welcome I have spent years playing around with this engine. It runs on Hydroxy ( Hydrogen-oxygen)Ã, made by an electrolysis process that many people have been working on and I felt it was time to introduce this engine to the forum.Ã, I'm giving this to everyone so it can be builtÃ, and everyone can make a little profit for them selfs as they see fit, I'm not looking for any monetary gain- I'll build my own units. I'll start out with the major parts and we can refine as needed. one thing will have to be dealt with is the ignition system I have plans on and will present a copy and see how it go's. Any Questions feel free to askÃ, I'll post photosÃ, of parts and give the reference to what it is and it's function , I suggest every one that wants to do this, down load the page I'm sure someone that has adobe will be able to put this in PDF format as a user manual. I have chatted with some other folks about this thread and are willing to help out with the cad work and machining CAd file that will be needed. OK here WE go!!!!! july -21- 2007
This is the first part on the engine , The cylinders - There are 6 cylinders on each end on the Motor , heres a model in the photo . the ends are 1/2 inch Aluminum Plate machined for the cylinder insert and the Valving system , the vavle will be coved in another reply. the cylinders are about 2 inches in diameter and have a 1 inch stroke . These are from weed eaters so the size you use will very, the prices i have gotten for the pistons were fairly cheep.
this reply will deal with the rotor cam.Ã, The cam is 6 inches in Diameter and 2 inches thick with a serpentine cam wave machined in to its faces, This is where the bearing from the piston connecting rod rides on ( there are 2 pistons on each rod - this is due to opposing firring of the ignition system ) every cylinder is opposite on each end of the motor making a total of 12 cylinders. The first photo is the cam model laying on the cylinders with a small flash lite as the connecting rod to show where the cam relation the the stroke occurs.
This is the drive shaft and end caps that will be the exhaustÃ, to drive the small turbos (one for each end of the motor) this is a 56c frame but I'm going to a larger frame an 86c frame this will allow for the valves to be machined and have plenty of room for exhaust and valves. Theses are striped out Electric motors and just a few parts from the frame are used end caps and shaft (with armature pressed off ) and new bearings , these bearings are real beefy and not to expensive about 4 to 8 dollars each. The end caps have to be gotten off 2 motors you need the C end this is flat and has plenty of room inside. This will be bolted to the 1/2 aluminum plates the the cylinders and valves are machined in. I hope Joe dirt can get us a rendering of the cut away view of the motor so everyone can see how the parts fit together soon. ;DÃ, These Motor can be gotten from electric motor rebuilders , generaly they would give them to you or sell them as salvage , just explane what you are useing them for and a lot of time the rebuilder will work with you and give you a hand in takeing it apart. you want to get the 86c frame motor and c end caps
Part 4 . this is where I explain the graph and cam to function of the motor. the first photo is the cam laid out flat and the second one is the one lobe on the cam, we'll start at the high point from the left. as the cam turns on the shaft driving the pistons back and forth the power stroke occurs here and the cam is turned to the piston goes the bottom ( while this one is at TBC total bottom center the piston in the other end of the connecting rod is at it's peak to start its power stroke ) now the piston is at the bottom we have the turbo pumping air into the cylinder , now that we have the air coming in here we only have to deal with the exhaust valve on the other end , These I'm working on using magnetic solenoid valves with built in hydrogen injectors built in them ( that drawing will be covered in an other reply.) the valve stays open even though the piston has moved up. for one helping clear on the burnt gases but we don't want to have to much compression at TDC (top dead center) this may preignite the hydroxy and cause the motor to run back wards. OK so now we have a ONE stroke motor , clean torque , extremely efficientÃ, Ã, Ã, Ã, ( heres a Spiceal note about machineing the cam roter )Ã, The piston rod connecting the 2 pistons together is critical it runs 90 degrees to the cam and the cam gets thinner as the sine gos from top to botton TDC to BDC
Genius . This is very nicely simplified .
