro on April 18, 2010, 06:34:54 AM
Got to http://ep.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP
and put US20090051169 in field "Number:" , click on the button SEARCH and you will get the full patent description including the drawings.
Thanks!
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2009051169A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090226&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
4Tesla
Bob has changed video 4 from the tri-arm to show a longer run of his latest machine. It can be slowed down to see the detail of the lift sequence. The lift seems to be only around 8" to 12". Makes you wonder why the very expensive ~36" double action cylinders.
Clock Pos Lift percentage
11:00 0%
11:30 25%
12:00 50%
1:00 75%
1:30 100%
Regards, Larry
The unit at far right end, shown in picture 2, reply #789 is a Solenoid operated hydraulic directional control valve. See picture below of a similar one.
Regards, Larry
Quote from: LarryC on April 22, 2010, 06:10:44 PM
Bob has changed video 4 from the tri-arm to show a longer run of his latest machine. It can be slowed down to see the detail of the lift sequence. The lift seems to be only around 8" to 12". Makes you wonder why the very expensive ~36" double action cylinders.
Clock Pos Lift percentage
11:00 0%
11:30 25%
12:00 50%
1:00 75%
1:30 100%
Regards, Larry
Maybe Bob has just worded his patent this way, to really get it passed
and thus he does not mentioned selfrunning ?
In the changed video #4 you see also the big blue device,
which could be a pressure generator which is also driven
by his machine.
But there is also a battery near by, so the question is,
is the battery recharged from the generator or
is it running the whole machine ?
Too bad, he has deleted the sound of the videos,
otherwise one could maybe hear, what is going on...
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan,
Bob used to visit this forum as @bobmary. It would be nice if he could come back and make it clear whether this is really a self-sustaining device. I don't see what the point might be of him posting all these videos if he has no intention of sustaining his claims.
I emailed him recently , but no reply yet...
Hmm, maybe he already has enough investors ?
Too bad he is so into the money with it...
and too bad nobody yet interviewed him
and made new videos.
Is he so shy and will not show anything ?
Why is nobody living near him try to meet him
and make an interview with him ?
The interviewer could sign an NDA and
only publish this, what Bob is willing to say...
At least Bob seems to be willing to show a few new
things on his website, but it seems
he is struggling with his website software and
maybe he needs a helping hand to get more data out ?
Regards, Stefan.
I would be willing to travel to Toronto and see the device but I have to be certain that what is claimed is a self-sustaining device. Otherwise I'm not interested. Also, a condition for me to go is that I will not sign an NDA.
Omnibus,
just give him a call and ask.
He was listed in the white pages
when this thread started.
Regards, Stefan.
Could you please tell me what his phone number is, if you have it handy?
Omnibus,
I have emailed you his adress and phone number.
Please let me know, what comes out of it.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for sending me the info. Will keep you posted.
Hi Omnibus,
it must be somewhere around here in this neighbourhood:
http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Little+Britain,+Ontario+Canada&sll=51.727028,-119.091797&sspn=48.731213,168.75&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Little+Britain,+Kawartha+Lakes,+Kawartha+Lakes+Division,+Ontario,+Kanada&ll=44.28552,-78.859649&spn=0.013579,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.285471,-78.859804&panoid=R8gH3PWd56-x6jf9W2D5QQ&cbp=12,62.6,,0,15.7 (http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Little+Britain,+Ontario+Canada&sll=51.727028,-119.091797&sspn=48.731213,168.75&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Little+Britain,+Kawartha+Lakes,+Kawartha+Lakes+Division,+Ontario,+Kanada&ll=44.28552,-78.859649&spn=0.013579,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.285471,-78.859804&panoid=R8gH3PWd56-x6jf9W2D5QQ&cbp=12,62.6,,0,15.7)
It is always nice to have a Google street view preview ! ;)
Hi Stefan,
I've been trying to call the telephone number you gave me for Bob Kostoff but there was no answer yesterday while today there was a recording saying something like "this customer is not available". I don't know how else to get in touch with him.
has anyone here seen the patent or built one of these.
