http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00OubltKORg
more info middle of blog FreeEnergy
http://blog.myspace.com/adamflownemo
history101 of how the electron is measured
The invention of measuring an electron came by a tricky method in using electricity in a vacuum tube.the smaller battery was connected normally, but the larger battery?s negative terminal was connected to the smaller battery?s negative terminal, and the positive terminal was left alone. That connection gave the negative terminal a double dose of strength, and so it became hotter and could push more. It was called cathode and the positive terminal anode. And the electricity that passed from the cathode to the anode was called electrons.The trouble with the physicists is they use indirect and ultra-indirect methods to come to their conclusions.
ENGLISH = that we measure current wrong from the getgo......
With that said.
place 2,4,6, whatever amount of magnets north out on a rotor.
iron bolt wrapped with copper magnet wire over 450 turns
attache ends of coper wires to voltage meter and spin rotor
every time the magnet passes infront of coil a voltage ACDC is produced.
increase size of wire for more voltage or decrease and add more for amp.
voltage produced needs to be fed back to drive coils to push magnets on rotor back towards pickupcoil.A Hallchip or 2n3055 will time it. a battery can be used on demo models advanced models couple to alternators, generators, step motors ..a rechargeable battery is used in demo models is needed to is tjust a way to start and store the power it. or like i do spin with my finger ,,,, its the magnets passing the coil that generate power..its looking at the electric motor ouside the box...
1.magnets are pushed away when the same poles are facing together north to north.= makes the rotor spin.
2.when a magnet passed infront of a coil of copper magnetic wire around iron a voltage is produced.
diag
Good Stuff Adam
Keep it coming.
Regards
Sean.
can we get some close layout pictures? voltage readings etc... i'd love to attempt a replication if i can figure out how you did it/what you used.... looks quite interesting.
i found a little info here, maybe it can help some one make this.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1287/adams/adamsall.htm
(this might have been linked befor, i havent looked over all the threads to see if it was)
hope these links help you
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/ElectromagneticDev/donadsitt/Plans/horizontal.htm
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/howto/windingcoils.htm
http://www.rexresearch.com/1index.htm
I have been trying to study and understand the Adams Motor design. I see the motor as an attraction motor rather than a repulsion motor. The magnets in the rotor are attracted to the core of the coil; as each core is demagnetized the next rotor magnet is in place to be attracted to the core; this attraction,as well as the inertia of the moving rotor, drives the rotor. Am I seeing this correctly?
Peter
No, not really Peter , the magnets are placed north out on the rotor. 2 of the 3 coils are drive coils and when current runs thru them become north also so push the rotor away. The 3rd coil is a pickup and when the magnets on the rotor pass it a current is made and redirected to the 2 drive coils and excess voltage is sent to the battery?
Yea that?s the story ???.
Peace
Thanks for the info.
Are the magnets on the rotor attracted to the coil cores? Is a current also made when the magnets pass the drive coils and if so, can this current be recovered?
Peter
no problem Peter, good questions and I know what your getting at.
will try to answer you ....
yes the magnets on the rotor are attracted to the coil cores.
and yes a current is also made when the magnets pass the drive coils
and yes this current can be recovered
and that setup is used when only 1 coil is used in a system
like this http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/ElectromagneticDev/gene_nelms/PulseMotorGene.htm
BUT please take note that the single coil (1coil drive-pickup type )will not recharge a battery and run 4ever,, it will run till the battery drains......
when multiple coils are placed in a system, the pickup coils will do a great job at recharging the battery and keeping the system running 4ever,, a few times I have completely removed the battery and it kept on running I had 9 coils ....3 pickup and 6 drive
hope this helped....
peace
Peace
I have been studying the material found at
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/adamsmotor.htm
and it appears that the optimum Adams motor is a 3 coil setup as per attachment.
I found this post to be very interesting http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1736.0.html
Would "allcanadian" please come to our discussion to help us understand better the Adams Motor.
Could anyone with an understanding of pulse motors Please help me.
I am trying to understand them as I build one on you tube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=kubikop
Thanks.
Paul
Quote from: kubikop on August 30, 2007, 07:56:07 PM
Could anyone with an understanding of pulse motors Please help me.
I am trying to understand them as I build one on you tube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=kubikop
Thanks.
Paul
Well Paul, I've been trying to get some help too (see previous post). A pulse motor requires a power source like a DC battery to energize a coil and a number of permanent magnets as part of a rotor or as in my case (the Sotropa Motor), part of the pistons. There are many configurations but I find the Adams Motor to be the most interesting and most controversial. I sincerely wish you luck.
Peter
Thanks. have you any ideas on what I have acheived so far on you tube?
What is the difference between the Sotropa Motor and a north pole motor?
Paul
Oh...
Is it a noth pole motor at 180 to itself?
Sorry I am new to this.....
Then a coil to pick up at 90 degrees?
Paul
Quote from: kubikop on August 30, 2007, 08:52:07 PM
Thanks. have you any ideas on what I have acheived so far on you tube?
What is the difference between the Sotropa Motor and a north pole motor?
Paul
Have you looked at the "Sotropa Motor" on youtube?
What you have done is create a type of pulse motor that uses finger power to reverse polarity which repels the rotor magnets. Remove your finger and nothing happens.
Peter
What is it your trying to understand about pulse motors....how to make them run? Or how to use a magnetic gear?
I've spent the last seven years building pulse motors. I currently have one running on 2 volts at 5 milliamps ( 1/100th of a watt...or 10 milliwatt). This energy is being captured back into batteries or capacitors depending on the experiment. I am getting a 50 volt spike , using this setup, (measured on an oscilloscope) to recharge either 9 volt or 12 volt batteries. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on August 30, 2007, 11:06:51 PM
I've spent the last seven years building pulse motors. I currently have one running on 2 volts at 5 milliamps ( 1/100th of a watt...or 10 milliwatt). This energy is being captured back into batteries or capacitors depending on the experiment. I am getting a 50 volt spike , using this setup, (measured on an oscilloscope) to recharge either 9 volt or 12 volt batteries. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
Nastrand
Have you used attraction by the rotor magnets to the coil cores in any of your motors?
What have you used to switch the power to the coil and what have you used to switch the back emf to the capacitor?
Are you familiar with the Adams Motor?
Peter
The coil is switched with a transistor. the poles on the rotor are north south north south. Bemf is captured by connecting wires between the collector and the emitter of the transistor.
the magnets are neos 2 inch wide by 1 inch in depth. The coil to run this motor is bifilar without a iron core..so an air core. the rotor is 2 inches in diameter using crap bearings
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on August 31, 2007, 12:32:40 AM
the magnets are neos 2 inch wide by 1 inch in depth. The coil to run this motor is bifilar without a iron core..so an air core. the rotor is 2 inches in diameter using crap bearings
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on August 31, 2007, 12:29:12 AM
The coil is switched with a transistor. the poles on the rotor are north south north south. Bemf is captured by connecting wires between the collector and the emitter of the transistor.
Nastrand
Do you wind your own coils?
Have you ever used a solid core or attraction by the rotor magnets to the coil cores in any of your motors?
Are you using a Hall IC or Reed switch? Do the wires go directly from the transistor to a capacitor? Is there not lag time between the pulse to the coil and the captured bemf?
Are you familiar with the Adams Motor?
What do you mean by crap bearings?
Peter
Hello all,
I'm a long time lurker here at overunity. Until now I haven't had anything interesting to add to your discussions. I have a suggestion for anyone thinking of a replication of this device.
I am a tattooist by trade and the machines we use to tattoo with are basically electromagnetic oscillators. Tattoo machines are actually based on old doorbell technology if you can believe it. Anyway, to sum this ramble up, tattoo machines use very nicely wound iron core electromagnets which are available to purchase all over the net. They come in various core lengths, the most common being 1 and 1 quarter inch. They range from 8 wrap to 12 wrap and also come in different wire gauges. They come in pairs, are not terribly expensive, and are very strong. Just food for thought if any of you builders are looking for uniformly wrapped, small, electromagnetic coils. One last thing, the coil cores are drilled and tapped at one end which makes mounting them securely a breeze. If all of this is useless, just ignore it.
Regards,
Jason
[/quote]
Quote from: lasher23 on August 31, 2007, 03:24:09 AM
Hello all,
I'm a long time lurker here at overunity. Until now I haven't had anything interesting to add to your discussions. I have a suggestion for anyone thinking of a replication of this device.
I am a tattooist by trade and the machines we use to tattoo with are basically electromagnetic oscillators. Tattoo machines are actually based on old doorbell technology if you can believe it. Anyway, to sum this ramble up, tattoo machines use very nicely wound iron core electromagnets which are available to purchase all over the net. They come in various core lengths, the most common being 1 and 1 quarter inch. They range from 8 wrap to 12 wrap and also come in different wire gauges. They come in pairs, are not terribly expensive, and are very strong. Just food for thought if any of you builders are looking for uniformly wrapped, small, electromagnetic coils. One last thing, the coil cores are drilled and tapped at one end which makes mounting them securely a breeze. If all of this is useless, just ignore it.
Regards,
Jason
Hey Jason
I just did a search of "tattoo machine" at Answers.com and actually learned something!!
Thanks,
Peter
Adam,
I have found this pulse motor to be the most interesting one to build and I'm in the process of doing just that. I REALLY like the way those coils are being wound and for now just one question. What is the optimal ckt for a three drive coil system? Will have more questions later but I'm still doing the mechanics on a 20" disk of aluminum ( 1/4" thick) two disks and whether to go horizontal with a magnet to float the load or Vertical and deal with the bearings losses. But it's the ckt that's most important right now. Just want to be sure this part is RIGHT the first time.
Thank you for being here,
Carl
@tropes,
Yes I do wind my own coils, I have never used a manufactured coil. I have used attraction and repulsion for my setups. I find that placing the magnets close together, you are able to use both of these properties. I only use one transistor, no reed switches or hall ic's. The cap or battery is connected directly to the transistor's collector and emitter legs ( one diode is needed inline on the emitter side). I am familiar with the adams motor, although I have never used his exact setup. And by crap bearing, I mean shitty. ;D My bearings are flange bearings, I removed all the grease with acetone and frequently run acetone thru the bearing to keep it free of buildup and debris.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on August 31, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
@tropes,
I have used attraction and repulsion for my setups. I find that placing the magnets close together, you are able to use both of these properties. I only use one transistor, no reed switches or hall ic's. The cap or battery is connected directly to the transistor's collector and emitter legs ( one diode is needed inline on the emitter side). I am familiar with the adams motor, although I have never used his exact setup. And by crap bearing, I mean shitty. ;D My bearings are flange bearings, I removed all the grease with acetone and frequently run acetone thru the bearing to keep it free of buildup and debris.