A couple of days to think about this and I will start on the idea.
I more or less scrapped the other motor idea for now. I would really
like to Mac out a few parts and put one of your motors together .
Great concept and Build
IronHead
Iron head that would be great , I'm not good on Cad and don't have a good program,Ã, any thing you can do would be greatful. BEP said he would try to get a CAD program for the rotor cam so we can send the file to a machine shop and get parts made , a company Like E-machine online . MikeÃ, ;D
I will also try and send some DXF or Master cam 9 raw files for CAD/CAM as well . I have to make the file to G code them out the the Bridgeport C cutter . Going to take me some time as there is so much going on . Got to prepare the American Coach Heritage for winter living :) Thanks again Motorcoach1
Wow! This is WAY out of my league. Nicely done. I hope it works!
Got everything before this reply. I'm sure I'll be asking questions.
@Ironhead
I'm shooting for DXF out as well. We'll need some dims to do it. I'll have to lay it out so I know what to ask, first.
Thanks M.C. 8)
Give me some time to visualize in my minds eye and I,ll make a generic model
for reference, Fantastic stough, I love the creativity of this forum ;)
Appreciated
Dirt
To everyone here
Sounds good we need to collaborate .
I have an online VR chat world where I can show models in real time .
Spiralmatrix.com if you hit the Download button you can get the free browser
and come to my world named Energy in the world list. We can chat and design in 3D there.
PM me here if you are in the world I spend more time here then there.
Time to sleep now though.
Will most definately check it out, but the only software on 3d modelling I can
use (right now) are the freebies :P But I,ve grown kinda fond of openfx.
it does export to dfx but hard to get the dimensions to work with other programs.
Got to get offline for a little bit (chores) but will be back..
thanks
Dirt
Emachineshop.com has free soft ware that does cad work and Alibre design has a free 1 year usage trial pierod if that helps . Mike
Ã, This reply is to look at the Ignition system : the Ignition system is not conventional it uses no points or coil.Ã, There is a disk on one end of the motor , mounted to the drive shaft. This an optical coupling devise that sets the timeing of the motor to fire the ignition system , and operates the valves by magnetic selonoid, the BEMF from the seloniod is what fires the fuel in the motor.Ã, the spark plug as we know it is not used in this motor , what we have is a pezzio spark gap device. seeing we don't have to deal with fossel oils and carbon by products we can elininate these things.Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, As the valve is entergized to open and exhaust the cylinder the electromagnet is entergizedÃ, to operate the valve , as soon as the exhauts is complrted the valve closes , when theis happens the BEMF is stored to be used as the Ignition spark to fire the fuel. Hydroxy fuel is very volitoal this is why the ondemand generator cell are used , only make what you use at the demand point.Ã,Â
Hi Mike,
Nice looking design!
Just a quick question, not to throw cold water on the motor (every pun intended! ;D )
The GGE (gallon gas equivelency) for Hydrogen only is about 11,000 Liters. For combination Hydrogen, Oxygen = Hydroxy, the GGE is about 16,500 Liters.
Now, this means that if a vehicle gets 30 miles to the gallon of gas, and is traveling at 60 miles per hour, then to replace those two gallons of gas used in that 60 minute time frame, with hydroxy, it would require 33,000 LPH (Liters per hour) of Hydroxy gas. This translates to 550 LPM (Liters per minute) Now, at 2.4 WPH (Watts per hour) to produce 1 liter of gas, you would need a phenomonal amount of Electricity to make it work. And with that much electricity needed, just make an electric engine and power it by a series of TPU's. The math on hydroxy does NOT add up no matter how you slice it or dice it. I spent considerable time working with hydroxy before the TPU and the math NEVER adds up. EVEN with overunity, several times over... Even if your motor is super efficient, with no heat waste, do a calculation of horsepower to hydroxy and the math still does not add up.