Quote from: rblackwell2771 on May 02, 2010, 01:06:59 PM
has anyone here seen the patent or built one of these.
this is not open source.
patent? if there is such a thing there is not enough information to replicate.
need i say more?
empty claims.
dead end...
i have a copy of the patent that has a lot of photos and diagrams, but it is worded energy converter. a person can download the pdf. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0051169.html
Patent - page 54:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2326.msg238138#msg238138
ok now lets see a full open sourced working replication! ::)
Bob mentions a cam mechanism he uses. I think his mechanism a cam around the axle so that when the weight drops from 12 to 4 o clock, the arm travels around the cam lifting up the weights half the distance then CF takes over causing them to fly up to the top... simple
Edit: pic below (of course you have a second weight the other side by the axle which is connected)
Alex
[A author=rks1878 link=topic=2326.msg31264#msg31264 date=1179015403]
Bob,
Your invention looked like it was slowing down as the spring you were winding up became unwound.
Nice machine. Lots of vibration, etc. ;)
[/quote]
1st look at that vid, the thing is slowing visibly around 48 secs in. Lemme skip to pahe 10000000250 of the comments and see what the conclusions are ;D
I noticed on his webpage http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/
a hidden "GO" button on the bottom so I clicked it and it brought me here http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/energy.html
Figure I'd mention that since I didn't see anyone else post it.
Finally this long wait for Bob and many is about to end....Just be patient. It is hard to convince people you are for real especially when the machine is like this one. I am glad he is a person of character that is not interested in selling out to the Govt or some firm that is more interested in buying it and shelving it for their personally interest.
Hey Guys,
Bob has a new video that he is preparing to use on his web page. Just click on the hidden square near the bottom of his page about the center. Looks like he has added more weight to the slider for more torque.
Vince
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Machine-1%20%28copy%29.wmv
What is the slider may I ask?
Alex
It is the structure that sits around the main frame. It has 4 plates and boxes with weights in them arranged in an rectangular box. This box has rollers on the inner side that allow it to slide from one end of the inner frame to the other end. You can see the assistant starting the machine and the slider is shuttled to the top side of the frame to start the cycles. In one shot you can see the activating valve on the inner frame and the trigger arm on the base structure. The machine is quite impressive and he assures me that it has enough torque to run the 20000 watt generator and self feed the motor/hydraulic pump that powers it.
Vince
Is there any drawings to confirm that is part of its operation, sounds most interesting.
Alex
LOL I like it when he cries help!! LOL
The biggest problem I am looking at is, it is over complicated. This can cause more to break down. I am sure the thing is noisy and look how it shakes around. For starters he need a much greater structure just to run it. But he is still to be watched. IMHO
Alan
@ Alex,
The patent which can be found in one of the earlier posts shows a general arrangement of the concept. The machine has evolved in several forms but the basic idea is simple and not really as complicated as it may appear.
Basically he is shuttling a heavy slider weight to the top of a rotating arm or track. He started with Pneumatic cylinders but has progressed to hydraulics. The cylinders are attached to the rotating arm or track on one end and to the slider at the other end. Air or oil in the later variations is fed from a electric motor/ hydraulic pump power pack thru a swivel valve in the center of the shaft and feeds control valves at each cylinder. An actuating valve is placed on the rotating arm and is triggered by a lever which is fixed to the base structure. When the arm rotates to a preset point on the high side the trigger valve is activated and allows oil or air in the earlier versions to force the cylinders to move the slider to the highest point in the rotation and make that side heavy, and since the low side of the slider has moved to the center most position the opposite side of the arm is now light. When the High side of the arm falls thru the arc because of gravity it again triggers the valve to shuttle the slider to the opposite end of the arm repeating the cycle.
Various versions of his machine show different triggers for actuation. On one version he used electric solenoid valves fed by a commutator on the rotating center shaft. The valves were 12 volt so that is why you saw a auto battery in that version.
