Tao:
Great graphics and explanation. Keep them coming.
Much appreciate your unselfish acts!
Regards
chrisC
tao.
May I suggest that you submit your "TPU tech solution"chapters" in pdf format if possible?
It is very difficult (at least for me) to read the format you used, because the window does not accommodate the full width of your post. Much horizontal scrolling is necessary.
Perhaps Stefan could fix this, I'm not sure, but pdf would be great for all interested, I'm sure.
Thanks,
Darren
I have a widescreen monitor, so for those who don't, here is a PDF of Tao's excellent work so far. I will check back every day and convert the new information if Tao doesn't mind.
Keep it up! This is some of the best documentation I have seen in a while.
Nicely done, Tao. Thank you for layin' it all out there in the simplest of terms!
--Mark.
hey Tao, nice drawings but the control coils should be wrapped all the way around.
At least, that is what i was thinking...
M.
Hi Tao;
Not trying to slow you down! When you have some spare time, can you say what/which 2D/3D modelling tool you use to generate the nice graphics?
Thanks
chrisC
@All
I would stop here for a second and try to flush things out. The lines which are showed inside the Inductor (aka control coil) are lines of the magnetic field formed by the current flowing through the inductor. There is no way that those are the lines of the electric field, since electric field of the current flowing through conductor is mainly focused within the volume of conductor with the direction along the length of the inductor (axial). Outside of the conductor, on the surface beside the axial there exists radial component as well, but they are both very weak and decay very fast in distance.
So can we clarify this issue, in order to move on in the right direction?
Regards
DigiLab
ChrisC: Bryce 3D, Photoshop.
I thank you all for you comments, I am doing the best I can.
In reference to Digilab, I got the main part of the electric field / inductor knowledge directly from EMDevices, I am sure he will chime in at some time here. At the moment I just want to get off of OU.com if you know what I mean, lol, all day just making image and typing lol.
But I will say this, even if what you say were true, it doesn't affect the operating procedure laid out in my end game post one bit, as there are OTHER WAYS to entice the electrons to move, ie. other ways to create the essential HV electric fields via the use of the control coils. So as it stands in my head, the entire procedure is sound.
Man, am I tired, I think I need a break, sorry for the short post digilab, I'll be back...
To all, thanks again for the comments, I appreciate the feedback, and just know, I have no ego involved in this...
Why am I all of a sudden on the hot seat ?Ã, Ã, HaÃ, HaÃ, Ã, :D
Digilab, you are correct in what you are saying, but it needs clarifying.Ã, Ã,Â
In STEADY STATE, or after the transitory currents have died down, the flux inside a solenoid is mostly MAGNETIC.
In the short time span leading up to STEADY STATE, the situation is different.
Also, in the sort time span after the current is interupted, again that is not the case.
I will include a picture that I posted at gnosis.com and that tao saw, just have a bit of patience.
EM
P.S.Ã, Ã, Take for example the situation when the MAGNETIC FLUX collapses.Ã, Ã, If the current is prevented from flowing (since the coil wire has been disconnected from the supply)Ã, The flux will collapse RAPIDLY.Ã, A voltage will be induced in each loop of the coil, and charges are moved by this voltage and bunch up on the surface giving rise to an ELECTROSTATIC potential.Ã, Ã, So each loop in the coil adds to this potential, the longer the coil the higher the potential between the ends.Ã, I should also add that this electrostatic potential is stronger on the OUTSIDE, as we all know that charges readjust on the surface to make it so, but in the short time that this things happen, electrodynamics rule (as compared to electrostatics)
Here's another way to create anÃ, electric field using a two wire transmission line (like a lampcord.)Ã, Ã,Â
I believe the larger TPU that SM demonstrates potentialy uses this, I can almost see it in some of the closeup photos.