The best use of hydroxy use in the automotive industry, in my humble opinion, is as a "supplement" or "additive" to the IC engine. Fuel efficiency can be increased up to 20%, and the electrical power is sufficient with a properly designed cell.
I don't want to discourage you, it is a cool idea. I just am trying to bring the reality of hydroxy to bare. It took me a long time to realize it. But it is fun!
We need more power! That was/is my conclusion, so, back to TPU Land with me! LOL
Highest regards,
Bruce
Interesting.
@ Bruce thank you for your input. this engine is one cycle that gets rid of 3 strokes as in a conventional ICE type power plant. On demand Hydroxy is a much more powerful gas than a stored gas. The other thing is most vaporized fuels will operate this engine and that can be delt with at a later time. Fireing all six cylinders at one time, due to how small they are it still uses less than say one large cylinder of a 406 cid ford engine. i'm looking Closely at BB"s cell and feel it will run this style of engine most efficiently, He has a fourm in Yahoo about hydroxy and lots of good information is there by other posters. Ã, progress is slow but it's still progress 99% persperationÃ, ;DÃ, Ã, Ã, Ã, PS I feel that the gas (liquid) and hydroxy formulas are not as accurat as they should be,Ã, liquid is liquidÃ, and gas vapor is gas vapor and stiil feel it should be formulated that way. I feel some folks have used this as a misdirection in the devlopment of the fuel as useful. :o --- lets put gas on the space shuddel and see how that would work hahaha Mike - out side the box
Thank you , I had to delete what I said . You know the old Iron in my head kicking in sometimes .
Thanks Coach.
And with that new Meyer's cell thingy it could be realized :D I'm planning on converting my 95' cutlass to an HHO vehicle. I'm just not sure how much hydrogen you need to run a 3.1 liter engine...
P.S. How are we going to find out the redline for this bad boy? :D I can make a rev limiter circuit for it :D
Yes when we get the opto couplers designed for the ignition system , just interrupt the coupler drivers to the pickups. RPM are now limited !Ã, I'm not sure what the output HP might be at this time , but it should be fairly good seeing that the toque is clean at 95 % This small motor may not be large enought for that application but we're starting out with the smaller unit and will make a larger one in good time when we get all the bugs worked out. I'm looking at putting it in a motor cycle trike vehicle to test with. be patient and thing will go faster to building this motor, if you have electronic skills that helps us all out or you may have other skills we could all use. welcome to this thread. Mike
I've always wanted to build an internal combustion engine. I don't have the money to buy ANYTHING right now, but once I do I'll start working on this and my other projects as well.
P.S. The limiter circuit should be fairly trivial, once I get a method to measure the amount of turns per second or ignition firings per second. Gotta choose one or the other. I could have it open the circuit or pull it to ground when the limiter senses that the rpm is too high. What do you think?
Hey M.C.
here is a preliminary model, uploaded is .mfx, don,t have time to convert to 3ds.
you can take it apart in openfx by using the object command and clicking on an item,
then hit the hide selected feature (just in case you don,t use openfx), this way you
render images in anyway you want and point out changes or draw them in..
First of many :) It,s late and i need to get some sleep, zzzzzzzzz
Goodnight
Dirt
8)
Nice rendering Joe , the cam is right and the pistons are good , no spark plugs , and i need to send you the piston connecting rod profiles. at the bottomÃ, (BDC) of the cyclindersÃ, are the turbo tubes (air intake) , only 1 exhaust valve (each cycilinder) in the exhaust head (end caps). This is a start up build in progress , Thank you MikeÃ, Ã, Ã, Ã, @ joe A cut in half model would be better at this time . Thanks for the great effort !! :)
Hello M.C.
Actually The sparkplugs are the injectors, I couldn,t tell where you wanted them.
just render a few images and hand draw the changes needed and I will change it.
