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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: dayfox on July 04, 2007, 08:40:42 PM

Title: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: dayfox on July 04, 2007, 08:40:42 PM
First off, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg&mode=related&search=

Skip to the end (about 20 secs before it finishes). What if you fixed the skateboard wheel to the axle, attach to the axle two "spirals" of plastic, http://www.photolava.com/view/3ntj.html (excuse microsoft paint); either side of the wheel. Then you make another axle with the magnet and rest it on top of the cams, so for every rotation, the cam moves the magnet away, as needed for the wheel to rotate.

Concept here (ms paint again!)
http://www.photolava.com/view/3ntk.html

If you need more explainations, email me sr.7.one [at] gmail [dot]com
-or just email me if you have any ideas.

Cheers
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: gyulasun on July 05, 2007, 07:04:12 AM
Hello,

I think it would be worth experimenting with your suggestion, the crucial area that needs the best engineering possible  is where the cams touch / contact  the second axle that holds the (reciprocating) magnet.  If you could make the friction at the minimum possible between them, it would be a better chance for a self-runner.  Maybe using ball bearings on the second axle that could roll on the thick enough surface area of the cams?  Still the suspenson / appropiate holding of the second axle is also of importance.

Can you make some experiments on your idea with the cams and the second axle?

There is the second part of the video you referred to above, see this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHffliC2whk

Regards
Gyula
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: dayfox on July 05, 2007, 09:56:36 AM
I don't really have the tools to carry out such an experiment; but if anyone else does, I would be interested if you could email me the results.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: JamesThomas on July 07, 2007, 06:19:04 PM
I had this very idea after watching these two videos; in fact if you go to the second video, and go to the messages left a month ago you will find one left by JamesThomas that suggests the cam idea.

Now as I recall, as I was researching prier to actually doing the experiments, I came across on the web someone who appeared to be very knowledgeable regarding magnetics saying that the hand action of moving the stator magnet away from the wheel magnets (which can be done in a lot of other configurations besides the V-gate) is doing way more work than can be derived from the spin of the wheel...which would be needed to make a mechanical cam mechanism work. This dissuaded me from moving ahead with the idea.

Having not done the experiment myself, I'll never really know.

j
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: kallstrom_74 on July 22, 2007, 05:55:06 AM
i would like to try this skateboard wheel out...i have tried to count how many magnets he has and so...can anyone tell me how many it is needed and what kind..and the size of the wheel...and perhaps how to draw the lines...and perhaps any improvments that can be made...i have tried to contact him on youtube but he will not awnser :(
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: armagdn03 on July 23, 2007, 01:14:46 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: supersam on July 26, 2007, 05:49:42 PM
@at everyone
have you ever thought that he might just be wanting to improve the efficiency of the skateboard?  hmm those suckers are sure hard to keep going if you are trying to go uphill!

lol
sam
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: kallstrom_74 on August 18, 2007, 05:53:40 PM
is there any other configs other than the "v gate" to try out.. imena the v gate i can understand and (build in my head) :)...but if you all say it wont work..that can you try instead??

i just had an idea that i read on the "youtube video of this v gate" if you had 3 or more wheels..wouldnt that perhaps keep it going over the "flux".. you have 3 wheels..at all time 2 wheels puch the 3rd wheel over the sticky point?? or is it just and crazy wierd idea perhaps?
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: mapsrg on August 18, 2007, 07:55:08 PM
how about  spiralling the gate up a cylinder that is cone shaped and adjusts for the height changes in the magnets....in this way you wont need some fancy mechanical adjustment.... ???
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: kallstrom_74 on August 19, 2007, 02:51:11 PM
anyone think that a cone could be a thing to try out :)
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: mikem33 on October 06, 2007, 05:27:55 PM
armagdn03 you are right about the cam not working.  I talked to him directly as I had the same idea.  He said he had thought about posting on YouTube as he had tried the cam and in fact it didn't work.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 07, 2007, 01:02:47 AM
I kind of like the cone idea. Introduce an inclined plane into the equation. Interesting.  I hope someone with more available funds than I (right now) tries this. I can't afford one skateboard wheel right now... ha ha

Bill
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Low-Q on October 07, 2007, 08:32:49 AM
Quote from: dayfox on July 04, 2007, 08:40:42 PM
First off, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg&mode=related&search=

Skip to the end (about 20 secs before it finishes). What if you fixed the skateboard wheel to the axle, attach to the axle two "spirals" of plastic, http://www.photolava.com/view/3ntj.html (excuse microsoft paint); either side of the wheel. Then you make another axle with the magnet and rest it on top of the cams, so for every rotation, the cam moves the magnet away, as needed for the wheel to rotate.