Now with this setup, you just have to resonate the transmission line, and set up STANDING WAVES on it.Ã, Ã, Keeping in mind where the MAXIMA and MINIMA occur along the line, one can engineer the right setup to drive charges ELECTROSTATICALY around the main coils of the TPU.Ã, For example if 1/4 resonace is used with an OPEN END line, then the MAXIMA, or the place where the voltage will be highest, will occur at the end of the line.Ã, Ã, All this theory falls under Transmission-Line theory, and most electrical engineers should be familiar with this.Ã,Â
EM
P.S.Ã, Perhaps I should explain the drawingÃ, :)
The (+) and (-) you see are the two wire transmission line wound around the collector.Ã, We are looking at a x-section through the conductor wound with this two wire line and are seeing the multiple loops along its length.
And another diagram.
Notice that I show the E-field outside the coils as well. I also show the E-field close to the wires (just in the upper Left corner so I dont' clutter up the picture) You get the idea.
EM
@Emdevices
Thanks for the reply. I see where you are going and I like it. I like the explanation in the first P.S. which is completely valid, and I like the second drawing, it tells all, but I don?t know how much energy you can extract from electric field created like that. I have to chew on that a little bit and do some tests.
@Tao
Thanks for the reply as well. I hope you don?t mind my dropping in. My intention is to flush the things out with that what I know in order to be sure that we are stepping in the right direction.
I would like to take the liberty to speak on behalf of the people from this forum. That said I wish you success going through this endeavor and thank you for sharing it with us.
Godspeed.
DigiLab
As far as the amount of energy we can draw from this, well that's all "up in the air"Ã, Ã, :)
This was just a concept we developed back at gn0sis.com, and tao loved it so much, Lindsay endorsed it, and we all cried over it, we were so happy.Ã, Ã, Ha HaÃ, :)
On a more serious note,Ã, I want to mention that transmission lines have a very high Q, or quality of resonance.Ã, SO THE VOLTAGE CAN GO VERY VERY HIGH AT THE RESONANT FREQUENCY.Ã, Ã,Â
Here's one more picture I drew to illustrate the concept.
We now just use plates (capacitor formed between the main plate and our end plates) and when the coil fires, it creates a high voltage (depending on the capacitance and coil parameters)
HOWEVER,Ã, we don't need to do this because.....Ã, EACH COIL LOOP HAS SOME CAPACITANCE TO THE MAIN COLLECTOR, that's inside the coil (or it can be outside near by the coil, but it's more elegant and practical on the inside).Ã, This capacitance is called Distributed Capacitance when one calculates transmission line parameters.Ã, Anyway, a setup with just the coil achives the same result as this plate setup I illustrate.Ã, It simply moves charges by ELECTROSTATIC repulsion.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on July 11, 2007, 05:04:13 PM
As far as the amount of energy we can draw from this, well that's all "up in the air" :)
Yes, this truly is up in the air, but given the fact that we can ENGINEER and CREATE very high voltages, as opposed to lower voltages, MERELY BY CHANGING TIMINGS, this right there is an asymmetric process. Add to that the fact that once a HV field is in place, no matter how long, the electrons will MOVE THEMSELVES toward the positive region with a FORCE based on how high our high voltages are. Thirdly, the entire mock TPU setup has Anti-Lenz characteristics inherent in itself.
So, we basically have then three asymmetric process all attributing to POWER OUTPUT.
So, truthfully, it is up in the air, as Tupac would say, 'Only god knows'... lol
But seriously, everything FITS with SM's words, analogies, everything he basically said. So, by tomorrow night, I should have my thread complete and you all can see what I mean, even more so. Sorry it's taking so long, but I want to do it right.
Quote
This was just a concept we developed back at gn0sis.com, and tao loved it so much, Lindsay endorsed it, and we all cried over it, we were so happy. Ha Ha :)
EM
BWAHAHA!!! Good one EM... ;)
Here is Tao's latest in PDF form...
Nice drawing and explanations EMdevices,
also many thanks to Tao for these great pics !
Maybe Tao can put also EMdevices?s pics also into his thread, then it would
very complete and also more understandable.
So it seems to have a good effect we need to wind the control coils with very
thin isolation distance directly onto the output collector coil, right ?
Also it then makes sense to have a fine stranded very big diameter output coil
for the lowest possible resistance and with many fine wires which don?t have much skin effect.
