Overunity.com Archives

Hi All,
here is a picture and a circuit diagram from John Peters,
who has designed a solid state Bedini Charger.
He says:


"In this solidstate circuit the radiant energy apears when charging the first capacitor bank, and after the big capacitor discharge to the battery, with the right timing pulses. That circuit consume miliAmps, the first blue capacitors are charged with only one wire from the transformer secondary and two diodes. No current from the secondary."

You wouldn't by any chance have a parts list with values for the schematic shown, would you?

Just a word of precaution:

You've (also) basically made a quite broadband transmitter, and when you run it then you'll be "polluding" the radio bands, amongst other.
When run with square waves you'll have harmonic over-tones, and if you're unlucky you'll interfer crutial frequency bands - and you'll get a visit from the "MIB"  :-\

There's a reason why all electronic equipment has to comply with CE or FCC regulations  :o
I can tell you that some of the CE requirements are VERY tight, and even a small electronic system with a 20 MHz microcontroller with address/data busses routed around on a motherboard (4 layer pcb - one ground plane)can cause the test to fail.

This seems to be something that most people here don't think about  :(

Quote from: hartiberlin on June 22, 2007, 06:23:58 PM
Hi All,
here is a picture and a circuit diagram from John Peters,
who has designed a solid state Bedini Charger.
He says:


"In this solidstate circuit the radiant energy apears when charging the first capacitor bank, and after the big capacitor discharge to the battery, with the right timing pulses. That circuit consume miliAmps, the first blue capacitors are charged with only one wire from the transformer secondary and two diodes. No current from the secondary."

Now I like the idea of doing away with all the moving parts here...
as far as I've been able to figure from Bedini's patents and other papers, he uses the motors mainly to generate a high voltage...
But if it all works like Bearden and Bedini describe it, you don't really need the moving motor part at all,
because you should be able to achieve the desired radiant energy charge effect in any system pulsing hV in the right form...
However, 95% of all Bedini tech seems to focus on rotating motors or different types...
A personal preference of Bedini's, perhaps?

In any case, I do have a question.

All of the devices that use Bedini's "radiant energy" charge pulse, seem to use a battery.
Whatever the exact source of the hV charge, be it truly "radiant energy" or "back emf",
if the fact is that a hV charge is briefly generated which can be used by cunning switching,
then why does every embodiment need to charge a battery?
It should be possible to use that charge to feed a capacitor bank, and use the capacitor bank to produce a continuous output... shouldn't it?
So why not turn it into a system that doesn't charge batteries, but rather produces direct output?
I'd rather have a device ito which I can plug my extension cord, than one that can charge my batteries...

Does anyone know of such a Bedini type device that does produce the OU that Bedinis motor/battery chargers use,
but which is not yet another battery charger?

From the picture, I see a number of transistors (mosfets?) but not timing / pulse generator. Could this picture incomplete or did John Peters got a sort of oscillator circuit running?

Yes, a more electronics schematic (not a concept schema) with parts list and value would be most helpful.

Regards, cp

There isn't by any chance anyone here who have listened to Open Mind?
Because in one of the broadcasts were John Bedini was a guest, two viewers who had worked together called in and told them that they had made a solidstate version of bedini's devise. They explained alot of the theory, in adition to another phycisist/scientist who called in and explained about alot of wierd results he got from experiments he had conducted with the radiant energy.
I just wonder if you by any case is one of the those guys who made the devise work?

>â€Ã...“In this solidstate circuit the radiant energy apears when charging the first capacitor bank, and after the big capacitor discharge to the batteryâ€Ã,

Where is your discharge circuitry none are in the picture or the diagram?
You have your battery schematic backwards. The secondary shape of your coil is not the one in your drawing.

> â€Ã...“with the right timing pulses.â€Ã,
What is the â€Ã...“right timingâ€Ã,?  One Hertz? Hundred Hertz? At what times do you trigger the discharge?

>â€Ã, That circuit consume milliampsâ€Ã,

How many mA? How did you measure it? An Amp meter, scope across a resistor? Be specific.

>â€Ã, the first blue capacitors are charged with only one wire from the transformer secondary and two diodes.â€Ã,

No they are charged by induction from the primary winding.

>â€Ã, No current from the secondary."
Again, how do you know? How did you measure it?

I agree with @Thedane you have a crude broadband transmitter. I hope you don’t live near a hospital to interfere with life support devices. And don’t be surprised if people triangulate your position and ring your door bell.
@Thedane, The reason they don’t think about these things, is because they don’t have a clue of what they are doing.

If people are not willing to share complete (scientific) experimental data, they should not post teasers. We have enough of those.

I made an almost exact device a few years ago (except the top diode between the end of the primary and + of the battery) to see what all the hoopla was about and didn’t find any extra energy. The best result I got was at 2400Hz@15% duty cycle 12v pulses into the primary of a microwave oven high voltage transformer. The batteries went up to 14 volts after 10 minutes but that was a surface charge that only took ~2 minutes to discharge to the original voltage of 12.4v

Tried frequencies from 1 Hz to 10kHz in 10 Hz increments and duty cycles from 1% to 50% in 1% increments with a PIC microcontroller I programmed for this purpose that did the freq/duty changes, charging and discharging, all under program control and logged the results in memory for me to download and study.
I also built an Adams motor and a Bedini SSG and thought they were interesting to watch, but no excess energy was found no matter what combinations I tried.
So I’m not some â€Ã...“arm-chairâ€Ã,, nay sayer, theorist. I put months of work and hundreds if not thousands of $ in to it. What a waste of time and money. But I did learn something for sure, â€Ã...“These devices don’t workâ€Ã,. Maybe I am another fool to stick around these forums. Maybe I am hoping I did something wrong that I can see from reading some ones post. So far, nada.

P.S. I shielded my experiments in a Faraday cage to deal with the RF. I don’t want that knock on my door and the hefty fine that comes with itâ€Ã,¦

So, builder beware.

Quote from: zpfe on September 19, 2008, 07:52:00 AM
>“In this solidstate circuit the radiant energy apears when charging the first capacitor bank, and after the big capacitor discharge to the battery”

Where is your discharge circuitry none are in the picture or the diagram?
You have your battery schematic backwards. The secondary shape of your coil is not the one in your drawing.

> “with the right timing pulses.”
What is the “right timing”?  One Hertz? Hundred Hertz? At what times do you trigger the discharge?

>” That circuit consume milliamps”

How many mA? How did you measure it? An Amp meter, scope across a resistor? Be specific.

>” the first blue capacitors are charged with only one wire from the transformer secondary and two diodes.”

No they are charged by induction from the primary winding.

>” No current from the secondary."
Again, how do you know? How did you measure it?

I agree with @Thedane you have a crude broadband transmitter. I hope you don’t live near a hospital to interfere with life support devices. And don’t be surprised if people triangulate your position and ring your door bell.
@Thedane, The reason they don’t think about these things, is because they don’t have a clue of what they are doing.

If people are not willing to share complete (scientific) experimental data, they should not post teasers. We have enough of those.

I made an almost exact device a few years ago (except the top diode between the end of the primary and + of the battery) to see what all the hoopla was about and didn’t find any extra energy. The best result I got was at 2400Hz@15% duty cycle 12v pulses into the primary of a microwave oven high voltage transformer. The batteries went up to 14 volts after 10 minutes but that was a surface charge that only took ~2 minutes to discharge to the original voltage of 12.4v

Tried frequencies from 1 Hz to 10kHz in 10 Hz increments and duty cycles from 1% to 50% in 1% increments with a PIC microcontroller I programmed for this purpose that did the freq/duty changes, charging and discharging, all under program control and logged the results in memory for me to download and study.
I also built an Adams motor and a Bedini SSG and thought they were interesting to watch, but no excess energy was found no matter what combinations I tried.
So I’m not some “arm-chair”, nay sayer, theorist. I put months of work and hundreds if not thousands of $ in to it. What a waste of time and money. But I did learn something for sure, “These devices don’t work”. Maybe I am another fool to stick around these forums. Maybe I am hoping I did something wrong that I can see from reading some ones post. So far, nada.

P.S. I shielded my experiments in a Faraday cage to deal with the RF. I don’t want that knock on my door and the hefty fine that comes with it…

So, builder beware.

Its you who have a problem then, not everybody else. Do not spread distrust in this invention just because its to hard for you to figure out.

@Nabooo,
The problem with people like you (and the rest of your cult members) is that you BELIEVE anyone who says something you like to hear and bash others who say things you don’t want to hear.
If you are such a believer you must have a working unit! Oh let me guess, you just THINK it should work but are too lazy to do the work. Why bother building it if it should work? It all sounds plausible doesn’t it? Why would men try for 20, 30 or 60 years if there was nothing there? Why wouldn’t they just give up?

I am beginning to think that all this Radiant energy is nothing but a scam to sell books and videos and recruit uneducated high school drop-outs and gullible inexperienced people as fans to do free experiments for the cult leaders. Sure sounds like a cult to me.
How is that for a conspiracy theory?