Jason
Hi Jason
I would like to see a circuit diagram to understand how power is directed to the coil without a switch (no commutator). Do you use shitty bearings because of cost?
Peter
I use the flange bearings because they are durable. Here is a quick pic of the general setup.
Jason
Hi Jason
I have added color to the circuit from battery to driving coil.
Which is positive and which is negative? Where is the cap. and diode?
Peter
I will answer this tomorrow...sorry i have to go to bed now. I will redraw the schematic to show you where to recapture the energy.
Jason
Jason
I have built several pulse motors in the past ( http://www.theowlnest.com/kickbypage.html ) but I have never captured the bemf. I hope to learn from your experience.
Peter
I changed the circuit a little bit (i had a wire going to the wrong side or the transistor). But the picture below should help to answer your question I hope.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 01, 2007, 03:22:29 PM
I changed the circuit a little bit (i had a wire going to the wrong side or the transistor). But the picture below should help to answer your question I hope.
Jason
Thanks Jason
I will study it carefully. BTW, are the rotor magnets S or N pole outward or does it matter? What are the specs of the Capacitor and battery? What is the PN of the transistor?
This diagram is one I got from Konehead.
Peter,
My magnets are alternating north south, I'm only using 4 magnets on my current setup. My battery and cap specs change all the time because I'm always switching them around. The caps are anything 2 micro farad to 1 farad, ranging in voltage from 25 to 400 volts. The transistor is a tip3055 (part number 276-2020 from radio shack). But I've found that most npn transistors will work, although each one has its own characteristics.
you can see my motor at http://ymygody.googlepages.com/
Jason
Jason
Thanks for the info. and photos. I will consider using a pickup coil next to the flywheel on my motor. Does the polarity of the magnet determine the direction of the current?
Nice to see a workbench as tidy as mine!
Peter
Peter,
I guess I'm not fully understanding the question. The polarity of the pickup coil, driving coil, or back emf?
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 01, 2007, 09:09:39 PM
Peter,
I guess I'm not fully understanding the question. The polarity of the pickup coil, driving coil, or back emf?
Jason
The polarity of the driving coil must change to match the polarity of the rotor magnets if the magnets are N-S-N-S.
Peter,
The coil only fires twice per revolution. The diode on the pickup coil only lets current flow one way through the transistor, which allows the current to flow through the driving coil. Either attraction or repulsion will work, however I find repulsion to work better. While the coil is pushing the north magnet away, its is attracting the south magnet. I find that a bifilar coil (single coil wrapped with two wires) works well with this design. Also, since I don't use ferromagnetic cores, I don't have to fasten my coils if I'm using small amounts of wattage (like less the 1/2 watt). This allows me to move the coil around without fear of hitting the magnets.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 01, 2007, 10:39:09 PM
Peter,
The coil only fires twice per revolution. The diode on the pickup coil only lets current flow one way through the transistor, which allows the current to flow through the driving coil. Either attraction or repulsion will work, however I find repulsion to work better. While the coil is pushing the north magnet away, its is attracting the south magnet. I find that a bifilar coil (single coil wrapped with two wires) works well with this design. Also, since I don't use ferromagnetic cores, I don't have to fasten my coils if I'm using small amounts of wattage (like less the 1/2 watt). This allows me to move the coil around without fear of hitting the magnets.
Okay Jason. That clears things up. The driving coil fires twice /revolution with four magnets on the rotor. The pick-up coil is positioned to determine when this firing takes place.
Yes, I did wind a bifilar coil for my first pulse motor. Since then, Ian Coke-Richards http://www.mintakafulcrum.net/ has been winding them for me.
Peter
Peter,
The one thing I didn't show in the picture was the resistors on the pickup coil. In my setup I'm using a 1.5k ohm in series with a 100 watt light dimmer. This way I can adjust the current thats available to the driving coil. The less resistance, the more back emf. Because there is a stronger field created in the coil that is allowed to collapse after the magnet passes. I hope this helps, good luck.
Jason
I just noticed that the way I drew the circuit, I created a direct short through the driving coil and the battery. Sorry. Anyways I fixed the drawing and posted it below.
Jason
Hi guys,
I have recently begun work on a pulse motor of my own and I am using 4 bifilar coils to pulse a wheel with 5 magnets. I am triggering a single wind on each coil with a microswitch and seconday windings are fed back through 4 bridges hooked up in series. Picture here is before last coil was added. http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3185.0/topicseen.html
I can get fluctuating voltages at full speed from 15-19 volts coming through the bridges, can I use these spikes to fill a capacitor and dump it back onto a battery?
@Ren,
The short answer is yes you can dump this voltage into a cap. Let me ask a few questions first.
Is the voltage you are reading ac or dc?
Are you using a digital meter or an analog meter?
And what voltage are you using to run your motor?
Most likely what is happening from your explanation is a transformer effect.
Jason
Feedback trough second coils is sopradic jumping between 15 and 19 volts on digital multi meter. All coils are fed through a bridge rectifier and all bridges are connected in series, so I am assuming dc. Read on 20v setting on a cheap multimeter.
voltage to first wind (voltage that drives the motor) is from 12 volt wall outlet. Possible that this is spiking at all? It reads a steady 13.3 volts when switch is held closed.
I need to get some better equipment. Its electricity alright, I tasted some :D
Hi Guys
I thought I should show my first motor. I was lucky to find an old Hobart weigh scale that had a shaft to which I could attach a CD and a timing wheel. I glued three magnets to each and used a Hall sensor and transistor to switch power on and off. I used a lego power pack (3 Ccells 4.5 volts) for power.
A good Benini site: http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm
A good Adams site: http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/adamsmotor.htm
Peter
Quote from: tropes on September 03, 2007, 01:01:42 PM
Hi Guys
I thought I should show my first motor. I was lucky to find an old Hobart weigh scale that had a shaft to which I could attach a CD and a timing wheel. I glued three magnets to each and used a Hall sensor and transistor to switch power on and off. I used a lego power pack (3 Ccells 4.5 volts) for power.
A good Benini site: http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm
A good Adams site: http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/adamsmotor.htm
Peter
Oh Yes the Picture
thats ghetto Tropes 8) I like. How does it perform on such a small voltage?
Ren
You can check out some of my early work including videos (2003- 2005)here: http://www.theowlnest.com/kickbypage.html
If you follow the links you'll see a progression to the Sotropa Motor.I am now building a four piston motor but I also am awaiting cancer surgery this month so I will be out of commission for a while. I know the mechanics of motors and engines but I lack the electronic skills.
Peter
Peter,
Looks good. I was wondering the what you guess the rpm is and what amount of current is it taking at 4.5 volt?
keep up the good work.
Jason
Ren
Your microswitch can be replace with a transistor(see picture in reply #41). And you can use one of your secondary windings to as a trigger coil (pickup coil in picture), to trigger the transistor to pulse all four driving coils. The secondary coils on the rest of the coils can be uses as straight generator coil to recover extra voltage. If you follow the diagram I posted to capture back emf, you should be looking at about 200 to 300 volt spikes. Good luck.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 03, 2007, 06:19:06 PM
Peter,
Looks good. I was wondering the what you guess the rpm is and what amount of current is it taking at 4.5 volt?
keep up the good work.
Jason
I have long since disassembled that motor but you can view the video and guess at the RPM. It was just a start and a good learning experience but very inefficient.
Peter
thanks Jase, that would be the next step for me I think. Looking at Rick F's bedini circuit I notice the secondary winding has a 1k variable resistor which I assume allows you to tune the device? I still need a little help with the electronics side of things. I will have an attempt at the transistor wiring soon. I also got some new equipment and gauges today, will hook them up and let you know the findings.
Thanks Peter, I will check out your page. And good luck with your surgery, keep your spirits high. My wife is a RN (10 years) who works in a chemotherapy ward, and is studying alot of information in regards to cancer and treatment, if you have any questions or concerns she would be happy to share her wealth of knowledge. All the best.
s
Ren
The one thing that I have found, is that the slower you can run "motor" the more back emf you will capture. However, this comes at a price, because the motor will consume more current. You have to find the resonant frequency your motor is most efficient at. If you have questions about this, I'm more than happy to help you. I live in Oregon, if you are anywhere close it is much easier in person. Good luck.
Jason
thanks jase, but im in Australia, it doesnt get too much further away than that! Thank for the offer though ;D
To slow my motor down I have used the rotor to drive a small 12 volt hobby motor (read, very small). With four coils it still has enough torque to continue at a decent speed and depending on how I gear the hobby motor it will put out 0.5 - 9 volts. This could be combined with the voltage I am receiving through the secondary windings. I dont know how long this hobby motor will last though. Could possibly burn out.
I get more through my secondary windings the faster it goes however, so when the hobby motor slows down the rotor I lose a little bit of juice on that end.
Can anyone tell me part numbers for the hall sensor? And does the transistor need the 1k pot as seen here in pics http://rpmgt.org/SSG.html for dialing in?
Gosh, someone else is actually in oregon? I live in PDX myself. :D Greets at ya.
thaelin
Quote from: Ren on September 04, 2007, 12:49:45 AM
Can anyone tell me part numbers for the hall sensor? And does the transistor need the 1k pot as seen here in pics http://rpmgt.org/SSG.html for dialing in?
Ren
The unipolar Hall sensor is made by Allegro Microsystems, part#: A3121EUA.
The bipolar Hall sensors I bought as a bundle of 40 from Electronic Goldmine in Arizona or online at
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/
Unipolar are sensitive to South Pole only; bipolar swith on with South and off with North Pole.
Peter
hmmm. Thanks Peter. I had a look at the stats on the hall I brought and it was only rated for 5v. Would this one do the trick?
http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searchBrowseAction.do?D=hall&Nr=AND%28avl%3aau%2csearchDiscon_au%3aN%29&Ntk=I18NAll&Nty=1&Ntt=hall&Dx=mode%20matchpartial&Ntx=mode%20matchpartial&N=0&name=SiteStandard&forwardingPage=line&R=1811441&callingPage=/jsp/search/search.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0524714585.1188943532@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladdllikegikcefeceeldgkidhgm.0&cacheID=aunetscape
I will place order with Allegro if it isnt as I cant find any suppliers of that particular sensor here in Australia.
Quote from: Ren on September 04, 2007, 06:20:05 PM
hmmm. Thanks Peter. I had a look at the stats on the hall I brought and it was only rated for 5v. Would this one do the trick?
To understand unipolar, latching and bipolar Hall switches read:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/an/an27705.pdf
I think what you want is a non- latching unipolar switch rated for up to 24v.