The reason the machines are so massive is that more weight means more torque and centrifugal force as it rotates.
In the three arm version that he has, the slider weights are individual and not attached to each other. These have individual triggers for each arm to shuttle the slider/weight to the high side at approximately the 12 o'clock position and to a more central position after the 6 o'clock position for each arm. Same concept only a more elegant design.
The design is quite sound and obviously produces a lot of torque. You have to admit that no one would put that much time and money into a project without having real and productive results. This is no stick and glue project. No one would make so many versions of a design if they were not confident that the net force gained was not worth the effort.
Watch this man. This is a real contender!
Vince
So at the end of the day, its electric assisted to raise the weights up? Where is there excess power coming from?
Alex
Although he never says it, the claim is implied that the amount of electrical power used to run the power pack to move the slider is LESS that the generator is producing due to the torque added from the falling weights and the centrifugal force components in the equation.
I really doubt that he would have gone to these lengths to make so many expensive examples of the machine if the results were not positive.
Maybe a more appropriate name should be Electro/Hydraulic Gravity Assist Motor Generator.
Vince
Vince:
I totally agree with you.
Bill
To me that is quite disappointing really, I was hoping for a pure mechanical solution like Bessler... Still clever though. The way Bob explained his wheel at the start of this topic sounds like a pure mechanical solution he has discovered. He talks of a cam and various other things...
Alex
It actually started that way! He even wrote back to this forum (when he was communicating with us) stating that the machine needed no external power. On one of his first web pages he stated that he had originally made a purely mechanical system,but there was not enough gain to do any useful work,so he started working with his present system.
The concept is not that unique. There is at least one other patent (can't find it right now) that uses external power to move the weight, and quite a few years before Bob came on the scene David Wagoneer of Creative Science was and still is selling plans for a similar gravity machine that uses an externally base mounted cylinder or high voltage electro magnet to move the slider just like Bobs machine via a cam lever. Someone made mention to this in one of the very earlier posts in this thread but it went largely unnoticed because everybody was lead to believe that Bob's system was purely mechanical with no external input, and it was originally.
I'm not sure if Bob was influenced by this design or not but it is very similar.
Vince
Not to brag, but i was one of the folks in the early days to blow up some of his photos to show a hydraulic tank with an electric motor powering the tank.
This is why I agree with Vince. Maybe the topic was misnamed? If he indeed has found a way to get more out than input using gravity, more power to him but, as Vince pointed out, the topic name is misleading at best.
Bill
Quote from: ragnew on September 30, 2010, 07:28:12 AM
http://www.newsourceofenergy.com/Machine-1%20%28copy%29.wmv
Finally a good video where one can see, how it works.
Many thanks to Bob for posting this.
Looking forward to see some measurements of the output power versus input power.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Me too.
Bill
Quote from: vince on October 02, 2010, 07:41:50 PM
It actually started that way! He even wrote back to this forum (when he was communicating with us) stating that the machine needed no external power. On one of his first web pages he stated that he had originally made a purely mechanical system,but there was not enough gain to do any useful work,so he started working with his present system.
The concept is not that unique. There is at least one other patent (can't find it right now) that uses external power to move the weight, and quite a few years before Bob came on the scene David Wagoneer of Creative Science was and still is selling plans for a similar gravity machine that uses an externally base mounted cylinder or high voltage electro magnet to move the slider just like Bobs machine via a cam lever. Someone made mention to this in one of the very earlier posts in this thread but it went largely unnoticed because everybody was lead to believe that Bob's system was purely mechanical with no external input, and it was originally.
I'm not sure if Bob was influenced by this design or not but it is very similar.
Vince
Does anyone have a complete understanding of how the pure mechanical version worked? Would be interesting to examine and thanks for the info and time Vince
Alex
Quote from: vince on October 02, 2010, 07:41:50 PM
It actually started that way! He even wrote back to this forum (when he was communicating with us) stating that the machine needed no external power. On one of his first web pages he stated that he had originally made a purely mechanical system,but there was not enough gain to do any useful work,so he started working with his present system.