Regards, Stefan.
I have been beginning to study a bit more the audio patent from Steven Mark
and as he is using white noise for his audio process.
Maybe we should also generate these massive kicks inside the control coils
via a noise generator ?
As the TPU coils are indeed LC circuits with their L and stray capacitance C,
they will just amplifiy the right frequencies from the noise generator.
Hi Tao,
Thankyou for putting all this information together. It explains the principles beautifully.
I agree that this should work and I also believe it will work but...
I've been trying to do things with electric fields for a little while:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2607.msg37572.html#msg37572
In practice it's a lot harder to do than it appears. Differences in my approach were:
1. I've always used didoes to hold the electric field - so that could be wrong.
2. I've only ever had 3 coils in any one circle, that in total took up about 25% of the circumference of the coil. That is clearly different from having control coils touching or overlapping. I think this is very important as you highlight.
3. I was measuring the electric field as a function on how high a voltage I could hold with the diodes. The highest hold level from the BEMF I could achieve was about 600V. ( I realise holding the electric field is not what you are proposing). So using BEMF, although high voltage, is for too short a time compared with the charging time of the magnetic field.
4. I was also using speaker wire as the collector, which I think would shield the electric field ,now i think about it. duhhh!
I was concentrating more on building up the electric field in a coil and trying to transfer it to the next coil, so that the electric field voltage would get higher and higher from one coil to the next so that the voltage would be high enough for effects to happen. (Transferring didn't work).
I really think your proposal is the way forward but I think people need to be thinking in terms of very high voltage as in a few thousand volts, and not to get discouraged with this idea if there are no real results when using less that a 1000v.
I'm away on a contract for a while so won't be able to reply to any comments for a few days.
Cheers, Bob.
OK, here is Tao's finished document in PDF form, for easy printing, etc.
Once again, thanks Tao! Excellent work in there.
Quote from: eldarion on July 13, 2007, 01:45:55 PM
OK, here is Tao's finished document in PDF form, for easy printing, etc.
Once again, thanks Tao! Excellent work in there.
Thanks...
Appreciate the comments, truly...
Oh, and that PDF of yours, I noticed that on page 2 the images are all shrunk...
So, below I have attached a formated PDF I made of the entire TPU: End Game document...
Quote from: tao on July 13, 2007, 03:49:27 PM
Oh, and that PDF of yours, I noticed that on page 2 the images are all shrunk...
Why so they are...sorry about that! :-[ Good ol' OpenOffice being "helpful", I suppose.
Did you ever find out what causes the physical vibration when the TPU is running? I didn't see that anywhere.
Hi Tao:
Great job! Good that you explain the "difficult" concepts in layman terms. Very readable concepts and knowledge base. I'm sure we have plenty more questions to follow soon.
So, the next logical question is, "Are you going to talk more about your TPU (this version). Is it self running? Power I/O for the power mongers and will there be any photos, videos etc.
Thanks again.
chrisC
Quote from: eldarion on July 13, 2007, 04:26:53 PM
Quote from: tao on July 13, 2007, 03:49:27 PM
Oh, and that PDF of yours, I noticed that on page 2 the images are all shrunk...
Why so they are...sorry about that! :-[ Good ol' OpenOffice being "helpful", I suppose.
Did you ever find out what causes the physical vibration when the TPU is running? I didn't see that anywhere.
Yes, sorry...
That is caused by the successive KICKs that are occuring around the circumference of the TPU when it is operating. Remember the 'tapping the ball' example that I had in my writeup? Well, when a control coil makes a KICK, it is causing the electrons in that area to MOVE and do so in a quick fashion, so, this movement causes a magnetic (B) field to be created within that 'area' of the collector.
Now, when the TPU is operating, it will have a magnetic (B) field around the collector(s), and when these NEW KICKs are continually happening, this B field from the NEW KICKs interact with the B fields from the existing 'electron movements' that were already in the collector(s).
So there is a sort of interaction(attraction/repulsion of mag fields) that is happening as the KICKs are made around the entire TPU, in a circle fashion, and these are what can be felt with a human hand...