If any of these machines worked, why are Tom Bearden, John Bedini, Peter Lindemann, etc still alive? Would it not be logical for these evil powers of the world to take these people out? Wouldn’t the rest of the cult just crumble after that?

I have better things to do on my day off than to argue with a bunch of fanatics who are just running on faith, relying on their illogical arguments.
If anyone has educated logical arguments, count me in the discussion. Otherwise, you’re free to bash me all you want and quote more of your outrages â€Ã...“pot-headâ€Ã,, alcoholic theories and conspiracies. I won’t say another word and only reply to those who make logical arguments even if their observations are contrary to mine.

Quote from: zpfe on September 19, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
@Nabooo,
The problem with people like you (and the rest of your cult members) is that you BELIEVE anyone who says something you like to hear and bash others who say things you don’t want to hear.
If you are such a believer you must have a working unit! Oh let me guess, you just THINK it should work but are too lazy to do the work. Why bother building it if it should work? It all sounds plausible doesn’t it? Why would men try for 20, 30 or 60 years if there was nothing there? Why wouldn’t they just give up?

I am beginning to think that all this Radiant energy is nothing but a scam to sell books and videos and recruit uneducated high school drop-outs and gullible inexperienced people as fans to do free experiments for the cult leaders. Sure sounds like a cult to me.
How is that for a conspiracy theory?

If any of these machines worked, why are Tom Bearden, John Bedini, Peter Lindemann, etc still alive? Would it not be logical for these evil powers of the world to take these people out? Wouldn’t the rest of the cult just crumble after that?

I have better things to do on my day off than to argue with a bunch of fanatics who are just running on faith, relying on their illogical arguments.
If anyone has educated logical arguments, count me in the discussion. Otherwise, you’re free to bash me all you want and quote more of your outrages “pot-head”, alcoholic theories and conspiracies. I won’t say another word and only reply to those who make logical arguments even if their observations are contrary to mine.

I say this because I have heard that others have replicated it, and succesfully to some extent.
I am not in a cult (I hate cults and HATE scientology), I belive in what Bedini says because for what I have heard of him he seems honest, and he hasn't tried to sell his books as much as you indicated.
Radiant energy is interesting to me, and it wasn't John Bedini who started to use that term ( as I think you know) but Tesla. Based on practical experiments which he did, and results which are very hard to explain, (like the induction of electricity and the feeling of stings through many layers of shielding, in a faraday-cage-like fasion) Tesla could transmit power both in electrical and physical forms, (like forcing objects to viberate which didn't have any metalls inside them).

Of course you must think for yourself and make up your own mind, don't listen to me ;)
But I think there is merith to bedini's technology, and I have myself build the mechanical version, which by the way charged up batteries which couldn't take voltage from a normal charger :)

Btw, which system do you think has the best chance of making it as a new power source here on this forum?

   I say this because I have heard that others have replicated it, and succesfully to some extent.

I heard the same and that’s why I dove in and if anyone could replicate it, I would (so I thought). But the fact is that besides seeing some phenomena, I could not get it to output more power than I was inputting.
I also heard that no one with an engineering background has ever duplicated them. I had to try for myself and I did.
I contacted Robert Adams and asked him to help me duplicate his Golden Ratio Adams motor/generator back in 2001. At first, he was eager and I built a unit that he really liked, but when I failed to see any excess energy and asked hard questions, he sent me an email telling me that he no longer can help because he has investors that are coming down on him hard.

Then I built a Bedini motor with the same results. Then I tried the solid state version with the same results. So, I don’t know. Maybe engineers can’t make these things work!

Then I got thinking. What if all of this is a scam of some sort? What if this is a marketing ploy to sell more book and DVD’s and become famous? Why would anyone built a motor if they claim a solid state can be made? Why put on a show with a big motor and 20 lamps?
Why do they claim they have been threatened and that’s why they don’t come out full force and start selling machines or kits but just feed bits and pieces of info here and there just to entice? Even more importantly, why are they still alive if they have what they say they have?
Are the power/oil companies this incompetent and can’t hire the right hit-man?
Why use a battery? Tesla didn’t use batteries or magnets in his radiant electricity.
What if I am just seeing unsuccessful inventors that just don’t give up? Their ego won’t leave them alone. Even if I could get a machine that charged batteries for free. Do you know how many batteries one would need to run a typical household? Over 100!
Maybe that’s why they are still alive!
It would be as impractical as today’s solar cells. Maybe good for lighting and running appliances under 1000 watts total.

These inventors all express great concern about the course we are taking as a race and badmouth greedy oil companies, but are unwilling to come clean and either put up or shut up without playing hide and seek mind games?
Are they hopping to get patents and sit on them until someone else comes out with a product they can sue for infringement?
It didn’t work for Robert Adams or Bill Muller and it will not work for any one else either.
If Adams and Muller had what they claimed, they were really horrible greedy men by taking that knowledge to their grave instead of sharing it with the rest of us. I for one, don’t think they had anything substantial. It just doesn’t add up.

I have read and understood ALL Tesla patents related to this subject. I too am intrigued by this genius and what he reported, but some of it is totally impractical. Like installing a large metal collector plate 30+ feet off the ground! I wouldn’t want to be even close to this setup when the thunder storm comes my way.
Just quoting Tesla in presenting one’s ideas doesn’t make it functional or practical either.
 
Its one thing to pulse charge dead batteries and sell battery rejuvenators but a very different story to claim excess energy. Pulse charging rejuvenators have been known for over 30 years. In fact, there was a design article in the Popular Electronics magazine in the 80’s on how to build one. I should’ve kept the article. It did exactly that. Brought dead lead acid and NiCads back to life by pulse charging them.

You see, when you start looking and asking hard questions, it all falls apart.
I have earned the right to complain. These people caused me to waste my time and money with their claims. If I was a litigation attorney instead of an engineer, I would’ve sued the pants off each and everyone of them for false representation.

Good luck to you all.
Time to eatâ€Ã,¦

@zpfe,
can you show a few youtube videos of your devices and show how you measured them ?
Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S: Did you test also the circuit of John Peters ?

Hi Stephan,

I don’t have a video camera but I have some pictures somewhere in one of my 5 computers. As far as youtube goes, it has no scientific value for me. It only shows that the motor is spinning or the meter is reading such and such.
As stated in my first post on this topic, I built an almost exact replica of john peter’s circuit about 3-4 years ago using a microwave oven high voltage transformer. I am not sure what he is using. May be a power supply line transformer of some sort connected backwards.

Since then, the unit has been cannibalized for parts for various other projects.
During the past few days, I’ve received over half a dozen private emails from various forums stating the same results I got. Some of these people have built more variations and have been at it for over 10 years! I don’t know what it would take for them to see that this road is a dead end? I’ve asked them to post their findings but I will respect their right to privacy and leave it to their conscious.

Initially, I used no test equipment except a high quality storage scope and no-inductance shunt resistors. Anything else is meaningless, since we are dealing with fast pulses.

Even then, there could be pulses that gets missed. So I decided to use 10 â€Ã...“Câ€Ã, size NiCad 5000mA in series to form a 12v supply. I charged and discharged this bank 3 times from 12.7 to 12.0 volts using a 100 watts 100 ohm power potentiometer and averaged out the discharge time. This gave me how much energy was in the batteries. The discharge rate through the potentiometer, matched the discharge rate of the experiment closely.
So, if it took 10 hours to discharge through my pulse circuit, I adjusted the value of the potentiometer to discharge in that time frame and ran the charge/discharge 3 times after these adjustments to get an average.
I used the same procedure (dumping to a load) to measure the power in the LA charging battery.
If I remember correctly, the output over input (efficiency or COP or whatever one wants to call it) was somewhere around 85%. Lots of time was devoted to testing.

I think I’ve wasted enough of my time on this subject. I have proven to myself that there is no excess energy in a recoil pulse (with or without magnets present). I haven’t tried the spark energy such as the one used in E.V. Gray and Tesla setup. Maybe something there. I don’t know.
The reason for my post was not to discourage others from pursuing this field. Experimentation is THE ONLY way to learn about this fascinating phenomena. Just don’t expect miracles if you are looking for excess energy using coils and pulsing schemes.

I am comfortable my assessments were correct and if anyone doesn’t believe me, they can try it for themselves. If it works for them, good for them and I hope they will share it with others transparently.
You have a good setup going with this forum and my hats off to you. As long as you allow both sides to be heard, you have a winner. Just don’t let wishful thinking get the better of your judgement.
I have another project going that has nothing to do with free energy and I like to devote my time to that instead of posting.
So longâ€Ã,¦

Quote from: hartiberlin on September 19, 2008, 06:59:27 PM
@zpfe,
can you show a few youtube videos of your devices and show how you measured them ?

Regards, Stefan.

YouTube videos usually show little, and what is shown is shown badly.
What is helpful would be a clear documented circuit diagram.
Paul.