Peter
Thanks Peter! Two thumbs up! Your simple post and link taught me more than 3 supposed electronics experts could (well you should know your stuff if you work in an electronic component store). Your right, I am after a unipolar switch which is non latching, i.e switches on in the presence of a magnetic field and switches off in its absense.
Thanks mate! I'll order some from RS here in Aus and see how they go.
Sorry just realized above link I provided was incorrect. product I was reffering to was number 181-1441 seen at http://www.rsaustralia.com. There are uni, bi and latched types
hello again. Converted video of my setup and now hosted on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6QFIhprw1E
Found battery on side of road and used it for power. Starts machine up heaps faster, Im assuming because there are alot more amps. Wall outlet is max 1 amp. Top speeds are similar and output is the same, so Ideally if i wanted to run this off the battery I should reduce the amount of amps its taking.
Ren
Nice video. If you want to know how many watts you are using, the setup your amp meter inline with the micro switch. I have posted a pic below to show you how. Make sure you are using the 10 amp setting and you change the red cord on your amp meter from mA to 10 amp. Then multiply your voltage of your battery times the amperage. Your voltage should be read before starting the motor. Also it looks like you are reading pure voltage off of your generator coils, hook up a load (such as a resistor or a little hobby motor and read the amperage inline as above mentioned). A helpful site to solve your questions about input vs output is http://www.opamplabs.com/eirp.htm good luck.
Jason
Oops, forgot the pic
Hey guys, check out Konehead's pulse motor on youtube.
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-7747771837722247647&q=doug+konzen&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
I uploaded his circuit a few pages back.
Peter
thanks jase, will go do that now.
I am thinking that the coils are producing the transformer effect and that is where the voltage is coming from, I dont know if that is classified as back emf. Skimming the surface of some of the info on the transformer effect I noticed that transformers are usually very efficient, like up to 99%.Interesting.
Something funny just happened too. I hooked up a small hobby motor to the output with the multimeter still connected to the points. The multimeter jumped from 18-20 volts to the number 1 (which means voltage was too high to read). No prob you say switch from 20v setting to 200v setting. Well I did and that didnt work either, I ended up using the hv setting, which was saying there was over 1000v spikes. This returned back to its normal level as soon as the motor was disconnected. The draw slowed the motor down a little but it still ran and the hobbie motor was spining too. Can anyone explain? The only thing I can think is that the hobby motor is creating interference or something or that my multimeter was wrong? Wierd, I'll video it sometime, interested to hear anyones thoughts.
However, with K's motor, I personally need some readings. Input vs output would be nice ( a very simple thing to do). In the case of bedini motors gauges don't work because of radiant energy capture. I'm not against meters not working, as long as a test load can prove more energy in then out.
Jason
The hobby motor uses a commutator, this will create small sparks. You won't always see them. Any spark is 1000 volt plus, plasma is created at the sparking junction and feeds back into digital meters. Its best to use analog meter if at all possible. However, the spark that is created can capture "free" electrons, for use in the circuit. Capturing those electrons is the key to the equation. Most electronic devices I use (diodes, transistors, and so on) hate that. But I continue to move on to find a suitable material that is able to convert this into usable electricity.
For instance, my motor is running at 30 rpm at 4 volt and .002 amps. It is putting out a continuous 120+ volt into a cap. The resistance in the circuit is about 2000 ohms or 2kohms.
Jason
interesting. Its all in the spark eh?
I dont know if I did it right. When connected to either terminal of the microswitch it just slows the motor down, that cant be right I thought. I Tried again wiring it inline and it reads 0.6 to 0.7. Thats with the meter set to 10 amp and appropriate plugs. Amps on the hobby motor while connected were jumping from nothing to 0.45
as long as it is inline with the wires, that should be your reading. never connect across the switch or the motor, this creates a short circuit. Also, make sure that your ampmeter is set to 10 amps. Im just trying to save your meter here. I've blown up to many to count reading it wrong.
jason
just figured it out mate. I was wrong correct measurements are above. I removed one of the microswitches plugs and hooked it to the multimeter and hooked the other alligator clip back to the switch. Makes sense, your measuring the current that runs THROUGH the wires yes? Oh and thats with the wall adaptor plug. I imagine it is alot higher with the battery connected.
exactly
Yah, with the transformers that plug into the wall you can suck too much current thru them which causes them to short out in the windings. if it is rated a 1 amp and you pull 2 amp for too long, goodbye transformer.
Jason
Have a good night guys....Im out....gotta take the little ones to school in the morning.
Jason
Thanks Jase, ave a good un.
I'll make a little vid tomorrow to compare amps at switch and output.
Hey Ren,
How did the testing go with motor....just wondering.
Jason
hey mate,
Testing went good. I have now placed another 5 sets of magnets around the wheel for a total of ten. The output from the secondaries went from 20 v to 30v. I was a bit skeptical of this reading so I hooked it up to an analogue gauge. It read 5 volts with 5 magnets and now reads 10 volts with 10 magnets. I dont know which one is correct, but I have to go with the 10 volt reading on the analogue, so as not to get ahead of myself.
Ordered some halls today and transistor, looking forward to seeing how they perform.
Amps went up on the input side however to around 1.6 amps. Im guessing since I have doubled duty cycle per revolution that its using more current. Is there a simple circuit I can buy/make that will allow me to make adjustments to voltage and amp draw from the battery?
Output is enough to turn hobby motors, and will light up a 12 v 5 watt bulb, not to full brightness though.
I have got heaps more ideas for it yet so stay tuned.
Ren,
To reduce the current your motor is using, you will need to place a resistor inline with one of your coils. I suggest doing it right after the micro switch. A standard light dimming switch is probably the easiest and most robust for the price, a cheap one will do. Using the dimmer, you can vary the current going through your coils.
Jason
I brought a 1k varible resistor yesterday, would that do? I am going to go and make a vid now. Post it shortly.
Ren,
If you have resistors available to you, putting on inline with the dimmer switch is a plus. You just need to figure out how much current you want running to the motor and match that with a resistor of correct rating. This will be trial and error. Here is a website to figure out what your resistor is rated at. Just change the color bands on the resistor on the web site to match the one you are using.
http://www.samengstrom.com/nxl/3660/4_band_resistor_color_code_page.en.html
Jason
Yeah the 1 k should be fine, just start at full resistance and work backward. Also make sure the resistor is rated above the power you are using. 12 * 1.6 = 19.2 watts, as long as it is 20 to 25 watts it should be fine.
Jason
ah ok, thats why it didnt work. rated at .5w lol. So when I get a proper one I should install similar to the way you showed me to install amp meter reading, i.e current flows through? Just after the switch huh.
heres a couple more vids of tests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Ef9SRXp30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ey12pkaEPQ
yea... always inline with the current. I've burnt alot of components trying figure out how to use them. :P Just trying to save you the trouble of that.
Jason
I like the videos....Good work!
Once your figure out the transistor circuit you will be amazed at the difference. make sure to be ready for 1000's of rpms. Just be careful. Good luck
Jason
I am hanging out for this circuit. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon. The microswitch is overheating and losing speed after about 10 min running.
Here is one of mine. WARNING...not pretty ;D
"http://www.youtube.com/v/jkGg7mkMKLs"
Jason
Well that worked well....hmmmm
nice. Looks like you have got some good equipment there. Have you considered adding more coils to that setup? Oh and by the way any idea how many turns on your coil? Or weight of wire?
I believe the coil is either 1/4 or 1/2 pound of 24 gauge and 26 gauge wound in bifilar. Sorry, I wound these coils years ago....but i would guess 1/2 pound each. The coil is 2 inch by 1 inch approximately.
Jason
My next coils to test are 24 on 24 gauge bifilar wound. We will see how that works.
Jason
cool. Let me know how the new coil goes. :)
Adding more coils increases the speed. The motor is running too fast for my liking in the video. I can increase the coil numbers( more coils) for more capture of back emf by pulsing them at different times. I just want to maximize the single coil capture before I do that. This is trial and error for me at this point. How much resistance do i need for "motor excitation". And how to keep the motor running slow enough to maximize the coils magnetic fields for capturing the collapsing magnetic field.
Jason
Im out for the night. Too many fosters i suppose, :P . Have a good un Ren.
Jason
lol they have fosters over there??? What about VB or Tooheys? Please tell me there is Bundaberg Rum!!! Take it easy Jase, I'll catch up with ya son.
Well I just uploaded a second vid to youtube. It shows the motor running on 2 volts at 5 milliamp, charging a cap to 40+ volts. Just playing with the motor now to show different variables. Having a variable power source is well worth the money, I can control the voltage and amperage this way.
http://www.youtube.com/v/49gjKX4F9hc
Jason
Or try this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49gjKX4F9hc&mode=user&search=
Jason
hi Nas , could you do a pic and stuff..and how its wired up ?.
thank you.
Hi borg,
reply #41 is the setup, however the pickup coil and the driving coil are wound as one coil ( two wires). I have not shown the resistance (on the drawing) on the pickup coil which is 2.6 k ohms. hope this helps. And remember that this is only possible because of the massive magnets. The magnets you see will tear your fingers off....no kidding. If you plan to work with magnets this size, please wear welding glove at the very least.
Jason
amazing. I Love it Jase. Your right, those magnets are massive. Must have been an effort to align and fix them to the rotor.
All I can say is wear gloves....BIG THICK GLOVES.... :D
Jason
So i am thinking I might try this setup as my switch just cant handle long periods of use. You say you had a 1.5k resistor with a light dimmer also on the circuit. This is positioned before the diode on the drive coil circuit? What model transistor did you use and what diode, or should I just go get a bunch and start testing?
Also mate, if I was to hook this up I would be best to build a circuit for every coil I have rather than run four coils through the one transistor yeah?
Use the 1.5 and the light dimmer on on the pickup coil to "allow" the transistor to let the current from your battery to flow to your driving coils. This will be between your base and emitter of the transistor. Basically, the pickup or trigger coil ( one in the same) will allow the current to flow to your driving coils. Once enough voltage is between the base and the emitter then current is allowed to run to your driving coils to turn the motor. Hope this helps.....damn beer, don't know why I drink it. :P
Jason
I use a tip3055 transistor, the diodes shouldn't matter to much at this point.
Jason
To answer the last question about a circuit per coil, I actually find it better to use two separate coils for a motor you want to run at high speed. But since speed isn't the issue, bifilar coils works well. This is all just a learning process to help you understand how energy flows. Once that is understood, then the real fun begins, along with the headaches. ;)
Jason
This is last vid tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcpoI4mlx6w&eurl=
Jason
nice. top setup. Love the positioning of gauges.