Not to mention, Steven said that he used three collectors that laid on top of each other, so, there would not only be interactions like the ones I described above when the NEW KICKs happen, but there would be interactions(attraction/repulsion of mag fields) between the different NEW KICKs happening around the three different collectors, and even the collectors themselves. Many interactions, which all lead to one thing, the physical vibrations!
Hello Tao and All,
Tao, I absolutely LOVE your theory!!! I wanted to slap myself after seeing your graphic here:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zpelabs.com%2Fzpelabs%2Fendgame%2Fpre4.gif&hash=fe47070c748c3f9c401d512edd6d091aea291447)
I had been thinking along similar lines as you months ago but I dropped the idea simply because I FORGOT about the E-field that is created in the coil before the magnetic field starts to build!! But what you are saying is 110% consistent with what I *almost* thought about! I definitely subscribe to your theory here and I thought I would dredge up one of my old posts in support of your thoughts.
The first (and most significant thing) is the association with particle accelerators. ChrisC was asking earlier how to figure out what frequencies to use to get the right train of pulses for acceleration. I posted the following regarding Kylstron Particle accelerators in the CTG labs forum back in December. Here is an excerpt of the relevant part below:
QuoteI had been thinking about this possibility for weeks until Mr. Marks blatantly mentioned it in Mr. Mannix?s last post. I have been doing some research into the operation of particle accelerators to see just how they can accelerate electrons to high energy levels. What I?ve learned is that they all use electrostatic forces to move the particles! Of particular interest are the circular accelerators which use a device called a Klystron to accelerate the moving particles. An RF frequency oscillation is put into the tubes surrounding the particles and the electrostatic waves "bunch" the particles up in waves and propel them through the circle! I posted a diagram of a Klystron?. One thing you need to pay attention to is the direction of the RF input!! Bifilar!!! And the beam of particles (moving through it at 90 degrees) is shown on the diagram as a DC movement! Another striking parallel is the fact that the gap between the incoming and outgoing RF signals are critical to the operation (and amplification) of the waves inside the tube!! Sound familiar?
Don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klystron
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D2730.0%3Battach%3D10582&hash=26f2f6a39b0e4987f9676cadbeee0914ae098484)
There is one correction that I want to make to this though. The second RF cavity of the Klystron is actually used to
slow down the electrons once they have speed up. This has no use to us in a bifilar coil setup like I eluded to in my post. The opposing ring is used in applications where the Klystron is used as a high frequency modulator.
I also read from this document here: http://www.tpub.com/neets/book11/45b.htm which makes mention of feedback being used to keep the beam under control. Without it, the Klystron starts to act like an amplifier!
You can also see shades of Stevens ?cannon ball? effect here because the klystrons ?bunch? up the electron beam into packets as they are accelerated down the tube! The system can have more than two stages to accelerate the packets of electrons faster and faster before they reach the end of the tube.
Also, check out this passage from the second source:
?The beam is then accelerated by a very high positive dc potential that is applied in equal amplitude to both the accelerator grid and the buncher grids. The buncher grids are connected to a cavity resonator that superimposes an ac potential on the dc voltage.?
Now there is only one fundamental difference here between the TPU and the Klystron. The ?AC? potentials that we are superimposing upon the DC biased ?accelerator? are DC pulses rather that AC sinusoidal potentials! So one can immediately see how a TPU could work massively better here with high voltage DC spikes. All we need is a small bias on the collector coil to get the electrons moving a bit, and then we pummel it with high voltage, unidirectional, pulses from the control coils. As Tao stated, this is why it is critically important to NOT have lots of hash and ringing in the output pulses, anything that will cause the resulting e-field to reverse will work against the acceleration of the electrons in the collector coil.
One more note concerning the e-field on the control coils, we can calculate how much acceleration we would get from the electrons on the collector coil knowing how strong the resulting e-field produced by the control coil is, and the resistance of the collector wire. Lower resistance, means faster acceleration.
Multi-strand copper wire anyone?
God Bless,
Jason O