Hy,
I hope i post this thread on good section,
I discover yet a part of Berden Website i never seen:
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm (http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm)
he publish this motor schematic:
(it seem like Harry Paul Sprain.)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheniere.org%2Ftechpapers%2Fjap%2Ffig8b.jpg&hash=f2e28c70174c80eb372303ed827e048c43c0ce3b)
he said:
"The Magnetic Wankel engine should also be capable of COP > 1.0 and closed-loop self-powering, but apparently it has also been suppressed, as have all Japanese COP > 1.0 EM systems."
What mean "also been suppressed, as have all japanese COP > 1" ?
Here some apparently John Bedini Wankel working Replication:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheniere.org%2Fimages%2Fbedwankel04.jpg&hash=6a6dc51a472b4cfa5297ed9ec08fc3379cd00ab0)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheniere.org%2Fimages%2Fbedwankel05.jpg&hash=221b2c414ee4c6f01c2e2c4dc70abf630b4a7914)
Here is an idea of how to "self run" it:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel.jpg&hash=b1b6b0fcc467801083d3e0f4a7c069121f3578b2)
Here a first id?ea schematic:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_schematic.jpg&hash=12bd904b9f43705ac3c393e1085a343651957688)
What do you think motor and my id?a ?
Does some other replications existes ?
Does my idea is an utopia ?
Molux
Build it!
ASAP! :)
and share it here with us, open source tech.
Hy,
:) Yes i want, i prepare my orders to get the material first for building a Bedini's replications, first and SG and if i'm lucky a Rick like replication.
But a magnet more or not or copper wire add in my orders it great to have all material in one time.
So i want to list the material to try it, but if the schematic or first reflexion are not great, i have to do an other, order, with delivery cost, etc...
For example, in our workgroup, Loubar member say that we have to put a diode per energizer coil for they work propely
here the modified schematic:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_schematic_v2.jpg&hash=6ccbf7a7e2e26815d12df1b7cfd8f5c315514345)
But i have know id?a for begin to get a range of size of coils or diode or transistor, etc...if you have an (in french =>) "intuition", tell me it please ?
If you have some, or you know other replication on the same process, can you tell me ?
Thanks,
Sorry for my expression please
Molux
Hy,
I find a video under uTube wich show the principe of Wqnkel Magnetic Motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4)
Enjoy
Molux
Quote from: molux on May 31, 2007, 06:37:17 AM
But i have know id?a for begin to get a range of size of coils or diode or transistor, etc...if you have an (in french =>) "intuition", tell me it please ?
Molux
"intuition" works fine in English. Also "idea".
Why not wind your own coils? Do you have a hand drill or an electric
drill with a speed control? As a starting pooint, have a look at this:
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/howto/windingcoils.htm
I think this motor of Yasunori Takahashi is very interesting. Anyone who
gave us Betamax video system and neodymium magnets is worth checking
out.
Paul.
Hello Paul,
QuoteI think this motor of Yasunori Takahashi is very interesting. Anyone who
gave us Betamax video system and neodymium magnets is worth checking
out.
Thanks for this information, perhaps i have to do what you say, i buy several kind of copper wire and i try some setups.
Thanks for intuition ;).