So let me see if i have this right. There is power (small trickle) flowing constantly through the second winding?
Or does the magnet trigger resistance or such in the second winding and when this reaches a certain level the transistor switches on?
Im interested in how you time it, especially since there is a north and south pole on your rotor yet yo tell it to only fire on the north.
Does the magnet passing by create the voltage which sets off the transistor when it reaches a certain point?
That may not make much sense, I'll re-word it if you like.
Ren,
I have a diode on the trigger coil, so when the north face of the magnet passes by the coil it creates enough voltage to open the transistor. The diode only allows one direction of flow, so when the south magnet passes nothing happens. When the transistor opens, current is allowed to flow through the driving coil. You asked if there is a constant trickle, the answer is no. The moving magnets create the voltage necessary to open the transistor. So the only current you see on the gauges is what is going to the driving coil. Hope that helps.
Jason
Jason
While you're lurking with a Foster in hand, give this some thought: I wrapped a coil around each piston in my Sotropa Motor. When I complete my 4 piston motor (just about finished the crankshaft) I would like to add this free 3 volts in series to the BEMF. You think?
I uploaded the video to the bottom of this page
http://www.theowlnest.com/opm.html
Peter
Tropes,
Are you looking to nullify the BEMF using this captured voltage? By capturing this voltage and storing it you will cause BEMF in your generator coils.
Maybe I'm not seeing the question correctly. Please tell me a little more. The 3 volts can be captured into a cap and dumped into what you see fit. You may want to check this video out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_rvJQb2SDY this is from tao in another thread.
Jason
to all in this thread,
please follow this thread
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3247.0/topicseen.html
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 08, 2007, 10:09:18 PM
Tropes,
Are you looking to nullify the BEMF using this captured voltage? By capturing this voltage and storing it you will cause BEMF in your generator coils.
Maybe I'm not seeing the question correctly. Please tell me a little more. The 3 volts can be captured into a cap and dumped into what you see fit. You may want to check this video out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_rvJQb2SDY this is from tao in another thread.
Jason
"Back EMF" or "Collapsed Spikes"; at this point it's just semantics to me. What I hope to do is add this captured voltage to whatever other voltage( "Back EMF" or "Collapsed Spikes") I am able to direct to a capacitor. I am asking if you think this 3 volts is in addition to any other voltage I can capture from the main coil between the pistons. Would I need to dump this 3 volts separately into a cap or could I connect it to the other captured voltage and dump the combined voltage?
Peter
Tropes
If the 3 volts is above what you are capturing it can be added ( ie. your capturing less then 3 volt with your other coils). If you are capturing more voltage from the other coils then there wont be enough "pressure" for the 3 volts to add to it. If however you capture the 3 volt into a cap or a number of caps that each store 3 volt, then you can align them in a series circuit for discharge into a battery. But you must store the initial 3 volt in a Parallel circuit first, the switch it to series for discharge.
Jason
Back EMF is the resistance that is trying to stop the current from flowing during the driving coils pulse to push the motor. Collapsing field happens after the driving coil turns off, allowing the maintained field to collapse. They are two different aspects of the energy flow in a coil. I have inadvertently used the wrong vernacular in the past, sorry :). Hope this helps.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 08, 2007, 11:31:37 PM
If the 3 volts is above what you are capturing it can be added ( ie. your capturing less then 3 volt with your other coils). If you are capturing more voltage from the other coils then there wont be enough "pressure" for the 3 volts to add to it. If however you capture the 3 volt into a cap or a number of caps that each store 3 volt, then you can align them in a series circuit for discharge into a battery. But you must store the initial 3 volt in a Parallel circuit first, the switch it to series for discharge.
Jason
Okay Jason, sounds like unless the captured voltages are all equal they must each be stored in separate caps and then switched to series (added together) to discharge. Right?
Peter
Peter,
Yes, your voltage must be higher then what you are plugging into to get a net gain.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 08, 2007, 11:37:49 PM
Back EMF is the resistance that is trying to stop the current from flowing during the driving coils pulse to push the motor. Collapsing field happens after the driving coil turns off, allowing the maintained field to collapse. They are two different aspects of the energy flow in a coil. I have inadvertently used the wrong vernacular in the past, sorry :). Hope this helps.
Jason
I think most refer to any voltage, other than that used to create an electromagnet, as BEMF.
What about the induced current in a coil when two magnets are attracted to each other and to the core as in the attached image? Is that another aspect of energy flow?
Peter
I think by putting your alignment of magnets and coils into a circle you will gain more torque and a faster speed.
This way you don't fight the back and forth movement.
Jason
You must remember that speed has very little to do with generation of power as we are looking for. Slower speeds allow more buildup of energy in the coils. If you are looking for a strong motor, then by all means make it produce as many rpms for the least amount of wattage.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 09, 2007, 12:30:22 AM
You must remember that speed has very little to do with generation of power as we are looking for. Slower speeds allow more buildup of energy in the coils. If you are look for a strong motor, then by all means make it produce as many rpms for the least amount of wattage.
Jason
Jason
My goal is to build an efficient, powerful electric motor that can easily be substituted for an internal combustion engine in any vehicle using capacitors rather than a fuel tank. I would guess that 99% of all IC engines are reciprocating not rotary.
What about the induced current in a coil when two magnets are attracted to each other and to the core as in the attached image? Is that another aspect of energy flow?
Peter
Jason
Good night from Saskatchewan. May the sky over Eugene be always bright.
Peter
whooops wrong video.. ;D
Here is the latest video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4BWJagMV6Q
Jason
well time to Duty the wife....seee you guys tommarow. ::)
Jason
hi jason,
..what i think im seeing here is your making about 200 watts or volts ?( im not sure i dont know how power works what so ever)....are you able to hook up a light bulb ?...or a fan ?...or plugin a desktop pc ?...
...and i can only guess , your useing maybe a 12volt car battery to run this ?...
..(yet more guessing questions) ...in your coil is there a magnet that attracts the other 4 magents on the rotor ?. and each time a magnet is attracted you send a pulse to the coil and that then reverses the pull just for a sec to make a push to bring the next magent around on the rotor ? and you pulse the coil again and so on ?...and there is another coil wound around with the pulse coil to capture the back spike( i think../shrug)..and your storing this back effect or what ever it is ?.
sorry for sounding like a morron but i am when it comes to this stuff..but im asking because i want to get this right in my head.
Thank you.
@ Nastrand:
Well I have to give you a big thanks. You just gave me a key to something I have been trying to figure out. Now to try it. chow
thaelin
hey Borg,
Quote from: b0rg13 on September 09, 2007, 01:50:01 AM
hi jason,
..what i think im seeing here is your making about 200 watts or volts ?( im not sure i dont know how power works what so ever)....are you able to hook up a light bulb ?...or a fan ?...or plugin a desktop pc ?...
What you are seeing is voltage. Volts * Amps = watts per hour. This video is just to demonstrate the collapsing magnetic field in the coil after the driving pulse to that coil. The capacitor can be discharged into a battery to charge it.
...and i can only guess , your useing maybe a 12volt car battery to run this ?...
I am using a variable power supply. I can set it from 0 - 30 volts, and 0 - 3 amps. This is very helpful when you want to try different voltages and amperage with these motors.
..(yet more guessing questions) ...in your coil is there a magnet that attracts the other 4 magents on the rotor ?
The coil has an air core. This means that i does not use iron or magnets in its center. The coil is bifilar, meaning I used two wires while winding it. Think of it like wrapping a lamp cord around a broom handle.
. and each time a magnet is attracted you send a pulse to the coil and that then reverses the pull just for a sec to make a push to bring the next magent around on the rotor ?
See previous statement.
and you pulse the coil again and so on ?
The coil pulses twice per revolution. The magnets are north south north south. The coil only fires when the north face of the magnet passes by the coil. When the magnet passes by the coil, it creates enough voltage thru the second winding to turn the transistor on and allow power to flow to the driving coil.
...and there is another coil wound around with the pulse coil to capture the back spike( i think../shrug)..and your storing this back effect or what ever it is ?.
No, the other coil is used to fire the transistor. The spike happens in the driving coil and thats where it is captured. Please see reply # 41 @ http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2552.30.html
sorry for sounding like a morron but i am when it comes to this stuff..but im asking because i want to get this right in my head.
Thank you.
No one is a moron, we all have to start somewhere. I'm happy to help if I can.
Jason
Borgie, dont worry this forum is created for morons like you and me to learn! ;D :D. I'm just thankful that indivduals like Jason are willing to teach as they learn in an open source method. Not 3 pages ago Jason taught me how to use my multimeter :D lol.
Jase, I pulled apart my machine, cause I think your right in perfecting one coil before moving onto two, or ten for that matter.
I tried to hook up a transistor with a diode like your diagram, except my pick up coil and power coil wound on one. It made some crazy bleep/screeh noise and stayed on till I disconnected power. Transistor built up a fair amount of heat. I didnt have a variable resistor installed, just the diode.
Do you think my wheel could be creating interference? It is a metal rim, far from ideal I hear, but it was all I had, and made positioning the magnets easy. Is there enough time for the transistor to switch off? Maybe time to fabricate another.
Most likely I have inferior parts, Im pretty sure the wiring was correct. I have a transistor bedini ssg plans coming this week with some hall sensors, but id like to learn how to fire it without the hall as well.
s
Ren,
Its sounds like the negative and positive were backward. One thing I have found to help me know which way to hook it up right is by using an ammeter while hooking it up. If current is flowing without the wheel move it is probable because the negative and positive are switched.
Jsaon
Ren,
One other thing occured to me. Make sure that your trigger coil has a 1 k ohm resistor inline with it. You can change this value so that your motor will run faster or slower. Experiment with it, say 500 ohm to 1.5 k ohm.
Jason
switched negative and positive and no crazy sound, just constantly on. Doesnt matter if theres a magnet there or not. Think my transistor is fried.
You may have fried it. So goes the experimentation process. Hate to think of all of them I've fried. Thats why I buy in bulk :P.
Jason
Ren,
Would it be helpful if I make a video showing the beginning to end process of putting together the motor you are working with using one transistor and some diodes. I would be happy to.
Jason
Ren,
I can run my coil with no moving magnets, and I get a high pitched sound from the coil resonating. This only happens if my trigger coil does have enough resistance, which can be solved with a resistor inline with my trigger coil.
Jason
well, i broke my coil. broke off the trigger coil wire. :-\, time to rewind another coil. this might take awhile.
Jason
that sucks. I must have stolen your luck cause my halls just arrived. Used with transistor and fired up first time. Awesome. Can I hookup to collector and emmiter with diodes like your diagram to capture back emf? Hookup is like so.
