I was thinking about how cool it would be to live in a wigwam! Especially with the hot native girl the pic here:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahsd25.k12.il.us%2FCurriculum%2520Info%2FNativeAmericans%2Fimages%2Fwigwams.jpg&hash=e80cf876a163a555160544602b751a823344628e)
Now, although the girl is nice enough, the wigwam in the pic isn't exactly what i had in mind. See, I've sort of grown too accustomed to all the modern conveiniences of modern living. And so I'm thinking it would be cool to combine a bunch of these geek-contraptions and apparatii with the wigwam idea and create a wigwam on steroids: super-neo-techno-wigwams with airconditioning, washing machines, refridgerators, washer / dryers, satelite internet, and every other modern conveinience you could think of and have it all powered by solar panels (the super-neo-techno-wigwam panels) and wind power (we could connect a wind-power generator to the frame), and lastly make it all easily assembled / disassembled and transportable.
What do you all think?
Change the name ,but not the mission, from www.containerliving.com to "wigwamliving" ,
think or experiment with modern materials like www.shelterdomes.co.uk
try Yurts/Ger for the alternative living,
but the easiest way would be an organized "summer camp",with all the urban,modern, infrastructure equipped with "survival trainees" ! Theory and Practice .
S
dL
interesting are there any ongoing projects of this sort?
Google it,for your region: survival course/trainee
Other,related,themes could be: Burning Man and Icosa-Village
about "wigwam"-equipment-details: www.geolitesystems.com/hm.html
or www.glen-l.com/campers/glenlrv.html -trailer-plans
S
dL
You would really want to look at something a little more modernized like container living, or subterranean shelter. To be frank: mud, sticks, and straw won't be up to builders code these days, and the size/building methods of wigwams is feeble when compared to the long houses or teepees of the plains indians. How would living in wigwams: lower polution, lessen energy consumption, or offer any tangible benefit?
@dingus mungus
container living? it doesn't seem containers are very portable.
And when did I say that the wigwams I'm talking about have to be made out of sticks and mud? Why do you assume that?
I thought I made it clear that the wigwam roof / walls would be made of solar-panels.
www.butlerprojects.com/other/grandcabin/index.htm
not a wigwam,but for 500/1000 US$ for 140sft !?
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE3412245&F=0
similar to the Markku Hedmann "Kesa-Kontii"-model:
www.architektur-online.infoarchiv/Heft0302/hedman.html and the plan here
www.detail.de/Db/DbFiles/archiv/4992/ansichts.pdf
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2225358&F=0
image/mosaics page 3/3, "a nice evolution" story
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=FR2572437&F=0
" un peu bourgeoise" ,excuse moi !
"MY HOME IS MY CHALET !"
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US4741133&F=0
the alternative to the commercial modern life container: www.habitaflex.com
or :??? pueblo-material(paper from adobe,adobe from paper)
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE19938141&F=0
foam: www.penopoliuretan.com or www.fiberfoamconcrete.com
and as coating www.grancrete.net
S
dL
p.s.: http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080
Gallery of Housing concepts
for example www.n55.dk/index.html
Quote from: xenobard on May 30, 2007, 03:57:43 AM
@dingus mungus
container living? it doesn't seem containers are very portable.
And when did I say that the wigwams I'm talking about have to be made out of sticks and mud? Why do you assume that?
I thought I made it clear that the wigwam roof / walls would be made of solar-panels.
Sticks, staw and mud is how a wig wam is made... thats why I assumed.
So you plan on building it with what then?
I'm just confused by the idea all together...
What is the advantage or benefit of living in a wig wam? As in How will living in wig wams benefit mankind? Also where is the concept in this idea that improves efficiency or collects power?
@Dingus: Mixing lime and hemp creates an ecological type of concrete that sequesters CO2. It is a far more efficient way of fixing carbon than planting trees. Not so far removed from mud and sticks, really.
