Just starting the thread, but I hope to help lead it also...
http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/products/large-cell/bcap3000.asp
The 440v US power mains can deliver up to 50 amps before blowing a breaker, so using resistance and a step down transformer people should be able to get a charge in the garage. The trick will be using high farads at lower voltages. example: 125V-3000F cap bank charging off the grid @ 125v and 0.01 Ohms resistance, the cap bank would take about 2.5 minutes to charge and have a maximum power dissipation of 1,562,500 Watts. That sounds like quite a efficient electric scooter ride to me...
I'm seriously considering buying a few of these 2.7V@3000F ultra caps this week, but I would need the help of some of our electronics gurus to design some of the the needed electronics. I'm thinking 5 caps in series for 13.5V@3000F. Anyone interested in starting a cooperative EV thread? We would need to design a self regulating charging system, and a POT controlled discharge system. Maybe even a regenerative braking system in the future... Anyone interested? I would really like to have a 20 horse electric car out on the road some day soon! Or a one horse electric bike at the very least!
~Dingus Mungus
opps
I payed 100$ a piece for my bcap 3000s and they are worth every penny , I hear the prices are going to drop soon too. These have been banked with H16 series Trogan batteries in the MotorCoach. This is all charged controlled with 2 OutBack MX60 and distribution/inverter setup.
These kinds of caps are the future when it comes to energy storage .
Someday I would like to put together something like this but with caps
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/
http://www.evdeals.com/BidwellSecrets.htm
good resource for parts and such
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/
this is the project for now. Shwinn1000
You have no idea how releiving it is to know you're on the project already IH...
;D
I'm waiting for the coming price fall myself...
I'm thinking about buying 5 of the bc3000 caps to run in series for a 13.5v max output for running a 12V brushless DC motor on a bike, but between the charging regulator and and propper pot control of the voltage to the motor I'm quite worrried about ruining expensive components and/or dieing. Anyone who can help design a (cap bank moddable) charge controller and/or speed controller system could really help those of us who are not a electrical engineers power through this project quickly...
That and I'm going to crush some cans... 3000F@13.5V dumping through 3 turns of copper tube makes quite the scene.
~Dingus Mungus
If you are going to build a bike , this is the motor to use . the cost is high but let me tell you there is no better in this size motor. Here are some links for bike and scooter stuff. This has its own controller and it will not burn with caps. I have fully tested it with bcap3000s . My goal is 2 of these on the scooter on a dual mount.
http://www.thesuperkids.com/600wahspsuto.html
http://www.thesuperkids.com/dumoplkitfor.html
Good link for bikes
http://www.evdeals.com/Default.htm
If you like hub motors these are very good
http://www.evdeals.com/HubMain.htm
you can buy controllers for about 30 bucks
and 10 bucks for a throttle .Here
http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES
Ok now for brush motors you use a hall effect and for brushless motor you use 5k pot thottle
Wow those kits looks great! Especially if it's all compatible with the ultracap storage system.
Yeah... The easy pot control plus efficiency is why I'm leaning twards a brushless motor. Will any basic 5k pot be able to handle the possible 30amp+ loads? Also how did you build your charging unit? My biggest worry with these things is overcharging... and the crazy POP that would follow.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
~Dingus Mungus
the pot does not handle the load the controller does . Get a controller for the motor rating .
If you go brushless the controller is already part of the deal you dont need to buy a controller at least from what I have seen.
Charging, they charge like a battery only taking what you give , and like a battery you can give to much . In this case same as a battery it will gas and pop it will go.
So, Make sure the changer has shut down.
I also use a battery with the circuit . long as the voltage cut out is matched like used in charger to battery there is no problem .So if you do a 13 volt system then a car charger with shut off will work if you go with 48 volts like I have on the scooter you need a charger for 48 volts with cut out.
The main resign why I use a battery is because when a cap spends its charge it is done ,dead.
A lead acid battery on the other hand drops slow and still maintains a small charge. so when the caps die you will know you are only running on a low charge battery and need to get to a power source .
If you get into rapid charging, this is where you need to do some testing mainly keeping tabs on heat as you charge. Here you might see how NiCad quick charging is done this type of charger does not shut down on volts but shuts down on heat . Or some use a timer which is dangerous in a ultra cap situation. I would not push the rapid charge thing as there is no need on a bike or scooter . In a car however it is a must. The best place to sense heat on a cap is on the negative post just like you might find in a Nicad pack but it is the negative casing on nicads that heats quickly ..