Appreciated
dirt
up date>Ã, I chated with the kind folks at EmachineShop.com so if you go to there web site you can download the free software and use it . There is also an online price list file for shop work. I'm still haveing problems drawing the cam rotor in cad this part is the hardest to do so i'm trying to tackel this one first. I'f you know any real good CAD folks that would help in speeding this part along. I will be publishing the connecting rods soon and the oil pumping system . this is an intrgeral part of the connecting rod and the tolerences are important to it's funtion. Next week I go to the electric motor rebuild place to pick up the 86c frame ends (these are totaly enclosed type motor end frames, used in explosion proof type E motors) and get the shaft and berrings . I have a 50 ton press avalible to me for pressing off the amature and then i'll get the mesurments for the rotor cam , this may very on the shaft size , so when you get the CAD program the shaft size will very to the motor you use and compensate that , eather with the shop or change the specs on the program.
well MIKE
verry nice work
i saw you posted your rotor b4 in the lotr thred a long time ago it has made me wonder what the hell it was but now i know if there is any way i could aid you on this project im all 4 it
great work mike
william
Up date >, I have come up with the concoidal push from the rotor pushing the piston rod to the side trying to rotate the rod, this will stablize the rod and stay stright to the cam rotor, I will publish this soon and get some CAD files on this part with the the oil injectors built in the rod guides. the oil pump was internal but have decided to move this assembely for maintance puropses and easyer to work on in case of failuer. I think you will like this double screw oil pump , easy to rebuild and has a high ware factor ( no friction operation ) it should be able to maitain the 80 lb PSI continous pressure the internal pump that each piston rod has is the high pressure side of the pump asssemebly. Mike ok Cad guys we need some help here. Thank you this is a group effort !
UP DATE>Ã, here the drawings on the Piston rod and slide block.Ã, The bearings are not drawn in yet dew to the type I'm going to use at this time. The oil lines are not posted yet , to feed the slide and piston. if you would like to know please contact me. other than the Cam Rotor This is the second part that needs to be made , you will need 6 of these units. MikeÃ,Â
More Drawings HPM - I'm still trying to learn the new CAd programÃ, Ã, Ã, Ã, the rotor cam in the center is the pink foam cam as in the first posts on page 1 the bearings ride on the flat side of the rotor cam , in the drawings the bearings have not been drawn in , look at the bottom- side view drawing and see the rotor cam the bearings get bolted in the piston rod ( one piston on each end ) and ride on the Cam face. The slide bar, the piston rod mounts in keeps the mecanisim from trying to roll over at higher speeds , thats at the top of the drawing and side veiw. As the piston fires it puts pressure on the rotor cam and makes the rotor turn.
Up Date> I'm building a Proto type model out of plexi glass so everyone can see how this things works and give you a better understanding of the mechanical aspects. most parts are done , hopefully by this week end I'll be assembling the motor and have photos of the parts and put together some of the assembly. The bearings I have will be the right size and due to an order screwup I'll be using the single row bearing instead of the double row , which is what is needed. Bearing No#6201 open (no shield). You will need 12 of these , I'll post these along with the other parts on a list soon. Thank you Mike
? WELL WHERE IS IT? !!!! DID EVERYONE STOP WORKING ON THE HHO POWERED MOTOR?
Thanks for asking I just had to many irons in the fire and had to scale back a little till some things get done , But still tinker with it. need a cad guy to do a dx file of the rotor to send to a machine shop and thats the first big step.
hi,
Just looked this thread, have not read all comments, perhaps someone mentioned about ... may be ...
But why not to use car Air Conditioner compressor - I have took apart one Japan made one - exact the same design you are planning,
It need to be hardly rebuilt of course but at least main parts are well machined ... DIY those parts ... Im not sure you can do it well.
Cheers,
khabe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate_engine
An alternate design replaces the plate with a sine-shaped cam, and is thus known as a cam engine ... air conditioner pumps
prilliant old designs about http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/unusualICeng/axial-ICeng/axial-IC.htm
videos http://www.axialvectorengine.com/