I mentioned in an earlier post about using the existing fuel rails for introducing the hydroxy into the engine, and the potential risk of explosive gases building up under the hood. Another thing about using the fuel rail is that it would possibly prevent hydroxy from getting into places that it would not be best to get into, like the brake booster and other important devices powered by engine vacuum. I'm just posing this question to see what it would take to use the fuel rail to inject the hydroxy into the engine without the risk of the hydroxy escaping the fuel rail and building up under the hood.
G'day Draco,
I don't think the dangers are anywhere near as acute as you seem to think. Transporting hydrogen gas over long distances with very few safeguards was common practice until very recently.
Perhaps you are to young to remember the old coal gas works that were around until the introduction of natural gas. Most people know about the gasification of coal, hardly anyone knows that the gas that was delivered to the consumer was a mixture of coalgas and hydrogen. The way it was done was like this.
Once the coal in the gasification chamber was on operating temperature, i.e. red hot, the gas developed and because there was no oxygen to burn it, it could now be piped to the consumer. In an effort to increase gas production without an increase in coal consumption water was sprayed into the glowing coals. Because of the high temperatures and the reducing atmosphere inside the reactor the water was dissociated and the resultant gas was a mixture of coalgas and "watergas" as it was called then. It made the mixture far more explosive than the coalgas on its own but it appeared to be quite safe to do as no extra safety measures were deemed to be necessary.
I have worked with hydrogen a lot and I can say from experience that it is no more dangerous than other gases. Leaking fuel lines are always a dangerous thing, petrol dripping on a hot engine will go off just as easily as hydrogen will, if it gets ignited.
Hans von Lieven
Yeah, that's way before my time. Being born in the late '70s has me missing a lot of the stuff from previous eras. The danger i was talking about was when then engine was turned off and any hydrogen that is in the lines when the engine is killed will stay in the fuel rail and possibly leak out into the manifold where it can escape into the under-hood area. I would have the generator in the engine compartment so the hydrogen will not have far to travel to be introduced into the engine.
Either that Draco or a small valve in the line very close to the engine.
Hans
what is more risky, having hydroxy or fuel vapor in brake booster and/or under the hood, and/or etc... ?
There is a device in cars, i think called "vapors canister".
But that is more for an attempt to recuperate the vapors than a protection.
A leak in a full rail is as dangerous with fuel as with hydroxy.
However gases are more prone to leak than fluids.
Be sure to use the proper material for feeding when dealing with gases.
Both situations are very dangerous. Hydroxy in the booster can cause the failure of your brakes, and underhood buildup of the gas can case an explosion if a stray spark occurs anywhere in the underhood area. The leakage of gas is what concerns me. I don't want either of those situations to occur and cause any kind of damage or injury. I posted this thread to help get information to make it so i can inject the hydroxy into the engine of the ICE w/o drilling any more holes in the intake manifold or any of the ducts or line leading up to the manifold.
forgive me if this is not really on topic
i am very new to the hydrogen as fuel idea but from what i got out of this video i found on youtube hydrogen loses it flamability far quicker than gasoline, so i do not believe you would have a very high chance of a leak causing problems for anything more than the loss of pressure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdV9881tMFw
correct me if im wrong by all means :)
I know I'm bumping an older thread, but hansvonlieven makes a good point of putting a valve that would close when power is cut off. That may prevent hydroxy from escaping into the engine compartment. Watching videos on youtube and google video, I've learned that hydrogen being such a light gas, it dissapates pretty quickly when released from pressure. It's also highly reactive, so it doesn't stay as pure hydrogen gas.
other thing u can think about is existing CNG/LPG installations.There are plenty vehicles running on gaseous fuels and there are already systems developed and road tested/legally approved for years.Just buy parts from it and adjust to your needs.Simple I and II generation LPG installations are relatively cheap like 250-350E,but you don't need the tank and some other parts so cost should be lower.U have there electromagnetic valves shut down when engine ignition is killed.U have systems to inject gaseous LPG of liquid one,vacuum systems.There is plenty of them. Lovato is an Italian producent of those used widely in Europe.Electronic to controll it is all there.Just hit google.
Quote from: Creativity on April 18, 2008, 05:46:18 PM
other thing u can think about is existing CNG/LPG installations.There are plenty vehicles running on gaseous fuels and there are already systems developed and road tested/legally approved for years.Just buy parts from it and adjust to your needs.Simple I and II generation LPG installations are relatively cheap like 250-350E,but you don't need the tank and some other parts so cost should be lower.U have there electromagnetic valves shut down when engine ignition is killed.U have systems to inject gaseous LPG of liquid one,vacuum systems.There is plenty of them. Lovato is an Italian producent of those used widely in Europe.Electronic to controll it is all there.Just hit google.
My grandfather had an old John Deere 2010 tractor that was powered by LPG, that went to my parents when my grandfather passed away. I was looking at a web site that sold kits to convert a normal gas powered small engine to use LPG. It also had kits to allow a person to use a duel-fuel system. The kits I saw on that site had a vacuum powered cutoff switch that would stop the fuel flow into the engine when it lost vacuum. I found the URL its http://www.propanecarbs.com (http://www.propanecarbs.com). Its out of Garretson, Kentucky.
this LPG systems are also intended as dual fuel.I run like this my old Audi 100 ;) i have gasoline injection,and old LPG instalation (vacuum).So those systems are fully "add-on".It just cuts the electricity to the fuel pomp when using LPG and it cuts the LPG when you use gasoline.Nice and safe.
You have to pay a road tax on any fuels you use to drive on public roads. You automatically pay road taxes on gasoline and diesel, but you have to pay if you use LPG or any other different fuels.