@xenobard: how can you aim to be ascetic and have all mod cons at the same time? An ascetic consumer is an oxymoron.
Hello Dingus Mungus,
I think xenobard is also in the search-phase,
so let him try to find his own solution.
Wigwam(or Tipi) and "modern comfort": his "best-of-all"-trial.
S
dL
Quote from: prajna on May 31, 2007, 03:33:50 AM
@Dingus: Mixing lime and hemp creates an ecological type of concrete that sequesters CO2. It is a far more efficient way of fixing carbon than planting trees. Not so far removed from mud and sticks, really.
Thats amazing! Yet another good use for hemp...
Now that compounted by the low heat conductivity
makes that a great insulator that is next to free,
renewable and a negitive carbon emmission on top.
An excelent contibution to this thread!
Engineering press link with data:
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3086670&c=2 (http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3086670&c=2)
?In the UK typical cavity wall construction could be responsible for 100kg of CO2 equivalent per square metre of wall?, ?With hemcrete, it?s possible to remove 30-50kg of CO2 per square metre.?
I'll be looking in to these products when I build my dream house.
~Dingus
"I'm just confused by the idea all together...
What is the advantage or benefit of living in a wig wam? As in How will living in wig wams benefit mankind? Also where is the concept in this idea that improves efficiency or collects power?"
I thought it was obvious:
Human civilization has existed in two forms: nomadic hunter-gather communities and permanent agricultural settlments.
The latter is proving to be unsustainable, and will eventually fall, as all permanent agriculturally-based settlments have fallen. Hence the nomadic hunter-gather way of life is simply the most sustainable, time-tested, and, in all honesty, is the way of the future.
I am thinking that we shouldn't have to use sticks and mud or hemp and lime to make them though. The super-neo-techno-wigwams could be mass-produced now, when the population of the earth is still high enough to provide an adequate market for them to be sold. They could be designed in such a way that they would last, and so when modern civilization does eventually fall and the majority of the population of Earth dies, there will be plenty of super-neo-techno-wigwams lying around for the surviving people to use.
Now, unlike most things that are mass-produced thesedays, these super-neo-techno-wigwams should actually be made to last; they should be colapseable for transportability; because they will be the 'in' thing, there should be a huge demand for them and thus could be sold at a very low price. :P
All we have to figure out is how to incorporate water and sewage and modern appliances into the colapsable and easily transportable super-neo-techno-wigwam.
We should hurry because we all know the world is going to hell in a handbasket and there isn't much time to get this done. So come on and help save the future of the human race, will you? Once all the stupid rich people kill themselves off with their wars and diseases they export around the world, the smart poor people could use some modern conveniences in their super-neo-techno-wigwams.
So esentially your concept is really high grade tents with built in amenities?
Like say flexible plastic solar wafers sewn in to the outer walls, or like a built
in filterating water pouch that collects rain water... Expensive stuff my friend!
Go check out REI or Cabellas and you'll see that companies are already doing this.
Why aren't any of those tents using solar fabric? Solar fabric technology was developed two years ago.
http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/news/webpages/USATODAY_com%20-%20Iowa%20company%20develops%20solar%20fabric%20that%20gets%20Army's%20attention.htm (http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/news/webpages/USATODAY_com%20-%20Iowa%20company%20develops%20solar%20fabric%20that%20gets%20Army's%20attention.htm)
It seems they could easily make tents out of this stuff:
http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/consumer_ready/rollables/index.htm (http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/consumer_ready/rollables/index.htm)
Why haven't they put two and two together?
Another article from 2004:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000989.html (http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000989.html)
"Long-term, the idea is to have solar panels that can be camouflaged into tents or even uniforms. So the Army is working with contractors "to develop nanotechnology-based solar panels that can be woven directly into fabric. [The] technology replaces silicon with dye polymer plastics that transform any kind of light into electrical energy," Gartner writes."
Does anyone know what has come of this endeavor?