Hi ZPFE,
many thanks for your additional informations,
BUT it does not help,
if you just state these results over here just with words.

To learn and progress we need real documentations, also of FAILURES.

So it is very important to exactly document , what works and what does not work...!

We will never know, what exactly you tried and how you exactly tried it,
so maybe you did something wrong or other than the original inventor...

This is why I always ask to document the results in very detailed videos,
so you can later look it up yourself to see, what you have done.

This is the advantage of youtube or other videos.
It can document it very precise if you record it in
a good way and also explain via voice, what you are just doing...


2.Yes, I agree, you should have tested spark systems
as there is a different component coming into play, the
oxidation and electron clustering at the contact points,
which will give you free electrons into the circuit and
thus recharge up your batteries.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: Paul-R on September 21, 2008, 09:39:07 AM
YouTube videos usually show little, and what is shown is shown badly.
What is helpful would be a clear documented circuit diagram.
Paul.

Surely there are many crap videos cheaply produced with crappy
cameras or shaking hand motions.

So, use a tripod and a a well prepared video production for this.

There are many great people out there that use Youtube the right
way and one can learn from every video they are doing.

So it only depends on your skills to do this...

@zpfe

did you also test NiMh or lead acid batteries ?

It also depends much on the battery type as not every
battery type takes these RF back spikes equally to get recharged..

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on September 21, 2008, 10:33:22 AM
Surely there are many crap videos cheaply produced with crappy
cameras or shaking hand motions.
So, use a tripod and a a well prepared video production for this.

Yes, and it will be the upwards of 5MB.

A simple circuit diagram will probably tell more and be about 50KB

Surely circuit digrams should be included in the video or posted additionally.
But a video can show much more how he has doing it and what was going on.

It is needed for exact documentation.

So maybe all these machines are bunk. Not surprising, considering each has their own "pet" theory of physics that would have to be true for the device to work and all these "pet" theories are mutually contradictory -- while the Universe knows only one physics. However, what I'm wondering is this: what happens if one were to bring real science to bear on trying to discover whether or not a real source of "free" energy (actually, more like a source of energy that is not any of the "conventional" types, e.g. fossil fuels, nuclear, solar, wind, etc.) actually exists or not? Has anyone given a serious and dedicated scientific effort with real scientific knowledge and methods to once and for all answer this?

(This is for "zpfe", by the way.)

Quote from: mike3 on September 24, 2008, 05:56:06 PM
So maybe all these machines are bunk. Not surprising, considering each has their own "pet" theory of physics that would have to be true for the device to work and all these "pet" theories are mutually contradictory -- while the Universe knows only one physics. However, what I'm wondering is this: what happens if one were to bring real science to bear on trying to discover whether or not a real source of "free" energy (actually, more like a source of energy that is not any of the "conventional" types, e.g. fossil fuels, nuclear, solar, wind, etc.) actually exists or not? Has anyone given a serious and dedicated scientific effort with real scientific knowledge and methods to once and for all answer this?

(This is for "zpfe", by the way.)

Normal physics and science can't even explain half of the experienced phenomans that happens today. And when they can't explain it, they pretend it doesn't exist. That normal procedure. And if that won't work , and the practical exeriments that are done seems to convincing they just call the scientist or inventor who has discovered the new effects for a crank. Its that easy. And then they have ruined his life, as a credible scientist at least. And these reactions and "procedures" have been with us since the birth of science.
What's the reason to this then? Is it a huge conspiracy? No, its just plain ego, nothing more and nothing less...

Normal physics, as you call it, does explain more than "half" of experienced phenomena. Tell me some examples of these phenomena that "normal" physics "doesn't" explain. Stuff like the so-called "dark matter"? Well guess what! Scientists ADMIT "normal" physics does not explain it! That's why it's called a "mystery"!

"Zpfe" spent lots of time testing these machines using honest and rigorous methods and found them not to work. That's because he used real scientific methods designed to minimize the possibility of false results.

Quote from: mike3 on September 25, 2008, 02:52:19 PM
Normal physics, as you call it, does explain more than "half" of experienced phenomena. Tell me some examples of these phenomena that "normal" physics "doesn't" explain. Stuff like the so-called "dark matter"? Well guess what! Scientists ADMIT "normal" physics does not explain it! That's why it's called a "mystery"!

"Zpfe" spent lots of time testing these machines using honest and rigorous methods and found them not to work. That's because he used real scientific methods designed to minimize the possibility of false results.

If he hopes for some magical results suddenly giving him free energy forever thats being a little optimistic.
Bedini has done alot of buliding and thinking on his own, but the main ideas behind his machines is based on previous inventors and researchers like Nikola Tesla and Edwin Gray, to name a few. Even if he has done alot of work, its basically telling the world again about these discoveries, and what the implementation of these into our modern technology could do to change our world forever.
I'd wish someone could actually invite bedini to write in this or another tread about his invention and why it works, and mabye he could even have given us a video of it, demonstrating its ability to power more than what was presumably put into it. What we have now around the world for the most part is induvidual people who tries to replicate it as best they can, but if Bedini could give a real clear demonstration of it working then mabye the sceptics could begin to shut up.

I know, still all of this (and most on overnuity too) is only a bunch of words, they don't prove much, but they can help.
We can hope that mabye bedini has the time to respond to my wish, as I'm sure it would have strengthen his view.

The point is that if the device works as claimed you should be able to detect the greater energy using genuine scientific method. In addition, you should be able to plug the out to the in and get it to accelerate itself, or at the very least keep on going and not slow down like what happens when you have a wheel and give it a push with your hands.

Quote from: mike3 on September 26, 2008, 03:30:30 AM
The point is that if the device works as claimed you should be able to detect the greater energy using genuine scientific method. In addition, you should be able to plug the out to the in and get it to accelerate itself, or at the very least keep on going and not slow down like what happens when you have a wheel and give it a push with your hands.

The point is Mike, the machine is not OU! I've already explained this to you in your own thread.I mean how can a transistor, a coil and a few other bits and bobs be OU. Any EE knows that, so why keep dwelling on this OU theme. Even Bedini stresses that his machines are not OU!

Hoppy

Guys , you  need to empty your glass before u can get more.. some of you  went to college and invested thousends of hours studying and experimenting so i understand where you come from.. but just consider that maybe just maybe all that is taught at school not all true maybe some one wants to lead you in the wrong way... maybe he is not telling all he knows  or he complicates thing in order for you to spend a life time trying to to find something or explore things but you got the wrong basic building blocks so the puzzle will never reveal itself...
you've got lost... , all this EE stuff some one wrote it that doesnt mean it is the only truth it is just that guys prespective point of view.
you need to find your point of view and think from the  start like you dont know anything, theres is alot more out there that isnt in any book ...
i dont know everything but i know that i dont know... get it? the problem with scientist is that they are sure they know exactly whats going on
and thats their biggest illusion , its not their fault , they were good boys and went to school and listened and learned and when they finished they were sure they got all the tools and all the facts , no one told them maybe or perhapes what you learned is true , so they are sure they are true
and their doomed because of their believes  to continue looking for answers but they will hit a wall that they will never be able to pass...

Quote from: Hoppy on October 01, 2008, 04:47:09 PM
The point is Mike, the machine is not OU! I've already explained this to you in your own thread.I mean how can a transistor, a coil and a few other bits and bobs be OU. Any EE knows that, so why keep dwelling on this OU theme. Even Bedini stresses that his machines are not OU!

Hoppy

So then there's really no point but just fun, right? Because if it's not over-unity why does everyone like to claim it's "free energy" or whatever?

Quote from: mike3 on October 01, 2008, 08:14:35 PM
So then there's really no point but just fun, right? Because if it's not over-unity why does everyone like to claim it's "free energy" or whatever?

LOL - The penny's dropping then Mike!

Simply because they believe or have been led to believe it is!!!

As I said in the other thread, just relax a bit and enjoy building your first spinning wheel.

Hoppy

This is not a John Peters circuit, This is a test circuit for the patent to prove the device worked. This circuit is sitting in my lab at this very moment. The battery you're looking at is a 1951 Willard battery so where is John Peters Circuit to prove this is his.
John Bedini

Quote from: hartiberlin on June 22, 2007, 06:23:58 PM
Hi All,
here is a picture and a circuit diagram from John Peters,
who has designed a solid state Bedini Charger.
He says:


"In this solidstate circuit the radiant energy apears when charging the first capacitor bank, and after the big capacitor discharge to the battery, with the right timing pulses. That circuit consume miliAmps, the first blue capacitors are charged with only one wire from the transformer secondary and two diodes. No current from the secondary."

Hi a guy told me for a solid state Bedini just replace the 1n4001 with a 10K resistor and add a 20k resistor between base and collector.
Is this true?
Thanks

Hi guys I tried this and it really works. It oscillates without a rotor.

Quote from: guruji on March 28, 2010, 07:38:22 AM
Hi guys I tried this and it really works. It oscillates without a rotor.