(a new word it's good for my poor english language)
Molux
I all,
I have collected some interesting informations about Wankel:
Starts:
Apprently, the first inventor of this kind of moteur is Tekko Kure (Japon), Takahashi continue the work under Wankel Magnetic like Paul Sprain or Tom Bearden
Interesting Address:
http://quanthomme.free.fr/energielibre/energie/MG_ReedWerjefelt2.htm (http://quanthomme.free.fr/energielibre/energie/MG_ReedWerjefelt2.htm)
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm (http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm)
http://ufoenergy.com/magneticgenerator/news_2007-05-11-17-48-07-327.html (http://ufoenergy.com/magneticgenerator/news_2007-05-11-17-48-07-327.html)
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/1979Paper (http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/1979Paper)
http://www.callowayengines.com (http://www.callowayengines.com)
Some Stator Setup idea
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_stator_setup_1.jpg&hash=b56d71013caee9ad805a91351ae379ac8011b48e)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_stator_setup_2.jpg&hash=7b94b2159ca0d547f9ea9e88f0411b475f58cebf)
Documents
Here some picture came from the document more down
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_regauging.jpg&hash=4b8dd808bd6568acb0da6f349627126b67c0fbc5)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_simulation.jpg&hash=a0c6abb27583740249be6b841bc12afe0382afd0)
You can get it here
http://www.arlingtoninstitute.org/library/LODER.PPT (http://www.arlingtoninstitute.org/library/LODER.PPT)
Or mirrored here:
http://www.syscoil.org/medias/storages/user_3/wankel.pps (http://www.syscoil.org/medias/storages/user_3/wankel.pps)
Replication
Here some replication
Paul Monus R?plication:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_replication_paul_monus.jpg&hash=c23da9a52baf4ed00946dd193043f1f633a4ebe1)
Paul Sprain R?plication:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_replication_paul_sprain.jpg&hash=b3b38499f26872d9aa822d3ad780398cc8edddd2)
Ted Loder R?plication
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_replication_ted_loder_1.jpg&hash=23255c5aefac6647c3e8a823e43abb6f7bc6e5a2)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_replication_ted_loder_2.jpg&hash=7e944a2976215c0f44c3b18e9ec93eaa3df27a25)
John Bedini / Tom Berarden Replication
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_replication_john_bedini.jpg&hash=152d6b42ec9c8772357939b75d84fa2976a12918)
David Scott R?plication
A document about magnetic wabkel for cars:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_art_1.jpg&hash=13771af96f7eb700dfc5190d7c16810e1081c6d8)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_art_2.jpg&hash=15d87a422d6e7521263cb71cdf5e0ffd3765e184)
Vid?os
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFSqsDHWYo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFSqsDHWYo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H07vGnZot0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H07vGnZot0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFTlL2sDb-s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFTlL2sDb-s)
I think i'm not alone intersting about this process, if you have more information or intuition about my suggested modifications, tell me it please
Molux
Hy all,
I dont have all material a the moment but i quickly build a small replique for basic testing.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_01a.jpg&hash=c9eda1f20db80b5c67c2b977a229a43e9def8e03)
Assembly replique
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_01b.jpg&hash=7af8d510a2b99a3036315a7af479533df401e02d)
Disassembled replique, in center of stator, the floppy disk driver "ball bearing"
This replique have so many probl?me, the position of magnets (slop) it important and badly build under my little gate.
Here a simple vid?o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soAsTz-eBfo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soAsTz-eBfo)
I have to make some test before put a coil under that
Molux
Quote from: molux on June 04, 2007, 06:39:44 PM
Hy all,
I dont have all material a the moment but i quickly build a small replique for basic testing......
Molux
If you are looking for good copper enammelled wire, and can find an old
scrapped microwave oven, open it up. Look for the large transformer,
and cut through the steel very carefuylly with an angle grinder. With
a great deal of difficulty you will get to three or more coils, one thick
copper wire, and the others thinner. (Also two ceramic magnets in
the magnetron unit on the side of the cooking chamber.
Paul.
Hy Paul-R
Good suggestion, i want to find a greater rotor magnet position before put a coil under this replication. I have a small TV that just clashing (left the color after 10 min), i think a can get some copper wire too on it. An certainly big capacitor.
Thanks for your interest Paul-R
Molux
If you are scrapping the TV, you could wrap the tube in a cloth and
then smash the neck with a hammer (to make it safe from implosion).
Then lever off the yoke which is half way along the neck. This will
give you copper wire if you have the patience to unwrap it. Also,
a nice ferrite torroid. (see TPU devices on this site).
Paul.
Hy,
Thank Paul-R for your recommandations, i going to do it safely, with strong glasses, etc...