I'm not sure, I have never used hall sensors. Good luck? ???
Jason
you should check em out sometime. There are ones that are activated by south only,north only or both (you probably know this already). This would fit your application quite well I'd imagine. They're cheap too. I'll do some tinkering and see what I come up with.
okay i would be in your debt. good to see other builders. :)
Jason
Well i finished my new coil and it is working well. there will be a vid up tommaroww
Jason
hi Jason , would u mind drawing a pic like ren did on the last page?...doesnt need to be flash , just good arrows and descriptions would help me a lot right down to the N and S on the 4 magents, this would help me understand a lot better,im really interested in this from the simplicty i see from your engine going so slow..so if you draw it with crayons and it looks like a 5year old did it ..thats just what i need :)
thank you for your time.
(also, am i correct in asuming that your last vid showing almost 200volts?.....is that able to repower the motor and a light bulb ?...im not sure how your storing it up, but is it possable to store more ?,say up to 500volts?..or maybe even 900?.)
oh and ,where might i find magents like your useing ?
( once i can repower the cloak on my ship i can go home ;) )
Borg,
Here is the following picture. To answer whether or not this can light a light bulb, the short answer is no. There is not enough wattage in the capicitor to light one.
Jason
This drawing is a little different from my setup. My coil is wound with two wires, so the driving coil and the pickup coil ( trigger coil) is one coil.
Jason
Also where it say back EMF capture, this is really collapsing magnetic field capture. Back EMF happens with the driving coils pulse. Collapsing magnetic field happens after the driving pulse stops. Sorry for my screw up. ???
Jason
Also to clear up any misconception, this motor does not run at overunity. This thread is merely to show how to setup a pulse motor and give ideas to the builders.
Jason
Well here is the latest video with the new coil (damn accidents). :P
I had to change some settings with the coil to find its "Sweet spot". I gotta start making these videos sober.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIOdl7H6qzA
Jason
Borg, Tropes, Ren,
This is where I buy my magnets from
http://www.magnet4less.com/
I have to give a WARNING here. The magnets that I use will tear your fingers off. NO JOKE. If you purchase the large magnets, please have your rotor built and ready to assemble. These magnets are not toys, and playing with them is not advisable. I'm just trying to save your fingers by saying this. I have damaged fingers from these magnets, so I am speaking from experience. Never let these magnet come together in a north to south way, you won't get them apart. Always wear gloves ( thick as possible) when handling these magnets. Also do not let anyone with a pacemaker within 5 feet of them. OK, enough with the warnings, Have fun and be safe.
Jason
My new coil is wound with two wires that are 24 gauge and is around 2 1/2 inch in diameter and 1 inch thick.
Jason
Thaelin,
If you are interested in talking about these motor personally, then please contact me. We only live about 2 hour from each other and I would love to learn about your experiences with these motors.
Jason
Borg,
Did that picture help, or do you need more directions. I'm happy to help you if you need more.
Jason
hi J,
thanks for the drawing..i went to the magnet site, but they want to charge me $96 just to send 4 magnets to New Zealand.../sigh :(... i just cant afford that....but i did think the $16 for the 4 magnets was a great price!...thanks for the info and helping me out tho :) .
Borg,
check out these guys, i have never bought from them, but you may be able to get a better price.
Jason
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROUND-1-5-x1-5-neodymium-magnet-magnets_W0QQitemZ250162585390QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1267QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
sorry about not posting the link. :P
Jason
wow they sure are big ass scarey looking magnets ,thanks again J , but im just going to have to save up for a couple months :) . im sure it will be worth it tho... i could probly spare $100 nz dollars right now, but once the exchange rate kicks in id be lucky to get $70 usa, that wont even cover the shipping let alone the magnets, im not giveing up tho, i just have to twiddle my fingers for a while till i save up an extra couple hundred.. i appreciate your help and input,( and you to Ren ).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250163275842
these are the magnets you should start with. They will give results similar to mine. Always remember that surface area of the magnet is more important then the depth of the magnet. I wish I would have known this earlier, it would have saved me thousands of dollars. Oh well, live and learn.
Jason
check out these for surface area..you just have to be vary careful with them, they are very brittle.
http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=153
Jason
by the looks of it magnet4less has the best prices , i just have to save up the huge shipping cost , with the ebay magnets ther expensive as the shipping...plus i cant seem to find out how much the shipping will be on top of that as they only seem to mention shipping to usa, and i live on the other side of the planet in New Zealand! (most ppl prolly never even heard of the place Lol ). :D
I would be happy to send you 4 of my magnets for the price of shipping plus magnet cost. I will have to see what shipping cost is to me.
Jason
i would really appreciate that, the next BIG step for me after that would be a coil..would u have a spare one possably that i could compenste you for ?.. to be honest i would have noidea what so ever how to make one up untill i actually see one up close..and probly take it appart...feel free to PM me so we dont fill up the forum with details banter...would the magnets be thick ones like in your videos ?...thin ones id be worried i might break them., once again i apprecite your help here jason.
Well, I see the cost is too much for shipping. Sorry about that.
Jason
no problem , thanks for checking it out any way!. :)
I could wind your coils and sell you the magnets at no profit. I dont mind helping other builders. But the price for me to ship there is large, and i dont want to charge you any more then 100$. let me look at some other options. And yes the magnets will be the same as seen in the videos.
Jason
there is a ups store by my house. Im going to go talk to them and see the shipping costs, I cant believe that it is the same as online. If it is low enough, I will build the motor for you and send it. This way you can take it apart peace by peace and see how it works. The one thing you cant take apart is the coil. If you try it will ruin it.
Jason
i just found a magnet supply place here in my home town... im going to go have a look right now, ill update shortly.
if they have what i need my only problem will be the coil!.(s).
Hello
I have a question, where does the excess energy come from to charge the 2nd battery? I was looking at the last circuit nastrand2000 posted and Im not getting this.
borg, try ebay for your magnets as well, there are quite a few dealers. Do a search for neodymium or ceramic magnets.
If your looking to do a replication I would suggest starting off with a simple bedini SSG circuit. This calls for ceramic magnets around a bicycle rim. They are alot cheaper and give excellent results. Some people argue that they are better that the stronger magnets, and I notice that Bedini uses them over Neo's mostly.
Ive got my hall switched motor crankin now, Its unbelieveable how fast its going. Its drawing about an amp, but this is adjustable by simply changing the position of the switch. I've had it as low as .4 of an amp. I ran it for about half an hour last night and everything remained dead cold, and battery didnt drop any voltage, infact it went up .01 of a volt. As it gets faster amp draw drops till it settles on a spot related to positioning of sensors.
I still need a way to harness this voltage coming off the secondaries. Its up to 60 volts now on the digital meter. I think whats happening when I hook up my analogue (needle) gauge is the spikes are being earthed because it drops to 5 or 10 volts. Theres definately more than 10 volts coming out though. When I hold the output lines my hands start to go numb with tingling. I will post some schematics and a video in the next couple of days and hopefully some one can help me refine and/or change the setup to benefit from this voltage spikes.
s
Quote from: allcanadian on September 11, 2007, 05:47:24 PM
Hello
I have a question, where does the excess energy come from to charge the 2nd battery? I was looking at the last circuit nastrand2000 posted and Im not getting this.
Hi ac
Good to have you back. I thought I was the only dumb ass who wasn't getting it.
Peter
In regards to winding coils check out this site.
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/howto/windingcoils.htm
They really are quite simple. Make sure you take note of whether you wind clock wise or anti, and finish the ends apart so you can tell the start from the finish. Oh and scrape the coating off the ends before you attach hookup wire.
Quote from: Ren on September 11, 2007, 06:05:42 PM
Ive got my hall switched motor crankin now, Its unbelieveable how fast its going. Its drawing about an amp, but this is adjustable by simply changing the position of the switch. I've had it as low as .4 of an amp. I ran it for about half an hour last night and everything remained dead cold, and battery didnt drop any voltage, infact it went up .01 of a volt. As it gets faster amp draw drops till it settles on a spot related to positioning of sensors.
I still need a way to harness this voltage coming off the secondaries. Its up to 60 volts now on the digital meter. I think whats happening when I hook up my analogue (needle) gauge is the spikes are being earthed because it drops to 5 or 10 volts. Theres definately more than 10 volts coming out though. When I hold the output lines my hands start to go numb with tingling. I will post some schematics and a video in the next couple of days and hopefully some one can help me refine and/or change the setup to benefit from this voltage spikes.
Hi Ren
Good to hear you're up and running. What # Hall IC and transistor are you using to switch the coil on? Are you using any diodes, heatsink,or resistor? Do you have a schematic of your circuit?
Peter
Hey tropes. The hall im using is a unipolar hall effect switch rated from 3 to 30 v I thing. Here is a page with all the tech.
http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/002e/0900766b8002e123.pdf. I brought from rsaustralia.com for about 3 bucks each. My circuit is essentially the simple tim harwood adams setup I posted a couple of pages back. One exception being a diode joining base and emmiter allow current to flow only from base to emmiter. I will draw a full schematic and post with a video soon. The seconday coils arent connected to anything, they just flow back through a series of bridges.
oops transistor is Power Darlington Transistor TIP147 PNP, also about three bucks.
i just got back from the magnet shop here in town, i was only able to afford small ones but im sure they will be a good start to work with, there about 2cm across and about 1cm thick... i was suprised when i got out of the car they flew out of my hand and stuck to the fender!....there MUCH stronger than i thought they would be, i under stand why your saying they break fingers ....im haveing problems already, i cant even get them apart!, im sure ill work something out tho.
..for now i need to try to build a coil, this will be the hardest part at this point i think, then ill work in getting the circut right,once again i wanna thank you guys for making all this so simple that i can almost understand it LoL.. i dont think i will untill it starts to spin and i can tinker with it tho :).
Thats the spirit Borgie. Start off small.
The coil isnt hard to build, I hand wind all my coils, can be a pain for the bigger ones, especially the bifilars but just put a movie on and wind as you watch. Thin double sided tape also helps keep your coil nice and neat. My first coil was made from wire scavenged from an old dropsaw motor, it was a pain to remove but it was free. Looking back at it now it was pretty dodgy, but it worked and proved a point.
If anyone wants them I have two small single wind ones here that I wont need anymore, I'll be happy to post if you pay. But You'll have to make em sooner or later so have a stab.You cant have any connections , it must be a single piece of wire.
Once you have your coil, connect the ends to the + and - of the battery, it makes it easier if you install a simple switch between the positive of the battery and the coil. Switch on and go pick up some paperclips, switch off and they drop off! Nice.
