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For those who may still be puzzled as to why UEC has not released any information that may lead to the controller patent numbers, consider the following:

Anyone that has watched the videos and was "on the ball" at the time, would know that there are at least two sections where the audio track was edited to remove something Steven said. The edits were intentional, and the "something", although likely not all-revealing, obviously contained clues that would greatly aid anyone seeking to crack the TPU's secret. It is unfortunate that these edits were done, but  it was obviously in UEC's best interest according to their game/business plan.

The available videos have obviously been severely degraded in quality...again on purpose.

Do you see a pattern forming?

Next are the patents. Yes patents are public domain (we all understand that), but that doesn't mean they have to be "announced" publicly, or assigned to someone or some party that with a little research, would lead us to their discovery. This apparently is what UEC is doing, or not doing as is the case here. They are purposely withholding any information that could lead to the discovery of the patents, and imo, anyone who thinks that the patents would be worthless, or of little value, only need to realize the fact that UEC doesn't want them known, and it must be for a very good reason.

So UEC has gone out of their way to:

1) Edit out clues uttered by Steven Mark in the videos.
2) Severely degrade the quality of the videos.
3) Purposely withhold information that could lead to the discovery of the patents.
4) Put a kibosh on what Steven may discuss publicly about the TPU device.

Why have they done all this?

Two reasons immediately come to mind:

1) To protect UEC's IP investment.
2) Because the device's technology is perhaps new and novel, but not that difficult or complicated.

It can't be that difficult or complicated. LOOK AT THE DEVICES! I would even go out on a limb and say that most folks are achieving overkill in terms of complexity and "drive power".

My intention here is not to poo poo UEC, but rather to point out the possible reasons for the actions they have taken regarding the TPU and the lack and quality of information surrounding it. Hopefully it will also put a damper on the constant and mis-guided re-discoveries of the so-called Steven Mark patents.

Cheers,
Darren

 i have to agree , from watching the videos over and over the device does not look complicated at all, yet in the forums ive never seem so much complication going on, no im not saying i have the know how to make one :P , im just saying it looks simple but it seems to be being made out to be very very complicated.

z_p_e

Changing the videos. Do you know after what date. I have copies of the google videos dated back to Nov 9th, 2006.

If it is possible to identify the date of such changes, you can also presume any hints he gave here after that date would be more intentional dissinformation.

Things like on the UEC video he says " I'm turning on the primary frequency, and now the secondary frequency". But to the forum he says there are three frequencies saying "apply the first, the second then the third".

wattsup.

I have no doubts about the authenticity of SM and the TPU, therefore I am not the best person to be discussing "fake" theories with.

In regards to the use of the "primary" and "secondary" frequencies, I've mentioned this before, but no one seems to catch on.

The minimum number of collectors for a working TPU is one. The first TPU1 unit has one collector, one feedback coil. The TPU2 unit has 4 collectors and 4 feedback coils (4 TPU1's integrated into one package). The cut TPU had 2 collectors, but I am uncertain of how many feedback coils it had. The larger 17" TPU most likely has 2 collectors as well, judging by the fact that two feedback coils are present (the two small toroids).

So the TPU17 contains 2 separate TPU units in one package. Each operates at its own set of 3 frequencies. All 6 frequencies are related. This is for better control of higher power units. Primary frequencies = F1, F2, F3; Secondary frequencies = F4, F5, F6.

You could have as many collector coils or complete separate units that you like in one package, but it would become increasingly difficult to control. 3 units is probably a practical maximum, but certainly not required to make it operational.

Darren hi,

I still think it all boils down to knowing what the famous kick exactly is. We know we have to create hundreds of thousands of them but still don't know what they are! Also we almost know for sure that they are created by the rotating magnetic field at near light speed. Is this what the kick is? The light speed magnetic field "kicking" the free electrons forward through the collector?? 
Once we know WHAT it is we probably know what to do to reproduce them in mass numbers.....

regards

Robert 

Hi Robert.

I agree with you on all counts, but consider this:

1) Are the kicks created by the RMF, or is the RMF created by the kicks?

2) The kicks and RMF are not necessarily co-dependent ;)

Quote from: z_p_e on October 02, 2007, 12:17:32 PM
Hi Robert.

I agree with you on all counts, but consider this:

1) Are the kicks created by the RMF, or is the RMF created by the kicks?

2) The kicks and RMF are not necessarily co-dependent ;)

Hi Darren,

I'm pretty sure it is like the RMF creates the kicks. I say this because SM tells us how IT IS possible to create a RMF with the right combination of frequencies. That basically tells us that is what the three frequwencies are for; creating the RMF. Therefore it only leaves the option of the kicks beiong created from the RMF. It also matches better with the examples of the magnet swiping over a wire that SM has given.

Robert

Quote from: z_p_e on October 01, 2007, 11:32:43 PM
Why have they done all this?

Two reasons immediately come to mind:

1) To protect UEC's IP investment.
2) Because the device's technology is perhaps new and novel, but not that difficult or complicated.

It can't be that difficult or complicated. LOOK AT THE DEVICES! I would even go out on a limb and say that most folks are achieving overkill in terms of complexity and "drive power".

Cheers,
Darren

Quote from: z_p_e on October 02, 2007, 08:32:34 AM
wattsup.

I have no doubts about the authenticity of SM and the TPU, therefore I am not the best person to be discussing "fake" theories with.

In regards to the use of the "primary" and "secondary" frequencies, I've mentioned this before, but no one seems to catch on.

The minimum number of collectors for a working TPU is one. The first TPU1 unit has one collector, one feedback coil. The TPU2 unit has 4 collectors and 4 feedback coils (4 TPU1's integrated into one package). The cut TPU had 2 collectors, but I am uncertain of how many feedback coils it had. The larger 17" TPU most likely has 2 collectors as well, judging by the fact that two feedback coils are present (the two small toroids).

So the TPU17 contains 2 separate TPU units in one package. Each operates at its own set of 3 frequencies. All 6 frequencies are related. This is for better control of higher power units. Primary frequencies = F1, F2, F3; Secondary frequencies = F4, F5, F6.

You could have as many collector coils or complete separate units that you like in one package, but it would become increasingly difficult to control. 3 units is probably a practical maximum, but certainly not required to make it operational.

Nice synopsis...

I agree with your points, especially the 'drive power' one...

I like this re-assesment of the TPU Darren.  We need to do that once in a while.

We need to step back and re-assess what we know.

We need to step back and re-assess the theories.

We need to step back and re-view the videos.

Periodicaly!!!   LOL  :)

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 02, 2007, 05:42:36 PM
I like this re-assesment of the TPU Darren.  We need to do that once in a while.

We need to step back and re-assess what we know.

We need to step back and re-assess the theories.

We need to step back and re-view the videos.

Periodicaly!!!   LOL  :)

EM

I've been doing that for some years now, LOL...

One day my friends, we will solve it...

Surely from this it would make sense to try to replicate the simplest one coil / one collector tpu first, since it should be easier than the later versions which, apart from the 17", appear to be modular progressions? Replicate the simple one first and the others will follow...

I do not want to distract from the technical discussion too much but...

I would also ask, since I do not know of the source of these grainy videos, were they released by UEC, and if so for what purpose as they do not appear to be developing the tpu? If they were not released by UEC then who released them and do they not have access to the high quality originals? Did anyone try to contact the source when they were released?

Also no-one still has proven that any patents exist, hidden or otherwise, SM is a shady character working with the lab assistant who ripped of John Searle, so his word is worth nothing when he says there are patents! If it is replicated will UEC not be forced to reveal the patents, if they exist, in order to defend their rights to the TPU? Since they are not developing the TPU, why would they even bother to patent it, which would cost a lot of money, if their intention is to kill it patents would not really help at this stage...

Also am I correct in stating that no one has even proven the existence of UEC as a corporate entity? Might it not have been something setup by SM to attract investors, or even a scam for that matter?

Acerzw

Can we summarise the know facts about the simple tpu in order to clarify and focus the replications efforts? I would be tempted to try replicating it given a decent list of knows or good guesses to start from...

Acerzw

In one of the videos,  SM says that the unit vibrates at 7.3 Hz

Can you tell a 7.1 Hz vibration from a 7.4 Hz vibration?

I can't, and neither can SM, so why does he say 7.3 Hz?

Possibilities:

1)   He measured it with a scope/transducer, etc..

2)   He quotes the number since it's the Schumann resonance (or close to it)  AND HIS TPU WAS DESIGNED TO TAP THAT FREQUENCY


EM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 09:58:05 AM
In one of the videos,  SM says that the unit vibrates at 7.3 Hz

Can you tell a 7.1 Hz vibration from a 7.4 Hz vibration?

I can't, and neither can SM, so why does he say 7.3 Hz?

Possibilities:

1)   He measured it with a scope/transducer, etc..

2)   He quotes the number since it's the Schumann resonance (or close to it)  AND HIS TPU WAS DESIGNED TO TAP THAT FREQUENCY


EM

I agree on those points too, 100%. Plus, considering marco's dancing magnet at 7.8Hz, and the references to the Schumann at 7.8Hz, one has to wonder why SM said 7.3Hz...

Yet in still, he must have designed it or measured it to know it is vibrating at such a value...

Considering his 'tuning off' talk, one might suggest that 7.3Hz is sufficiently 'tuned off' of the direct Schumann at 7.8Hz...

Then again, he says it VIBRATES PHYSICALLY at 7.3Hz, whereas in the other videos when he says 5000Hz/6000Hz, he is talking about it's output being DC with a slight frequency of 5000Hz/6000Hz. This means that the other devices could very well be VIBRATING PHYSICALLY at 7.3Hz too...

So, the physical side-effect of SM's 'conversion process' seems very close to the 'enhanced' physical vibration in macro's magnets nearer 7.8Hz.

I am certain SM measured 7.3 Hz, and was not saying this because it happens to be close to the SR.

I like Marco, and respect his work, but I am not convinced his magnet demo illustrates tapping the SR. There have been no replications I know of supporting this notion, and Marco himself has not demonstrated the same effect and frequency with different mass magnets. Until such time, I don't buy into this tapping effect at all.

It is curious however that the 7.3 Hz and 5-6 kHz frequencies are specifically quoted by SM. Clues from his material does not suggest these frequencies are applied by the controller. Perhaps they manifest as an artifact of the actual applied frequencies and how they interact in the coils.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 03, 2007, 12:26:03 PM
I am certain SM measured 7.3 Hz, and was not saying this because it happens to be close to the SR.

I like Marco, and respect his work, but I am not convinced his magnet demo illustrates tapping the SR. There have been no replications I know of supporting this notion, and Marco himself has not demonstrated the same effect and frequency with different mass magnets. Until such time, I don't buy into this tapping effect at all.

Agreed, a test must be done first to duplicate marco's results, and a tests done with differing sized magnets to confirm the 7.8Hz effect isn't based on that particular setup.

Quote
It is curious however that the 7.3 Hz and 5-6 kHz frequencies are specifically quoted by SM. Clues from his material does not suggest these frequencies are applied by the controller. Perhaps they manifest as an artifact of the actual applied frequencies and how they interact in the coils.

I agree about this also, the 5-6khz frequencies, like the low Hz vibration, could all just be artifacts from the conversion process which uses totally different frequencies.

i have seen it a dozen times in dozen diffrent setups.
it is like a crank shaft with some resistance but when you feed it with the right frequency, it moves more freely like if you put a drop of grease on it.

I simply cannot tape everything i do, it is not that hard to do these simple but intresting experiments, and if i am able to generate these events, so can you,or anybody who is willing to see....

Steven sais the unit vibrates at 7 point 3 cycles a second.
In the other video he states when the frequency's "slap" together, it has an effect.

He was a Speaker designer, take in account the cork like substance it could be used to allow the coils to vibrate at such low frequency's.
we dont need a cone, because we cannot hear that low and it isn't a speaker....or is it?
Then we move to an ultra low frequency microphone.
If we cancel the flux, or demodulate the signals so to speak, the outcoming wave will be the sound which was already present...
if we amplify this sound and feed it in reverse or out of phase, back into the system it will build up a resonance with the sound which was/is already there.
Steven once said "It should be a lot easer to use tubes to strike the right cord and
develop the right sound to make the best sound."

Take a simple voice coil, look at it as if it was the collector.
how can we produce power from a voice coil?
we need to move the cone, but it seems there isn't any.....
So we have to move the magnet , or the field.
What about a magnetic cone then...
If the cone is magnetic ,not paper or whatever they make them these day's, the frequency would still be dependent on the circumference, but it's medium would not be air, it would be magnetic fields.....
Then the microphone would not pick up sound waves but magnetic waves,like the humm.

I am working hard again to finance my next set of experiments and i will try to find a way to record my findings so i can share them with them who are intrested.

Marco.

Marco,

That is a very interesting take on the idea, I think as you are doing it is really important to focus in on the what SM knew, how he thought as an audio engineer. He discovered this by accident, he did not setup complicated rigs at the start with complicated controllers etc. From his writings you get the impression that it was discovered as an artifact  of something else he was doing. He then entered into a long development time to improve the power output performance etc, by analysing the effect and enhancing it by tuning or modifying the coil, finding the best material to use and then designing an effective control circuit and feedback mechanism to make it self-running.

I am convinced the basic effect is simple, was discovered in error during his other projects? I think he stated somewhere what he was working on when he discovered the effect. We need to find out about that and then work from there.

He also states that he has given away too much, enough to build a working replication from his point of view, so in order to make the best use of it we need to adopt his point of view.

In order to try and contribute to this effort and encourage this idea I am going to do a re-working of all the information that he has given on the matter and then post if for all. I have learnt a lot from everyone on here, for which I am very grateful so hopefully I can give a bit back.

Acerzw...

I like what you're saying marco and I tend to agree.

I am conviced of one thing,   SOMETHING RESONATES inside the TPU, hence the need to TUNE to the right frequency.

What that SOMETHING is, we need to find out.  

There can be a lot of things/phenomena and modes that resonate.


1) is it acoustic vibrations?  (like a tunning fork)
2) is it magnetostriction resonance?  (also related to acoustic/mass movement)
3 is it simple magnetic/mass resonance?  (restoring force is magnetic field)
4) is it simple electromagnetic resonance? (like in a LC tank)
5) is it longitudinal electromagnetic standing wave type of resonance? (like in Tesla Coils)
6) etc..

Because the TPU loses it's signal when upside down, it's so obvious that it behaves like an antenna. 
So, an antenna receiving system will need a high Q resonant tank to amplify the small signals.  That's why I say there has to be something that resonates.

Now, if it's not an antenna, and it still resonates (like SM says), then we still need a resonating tank.  Either way, there is a RESONATING TANK of sorts employed by the TPU. 

EM

P.S.   Lately I've been thinking it's MAGNETOSTRICTION.   That's why my TPU uses ..... IRON.... wire  :)

QuoteThe ferromagnetic materials used in magnetostrictive position  sensors are transition metals such as iron, nickel, and cobalt.   In these metals, the 3d electron shell is not completely filled, which allows the formation of a magnetic moment. (i.e., the shells closer to the nucleus than the 3d shell arc complete, and they do not contribute to the magnetic moment). As electron spins are rotated by a magnetic field, coupling between the electron spin and electron orbit causes electron energies to change. The crystal then strains so that electrons at the surface can relax to states of lower energy. When a material has positive magnetostriction, it enlarges when placed in a magnetic field; with negative magnetostriction, the material shrinks. The amount of magnetostriction in base elements and simple alloys is small, on the order of 10-6 m/m.

... and so energy swoops in to our TPU    :)

@EM

When you are working with magnetostriction please watch one thing that is generally missed.

Even if your scope says a higher frequency is there - touch the core with your fingers - see if you can notice movement or mechanical pulsing. You should and that frequency can be thousands of times slower that what the scope says.
If your core is made of multiple elements and you do have the low frequency pulsing you should see the elements (separate wires?) constrict and relax like a jerking muscle.

Steel wire does not do well with this. Better is annealed(Sp?) iron wire. The core material cannot be held too tight in-place. Tight means restricted movement. Too loose and you burn a coil ;)

thanks for that insight BEP

here's a diagram to illustrate one of the phenomena associated with magnetostriction

EM

stay tuned for more....

Quote from: z_p_e on October 03, 2007, 12:26:03 PM
I am certain SM measured 7.3 Hz, and was not saying this because it happens to be close to the SR.

I like Marco, and respect his work, but I am not convinced his magnet demo illustrates tapping the SR. There have been no replications I know of supporting this notion, and Marco himself has not demonstrated the same effect and frequency with different mass magnets. Until such time, I don't buy into this tapping effect at all.

It is curious however that the 7.3 Hz and 5-6 kHz frequencies are specifically quoted by SM. Clues from his material does not suggest these frequencies are applied by the controller. Perhaps they manifest as an artifact of the actual applied frequencies and how they interact in the coils.

to be honest im so blond when it comes to that stuff i have noidea how it might work, but for a simple person like my self , this is what i see. a big circle about 6in acorss(in the small ones), noidea how many layers or wire going around and around, but thats what i think i see, then i think i see wire configed in exact places, one again i have noidea how many turns or where to put them, for me its even hard to tell how many.. maybe 3 or 4 bunches of it( wire wound around the main circle, is what i think i see), but i dont know what im really looking at,.... lets say if i had to take a wild guess, so that some one can answer and i get a better understanding....there is a main circle or wire ....say 6in .. and 3 bunches of wire wraped around that...you some how have the *something* set on each bunch ?to make a freq?...starting with 5khz then 6khz then 7khz ?....and this whips electrons ( or something ) around in the main wire circle to produce useable power?.....
.. if some one wants to draw a pic with lables and arrows for what is *ment* to in *theory* happen .. but its looks so simple in the vids, but i have no clues here.. i need pictures to get it moving in my head:).. Bolt seems to try and bring it back to basics, somtimes i can almost understand him , just sounds way more complicated than what my little brain sees :).

Ok, guys,

This is very important.  I think I found the foundation article for the TPU, related to the theory of Magnetostriction.  

I sure hope this is it !!!  

So many clues relate here.Ã,  Iron wire.Ã,  Vibrations.Ã,  Kicks (as in physical motion), cork to dampen vibrations in the 17" TPU, etc..

I'm starting a massive effort to investigate these principles, for they relate electric waves and mass waves (acousting sound in wire) which travel at approximately 3000 m/s,Ã,  orders of magnitude slower then EM waves, so we can resonate easily at LOW SCHUMANN FREQUENCIES and tap into the earth magnetic field, like SM says.Ã,  :)

Here's a picture from the article, and the article itself.Ã, Ã, 

EM

i have to ask i am new

is that fluorescent light starter.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2579.0.html

and look like there is four or three of then?