I just finish a second experiment under magnetic wankel, i rebuild rotor, i try to reduce the gap and adding some magnets, all the same, all in opposit to the rotor
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02a.jpg&hash=95b11898971ba4302d70ecabc726f2a679c407ff)
Assembly replication
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02b.jpg&hash=fbd332685faaa0a09d964e920fcfe62e9c7f0018)
Small Zoom
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02d.jpg&hash=856c492abb178b111196eabf1cfd2444429a3b21)
Disassembly the rotor
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02c.jpg&hash=4a58bf5d38d4f2a89ee1470475568b023b0f53cd)
What a great rotor magnet fixation
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02g.jpg&hash=cd864d90cb6f749203f4dbac4b13d7127205d755)
Positon rotor magnet vs stator magnet
It's catastrohpic, they are "dead" point, some equilibrum point or attracting point on my ramp. This 4ths dead point break the rotor speed quickly
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02f.jpg&hash=b4e3a32e779e75211565dc5e423087660ccea9c7)
This is a dead point, when i littly push the rotor + or - 5 mm both side, the rotor magnet dance a little and break on the dead point
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_02e.jpg&hash=3c77ac6a1a03bcb1ebcb499c1e57d9457d41502d)
an other view for the relative placement stator magnet vs rotor magnet
This is the damn demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4q-pWjb5EQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4q-pWjb5EQ)
Here the dead point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tafyWNRie3s
My ramp seem so bad, a disassembly the rotor replication to v?rify my magnet, and on thos dead points i have a great repulstion, but if i pushing up the magnet i quicly lose the repultion. i try to put down the rotor magnet to check if it's avoid the deads points
Thank for read my bad english expression,
(please excuse me)
Molux
Hy,
Ok, i just cut my CD to put down the rotor magnet, the glueing is not very beautiful but it glue. This setup is more powerfull than the previous. There is some dead points, i have to correct that before adding a coil.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03b.jpg&hash=24f572e4768ae5ced2885e1d6f31832eb3af1a20)
The replication 3
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03d.jpg&hash=0fa8d6598afa6a537666e3e62400ba84f1276194)
The rotor magnet glueing...damn...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03a.jpg&hash=e6fc7d15dcf9952d122514ce6f0f7e69121a5f9c)
Here the rotor
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03c.jpg&hash=02f98ea41f8dfcdd23829151a106034854ccf50f)
Those magnet a shortly face to face
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03e.jpg&hash=6634ad2a037d4af50031f9fd38375f590f23ad5a)
A other view
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03f.jpg&hash=bceb21784ba135aea7019dfe2ded0bd0496c4a40)
Here we can see the floppy driver "roller".
Here a vid?o of the manipulation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFJSlMcgh1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFJSlMcgh1A)
Here a complet "not complete" turn..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEhNyALL8z8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEhNyALL8z8)
thanks for read me, all suggests are welcome
(Excuse my so badly english expression)
Molux
Hy,
Here a "simulation" of the coil:
(It's hard to simulate and get webcam a the same time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJkL3L-344 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJkL3L-344)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_otiHjgC_8Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_otiHjgC_8Q)
Molux
The glue on the rotor disc will need to be strong. Is it Araldite
or an epoxy resin type glue? You could think of fixing a piece of
wood (the same thickness as your magnet) to the rotor, and cut
out a slot for the magnet to sit in.
Paul.
Hy Paul-R,
I use a hot glue, perhaps it's not strond enougth, i goind to glue it with araldythe;
I just gest a coil from a 24V relay (http://www.syscoil.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35), here some simulation:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fbobine_relais_07.jpg&hash=ed0147d3ce1e69ca9ee9ee9b68afba5ad536b75d)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03g.jpg&hash=5e8bc3dba3d963b7c044fdd12a6b952b0fccf697)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03h.jpg&hash=49d126c90d013503f7bc52797b677818c96de8ef)
I have to find a reed switch or other solution, i would like to apply this schematic first
(a simple motor) and see power in.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_schematic_motor_01.jpg&hash=4536b542a47400438edcecc0da41d5d25de958e5)
Someone ask him about magnet:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Faimant_placard_5.jpg&hash=112eba27ff6ea92baf7ada0c987019725bca4536)
If you whant to see where my magnet came from, click here (http://www.syscoil.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23)
Have you got an id?a to replace a reed switch by other thing ?
Molux
I reckon you will need something stronger than hot glue. There
will be a heavy kick to get the rotor magnet past the first couple
of stator magnets.
When you take the voltage off the electromagnet, you will get
the back emf kick-back. Can you store this in a capacitor, and
use it the next revolution or on another disc on the same shaft?
(Maybe in due course).
Paul.
Hello,
Really thanks Thanks Paul-R for your attention, i'm feeling not alone...
QuoteI reckon you will need something stronger than hot glue. There
will be a heavy kick to get the rotor magnet past the first couple
of stator magnets.