The concept is not that unique. There is at least one other patent (can't find it right now) that uses external power to move the weight, and quite a few years before Bob came on the scene David Wagoneer of Creative Science was and still is selling plans for a similar gravity machine that uses an externally base mounted cylinder or high voltage electro magnet to move the slider just like Bobs machine via a cam lever. Someone made mention to this in one of the very earlier posts in this thread but it went largely unnoticed because everybody was lead to believe that Bob's system was purely mechanical with no external input, and it was originally.
I'm not sure if Bob was influenced by this design or not but it is very similar.
Vince
so, had he really been on the right track, he could've had the first mechanical device powering a generator needed for the second device to work with a propper torque (or a series of devices, which would produce motion with no external source).
Does anyone know whats happend to Bobs website, it says "just around the corner". Well it must be over two months since I read that... Is it dying down or..?
Alex
everything is always "just around the corner"........ depresses me lol
Very one in the world has to see this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6gaN8gRs5A
Hi ALL
There is no Trace left of the website now in 2011 and have heard nothing, does any one know of Bob's progress?
Ash
Quote from: hartiberlin on May 11, 2007, 12:49:03 AM
Hi All,
I just went to:
www.newsourceofenergy.com
(old website:
www.newenergymachine.com )
and saw there their new video.
As it was a bit dark and also 54 MB to download,
I just put it through Virtualdub editor and converted it to
a Gamma level enhanced and sharpened DIVX AVI movie.
Here is the result in 4 Mbytes size enclosed.
You need the newer free www.divx.com
codec to watch it.
Looks amazing.
The first wheel , which seems really to accelerate.
Seems it really generates a lot of torque !
The guy is loosening the brake on the machine, gives it a little
push and the rotor accelerates !
I hope we can invite the inventor to come over here and
tell us about his design.
Regards, Stefan.
<object width=\"640\" height=\"480\"><param name=\"movie\" value=\"http://www.youtube.com/v/eT7oR_-l0qU&hl=de&fs=1&autoplay=1\"></param><param name=\"allowFullScreen\" value=\"true\"></param><param name=\"allowscriptaccess\" value=\"always\"></param><embed src=\"http://www.youtube.com/v/eT7oR_-l0qU&hl=de&fs=1&autoplay=1\" type=\"application/x-shockwave-flash\" allowscriptaccess=\"always\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\"></embed></object>
from what I hear, the device uses a 'second party' energy source called compressed air/liquid to function.
the device also requires the tarp in the background to run magically only on fairy dust. he just don't want you to see the magic ingredients.
jerry 8)
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 26, 2011, 12:16:26 AM
from what I hear, the device uses a 'second party' energy source called compressed air/liquid to function.
the device also requires the tarp in the background to run magically only on fairy dust. he just don't want you to see the magic ingredients.
jerry 8)
hearsay? wow! how scientific of you... i didn't know you had gone to such trouble. 8)
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on May 26, 2011, 12:46:55 AM
hearsay? wow! how scientific of you... i didn't know you had gone to such trouble. 8)
acuity at its best.
look at all the quick couplings and hoses involved. the tarp in the background.
why would a 'gravity' driven device require a second party energy system? eh?
or are you purposely ignoring what really reveals it.
jerry 8)
Perhaps his closed loop report works in the same way Hidro does, its a new discovery, (pressure gradients etc) , Bob still reports the device as independent or looped as far as i understand it, maybe i am wrong but Bob is seems to think so, there will never be details released this way or in the patent process i guess, until the first device declares this after its running an application not on display
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 26, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
acuity at its best.
look at all the quick couplings and hoses involved. the tarp in the background.
why would a 'gravity' driven device require a second party energy system? eh?