Still it's all talk, talk, talk *yawn:
http://news.com.com/Researchers+band+together+for+solar+fabric/2100-1008_3-5579562.html (http://news.com.com/Researchers+band+together+for+solar+fabric/2100-1008_3-5579562.html)
Solar 'panels' still seem to be the way to go - not fabric. Panel = more efficient.
So it looks like it's got to be panels for the super-neo-techno-wigwam. Al we need to do is design how the solar 'tiles' unfold.
You would have to rely on the nanorod solar technology, because the alternative "plates" require a glass enclosure, meaning heavy and fragile.
But companies did that already... And all of it is expensive and low demand.
http://www.solarintegrated.com/solar_tents.htm (http://www.solarintegrated.com/solar_tents.htm)
Plus wig wams weren't portable... They were made from stuff around them.
You're looking for the ultra cheap anymans ultimate housing solution...
The average person in the US uses 10kw of electricity a day.
Not possible in the cheap or portable realm when dealing with solar.
You have heavy expensive batteries, heavy expensive pannels and
a extra heavy expensive inverter/charger.
I would suggest from a power standpoint you look in to ultra efficient wind
turbine technologies as they are cheaper and if built in the right way always
providing power. I read years ago about a company called Magenn Power Inc
that developed a high altitude turbine making wind power possible anywhere.
http://www.magenn.com/ (http://www.magenn.com/)
It could be portable if made smaller and retractable like a kite. It would have
to travel tethered down in something the size of a pickup truck bed, but it
would be affordable, ultra light (lol), portable power. Could your techno cyber
wig wam be like a biodiesel school bus or an RV maybe? Beacuse I have a ton
of experience in that department... Owned one and helped build three already.
~Dingus Mungus
"I would suggest from a power standpoint you look in to ultra efficient wind
turbine technologies"
But of course! Why limit the super-neo-techno-wigwam to merely one energy source. As I said at the beginning, there would be a a wind turbine as well.
"The average person in the US uses 10kw of electricity a day"
The super-neo-techno-wigwam living would involve having ultra-energy-efficient appliances.
"Could your techno cyber wig wam be like a biodiesel school bus or an RV maybe? "
Of. First of all it isn't 'techno cyber wig wam'; it's super-neo-techno-wigwam. :P Secondly, I would like the who super-neo-techno-wigwam 'kit' to be portable by 1 hiker.
I like the idea of using available materials at the location to help 'set up' the super-neo-techno-wigwam, but I also want it to be assemble-able anywhere, despite the availability of any supplies in the vicinity. (btw could someone please explain why assemblable isn't a word?).
Well I won't say its imposible all together, but its not feasible
by todays technologies. I wish you the best of luck with it...
(btw could someone please explain why assemblable isn't a word?)
Well you just used it like a word so its close enough...
~Dingus Mungus
Hello xenobard,
"The average person in the US uses 10 KW of electricity a day",
this can not be the base for "sustainable development" !
Nor 10 KWp(eak),neither 10 KWH per person/day !
I listend some concepts to show you "modern comfort" solutions,
this means also that kitchen/bath-room are stable ,as "basic cube",7-8sqm area !
Like www.buildwithcore.com/mini !
The kitchen/bath appliances have to be energy efficient !
The KWp(eak) shall be 3 KW,so the e-plant !
S
dL
3KW/day in solar still requires over 100 kilos of equipment.
With a wind turbine the same weight unless its designed
to be lighter than air, but then you need a heavy object to
tether the turbine to. I'm trying to think of something that
one man can carry that could provide 3KWh and it doesn't
exist yet to my knowledge. I really am trying to help here,
but the overall requirements are rather unrealistic to me.
I helped build a 1987 GMC school bus that drove from NYC
to LA on less than one tank of diesel fuel. Most of the time
it was running on free greasel we pilfered from restaurants.