Confirmed.  I have just tried this and it works beautifully.  If I had to estimate its charging at least 5 times faster than with the rotor and without all the tweaking hassle.

Here's the differences in my setup compared to the Bedini's SSG:
1. The coil I use is 800 turns but the same #23/#26 bifilar
2. I am using 16v primary (18v actually measured) from an adapter since I didn't want to keep draining batteries while I tried to get this up and running
3. I have a 5k pot next to the 100ohm resistor, but its set to ~1 ohm atm resulting in a 550ma draw.  If I bump it up pretty high I can get the amp draw down to 150ma but it seems to charge a little slower.  I'm guessing tweaking can be done here for optimum charging vs. amp draw but after working on this for about a week straight (all day today) plus having a cold atm I need a break!

I am thinking that if I used multiple coils in the same way the ssg can be scaled up then I could charge faster?
All I need to do now is wind more coils unless someone says otherwise

What exactly "it works" means in this case?

Quote from: guruji on March 26, 2010, 04:52:34 PM
Hi a guy told me for a  Bedini just replace the 1n4001 with a 10K resistor and add a 20k resistor between base and collector.
Is this true?
Thanks

I tried the above, which I took to mean, modifying a Bedini SSG circuit as stated above and remove the rotor component.
When this is done, the charging battery charges up without the need for the rotor to be present.
This "works" for me, as in, the battery charges (much better I might add) when the circuit is closed

Hi niofox I had done this on a double coil bedini and my problem is that one of my coils was winded with a new bold and it became magnetized. So now it cannot handle certain high oscillations.
Maybe I have to wind it again :(
Ok I am glad that worked for you too.
Thanks

Hi guruji,
How long did it take to magnetize?
What was your core made of?

Right now I'm using copper-coated welding rods that are pretty much the same as what was recommended for the ssg.
Before I took out the rotor there were times when I would leave it running overnight only to find the rotor stopped because the coil moved closer and stuck to one of the magnets.  This happened a number of nights and yet the core did not become useless nor did it seem to degrade in performance as far as I can tell.

I would be very interested in finding out if this high oscillation might have a greater magnetization effect

Thanks the heads up!

Quote from: niofox on April 19, 2010, 07:46:47 AM
Hi guruji,
A did it take to magnetize?
What was your core made of?

Right now I'm using copper-coated welding rods that are pretty much the same as what was recommended for the ssg.
Before I took out the rotor there were times when I would leave it running overnight only to find the rotor stopped because the coil moved closer and stuck to one of the magnets.  This happened a number of nights and yet the core did not become useless nor did it seem to degrade in performance as far as I can tell.

I would be very interested in finding out if this high oscillation might have a greater magnetization effect

Thanks the heads up!

Hi Niofox if you did many rods of soft iron don't worry it would not magnetize. There are guys who did nothing for core just left an empty spool and found it better.
An idea came to my mind to change polarity of coils;now it doesn't effect knowing the fact it's without rotor :)
Yes if it's in high oscillation it would magnetize a metal rod faster I believe.
Ok lets keep charging
Thanks

I have removed my core and restarted the charger.
It still works, battery is charging

I will monitor it for a while to see if it is better, but it definitely seems to be running at least as well just looking at the voltage rise over a few minutes
More on that in a few hours

Hi Guys,

Do you mean that substituting the 1N4001 (transistor base-ground diode) with a 10K resistor and adding a 20k resistor between base and collector could 'work' (= self oscillate and charge another battery) in a 'standard' SSG having his rotor removed???

Or, I'm I missing something??? Core removed?

I have to try it on....

Very Best

eh bien - je m'triste!   ;D

you didn't read my email, Avril 04?

"it's very interesting - and of course the JT   CCT     is more or less
the basic Bedini cct (eg. in SG motor & SolidState, etc) although in SSG of
course the timing comes from the wheel not from Xfr feedback"

it's ok - c'est de la gnognotte!!!   (sniff!)   ;)

Quote from: NerzhDishual link=topic=2586.msg238252#msg238252 =1271713664
Hi ,

Do you mean that substituting the 1N4001 (transistor base-ground diode) with a 10K resistor and adding a 20k resistor between base and collector could 'work' (= self oscillate and charge another battery) in a 'standard' SSG having his rotor removed???

Or, I'm I missing something??? Core removed?

I have to try it on....

Very Best

Yes it charges the battery in my own experiment, and no longer need a core for the coil either (I am guessing because there are no more magnets to focus the magnetic field on without the rotor).

I have run tests for a few hours now and it seems that without the core it charges only as well as with.  In other words the core doesn't affect charging rate or amp draw as far as I can tell.  I have yet to do heavily controlled testing on this.
I am going to try switching back to a 12v dc adapter (from the 16v dc I am using now) to see how it works.
Eventually I will switch back to using batteries as my primary source when I get this fine tuned

Ok so.  After spending the last whatever hours testing various things here are the results:
12v Adapter (reads 11v when charging) - Very Slow charging / Coil gets slightly warm to touch
16v Adapter (reads 18v when charging) - Fast charging / Coil gets warm to touch
30v Adapter (reads 31v when charging) - Very Fast charging / Coil gets hot to touch

All test were done with 400 ohms on the trigger circuit (where the pot + 100 ohm resistor sit) as this seems to be the optimum charging tweaking for my setup

I would love to leave the 30v adapter to charge my batteries but the amp draw is double that of the 16v adapter which makes it 4x the wattage which is bad for COP.  On the other hand, conditioning the batteries with it could be a very quick job

I am worried about the coil temperature though
Only 30 minutes and the coil became untouchable for longer than 5 seconds with my finger tips
If I leave it longer I think it will get even hotter.  As this coil was hard to come by and I won't be able to get another one for about a month (shipping to my country is costly so I choose slower methods) I think I will stick with the 16v adapter.

When I get 2 of my 12v batteries charged sufficiently I will hook them up in series and see how a 24v setup charges :)

Quote from: niofox on April 19, 2010, 10:14:16 PM
Ok so.  After spending the last whatever hours testing various things here are the results:
12v Adapter (reads 11v when charging) - Very Slow charging / A gets slightly warm to touch
16v Adapter (reads 18v when charging) - Fast charging / Coil gets warm to touch
30v Adapter (reads 31v when charging) - Very Fast charging / Coil gets hot to touch

All test were done with 400 ohms on the trigger circuit (where the pot + 100 ohm resistor sit) as this seems to be the optimum charging tweaking for my setup

I would love to leave the 30v adapter to charge my batteries but the amp draw is double that of the 16v adapter which makes it 4x the wattage which is bad for COP.  On the other hand, conditioning the batteries with it could be a very quick job

I am worried about the coil temperature though
Only 30 minutes and the coil became untouchable for longer than 5 A with my finger tips
If I leave it longer I think it will get even hotter.  As this coil was hard to come by and I won't be able to get another one for about a month (shipping to my country is costly so I choose slower methods) I think I will stick with the 16v adapter.

When I get 2 of my 12v batteries charged sufficiently I will hook them up in series and see how a 24v setup charges :)

Hi niofox very interesting results. It seems that not to give too much voltage or you're risking of burning the coil.
Ok thanks yes Nerzdishhual just putting two resitors and taking off the 1n4001. It works.
Thannks

Hi Sandy,

Yes, I did read your April 4Th email!
No, it was not "de la gnognotte" (a load of rubbish).
Actually, none of your email are gnognotte.
Your Points are never null... ;D

Yes, I also think that all theses CCTs (Bedini, JT) are, more or less the same stuff.

My question was to get a confirmation that a slightly modified SSG circuit (with no rotor!) could "work" (charge another bat).

------------------------------------------
BTW: Thanks to Niofox for all these informative feebacks.
If, whitout the core, it charges as well than with, I'm very fortunate because all my cores are glued! :P
So, I will not have to dismantle one.
------------------------------------------

As my understanding of electronic is weak, it takes me a lot of time to catch something....

For example, I have just figured out that the attached CCT (from http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepcoil.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepcoil.htm)) is actually a kinda JT.

I have 'rewritten' this "twisted CCT".
In a classic JT the transistor is used 'common emitter' way (without emitter resistor).
JLN used a it 'common collector' way (just to make it simpler?)

So, next experiments:
1) Modified SSG.
2) Using A JT with 2 (one farad-5 Vols caps) and see I what is going on...