Ho yes, i going do follow this recommandation strictly, i have heard some experiment that badly finish with magent fly on a screen or on the eye.
QuoteWhen you take the voltage off the electromagnet, you will get
the back emf kick-back. Can you store this in a capacitor, and
use it the next revolution or on another disc on the same shaft?
If i understand, in other words you suggest remove the D4 diode, used to protect T1 from the back emf and wrappe the coil correctly to get this back EMF in a capacitor.
What i dont think that by myself ! It's very good id?a to not lost this energy in the Head of a diode ! Another Thanks Paul-R !
I'm going to think on the schematic to insert your id?a.
QuoteMaybe in due course
I keep what i think a hall sensor from the floppy disk driver and the little magnet
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fcapteur_hall_01.jpg&hash=00d7d4c1bb51eb7870bb6f0b5c112ea01064ff5f)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fcapteur_hall_02.jpg&hash=86569d540076a28720be784f61358a5dfd09501c)
I dont find the datasheet (mark: 550 WJ1), but in our small french workgroup someone help me to try to find the good pin circuit.
I set you connected
Molux
Hy,
I just do a little test say "a l'arrache" to see what my coil can do
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03i.jpg&hash=e94f7ed35d48194ce8d2da41a751316cd5c7b816)
Here the manipulation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWbGCYVkq0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWbGCYVkq0)
Here my ramp problems:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pmlOU4PeZk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pmlOU4PeZk)
I have to rebuild my ramp
Molux
Salut Molux,
J'?tais entrain de regarder les videos de ton moteur Wankell et je vois que dans l'exemple 2a le disque tourne plus lentement que dans 3b. As-tu chang? la configuration des stators? Peux-tu m'expliquer un peu qu'elle est la configuration qui fontionne le mieux pour que le disque tourne plus rapidement?
Merci! Joe!
Hy Joe,
Ok, i think we can't speak french here, because it's an international forum and there is a section to speak french, so it start a french thread here if you want:
http://www.syscoil.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28 (http://www.syscoil.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28)
We are going to be "rouspeted" if we continue...
QuoteJ'?tais entrain de regarder les videos de ton moteur Wankell et je vois que dans l'exemple 2a le disque tourne plus lentement que dans 3b. As-tu chang? la configuration des stators? Peux-tu m'expliquer un peu qu'elle est la configuration qui fontionne le mieux pour que le disque tourne plus rapidement?
I'm looking your video ans i see video 2a seems to turn slowly than 3b video. What did you change ? can you explain me what is the better configuration for best speedYes, you have right, on 2a video the magnet is put
under the CD with scoth
The magnet is so hight, Under video 3b i cut the CD to put the magnet in the middle
like that:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_03f.jpg&hash=bceb21784ba135aea7019dfe2ded0bd0496c4a40)
It increase greater efficency than first setup.
For the explaination of the better setup, i trying some configuration, you can see all in video under youtube.
Here some other experiment:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_04a.jpg&hash=5b458e6cf886684cc6d557ba0a79c7b3d7aa8043)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_04b.jpg&hash=74a5fa0ca7b898f53c71875fde30b17f3f4ae4be)
Two ramp trying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixxfb0LL-rA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixxfb0LL-rA)
A new ramp (so bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhIChHgrtE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhIChHgrtE)
I have to try other setup, perhaps i have to try with inclined rotor magnet or put the stator magnet on the height to reduce the magnet tangent size.
Molux
On the subject of back emf, it is important (I think) to
remember that IT IS YOUR FRIEND. Do not block it or
soak it up in a resistor. I believe that Tom Bearden said
somewhere that this is the energy that will make your
device over unity. (N.B. the Minuteman Missile story).
Paul.
Hy,
QuoteOn the subject of back emf, it is important (I think) to
remember that IT IS YOUR FRIEND. Do not block it or
soak it up in a resistor. I believe that Tom Bearden said
somewhere that this is the energy that will make your
device over unity. (N.B. the Minuteman Missile story).
Paul.
Right, it's writen
Here a simple experiment to view the using of the coil for generator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtTRdQQUs_I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtTRdQQUs_I)
Here an repultion equilibrum probleme
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_maquette_04c.jpg&hash=c221b58d8d50e6d16da520cd1905d962b40c3dfa)
I push out a magnet on a dead point and the dead point stay here ! We can see it's a repultion equilibre
There is a particulare shape to this well and forget the equilibrum point... can someone know the answer ?