Concept here (ms paint again!)
http://www.photolava.com/view/3ntk.html

If you need more explainations, email me sr.7.one [at] gmail [dot]com
-or just email me if you have any ideas.

Cheers
You want to adapt the hanheld magnets motion? I see. It looks promesing, but the movement of the hand is in fact adding energy to the system - energy taken from the man who held the magnet. If you are gonna provide similar force by getting it from the rotor itself, this force require energy - energy you don't have. The rotormagnet and the stator magnet will allways work against each other, and cancel out all forces in sum. I'm afraid your idea will therefor never work no matter how hard you think on it.

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: mapsrg on October 08, 2007, 01:30:24 AM
how about this.....?.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: panoascape on October 19, 2007, 06:21:13 PM
Howdy,

Thanks for taking a look at my Calloway V gate magnet motor. To answer some of the qestions, my hand is doing work. There is a great pulling force in attraction mode and the cam idea will not work due to friction. Not enogh power in the initial spin to get the cam working. I've tried it and it just stalls on the cam.

The drawing above is something I want to try, but don't have the tools to build or the time. I get about 6 comments on the videos every day and I have no time to answer them all. Sorry if I haven't gotten back to questions, there's just to many of them coming in.

I think the only way to get this to work is to build a balanced, inward spiral that dips the gate about half to a full inch into itself.

It's made from a 83mm skate wheel and has 26 magents on each side of the V. I tried to space them so the space between the magnets was half the diameter, but it ended up being about a full diameter space between them. The diameter being 1/4".

I tried placing a ring around the wheel with three stator magnets, so two would push the third through the gate, but the gate is much to strong, it didn't work.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Good luck with all your ventures.

Thanks again for checking it out.

rw
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 20, 2007, 12:42:08 AM
My thoughts:

I understand why you used the skate wheel....easily available, good bearings, low friction.  But, what if this were attempted on a larger scale.  Meaning, a larger diameter wheel like a bike wheel or something else.  The force seems very strong so you could possibly build up enough energy in the "flywheel" to carry through the sticky spot.  I know a lot of effort has gone into this already.  I am just proposing trying on a larger diameter wheel/flywheel.

Bill
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: mapsrg on October 20, 2007, 06:36:47 PM
I agree with Bill...out of all the tech this idea must be in the top 10 for a potential breakthrough.A larger wheel especially as a stack of wheels with multiple bars to push over the sticking point could do it.Apart from this the stickiing point needs to be closely analysed...maybe this sticking force can be turned around to cause a more desired effect.....its postion on the rotating wheel would effect the potential to overcoming this force...Question: what weight can the sticking point support before it turns past this position?
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 20, 2007, 09:01:38 PM
@Mapsrg:

Exactly!  Your question is, I think, the key. Use the force to accelerate and blow past the sticky spot.  Only experimentation will tell.

Bill
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: panoascape on October 21, 2007, 04:30:03 PM
Both good points. I think a flywheel effect and a larger diameter could help out a great deal. Switching the rotor magnets with steel might help too, with costs. Right now there's about $100 worth of magnets in the thing. If I make it any bigger my wife will have some choice words for me due to the added cost of extra magnets  :o

Using a V shaped steel wire might do the trick. If it's a laser cut steel V then you could tapper the top of the V so it's very thin and thicken up the base of the V. This woild help reduce the gate and strengthen the weak, middle gauss vortex in the stator magnet.

hmmmmm...