Oh, and check out this paragraph:Ã, 

QuoteAn important characteristic of a wire made of a
magnetostrictive material is the Wiedemann effect (see
Figure 2). When an axial magnetic field is applied to a
magnetostrictive wire, and a current is passed through
the wire, a twisting occurs at the location of the axial
magnetic field. The twisting is caused by interaction of
the axial magnetic field, usually from a permanent
magnet, with the magnetic field along the magnetostrictive
wire, which is present due to the current in the wire.
The current is applied as a short-duration pulse, -1 or
2 Ã,µs; the minimum current density is along the center
of the wire and the maximum at the wire surface. This
is due to the skin effect.

and photo #2 is attached.Ã,  Ã,  Notice the AXIAL magnet and the effect it has.

Once again, another clue is here:Ã, Ã,  The aplication of the magnet.

So the TPU could employ TWISTING RESONANCE along a wire length, a core, etc. Or it could just use the longitudinal mode of magnetostriction

EM

REF:Ã,  (http://www.sensorland.com/HowPage024.html)

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
Ok, guys,

This is very important.  I think I found the foundation article for the TPU, related to the theory of Magnetostriciton.  

I sure hope this is it !!!  

So many clues relate here.  Iron wire.  Vibrations.  Kicks (as in physical motion), cork to dampen vibrations in the 17" TPU, etc..

I'm starting a massive effort to investigate these principles, for they relate electric waves and mass waves (acousting sound in wire) which travel at approximately 3000 m/s,  orders of magnitude slower then EM waves, so we can resonate easily at LOW SCHUMANN FREQUENCIES and tap into the earth magnetic field, like SM says.  :)

Here's a picture from the article, and the article itself.   

EM

There you go again EM, lol. Awesome find my friend. Now it looks like 90 ES coupling isn't the only theory I am going to 'borrow' from you, hahah.  :D

This reminds me of something I remember SM saying, I need to look later tonight for the reference, but I think I remember SM saying that he couldn't say exactly what materials or combination of wire types where used in the 'collector'. It sort of seemed at the time that the collector wasn't just 'copper' if you know what I mean, I have to find that reference...

This all seems to fit perfectly though. Time for me to read that paper you found...

;D

Here's a possible setup for the TPU with the above understanding.

Notice that these magnetostrictive effects are REVERSIBLE.
That means if you deform the material it produces a voltage.
It's the same stuff as piezo effects with electric fields, except this is magnetic phenomena.

You see, one magnet could be twisting through 90 degrees, and the other compensating and reverting back. There are so many possibilities here. I'm not saying this is the exact config, but I think we're in the ball park as far as the PHENOMENA employed by SM in the TPUs.

Everything we have said before about mixing signals etc, can still apply here.Ã,  The logic and pulsing circuits will work the same, but hopefully, with this setup, we can do away with ALL ELECTRONICS, and just build a resonating magnetostrictive wire at the exact Schumann frequency and capture the energy right out of the air !!!


EM

@EM

Don't take this the wrong way but you are really starting to tickle my fancy.

Don't throw out you breadboard kit just yet.

Imagine if just below each of those magnets you had a high impedance coil held inside a paramagnetic 'inverted U' form. The purpose of which was to force the field of that magnet to rapidly change orientation? Not only would you twist the iron one way but you would also twist it back the other way. At a minimum this coil could be used to alternately cancel the field from the magnet.

interesting theory BEP, I'm getting all excited here as well. :)

I'm starting to lean towards the longitudinal strain, but the twist strain can also be the mode of operation.Ã, 

Anyhow, here's another diagram to a piece of wire that is in LONGITUDINAL RESONANCE.Ã, Ã,  That means that it is not visible to the unaided eye, in other words, there is no movement you can see to the SIDE or transversly, all displacement is along the axis of the rod (hence the name LONGITUDINAL)

Now,Ã,  SM said he CUTS THE WIRE TO A DESIRED LENGTH.Ã, Ã, 

This now explains it perfectly.Ã,  You cut the wire to the right length for the frequency.


So, if we want half a wavelength resonance at 100 Hz, assuming a 3000 m/s acoustic speed, we find the wire length as follows:

Wavelength = (3000 meter/sec ) / (100cycles/sec) = 30 meters

so

Wire Length = Wavelength/2 = 30 meters / 2Ã,  = 15 meters


That's not a bad length to work with.Ã,  But like I said before, all the other signal techniques like heterodyning etc can still be used to mix down.Ã, Ã,  Basicaly, we now have a high Q resonator structure which is very simple,Ã,  A SIMPLE WIREÃ,  and we can couple to it WITH ELECTRICITY AND COILS.


Ok, here's a game plan.Ã, Ã,  Let's just try to resonate a simple wire length like I show in the diagram.

Place a coil around this wire, BUT FIRST WRAP THE WIRE IN FOAM SO IT'S FREE TO RESONATE.

That's my goal now.

EM

Here's a better explanation of the OPEN TPU.

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 09:08:55 PM
Here's a better explanation of the OPEN TPU.

EM

Bravo, that is a really good synopsis there EM!

And HIGHLY PLAUSIBLE!

(merely summarizing what you said)...

Using fast/sharp pulses in the 4 control coils to induce fast physical movement to the lower ring (and hence the vertical output coils).

The OU component being the facet of free and very sharp movement of the lower ring due to it's own magnetostriction response ;), it then is this free OU component that moves the vertical coils to and fro in the field of the permanent magnets. This also explains the two sets of white wires that show up in the middle of that open TPU and go to the output cap there, always wondered where those wires were coming from...

I likey...

Oh my God, tao, check this out,

In the video he says he uses 6000 Hz

From the video it looks like the TPU has a diameter of about 16 cm

Circumference =  pi x 16 cm = 50.27 cm  =  0.503 meters

Now,

Assuming the approximate 3000 m/s acoustic speed in iron

wavelength@6khz = [ 3000 m/s ] / [ 6000 Hz ] = 0.5 meters


WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

Same result man,   he is using ONE FULL WAVELENGTH RESONANCE !!!!

What a confirmation, wow.  I'm hooked man.

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 09:44:10 PM
Oh my God, tao, check this out,

In the video he says he uses 6000 Hz

From the video it looks like the TPU has a diameter of about 16 cm

Circumference =  pi x 16 cm = 50.27 cm  =  0.503 meters

Now,

Assuming the approximate 3000 m/s acoustic speed in iron

wavelength@6khz = [ 3000 m/s ] / [ 6000 Hz ] = 0.5 meters


WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

Same result man,   he is using ONE FULL WAVELENGTH RESONANCE !!!!

What a confirmation, wow.  I'm hooked man.

EM

Great minds..................

I was just about to guesstimate the diameter and measure against the 3000m/s myself, lol ;)...

Thanks for saving my time, hrmm, that seems like a PERFECT MATCH to the full wavelength resonance to me!  ;D

It is all just 'clicking' into place, it all fits. The kicks, having OU from a single wire, the frequencies mentioned by SM in his videos, the control coils perpendicular, everything.

I'm quite excited, to say the least.

@ EM

Congratulations, my friend!  I believe that you may have solved the piece of the puzzle, where SM says:

"The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil."

AND

"HEY, did you know that the frequency is proportional to the speaker's circumference? it appears that the frequency should change with the circumference of the speaker."

So, if this hold true, one now knows how to determine the fundamental frequency.  It is a good start.  Makes finding F2x and F3x alot easier!  LOL   ;) 

I mentioned the math along time ago on my thread.  I believe it was called "directiviity" and it relates to speakers, if I recall.  You have already showed the math, using iron, and it sure seems to fit!!   :o  I mentioned iron along time ago also, but was quickly silenced by people quoting SM's copper stranded for the collectors, not iron.  But if it fits, ...  ;)

You may want to try your math with the larger TPU and see what frequency you come up with also, and see if it matches.

Edit:  Unless of course that is the F3x, then one works backwards to find the fundamental frequency as most here know.

Cheers,
Bruce

Following the same insanity....

If you lay the open TPU with the load connection South:

At SW, NW, NE and SE you have control coils (plate coils for the tubes)
wrapped over the control coils at NW and SE you have a grid coil (finer wire about 3.75 the inductance of the plate coil)

Coils at SW and NW are for the tubes at S
Coils at SE and NE are for the tubes at N

N & S hemispheres' coils are counterwound from each other (because feedback coils are usually counterwound? or each oscillator makes changes in the opposite direction?)

I'm thinking two separate blocking oscillators or magnetostrictive oscillators (either will follow resonance of the core AND the magnetic field environment) - not only to drive but also to limit.

STRIKE THIS>> And the bottom core/collector is a spiral wind to make maximum use of the magnetostriction effect.

I could go on but we'll see how that fits....

<realization>That is what the slit is for! To ALLOW for the expansion - How DUMB of me. The blasted thing is shiny black because that IS the normal color of annealed iron.</realization>

Sorry. I've already verified that what you say is actually happening - or could happen if that is how you build it. No OU here. And I do think you are right. The problem is I still think there is more to it but these should be solid basic operating principles.

Guys, this is a team effort and I have to say, we mentioned magnetostriction before, but for some reason never pursued it or got excited about it, at least I didn't.

At this point I would feel confident enough to say that we might have figured out the modality, the phenomena, the physics, if you will, that are at work in the TPU, and that isÃ,  ACOUSTIC RESONANCE induced through MAGNETOSTRICITON.

Now, the rest of the story needs to be figured out.Ã,  What do we do with a resonating ring?Ã,  With 4 coils off in phase by 90, 180, 270, 360?Ã,  (in the case of the open TPU at least)

How do we tie it all together?Ã,  Where is the energy coming from?Ã,  Schumann?Ã,  Quite possible Schumann.Ã,  We are resonating so low now, that we can couple into a harmonic of Schumann.Ã, 

I'm already experimenting and I realized a strange heating effect.Ã, Ã,  I previously used the same Blocking oscilator to resonate at around 5 kHz but there was hardly any heating effect.Ã, Ã,  (I can change the frequency by bringing a magnet into the proximity of the inductor)

EM


P.S.Ã,  You know what realy set me off today on this path?Ã,   I read about Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW) filters.Ã,  These are piezodevices, which use physical acoustic resonance and the piezoeffect to link back to electrical phenomena.Ã,  I said, that's it, the friking TPU is supposed to be magnetic, why can't it resonate by magnetostriciton.Ã,  I mean, even that wineing sound fits as a clueÃ,  (the small blue wraped TPU on the glass table makes that sound when turned off, the same like a toster when turned on)Ã,   Here's a link to SAW filters that I read today.Ã,  Look toward the botom and see how complex things can get when you merge two physical phenomena like acoustics and electricity.Ã,   http://www3.sympatico.ca/colin.kydd.campbell/

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 11:12:53 PM
Guys, this is a team effort and I have to say, we mentioned magnetostriction before, but for some reason never pursued it or got excited about it, at least I didn't.

At this point I would feel confident enough to say that we might have figured out the modality, the phenomena, the physics, if you will, that are at work in the TPU, and that is  ACOUSTIC RESONANCE induced through MAGNETOSTRICITON.

Now, the rest of the story needs to be figured out.  What do we do with a resonating ring?  With 4 coils off in phase by 90, 180, 270, 360?  (in the case of the open TPU at least)

How do we tie it all together?  Where is the energy coming from?  Schumann?  Quite possible Schumann.  We are resonating so low now, that we can couple into a harmonic of Schumann. 

I'm already experimenting and I realized a strange heating effect.   I previously used the same Blocking oscilator to resonate at around 5 kHz but there was hardly any heating effect.   (I can change the frequency by bringing a magnet into the proximity of the inductor)

EM

Answering one of you questions put forth: I think that if the Schumann in involved, you would tie into it by pulsing the drive coils (which are wrapped around the iron wire) at 7.8Hz or a harmonic of it, this COULD then cause an effect like that shown in Marco's dancing magnets, hence we would get a much larger magnetostriction effect and hence physical movement of the iron wire/core.

Then again, what if the OU isn't coming from the Schumann at all, but merely from the iron wire/core itself? Meaning the magnetostriction/physical movement of the iron wire/core when the key frequencies are applied to the Drive coil(s). SM talked about his KICKs, he talked about the movement of the filament, he talked about moving a wire through a magnetic field FAST or vice versa, he talked about applying a sharp ONE WAY pulse to a SIMPLE wire and how OU could be seen. So, where would the OU be coming into play? The OU would be coming from the FAST physical movement of the iron wire/coil as it is magnetostricted. As long at this iron wire/coil is in or near a magnetic field (the earth's, a permanent magnet, or a electromagnet), there should be additional induction into this wire from it's physical movement.

(Now let me read that and see if I made any sense, lol..........)

SM stated early on that there was "no iron" in the core of the TPU and that the core wires (collectors) are copper.

It makes a lot of sense tao,Ã,  like in the TPU schematic I posted that's what I was thinking.Ã,  It could be just that, fast motion of coils through a magnetic field.Ã, Ã,  And since the whole thing is supposed to vibrate anyway, any RETARDING effect from this induction,Ã,  will just resonate it some moreÃ,  :)Ã,  Basicaly the resonating ring is free floating,Ã,  and you know what, it could be affected by GRAVITY.Ã, Ã,  Any free floating vibrating ring will be !!!!

Oh, and in the videos SM also says something about induction (after the blanked out portion in the UEC video towards the end of the tape)

@ Grumpy,  if that is true, then the iron wire is around the circumference.  It can work both ways.  Copper inside, Iron on the outside, or iron inside, copper around the outside.  :)

I'm excited now about the open TPU.  The magnetic beast !!!

EM

Quote from: Grumpy on October 03, 2007, 11:44:53 PM
SM stated early on that there was "no iron" in the core of the TPU and that the core wires (collectors) are copper.

He did indeed, multistranded no doubt.

But, considering the first TPU and the Open TPU don't seem to conform to SM's 'descriptive layout' for the TPU which he released, the same layout that describes the use of the multi-stranded copper, it seems likely that these first two TPUs might not use only copper... But of course, who really knows, right?

I mean, the Open TPU has some lamp-type wire on it, those would be the 4 red coils, yet, where is 'collector' that is perpendicular to 'controls'? It doesn't seem to be there. SM said that he made hundreds of TPUs. He also talked about using different materials for the collectors, and that he couldn't really talk about it, so again, who knows, right?

I'm with you Grumpy about the copper as a collector theory, because SM said it through Mannix, BUT, SM's whole descriptive layout, where he stated that copper was the collector, this layout just doesn't seem to jive with either of those first two TPUs.

So, considering what we know from Mannix via SM, and what we see in the videos, and knowing that SM is so hesitant to give us the ultimate keys to the TPU to protect his pension, it seems highly likely that our current search back in magnetostriction is a viable path for duplication of either of SM's first two TPUs...

I have to get in here to say this.

WOW!

This hypothesis is just brilliant. I've never seen something go so smoothly mathematicaly or verbally with what SM has shown us.

Congrats! :)

hi there guys

i dont think there is an osc at all in the tpu  ;)

well we need our 3 freq gennys and an amp  and maybe some feedback?

ist


hummmm....

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 11:47:34 PM
It makes a lot of sense tao,  like in the TPU schematic I posted that's what I was thinking.  It could be just that, fast motion of coils through a magnetic field.   And since the whole thing is supposed to vibrate anyway, any RETARDING effect from this induction,  will just resonate it some more  :)  Basicaly the resonating ring is free floating,  and you know what, it could be affected by GRAVITY.   Any free floating vibrating ring will be !!!!

Oh, and in the videos SM also says something about induction (after the blanked out portion in the UEC video towards the end of the tape)

@ Grumpy,  if that is true, then the iron wire is around the circumference.  It can work both ways.  Copper inside, Iron on the outside, or iron inside, copper around the outside.  :)

I'm excited now about the open TPU.  The magnetic beast !!!

EM

I always thought that duplicating the Open TPU was the best idea, because that was the only one we could really SEE INTO ;).

Plus, I was always annoyed by the fact that SM's descriptive layout for his TPUs never quite matched this Open TPU, especially the part about the collector being multistranded copper and that it was perpendicular to the control coils, the problem of course being that there is no copper collector wire/coil perpendicular to the 4 control coils around the Open TPU, unless that copper collector was IN the lower black ring of the Open TPU, which aways seemed highly unlikely.

Good point about Gravity's interaction. As the iron coil/wire is physically moving due to the sharp magnetostriction, it is interacting with the permanet magnets in the Open TPU, with the Earth's magnetic field, and all the while Gravity is pulling against it's physical movement too, good point man. A lot of interactions going on there, surely there is ample room for OU...


EDIT: One more thing to add before I go to sleep. In my readings on magnetostriction, HEAT comes up quite a bit because it is a key byproduct of magnetostriction, due to the resultant EDDY CURRENTS created during the magnetostriction process, HRMMM, sure sounds TPUish, doesn't it?... I have also come to read that magnetostriction, when it happens at a specific material's key resonance, it can vibrate the material so violently that it ruptures the material or even explodes... HRMM, again TPUish, the whole 'don't tune to close to the key frequency' talk of SM...

Quote from: tao on October 03, 2007, 11:58:52 PM
I always thought that duplicating the Open TPU was the best idea, because that was the only one we could really SEE INTO ;).

This is exactly why I've been concentrating on this one for the last few months. Attached is the layout I used. Yes, aluminum can be a good MS material - Now I think not good enough.

Heating? Indeed! Even when very little power goes in!

Hi you guys. Really first class.

So on the TPU you are discussing about...

What happens when you pass a magnet once over a wire? That's right. We all know this.

Now what happens when instead of moving a magnet over a wire, you move its field over a wire 5000 times per second?

Does Bearden ring a bell!

So what if all that is happening is the wrapped coils are energized and this shifts the four magnet fields to simply simulate a moving magnet.

The source is the magnets.

The metal ring is like an armature that evenly disperses the magnetic field around the TPU.

The movement of the magnet fields is by the coils shifting it.

The collector is the white wire over which the field moves. Looks like Litz to increase again the wire length. Longer wire means more juice.

The coils wrapped around the magnets are the initial energy source to the circuit. These coils could also be multistrand bifilar.

Just thinking out loud.

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 06:18:23 PM

That means if you deform the material it produces a voltage.
It's the same stuff as piezo effects with electric fields, except this is magnetic phenomena.

EM

Hi all,

EM, GREAT find! compliments!