acuity at its best??? LMFAO yeah, that's why you just quoted a FOUR (4) year old post... 8)
so because there are hoses, couplings and a tarp in the background it must be air or liquid powered? that would be a logical fallacy known as 'false dilemma'... almost as silly as your hearsay comment... ::)
edit to respond to your edit: no. i just don't make arbitrary assumptions based on a youtube video... 8)
Quote from: ashtweth_nihilisti on May 26, 2011, 12:51:28 AM
Perhaps his closed loop report works in the same way Hidro does, its a new discovery, (pressure gradients etc) , Bob still reports the device as independent or looped as far as i understand it, maybe i am wrong but Bob is seems to think so, there will never be details released this way or in the patent process i guess, until the first device declares this after its running an application not on display
that would be grand! but it still remains a pipe dream until this day. not his design nor any others shall make a pure gravity device work, it will require at minimum a second party energy system to function.
Jerry 8)
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on May 26, 2011, 12:58:46 AM
acuity at its best??? LMFAO yeah, that's why you just quoted a FOUR (4) year old post... 8)
so because there are hoses, couplings and a tarp in the background it must be air or liquid powered? that would be a logical fallacy known as 'false dilemma'... almost as silly as your hearsay comment... ::)
edit to respond to your edit: no. i just don't make arbitrary assumptions based on a youtube video... 8)
Wilby, no matter how deluded you can be, I still think I like you. I don't know why but I do, please forgive me.
Jerry 8)
Jerry , you still missed the point, the point is that he says closed loop and gravity may be like in the hidro case part of the system, the word association still does not take away that we have reports of an independent device and may have a self runner,
if any one has details or updates on bob please post here, doubters have said your piece , there is no website update the website is gone.
Ash
Quote from: ashtweth_nihilisti on May 26, 2011, 01:05:46 AM
Jerry , you still missed the point, the point is that he says closed loop and gravity may be like in the hidro case part of the system, the word association still does not take away that we have reports of an independent device and may have a self runner,
if any one has details or updates on bob please post here, doubters have said your piece , there is no website update the website is gone.
Ash
Hi Ash.
I am certainly not a doubter, I just happen to believe more upon the physical laws, when I see a simple conversion of energy such as this, I know there is a second party of energy maybe more, when you convert energy from one form to another you will have great losses of efficiency.
most of the people here don't understand it.
I can clearly see the hoses and couplings and tarp in the video, I can see a second party energy system helping an off balanced system. else the hoses would not be required period.
Hi Jerry, yes most people saw that in Hidro too, they use compressed air gravity and other gradients, i want to be sure with bob, things are never as simple, which is why you could look at Floyd sweet and think they are just magnets, most would look at Hidro and think math etc, but the bumble bee cant fly either :).
I would rather investigate more ;), if any one has details please let me know, sadly his site is gone.
Ash
Hello
Can you all take a look at this moive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmAQ26iTXRE
It looks a little like what I saw on the video the first page of this forum!
Hi,
I was supposed to go see "BOB' a few years ago.
I just looked at this thread again....still active
from what I remember, i'm 10 minutes from 'BOB'.
This is quite a contraption, i guess I should go see it.
Can someone contact me with BOB's info, I'll call and see if he accepting guests.
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 26, 2011, 12:16:26 AM
from what I hear, the device uses a 'second party' energy source called compressed air/liquid to function.
the device also requires the tarp in the background to run magically only on fairy dust. he just don't want you to see the magic ingredients.
jerry 8)
he said in his own words it is centrifugal force, i beleive him because Milokovic's device works on the same principal - he (Mil) announced that recently (and yes i did know about it much earlier).
===
i watched the video in the first post and i beleive one end is heavier than the other (which may actually be nothing), whenever that end reached the top, the table moved. if one end was not heavier, it would balance, and no CF.
if you want genuine gravity devices (the name of the topic implies this is gravity) i recommend you look at the Spiteri device (i looked at it and saw it could be mounted in a barrel containing water, and a way to double output), or tsungs device.