Molux
Are the stator magnets of exactly the same strength?
The rotor should not stop in that position. You need a
magnet at Magnet Position 3. Maybe you should take
one off the end, and try that instead. Also, you will need
enough magnets on the stator to reach around to the
start (less a little room for the electromagnet).
Paul.
Hy,
I think there is a confusion.
The picture just before, it's a new bad ramp born dead.
I have a dead point on this position WITH the 3th magnet, so i try to keep out to view what append, and it append that the dead point stay here !
Molux
One thing to keep in mind from the original Wankel design is that all the gaps are kept within the linear region of the magnet. That should provide the best power conversion. The way the above ramps are set up you have a significantly decreasing power curve compared to what you would have if the gap were kept in the magnets linear region.
I've been doing lot's of research on the Magnetic Wankel Motor the last couple of days.
It's a very interesting idea of having just one stroke per revolution to keep it spinning.
But the sheer lack of real scientific information on the internet tells that there is really
nothing special with the Wankel motors that could provide overunity. It might be efficient
but it's torque cannot be increased beyond the capacity of the magnets used.
I understand that the concept is very intriguing but people is given false hopes on this design.
There is a number of Magnetic Wankel Motors out there but none of them have ever proven overunity.
The inventors are also acting like worst case scenario scam artists and never let's independent
scientist groups test their inventions. Please read this link about the free energy scam problem.
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
Quote from: Honk on July 05, 2007, 05:21:14 PM
I've been doing lot's of research on the Magnetic Wankel Motor the last couple of days.
It's a very interesting idea of having just one stroke per revolution to keep it spinning.
But the sheer lack of real scientific information on the internet tells that there is really
nothing special with the Wankel motors that could provide overunity. It might be efficient
but it's torque cannot be increased beyond the capacity of the magnets used.
I understand that the concept is very intriguing but people is given false hopes on this design.
There is a number of Magnetic Wankel Motors out there but none of them have ever proven overunity.
The inventors are also acting like worst case scenario scam artists and never let's independent
scientist groups test their inventions. Please read this link about the free energy scam problem.
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
Hi Honk,
Do you know if any of these "independent scientist groups" are willing to test devices for free and confidentially? That would be really nice if they did. Are there any in the USA?
Sorry, I don't know of any specific group, but any motor company would gladly
confirm the results (if there is any) from an overunity motor.
The inventors should also be open minded and not afraid to tell exactly how it works.
Every little detail. Unless they do this, they will never be taken seriously
This place is a good starter. The more people that can confirm the overunity gain
the more we all gain. It should not be about the money, but for the better world.
Quote from: Honk on July 05, 2007, 05:21:14 PM
I've been doing lot's of research on the Magnetic Wankel Motor the last couple of days.
It's a very interesting idea of having just one stroke per revolution to keep it spinning.
But the sheer lack of real scientific information on the internet tells that there is really
nothing special with the Wankel motors that could provide overunity.
Topm Bearden suggests that the "regauging area" is where the energy movement
takes place, a key to the overunity energy equation:
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm
Paul.
The acctual magnetic sideway push force of an angled acctuator system like the Wankel motor is just
a fraction of the total push force from the magnets which work against the rotor shaft, e.g the center of
the circular movement. A wankel motor does simply not have the properties needed to reach overunity.
In the free spinn loop there is very little power to push the rotor magnet forward, and even in a system
using very strong neodymium magnets that are tilted to get maximum torque and RPM it's still very weak
compaired to other solutions.
When free looping any load will rapidly brake the rotor. The only point where the push force is really
strong is in the gap of the motor where the electro magnet is placed.
Therefore the Wankel concept ain't taking of as a serious motor alternative.
It does work but it can't deliver the torque needed to produce any real solid output.
Another bad feature is that the motor cannot be fed more current to produce more power like
an ordinary motor. Once the electro magnet have a strong enough magnetic pulse to swing the rotor
past the bump you can't increase the power output from the motor by increasing the kick pulse power.
It's the use of strong magnets and the angle of their magnetization direction that determines the
strength of a Wankel motor.
Compaired to other motors the Wankel is a high cost and limited output motor with no usuable features.