Then build a simple wheel with good bearings, old computer hard drives are an excellent source, although you'll most likely need to buy some cheap tools to get into them. Theres some good magnets inside them too that you can scavenge.
Once your wheels built mount the coil near it and give it a spin. Try to repell or attract the magnets on the wheel by pressing your switch at just the right time to keep the momentum going. A microswitch will make this easier than say a light switch. This will give you a basic understanding of the forces at play. Oh and if you find that your coil doesnt repell the magnet simply switch the positive and negative to the opposite wires.
Ren , thanks for that simple * how to tinker lesson, and i thnik ill take you up on your coil offer.... i have a couple old HDs , i used to fix and build Pcs as a hobbie and then worked for 10 years troubleshooting anf setting up small net works, nothing big and serious tho,pretty basic easy stuff, this is why i know i can do this motor thingy thing..its just a matter of learning, im really excited about some of the stuff i see around the forums, but im not out fix, solve or creat OU (ill leave that up to the experts) but what im wanting to simply do is have a good little engine create a fair amount of power that i can use like a wall socket........you know plug in a pc and light...surely it cant take that much can it ?( im probly gonna cry if you say it cant be done)....i see two possable ways really(i dont see how yet ,there ideas) ONE: is to hook a gen to it some how, thats kinda my 2nd option tho..what i really want to do .....TWO: is see what all the fuss about this back energy stuff is all about and see if that cant be used..so far ive gotten the ipression that it doesnt seem to be, but i keep thinking i see ppl store it in caps?( i really have noidea what a cap is or how it can be used, but i keep seeing ppl saying and showing * this much goes in to run it( some small amoount) AND this much comes out and starts chargeing or getting stored up,or something ?,/shrug...so im really going with out a clue and more like, just a thought from what ive seen........just to make a little power is all , not save the world :)
i really enjoy your guys posts and have really been reading it over and over and over like some one possessed :)
( and i still dont really get it LoL, but im sure i can given some time, and i love learning stuff like this).
MY next step is the coils, let me know what u find out about postage and Send me a message( i dont check me email that much tho), i cant wait to get all the parts and see it run :), feels like xmas is coming hehe ( oh it is! ).
Quote from: tropes on September 11, 2007, 06:08:27 PM
Quote from: allcanadian on September 11, 2007, 05:47:24 PM
Hello
I have a question, where does the excess energy come from to charge the 2nd battery? I was looking at the last circuit nastrand2000 posted and Im not getting this.
Hi ac
Good to have you back. I thought I was the only dumb ass who wasn't getting it.
Peter
Tropes,
I'm not sure there is excess energy coming out of this, what is coming out is a high voltage spike from a collapsing magnetic field. Voltage isnt energy. Volts times Amps is energy (wattage).
Jason
My previous picture is showing how to capture that spike in voltage and store it into a cap (capacitor).
@ Borg,
Even though the voltage is higher then a wall socket, you wont be able to draw power from it like a wall socket. The wall can give around 20 amps at 120 volts. This setup will give 120 volts at .001 amps. So this wont help our energy needs. Again this thread is only to show how to setup a working pulse motor.
Jason
However, I'm not saying this motor is worthless. Quite the contrary, this is the first step to building greater things. The motor has alot of torque for the power input. If I was to run my whimhurst machine with this motor, the output would be around 40,000 volts. The amperage would be small, but I think it would be more efficient. Right now I am recapturing about 30 percent of the power with no drag on the motor.
My end game plan is to be able to split water with voltage alone. And this takes about 1,000,000 volts, but there is almost no current draw to do it. The the machine will run itself plus other things hooked to it.
Jason
ok then ...it needs to be built with power.....is there some kind of home made gen or something common that can be hooked up to it..must be something it can turn easy...like an old bike dynamo type thingy.. ?.
.. so two basic problems here , motor grunt useing no power or next to none
and then a gen that can spin very easy and puts out a good punch!...
Now your getting at the crux of the problem with overunity (output more then input). The problem is, that its not very easy to rewrite the laws of physics and chemistry. But we all work towards that goal.
Jason
here is the latest video. The motor is running at 2 volts at 15 milliamp with the new coil. Output is around 80 volts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MssgnWZRCbI&mode=user&search=
Jason
Ive decided to start running this motor at 3 volts ( easy to reproduce, 2 double A batteries). This should make replication for others easier.
Jason
Nice Jase this is excellent work!
I might try running mine on a lower voltage to see how it goes too. I know that the Adams motor group apparaently found harmonies/efficiencies @ 9 volts, it would be interesting to see if it runs differently at different voltages, output vs input wise.
@ Borgie. Dont give up hope. I strongly suggest you look at John Bedini's work in this area. An excellent dvd to see how it fits into a real world applications is the Energy from the Vacuum series (part two has a tour of his workshop).
When you study his diagrams and understand how he harnesses this form of energy you'll have a better understanding of what is achieveable. You could technically build something to power a small device, or large, it depends on how much you know and apply to your design. John has graciously given us many hints, full schematics and a wide variety of different replications to study.
Remember, Google is your friend ;D
by the way borgie what you were suggesting before about efficient motor turning a dynamo/alternator has been done, and it seems to work very well. The late Bill Muller built/designed some of these rv's (roto verters or something).
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/BillMuller/index.html <- this is a great network for lots of information.
Check out Bills machine. 38 amps in 400 amps out. Not even running all the coils. If thats no ou I dont know what is.
My understanding is that it is all in the design of the coils and cores. Special amorphous cores are used for minimum drag. I read somewhere that you could turn the rotor by hand easily. It is a fine art thats for sure. Jim Watson along with John Bedini built some motors that were similar to this in my opinon. In the '80s they built these "bucking Generators" which apparaently ran faster/drew less amps under load.
http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm <- I have a better link to it somewhere.
My understanding was that for example.
1 12 volt permanent magnet motor turns a shaft with an alternator/pulse motor on the other end. There is a heavy flywheel in between to help keep up momentum. Power is applied to pmm (permanent magnet motor) to start and get up to speed. Once speed reached power is pulsed say 20% to that motor while power is pulsed/generated on alternator end. Gravity helps cover the difference.
Just out of interest my wheel can easily turn small magnet motors. I had one making 9 volts without any noticeable effect to the motor. I have seen little hobby motors intended for small toy windmills. Because they are actual functioning models the motors need to be as frictionless (reffered to as cogging) as possible to produce anything worth while. I saw one in the store which was max rated 10 volts 1 amp.
Theres alot of stuff there sorry, I was bored at work. Go over all the links though, some very useful information.
also this page.
http://www.linux-host.org/energie/adamsmotorguide.htm
Quote from nastrand2000
QuoteI'm not sure there is excess energy coming out of this, what is coming out is a high voltage spike from a collapsing magnetic field. Voltage isnt energy. Volts times Amps is energy (wattage).
Jason
Ahhh, now were getting to the heart of the matter, voltage(potential difference) times amps(current flow) = wattage(energy). So we have no real energy in a 12 volt car battery because while we can measure potential difference as voltage across it's terminals, we have no current flow in it without a closed circuit. That doesn't sound right, the battery has lots of energy in it without any current flowing, potential energy just sitting there. So energy capacity might be nothing more than the ability of a voltage source to maintain it's voltage dispite being discharged by current flow. If the voltage never dropped in a battery or a capacitor how can it be discharged? Voltage is the electrical "pressure" that drives the electric current "flow", no pressure no flow. If we could somehow put volts into a battery but no amps then the battery could never discharge itself because the voltage "pressure" would never drop, we would not need energy (wattage) to do this because as nastrand2000 said "Voltage isn't energy". I wonder how we could do this? a negative discharge into the positive terminal of the battery? A positive charge and a negative discharge are opposite conditions but what if the negative discharge was forced to move in the opposite direction? towards the positive terminal of a battery-- what is it then?
Questions and more questions, all we have are questions
Quote from: allcanadian on September 12, 2007, 01:52:37 PM
If we could somehow put volts into a battery but no amps then the battery could never discharge itself because the voltage "pressure" would never drop, we would not need energy (wattage) to do this because as nastrand2000 said "Voltage isn't energy". I wonder how we could do this? a negative discharge into the positive terminal of the battery? A positive charge and a negative discharge are opposite conditions but what if the negative discharge was forced to move in the opposite direction? towards the positive terminal of a battery-- what is it then?
Questions and more questions, all we have are questions
ac
Here is my question: Can a motor/generator be built that creates enough energy to charge a secondary power source (capacitor/ battery) so this 2nd power source can be used to power the motor/generator, and this process repeated?
Questions and more questions.
Peter
Tropes,
The answer is yes. Can my motor do that? No...not at this point. However, I continue to make improvements to it so that is may do that in the future. But I fear that even if it can run itself, there will be no excess energy for use to other devices. I think water is the key to our global problem. Water makes great fuel.
Jason
Just so we stay on track in this thread, lets not worry about overunity at this point. The point of this thread is to create a working pulse motor and to recapture as much energy as possible.
Jason
i have to say im not looking for OU as well , but id like to think a pulse motor could hook up to(this i found in another forum here)..http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45416
....or even to produce half of the power this offers would be more than handy....
..are there any good and sturdy ways of building this pulse engine so it has good grunt?.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 12, 2007, 04:58:57 PM
Just so we stay on track in this thread, lets not worry about overunity at this point. The point of this thread is to create a working pulse motor and to recapture as much energy as possible.
Jason
Jason
I agree we should stay on track. If you look back to page 1 of this thread you will see the original discussion of the Adams Motor. We should keep this in mind as we move forward. It may benefit us all to refer to
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/adamsmotor.htm as a good background for the creation of a working pulse motor and the recapture of as much energy as possible.
Peter
@ all canadian. I think your on to something when you suggest negative to positive. I have been studying Bedinis drawings and it seems like the batteries are connected in series with the energizer/pulse motor in between. Have a look at this pic and study the energy flow. John reffers to it as a negative resistor I think. Looking at his examples there is no reason why you can't have a smaller bank charging a larger bank of batteries, and then its simply a matter of shuffling the batteries to keep it running. You can run just about anything with a bank and inverter.
John says its the voltage spike, it always has been. Capturing it and using it is the key.
@ Borgie. Its alot harder than you think to make a motor that uses less power than the one it drives. Otherwise it would be done more often. In Energy from the Vacuum part 2 John shows you the biggest monopole he's made, about 1 meter in circumference I suppose. It charges a bank of batteries that can put out 2000w, how much more do you need.
Everyone needs to look at this page if you havent already.... http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html
By the way Borgi3, send your address to shannrennatoptusnetdotcomdotau (replace appropriate @ and .....) and I'll look how much it is to send you those coils.
