This quote was taken from: http://k12.magnet.fsu.edu/mediacenter/news/pressreleases/2007august7.html
"Superconducting magnets require little or no electrical power to run once they are brought up to full field."
I have also read that somewhere else that superconducting magnets will allow for "almost" perpetual machines to be made.
There was no explantion of how these almost perpetual machines was working or designed.
But if a superstrong magnetic field that requires almost no energy is used in a puls motor that turns a generator
that delivers lots of power out, why shouldn't we be able to close the loop and get a real perpetual machine?
Something is fishy here. Almost no energy in but lots of energy out but still we are told that the loop can't be closed??????????
If possible there should be attemts made to use a supercooled motor /generator to generate electricity.
For the moment let's disregard from use of more cooling refrigant. Once cooled it does not really require any more coolant.
I'm just looking for an answer on the closed loop question!
Does somebody care to explain this for me!!!
At what temperature does it run at? Room temperature? it's not mentioned in the article.
The temp is very low, approx -160 degree Celcius. That's equal to -256 F.
I'm just pointing to the fact that little or no power is needed to create supermagnets that can be turned on/off to make a motor.
Forget the money part, I'm just looking to close the loop and get a super cooled self running motor/generator setup.
I'm not interested in the whole picture, just the closed loop. Is it possible or not.
Superconducting magnets have been around for a long time. When they say little or no power I really believe they
mean almost no power.
Yes I'm sure it's true the supermagnets need little or no power. But I wonder what the power requirement is to maintain those temperatures. That power of course will have to be taken into account in closing the loop.
The power needed to maintain the low temperature is how good the isolation is.
And that is pretty good with today standards. And the setup is totaly leak proof.
Once cooled you don't need to add any more coolant for a long long long time.
It's just the small amount of electricity needed to run the magnets that makes the puls motor, that's added.
So far the issue is to close the loop and get it running all by itself.
I'm not interested if it economical to supercool a motor. I just want a closed loop.
In all history nobody have ever been able to close-loop a motor/generator into self running mode.
But can it be done using supercooled magnets. Please don't take into account any economical issues.
It's the self runner that matters. Can it run by itself while producing excess power.
I can see the possibilities but the motor would have to be constructed in something like a vacuum flask, then there is the problem of getting the motion external to the flask, this could possibly be done with strong magnets, a set on the inside of the flask and a set on the outside, one thing is for certain, if you bring a spindle out from the flask you will create a conductor for temperature and the coolant will soon begin to warm up.
The US Navy is developing some interesting stuff with their new DDX Class
destroyer: http://www.ga.com/atg/EMS/homopolar.php
Paul.
Quote from: Honk on September 30, 2007, 09:16:08 AM
In all history nobody have ever been able to close-loop a motor/generator into self running mode.
I don't think you can claim to know "all history". Science has repeatedly adjusted the definition of perpetual motion. Cant win? Change the rules of the game!
Yes, devices that self-run in a closed system are hard to find. But the main problem is that those close systems really don't exist. If they did exist however the energy available inside the system can be used an infinite number of times.
Cox clock, the Atmos clock the Beryl clock. Self powered devices have been build you see? Tesla build a really big one powered by water naturally running uphill.
There are a lot of them, solar doesn't run out, wind never depletes.
Lord Kelvin said heat engines and perpetual motion machines are impossible. Now you've added neutrinos to the mix, heat gradients, wind etc etc Those things are always available they are part of the open system. Can use them as perpetually as you desire.
A barometer is a perpetual motion apparatus unless you change the definitions. It will only take a bit of engineering to build a big motor/generator. Take a few thousand kg mercury and you can power a house. Must now try make it smaller and less aggressive.
no effort = no result
OK, I cannot be more sure than the rest of the scientific world that nobody have ever closed a loop AND produced excess energy.
There are many near perpetual objects in nature but none that can produce excess energy for ever in a closed system.
The planets, wind, solar power are near perpetual objects but they will fade away eventually.
This due to their big heavy duty mass. If they where just small objects about the size of a football you can be sure that any
load would drain and stop them almost at once. Perhaps not the small sun, if possible to exist in that size = a white dwarf.
But, If there is a chans to close a loop it might be due to super cooling when there is no resistance that consumes power.
Or someother way that nobody have ever thought of. As long as it doesn't conflict the laws of nature. And I do belive in those.
The wind is caused, to my knowledge, ultimately by the sun. The motion of the planets are just examples of the left over energy imput from the intial "big bang" or whatever event you want to call it, with very high mass in a very low friction environment.
I think I see what you are getting at. Use whatever money, energy, etc to construct a superconducting magnet motor and see if you can get o.u. Then, back engineer it to reduce the costs...whatever. Interesting proposal. My gut feeling is that, one could get closer with superconducting magnets than with our usual assortment, but, I'll bet we would get ever so close to the edge, but not cross it. Maybe I am wrong. I base this on nothing in particular except the way nature always seems to want "balance" and equilibrium. I would be very interested in your results if you try to do this. I think, for a short term experiment, the costs would not be that high. So what if you can only super cool them for 30 minutes or so. I think you would find your answers and, if it works, then concentrate on spending more money for better insulated containers, etc. Very interesting idea.
Bill
Yes, you are right.
I was thinking of a pulse motor that uses electromagnets that attracts a silicon steel stator.
Such a motor can be pretty strong but it doesn't require much more current in the coils when loaded down.
But if the coils creating the magnetism were supercooled then in theory it should take almost no current to attract the rotor.
The whole motor doesn't need to be supercooled, just the coils, and it might be cheaper and simpler to make it this way.
So, almost no power is needed to reach a high field in a pulse motor that is using supercooled coils and it can deliver great
torque and speed. The shaft is connected to a generator that delivers plenty of current output.
Almost no power in and plenty of power out!!! Why shouldn't this work in theory? Where's the catch???