Very Best and thanks again to Niofox (and to Guruji BTW).

hey Nerzh

oops, my joke backfired - you're very kind to take my ramblings seriously!

you're certainly a fearless and confident experimenter: "all [your] cores are glued!"

i use electric insulating tape on mine... what does that say about me?!?  ;o)


actually, i think the JLN cct you show is maybe not so much like a JT as it first seems:

the JT, as you say, is usually common emitter - this is a voltage amplifier, it takes a small signal at input (base) and produces a large signal at output (collector load) - but it is not the best way to supply power here, using a transistor

JLN's TEP here, again as you say, is common collector, and this is very good at supplying power - however, it doesn't provide voltage gain

so i think JLN is using this cct just as a power switch - the transistor Q1 will be biased 'on' by R1 until current rises in L2, mirrored in L1, pulsing C1 negatively to switch Q1 off, then C1 charges up again via R1, allowing R1 to turn Q1 on again, etc

the only thing is, it looks to me like L1 is connected with reversed polarity from what it would need to work correctly (?!)

so - pretty much a switched-charge cct, pumping charge from C1 to C2

(i think you did a very successful experiment showing the resulting charge anomaly with an arrangement like this?)

i agree that the Xfr is used in a similar way to the JT, for timing: when the Tr output is 'on' the Tr input gets turned 'off', and vice versa

i checked out your JT page (mentioned above) - a good coverage of Gadgetmall's claims, i think

i look forward to seeing some more info about your own variations on the JT circuit

i seem to remember that Gadget said that the Bcap had a 'minimum' voltage of around 0.5V (0.544V?), in which case it stores slightly less than the energy for 2.6V; ie, (2.6v - 0.544v) gives approx 2100 Joules on a 650F Bcap

all the best
sandy

Hello Bass Player,

No, your joke did not backfired! I was only pretending to take your rambling seriously. So, it was my joke which backfired. Was it not? ;D ;D
So, I am not so kind....

Yes, I glued the core of my SSG coils and I also used a hammer to push the welding rods in it...Sure! >:(

Thanks for your explanations.
I have still not fully understood the "common collector" transistor, and I do not speak about the "common base" one!. It will be for my second year course, due to my mind slowness. :P

yes, I did reproduce this JLN CCT with positive results. Perhaps, I made a convenient mistake while wiring the coil?

Picture attached of his "rewritten" CCT.

Yes, the Gadgetmail's 650 cap has a minimum voltage of 0.5 volts.

I tried , this afternoon to charge a 1 farad 5 volts cap (see picture) with my double coil JT. It has also a slightly minimum voltage but if your short it for a while it goes to about zero.

The results:
With the cap across L3 (after the diode).
The 3 leds are only dimming.
Input amp consumption: 8 ma.
After 60 second I got a voltage of 0.475 volts across the cap.

With the cap across L2 (after a diode):
The 2 Leds are OK.
Input amp consumption about 11/12 ma.
After 60 second I got a voltage of 0.400 volts across the cap.

So, it looks like the 5 volts caps likes the 12 volts spikes. You can also see something similar in a SSG.

Very Best

Ok I found something I think is very interesting and may take alot of hassle out of coil winding.
I went to the store today and got them to wind me a bifilar coil the same length as my original that I used for all the above testing.
The difference is, I told them not to wind it onto anything.  So it ended up looking like that coil you would find around a crt screen tube if you opened it up.  For those who don't know, this would be like the window motor coils that Bedini uses in shape.  I figured my charging effect would be crap on this since its not tightly wound, or very close together.
So then comes my surprise when it ends up charging just as well if not better (its hard to tell just staring at voltage changes)

I will now construct another duplicate solid state bedini ssg circuit and try to drain both of my almost identical ups batteries then see which one charges faster.  For a more accurate assessment I will then drain them again and swap them in the chargers to see if one of the batteries may just be better conditioned or something.

Might not get all this done till tomorrow night though.  Day job and all

Ok guys, I got a lil crazy this morning and added in a my 2nd  as shown in the attached diagram (not mine, can't remember who, credit to them all the same for drawing it)

Of course, the same solid state modifications mentioned earlier were done with the duplicate coil circuit (in red)
Initial results of the testing with this setup are very interesting.  Either my charging rate when through the roof with the radiant spikes, or I've introduced some other problem I don't quite understand.

Here's what's happening:
1 coil - coil gets hot to touch (as mentioned above), voltage on the 30v adapter I'm using reads 28v, amp draw is 500ma
2 coil - coils don't get nearly as hot, voltage on 30v adapter hits 24v, amp draw is 900ma
The adapter is rated at 30v / 500ma so its understandable why the voltage drops so bad i think

UPS Battery Test (12v / 7.2 amp hour)
Testing time (about 10 to 20 minutes)
1 coil - voltage shoots up then levels out and trickles up .01 at a time steadily
2 coil - voltage shoots up way more, levels out and trickles faster by far, then hits a limit and seems to stop going up
In fact, at one point it dipped down about 0.1v then tried to rise once more but didn't seem to be going anywhere

Car Battery 1 Test (12v / 50 amp hour)
Testing time (~10 minutes)
1 coil - voltage shoots up massively then levels out and trickles up .01 at a time steadily but seems to cap at a certain point
2 coil - voltage shoots up way more than 1 coil, levels out and trickles faster by far, then caps out at a higher point than 1 coil
When the charger is turned off, the battery always comes back to rest around 10.5 ~ 10.7 volts.  I suspect this one has a couple bad cells in it or something.  Moving on to my 2nd car battery

Car Battery 2 Test (12v / 50 amp hour)
Testing time (~30 minutes so far)
1 coil - voltage shoots up massively then levels out and trickles up .01 at a time steadily (I've never left it long enough to see if it would cap out)
2 coil - voltage shoots up way more than 1 coil, levels out and trickles faster by far at first, levels out more and trickles like 1 coil
Currently its reading 12.05v as I type this.  I will leave it running while I go to work and see what I have when I get back

Oh, interesting point on this battery.  I poured out the liquid inside (as much as I could get out) and replaced it with filtered water (one of those fancy drinking water filters).  When I read the voltage it was 8.12v right after I did that.  Before that it seemed to have a similar problem to the battery above, although it had a higher resting voltage ... like 11.5 or so.  Anyway, I charged it on 1 coil for ~8 hours and it came to rest at 11.56v when I stopped it (even though it was still trickling nicely)
So it seems that changing the electrolyte is it?  Changing the stuff in side to plain water helped recover what was once a reject battery I got free from a car shop.  I will try this changing process with my 1st battery this evening and see if it helps that one

Hi Nerzdishual I am like you in electronics. I learned with expierience by myself. I want to tell you regarding the gadgetmall circuit that Gadget used to do a pot with a ceramic cap to a resistor on the base of the transistor. He used to say to find resonance with the resistor. When this is found current drops while leds get brighter. I tried this but still experimenting to find resonance.
Thanks for sharing those schematics.

Crap.  My 30v adapter melted while I was at work.  I think it might have been pretty early on since the resting voltage of my car battery was 11.64v when I got home.  8 hours wasted :(

The moral of this story I suppose is - don't push an adapter further than its rated to go

Hi Niofox I did it on a multicoil these two resistors just one the drive transistor only and it worked.
Thanks

Quote from: guruji on April 23, 2010, 03:28:53 PM
Hi Niofox I did it on a multicoil these two  just one the drive  only and it worked.
Thanks

Can you make a diagram for it?  I will try to make one for my setup this evening

Quote from: niofox on April 23, 2010, 03:37:28 PM
Can you make a diagram for it?  I will try to make one for my setup this evening

Hi Niofox here it is.

Here's my current setup (adding more coils later)

Hi Niofox you don't need more resistors for slave coils. You only have to put on the drive coil in my opinion. On mine it worked.
Just do like my setup if yours did not work.
Enjoy

Quote from: guruji on April 25, 2010, 02:13:26 PM
Hi Niofox you don't need more  for slave . You only have to put on the drive coil in my opinion. On mine it worked.
Just do like my setup if yours did not work.
Enjoy

Oh mine is working wonderfully, I've been charging/conditioning batteries all week
Looking at your diagram though, I'd like to know if using the diode instead of a resistor on the slave coils is even needed?  It is cheaper to use a resistor.  But if the diode works better that would be good.  I will try taking out the extra 20k resistor

Quote from: niofox on April 25, 2010, 02:39:25 PM
Oh mine is working wonderfully, I've been charging/conditioning batteries all week
Looking at your diagram though, I'd like to know if using the diode instead of a resistor on the slave coils is even needed?  It is cheaper to use a resistor.  But if the diode works better that would be good.  I will try taking out the extra 20k resistor

It's ok then do it as you like but the diode was there.
Ok bye

Are you guys using any external magnet to your setups?

Quote from: teslaalset on April 26, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
Are you guys using any external  to your setups?

No magnets

Quote from: guruji on April 25, 2010, 03:03:28 PM
It's ok then do it as you like but the diode was there.
Ok bye

I am definitely going to try your setup and learn from it guruji.  Thank you for the diagram
In my current setup with 2 coils, my 2nd transistor is getting warm while the first is not, I am thinking that your setup may solve this

Ok so I've been messing with various configurations for this and have had to revise some earlier observations.
For example:  Throwing out the battery fluid and refilling with water actually made it worse after all, so no magic there like I was reading somewhere else.  (Tried this for 2 different batteries, same result)  However.  It looks like when you get your battery charged to a certain point and it looks like its really slowing down, shaking it up a bit seems to help it move on quicker.  The voltage will dip a bit, but then it'll run past its previous point pretty quick.