In my book Tom Bearden is a scam artist full of bogus. Nothing he's ever been involved in have ever
been proven to work. It's just his own words and no independent test reports to prove his statements.
If you guys would like to see the flux lines you are dealing with . Try this
http://www.magnetostatics.us/index.htm
Quote from: Honk on July 06, 2007, 11:52:00 AM
The acctual magnetic sideway push force of an angled acctuator system like the Wankel motor is just
a fraction of the total push force from the magnets which work against the rotor shaft, e.g the center of
the circular movement. A wankel motor does simply not have the properties needed to reach overunity.
When free looping any load will rapidly brake the rotor.
Interesting.
What was the output shaft power on your motor, and what was the joule input to the coil?
Did you re-use the back emf?
Paul.
I have not built an entire motor. I have just tested magnets in the angled configuration
as the wankel motor. These simple test made it pretty clear that not much of the force
was directed to push the rotor around. But towards the shaft the force was tremendous.
I used very strong N50 neomags in this test, 0.75" long, 0.4" wide, 0.3" thick. Very strong and
almost impossible to work with. A lot of frustation but I finally got the result I was looking for.
Quote from: Honk on July 07, 2007, 11:18:55 AM
I have not built an entire motor.
Your opinion is worth as much as any opinion based on half a motor.
Here's a working wankel motor.
www.lafontegroup.com
Please notice how easy he can stop the rotor. It's very weak. Almost no torque.
In a regular motor that's just not possible.
Quote from: JackH on June 08, 2007, 09:26:49 PM
The wankel motor is one that I have seen running it's self.
However it would only run it's self and would only run about
three days and you needed to replace the magnets.
Remember the wankel motor uses repulson mode on the magnets
and that will depleate the magnets over time.
For any motor that will continue to operate for extended periods,
the magnets will allways need to be in atraction mode.
I have seen that with my motor, if I increase the current until it overpowers
the permanent magnet just a little bit, it will not run for long.
As long as I run the current until it only matches the permanent magnet it
will run for ever with out destroying the magnets.
Thanks,,,,,,,Later,,,,,,JackH
When the current in the coil matches flux field of the magnets = putting two magnets
side by side of the same size and strength, N to N and S to S. They don't get destroyed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking about the risk of demagnetizing when using magnets in repel mode.
Perhaps it's not a problem if the shape, force and thickness is the same on both
the Stator and Rotor magnets. Then no flux field will overpower the other.
I know that Jack in his valve equals the electro magnet to match the neo mag in strength.
In the valve, the fields are put side by side, N to N and S to S.
If he use a N50 magnet (1.45 tesla) then the electro magnet is set to 1.45 tesla as well.
Because the Neo is equal to the Electro magnet the Neo is not demagnetized.
But when he increases the field in the electro magnet above 1.45 tesla he will soon
demagnetize the magnet.
You can also see it like this. Imagine a 2" x 1" neo magnet. That's not demagnetizing by itself.
Then break it into two 1" x 1" pieces. Now try to glue them back together like it was before.
Well no you can't because the two pieces are repelling each other like hell.
But they ones were attached together and that did not demagnetize them at all.
So, if two separate magnets with the same force and shape are put in repel mode
they will not become demagnetized. It's only when one of the magnets are stronger than the
other one that there should be a risk of demagnetizing.
This makes me believe that when the repel force of the stator and rotor magnets are equal
in strength they must also survive in a wankel motor, just like in Jacks Hilden-Brand valve.
If so, then a repelled Wankel motor is easier to build and a more attractive design.
The repelling force of the magnets are also stronger than the attracting force.
That makes a more compact and powerful design if one should try the Wankel Motor concept.
Best of all. In repel mode one can use Jacks magnet boosted valve to create the needed
kick pulse to keep the motor running. The valve consumes 1/4 of the power of compaired
to a regular electro magnet to reach a certain flux field. That increases the efficiency a lot.
Then I'd run the electro magnet valve on my Flux Booster Controller (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2386.msg36184.html#msg36184) that slashes the input
power by 9 to 13 times depending on the RPM. Using this setup might bring the Wankel to OU.
Hi Honk,
Another thing I was wondering about is that there doesn't seem to be a full magnetic path in this spiral motor as there is in Jacks motor. Ensuring an enclosed path would increase efficiency.