Now remember SM saying this:  No they are not piezo stacks, but they do look like it.....

hmmm, think we have another match....

regards

Robert

Magnetostriction does not explain the "flipping over" anomoly.  It does not explain the term "rotational magnetic receiver".

QuoteSeptember 27, 2006

It is really great to see more "hands on" activity here. It may be relevant to convey the importance of the relationship
between the resonances/wire lengths of the control/collector coils. I think of it a a rotational magnetic reciever. Some of
the tests that I have carried on the coiols that have visible control windings indicate frequencies in the megahertz range
which would make pc scopes un usable ...I could be wrong...we will see. We are Searching for a rotational Kicking
field.that can be accelerated by applying harmonics This could take a while. It is unconventional. Sharing results..even
failures will help every body. Sharing limitations will slow everybody down. It would be great if more those who seem to
have a clear understanding would do some winding to confirm their expectations. Perhaps Luck will come into it I
remember a fellow who said "The more I work and act the more luck I seem to get"

Lastly, magnetostriction does not explain the 'tune to close to the frequency of conversion and you get blown to hell issue'.

Not trying the knock the theory, just pointing out some issues with it.

Hopefully this is a good 'restarting point'. Since I'm on my third iteration of this TPU lookalike I can only be sure of one thing:

All of the differrent discoveries and ideas are going to come together and we'll all party!. I am quite sure the work and results - from GK (wave interaction), Wattsup(and others) field cancellation, IS (what can I say he's done it all!), Mark( brings precision, perception and great clarity ), all the long timers that are probably saying 'oh!, here we go again' - will still need combining.

I'll not dig for it because I'm sure someone knows the exact stansa and verse but wasn't there a reference to methods of using magnetic fields to 'image' objects? Say MRI? Do you know where that banging noise comes from when your head is in there?

BTW @IS

A signal generator is an oscillator, albeit a fancy one  ;)

@Grumpy

On one earlier 'Cook Coil' test I did I found the coil resonance at 7.5kHz. That didn't explain the low buzzing noise on the work bench. The bundle of iron wire was vibrating at a frequency much lower than 60Hz. I wasn't equipped to measure it at that time. That buzz didn't show up on the scope even when I dozed off waiting for the trace to cross.
The tuning and explosion issues are classic magnetostriction problems. Positive feedback at the right frequency has been said to damage bridges. Who's to say the material resonance frequency isn't the 'third'.
Isn't it common for a sound or RF tech to refer to the second and third harmonic as 'the second' and 'the third' and only use the word frequency when talking about a specific frequency? It is in my circles.

My mind is very open on all this so If I'm off-base please shoot me down  ;D

@ Grumpy,

tao just wrote,Ã, Ã,  if you tune too close to the vibrational mode of the ring , it might very well BLOW UP !!!
Think what happend to the Tacoma Bridge that broke apart due to resonance.Ã,  Think what happens to wine glasses when singers hit the right cord.Ã,  Think what TESLA did with a small vibrator attached to a building?Ã, 

Physical resonance is distructive if pushed to the limit. !!!

Regarding the upside down turn off phenomena, I'm not realy sure why that happens?
and it sounds like SM didn't either.Ã, Ã,  Once we duplicate this thing we'll be able to experiment and find out why.

@all
Here's a usefull chart.Ã,  I notice that we need a DC bias to bring the magnetisation close to the SATURATION (close to the flat curve) region, since from the chart below we see that's where the magnetostriction is largestÃ,  (meaning we get the most STRAIN per B-field.)

This thing is almost analogous to a Speaker and Microphone in feedback causing a ear piercing sound, except the mode of resonance here is LONGITUDINAL and no sound is produced.  Ã,  I think GK mentioned this concept a while ago.Ã,  How true it seems now.

EM

P.S.Ã,  One other point I wanted to mention,Ã,  the gyroscopic effect now makes sense.Ã, Ã,  Any vibrating objects will exitbit it.Ã, Ã,  It doesn't have to rotate.Ã, Ã,  For example the SEGWAY use the gyrochips, which are Integrated Circuts (ICs) with small piezo elements that vibrate inside, and they can detect angular changes.Ã,  So any vibrational object becomes one with the background frame of reference !!!Ã,  (what ever that isÃ,  LOL)

A magnet can be used to raise Q and saturation point as well as a DC bias.
--
Hmmm .... Not only does an object in motion tend to stay in motion but it tends to continue in the same direction  ;D

Quote from: wattsup on September 20, 2007, 04:13:49 PM
Hello Mac, (short for Macedonia)

I am sorry if I am slow to understand what you are saying, so please let me ask you to be more precise.
Are you saying;
[snip]

Now I know you have the answer to starting the current flow with your coil and Buzz11 diode system, as I had indirectly eluded to this when I said pulse the current from the inducutors at 120k, into a cap, but I would like to know where you can get enough power to run an RF Generator and what this will do in the system.

@wattsup
A low-power osc could easily be powered by a 9V block battery.  Only few mA are necessary since the oscillator is only serving as a catalyst.

Quote from: wattsup on September 20, 2007, 04:13:49 PM
I had thought that the great inspectors that have looked at SM's devices had checked for any RF or other wave or signal emmanations and I do not remember any of them saying this to be so.

The TPU documentation clearly shows that the TPU was putting out a lot of RF hash and would interfere with correct operation of power converters if it got too close.

Quote from: wattsup on September 20, 2007, 04:13:49 PM
And why are you talking about the atom bomb?

MAC is talking about an uncontrollable energy avalanche.

Quote from: wattsup on September 20, 2007, 04:13:49 PM
And why are you saying SM is like Tesla. Tesla brought his products and inventions to the world, openly patented them and we use them today. SM hid his device from the world and we are not using them today. There is a very big difference. I am sure if Tesla was alive today, with the communication as it is, he would be on the internet explaining every little aspect of his systems, his knowledge, etc., and we would not have to play guessing games until the moon turns blue. I don't think you can put them on the same stage.

Negative.  You are suffering from self-delusional hero worship.  Tesla took the secrets of his electric Pierce-Arrow with him to the grave.  SM and Tesla are maybe identical twins, if the TPU is not a fake.  As much as Tesla is my idol, he was not only extremely intelligent and very ecentric, but also a chicken shit.  Yes I know, the truth hurts.

Regards, Earl

Here's an interesting paragraph:

Composite Materials

Ã,  While Terfenol-D and other magnetostrictive materials are potentially important as actuator materials, some limitations have limited their adoption over more traditional piezoelectric and electrostrictive materials.Ã,  The two most important issuesÃ,  are eddy current losses due to high frequency operation, and poor durability.Ã,  Due to the time changing magnetic field used to actuate Terfenol-D, eddy currents are developed within the actuator material itself and hamper its use at frequencies above 2 kHz.Ã,  Polymer matrix composites, using a particulate form of the magnetostrictive material, essentially eliminate eddy current losses to 100 kHz and beyond.Ã,  Furthermore, the polymer matrix used to bind the particulate produces a relatively tough material that can better accommodate tensile and shear loading states.Ã,  Hoping to take advantage of these benefits, research into magnetostrictive composite materials has been performed at UCLA since 1994.Ã,  Ã, 

Eddy current losses?Ã,   Yes !!

Reserach at UCLA, in SM's backyard, since 1994?Ã, Ã,  Wow !!

@ BEP

It's true about the magnet doing the same as DC bias, but in a ring how do you use it Longitudinally ?Ã,  Ã,  :)Ã,  Ã,  I'm seeing a DC bias coil now in the Open TPUÃ,  LOLÃ,  (it's the fat red coil under his right hand)Ã,  :)

EM

P.S.Ã,  By the way, Terfenol-D is one of the best magnetorestrictive alloy, but pricey $$$$
REF:  http://aml.seas.ucla.edu/research/areas/magnetostrictive/overview.htm

@ALL

Here is an idea for a simple quick and dirty quadrature oscillator.
Important are identical coils and careful and symmetrical constuction.

The inverters could be 74HC or CMOS or TTL or LS or S or RTL or tubes.
Pick your poison.  I suggest 74HC inverters, maybe Schmit-trigger input??

With CMOS inverters, it may be desirable to insert series resistor on output
gate feeding coil to quasi form a current output instead of a voltage output.

If the frequency bandwidth is sufficient, the best inverter would be the old
HEF4007B from Philips / NXP.  It has access to the sources of both the
N and P channel FETs and it is possible to insert resistors in each source
thereby turning the output stage into high-impedance constant current output
instead of low-impedance voltage output.  When feeding inductance, this
tends to give sine waves instead of square waves.

360 / 4 coils = 90 degrees = automatic rotating field

@BEP, thanks for the great drawing

Regards, Earl

Bridges breaking and lightning strikes are not the same.  SM used the term "explosion" - that implies a sudden surge not a slow buildup 

You will not get a "lightning strike" with megnetostriction.

I have used Terfenol-D in actuators (for an electro-mechanical switching device) - if this was used the the TPU would not be "cheap" to build.  You can get sample kits of this material - or at lest you used to be able to.

To get a lightning strike - you got to screw with the "potential"  ;)

@Earl

You're welcome.

There are a couple of things I'm sure of.
1. The dimensions are fairly close
2. The four coils are not all wound in the same direction (see photos)
3. There are a total of six coils not counting possible coils in the two legs.

Possible:
1. There is a slit at each quadrant allowing more flex
2. The two 'possible' slits I see are not aligned indicating a possible intended phase shift in mechanical movement
3. Waves of magnetostrictive movement can follow standard wave functions - like interference, summation, cancellation, harmonics, FFT, etc.
At least #3 is the only way I can explain why I pump high freeks in and it buzzes below 60Hz.

Nice Drawing there guys !!Ã,  I like them.Ã,  Soon we will all have TPUs !!!

Here's the OU principle !!!

What do you guys think?Ã,  This is what I was saying before.Ã,  Ã, We can feed the Output back to the Input phase shifted appropriatelyÃ,  so itÃ,  AMPLIFIESÃ,  !!!Ã,  Ã,  (positive feedback)

EM

P.S.Ã,  This device seemes to be the equivalent of the MRA, which used PIEZOELECTRIC phenomena.Ã,  This uses the MAGNETOSTRICTION phenomena. !!!Ã,  Ã,  Ponder this diagram and then look at the previous chart I posted, and you will see why this works.Ã, Ã,  The iron rod can develop quite an expansive force !!!Ã, Ã,  Look at the chart,Ã,  Million pounds of force !!!Ã, Ã,  (see the legend, the material deforms under STRESS, that's what the multiple curves are for)

I added the DC-Bias coils.Ã,  These canÃ,  be designed to draw very little current (lots of turns).Ã, Ã,  We can also use a magnet to accomplish the same task of pushing the material into Saturation so the Magnetostrictive phenomena is amplified.

@EM

What I think is that the million pounds is no help.  Since your output depends on classical Faraday induction, it is the speed of movement that is important, nothing else.  Perhaps not even displacement amplitude, only speed.

Regards, Earl

.

Yes Earl, speed is important as well!!Ã,   At resonance it will VIBRATE and move fast.Ã,  Ã,  But realize this,Ã,  Faraday Induction creates a BACK FORCE on the rod.Ã,   So going by the charts we see, this DOESN'T MATTER FOR THIS PHENOMENA, since the force it can apply is HUGE !!!!

EM

Quote from: BEP on October 04, 2007, 10:28:00 AM
I'll not dig for it because I'm sure someone knows the exact stansa and verse but wasn't there a reference to methods of using magnetic fields to 'image' objects? Say MRI? Do you know where that banging noise comes from when your head is in there?

BEP hi,

I guess you mean this phrase:

13.   Has anyone ever read the reports about our experiments with what was called, the magnetic shadow casting material?
Those experiments tie in with to our development of the power unit.

Robert

Quote from: EMdevices on October 04, 2007, 11:56:18 AM
@ BEP

It's true about the magnet doing the same as DC bias, but in a ring how do you use it Longitudinally ?

Thinking outkeyboard...

You put another ring above the first and place the magnets as shown in the video  ??? The coil in the leg is positioned so when powered it slews the magnet's field to bias the wave on the bottom ring. Since the top ring is paramagnetic it mirrors the activity of the bottom ring (reverse or 90 leading?). The rings also distribute the fields from both magnets. Possibly the magnets are reverse of each other creating a standing magnetic wave. This standing wave would then rotate as the 'control coils's' fields twist it.

@EM, BEP & All

Privileged to know you Geniuses ;D

Acerzw

Quote from: EMdevices on October 03, 2007, 09:08:55 PM
Here's a better explanation of the OPEN TPU.

EM

EM:
I haven't been following the TPU thread for a while. I think you may be onto something interesting.
Wouldn't it be ironic if the magician who made up the fake 6" TPU video (with batteries) actually solved the real stuff!
I really hope you'll win the OU prize.

regards
chrisC

@EM & BEP

I recall one of bolts posts where he stated that SM had said a couple of posters were getting close before, I think since EM's breakthrough here it is probably worth you guys taking another look at those posters work, if you can find it, to see if further insights might be gained in the light of your new knowledge.

From bolts post with words that resonate highlighted  8):

"SM has very nearly spilled the beans on this risking his freedom and pay packet. He is right he has said far too much already. SM mentioned Bushwacker and Freedomfuel for getting close. Bushwacker dedicated most of his time working on the Hope device. IMO it will never work he is only making a cooker peizo coil but he was named because he was injecting AUDIO sine waves into his hope device. However the guy reads like a crank to me every post was about abductions and threats  from MIB  which i very much doubt they would be interested in his cooker coil. Freedomfuel was mentioned because of his excellent theory. He was bang on correct about how this works but for some reason i recon he saw the potential good and BAD and decided to walk away. But he deleted over 100 very critical posts and was leaps ahead of most other on here 12 months ago. For all i know he has a working model."

Link to bolts post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg49823.html#msg49823

Has anyone an archived copy of Freedomfuel's deleted posts? (Mine doesn't go back that far) If so please post as ZIP copy here for all.

Acerzw

Quote from: BEP on October 04, 2007, 12:43:10 PM
[snip]
3. Waves of magnetostrictive movement can follow standard wave functions - like interference, summation, cancellation, harmonics, FFT, etc.
At least #3 is the only way I can explain why I pump high freeks in and it buzzes below 60Hz.

@BEP

Do the high freqs have any sum or difference products that are 60Hz or less?

Regards, Earl

@Earl

I looked at it every angle I could dream up. The only one that may fit is the mechanical movement may have been an even divisor of the coil frequency.
Since the oscillator used was a blocking I suspect the osc ran at the lowest portion of the coil bandwidth that was an even multiple of the sonic resonance of the core.
It was too fast to count but certainly less than 60. I've since scrounged the experiment for others.

So the answer is no. However, the frequency was not stable. It drifted within a small range....was the range in the tens of Hertz? I'll have to try to repeat it.

.

FreedomFuel's Posts on OUPower.com:

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1451&

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=965&sid=99dd455689e25b3bb25b443fadca42b2

Around the time that he left, Freedomfuel tried to convince people to "bury the TPU", stating that it could explode and was very dangerous, etc.

A couple of other good posts here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=937.78



PS - I think EMDevices was on the right track with this post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg48900#msg48900

Quote from: Grumpy on October 04, 2007, 06:18:13 PM
PS - I think EMDevices was on the right track with this post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg48900#msg48900

Agreed then and now to "A varying E-field in a vertical plane will give rise to a magnetic field that circulates around the E-field vectors".

Do we all realize that the reverse is true? A circulating magnetic field will give rise to a varying E-field in a vertical plane centered on that circulating magnetic field.

@duff & Grumpy

Thanks for those excellent links... there are some pretty interesting links cited in FreedomFuels second posting, might be worth a look, I notice one refers to magnetic reconnection.

Acerzw

Quote from: BEP on October 04, 2007, 06:56:13 PM

Quote from: Grumpy on October 04, 2007, 06:18:13 PM
PS - I think EMDevices was on the right track with this post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg48900#msg48900

Agreed then and now to "A varying E-field in a vertical plane will give rise to a magnetic field that circulates around the E-field vectors".

Do we all realize that the reverse is true? A circulating magnetic field will give rise to a varying E-field in a vertical plane centered on that circulating magnetic field.

Just think hard and seriously about that for a minute. 

See it? 

I don't recall Freedomfuel saying he built and tested anything like the TPU. Does anyone know if he did?

If he didn't, I wonder what could have caused his sudden aversion to TPU research?

If he did experiment, I guess the reason is obvious.

I don't have to think about it. I turned it off back in March. What do you think got me branded a heretic, even in an OU forum?
Slow watches, light shifts, waveguides, EMP devices - should I go on?

Hmmm.... now that I've seen some of FredomFuel's posts.....

I'm just wondering if everyone else understands how important rotation is. Yes, there is power and maybe even some OU in MS mode but the real power is at least another step.

So we produce this LW traveling in a circle and each time it passes we give it another kick in the pants until there is no more room for our kicks.

I feel a need to theorize but I just took a pill that will go away shortly  :)

Quote from: BEP on October 04, 2007, 08:45:33 PM
I don't have to think about it. I turned it off back in March. What do you think got me branded a heretic, even in an OU forum?
Slow watches, light shifts, waveguides, EMP devices - should I go on?

Well, turn it back on!

You're a damn "Hero" not a "heritic"!

Quote from: z_p_e on October 04, 2007, 08:34:34 PM
I don't recall Freedomfuel saying he built and tested anything like the TPU. Does anyone know if he did?

If he didn't, I wonder what could have caused his sudden aversion to TPU research?

If he did experiment, I guess the reason is obvious.

I know what happened with FreedomFuel.

He deleted his posts and posted that last thread of his warning about the TPU's dangers and second-guessing the open sourcing of the TPU not because he HAD a working TPU, but FreedomFuel thought that WE HAD a working TPU, or were soon to have one.

Let me explain. Right about that time, the end of '06, gn0stik, Mannix, ctglabs, me, and a few others deleted ALL of our posts on OU.com, and we basically went into hiding at gn0sis.com. It was meant to be a sort of Manhattan-type project where SM was supposed to PERSONALLY show up and guide us, as long as the forum was secure enough, which it was. But, SM never showed, due in part to his one letter about his meeting with gov officials which scared him to death. Right about that time frame, the end of '06, it wasn't just FreedomFuel, but a lot of others were really wondering what happened to us all and our posts, since we up and left so quickly from OU.com, and FreedomFuel, among others, totally thought that we ALREADY had a working TPU, or just about.

So, it is in that emotional environment in which FreedomFuel's last postings were done, he thought we had a TPU, and he was suddenly second-guessing the whole open sourcing of it's technology, for the reason's he gave. He was trying to portray a sense of caution to the people he thought HAD (or were about to have) working TPUs.