Off to search for a bike wheel and a local laser cutter.

rw
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 21, 2007, 04:36:03 PM
@Panoscape:

Are you suggesting using a V-shaped wire wraped around the circuference of the wheel?  If so, this could be brilliant!  Not to mention a lot cheaper than buying all of those magnets.  This would be very interesting.  You would have one, clearly defined sticky spot but, you would have 359 degrees of rotation and the energy stored in the flywheel to possibly over come it.  This is a very creative bunch here on this forum and I love it!

Bill
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: panoascape on October 21, 2007, 05:26:40 PM
Yep, that's what I'm talking about.

You can even grind down the ends of the wire, at the top of the V to help reduce the gate even more.

The trick is where to end the small part of the V. Does it loop around inside itself? If so, how far? How much added force will this help to pass the gate? Or, do we have multiple V's inset inside of each other amplifying the pull force through the multipe spaced gates?

Something to try.

rw
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: rice on October 21, 2007, 07:42:11 PM
what if you were to block the gate or weaken it by placing a piece of flat 1/8 or 1/4 steel on it and leave it there?
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: mikem33 on October 23, 2007, 10:47:13 PM
I used some Neodymium 3/4" X 1/4" N42 wafer shaped magnets on Plexiglas. I put one on top and on the bottom to hold them in place and left the thin plastic protective covering on the Plexiglas so I could quickly move the magnets to almost any configuration in a couple of minutes and there was enough friction to keep them from collapsing together.

Here is what I found.  The movement of a "cart" over the magnets regardless of a "V" or parallel formation was actually accomplished via a "slingshot" effect.  It was the initial energy by holding the "cart" far enough off the end so that when it was let go that propelled it the end of the run. If you look at any of the experiments you'll see they only go a couple or three cycles.  That is all they will go.  As you noticed even with your wheel it requires you hand motion to obtain movement.  If you just put your stator in place while you held the wheel and then let go you would obtain very little movement. So it requires movement up and down because the wheel simply sticks and causes little or no rotation unless there is an up an down (in and out - left to right, whatever) movement.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Rapadura on March 03, 2010, 10:51:45 PM
A cam may substitute any hand motion...
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Judges on March 05, 2010, 07:28:15 PM
Yes,,I thought for months after the Marlow incident,,,some one would provide a cam,,easy to see,hard to design.
j.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: McGiver30 on March 05, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
 I would like to add my experience in the v-gate study and say that i get very similar affects with alot less magnets and some better resaults.. i have been limited of money because of my divorce and came across an old washing machine.. in it had a pulse switch controlled by 2 iron rotors. one was north and one was south. they both sandwitched a magnet creating one north and one south rotor..the outer edge of rotor had teeth..i made my own rotors in the V like manner and sandwitched a magnet with them and guess what?.. it turned. then i played with the size of teeth and got good resaults . I would video my experiments, but i don't have a camera(ex got that). the experiment is simple and doesn't take long. i used a small speaker magnet..3" out of an old clock radio. The steel came from my old computer case. the stator magnets came from my kids magnet building toys.. pulled the magnets out and stacked them..rare earth magnets 3/16" x 3/16" stacked to reach 3". rotors are 3" in dia. steel.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Rapadura on March 05, 2010, 08:50:30 PM
Since this is the appropriated thread, I have to post the link to this two videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux4qfizL0xg

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbj3rIFVb5w

If you watch these videos every day, you will increasily believe that perpetual motion and overunity are possible.
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: infringer on March 05, 2010, 11:30:41 PM
a small low powered actuator would use more power then an electromagnet would it not why could we not throw a sensor and an actuator on this baby have arm lift then drop at v gate...

EDIT NEW NO POWER IDEA

place a round plexi glass track on wheel to lift the stator up and down when needed...


I think we may have something here!

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Building on the Calloway V Gate principle.
Post by: Rapadura on March 06, 2010, 08:34:01 PM
Quote from: infringer on March 05, 2010, 11:30:41 PM
place a round plexi glass track on wheel to lift the stator up and down when needed...

It's precisely a CAM!

That's all we need: a cam with the mininum possible friction.

Yes, we CAM!