Your right peter, but I believe that bedinis technique and circuit is essential to capturing/harnessing the adams motor's potential.
another good page for adams http://www.linux-host.org/energie/adamsmotorguide.htm
forgot to post pic
Borg,
1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts. To turn this generator and produce 10000 watts ( which is about half of what a normal house uses per day ) you would need an engine that produces 13.41 horsepower at the shaft. My pulse motor creates 1/1500 of a horsepower at the shaft. Two 6.5 horsepower lawnmower motors would run the generator in you post. Run them on water and your free and clear. But first you have to figure out how to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen efficiently. Also if you burn hydrogen and oxygen in your engines you will melt the piston heads, because it burns to hot.
Jason
I agree Jase that the quickest and easiest way to implement a new technology is to adapt it to current tech, i.e the combustion engine. I actually started out studying electroylyzers and their design. I have alot of good information on building an efficient one if your interested. I wont go into it in this thread.
I still consider a stored form of power superior, if maintainable, because it means the consumption of nothing but power. Hydrogen may be the best fuel to burn, and perhaps thats what needs to happen to get counteract all the emmissions we have released already. I still see burning nothing as being a better option long term
Quote from: Ren on September 12, 2007, 05:53:17 PM
Your right peter, but I believe that bedinis technique and circuit is essential to capturing/harnessing the adams motor's potential.
another good page for adams http://www.linux-host.org/energie/adamsmotorguide.htm
You realize Ren that these are the same links!
After my conversation with Tim Harwood I realize there is no such thing as a simple Adams Motor. He told me, "The over-unity comes from manipulating this exotic pulsed state, not so much
from the magnets." He has also stated, "Push only motors can only ever be hot current devices.".
These comments have led to my intrigue with the attraction of rotor magnets to stator coils rather than push only (repulsion) motors.
Peter
ooops. sorry :D too many burbons!
I find it interesting that Tim says push motors can only be hot current motors when the coils run dead cold. I dont fully understand it. He is right about manipulating the exotic state I believe. I might change the polarity of my coil and reposition the sensors to see if attraction can be more useful.
Quote from: Ren on September 12, 2007, 07:27:55 PM
ooops. sorry :D too many burbons!
I find it interesting that Tim says push motors can only be hot current motors when the coils run dead cold. I dont fully understand it. He is right about manipulating the exotic state I believe. I might change the polarity of my coil and reposition the sensors to see if attraction can be more useful.
Ren
It may help to understand the "hot current motor" comment if you read it in it's entire context. If you go to the page
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/adamsmotor.htm
About 1/4 of the way down there is a drawing of two
Design Templates for simple Adams Motors. Under this drawing is a paragraph with the heading
Magnets. It is the 4th sentence in this paragraph.
Peter
my understanding of his "hot current" is when the designer tries to gain mechanical performance via powerful repulsion from powerful cores.
"The negative impulse delivered by the pms rapidly decays to zero as soon as the timing switch is closed. Hence the larger your magnets, the longer the pulse duration required, the harder it becomes to obtain 'cold current.' However, too small a magnet, and no 'yaw to register' is manifested - ESSENTIAL for the generation of the negative impulse in the first place. Push only motors can only ever be hot current devices. "
I thought he was reffering to magnet size versus pulse duration, stating that a smaller magnet will require a smaller pulse, hence less negative impulse decay.
I have tried and you can attract the magnet with your coil and shut it off just before it reaches dead center. Momentum is enough to carry it through, much like Jasons motor only pulses twice for every four passes. I shall have to see if voltage output is higher or lower in this mode. Interesting.
Quote from: Ren on September 12, 2007, 09:37:39 PM
I have tried and you can attract the magnet with your coil and shut it off just before it reaches dead center. Momentum is enough to carry it through, much like Jasons motor only pulses twice for every four passes. I shall have to see if voltage output is higher or lower in this mode. Interesting.
I believe that Jason's motor coil attracts the next rotor magnet as it repels the one at "dead center" since they are opposite poles (N-S-N-S).
Your thoughts Jason. This may also be a case where a flywheel would add to the momentum.
Peter
yes thats true. If the magnets are positioned close enough then theres no reason why you cant benefit from the push and the pull. Good thinking. I think its a shame that the other end of the coil is doing the same thing, except theres no magnets benefiting from it. I think two rotors would be interesting, connected on the same shaft. One side could be in attraction the other in repulsion.
I have also read that the nsns configuration is superior to a single pole rotor
here is a video I made. Making progress!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qStF_wbz97Y
@ REN:
Nice job on the motor. Have one of thoes in the back room too.
@ All:
Just a tid bit for you all. When deciding on your coils, you can wind them taylored to your situation. Ohms law will give you the size for the situation. Just shuffle it around to solve for resistance and that will dictate the size of coil. Example 12v and 1 amp comes out to be
12/1=12 or coil resistance of 12 ohms. That will be if you leave the coil "on" all the time but we dont in this type of motor. Then run it as to almost equal the force of the magnet.
@ Nastrand
Will PM you and we will talk some
Quote from: Ren on September 13, 2007, 01:40:53 AM
here is a video I made. Making progress!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qStF_wbz97Y
Hey Ren
Good to see the progress. I'm still putting together a 4 piston Sotropa Motor and have plans for a rotary motor with 4 coils between two rotors. I will be gone for awhile due to surgery next week but when I get back I will share the rotary motor plans. Keep having fun.
Peter
BTW this is a good site for someone just starting to build
http://www.simplemotor.com/
I hooked the collector up to the bridge as well and almost doubled my output. The second coils dont fire but are still sending back significant amounts of high voltage spike. I might try hooking them up to fire as well and see if that gives a better result. Here is a schematic, excuse the quality please, its the first Ive ever drawn!
Hopefully someone can benefit from it, or even better still, hopefully someone can make a comment or suggestion.
One thing I do per night is figure out how much wattage I want the motor to consume during its normal operation. And I personally never go over 1 watt consumption for my motors. Then I try to tune the motor for the most output I can get for the input I am giving it. This has taught me alot about different efficiencies at different inputs. It helps me to make one goal per night and see the outcomes.
Jason
Ren,
Very good schematic, It is very easy to see how you are running the motor.
Jason
just out of interest I re-wired my motor to run in attraction mode by reversing the coil connections. Is this right? In hindsight I probably could have just turned the coil around. Results for input and output were almost identical, with attraction drawing slightly more amps, but I think if I played with the timing they would be neither here nor there. Has anyone noticed a superior result with either attraction or repulsion?
I notice Bedini has built models with both forms.
Ive never noticed much difference in motor rotation or wattage draw as long as the timing was correct. With my motors, with there magnets are so closely spaced, I'm sure both attraction and repulsion are at work.
Jason
yes jase, that is where it could be very useful in your application. I might hit you up on your offer for a vid tutorial on how to wire up + time device with transistor and varible resistor. If the offer still stands. And no rush either, I still have lots of experiments I can run with these halls. I'll even post you over one if your interested for your troubles, they're tiny and only cost a couple of bucks. ;D
Hey Ren,
I will do up a video, though it might take some time to make it educational, in the next few days or weeks. I thank you for your offer, But I can buy the halls when I'm through testing this circuit completely. One thing I have found in the past is, it is always good to have extra parts around. Again, Thank you.
Jason
Ren,
I have found "D1" to be uneeded in my circuit. It waistes voltage spikes and added current.
Jason
However there is more testing to do. Learn as much as you can from Bedini circuits. I believe that he has great understanding in this area, and I respect him greatly.
Jason
Thanks Jason for the tips and once again, no rush on the tut. When your bored and got a minute spare. Cheers.
So the diode is unnecessary you say? Even restricts the flow somewhat? I was reading somewhere that it helps protect current from flowing the wrong way thats why I put it in there. I'll remove it from my setup and see if it makes any difference. thanks champ.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 15, 2007, 12:19:59 AM
However there is more testing to do. Learn as much as you can from Bedini circuits. I believe that he has great understanding in this area, and I respect him greatly.
Jason
Okay, I have reread this Bedini article: http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm
and I am uploading a circuit diagram. It appears that Bedini constructed his coils with one layer of wire wrapped on top of the other; the bottom layer for pulsing thr magnet on the rotor and the top layer for capturing the BEMF. Am I reading this correctly?
Peter
Has anyone here who is building pulse motors used air core motor coils? I have a pulse motor which uses iron core coils but has extreme heating problems. I am positive the heating is all due to eddy currents within the iron. My rotor is made of ferrite permanent magnets. I am running it off rectified mains voltage fed into a capacitor, which stays at about 160 volts. The motor when in operation uses about 800 ma. When I power up my motor it rapidly accelerates to 4000 rpm but after only a 2 minute run the cores are heated to about 175 degrees. Probably the main factor which causes heating in my cores is that I use pulse width modulation to control the motor speed since this is the best way to control motor speeds at higher power levels. Therefore the core is turning on and off multiple times as the magnet passes the core. The next thing I am planning on trying is winding some flat air core coils to drive the motor unless I am told something about air core coils that I had not considered. I realize that air core coils are not going to produce the same amount of flux as a iron core coil which means I will have to drive them with higher power pulses, but I dont have any other ideas about how to deal with this heating issue.
Chad
I suggest you upload a circuit diagram or photo. Then take the time to go back and read this thread from where Jason came on. That way, you will be up to speed and some of your questions will be answered.
Peter
Tropes,
23a and 23b are the output coils for the recovery. You may want to check out the full patent at http://www.google.com/patents?id=wSkJAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,392,370
Jason
Ren,
I replaced the diode in the circuit and let it charge up a 9 volt battery. It seems that it charges just as fast as without it. It cuts the motor input by almost half. From 5volts @ 25 milliamp to 5volts @ 15 milliamp. So, I am going to continue to use the circuit with the diode in place. The only thing the diode doesn't allow me to do is run the motor at 3 volts or less.
Jason
Chadj2,
I use only air coils with my motors. This is because I use very large neo's, and working with iron around them is damn near impossible to change setups easily.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 15, 2007, 03:22:03 PM
Tropes,
23a and 23b are the output coils for the recovery. You may want to check out the full patent at http://www.google.com/patents?id=wSkJAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,392,370
Jason
Thanks Jason. I checked it out and it looks like he wraps 23a over top 22a and 23b over top 22b. If that's the case, you should be able to wrap 2 wires around the same core and use one to pulse and one to capture BEMF.
Tropes
Tropes,
Yes, you could wrap a trifilar coil and use my exact setup and use the third wire to capture the back emf. Or you could wrap a three layered coil. It would be a good experiment to try both setups. I may have to try this.
Jason
Well, my camera died so no videos for a bit.