EDITED
Hi Dingus
Some thoughts for you to consider:
5 ea 2.7volt/3000f caps in series would give you 13.5 volts at 600f. Remember caps in series are divided by the number of caps. The only way this could stay at 3000f would be to have a matrix or assemble them in a 3x3 fashion thus requiring a total of 9 caps to be at 3000f.
Considering the 5 in series though here are the numbers:
e= v squared x capacitance in farads all divided by 2.
e= 13.5 squared x 600 /2
e=182 x 600 /2
e= 218400 watt seconds.
Now if you are using a 12 volt motor that draws say 8 amps or approx 100 watts.
Divide 100 into 218400 for 2184 watt seconds of use.
This device would run for 36 minutes.
Employing the matrix would give you your 3000 f but then you are charging 9 caps instead of 3. Also I'm not sure what 12 volts at 8 amps would really do for you in terms of overall performance.
Hope this helps.
Bill
What are the size of this capacitor?
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
Theres a lot of stuff to buy... Unfortunately I'm hoping to only have to buy the caps new.
I hope those caps really fall in price soon, as a 48volt system won't be cheap enough for me yet.
When it does get cheap enough though, I'll be driving to work on 8 cents a kW @ 70-80% efficiency!
Thanks for all the valuable input IH! I hope others will catch the hint and start evaluating a EV for themselves.
~Dingus Mungus
EDIT: Doh! Mahess is right... I forgot these weren't batteries! LOL! I'm still evaluating how to go about setting this up. Hopefully this thread will help people get some ideas and basic designs out there for the home replicator to build. Sorry for my calc errors fellas...
Good to see ya again Mahess!!!
I missed your calculations . Sorry I did not catch it for ya.
I have not done 48 volts in caps yet only the 12 volt system in the MotorHome
They have eliminated all the serging I was getting before I installed them in the Buss.
For a scooter it is bottom end torque I am looking for and not long run time . Caps over battery's are a must. This also helps keeps the battery in good shape taking the hard hot amps off the caps in hole shots and such.
They are about 5.5" x2.250"
What do you think about taking a used Hybrid like a Toyota Prius and making it run on these? What I mean is to make the vehicle run off the ultracaps in EV mode and maybe never having to use the ICE. I know there are companies that convert regular Hybrids to "Plug-In-Hybrids" but I don't think any of them are using caps.
I dont believe you could run a car on ultracaps caps alone . Maybe the new ceramic stuff but they are not out yet.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7033406.PN.&OS=PN/7033406&RS=PN/7033406
I have been watching that copmany (Eestor) and waiting for some news. Hope their product lives up to all the claims.
I've been evaluating EV's too. This I just posted on the steorn forum
""I'll show you my calculations, which are based on some numbers found on the interweb.
Zinc air Fuel cell - 200wh/kg - 100mi range = 48.38kWh's needed - 242kg or 535.7lbs of storage.
200mi range = 96.76kWh's needed - 483.8kg or 1071.4lbs of storage.
EEstor - 350wh/kg - 200mi range = 276.5kg or 609.6lbs of storage needed.
using 483.8W taken to travel 1mi. Recharge times don't matter much, just lift the storage pack out, and replace it with a charged one.
EV energy cost per mile is about 1 5th the cost of gasoline energy per mile. With the rist of peak oil, or war with Iran looming! ""
I think everyone is missing the potentail of zinc air fuel cells here. They're not as good as eestor's but they're over half as good. Over twice as good as the best batteries. I think the best batteries have a 80wh/kg of storage.
www.poweraircorp.com
The other companies that make these are mostly asian. They're websites make them less easy to trust then powerair's. But look at what their cliaming, www.evionyx.com/scooters.htm 500wh/kg! that's much better then eestor's. Powerair is trustworthy though, they have managment that left Ballard, the largest hydrogen full cell company in the world. They also got a former CEO of a muti billion dollar car company in the US to come out of retirement to be their CEO, he's now a consultant though. I researched them when I researched energy stocks, no I don't own any stocks in them, I'm not trying to pump, they're a bad buy anyways, never buy an OTC stock, or any USA exchange penny stock, scamers sell shares on those markets, and never deliever them, their counterfiet shares, which block these small companies from investment.
More
http://www.arotech.com/pr/2006/pr22032006.shtml
http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c1.html
http://www.electric-fuel.com/evtech/index.shtml
I found the page and the place I got mine if this helps any.
http://www.prestostore.com/catalog.php/tecategroup.com/pd359660