Albert
Hi Albert.
It's difficult to compaire these two motors in a fair way.
Jack's motor have tons of torque but it's only efficient at lower RPM's, but with my Flux Booster Controller I
think that we will get high efficiency and tons of torque at great RPM's as well = Lot's of useful Hp
If you close the gap of a Wankel motor it will not run. It slides along the widening of the gap seeking more or less flux.
But the Wankel Motor will need lot's of extremely strong and expensive magnets to produce any useful torque.
Wether it has to operate at high RPM's to get really powerful I just don't know due to lack of information.
The big advantage is that it opererates in power saving mode because of the small pulses to run it.
Hi Honk,
I wasn't refering to the gap between the rotor and stator magnets, I meant the return path for the flux once its crossed the gap. The flux always creates a loop. it must return to the magnet it started from. In this spiral motor it doesn't appear to have a return path except through the air. I realise that Jacks motor has a different operating principle, I was merely pointing out that Jacks motor has a complete path for the flux in contrast to this spiral motor. I also agree that spiral motors by design have limited potntial for torque generation.
Regards
Albert
Hi.
You don't need a return path to run a motor.
The advantage of a return path is that it amplifies the force of the magnet.
But you can just as well use twice as thick and more expensive magnets to
get the same force with no return path. This is the case of the Wankel motor.
Adding cheap back iron to the magnets will also amplify the flux by two. This can be done easily.
You need to get rid of the Distributor and the battery. I did this in another post already.
Here goes, are you familiar with power overlap in combustion engines? On your experiment with the tape on the CD try adding two more magnets spaced equally apart (120 degrees) on the cd. This way 2 magnets will push the other magnet past the dead spot. You still won't get enough power to measure but will it run on it's own? Then try 5 layers on the same armature, now you have ten magnets pushing, you should find a little power being produced. You say all right wize guy try it, I'm going to just as soon as I find the magnets. To increase torque you will need to increase the diameter of the flywheel. The more powerful the magnets the more power. You are losing mechanical power at the distributor and inputting power to drive an electro-magnet, these may be power losses that are unnecessary. Something wrong with looking for something for nothing?
Hy All,
Sorry,i have an Internet connection probleme and lot of work and i just rebecome in this thread, i have a lot of read to participate... I read you this nigths and reply
Bye
Molux
Quote from: Honk on July 11, 2007, 08:01:25 AM
You can also see it like this. Imagine a 2" x 1" neo magnet. That's not demagnetizing by itself.
Then break it into two 1" x 1" pieces. Now try to glue them back together like it was before.
Well no you can't because the two pieces are repelling each other like hell.
This is not so. If you break a magnet in that fashion, the two poieces
will not need sticking together. They will attract
At first:
N----------------------------S
after:
N----------S N-------------S
Paul.
Quote from: raburgeson on July 11, 2007, 10:57:34 PM
You need to get rid of the Distributor and the battery. I did this in another post already.
Here goes, are you familiar with power overlap in combustion engines? On your experiment with the tape on the CD try adding two more magnets spaced equally apart (120 degrees) on the cd. This way 2 magnets will push the other magnet passed the dead spot. You still won't get enough power to measure but will it run on it's own? Then try 5 layers on the same armature, now you have ten magnets pushing, you should find a little power being produced. You say all right wize guy try it, I'm going to just as soon as I find the magnets. To increase torque you will need to increase the diameter of the flywheel. The more powerful the magnets the more power. You are losing mechanical power at the distributor and inputting power to drive an electro-magnet, these may be power losses that are unnecessary. Something wrong with looking for something for nothing?
the only problem adding more magnet on the rotor is you need to pulse more the coil per rotation, so at the end, you use more current, adding more magnet on the rotor is good if you need more power from the motor
for this kind of motor i see its better to have 2 magnets in the rotor instead of 3 or more
Quote from: Paul-R on July 12, 2007, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: Honk on July 11, 2007, 08:01:25 AM
You can also see it like this. Imagine a 2" x 1" neo magnet. That's not demagnetizing by itself.
Then break it into two 1" x 1" pieces. Now try to glue them back together like it was before.
Well no you can't because the two pieces are repelling each other like hell.
This is not so. If you break a magnet in that fashion, the two poieces
will not need sticking together. They will attract
At first:
N----------------------------S
after:
N----------S N-------------S
Paul.