Using multiple coils is tricky.  Each variation I tried always uses about twice as much power from your input source, but doesn't seem to have the same effect on charging rate, possibly because I'm wasn't using the shaking method mentioned above.  Kinda hard to do that while you're asleep >.>

If I was still using a rotor, it might actually charge better if I put the battery on the same surface with it so the vibrations keep the fluid shaken up.

From what I understand of how batteries work, when you put a load on it, or try to charge it, the plate will become charged one way.  Then when you stop, it has a "relaxation time".  So my theory is, you could kind of force the relaxation while charging by shaking up the solution.

If I'm am spouting a load of rubbish someone please rescue me from my noobdom!  All I know is self-taught so any and all corrections are welcome!

-= Coil Configuration Observations =-

So currently I am not using the 20k resistor, or the 10k resistor, or a diode to bridge any parts of the MJL21194 transistor
I'm using 1 coil, 1/2 as large as the coils in my 2 coil setup.  It seems to charge alot better than the larger single coil.
So I thought hey, leme make a really small coil.  I pulled my largest coil that failed horrible (charged very poorly) and took about 20 winds off it.  The geometry is the same as my current coil.  When I tried this much smaller coil setup the amp draw was much higher, the charging seems to be increased as well (couldn't do long-term testing) but the transistor got hot real fast.  The coil itself didn't get hot at all.  Not sure if its because I didn't leave it long enough or what but ... yea.  I figure I'll have to try parallel multiple transistors to really test that out.  As soon as I learn how to hook that up I'll give it a go.

-= Battery Charging Observations =-

Ok so I'm seeing just as I have read around the internet, that as you charge batteries with this system they reach a certain point where the voltage doesn't increase anymore.  I have observed this, and in addition, I've seen the voltage go back down a bit if its left longer (I usually switch the charger off at this point)
The last post I made was on forced relaxation by shaking.  Now while this had a short-term effect I'm observing a bit better effect if you leave the battery to relax by itself with the charger disconnected (actually I switch to charging another battery).  Just a 30 minute rest got the voltage maximum up another .04 rather than .01 ~ .02 from the shaking method.  So I'm going to keep alternating batteries and see how high I can get them without discharging then at all

Hi Niofox you should read Bedini C20 file about charging. Bedini says that one should charge and make it rest then continue until it reaches 15v. This should keep the batteries charged for long again as new.
Try to find that file it's very interesting it's somewhere in this forum.
Bye bye.

Quote from: guruji on May 03, 2010, 02:06:56 PM
Hi Niofox you should read Bedini C20 file about charging. Bedini says that one should charge and make it rest then continue until it reaches 15v. This should keep the batteries charged for long again as new.
Try to find that file it's very interesting it's somewhere in this forum.
Bye bye.

Thank you so much for this information.  I have found an article when I ran a search based on your comment: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Bedini%20Monopole%203%20Group%20Experiment.pdf
As well as a number of other links that I will investigate

Quote from: niofox on May 03, 2010, 02:27:19 PM
Thank you so much for this information.  I have found an article when I ran a search based on your comment: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Bedini%20Monopole%203%20Group%20Experiment.pdf
As well as a number of other links that I will investigate

Hi Niofox,

Have been watching this thread for some time with interest. I thought I'd nip in here just to explain my present experiment. I'm using 4x BSP452 mosfet high side switch devices with the option to parallel up. My supply source is a variable regulated bench supply set at 12 volts. The outputs are all commoned and connect to one side of a reclaimed power supply choke (2R2 DC impedance_ laminated core) inductance not known. The remaining leg of the choke goes to common -ve or ground of supply. The mosfet is pulsed via a common 555 astable circuit running at 1.7KHz @ 51% mark_space ratio. The positive of the charge battery is connected to the common -ve line, while the negative of the charge battery is connected via the anode of a UF5408  to the switched side of the choke. This arrangement works extremely well on Nicad's and 12volt Lead Acid. Now... I have broken all the rules for charging these while experimenting on various circuits so I recon I have probably damaged my present 12 volt cell! However the results can vary somewhat, I had to discharge several times over until a decent recharge voltage could be held... although the present one keeps dropping to rest at 10.5v
Nicad cells (9volt PP3 type) I have found seem to be critical to both frequency and mark/space to find the best/quickest charging rate. Again for me... 1.7KHz seems to give the best results. Experiments on going

Here's the setup I now use (simplest is best I always say) tweaked at 330ohms (only cuz I don't have a large selection to find tune more - I need it around 366 or something).
Currently I only have 1 bifilar coil (core doesn't make any difference as far as I can tell) unlike that image which shows a scaled up design.

Not sure if I need to scale much further for the small number of batteries I'm charging though.  I switched the charging battery for a 400v/220uf cap and gave it a go to get an idea of the kind of potentials I am getting here.  The cap got up to ~250v then dipped to 220 sharply (like almost instantly to the point where I'm not even sure 250 is the real peak) and started bleeding off before I turned off the charger.  This happened in about 2 to 3 seconds.  The neon light came on after 1 second or less.

Discharging the cap was fun ^.^ big big snap and spark.  I suspect I may be getting a higher potential than just 250v, alot higher.  The cap is swollen and I'm thinking it can't get to its original peak anymore.  I will try to get a larger/less damaged cap from an old crt and try this again.

-= More battery observations =-
So far I have been charging batteries in singles.  Getting to the cut off point is happening a lot faster than they relax now.  I will have to throw a 3rd battery into rotation or alternatively charge them in parallel again.  In light of the high potentials I found with the cap, I think parallel charging would be best.  Charging should be slow enough that the heavier ions have time to move within chemical solution and take longer to get to the cut off

Another thing is ... batteries have their own personalities man.  I have 4 car batteries and each one is different in its own way.
#1  Rests at 12.10, charges to 14.5, slowly coming back to rest at a higher 12
#2 Rests at 10.1, charges to 15.x (it jumps around up there) then comes quickly back to rest around 10.x (I changed the water on this)
#3 Rests at 10.5, charges to 12.x then comes back to 10.5 (also changed the water on this one.  I think they are ruined for good)
#4 Rests at 12.12, charges to 12.5, slowly coming back to rest at 12.12 (This is the most normal one out of the bunch, I call him bob ... j/k)

I am rotating #1 and #4 currently
I had a 5th but I gave it to a friend to test in his car after I restored it from ~6.75v or so to a resting ~12.12v over the weekend

More to come later!

Hi folks, Hi niofox, it looks like in the circuit you posted that its missing a resistor between the collector and base, my circuit has a 15kohm though usually a 20k is used. Though if your getting this circuit to oscillate without it, i sure wonder how.
peace love light
Tyson

@ niofox:
   On the part where you "replaced the water" in two of your batteries, did you use just water or 10% sulfuric acid mix?  When you buy a new battery, it has a 10% mix in it. And where ever you put the old mix at, you had better flush it good and maybe even add a bit of baking soda to neutralize  it.

thay

Quote from: Thaelin on May 04, 2010, 01:54:33 PM
@ niofox:
   On the part where you "replaced the " in two of your batteries, did you use just water or 10% sulfuric  mix?  When you buy a new battery, it has a 10% mix in it. And where ever you put the old mix at, you had better flush it good and maybe even add a bit of baking soda to neutralize  it.

thay

No I just put it some filtered drinking water.  The first battery I only dumped out about 1/2 of what was in there, the 2nd I dumped it all.  In both cases it doesn't seem to have helped, but actually made matters worse.

The only reason I tried it was
1: I read on the forum somewhere that someone did this and claimed it made it better
2: The 1st battery I tried it with rested at 10v so it had problems and that was just a last resort before I declared it useless.  The 2nd battery rested around 11.25 or so no matter how many times I ran it through the charger so I tried it with that one too

About the baking soda thing ... I didn't know about that until a friend told me the other day >.>
Not even weeds grow in the patch I threw the stuff onto anymore.  They seem to be creeping back in slowly ... but its kinda like if you used some REALLY strong weed killer.  I wonder if they use acid in those things?

Hi Niofox how do you drain the batteries cause it's a bit risky to health? You have a type of pipet or something to be safe?
Thanks

Quote from: guruji link=topic=2586.msg240289#msg240289 =1272998952
Hi Niofox how do you drain the batteries cause it's a bit risky to ? You have a type of pipet or something to be safe?
Thanks

Nah I had no idea the dangers involved and just emptied it onto a spot on my lawn.  Don't worry though, I will not be throwing anything out of a battery again in that manner.  I've since learned to use a dish with baking soda.  I think if I ever actually do try it again (doubt I will) I'd probably keep the resulting mess in a bottle somewhere as a souvenir or something.