Quote from: SteveK on May 31, 2011, 11:40:48 AM
Hi,
I was supposed to go see "BOB' a few years ago.
I just looked at this thread again....still active
from what I remember, i'm 10 minutes from 'BOB'.
This is quite a contraption, i guess I should go see it.
Can someone contact me with BOB's info, I'll call and see if he accepting guests.
Why don´t you go there, ring on the door and make a new friend ?
Please let us know, what he will say.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
p.S. He was living in:
Bob Kostoff
Little Britain, Canada
Better contact info was already posted, but I don´t find it anymore right now.
Thanks.
I did some digging and found this link (only pics, other pages return errors):
http://sirinenergycorporation.com/photogal/imgp0705.htm
and the video I found through wayback machine.
No relevant post since 2012.... as much as I hate naysayers... Id have to make the conclusion the this device is never going to go anywhere. Either it was all just a fabrication or if it was in fact a functioning piece... he's been bought out....and we'll never see it unless someone can replicate his patent to prove or disprove it's merit.
Just my opinion!
259262
QuoteOffline helmut
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Re: New accelerating gravity wheel ! Converted video from www.newenergymachine.c
« Reply #161 on: December 30, 2007, 05:12:57 PM »
Quote
Quote from: korinsj on December 30, 2007, 03:13:27 PM
Hi all,
Sorry my english, but I have one question.
Any one knows how Bob's gravity wheel works (less more).
Why? Because in my project of gravity wheel I have only 2 mass and some toth gears. No springs, etc.
But my project is very very close to Bob's machine.
I will build my gravity wheel in next week - so, I verify my theory in practice.
Regards,
SM
Hello Korinsj
I guess at the time nobody knows exactly how it works. Bob told me ,that the rejektion works mechanic way.
In the German Sektion is a patentet wheel exposed.
Perhaps you can use some idea.At least it is a proof that many People try to use Gravity to drive a wheel.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3821.0/topicseen.html
If you have Questions because of Germen Language,dont hesitate to ask.
But how do you go to handle your Work ?
I would like you to Open Source your plans and provide us with Pics and
Video at a given time.So that a Replikation can be done, as soon as possible.
Or at least a sketch.
Good succsess
helmut
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 02:32:40 AM by hartiberlin »
Hmmmmm. Huh?
QuoteOffline helmut
Hero Member
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Posts: 718
Quote« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 02:32:40 AM by hartiberlin »
Why was this old post, written by HELMUT, edited by HARTIBERLIN?
CANGAS 132
Rotating Unbalanced Cylinder will lead-out gravitational energy. Amen.
Don't lose hope. Gravitational forces can be tricky. Besides, we have it from an un'impeachable' source from another thread (who must remain nameless) that those living near truck stops will soon be able to siphon enough gravitational energy from the combined masses of inbound and outbound 18 wheelers to power the LEDs of home night lights in partial compensation for upsetting the gravitational sanctity of one's home....
QuoteI have no doubt that if it is just sitting on a table top that it will keep on moving. I've seen a torsion pendulum that was so sensitive that it "kept moving" perpetually...because every week somebody parked an 18-wheeler about 50 yards away outside the building and the thing was actually _gravitationally attracted_ to the mass of the truck, and this was enough to keep it swinging. The business of eliminating all outside sources of energy is not a trivial one.
Yes, eliminating outside influences is certainly not a trivial matter. But then of course, neither is welcoming them.
ROTFL
:D
;D
:o
CA2639107
Robert Kostooff Canadien patent :Energy Converter
Scientists have learned how to get energy through evaporation
https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2630984
https://youtu.be/v0m8fuG9MCU
https://naked-science.ru/sites/default/files/styles/full_size/public/field/image/eva_1.jpg?itok=tXHQVa4_
Evaporation is a real work process. Nevertheless, it is very slow. This will only be a useful means if we can accelerate the process by several orders of magnitude. I've already thought about it, but I haven't found a solution.
I wonder if this device works.