@Grumpy

Like I've said before 'I've been able to make these things do almost anything people say they can do but making extra power isn't one of them' - Yet!

For now the jumpers stay on the caps for that one. One thing I have learned since then - don't rely on designed-in limitations. If you have a longitudinal resonant device expect it to have a multitude of resonant frequencies - not just one!

Quote from: tao on October 04, 2007, 10:21:22 PM
It was meant to be a sort of Manhattan-type project where SM was supposed to PERSONALLY show up and guide us, as long as the forum was secure enough, which it was. But, SM never showed, due in part to his one letter about his meeting with gov officials which scared him to death.

@tao
What letter about his meeting with government officials? Can you post a link to it?

So SM bottled, yet again, amazing! Makes you wonder if he really did use batteries... In the time since the original grainy videos were posted here far more progress has been made on how he might have faked them than anything else? The Pied Piper anyone?


I know we should not expect him to give the TPU to us on a plate, but after all the stuff in his letters to mannix regarding his respect for UEC and their rights, and now we find out this... it seems somewhat hypocritical and like he is just arsing everyone around with BS. Since it also appears that he has tried to obscure the working of the TPU, as much as explain it, as well as purposefully obscuring the design of his devices by adding false components on some of them...

In his letters to mannix he states he will supply a coil diagram... well he didn't...

At some point he should put up or shut up... but then he appears to have shut up, no surprises there... it is a shame the weakest link is right at the start!

Acerzw

Quote from: acerzw on October 05, 2007, 12:25:40 AM
@tao
What letter about his meeting with government officials? Can you post a link to it?

So SM bottled, yet again, amazing! Makes you wonder if he really did use batteries... In the time since the original grainy videos were posted here far more progress has been made on how he might have faked them than anything else? The Pied Piper anyone?


I know we should not expect him to give the TPU to us on a plate, but after all the stuff in his letters to mannix regarding his respect for UEC and their rights, and now we find out this... it seems somewhat hypocritical and like he is just arsing everyone around with BS. Since it also appears that he has tried to obscure the working of the TPU, as much as explain it, as well as purposefully obscuring the design of his devices by adding false components on some of them...

In his letters to mannix he states he will supply a coil diagram... well he didn't...

At some point he should put up or shut up... but then he appears to have shut up, no surprises there... it is a shame the weakest link is right at the start!

Acerzw

I believe that the TPU is authentic, considering everything known.

You really have to see SM's many letters to Mannix to see his plights. I don't have the link to the letters yet.

In regards to batteries, SM openly admitted to us that he DID use a battery, but ONLY as a mechanism for better control and EASE in the INITIAL STARTING of his devices, which again, makes perfect sense. You can even hear it in SM's voice when the videographer asks him if the OPEN TPU has a battery in it, SM seems surprised that he asked and he quickly says 'NO', and then changes the subject. But again, having one 9V battery doesn't mean fake, it means it's real...

It is true about the diagram, we never got that. Given a diagram I think we would have already easily solved the TPU. Then again, SM's 'descriptive layout' as I have been referring to it, is LIKE a verbal coil diagram, so he kind of gave us one :P

Hi,

Magnetostriction and phonon emission plays a role in a TPU , but we need also have a right magnetic field strenght, because electron spin precession frequency depends on external magnetic field strenght. With a right spin precession frequency  / input pulse frequency combination we can make spin precession to wobble. This wobble effect in a spin precession is a method to pump energy from the external magnetic field. Bias magnet is useful here, and we can pump energy also from earth`s magnetic field.

Esa

I remember when it was mentioned that when a running tpu was put in a bath of water it was a complete disaster because  in the air some give to the vibration is allowed and the water did not allow it.

a very interesting discussion here.

@z_p_e, tao, BEP & all

Please see this post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3279.msg53042.html#msg53042

and then my subsequent post on that thread, I would appreciate your comments on my idea for the main coil construction.

Kind Regards

Acerzw

Thank you Mannix.

I believe that little bit of information is very helpful and I had not heard that.  Thinking of it this way, vibration can be cause or effect, or both.  If it were simply the by product of what was going on in the TPU, one would think that damping those vibrations would not make any difference, or perhaps only a small one.  If the operating principle were dependant on those vibrations, at 7.3 times a second on the small unit, the one could easily see why liquid damping would be a disaster.

That would seem to limit the possabilites somewhat to the motis operendi of the TPU.  It would also suggest that he was looking for the vibration effect (as in Marco's dancing magnet experiment) found close to the Shummans to further the power output.  It is mentioned by a person who attended a demonstration, that he "tuned too" 7.23 Hz.  Of course he used high frequency for the F!,2 and 3.  Thus the conundrum.

Bruce

Might not the water also cool the coil and thus reduce whatever effect is being used, which would of course reduce the vibration as a secondary symptom...

Acerzw

Acer,

You should have the full story before bashing SM around. Give the man a break folks! Yes he was profusely "warned" about divulging TPU information....we should respect the fact that he continued to do so regardless, albeit in a metaphoric manner, but much better than nothing.

I am really tiring of seeing negative remarks about SM and the TPU. IMHO, if folks have these kinds of doubts about an inventor, they should move on to something else. This is certainly what I do. SM's and UEC's apparent motivations are of no importance to the end goal. Things are the way they are, like it or not. More clear info would be nice, but that's a given. Let's focus on understanding the TPU, and not on why SM did this or didn't do that.

Regarding your build theory and Ronotte's analysis; I have always seen and assumed that the two solid white areas at the top and bottom of the cutout section were wood formers. So, I have no comment regarding the material/layout theory.

Cheers

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 04:51:57 AM
I remember when it was mentioned that when a running tpu was put in a bath of water it was a complete disaster because  in the air some give to the vibration is allowed and the water did not allow it.

a very interesting discussion here.

Hi Mannix,

Do you have more information what happened when tpu was put in a bath of water?
Electrons magnetic moment in a external magnetic field causes a precession that is similar to water vortex effect caused by gravity when water flows in a tube downwards.

Magnetic force is a flow of dark energy ( zpe ) and is a static field. If we are able to wobble electron spin precession with a current pulse, we can have energy from zpe, energy from spin flips, when electron precession is aligned again to be parallel with an external magnetic field lines ( zpe flow ) during pulses.

Esa

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 04:51:57 AM
I remember when it was mentioned that when a running tpu was put in a bath of water it was a complete disaster because  in the air some give to the vibration is allowed and the water did not allow it.

a very interesting discussion here.

Let's all keep in mind also that water (pure, distilled) is an excellent dielectric - best around.

Tap water usually conducts OK do to the mineerals dissolved in it, hence no longer a dielectric.

Water is different "magnetically".

Water can store enormous electrical potential.

Changing the physical properties if the environment has a huge impact on the things in it, especially if they depend on it.

The fields/potentials at work in the TPU would probably undergo a radical change in a different medium (water vs air).  Place a light and a battery in water and it stays lit.  Drop a light in water on the end of an extension cord and BAM!

So, what type of water?  and what type of disaster?  I suspect all Hell broke loose, but perhaps not immediately.

Dosn't matter.  This is a huge clue.  Huge.

a question at what freq range do you see thease effects in the hho units ?

now what might happin if you take the water away from the system and do it with rings in air  hummmm........

ist

Water is diamagnetic and dipolar. Different magnetic and electric field strengths will produce different effects.
<correction - it can be dia or paramagnetic or both - depends on too many things>

These could have ranged form vortex creation or fast evaporation to instant conversion to H and O and a massive explosion. If the polarities were right the TPU may have simply blown the water out of the tub or sucked it out and drenched everyone.

Hi all.

Just wanted to put this QAT up on this thread so you don't have to go back to see what he said during this demo.

QAT - Quotes, actions and time-stamps.
Comments will be in ( ).

START
34:07 (Opening scene in the garage.)

"This is my larger device.
Again, there's not really alot to it."

34:14 (Shows the lamps. Lamp talk.)

34:29 (He picks up the tpu without any hesitation. First grab. He knows the TPU is off.)

"Now this is the device here, that I am going to demonstrate to you.
Again, there is very very little to this device.
Wire is very important.
Coil operation is here. (He points to the silver box between the rings.)
And, if there were any batteries in here, they are very very very very small. Obviously."
(He is asked by the cameraman), "Are there any?".
(Caught off guard, he answers in a low murmur) "no".
(And quickly proceeds.)

"Now, we're going to start the device by again taking TWO VERY SMALL MAGNETS and placing them here on the receptors I have for them. The meter here is set on zero. Zero voltage. It's set at 200 volts DC. It's the meter range. It's now receiving zero voltage.

Again this unit is, is ahhh, vibrating probably around, an inherent vibration right around 6000 hertz.

First this is where I monitor voltage output here, and the device is putting out 91.1 volts, 91.0 volts, right around 91 volts.

Now to show you the current of this device.....
(He goes on talking about the multi-plug box, puts bulbs into the lamps, plugs them into the wall outlet to show the lamp brightness)

37:27 (While plugging the lamps into the plug box)

"When these are lit again it's going to be different because instead of 120 volts alternating current this device puts out 91.2 volts direct current. Actually it is an alternating current right around, ahhh, 6000 hertz. But for all intents and purposes it will show up as DC. That's why the meter is set on DC. 91.2 volts. So, the plug is in here. (plugs the first light) And look, we have electricity. And we'll give you one here. (Plugs the second light.) Again, we have electricity.

(Tells the cameraman) Come and pan across here to see what's happening.

Again I want to show you that, we'll move this box over here (moves the bulb box to the ledge) I want to show you these wires (holds the lamp wires and points to the tpu) traveling directly from this device, through here (points to the plug box) into these two lamps were we have two 60 watts light bulbs functioning. 91.2 volts is the constant voltage output according to this meter right here."

38:32 (He feels the tpu three times lightly and on the third time, he picks it up. He was expecting it to be HOT. Hot enough to want to check the heat before actually lifting it.)

"There's nothing around this machine. These things do put out a little heat. There's nothing anywhere around here, on this device, that could obviously generate 100 volts of electricity and 120 watts of power. There's no batteries. There certainly is not a computer capacitor inside this device that could generate this kind of electricity. Not possibly a battery small enough to fit inside this device that could possibly generate the amount of electricity necessary to light these two regular electric lamps."

"So... Thank you for giving me the opportunity to show you this video tape and what I have made so far. I will be producing video tapes of larger equipment that I have powered with such devices. I have a device slightly larger than this which will operate, uhhh, puts out about 200 volts of electric power at 20 amps. So as I continue to work on my project, I continue to be able to develop more electric power from the Earths natural electro-magnetic field."

END

Esa,

That was the only reference to the importance of the meduim of air and it was in reply to alternate cooling methods that were discussed. I suggested using teflon hollow tube with refrigerant gas as a cooling method and it was agreed that it could be a good solution that was not yet explored.

It does suggest that during full operation the control coils may be  vibrating back and forth on the collector.

wether it is 7.3 ,5000,or 35,000 who knows?  They get hot..and NOT as a by product of current drawn...counter intuitive ...I Know !

I have always been convinced that it is the tpu config which is the "active" component.
Smashing slow dirty pulses of random spectrum square waves will just create noise.

Sine...or perhaps a ramp signal (as in tv scan coils) (as in a discharging cap) can be the only method  of  excitation as far as I can see. and i wont mention the devices that must be used to experiment with here.

Darren,
you took the words right out of my mouth.

Some "contributions" seem to offer less than nothing but out put of grief, failure and lack of responsibility....been there!. When we feel like that we should just back off  let the others get on with the great work that they are doing  rather that post.

Lindsay

@Earl

@ALL

This may be of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_array

I repeated my earlier experiment that produced very low frequency from a much higher single frequency. I was able to make adjustments that brought the unexpected pulse down to an easy 1 (one) Hertz. Then I blew another precious 2N3055  :o

Core = a loose bundle of iron rods actual size about 16 ga.
jammed into two coils of wire (plastic spools)
A very basic feedback oscillator. Scope frequency drifted around 2.5 kHz
I changed the spacing between the coils for maximum 'thump' on the bench and then adjusted base voltage.

Changing base voltage (also current through the collector coil) changed the frequency of the thump.

My mistake in not understanding why the low freek was because I was still thinking electrons instead of sounds and vibrations.

Regardless, obtaining very low frequencies (very strong ones also) from higher frequencies that have little harmonics or noise happens very well this way.

.

Quote from: BEP on October 06, 2007, 12:41:18 AM
@Earl

@ALL

This may be of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_array

I repeated my earlier experiment that produced very low frequency from a much higher single frequency. I was able to make adjustments that brought the unexpected pulse down to an easy 1 (one) Hertz. Then I blew another precious 2N3055  :o

Core = a loose bundle of iron rods actual size about 16 ga.
jammed into two coils of wire (plastic spools)
A very basic feedback oscillator. Scope frequency drifted around 2.5 kHz
I changed the spacing between the coils for maximum 'thump' on the bench and then adjusted base voltage.

Changing base voltage (also current through the collector coil) changed the frequency of the thump.

My mistake in not understanding why the low freek was because I was still thinking electrons instead of sounds and vibrations.

Regardless, obtaining very low frequencies (very strong ones also) from higher frequencies that have little harmonics or noise happens very well this way.

Where did you source your iron rods from, are they pure iron?

Am I to take it that you feedback power through your simple oscillator and your 2n3055 blew? Or did it blow simply because of too much driving power? :)

How strong were those 1 Hz thumps? Just wondering...

I must say, the parametric array, and even more so, a simple ring formed of iron wire with driving coil(s) around it, driving a lower frequency 'longitudinal' 'sound/vibration' through the iron ring and at key successive moments when the LAST sound/vibration made its way back to its starting point, another was generated/driven into the iron so that these longitudinal sounds/vibrations ADDED, certainly would seem to related directly to our old friend the Hungarian: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3068.0.html

I can definitely see how the TPUs vibrate, heh. Add the Hungarian into the mix, and you EASILY have a recipe for an 'explosive' environment :P

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 10:28:39 PM
Esa,

That was the only reference to the importance of the meduim of air and it was in reply to alternate cooling methods that were discussed. I suggested using teflon hollow tube with refrigerant gas as a cooling method and it was agreed that it could be a good solution that was not yet explored.

It does suggest that during full operation the control coils may be  vibrating back and forth on the collector.

wether it is 7.3 ,5000,or 35,000 who knows?  They get hot..and NOT as a by product of current drawn...counter intuitive ...I Know !

I have always been convinced that it is the tpu config which is the "active" component.
Smashing slow dirty pulses of random spectrum square waves will just create noise.

Sine...or perhaps a ramp signal (as in tv scan coils) (as in a discharging cap) can be the only method  of  excitation as far as I can see. and i wont mention the devices that must be used to experiment with here.


Lindsay

Lindsay,

I am working with a water heater, it is a magnetostrictive device, iron core with helical coil around the core, immersed into water and driven with sharp current pulses. COP is measured to be around 6.0
It is interesting that TPU also generated a lot of heat.
Also you mentioned that the control wires are vibrating, it means that control wires are moving..if you have a moving magnetic field around a conducting wire loop ( collector ) , it induces a voltage to this loop..  Magnetostrictive force is very strong, and is caused when crystalline structure is expanded under magnetic field. It is known that magnetostrictive force is very effective, but the problem is how to put this force to useful work. Maybe a moving wire is one way to have energy from this force.

Esa

OOPS.... I was not aware of this comment:

32. The "TPU" units apparently heat up to a potentially dangerous level after a considerable period of time, and must be shut off at that point.

Which when taken with the fact that the TPU did not work in bath, make it seem highly likely that the TPU will not operate reliably for an extended period of time and therefore is not likely to be able to be used as a continuous power generation device.

If this problem cannot be overcome then the value of the TPU will be severely diminished when compared to other OU devices...

SM seems to imply that the vibration and gyroscopics effect are a necessary side effect of a properly working TPU, if this is the case this heat and vibration will indeed cause the material of the TPU coil to degrade over time and fail....

This is not a good development...

Really hope this can be overcome, though I have my doubts... otherwise a serious waste of effort by many, but probably enough learnt here for many to produce viable OU devices that do not rely on this particular destructive effect...

Does anyone know what the maximum running time for the various size TPU's were before catastrophic failure was likely to occur/did occur?

Acerzw, hoping this is a pessimistic post which is not true...

Computers heat up too, even to self destructive levels. I don't think it's very practical compared to other electronic devices.

Point being: Use the power from the tpu to power it's own cooling mechanism. Problem Solved. ;)

Quote from: acerzw on October 06, 2007, 05:25:13 AM
OOPS.... I was not aware of comment 32, which when taken with the fact that the TPU did not work in bath, make it seem highly likely that the TPU will not operate reliably for an extended period of time and therefore is not likely to be able to be used as a continuous power generation device.

If this problem cannot be overcome then the value of the TPU will be severely diminished when compared to other OU devices...

SM seems to imply that the vibration and gyroscopics effect are a necessary side effect of a properly working TPU, if this is the case this heat and vibration will indeed cause the material of the TPU coil to degrade over time and fail....

This is not a good development...

Really hope this can be overcome, though I have my doubts... otherwise a serious waste of effort by many, but probably enough learnt here for many to produce viable OU devices that do not rely on this particular destructive effect...

Does anyone know what the maximum running time for the various size TPU's were before catastrophic failure was likely to occur/did occur?

Acerzw, hoping this is a pessimistic post which is not true...

Yes.!..Really a  waste of time 4 you, no point if it cant run forever.Move on to something else that is complete, fully understood and with no unwanted side effects.

@Mannix and HopeforHumanity

Bare with me on this, I do want the TPU to work, I have immense respect for you and the others from the early days. I know you don't want to hear this kind of thing with so much time on this under your belts, but consider....

Hope, realise that cooling will not resolve the problem regarding the coil material degenerating, the degeneration is caused in the material at a molecular level by the stresses of the field interactions in the coil, the heat is merely a byproduct of this molecular action, cooling the TPU will not reduce the molecular stress in the coil and thus will not stop its material degrading...

The are only two ways I can see stop the coil material degenerating, one is to make the coil from a more resilient material, which will likely dampen the effectiveness of the internal interactions, the effect the TPU relies on to operate, thus degrading or nullifying its operation completely...

The other possible, thought doubtful, way around this would be to stop the TPU periodically and run its load from excess output power, which if available had previously been stored in batteries. Once the tpu coil material has rested then restart the TPU... far from ideal however as you then need the batteries which negates the TPU's usefulness as a portable power unit...