Quote from: SkyWatcher123 on May 04, 2010, 12:25:32 AM
Hi folks, Hi niofox, it looks like in the circuit you posted that its missing a resistor between the collector and base, my circuit has a 15kohm though usually a 20k is used. Though if your getting this circuit to oscillate without it, i sure wonder how.
peace love light
Tyson

Unless my project board has something shorted, yes I am running solid-state without the resistor between the collector and base
There's only one difference I've noticed with this configuration:  If you somehow stop the self-oscillation without disconnecting anything ... like using a pot and putting it too high or low, the self oscillation doesn't restart simply but putting back the pot to its working value.  You have to disconnect the input power, than reconnect it.  In my setup I have the -primary running through a simple switch.  So I have to flick it off, then back on to restart oscillation
The thing never stops under any other circumstance I've come across however.  So I just leave it tweaked at 320 ohms now (no pot) and in the whole week I have been testing this it has never stopped without my intervention

Also as you can see on the diagram, I have dispensed with the diode/resistor from the base to -primary.  I found that with the diode the charging process is reduced a tad, and with the 10k resistor there is no difference that I can see with my cheap multi-meters.  I found this particularly interesting and was thinking of see what the effect is in the original SSG setup with the rotor

Hi Niofox interesting about your modification. It would be good to try if you said it works too.
Thanks for sharing.

Unless the battery has been abused somehow, emptying the cells
contents make no sense. The sulfur comes out of solution in the
battery during discharge so you really should try to allign the ratio of
electrolyte to water concentration with the level of charge the battery
was at, at the time you emptied the contents. The law of conservation
of matter says you would only ever need to replace water which
evaporates or gets electrolysed out of the cells. Adding commericial
battery additives is the exception. I've heard of cleaning the battery,
off with, but not putting baking soda into a a/l battery.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Quote from: mscoffman on May 07, 2010, 02:57:40 PM
Unless the battery has been abused somehow, emptying the cells
contents make no sense. The sulfur comes out of solution in the
battery during discharge so you really should try to allign the ratio of
electrolyte to water concentration with the level of charge the battery
was at, at the time you emptied the contents.  of conservation
of matter says you would only ever need to replace water which
evaporates or gets electrolysed out of the cells. Adding commericial
battery additives is the exception. I've heard of  the battery,
off with, but not putting  into a a/l battery.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Apologies for the mis-communication.  I didn't mean adding baking soda to the battery, it was for neutrilizing the solution that was poured out so that when you throw it away it doesn't harm the surrounding environment.  Also, for safety reasons.  If you got some strong acid on yourself I was told that throwing on the baking soda and washing would be helpful

Hi niofox, thanks for the reply. I did try the circuit you posted and could not get it to oscillate, are you briefly connecting from collector to base to get it started or something similar, because i dont see what is biasing the transistor on. If you flip the switch as shown no current will flow through the primary because no base current is flowing. Would sure like to know how your getting it to oscillate, thanks.
peace love light
Tyson

Hi Niofox yes about that schematic I had printed it in the past from someone else. Does that mean that one has to put all coils on to one?. Or one bifilar and the secondaries as single coils?
Today I tried a bigger awg coil but could not oscillate with my setup  :-\
Ok thanks anyway.

Hmmm, it may be possible that my project board has something shorted that is making it work.  After I get done moving this weekend I will try to construct it without the project board to see if it works.

The coil I am using is a bifilar #23 + #26, 1/2lb total weight, 12"x6" oval (no spool).  Not sure about length or # of turns.  I put some tape on to keep it tightly together

I am using a switchable adapter as my input.  Its set at 15v but outputs 19v under load.  Rated at 2amps max
I have not tried using 2 batteries in series yet, but I don't think it would oscillate at 12v.  It seems like the initial switch on kicks it into oscillation

I am sorry I cannot test things now.  By Monday or so I should be settled in at my new place and will start on this then

That circuit is good for a certain lenght of coil I think. This new coil that I did was not oscillating but when I shortened it a little there's a hissing sound. So now I would do a lesser resistor than 10k and I think it would oscillate. Cross fingers.

Ok, I have tried with 12v source and it works.  But it charges faster with higher voltage (I use ~19v adapter)
I removed everything else from the project board I'm working with and check various points for shorts.  It all seems to be wired as shown in the attached diagram.

I tried using a 200v 440uf Cap in place of the charging battery to get an idea of how large the spikes are.  I had to add a 2nd one in series to get the total ~250v.  The size of the resistor I use determines the time it takes to charge the caps.  ~440 ohms was what I found to be a sweet spot. 
The input was measured at ~410ma x 19.1v = 7.831watts
Time to charge the caps to 250v was ~10seconds
1 to 2 seconds after charging begins the neon lights up due to resistance of the caps as they fill I'm guessing.  Unfortunately I cannot hook up the battery at the same time as the whole spike goes to that instead of the caps
I may try adding it in with a resistor but I think the neon will just take it as before instead :/

Hi Niofox interesting about that circuit. Now I am using Groungloop's circuit. It consumes more amps but charges faster.
Thanks

Quote from: guruji on May 21, 2010, 02:22:52 PM
Hi Niofox interesting about that circuit. Now I am using Groungloop's circuit. It consumes more amps but charges faster.
Thanks

Hi Guruji, can you give link or diagram?

@niofox;

I think he means the one with link starting here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9157.50

If you want to boost the charge voltage, what I would
do is extend the sense winding with more turns
leaving the base connection where it's at then
rectify.

---

You can't use wall adapters above their listing
current. Plus battery charging is somewhat unstable.
Batteries shouldn't heat up while outgassing
extensively, so I would not go to ever higher
charge power without limiting the voltage.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[A author=niofox link=topic=2586.msg242063#msg242063 date=1274468634]
Hi Guruji, can you give link or diagram?
[/quote]

Hi Niofox go to Groundloop diagram:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9157.30

Very interesting.  I am going to try that

Hi someone had post this battery swapper in the past but this I think needs a third battery no?
Anyone knows of a good battery swapper with least components?
The box down is a 555timer.
Thanks

Quote from: guruji on May 24, 2010, 07:07:54 AM
Hi someone had post this battery swapper in the past but this I think needs a third battery no?
Anyone knows of a good battery swapper with least components?
The box down is a 555timer.
Thanks

Hi Guruji,

The circuit is another switching circuit using the radiant back emf from the inductor to charge the battery. The 555 operates the relay with the opening and closing contact action performing the inductive switching. I have been experimenting with various radiant and cap charger circuits.

Quote from: crowclaw on May 24, 2010, 03:12:50 PM
Hi Guruji,

The circuit is another switching circuit using the radiant back A from the inductor to charge the battery. The 555 operates the relay with the opening and closing contact action performing the inductive switching. I have been experimenting with various radiant and cap charger circuits.

Hi Crowclaw yes it uses a relay but there has to be another battery for source yes?
Did you try this circuit?
Thanks

Quote from: guruji on May 24, 2010, 03:27:06 PM
Hi Crowclaw yes it uses a relay but there has to be another battery for source yes?
Did you try this circuit?
Thanks

Hi Guruji, The battery in the centre is the one being charged, the one to the right is the source battery.
Yes I have used this circuit, but I use electronic switching. The circuit I am currently using is of the same principle but uses MOSFET type high side switches to switch the inductor. I have also used other semiconductor devices, basically this type of circuit works very well and charges quite quickly from around 40Ma up to around 400Ma @ 12 volts upwards. You can experiment with various inductors from around  2 ohms upwards, I find mine work best at between 1Khz > 2Khz. If you want to charge 12 volt Nicads or Lead Acid types charge at around 14 volts. You will have to continually charge and discharge many times to condition your cells. Kind Regards

Quote from: crowclaw on May 25, 2010, 02:19:09 AM
Hi Guruji, The battery in the centre is the one being charged, the one to the right is the source battery.
Yes I have used this A, but I use electronic switching. The circuit I am currently using is of the same principle but uses MOSFET type high side switches to switch the inductor. I have also used other semiconductor devices, basically this type of circuit works very well and charges quite quickly from around 40Ma up to around 400Ma @ 12 volts upwards. You can experiment with various inductors from around  2 ohms upwards, I find mine work best at between 1Khz > 2Khz. If you want to charge 12 volt Nicads or Lead Acid types charge at around 14 volts. You will have to continually charge and discharge many times to condition your cells. Kind Regards

Hi crowclaw thanks for response but does this circuit charge both batteries?
I am using Groundloop circuit right now and have an 8pin DPDT relay. I don't know how to hook a swapper to it any help please?
Thanks

Quote from: crowclaw on May 25, 2010, 02:19:09 AM
Hi Guruji, The battery in the centre is the one being charged, the one to the right is the source battery.
Yes I have used this circuit, but I use  switching. The circuit I am currently using is of the same principle but uses MOSFET type high side switches to switch the inductor. I have also used other semiconductor devices, basically this type of circuit works very well and charges quite quickly from around 40Ma up to around 400Ma @ 12 volts upwards. You can experiment with various inductors from around  2 ohms upwards, I find mine work best at between 1Khz > 2Khz. If you want to charge 12 volt Nicads or Lead Acid types charge at around 14 volts. You will have to continually charge and discharge many times to condition your cells. Kind

@Crowclaw
Would it be possible to provide a diagram of the methods you prefer?  I would like to try a switching circuit for my charger setup but I haven't found a working diagram yet.  Any help would be appreciated!