If the 2" long x 1" wide x 1" thick neo magnet is magnetized through it's thickness and broken
into two 1x1x1" magnets then you will put N to N and S to S when putting it back together.
Of course I meant it by this way, or else the question was meaningless.
At first:
N
|
S
after break:
N N
| |
S S
My wife held the magnet order up a couple of days, trying to buy them here. I notice most of the power is lost pushing straight against the armature. Just conceptualising here, doodling if you will. We need to find a way around that. I like the idea of using a CD holder for a load bearing flywheel though, very good on someones part. The bearing seems to be quite efficient. Has anyone tried placing 2 spirals above and below the plane of the flywheel magnet, maybe with the leading edges tipped toward the plane of the flywheel?
Can't wait till they get here, they're probably sending them ground UPS snail delivery.
The best angle for a rail gun is probably the best angle for the spiral. I haven't found it on the net yet, there are just so many ways to atack this, another thing to try might be making a spiraled v shaped rail inside and outside of the path of the flywheel magnet. Well I have 4 rolls of tape and I'm waiting inpatiently, that's the way I always wait.
Hy,
I have not the time to read your pr?vious posts but i show you an intersting id?a of a magnetic wankel
(I have to take time to read all of you, i'm french with so bad english and it take me a long time to understand each post)
This id?a come from "toto65" under a french ecologique forum named http://www.econologie.com
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_serpent_1a.jpg&hash=6c9e63bf72506eb985d45ecbf53dfea217f1cf47)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syscoil.org%2Fmedias%2Fstorages%2Fuser_3%2Fwankel_serpent_1b.jpg&hash=4df874cc1d3a94988b1030ab10dd9ca130689218)
What do you think about ?
I know it's hard to build this kind of magnet but with a flexible pipe and magnet inside ?
Adding a coil and..... zou.... ;)
Molux
That looks like a real good idea to try. I was thinking of 2 sets making a curved railgun track. Someone said a great truth when they said most of the force is being directed at the armature. I was trying to get rid of that problem. Also I'm hoping 2 driven magnets drive a third magnet through the area you are pulsing, through with out a pulse.
at all:
just continue the figure 8 stator as was posted, and i think you might have something. it might even look like an infinity, symbol. i wonder why? some might even think it resembles a cadusious coil. i wonder why?
lol
sam
Hi,
do these motors actually turn freely up to the sticky point.
Its similar to an idea i have but need to know if these rotary type of motors turn freely up until the gap or sticky point, as this would give me incentive to get my project off the ground.
The only reason i hadnt bothered was because of thinking of a way to overcome the sticky point, and out of the blue a unique mechanical idea came to me.
The main similarity that these wankel magnet motors have to my idea is the way in which the magnets go from a small gap to a larger gap.
If any members have built these and have them rotating freely up to the sticky point, please post a reply.
thanks. mike
Yes, they turn and gain speed until the end of the magnets. I am thinking that a mechanical combination of the dual oscillator pendulium and the wankel motor may work. Just use the mechanical oscillator to regauge the wankel and use the stored flywheel energy to reenergize the pendulium.
Rich
Thanks for that.
the idea i had, without giving too much away, is to have numerous magnets in the system at the same time, but only 1 magnet leaves the system, and only 1 enters the system or the sticky point during 1 revolution.
This is different to the wankel idea as if you had say 20 magnets on the shaft there would be 20 magnets leaving and entering the sticky point in 1 revolution. (so the situation is still the same as having 2 magnets).
So if the combination of say 20 magnets have more force than than the one entering at the sticky point,this should overcome the force needed to bring the new magnet into the system.
The only problem is that to make the mechanical means to achieve this would take a very long time.
The strange thing about this is that i had been thinking about how to achieve this for a long time,
and out of the blue in a relaxed state of mind without even thinking about it the idea came to me.
Every idea i have seen does not have this idea, they either have 1 or more magnets that that enter and exit the system in 1 revolution.
Mike.
Unless I'm missing something in the regauging, you will only be storing the energy derived from the first magnets rotation by bridging the gap for the second (and beyond) magnets. It's like an Adsitt ramp, he originally thought he could loop it not realizing the only energy he was seeing was the initial entry energy placed in the system at magnet's release.
Rich