SM stated that the objective of showing the TPU to investors, which was a big undertaking for him, was to get further development money, he knew the device as he had it was not viable due to the fact that it fails after prolonged use...

Also it occurs that the vibration and extreme stress on the coil makes the TPU essentially the same as if it was mechanical, it is solid state but has mechanical stresses as a necessary part of its operation. It therefore has some of the disadvantages of a mechanical device, in terms of possible failure modes, but also some unique ones of its own, i.e. resonant cascade failure.

That would explain why UEC has not developed it, no conspiracy, in its current form it has a fundamental flaw, it is not reliable, the base line for any viable product. Given the potential profits from a working reliable device in terms even of licensing, let alone full production, I suspect that they and others have thrown an unbelievable amount of financial and human resources at this problem but have not been able to overcome it as the effects are essential to the devices ability to give the level of power output it can, but cannot sustain...

Another reason for its non-development must also be due to these comments:

33. However, you must have an emergency KILL switch. A way of cutting off all the control frequencies simultaneity. This kill switch must be, manual and also connected through a heat sensor buried within the collector coil it should automatically stop the function of the unit before it self destructs on it's own. This is important for obvious reasons. Also the kill switch should also be connected to cut off whenever it measures over voltage.

23. Without the control unit constantly monitoring the frequencies of operation and making the necessary changes to keep the whole thing off exact conversion frequency, then the unit would very quickly destroy it's self.

These comments tend to indicate that even SM with his expertise and access to equipment which he says was way beyond what most commercial labs had, was unable to due to the complex field interactions (probably 3 coils & 3 collectors with both transverse and longitudinal fields some of which are rotating, heterodyning and resonating) to guarantee 100% that the control circuit would always stop the TPU from  suffering a catastrophic resonant cascade failure... hence his emphasis on the need for a kill switch.

Note, even Tom Bearden with his encyclopedic cutting edge theoretical knowledge, is unable himself to model the field interactions within the MEG theoretically, and the MEG's fields are most likely several orders of magnitude simpler than the TPU's.

However there is no guarantee that by the time the internal coil heat sensor SM mentions kicks in or the kill switch is operated that it is not to late for the TPU or potentially the user.

It should also be noted that even if the sensor and kill switch were effective there are also likely to be potential external triggers for a catastrophic resonant cascade failure in a TPU which are inherently unpredictable and likely cannot be effectively shielded against. For instance a strong magnetic field in the immediate local environment (fridge turning on? Mobile phone?) of the TPU or perhaps even a large fluctuation in the Earths EM field caused by, but not limited to, any of these:

   HAARP discharge
   Burst from a Coronal Mass Ejection Event on the sun (ever more frequent)
   Soviet Woodpecker grid activation
   (possibly the Northern Lights if the TPU was nearby?)

might initiate the cascade effect by influencing the internal fields directly or by resonant OU energy feedback, causing them to go outside the envelope of capability of the controller circuit to compensate...

I am heading towards the idea the the TPU is a great device for short term emergency power generation, but for the above reasons would make a lowsy long term power solution... due to its inherent reliability issues and dangerousness...

I am beginning to feel more sympathetic to SM's plight when I consider the above.. though the Governments interest (BTW where can I read SM's comments about this?) does show that they maybe thought these problems could be solved?

Or perhaps more likely they were worried that it might be mis-used with a bit of further development in an enhanced resonant cascade failure mode as a either an EMP grenade or worse a local scalar wave snap device, as described by Tom Bearden.

Acerzw.... do you see?  ;)

Quote from: HopeForHumanity on October 06, 2007, 05:36:08 AM
Computers heat up too, even to self destructive levels. I don't think it's very practical compared to other electronic devices.

Point being: Use the power from the tpu to power it's own cooling mechanism. Problem Solved. ;)

the heat in computers (precisely the CPU) is caused by the size of the electron channels within the cpu. Basically it is the actual resistance of the material making up the CPU that causes that heat. Not to mention the obvious fact that computers are basically a "brute" force method of flowing electrons, hence the resistance.This shortfall will however be bypassed when optical CPUs are made; then one wont have to worry about the electron resistance as much.

the TPU on the other hand is different since it doesnt help to put a heat sink or a nice big fan on it; mainly bc it isnt the resistance but the clashing of the frequencies at atomic levels.

until someone fully understands what makes this TPU technology, we cant bypass this heat byproduct. I am sure the military has figured this out by now; either that or they would need to have like 3 TPUs and switch between them for power generation, lol.

devilzangel
..

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 10:28:39 PM

and i wont mention the devices that must be used to experiment with here.

Lindsay

Ahh yes, the tubes :)
i almost forgot them  ;D

I am currently exploring what changes at what frequency of the pulsed field.

M.

@Tao

Answering your questions - My comments in blue:

Where did you source your iron rods from, are they pure iron?

They are from bundles of marking flags sold in a hardware store. The diameter is a little over 2mm. They are somewhat stiff but brittle. I am sure they are just a very low quality steel. The bundle length is about 15 inches an diameter about 1.2 inches (fits in the spool center)

Am I to take it that you feedback power through your simple oscillator and your 2n3055 blew? Or did it blow simply because of too much driving power? :)
In this case I'm sure it blew because of overdrive or flyback. Base bias was just a variable resistor from the collector pin. PS current stayed under 1A. Voltage applied was 3.5DC. Collector coil is a 800ft. spool of 22ga. magnet wire. Feedback coil is a 1200ft. spool of 24ga. magnet wire. The 22ga. coil was between the collector pin and B+. The 24ga. coil is between B- and a capacitor (.1mfd) the cap is then connected to the transitor base.  A dirt simple 'blow me up circuit'

How strong were those 1 Hz thumps? Just wondering...

The bundle has some weight to it. Movement was axial and radial. Axial movement was enough to feel with fingers. Radial movement would have broken sheet glass from a common window.

I must say, the parametric array, and even more so, a simple ring formed of iron wire with driving coil(s) around it, driving a lower frequency 'longitudinal' 'sound/vibration' through the iron ring and at key successive moments when the LAST sound/vibration made its way back to its starting point, another was generated/driven into the iron so that these longitudinal sounds/vibrations ADDED, certainly would seem to related directly to our old friend the Hungarian: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3068.0.html

Yes. The Hungarian again. I have no doubt his work can explain most of this - if not all.

@ Duff,

I have been unable to find the following two statements in either of my .PDF's or noted.  I would like to know your source for them please:  You attribute them to SM.

2. It may be relevant to convey the importance of the relationship between the resonances/wire lengths of the control/collector coils. I think of it a rotational magnetic reciever. Some of the tests that I have carried on the coils that have visible control windings indicate frequencies in the megahertz range

AND

9. We are Searching for a rotational Kicking field that can be accelerated by applying harmonics.


Thanks,
Bruce

Kicks from a vacuum tube?

I don't know what any books say as the ones referenced were not found by me but think about this:

A simple rectifier (get those dirty little SS thoughts out of your mind - TUBES) Even more simple than most would think of - I'm saying 'hot cathode'. That means the heater element is the only cathode - no metal sheath around it - no separate connection for the cathode. The only two elements in the tube are the plate and the heater.

Heater elements were made of many different things but most would be excellent magnetostrictive metals. And guess what? Like GK says 'the light is a residual effect' and so is the heat. The first thing that happens when you apply current to the heater is it has a sudden increase in length - then it glows. What about the required magnetic field you say? It is a current carrying wire - and the tube is a mini particle accelerator. What else do you want?

How does the heater voltage appear on the plate signal? Because the heater was AC. Hot cathode tubes were nasty amplifiers until some tricky LC heater circuits were done AND the separate cathode was introduced. The alternating heater current would modulate the plate signal ââ,¬â€œ and sometimes create a feedback loop, a great source of harmonics.

Anybody with some age has experienced this kick. Scopes are one-eyed monsters. Donââ,¬â,,¢t let then ââ,¬Ëœnarrow YOUR bandwidthââ,¬â,,¢. You old folks remember the ââ,¬ËœWUMPFââ,¬â,,¢ sound when you turned on the old tube radio? The heaters were not lit at that point!
How about now when youââ,¬â,,¢re driving and some idiot has his stereo too loud? All you hear is ââ,¬ËœTHUMP-THUMPââ,¬Â¦THUMP-THUMPââ,¬â,,¢. And when the fool cracks his window the thumping noise goes away but you notice it wasnââ,¬â,,¢t the same rhythm of his music.

If it gets hot - SO WHAT? Heat is energy. I'll make use of it.
Bash the inventor - Already been done - wasting forum space IS MY JOB!
Only searching for the truth? Good - so am I.
Witholding information for personal gain sucks. Witholding information to prevent harm is bad enough.


No, Bruce. I'm thinking of something else.

Enough. I'll take a pill and go back to the bench.

Quote from: BEP on October 06, 2007, 12:55:38 PM

Heater elements were made of many different things but most would be excellent magnetostrictive metals. And guess what? Like GK says 'the light is a residual effect' and so is the heat. The first thing that happens when you apply current to the heater is it has a sudden increase in length - then it glows. What about the required magnetic field you say? It is a current carrying wire - and the tube is a mini particle accelerator. What else do you want?

If it gets hot - SO WHAT? Heat is energy. I'll make use of it.
Bash the inventor - Already been done - wasting forum space IS MY JOB!
Only searching for the truth? Good - so am I.
Witholding information for personal gain sucks. Witholding information to prevent harm is bad enough.

Hey BEP .. if the point is to use heat energy, there are plenty of other much efficient methods of harnessing heat energy mate.

the fact is, the byproduct of a "functioning" TPU, heat, is BAD for any operating generation device. It acts like a built in timer for the eventual degradation of the generator. JUST like all other devices that get heated in operation.

do you think CPU manufacturers really like having heat? I hope not.  :o

*** To everyone:
stop with all the preconceptions everyone!! Just bc SM made a TPU with heat as a byproduct doesn't mean a highly evolved TPU technology will also have heat; it is NOT a necessity.

Dont tell me people here have tried every material under the sun to try to make this device; all i have seen are failed attempts to copy/replicate what SM implies/says are the materials for construction. No one here has the right to say "you must use this material". Even if you are a great grandson of Tesla.  ;D

either SM is a very very poor explainer; or he is very very good at misleading. So think OUTSIDE the box!!!!  :o

in the end all of us here all trying to free ourselves from the people who want to suppress humanity. 8)

devilzangel
..

I'm not implying that heat is required for the function.
If it is going to happen - I'll just make use of it.

.

Quote from: BEP on October 06, 2007, 10:27:53 AM
@Tao

Answering your questions - My comments in blue:

Where did you source your iron rods from, are they pure iron?

They are from bundles of marking flags sold in a hardware store. The diameter is a little over 2mm. They are somewhat stiff but brittle. I am sure they are just a very low quality steel. The bundle length is about 15 inches an diameter about 1.2 inches (fits in the spool center)

Am I to take it that you feedback power through your simple oscillator and your 2n3055 blew? Or did it blow simply because of too much driving power? :)
In this case I'm sure it blew because of overdrive or flyback. Base bias was just a variable resistor from the collector pin. PS current stayed under 1A. Voltage applied was 3.5DC. Collector coil is a 800ft. spool of 22ga. magnet wire. Feedback coil is a 1200ft. spool of 24ga. magnet wire. The 22ga. coil was between the collector pin and B+. The 24ga. coil is between B- and a capacitor (.1mfd) the cap is then connected to the transitor base.  A dirt simple 'blow me up circuit'

How strong were those 1 Hz thumps? Just wondering...

The bundle has some weight to it. Movement was axial and radial. Axial movement was enough to feel with fingers. Radial movement would have broken sheet glass from a common window.

I must say, the parametric array, and even more so, a simple ring formed of iron wire with driving coil(s) around it, driving a lower frequency 'longitudinal' 'sound/vibration' through the iron ring and at key successive moments when the LAST sound/vibration made its way back to its starting point, another was generated/driven into the iron so that these longitudinal sounds/vibrations ADDED, certainly would seem to related directly to our old friend the Hungarian: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3068.0.html

Yes. The Hungarian again. I have no doubt his work can explain most of this - if not all.

Thanks!

Quote from: BEP on October 06, 2007, 12:55:38 PM
Kicks from a vacuum tube?

I don't know what any books say as the ones referenced were not found by me but think about this:

A simple rectifier (get those dirty little SS thoughts out of your mind - TUBES) Even more simple than most would think of - I'm saying 'hot cathode'. That means the heater element is the only cathode - no metal sheath around it - no separate connection for the cathode. The only two elements in the tube are the plate and the heater.

Heater elements were made of many different things but most would be excellent magnetostrictive metals. And guess what? Like GK says 'the light is a residual effect' and so is the heat. The first thing that happens when you apply current to the heater is it has a sudden increase in length - then it glows. What about the required magnetic field you say? It is a current carrying wire - and the tube is a mini particle accelerator. What else do you want?

How does the heater voltage appear on the plate signal? Because the heater was AC. Hot cathode tubes were nasty amplifiers until some tricky LC heater circuits were done AND the separate cathode was introduced. The alternating heater current would modulate the plate signal ? and sometimes create a feedback loop, a great source of harmonics.

Anybody with some age has experienced this kick. Scopes are one-eyed monsters. Don?t let then ?narrow YOUR bandwidth?. You old folks remember the ?WUMPF? sound when you turned on the old tube radio? The heaters were not lit at that point!
How about now when you?re driving and some idiot has his stereo too loud? All you hear is ?THUMP-THUMP?THUMP-THUMP?. And when the fool cracks his window the thumping noise goes away but you notice it wasn?t the same rhythm of his music.

If it gets hot - SO WHAT? Heat is energy. I'll make use of it.
Bash the inventor - Already been done - wasting forum space IS MY JOB!
Only searching for the truth? Good - so am I.
Witholding information for personal gain sucks. Witholding information to prevent harm is bad enough.

Very good points BEP.

People, we have spent so much time trying to interpret SM's meaning of the KICK. The problem always being that in one instance he seems to refer to the KICK being mechanical, and in another instance he is referring to the KICK as solely electrical, as in increased power output. Why can't it be both? And if both, what better explanation than the KICK's relation to magnetostriction. After all, magnetostrictive metals, are also certainly conductors, so they can exhibit PHYSICAL KICKS AND ELECTRICAL KICKS all in the same instances, like BEP says.

SM's first look at the KICK came from the old TUBES, where he saw the KICKS, and you can be damned sure that being an 'audio guy', using tubes, he would certainly have heard the THUMP as BEP describees, and he would have seen what happens in the TUBES when this happens, and maybe, just maybe, his hearing these THUMPS and seeing these KICKS caused SM to do a little research and try to figure out WHY these were happening?!? Perhaps that is exactly how he found that one book he referenced for us, the one describing the KICKs interaction with the Earth? Wouldn't you do some research if you were wondering what the THUMPS were and why the elements in the TUBES do that?

All I am saying is, the use of magnetostrictive elements (steel, iron, etc.) certainly seem to fit everything SM was saying, but also seem to fit the likely research path of which SM embarked on to create the TPUs...

More later, as always........

Quote from: devilzangel on October 06, 2007, 01:27:53 PM
*** To everyone:
stop with all the preconceptions everyone!! Just bc SM made a TPU with heat as a byproduct doesn't mean a highly evolved TPU technology will also have heat; it is NOT a necessity.

Are we aiming to develop a "highly-evolved" TPU or just the TPU a la Mark? C'mon, crawl before you walk.

ALL the TPU devices Mark demonstrates exhibit wasteful heat, and this is part and parcel of the operation. So be careful about making preconceptions yourself here. Do some homework folks.

Quote
either SM is a very very poor explainer; or he is very very good at misleading. So think OUTSIDE the box!!!!  :o

devilzangel

I'm afraid it is a case of neither. Your own inability to understand is what the problem is here.

Why folks won't do their homework to understand the information provided to them, staggers the imagination. I see now why SM was/is so disappointed with the lack of understanding, thinking and insight demonstrated by folks here. In particular most of the golden clues he gave us have either been ignored entirely, or misconstrued and misinterpreted to be something completely different.

I guess reading the full emails over 30 times has made me "dummer" z_p_e ;

I have also read your info too mate; dont get me wrong; For all the genius in this place, i wouldn't be surprised if it is one with the least "experience" in this field who would "stumble" upon the answer.

devilzangel
..

TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Quote from: tosky on October 06, 2007, 04:33:18 PM
TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Exactly what I was thinking before. If for instance we HAD to live with the HEAT 'problem', we could easily use this technique as a sure fire method to avoid the HEAT issue, disregarding what you could use that HEAT energy for....

So, say a TPU could run for 1 hour and then it would get too hot, then you had to let it cool for 30 minutes for it to return to normal temp, you could just use two TPUs, run one for 1 hour, then switch to the other TPU which will run for another hour, and once that second TPU is ready to 'cool off', the first TPU would have already been cool for 30 minutes, so it would be very easy to switch back again. If it was the case that the cooling time was longer than the running time, you could just use 3 TPUs, which would easily solve that timing problem.

In regard to using the HEAT, that are A LOT of ways to USE the HEAT energy that is coming off a TPU, thereby cooling it enough to run forever.

Either way it's done, the HEAT 'issue' isn't really one...

It was an issue for SM because he was only considering the TPU in and of itself, without heat transmuting additions or multiples TPUs, he was only considering any single TPU device, in and of itself, so FOR SM, and his mindset of looking at the TPU like so, the heat 'issue' is an issue...

Quote from: duff on October 06, 2007, 01:57:26 PM

2. It may be relevant to convey the importance of the relationship between the resonances/wire lengths of the control/collector coils. I think of it a rotational magnetic reciever. Some of the tests that I have carried on the coils that have visible control windings indicate frequencies in the megahertz range

AND

9. We are Searching for a rotational Kicking field that can be accelerated by applying harmonics.

I believe the first is SM and the second is Mannix.

Heat production in a TPU is not a big problem, if you use elastic composite polymer ( soft polymer )material in a core. If the core material is too hard, so core material is mechanically stressed more by magnetostrictive particles when they are expanded under magnetic field, and this produces heat.

To have energy from external magnetic field, you must wobble the electron precession axis by phonon field ( electron-phonon coupling ). Phonon has a push effect to electron, and this causes also electron precession axis to wobble. During phonon pulses electron precession axis is aligned again to be in parallel direction with an external magnetic field. Static magnetic does the work and is a source for the energy.
Here is a calculator to look how electron precession frequency depends on external magnetic field.
To wobble electron precession by phonon pulses, you need to know this frequency.

http://gamma.ethz.ch/online/esr/vcalc/index.html

Esa

Quote from: EMdevices on October 04, 2007, 10:33:17 AM

Regarding the upside down turn off phenomena, I'm not realy sure why that happens?
and it sounds like SM didn't either.   Once we duplicate this thing we'll be able to experiment and find out why.