Ren,
While charging a capacitor, with the diode in place it charges to 90+ volts and without it charges to 150+volts. However it doesn't seem to change the battery charging capacity of the circuit. I assume this has to do with the battery chemistry.
Jason
mmm ok, so diode might not necessarily be a bad thing, for battery charging purposes. Do I have it the right way in my schematic? It allows current to flow from base to emmiter only. Mine is slightly different because I'm using hall to trigger.
@ tropes. My setup seems to capture voltage on the secondary winding which is totally isolated from any source of power. Check out this simple diagram, it is very similar to how I set mine up, except I dont need a third wind to trigger the power coil.
@ Jase. I want to try charging a battery soon off this collected output. Can you recommend a safe and effective method. Do you dump into a cap and pulse the cap into the battery like this diagram, or do you just flow it constantly? Do you use the Konehead diagram thats posted early on in this thread?
Ren,
Well I squeezed one more video out of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4Ny3Y42jw&mode=user&search=
Jason
Ren,
I find that letting it flow directly into the battery, rather then dumping it from a cap, charges the battery faster.
Jason
Ren,
Im capturing the collapsing field off the collector and emitter.
Jason
what voltage is hitting your battery jase? What sort of time frame to charge?
Ren,
400 volt spikes according to the oscilloscope hitting the battery. Time to charge a 9 volt (duracell that is not rechargeable) is around 4 hours. End voltage is around 11 volts.
Jason
Please remember that I am using a variable power supply to run this motor and not another battery. The power supply is plugged into the wall. all I'm trying to figure out is the best way to create a circuit for recharging a battery before I use a battery to run this motor.
Jason
I suppose I should start charging a a 1.5 farad 24 volt cap (which is a monster cap) at differing voltages to the motor. This would setup a control that could be verified by other researchers. This seems to be the only way that battery chemistry is not involved. But by removing chemistry from the equation, I think that we might lose an integral piece to the puzzle.
Jason
I got a 2 farad 24 volt, great aint they!
Try charging it up and put it on your motor with no other power source.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 15, 2007, 09:18:15 PM
I suppose I should start charging a a 1.5 farad 24 volt cap (which is a monster cap) at differing voltages to the motor. This would setup a control that could be verified by other researchers. This seems to be the only way that battery chemistry is not involved. But by removing chemistry from the equation, I think that we might lose an integral piece to the puzzle.
Jason
24 volts is too much to run my motor at. Im not looking for 3000 rpm. It would rip my motor apart.
Jason
Erm..whatever supply you normally run the motor from, charge the capacitor from that, the voltage label on the capacitor just states the maximum voltage it can be safely charged to.
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 16, 2007, 12:42:30 AM
24 volts is too much to run my motor at. Im not looking for 3000 rpm. It would rip my motor apart.
Jason
Im not sure you understand the reason for this thread. It is to help others learn how to build a working pulse motor. I use a variable power supply, 0 - 30 volts and 0 - 3 amps. I'm fully aware of my motors capabilities and limitations. I have built more pulse motors then I care to count at this point. I'm trying to show others how to build them the simplest way with the best results for energy capture. I went to school first for chemical engineering then for electrical engineering, but their explanations of quantum phenomena were less then Adequate. This is why I continue to search for my own answers.
Jason
I don't mean to sound rude, and after reading my last post it seems that I am being that way. I apologize for that. I am just not clear I guess on your questions. I have charged my caps to differing levels and let the motor run strictly off of them. the motor will run for about 10 minutes of a 10 volt charge.
Jason
No problem, your forwardness is tame compared to others I will not mention ;)
I've charged my cap up to 20 volts and got my Newman motor to run for 1 hour 24 minutes from it, kinda hoping the charge claim made by Newman would keep it running, but hey its got another use now, the back emf is conditioning my HHO tubes ;D
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 16, 2007, 02:05:41 AM
I don't mean to sound rude, and after reading my last post it seems that I am being that way. I apologize for that. I am just not clear I guess on your questions. I have charged my caps to differing levels and let the motor run strictly off of them. the motor will run for about 10 minutes of a 10 volt charge.
Jason
hi Jason, and all.
..i notice you have made many of these , can you draw /, what is the best configeration for crank power?,so it can run just a small gen say to only light say 5x 100Watt bulbs....and in theory the pulse engine can power it self on caps charges?
i guess im asking do bigger magnets and more of them and bigger coils =stronger faster?.. Rens engine looks like it goes pretty fast...is it becasue of more magnets and more pulses?.
The differential Hall sensor IC detects the motion and position of ferromagnetic and permanent magnet structures by measuring the differential flux density of the magnetic field. Offset cancellation is achieved by advanced digital signal processing.
Immediately after power-on motion is detected (start-up mode). After a few transitions the sensor has finished self-calibration and switches to a high-accuracy mode (running mode). In running mode switching occurs at signal zero-crossing of the arithmetic mean of max and min value of magnetic differential signal.
very proud of you all
peace
Thanks adam. Good to see you in your thread again. I was going to ask a question on the internal workings of transistors, namely the difference of pnp to npn. I thought Id look first and came across a page which I found very helpful!
here it is for any that are interested.
http://www.markallen.com/teaching/ucsd/147a/lectures/lecture3/10.php
Thanks for the link Ren. I've read about the differences in pnp vs. npn in electronic books, but this site very simple.
Jason
thats all that works for me Jase, simple;D lol
Ren,
I have found that for my motor the diode is not needed unless I go over 7 volts input. Then the motor gives more to the output if the diode is used. So anyone working with a 12volt system should leave the diode in place.
Jason
Peter,
I wouldnt mind starting a new thread for people that want to build pulse motors. If we can get a consensus from Ren, and borg, Then I will start a new thread.
Jason
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 16, 2007, 09:36:00 PM
Peter,
I wouldnt mind starting a new thread for people that want to build pulse motors. If we can get a consensus from Ren, and borg, Then I will start a new thread.
Jason
Jason
I think it would be great to have all our different setups and circuits in one thread. You could start one called "Setups and Circuits" and post links to your videos. We could all do the same with our circuits. What do the others think? Ren? Borg?
Peter
How about "circuit setups for pulse motors"
Jsaon
Quote from: Nastrand2000 on September 16, 2007, 09:54:01 PM
How about "circuit setups for pulse motors"
Jsaon
Okay Jsaon, but try to get the spelling right.
more pictures for me the better :)..and video..id like to see a config with grunt.
that would be fine by me..
I'm against spelling things correctly.
joadstn :P
Borg,
your asking for a motor that will output more then it takes to run (if it was that easy, we would not be here in this forum). You want to run 5 100watt light bulb from a generator. You would need a motor that takes 750 watts to run this generator after losses. You would be better off running your lights off a wall socket or a battery connected to an inverter. Try to remember that 1 horsepower is roughly 750watts. So you would need a 1 horse motor or engine to run your generator. I suggest looking at running a lawn mower engine that runs on hydrogen and gas for your purposes. Most lawnmowvers are 4 horse+. To make your own generator, have a look at this site http://www.otherpower.com/
Jason
Happy new year people
Keep up the great work !!!!
Peace& love& Respect .
Hi all. I'm just getting started. I got my magnets, just ordered some Halls IC, and am VERY excited! I just read your entire thread and I fell like I know you dudes! GREAT WORK!
Although leagues behind you guys, I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks for all your doing....
Corey
P.S. My first post! ;D
Most of the time when these claims come about they are bogus or they have insufficient information to reproduce their experiment. Adam flow nemo is different in the way that he present his experimental data. I believe that he has seen "unity" in his experiments. Unity is not going to help us, however understanding his results will. First we must achieve unity, then surpass it. Please read his pages on his website to further understand his results. Welcome to the community of researchers dedicated to finding an answer to our impending issues.
Jason.
OK guys...how viable is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9wktSQdyaE
Check out hoptoads adams motor page for full adams motor details. There are links in Circuit setup for pulse motors thread. On another note I am having alot of fun with this little window motor I've built. Bedini circuit with bridge collecting collapse off the coils and rectifying to caps and scr. Works quite well considering I made it with leftovers from a microwave transformer etc. Front and back batteries seem to hold up well when interchanged. Draws 200ma on one coil and 1 amp on both coils. Charges quite fast considering, and the wheel has a fair bit of torque for its size.
Vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUvcZi0m9ek
If you watch his other videos it shows he uses a Hard Drive for the rotor.
yup. 2 hard drive discs with some small neos glued inbetween.
@Ren
Nice work!
I've had my Adams motor working for months but always had the problem of finding that "Sweet spot" in the switching. Well, that appears to have finally changed. Got to the point where my battery (only one) was self charging for a period of about eight hours before my crude attempt at a commutator broke down. It has taken a week to get back to that point (self charging) but, and I do mean BUT, I've done it using an external switching device. It is now self charging but I'm at an impass...
How to get the same switching without adding any extra drain.
My motor is a twenty two inch bicycle wheel with 12 magnets, all north facing out. Two bifilar coils of 20 AWG and each winding is approximately 5.5 ohms and they are mounted at 90 and 270 degrees. Running them on a SSG ckt using a reed switch for pulse timing. Both coils are being pulsed in paralell and I'm using both windings in both coils. Picking up my feedback voltage from two other coils (one is 7 lbs of 18 AWG and the other is about 5 lbs of 20 AWG.) located at 0 and 180 degrees.
It IS working and now it is time to add that final piece to the puzzle. Commutator from a bicycle wheel. Any and all suggestions will be entertained to get this switching right.
Thanks to all who pursue this motor for your help by posting on this site.
Carl
Thanks carl.
May I suggest this site? http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Schematics.html. You have probably already seen it, but I suggest making a commutator similar in design to image 12 or 14. You may spend twice as long making a commutator as you did making the whole project, but if you think it through and make it adjustable and the contacts easy to replace, then it will last alot longer.
Good luck.
@ Ren
Appreciate the link and any more to come.
Just for now I'm not going to touch this arrangement to see how far it will go in this charging process.
This is a 1500 AH deep cycle battery I'm working with and it does take time to see the change.
Started this morning at 12.34V periodically showing 12.33 and as I write it is 12.36 periodically showing 12.35. I want to know that I've got this timing thing rite, so I'll let her run overnight.
Thanks again for the response.
Carl
Hi Folks,
I am a new member and new to this technology. I am great full for all the people that are involved with it . This looks like a great sharing community and I hope that I may be use full in helping when I get up to speed. Thanks for the info. on the coil circuits and take care, I'll give it a try and keep everyone posted.
Regards,Jim Stearns
your welcome
peace
Message moved to active thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3318.msg80692.html#msg80692
same as above
same - moved
any reason why we need to log on to read posts?
just asking