We had to start on real fuel and get up to speed on real
fuel, but once we were moving we could switch the fuel line
to the fuel pump and change over to strained additive free
grease that was heated by the very engine it was running.
This also meant free electricity when parked. Simply start
the engine, let it idle till warm, switch the fuel and use the
inverter to charge phones, run lights and radios. A Greasel
RV is the most efficient nomadic home I have ever seen.
Why do you think a lot tour hippies own them???
~Dingus Mungus
Bom dia,Dingus Mungus :
you told me something,what has been my first info process-some years before !
I did not write about a 3 KWH per day consume,
I wrote to install a 3 KWp(eak) e-plant and to optimize the appliances efficiency ,
based by the
http://www.spacebox.info/
numbers:"Technical Information,page 3 and 4"
1,3 KWp(A) for room heating and 4,0 KWp(B) for kitchen/bath/light et c. e-consumer !
3 KWp= up to 8766 hours x 3 KW per year = 26298 KWH / year !
Optimizing the energetical need from 1,3 to 0,35 KWp(A) and 4,0 to 2,5 KWp (B)
give us the 3 KWp opportunity !
Gen-set:
From the conventional IC-engine/electric generator combination to the
Rolf Walge ic-engine/gear/electric generator concept,had been in the regional TV-news
and public exposed,
with 200% electric output improvement
(but the base is not maths-100% efficiency,neither Carnot-100%,as you know) !
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE3835502&F=0
Optimizing the alternator,probably with a "Symetron" controller www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/alternator.html or similar
improvement technology !
Using less fossil fuel, at first an hydrogen supply like:
http://www.autogas-india.com/fuelcell.html or similar devices,
then Bio-/Algae-Fuels,can be also hemp oil.
For the final stage a CO2-absorving process and 2 fuel-recycler:
but this only +/- 2 decades later !
These efficencies are real and approveable,
but not in geral use !
Not to forget the waste heat to electricity potential !
S
dL
I was thinking about the possibility of a portable hydrogen fuel generator producing hydrogen fuel from rain water and then using the hydrogen to produce electricity. I was also thinking about using this in conjunction with an electrolosis sytem that is built into the septic system whereby a 'battery' is created on site rather than it being lugged around from place to place. Using wind power, solar fabric, producing hydrogen fuel - if combined - could all act together to produce enough KW of energy to power a super-neo-techno wigwam.
Hydrogen is a way to store energy not make it.
So far it requires more energy to make hydrogen
than you'll get back out of it. So that idea needs
a bit more flushing out befor you could impliment
it. I am interested in hearing more about how a
septic battery's chemistry would work...
How heavy will this septic tank with electrodes be?
I too am interested in this septic battery idea.
Let us know more about this when you have some numbers.
"How heavy will this septic tank with electrodes be?"
About the same as a shipping container. :P
How are you going to make that portable???
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on June 05, 2007, 04:54:27 PM
How are you going to make that portable???
It is allready portable and mobile cleaning it out is no problem.
If you have a super-neo-techno-travel trailer or motorhome. DOH! :P
http://www.propulsiontech.com/apu.html
http://www.whispertech.co.nz/main/marine/
I really don't need people's ridicule.
People ridicule because they are too close-minded and lazy (often these are the same) to help think of solutions - for instance the solution to keeping all aspects of the super-duper-neo-techno-cool-wigwam portable.
Who ridiculed you?
I was simply pointing out lack of feasibility...
You said it needed to be portable to one man,
But then you said it would use a cargo container as a battery.
They're contraflicting statements... not ridicule...
I'm only trying to understand your concept and theory.
Frankly I'm in favor of researching anything that provides sovernty,
but I don't think you know what it is you need to accomplish that yet.
So in the mean time we'll all be poking at you plan until it stands up on its own.
Thats called peer review...
~Dingus Mungus
I believe the shipping container could be transported by truck, and the actual wigwams could be transported by person.