EM

The upside down turn off phenomena is because of Gravity's interaction.
This is also responsible for the weight loss and it is a result of the proper wing design.

M.

Quote from: -[marco]- on October 07, 2007, 09:24:20 AM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 04, 2007, 10:33:17 AM

Regarding the upside down turn off phenomena, I'm not realy sure why that happens?
and it sounds like SM didn't either.   Once we duplicate this thing we'll be able to experiment and find out why.

EM

The upside down turn off phenomena is because of Gravity's interaction.
This is also responsible for the weight loss and it is a result of the proper wing design.

M.

Gravity can be involved here, but earth`s magnetic field`s direction is different in between north and south pole, also in between northern and southern part of the earth.Also earth`s magnetic field direction is almost vertical on the surface of the earth. When you change the direction of the magnetic field, so changes also direction of the electon spin precession. Now, if you have opposite electron spin direction in a tpu, than it is in a external field, you can not pump energy from this external magnetic field.
You can compare the electron spin precession to wobbling in a macro scale world, where spinning gyroscope wobbles when it spins. If you take energy from this wobble moment, it does not take energy from  the moving ( spinning ) mass energy of the gyroscope.

Esa

Well, if the source of energy has a certain direction or polarity, then flipping the device would make it "pump" the wrong direction.  A sensor for this "polarity" would permit the connections to be reversed and flipping would no longer be a problem.

Now about SM's statement on finding the "circuit potential"...huge clue if we can figure it out.

Those that subscribe to the notion that a magnetic vortex is one major aspect of the device's operation, know that gravity does not come into play here.

@Grumpy: Conceptually yes; good points.

Tesla provides the answers to both points, and EM has touched on the second point a couple of times.

well, i have already seen it in one of my last experiments.
actually it was a couple of hours ago i noticed it.  :)
from here my bet is on gravity.

M.

In the old days, when tuning a parallel resonant line you could connect two solid wires to a light bulb and slide it from one end of the line to the other. The light would go dark and bright depending upon what part of the wave you were tapping.

You could also decide on the point you wanted - fix the light there - and adjust frequency until the light showed it was on a node or anti-node. I see no reason the same can't be done on a TPU.

IMO - gravity does play a part and so does a vortex. Gravity - as much as it does with a spinning top.

Spin rotation and precession direction must be correct for any similar device so a TPU must be helically polarized. The UP and DOWN vortices would be opposite rotation so of couse, turning it upside down would kill it. The vertical E field South and North would be reverse so it probably had to be turned upside to work down-under. That is if it was one of the types that had equal construction top and bottom.
------------

On a side note: I'm finding the fastest possible pulse obtainable is from the flyback of a coil. The problem there is the charge pulse zero's the effect. The solutions to the zeroing?
1. DC bias applied to the that coil or bettter yet to a secondary of that coil to keep the energy on one side of zero.
2. Just the right size, strength and placement of a magnet to do the same (on a secondary).

The result isn't seen when scoping the primary. I'm not shorting the BEMF. I'm making use of it as it seems to be the cleanest of all pulses. (I'll risk using the term BEMF because I know those who could answer the question here easily know what I mean).

Does anyone has a better solution?

I don't agree.  A bathtub water vortex on planet Earth only exists because gravity exists.  It doesn't happen in space.
It only happens if Earth rotates.  The rotation of Earth is necessary to catalyze a water vortex.

Gravity exists most likely because Earth's mass causes aether to push objects to the surface.
So the aether that is pushing us to the surface can be tricked into turning and spiraling and thereby forming an aether vortex.
Turn the device upside down and it stops working, unless you reverse direction of the magnetic vortex.
It is possible that the magnetic vortex entrains the much more significant aether vortex, but that it is still necessary to act as a catalyzer.  It could be that a magnetic vortex "entangles" an aether vortex.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 11:20:49 AM
Those that subscribe to the notion that a magnetic vortex is one major aspect of the device's operation, know that gravity does not come into play here.
[snip]

Gravity may (and I stress may) indeed play a role in determining the direction or polarization of energy utilized by the TPU in operation, but the energy being extracted, converted,  or generated by the TPU is not coming from gravity itself.

Tesla in his experiments with RE knew this energy was directional and flowed from space towards earth, but even he apparently did not speculate as to what caused the flow in this direction.

"Antigrav" effects, if apparent in TPU operation need not be a result of manipulating gravity itself, but could in reality be the result of magnetic vortex/TPU attraction, just as two opposite mag fields attract. At the power levels being generated by the TPU's, it is quite conceivable that the devices could lose weight during operation.

Sweet's VTA exhibited "antigravity" effects as well when operated at high output, but the device itself does not tap gravity as its source. IMHO, the VTA and TPU operate on very similar principles.

Think of planet Earth as a spherical bathtub, filled with aether "water" extending infinitely in all directions.

A spinning magnetic and/or electric field opens up a drain plug right through the center of the toroid.

Then the aether vortex goes pouring through, down the drain.

A TPU is a bathtub with electrically-operated drain plug.

Earl

The bottom of the bathtub is the surface of Earth.

Water vortexes form because gravity has an effect on water.

Since gravity does not affect a magnetic field, how can gravity come into play in an electromagnetic device?

Another thought to share - maybe it is useful here:

I feel very strongly were are indeed dealing with three frequencies here - I should say pulse rate frequencies, sine, if you wish. Either way the result will be sine.
But not in the way I have seen discussed here (no I haven't read EVERY post so forgive me if I re-hash something).

My previous toys only required one base frequency. The 'Third' is the component of the base frequencies of the two separate coils (oddly enough after joining this forum I decided to fire-up in a low level mode and check.) Mine was not meant to be stable so the component varies wildly but centers in the Schumann range. The component is what did the dirty work but only lasted a few cycles before the caps were done.

Also the two bases were identical. One in the top coil and an opposite rotation but same frequency in the bottom coil (Phase and rotation difference only). The component was created by the two. All three wind up appearing in both coils. The two separate oscillators are connected in a multi-vibrator fashion.  So the two IGBT's never fire at exactly the same time. And yes, I use magnetostriction as the first step.

The object was to make separate sourced waves and any harmonics meet in a way to multiply the area of the resultant wave. Separate waves of the same source generally cancel. This was with the belief that a wave's energy is the square of its area. When such waves meet in this way you start squaring upon squaring and wind up with astronomical numbers. I have not tried this with transverse waves.

If nothing else this is a great way to explode caps and cause radios to quit  ;D

I didn't engineer in a means to automatically hold it back or follow the mechanical/resonance changes. The most I wanted was about three giant pulses.

The big difference I'm only now seeing - I have no means of collecting the organized (particles?) and keeping it just off-center for a continuous run.

I'm working on a solution for both......

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 12:59:34 PM
Water vortexes form because gravity has an effect on water.

Since gravity does not affect a magnetic field, how can gravity come into play in an electromagnetic device?

I'd like to answer that but I've already taken up too much forum space and need to get back to the bench.

For right now I'll just say it is only an opinion based upon past experiences. I mentioned it it the last dancing magnet thread and haven't been able to prove everything drilled into my head. -yet

This is for whoever still thinks there is NOT a magnetic vortex at play in the TPU:

Here is a phrase from the famous Carl Hurst letter:

17: The imploding television story is very interesting.
Could Mark?s device be close to tapping into or creating such a powerful magnetic vortex?
Has he seen any evidence of magnetic attraction of any objects in or near the toroids?

Do you know the  very clear answer (bold and in capitals!!!) from SM???

here it is.... read it til you never forget again....

and #17: YES

nothing more nothing less......

Leaves only two options:
1. You don't believe SM or
2. There is a magnetic vortex at play.

regards,

Robert

hi  :)
as my memory serves me right there was also something about drawing a lens when velocity becomes extreme.
some people claim gravity itself is a electric/magnetic force.
i do not know what it is, but i do think it is convertible into another form or forms of energy.

is there anybody getting positive results or am i the only one seeing intresting things?

M.

Quote from: Grumpy on October 06, 2007, 11:08:48 PM

Quote from: duff on October 06, 2007, 01:57:26 PM

2. It may be relevant to convey the importance of the relationship between the resonances/wire lengths of the control/collector coils. I think of it a rotational magnetic reciever. Some of the tests that I have carried on the coils that have visible control windings indicate frequencies in the megahertz range

AND

9. We are Searching for a rotational Kicking field that can be accelerated by applying harmonics.

I believe the first is SM and the second is Mannix.

It would appear from the style, that the entire quote is from Mannix. I know that these quotes are not in the SM material for sure. See Grumpy's original post of the enitre quote here: (Perhaps he remembers where he got it.)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1872.msg37186#msg37186

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 12:59:34 PM
Water vortexes form because gravity has an effect on water.

If the Earth did not rotate, gravity alone would not cause any water vortexes.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 12:59:34 PM
Since gravity does not affect a magnetic field, how can gravity come into play in an electromagnetic device?

Do you understand that your body is NOT being attracted to planet Earth?
Do you understand that your body is being PUSHED to planet Earth by aether flow?

Do you understand that the Moon is NOT orbiting Earth because of mutual attraction balancing centrifugal force?
Can you visualize a thin flat stretched rubber sheet with planet Earth causing a deformation in this surface and in this indented cone the moon is rolling around?  Should the Moon's velocity increase it would rise up towards the rubber surface.  As the Moon's velocity increases further it continues up the cone until it reaches the rubber surface, at which point it no longer orbits the Earth, but flies off into space.  Astronomers call this escape velocity.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GRAVITATIONAL ATTRACTION.

Gravity is only a "symptom" of the flow of aether caused by space-time deformation.  Mass causes space-time to deform.
Electrostatic potential and electrodynamic rotation are know to cause space-time deformation.

This fictional term gravity can be equated to chariots pulling celestial bodies across the sky.  Gravity as two bodies attracting each other, as you think of it, does not exist.
Think of the 2-D rubber sheet example above, then wrap your mind around a 3-D version of it.  You will then be able to start understanding aether and space-time deformations.

Can you visualize in the 2-D rubber sheet example, that you are sitting on Earth's surface and your TPU with it's rotating vortex,   and all of a sudden the cone on which the Earth is depressed starts deforming.  First a little dimple, then a long finger, then it gets bigger and wow, the rubber surface stretches and forms a cone right into the center of your TPU.  The TPU has synthesized a virtual mass so great that it deforms space-time.

So yes, gravity can be involved in the TPU, even though gravity does not exist.  ;)

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Earl on October 07, 2007, 02:30:36 PM
If the Earth did not rotate, gravity alone would not cause any water vortexes.

Indeed water does not require the rotation of the earth to rotate into a vortex. As long as gravity is present, the water will form into a vortex on its own, but the vortex direction will be determined by chaotic imperfections in the holding container, and hence will be random on a case by case basis.

In fact, water can be "encouraged" to rotate in a direction opposite its natural tendency due to the earth's rotation, simply by stirring it up manually before "pulling the plug".

So for all intents and purposes, water will form into a vortex under the influence of a rotating earth or not...as long as "gravity" is present.

Quote

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 12:59:34 PM
Since gravity does not affect a magnetic field, how can gravity come into play in an electromagnetic device?

Do you understand that your body is NOT being attracted to planet Earth?
Do you understand that your body is being PUSHED to planet Earth by aether flow?

Do you understand that the Moon is NOT orbiting Earth because of mutual attraction balancing centrifugal force?
Can you visualize a thin flat stretched rubber sheet with planet Earth causing a deformation in this surface and in this indented cone the moon is rolling around?  Should the Moon's velocity increase it would rise up towards the rubber surface.  As the Moon's velocity increases further it continues up the cone until it reaches the rubber surface, at which point it no longer orbits the Earth, but flies off into space.  Astronomers call this escape velocity.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GRAVITATIONAL ATTRACTION.

Gravity is only a "symptom" of the flow of aether caused by space-time deformation.  Mass causes space-time to deform.
Electrostatic potential and electrodynamic rotation are know to cause space-time deformation.

This fictional term gravity can be equated to chariots pulling celestial bodies across the sky.  Gravity as two bodies attracting each other, as you think of it, does not exist.
Think of the 2-D rubber sheet example above, then wrap your mind around a 3-D version of it.  You will then be able to start understanding aether and space-time deformations.

Can you visualize in the 2-D rubber sheet example, that you are sitting on Earth's surface and your TPU with it's rotating vortex,   and all of a sudden the cone on which the Earth is depressed starts deforming.  First a little dimple, then a long finger, then it gets bigger and wow, the rubber surface stretches and forms a cone right into the center of your TPU.  The TPU has synthesized a virtual mass so great that it deforms space-time.

So yes, gravity can be involved in the TPU, even though gravity does not exist.  ;)

Regards, Earl

Call "gravity" whatever you wish; its effect is what matters, and the fact that gravity has no significant effect on electromagnetics,  can only mean the TPU does not operate on any principles involving gravity.

I'd be happy to entertain the idea of a gravity-magnetism interaction, and if you were able to intelligently elaborate on one, you'd surely be up for a Nobel prize.

.

Interesting arguments - all. I'll put my two cents in just to hear the change jingle.

Yes, you can stir it the wrong direction and it will go down the drain still rotating that direction. However, if you have enough flow to watch at some point the vortex loose momentum and will correct the direction and wind up rotating the way it would have without interference. I don't remember how old I was when I tried this but I was short enough to watch it happen in a milk carrier. That would probably put me around 6 or 7.

I remember watching a PBS show about slow motion photography. Some of the examples were dealing with water flow. One showed water being pumped out a spigot that was miles from the pump. When they showed slow-mo it was obviously coming out in pulses. The explanation was the pulse rate was that of the pump.
The same show displayed how water always has rotation when travelling through a hose even when the pump used a piston. I remember asking an ME why the coolant pumps in the plant all ran the same direction. He looked at me like I was stupid and said all pumps run in that direction unless you need it south of the equator. At that point I thought he was the one that was stupid.

Maybe I'm the one still stupid.

The point is everything - down to the particle level IS rotation. One of my favorite rants 'there is no such thing as a straight line'.

This energy I'm after is disorganized and therefore null. I need to organize it by stirring the pot the right direction. Once it is all spinning the right direction it becomes potential. In order to use that potential I need to suddenly redirect it. Since it is not possible to add or subtract from this potential I can only convert some of it by forcing a sudden change in direction.

This is amazingly simple after rotation is achieved. You just add a biased solenoid type coil at the point where the opposite rotations of the vortex meet (notice I used a singular form). The magnetic field (lack of a better word) causes the traveling particle/charge/spin to exit vertical E field at a right angle - right through the coil windings. Once in the winding's field it happily jumps in line with the current already flowing in the coil.

Against the rules induction does occur.

BTW

@Earl

When you pull that plug on the virtual drain (TPU). You better duck because not only is it draining from above but also below. And where does the dirty water go? Out the sides and drenches you ;)
>>>>>>>>>

My bench time today was fruitful. I now have a control coil that will only create a 'squeeze' in one direction. The function tests well as standalone. I can't wait to put it on my EMP frame but the new coil set is still in the etching tank.

What is a TPU? A wavewatcher EMP ran in reverse with a collector added and a few ounces of batteries instead of a couple hundred pounds of caps and batteries  ;D

The control coil is dirt simple and I believe some folks have used variations of it so ask if interested.

ALL of the above is my opinion. When I have a working TPU that doesn't kill me I'll stick it all on a jump drive and upload when I get to civilization. Until then or some fantastic discovery I'll not wade through server disconnects and hours of connect time for a couple of photos. 

BEP,

Of course we're interested.

If you wouldn't mind, a description and small drawing of what you are doing with this control coil would be appreciated.

Thanks.

BEP,

Quote
This energy I'm after is disorganized and therefore null. I need to organize it by stirring the pot the right direction. Once it is all spinning the right direction it becomes potential. In order to use that potential I need to suddenly redirect it. Since it is not possible to add or subtract from this potential I can only convert some of it by forcing a sudden change in direction.

This is amazingly simple after rotation is achieved. You just add a biased solenoid type coil at the point where the opposite rotations of the vortex meet (notice I used a singular form). The magnetic field (lack of a better word) causes the traveling particle/charge/spin to exit vertical E field at a right angle - right through the coil windings. Once in the winding's field it happily jumps in line with the current already flowing in the coil.

Against the rules induction does occur.

Is this picture similar to what you are thinking here?
Picture source: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/magvtx.htm

Naudin goes on to explore tapping this energy by placing pickup coils at the vertex:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/dvtgv1.htm

So you would place a solenoid where Naudin has his pickup coils?

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 04:51:57 AM
I remember when it was mentioned that when a running tpu was put in a bath of water it was a complete disaster becauseÃ,  in the air some give to the vibration is allowed and the water did not allow it.

a very interesting discussion here.

Another wonderful confirmation for the magnetostrictive/vibrational mode of operation.Ã,  Thanks Mannix.Ã, Ã,  So, the device must be allowed to VIBRATE "freely", and I say "freely" because the only damping on the vibration must be due only to the output power being generated (induction produces a retarding force on the moving object/magnet).

I was gone for a few days, but this week I'm starting to implement the LINEAR concept I presented.Ã,  Ã,  While I was gone I've been thinking,Ã,  what if TESLA'sÃ, power source ( the box that had rods inserted) functioned simular to this linear concept?Ã, 

@BEP, I'll be right behind you in those experiments.Ã,  Good thinking in the design.Ã, Ã,  Using multiple thin Iron wires in a bundle will keep down the eddy current losses and the HEAT.Ã,  The low 1 Hz resonance is amazing. I was getting 120 Hz, but I deduced it was comming from the grid through my transformer (overloaded)Ã,  :)Ã, Ã,  I need to start using batteries.

EM

Might try reading through this wiki page, I find the ribbon tweeter an interesting read, plus
  all of the other unusual speaker types, some of these I have never heard of before 8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter

Quote from: BEP on October 07, 2007, 07:51:16 PM

The point is everything - down to the particle level IS rotation.

Yup.

and the spins stay where you put them until something changes them.  Amazing. 

Kinda funny that it moves along with us at like 70K MPH...

Quote from: -[marco]- on October 07, 2007, 02:01:50 PM
is there anybody getting positive results or am i the only one seeing intresting things?

According to my cigarette smoke I had some slow rotation just before bedtime. Gotta work ya know  ::)

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 09:02:26 PM
So you would place a solenoid where Naudin has his pickup coils?