@guruji
I tried out the charger that uses a capacitor
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9157.msg241231#msg241231
It seems alot more difficult to tweak for me because I don't have access to a wide variety of capacitors.  The one I tried only gives me ~60v spikes whereas I was getting ~200v with my earlier setup.   Of course, the 60v spikes only cost me 20ma instead of 410ma.  If I could get it tweaked with a good capacitor it would be a lot better.  What capacitor are you using?
I used 1uf and 100nf but neither gives much more than 60v spikes :S
One of them just makes my transistor get really hot
Perhaps I need to  vary the 100k resistance?

Quote from: guruji on May 25, 2010, 11:20:26 AM
Hi crowclaw thanks for response but does this circuit charge both batteries?
I am using Groundloop circuit right now and have an 8pin DPDT relay. I don't know how to hook a swapper to it any help please?
Thanks

Hi Guruji,

As the circuit stands the battery on the right side of the diagram provides the power source  while the circuit only charges the  battery in the centre. You must first make sure you 'condition' the cells prior to them accepting a lasting charge. I take it you intend to use that relay to switch over the batteries  when each are charged.
Are you also using a 555 and relay as per diagram.   

@ Neofox,


@Crowclaw
Would it be possible to provide a diagram of the methods you prefer?  I would like to try a switching circuit for my charger setup but I haven't found a working diagram
yet.  Any help would be appreciated!

Yes I will gladly post some diagrams of my work, I am still experimenting with different configurations and the diagrams are all in my head so I will draw something out for you as soon as I can.... no problem.

Hi Niofox I tried other capacitors but don't know if it's more efficient than bedini setup.
I tried 22nf 63v;33nf 250v and 48nf 250v and now I'm using a 47nf 630v. Last one looks that it's giving high voltage although never saw the neon violet.
Try to experiment cause maybe it differs with certain coil lenghts.
Crowclaw so you managed to charge both batteries with that 555 timer relay setup?
Thanks

Niofox today I measured the output with a DMM it giving 300v!!!.
You said:The one I tried only gives me ~60v spikes whereas I was getting ~200v with my earlier setup.   Of course, the 60v spikes only cost me 20ma
What capacitor you used to give you that low consumption?
I would do both my setup and yours and then do a switch.
Thanks

@ All,
Hear is one of my experimental circuits using the back EMF to charge a 12volt 2.7Ah gel cell. I have not included the 555 timer circuit (unless requested) as there are plenty of examples. The frequency is variable at around 1KHz > 3KHz with a variable mark/space ratio. The timer output signal is fed to the input via 1K resistor to the BSP452. This device is known as a 'High side switch' and has MOSFET characteristics. The device is manufactured by Infineon and is a SMD device (surface mount device) which directly switches the source current through the Inductor L1. The back EMF pulses are coupled to the charge battery via D1... 1N5408 or similar, I used a UF5408 (ultra fast switching diode)  inductor L1 can be any type capable of supplying a few 100Ma's or more. You can also parallel up BSP452's to provide higher charge currents. Information on the BSP452 in PDF can be down loaded from the net.

Quote from: guruji on May 26, 2010, 02:09:03 PM
Niofox today I measured the output with a DMM it giving 300v!!!.
You said:The one I tried only gives me ~60v spikes whereas I was getting ~200v with my earlier setup.   Of course, the 60v spikes only cost me 20ma
What capacitor you used to give you that low consumption?
I would do both my setup and yours and then do a switch.
Thanks

104Z is printed on the cap.  Ceramic I think this is?
Anyways, here's the pic of it and some coil pics.  I just have it held together with that blue painter's tape
Using 110k ohms (measured) and the MJL21194 transistor
I measured the spikes using a cap as output, I don't have a scope yet

Quote from: niofox on May 26, 2010, 07:37:22 PM
104Z is printed on the cap.  Ceramic I think this is?

Hi Noefox,
Yes your cap is a ceramic plate type and 100n or 0.1uf
regards M

Ok Niofox thanks for the info. That coil that you did is pretty wide I did mine on a spool like bedini style.
Ok my setup is 1k 1/2watt resistor with a 0.47uf at 630v mylar capacitor and on the DMM 300v was giving at 0.8amps.
Ok thanks.

Groundloop's circuit is good but not efficient as bedini I can say. Today I tried the usual setup of bedini but with resisitors instead of rotor and again the coil was hissing. I cut some lenght from the base winding and an oscillation came. Yeeeees.
Ok I will try to amalgamate both circuits now. When I need a harsh pulse I put it to groundloops but when I need effiency turn to bedini.
Thanks

@crowclaw: tx for the circuit. Was wondering what other high side power switches one could use (perhaps an IRF device) - i am battling to find the infineon device you mention ie the BSP452?

Quote from: heathzap on May 29, 2010, 08:53:37 AM
@crowclaw: tx for the circuit. Was wondering what other high side power switches one could use (perhaps an IRF device) - i am battling to find the infineon device you mention ie the BSP452?

Hi heathzap,

Sorry for delay in returning your question. Here is the link for the data sheet: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/infineon/1-Datasheet_BSP452.pdf

I have used this device for many other applications for supply switching etc. They are surface mount devices but can easily be adapted for conventional build projects. I'm not sure how easy they are to obtain as I have several of these to hand. I'm sure IRF devices are also readily available http://www.irf.com/product-info/ips/ for some reason I can't access this site it just hangs up so I can't check it out for you. If you have problems come back to me. Kind Regards

Hi Crowclaw, tx for the reply. I'm keen to try your circuit. As a newbie it's a variation of Daftmans circuit (on energetix) which I've been playing with. Do you have any pics of your working setup? My end goal is to help a poor rural community pulse charge their battery banks using lower power (therefore cost) PV panels. I will need to parallel up those high-side switches! Any advice would be appreciated. Tx for sharing your knowledge as you do!

Quote from: heathzap on June 06, 2010, 05:32:46 AM
Hi Crowclaw, tx for the reply. I'm keen to try your circuit. As a newbie it's a variation of Daftmans circuit (on energetix) which I've been playing with. Do you have any pics of your working setup? My end goal is to help a poor rural community pulse charge their battery banks using lower power (therefore cost) PV panels. I will need to parallel up those high-side switches! Any advice would be appreciated. Tx for sharing your knowledge as you do!

Hi heathzap, most of my experimental projects tend to be tested and then dismantled as the project progresses, however I have been using a four parallel version of my BSP452 I posted previously. For this design I use four  identical 22R small air cored inductors each connected to it's own BSP452 and each having a diode output. The anodes are all common ed up and each BSP452 inputs  are also common connected to the 555 timer IC's output. This circuit then provides four times the BEMF into the charge cell. The BSP's inputs are high impedance so provide negligible loading from the timers output, and each output is also matched and summed when presented to the charging cell. If you haven't already done so put together a 555 timer with both frequency and mark space ratio control Potts. The timer circuit then gives you maximum flexability in controlling the best charging method for the type of cell in use. I will post a pic of this set up as soon as I can.

Hi Crowclaw, thanks for the added info. I'll be trying this config during the next couple of weeks and hope to post some results. Thanks once again for sharing your expertise!

@Crowclaw: Further to my last, I have access to the ITS4140 high-side switch. Here is the link: http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/ITS4140N_DS_Rev21.pdf?folderId=db3a304412b407950112b408e8c90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b4298dc34130

Seems that it should do the business but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards

Quote from: heathzap on June 07, 2010, 02:40:19 PM
@Crowclaw: Further to my last, I have access to the ITS4140 high-side switch. Here is the link: http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/ITS4140N_DS_Rev21.pdf?folderId=db3a304412b407950112b408e8c90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b4298dc34130

Seems that it should do the business but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards

Hi heathzap, Yes worth a try... these devices adapt easily. Make sure your drive signal switches at or very near ground, a general purpose signal type mosfet would be ideal at the input to achieve this purpose. These devices draw very little gate current and are high impedance of course so can be paralleld up if needed. One last point... depending on power dissipation include a heatsink. I've used short lengths of copper water pipe with a flattened tab formed out of one end and soldered to the tab. You can use plastic type pipe fittings to secure the pipe to the project chassis, remember the tab is electrically connected. Have fun

@Crowclaw: as always, thanks for the advice!

cycle time = time "on" + time "off"

ITS4140  cycle tm = 300us = .30ms =>  3.3KHz.
BSP452   cycle tm = 250us = .25ms =>  4.0KHz.

@Crowclaw: I have ordered some BSP's. Just one further question is that in an earlier thread you mention inductors of 2R2 and elsewhere you said 22R. Could you clarify this? Maybe you have some further details on what you have tried? Appreciate it. Tx

Hi Alpesh this is the solid bedini circuit

Is there someone who did a secondary coil to the solid state bedini?