::shakes head::
Ok I'm not trying to ridicule you here xenobard, but if the battery requires a truck to get to the next nomadic destination, wouldn't it make more sence to just throw the wigwam on too? and maybe the person so they don't have to walk so far... A typical cargo container is powder coated carbon steel and starts at 8'x8'x9' and weighs 12 tons. I know this because I'm looking at buying some to build a workshop out of. It's
not exactly something you want to tow around if you know what I mean...
A portable wigwam that is truely portable... like one with wheels! (city/school bus)
Free diesel from vegie oil greasel... Free diesel generator... You can add solar shower.
I did it for 2 years man, it's not that expensive and I still think its what you want.
Or you could always use a solar DC motor combo and use it to move periodicly...
Your home/cargo would have to be "ultra light", due to deep cycle marine batteries.
Think of it this way: it can build a solar charge over 3 months to move you 10 miles.
Then its still one man portable and self sufficient with no CO2 footprint. (expensive tho)
Trust me man, we're all here for the same reason.
~Dingus Mungus
"Think of it this way: it can build a solar charge over 3 months to move you 10 miles.
Then its still one man portable and self sufficient with no CO2 footprint."
This idea is interesting. The shipping container is the center of the community, acting as the battery and the septic system. When it is in one location, so too is the community, living a hunting and gathering lifestyle. When the foord and game is depleted in the area, the shipping container / battery / septic system is moved to another location, and the community follows.
Now, I am thinking that this community would number in the hundreds - each carrying their wigwam and food along the journey to the next location of the community. It does not have to be very far - perhaps only 50 miles.
Now, it occurs to me that the ideal way to transport this cargo container / battery / septic tank would be by air - an air-ballon, perhaps. This way the community would not be limmited only to locations where there are roads.
This might be off topic, but has anyone concidered how to build a home that would last several thousand years. Maybe, a huge geodesic sphere that rolls or floats along the surface of the planet.
:-P
Dood...
Where are you going to get the lighter than air gasses every move.
Why does a flying battery make more sence than a flying turbine?
Don't you see you're adopting the least useful components of my ideas.
You as in YOU right now could be self sufficient!!!
WAKE UP! STOP DESIGNING A JOKE!
Think seriously about what you just described...
Flying a 12ton cargo container with helium.
I designed several self sufficient busses in the last few years.
I helped design and build all of them for less than 10k a piece.
You can stand around here pulling ideas out of your ass and
hoping they make sense or you could start being realistic.
~Dingus Mungus
Maybe I should beter explain why I said "pull an idea from your ass and hope it makes sense":
You would need a dozen ballons 12 meters in diameter to lift an empty cargo container...
Thats 10,860 cubic meters or 35,620 cubic feet of helium minimum... :o
Whats so bad about a fricken RV???
Whats so bad about a fricken RV???
Not much. It just doesn't sound very 'half-baked' :P
@bitRAKE
I like it. Sphere within a sphere - like a gyrscope - so the inner sphere remains horizontal.
Have you ever heard the old idiom:
"Why re-invent the wheel?"
RV's are designed as nomadic homes that one person can operate. You just aren't thinking about ways to improve on the idea to make it what you want. You were saying a several hundred person village could follow around your septic/battery system, right? So if the RV's purpose was to carry arround 100 wigwams and supply power and cargo tranportation, it would be what you're looking for. Ironicly when I was travelling and touring with my bus companions thats exactly what our busses did. Carry 1-15 people from place to place, carry everyones gear even people not riding, provide 2kw RMS of AC power, and carry its own self contained septic system. We only bought 100$ in fuel twice over a one year period and that was only because we were in a cold climate that wouldn't allow for unheated greasel combustion. You know I'm not trying to trick you in to something stupid and so far I've heard no other affordable or even remotely feasible solution to your concepts discussed requirements.
Now rather than just shoot down my concept maybe you could pitch a better one.
@bitRAKE
I think who ever built the pyrimds beat us to it...
~Dingus Mungus