Yes. The axis of the coil will be the axis of the funnels. Actually you could think of it as an SM style collector with multiple turns along the axis. I haven't decided if I should put the bias in a bifilar winding or in the solenoid coil directly.

I'll do a sketch in the morning for the coil. I'm alright with ACAD but stumble on MS Paint.

Basically it is a rope wound coil like you find on CRT necks except it is folded into a C pattern. This way you don't need to alternate polarity or worry about flyback misdirecting current or inducing into the secondary. Apply a pulse - the entire inside is North. Remove the pulse - North inside subsides to South while the sides spike as North. So either applying or removing current either squeezes the hose or pushes the current away from that point.
The C will lie on its back with the bottom facing inward. The bottom will be used to promote rotation in the center and the inside and sides will squeeze the hose.

I have one at each quadrant and I am currently sequencing them with an lpt port interface. Hitting them with the BCD equivilant of 1000,0100,0010,0001 repeat. 0=negative pulse - 1=positive pulse. This way all four coils are always on. The top and bottom ring are reverse of each other so this same sequence would creat CW in one and CCW in the other.

I don't expect to get nice straight funnels or the lens effect with this. It is only a functional experiment.

Quote from: EMdevices on October 07, 2007, 10:22:11 PM

@BEP, I'll be right behind you in those experiments.  Good thinking in the design.   Using multiple thin Iron wires in a bundle will keep down the eddy current losses and the HEAT.  The low 1 Hz resonance is amazing. I was getting 120 Hz, but I deduced it was comming from the grid through my transformer (overloaded)  :)   I need to start using batteries.

The 1HZ wasn't resonance I forced it down that far. The coil resonance was abot 2.5k. The magnetostrictive resonance is probably under 45Hz.
The bundle idea was from McFarland Cook  :)

A slight sample of what a magnetostrictively operated TPU might do in water, and why it must be allowed to vibrate 'freely' (as EMDevices put it...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6821818183625131337&q=magnetostrictive&total=4&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

:o

QuoteI remember when it was mentioned that when a running tpu was put in a bath of water it was a complete disaster because  in the air some give to the vibration is allowed and the water did not allow it.

What were the TPU preparations for the test ?
Fully sealed or like in the video ?

I have just saw a MIT lecture about coils levitation.
Due to eddy current...

Quote from: SMThe destructive heating caused by the eddy currents ,
become the problem we face when we make a really large powerful coil.

Look like scaling up could be a problem, but it is also present in the smaller TPUs.

So...
How eddy current created ?
how does the distance, relative to the surface of the material in witch it is induce, affect it ?
what would be the effect of putting water in between ?
Does eddy current have it own magnetic field ?

For some of those questions i have an answere, some i don't.

Quote from: Earl on October 07, 2007, 02:30:36 PM
If the Earth did not rotate, gravity alone would not cause any water vortexes.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
Indeed water does not require the rotation of the earth to rotate into a vortex. As long as gravity is present, the water will form into a vortex on its own, but the vortex direction will be determined by chaotic imperfections in the holding container, and hence will be random on a case by case basis.

In EE class many years ago, the professor was drawing circuits on the blackboard and some smart ass raised his hand and said "but the coil has resistance in it".  The professor without hesitation replied "not this coil, it has zero resistance because it is made out of chalk."

My bathtub is a perfect bathtub with no imperfections whatsoever.  With only aether flux flowing to the Earth (what you call gravity) and no Earth rotation, there is NO vortex formed.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
In fact, water can be "encouraged" to rotate in a direction opposite its natural tendency due to the earth's rotation, simply by stirring it up manually before "pulling the plug".

But what is the purpose of doing this?  If you rotate the TPU's magnetic or electric field in the wrong direction it won't work.  For this reason, the electronics must be able to rotate in either direction.  If you get it wrong, you will have no success, so it better be switchable.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
So for all intents and purposes, water will form into a vortex under the influence of a rotating earth or not...as long as "gravity" is present.

Negative, Earth rotation is necessary.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
Call "gravity" whatever you wish; its effect is what matters, .......

Just the opposite is true; it is the CAUSE of you being stuck to the Earth's surface that is important.
It makes a difference of night and day whether you are being attracted to Earth, or whether you are being pushed to the Earth.

If you think that when you jump in the air, you are attracted back to the Earth, then in my opinion you will never be able to understand the operation of the TPU.

Quote from: z_p_e on October 07, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
... and the fact that gravity has no significant effect on electromagnetics, can only mean the TPU does not operate on any principles involving gravity.

Many people suspect that "gravity" is electromagnetic.

Since there are numerous reports of spacecraft that manipulate "gravity" in order to levitate cause interference to radios, gasoline motors stopping because the high-voltage coil no longer funtions, etc., etc., I would not be so quick to jump to a conclusion that gravity does not effect EM.


Some here have the theory that the TPU operates on a magnetorestrictive principle.  The arguments brought forward are not trival and sound convincing.  It could very well be that brand x TPU could operate OU due to magnetostriction.  However, the SM TPU stops functioning when turned upside down.  If SM's TPU operation was based solely on magnetostriction, turning it upside down would have no effect.
My pet theory is still that the SM TPU harnesses the same aether that is pushing you to planet Earth.  Whether this aether vortex makes connection to the ionosphere for OU or not, I am still undecided.

Regards, Earl

@Earl

If you can wade through it, and wade is the right word, it might be worth you checking out the free ebooks on the Divine Cosmos website, there are nuggets in there regarding the energy flowing into the earth and the large pyramids the Russians experimented with outside of Moscow. Many of their findings regarding the really massive detectable energy effectsn it produced, such as a very large column of energy above the apex tend to support your ideas.

I too think that this is energy, which ultimately comes from the Sun, is the source of the TPU's power rather than the Schumman resonance directly.The pyramid shape when aligned correctly, has always been used historically to harness this energy because it is the simplest way of doing it. Now with electronics it appears SM has created a rotating magnetic vortex which sucks this energy in, which is equivalent to one formed inside of a pyramid due to its geometric resonant properites. However SM has the upper hand as he controls the vortex directly with his electronics, where as the pyramids static geometric nature prevents this, so he is able to obtain much more energy from it.

Some of the DVD's on crystals show the link between a pyramids energetic vortex, which is essentially the same in nature as that of the ones formed inside crystals and the Suns energy.

Indeed the several OU pyramid energy generation devices that have periodically appeared on google, the last of which brought from the designer support your idea, they are however generally low powered as they only collect the energy from the pyramids natural geometric vortex, rather than creating an high power artificial one.

There may be several effects in SM's TPU that contribute the OU power, magnetorestrictive contraction and release causing BEMF to be produced as well as a rotating magnetic field causing a vortex that sucks in the Suns energy stream to the Earth. This might be why SM could not be sure it was the Schumman Energy...

Acerzw

P.S   As it is simple and so am I, I actualy built one of these! Yes, it keeps a glass of water fresh almost indefinetly and sharpens razors too, thinking about test its power generation capabilites at a later stage. Coil inside a pyramid anyone, sounds right about down Otto's street...

Earl,

In terms of the effects I see on my bench, the argument of whether gravity is an attraction from within the earth, or a repulsion towards the earth is of no consequence.

What I see is no effect on magnetics or electric potentials, and you still have not addressed that question.

It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.

Quote from: -[marco]- on October 07, 2007, 02:01:50 PM
hi  :)
as my memory serves me right there was also something about drawing a lens when velocity becomes extreme.
some people claim gravity itself is a electric/magnetic force.
i do not know what it is, but i do think it is convertible into another form or forms of energy.

is there anybody getting positive results or am i the only one seeing intresting things?

M.

Hi Marco.

What kind of things are you seeing and what is your setup?

The method how TPU converts energy from external magnetic field is done by taking a precession energy from electron, when electron is wobbling under phonon pulse. Sharp phonon pulse comes from magnetostrictive material, when control coils makes an magnetic field around composite core material, that includes both ferromagnetic and magnetostrictive particles.
This created sharp phonon pulse we can call also as a "kick", when it pushes electron precession to wobble. When electron`s precession axis direction is changed from the direction of the external magnetic field lines, electron releases a part of it`s energy in a form of photon. Photon is now a energy carrier and is able to give it`s energy to free electron, that exsist`s on collector wire. To start the tpu, there needs to be free electrons available on collector coil for photons energy, this can be done by applying a bias current to collector coil.
This technology is used also with electron tubes, when photon`s energy is transferred inside the electron tube.
Idea with a TPU is that we need only a realtively small amount of enegy in a control coil to wobble electron precession and have a energy emission in a form of photon. External magnetic field during pulses moves electron precession axis back to be in parallel direction with a magnetic field and gives it`s energy again to electron.
Also SEG works with this principle, when deformation in a  crystallic metal releases phonon pulses as rollers are moving around the stator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect

Esa

Quote from: z_p_e on October 08, 2007, 09:26:56 AM
It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.

I hate to start something but what really boggles my mind are statements like that. Yes. I've made them too. But now that I think about it if all the clues are there then someone, out of the billions that live here, would have a working device - not just claimed but one that is verifiable.

Same goes for the BB devices and I'm sure many others.

I don't know for sure what makes these things tick or the world around me. All I do know is what is written is always missing something or based on failed observations or personal philosophical flavor.
What is gravity? What is skin effect? Who cares? It would be great to know and minimize this work if understood correctly. Right now I know the final result is the same regardless of the cause - for both.
I seriously doubt gravity is the major player for the reason the TPU 'supposedly' won't work upside down. My EMP won't work upside down, unless you want to break the thing it is sitting on. I can?t even image what it would do in a tub of water.

@Esa Maunu

Have you seen any of your statement proven or repeated parts on a work bench? (Now I sound like you guys when I came bursting on!)
All of what you say is old information here. The question is - Can you put it in practice and document all of it so others can benefit?

Also - I have a fair amount of experience with SEGs. I haven't found a one that worked or been able to reproduce a working model from the information available.
What I have found is that some of the theory pans out but most of it is a flight into theology.

QuoteThe method how TPU converts energy from external magnetic field is done by taking a precession energy from electron, when electron is wobbling under phonon pulse. Sharp phonon pulse comes from magnetostrictive material, when control coils makes an magnetic field around composite core material, that includes both ferromagnetic and magnetostrictive particles.....

Esa Manu


I like what you worte Esa.Ã,  Magnetostriction invovles aligning the domains and when they align they also lengthen the material.Ã,  So energy has to come from the atoms themselves, I totaly agree.Ã,  And since atoms are electrodynamic entities, spinning charge, etc.., the play of energy through precessions, etc.. can be quite complex and I'm no quatum physicist, but on the surface I can tell it has to come from the atom.Ã,   Also Nuclear Magnetic Resoance, which uses precession of the atoms, can also be at work here.Ã,  And since Gravity afects atoms, Gravity can play a part. So ultimately energy can come from the cosmos for all I'm concerned.Ã, 

Ã,  

But from a more practical viewpoint, I'm convinced of the following right now:

1) Magnetostriction is the actuating principle causing VIBRATION from pulsating coils.

2) This VIBRATION is put to good use and by INDUCTION induces current in the output coil.Ã,  (like a guitar pickup coil, and SPEED is key, like SM talked about, the faster the vibration the higher the induced voltage)

3) FEEDBACK is used to drive the INPUT COILS from the OUTPUT COILS.Ã,  (this is the part that will be tricky, since we need the correct phase, much like in designing an oscillator) and voltage and VIBRATIONAL LEVELS will build REALY REALY HIGH


@tao

nice video link.Ã,  wow.Ã,  talk about rapid cleaning.Ã,   I use to work for a company that cleaned parts in an ultrasonic bath, very cool to watch.

EM

Quote from: BEP on October 08, 2007, 10:51:18 AM

Quote from: z_p_e on October 08, 2007, 09:26:56 AM
It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.

@Esa Maunu

Have you seen any of your statement proven or repeated parts on a work bench? (Now I sound like you guys when I came bursting on!)
All of what you say is old information here. The question is - Can you put it in practice and document all of it so others can benefit?

Also - I have a fair amount of experience with SEGs. I haven't found a one that worked or been able to reproduce a working model from the information available.
What I have found is that some of the theory pans out but most of it is a flight into theology.

Like i told you before, i am also working with magnetostrictive devices in a practice.

Yes, this is not a new information. I am trying to talk about this techonlogy before also here, but it is good that there is now more interest about this subject. I hope that the information is useful for somebody, who is trying to  build tpu.

Esa

@Esa

Thanks. I appreciate the detail you supplied and the references. I have always believed this is a root mode. I have not been able to confirm some of it to myself.
Please continue supplying relavant details.

@EM

I have found that longitudinal wave devices exhibit multiple resonance points. Please keep this in mind when going for feedback. These points are not always expected or have an apparent correlation with each other.

@All

We must bear in mind that SM states he does not understand how the TPU works, just suspects that it is related to Schuman etc. presumably because of the orientation problem and because he states the fields rotate in the opposite direction when used in the other hermisphere.

Could it not be that the OU energy comes from the Suns energy entering the earths atmosphere, where it is then modulated by it?

I suspect the TPU gets its excess energy input due to more than one effect. If it was as simple as one source, it would have been figured out by SM originally, and by all here within a short time. I think the simplicity of the coil creates the expectation in people that it is a single effect that creates the excess energy. But the complexity of the field interactions and there results are probably outside the ability of but a few people on the planet to explain, this is exactly the problem Tom Bearden relates, you need someone who is specialised in some many technical fields...

Acerzw

..
From what SM says, compass gradually spins faster and then eventually stops, it is possible that this could be because the rotation field creates a deadzone at the center of the ring, not because the spin is too fast for the compass to follow. kind of like a hurricane.

also while we are talking about vortexes, it seems many of us are assuming the flow is "down" towards the singularity of a vortex. BUT what if this is not the case? Hurricanes actually utilize energy flow upward. either the cone is upright with energy flowing up to the ring from the cone's singularity; or the cone forms upside down with the singularity being at the top, and the energy flowing with the aether down towards the rings.

another way of thinking about it in 3 dimensions is the opposite of a black hole (a white hole), energy flowing out of a singularity.

here is more of what i am thinking; this whole tuning and resonance business might actually have the goal of either moving the cone up or down and thus aligning the cones flow to match with the rings, allowing for the ring to draw energy from this alignment.

thought i might just throw what i am thinking out there. most of you should be able to see what i am trying to say here. (let me know if you guys want me to put a drawing up here)

devilzangel
..

Quote from: z_p_e on October 08, 2007, 09:34:32 AM

Quote from: -[marco]- on October 07, 2007, 02:01:50 PM
hi  :)
as my memory serves me right there was also something about drawing a lens when velocity becomes extreme.
some people claim gravity itself is a electric/magnetic force.
i do not know what it is, but i do think it is convertible into another form or forms of energy.

is there anybody getting positive results or am i the only one seeing intresting things?

M.

Hi Marco.

What kind of things are you seeing and what is your setup?

i have a setup like a jet turbine.
when i put energy into the system, it starts to rotate, it also speeds up depending on the amount of energy i put in.
when i flip over the device and apply the same amount of energy ,it does nothing.
when i reverse the polarity of the energy i apply, it works in reverse.
the potential is concentrated exactly around the circumference so this would be the best place for the collector since i did not put one in yet.
i will try to do so comming weekend.

if my findings are correct the right rotation is counter clockwise horizontal and up vertical.
however im not totally sure because i do not see how these will slap each other...
the images i am seeing are becomming quite clear lately.
but i have this lonely feeling about how much people are actually trying to solve this puzzle by experimenting in stead of theorizing.
if i do find the awnser, i do not know how to proceed...
it's like it is laying in front of me, i only need to put it together, and this i can do anytime i want to.

M.

Ok Guys,Ã,  here's some MATH for youÃ,  :)

Notice I calculate the Voltage and Current induced in a vibrating wire per unit length (1 meter) Ã, 

I assume a vibration displacement of 1 mm in either direction (or amplitude of 1mm)Ã, 

This is only half the fun, the other is to calculate the amount of vibration produced given a certain driving Voltage.


@ BEP
The problem with the different modes is solved when applying the FEEDBACK.Ã,   That's when we use a FREQUENCY SELECTIVE network to feedback the right frequency.

EM

P.S.  Marco,  good job, sounds interesting.  We'll help you buddy!!!  I know the feeling.

Quote from: tao on October 06, 2007, 07:00:39 PM

Quote from: tosky on October 06, 2007, 04:33:18 PM
TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Exactly what I was thinking before. If for instance we HAD to live with the HEAT 'problem', we could easily use this technique as a sure fire method to avoid the HEAT issue, disregarding what you could use that HEAT energy for....

So, say a TPU could run for 1 hour and then it would get too hot, then you had to let it cool for 30 minutes for it to return to normal temp, you could just use two TPUs, run one for 1 hour, then switch to the other TPU which will run for another hour, and once that second TPU is ready to 'cool off', the first TPU would have already been cool for 30 minutes, so it would be very easy to switch back again. If it was the case that the cooling time was longer than the running time, you could just use 3 TPUs, which would easily solve that timing problem.

In regard to using the HEAT, that are A LOT of ways to USE the HEAT energy that is coming off a TPU, thereby cooling it enough to run forever.

Either way it's done, the HEAT 'issue' isn't really one...

It was an issue for SM because he was only considering the TPU in and of itself, without heat transmuting additions or multiples TPUs, he was only considering any single TPU device, in and of itself, so FOR SM, and his mindset of looking at the TPU like so, the heat 'issue' is an issue...

@tao

This is probably one of the most insane ideas that I have ever come across on this site! The main appeal of the TPU is its small portable size and simplicity, the above is a practical solution to the problem of heat but totally negates the point of the TPU, imagine carrying four TPU's around!

You might as well use a mechanical OU device instead which would be much safer than a TPU which can catastrophically fail without any notice due to external influences. Remember the exploding TV, a TPU even with a decent control circuit can fail unpredictably in such a manner without any warning!

Or you could include a cooling FAN and run CONTINUOUSÃ,  on one TPUÃ,    :)

The heat can also be minimized by minimizing the eddy losses, by lamination, but if design parameters don't permit, cooling is the alternative.

What if eddy current is not a lost but is a needed part in the process ?

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 02:13:02 PM

Quote from: tao on October 06, 2007, 07:00:39 PM

Quote from: tosky on October 06, 2007, 04:33:18 PM
TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Exactly what I was thinking before. If for instance we HAD to live with the HEAT 'problem', we could easily use this technique as a sure fire method to avoid the HEAT issue, disregarding what you could use that HEAT energy for....

So, say a TPU could run for 1 hour and then it would get too hot, then you had to let it cool for 30 minutes for it to return to normal temp, you could just use two TPUs, run one for 1 hour, then switch to the other TPU which will run for another hour, and once that second TPU is ready to 'cool off', the first TPU would have already been cool for 30 minutes, so it would be very easy to switch back again. If it was the case that the cooling time was longer than the running time, you could just use 3 TPUs, which would easily solve that timing problem.

In regard to using the HEAT, that are A LOT of ways to USE the HEAT energy that is coming off a TPU, thereby cooling it enough to run forever.

Either way it's done, the HEAT 'issue' isn't really one...

It was an issue for SM because he was only considering the TPU in and of itself, without heat transmuting additions or multiples TPUs, he was only considering any single TPU device, in and of itself, so FOR SM, and his mindset of looking at the TPU like so, the heat 'issue' is an issue...

@tao

This is probably one of the most insane ideas that I have ever come across on this site! The main appeal of the TPU is its small portable size and simplicity, the above is a practical solution to the problem of heat but totally negates the point of the TPU, imagine carrying four TPU's around!

You might as well use a mechanical OU device instead which would be much safer than a TPU which can catastrophically fail without any notice due to external influences. Remember the exploding TV, a TPU even with a decent control circuit can fail unpredictably in such a manner without any warning!

The most insane ideas, ey? Who said anything about carrying it around? I didn't...

Mine was a SIMPLE example as to how you could solve the HEATING problem of the TPUs in the MOST OBVIOUS WAY, nothing more nothing less.

And, since his 6" TPU weighed only 1 pound, having 2 or 3 TPUs would only make that at around 2 to 3 pounds.

SM said that the HEAT issue was a real problem, so, if he resorted to water cooling, you can damn well bet he tried air cooling with a fan and such. SM insinuated that the HEAT issue was a sort of byproduct of the conversion process, and that eddy currents were in effect also related to the conversion process. Since this is the case, the HEATing problem is almost INTERNAL to the actual conversion elements, and hence hard to COOL. So, my SIMPLE and OBVIOUS example of using 2 or more TPUs, WOULD 100% solve the TPU heating problem a la SM's own words and admissions about how he dealt with the heating problems and how and why they occur.

So, to call my idea insane, is in itself insane, because my SOLUTION is OBVIOUS, and is 100% workable as a SOLUTION...

Quote from: BEP on October 08, 2007, 10:51:18 AM

Quote from: z_p_e on October 08, 2007, 09:26:56 AM
It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.

I hate to start something but what really boggles my mind are statements like that. Yes. I've made them too. But now that I think about it if all the clues are there then someone, out of the billions that live here, would have a working device - not just claimed but one that is verifiable.

Same goes for the BB devices and I'm sure many others.

If billions were working on the TPU problem, perhaps it would have been solved by now. Obviously only a handful of folks are seriously working on it though.

Perhaps I need to clarify my statement:

The clues provided by SM do not on their own, give us a complete picture of what makes the TPU tick. It was never his intention to do so. However, the key main points have been given, and one must take them into consideration in filling in the gaps using the insights obtained by many hours of research, thinking, re-reading the SM material, and experimentation. Enough information has already been provided to do just that. SM said so, and even BB said so, regarding the TPU info that is available.

It was not my intention to imply SM has handed us all the secrets to the TPU technology on a silver platter. I'm pretty sure he wanted us to do our homework and open our eyes. IMHO most have failed in this regard.

@EM & TAO

Clearly the penny has not dropped regarding the heat issue, it cannot be viewed in isolation from the coil degradation issue...

A fan will not help as SM stated, the heat can be radiated away, but the heat is caused by mechanical stresses in the coil, presumably due to its expansion and retraction because of magnetorestriction, which degrade its material over time.

A single TPU cannot run for a prolonged period of time because of the degradation of the coil material, of which the heat is a by-product. Removing the heat with any form of cooling device will not make a TPU reliable, the heat does not cause the damage, the heat is a result of the damage being caused.

Making the coil from another material may reduce the damage to the coil, but is also likely to reduce the efficiency of the coil, producing less power, which is just as undesirable as the heat and damage which it eliminates.

Tao's example of switching between four TPU's will remove the problem of a single TPU shutting down due to excess heat, however it will not prevent the degradation of the coil material which is cumulative. Resting a coil while another does the work instead will prolong its life, but only because it is being used less over a given period of time, not because resting it allows it to repair or regenerate, it simple cannot do that. The total MTBF for a TPU coil will always be the same, resting has no net effect.

This demonstrates the first fundamental flaw in the TPU's design, because of the mechanical effect that it utilises, it has an unavoidable mechanical mode of failure, despite being 'solid state'. It just flexes rather than rotates, in effect it is a linear motor and will eventually fail like one.

The second fundamental design flaw is that the TPU cannot be reliably 'caged', there is always a chance of the exploding TV effect occurring no matter how good the control circuit is. Like all OU devices it is not a closed thermodynamic system, it is energetically coupled to the source of the OU energy, which many assume to be the Earth's magnetic field. The source of energy which it is coupled to is however largely irrelevant, but we do know that whatever it is, it is very powerful, as evidenced by the TPU's output. The point is that the source is not 'controlled' by the control circuit, no one knows what controls it or how stable it is. A sufficiently large surge in the coupled energy source will feedback into the device. No control circuit can prevent this. I would suspect that a lightning strike in the local area would smoke all the TPU's around.

In essence the TPU control circuit stops the TPU calling down too much power from the source, but there is nothing to prevent the source sending down too much power to the TPU! The TPU is a loosly coupled device.... no cure for that...

It is clear that when this 'replication' project is successful what comes out of it, in order to meet everyones aspiration for a portable and reliable source of energy, will be a TPU in name only. A 'pure' SM style TPU cannot achieve the desired goal of reliability which this group needs because it's fundamental operating principles prevent is from being reliable.

What comes out of this group will not be covered by any TPU patents if they exist, because in essence it cannot and will not be a TPU!  8)

@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:

http://www.altenergy-pro.com/device09-2.htm

DOH! And the device above could easily be made portable, and scaled, the motor could easily be replaced by switchable magnets. Since it does not operate using magnetorestriction it will also not suffer from the coil degradation and reliability issues which the TPU does. Odds are that because it is simpler it may not explode so easily too!

Acerzw

Quote from: -[marco]- on October 08, 2007, 12:58:16 PM

i have a setup like a jet turbine.
when i put energy into the system, it starts to rotate, it also speeds up depending on the amount of energy i put in.
when i flip over the device and apply the same amount of energy ,it does nothing.
when i reverse the polarity of the energy i apply, it works in reverse.
the potential is concentrated exactly around the circumference so this would be the best place for the collector since i did not put one in yet.
i will try to do so comming weekend.

if my findings are correct the right rotation is counter clockwise horizontal and up vertical.
however im not totally sure because i do not see how these will slap each other...
the images i am seeing are becomming quite clear lately.
but i have this lonely feeling about how much people are actually trying to solve this puzzle by experimenting in stead of theorizing.
if i do find the awnser, i do not know how to proceed...
it's like it is laying in front of me, i only need to put it together, and this i can do anytime i want to.

M.

I don't think that a "slap" is required in a rotational mode.

I'm realy stuck on this simpler LINEAR concept derived from the TPU, can't you tell?   LOL  :)

If this doesn't work, then we know it has to be the CIRCULAR nature of the TPU, that makes it work.


Here's a simpler setup then my previous one.Ã, Ã,  Just a rod with magnets attached at the end.Ã,  The magnets also BIAS the Iron.Ã,  :)

How much simpler can one get?

EM

@EM

Yes, your concept is good, but I think magnetorestricition is only one of several effects that combine to produce the energy, their is nothing to stop the magnetorestriction occuring in a circular coil, but the circle is essential because it creates the vortex which then draws down the power...

Does the magnetorestictive flexing of the coil material affect its capacitance, and when the material relaxes does its contraction create BEMF?

Acerzw

Quote from: EMdevices on October 08, 2007, 04:06:58 PM
I'm realy stuck on this simpler LINEAR concept derived from the TPU, can't you tell?   LOL  :)

If this doesn't work, then we know it has to be the CIRCULAR nature of the TPU, that makes it work.


Here's a simpler setup then my previous one.   Just a rod with magnets attached at the end.  The magnets also BIAS the Iron.  :)

How much simpler can one get?

EM

It's a beauty EMDevices!

Unless it has to be circular for some reason, I too think the linear version should be just fine for testing ;)...

So, at the fundamental resonant standing wave frequency, there would be maximum displacement of the iron rod and the magnets, which should move the magnets at the ends of the iron rod VERY quickly back and forth, thereby inducing a good amount of power into the end coils.

Do you think the input energy requirement will drop as it approaches this fundamental frequency? It probably doesn't matter, because we should see ample output at the end coils nonetheless.

thanks tao,Ã,  I belive we should see a drop in input energy at any kind of resonance, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm counting on that powerfull expansion and contraction due to magnetostriciton.Ã,  Ã,  This phenomena is like an AMPLIFIER.Ã,   With little magnetic field we can align a bunch of domains, and hence produce a ton of force.Ã,  That's why the magnetic constant of these feromagnetic materials is so high (in the thousands).


The only thing that complicates things in this linear concept is the MUTUAL coupling between the input coil and output coils.Ã,  That's why I show the spacers between the magnet and iron rod.Ã,  Ã,  The larger the spacer the less we have to worry about this mutual coupling.Ã,  It might be good it might be bad, I don't know at this point.

With a CIRCULAR setup we don't need to worry about this, because all the flux is TRAPED by the toroid.
The vibrating ring in LONGITUDINAL MODE, basicaly expands and contract, changing it's radius.

Oh well, I'll experiment with the linear model first and then move on to circular, like the open TPU.

EM

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 03:47:31 PM
@EM & TAO

@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:

http://www.altenergy-pro.com/device09-2.htm

Acerzw

You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

Why both working on the TPU if it isn't portable? Are you serious? Who said it wasn't portable? And when did I say I didn't want a portable TPU??? Are you telling me that carrying 2 TPUs as opposed to 1 TPU makes it NOT PORTABLE? LOL, so going from 1 pounds to 2 pounds makes it not portable? Come on man... Plus, what would you consider the 17" TPU? That's portable? Your argument is baseless.

My last post explained to you why I wrote what I did about solving the heat problem, perhaps you should read it again, because it clearly ISN'T insane.

QuoteThe most insane ideas, ey? Who said anything about carrying it around? I didn't...

Mine was a SIMPLE example as to how you could solve the HEATING problem of the TPUs in the MOST OBVIOUS WAY, nothing more nothing less.

And, since his 6" TPU weighed only 1 pound, having 2 or 3 TPUs would only make that at around 2 to 3 pounds.

SM said that the HEAT issue was a real problem, so, if he resorted to water cooling, you can damn well bet he tried air cooling with a fan and such. SM insinuated that the HEAT issue was a sort of byproduct of the conversion process, and that eddy currents were in effect also related to the conversion process. Since this is the case, the HEATing problem is almost INTERNAL to the actual conversion elements, and hence hard to COOL. So, my SIMPLE and OBVIOUS example of using 2 or more TPUs, WOULD 100% solve the TPU heating problem a la SM's own words and admissions about how he dealt with the heating problems and how and why they occur.

So, to call my idea insane, is in itself insane, because my SOLUTION is OBVIOUS, and is 100% workable as a SOLUTION...

Just remember, YOU started all of this by attacking me, saying that I had the most insane idea ever, even though my IDEA which 100% solves the problem, was merely a POLITE SUGGESTION...

And one more thing, where did you get all your info on the TPUs having predetermined MTBFs? SM never said that the TPUs degrade, that isn't a 'KNOWN'.

Quote from: EMdevices on October 08, 2007, 04:33:33 PM
thanks tao,  I belive we should see a drop in input energy at any kind of resonance, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm counting on that powerfull expansion and contraction due to magnetostriciton.    This phenomena is like an AMPLIFIER.   With little magnetic field we can align a bunch of domains, and hence produce a ton of force.  That's why the magnetic constant of these feromagnetic materials is so high (in the thousands).


The only thing that complicates things in this linear concept is the MUTUAL coupling between the input coil and output coils.  That's why I show the spacers between the magnet and iron rod.    The larger the spacer the less we have to worry about this mutual coupling.  It might be good it might be bad, I don't know at this point.

With a CIRCULAR setup we don't need to worry about this, because all the flux is TRAPED by the toroid.
The vibrating ring in LONGITUDINAL MODE, basicaly expands and contract, changing it's radius.

Oh well, I'll experiment with the linear model first and then move on to circular, like the open TPU.

EM

I see the magnetostrictive expansion/contraction as the AMPLIFIER too, quite a powerful one indeed. So, in your linear setup there, it is THIS effect that brings in the OU into the device, IT is the key OU mechanism.

And like SM said, it is the SPEED that counts, even a small magnetic field can generate a large output, if the SPEED is quick enough, and this SPEED certainly seems to be present in the magnetostiction ;), as you well know, and certainly as BEP knows ;)...

WE supply the CONTROL, the IRON (or other magnetostictive element) does the rest, opening the flood gates to OU... But of course, we need some copper wire and/or some magnets to extract this OU, the point is that we have identified a very possible and key MECHANISM FOR OU (and that is huge!), and now we can test.

I consider that the first step in identifying and replicating any OU device, finding it's mechanism for OU (or potential mechanism). It's all about isolating, testing and improving these mechanisms, that is how an OU device will be made, and improved upon.

But of course, you knew all this, hence this post is a sort of open monologue, so those that might not see this, can...

It's so reassuring to see you understand what I'm trying to say, tao,   You spelled it out very nicely !!    I just can't wait to get home and start experimenting.

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 03:47:31 PM

A fan will not help as SM stated, the heat can be radiated away, but the heat is caused by mechanical stresses in the coil, presumably due to its expansion and retraction because of magnetorestriction, which degrade its material over time.

Magnetostriction does not occur in the coil, and this is not what causes the heating. Read SM's material.

Quote
A single TPU cannot run for a prolonged period of time because of the degradation of the coil material, of which the heat is a by-product. Removing the heat with any form of cooling device will not make a TPU reliable, the heat does not cause the damage, the heat is a result of the damage being caused.

The heat problem is caused by eddy currents. Read SM's material.

Quote
This demonstrates the first fundamental flaw in the TPU's design, because of the mechanical effect that it utilises, it has an unavoidable mechanical mode of failure, despite being 'solid state'. It just flexes rather than rotates, in effect it is a linear motor and will eventually fail like one.

The mechanical effect may only be a by-product of the conversion process. There is no iron in the TPU aside from the ferrite cores, so magnetostriction is unlikely the cause.

Quote
What comes out of this group will not be covered by any TPU patents if they exist, because in essence it cannot and will not be a TPU!  8)

What is a TPU? What would preclude a successful working device here from being the true TPU?

Quote
@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:

You're basing this statement on the assumption the TPU operates using magnetostricition, AND that the coils degrade due to mechanical stresses. If the TPU does not operate using MS, (and imo it does not) and there are no mechanical stresses on the coils (imo there are none), then tao's proposed solution is 100% plausible.

I encourage you to re-read SM's material. Clearly the essence of his messages are becoming clouded here, and the facts messed up.

Oh, and btw, as far as I know, SM never ever mentioned the word "Schumann" in either his material or videos. You inferred that he did.

hi EMDIVICES  AND TO ALL
  how are you my friend  ..   i have  great progres  whit  this theory////  i make  in this  in practical  is forking   .. if you read this  you know what im tell you  ...and now  i have tell you  to all  i made some  whit thiny wire  is like a magic things  <<< you imagen  what  whill done whit  many wire   >>and simple  push of litle  energy  just  is  need 5 or 6 second  to start  then  is hapend   the kick then this kick  is created  my god is fantastic thing  of increse  the power of out   
-0000000000000-00000000000000-000000000000000
  TO ALL  i whant to ask  something <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< what you mean  is posible  whit simple  1 kick  to make  5000 kick  in 1 single second  only whit  small batery  or perm. magnet   i have find  the ansver  and  i made some of that  ..you nnow what i m say  my friend  EM.  i hope to reply

ONE  HELP TO ALL  you every one is look the tpu  whit  2 bulb  when is start whit 2 perm magn.  ok
in one of the ring SM is put 4 coil and find the ansver   ;) ;) ;)

@Macedonia

It sounds like you have had some success, can you do a drawing for us? Difficult to understand what you mean..

Acerzw

Question. Why is an alternating current of 6000 hertz considered DC?

Quote from: tao on October 08, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

@tao, I beg to differ... .

I do have concrete designs for OU devices, so I suspect do you and many others on this forum!  Here I will site two examples..

John Bedini has published many schematics that have been replicated, a book and a set of DVD's! As I am sure you are aware one replication was built by a school girl! Since then an even simpler design the Simplified School Girl Motor has been provided by John. Tom Bearden and John Bedini have provided enough comments, detailed scientific explanations and tutorials to fill an entire library and continue to do so....

BEMF is probably the most well explained, simplest and easily verified principle on which an OU device can be based! Absolutely no secrets have been kept regarding its use... Rocket Science it is not...

As I recall SM proved that too, for did he not describe, lest we forget, the simplest OU device of all:

4.In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth?s magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it. Or rather the electrons on the surface of the wire.
5.The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth?s magnetic field to produce a small kick. (Morgan Jones book, valve amplifiers. 3rd edition, page 262)
6.It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires
7. They say that you cannot get more out of something than you put into it. Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on... There in lies the secret my friend.

Even I can build that one  8)

Some of Don Smith's devices clearly work on similar principles to John Bedini's, notice the similar arrangements of magnets and coils, thought Don seems to have simplified the principle even further than John in some cases... He has multiple systems many of which appear to use ideas very similar to those posted on this very forum... reverse engineering them from the clear photos on his website has got to be simpler than attempting to replicate the TPU from SM's cryptic comments and grainy videos!

Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...

Acerzw

Quote from: wattsup on October 08, 2007, 07:25:37 PM
Question. Why is an alternating current of 6000 hertz considered DC?

wattsup, I believe SMs TPU uses a diode bridge to rectify the alternating current and get DC, and inevitably we will have the ripple present (6000 Hz) as well.

On the other hand, if the phenomena truly produces DC current, then it's another story.   For example the magnetostrictive induced audio pulse can go round and round and resemble a magnet spinning round and round, inducing and draging charge with it in every LOOP OF WIRE.   This can certainly be happening as well.

Good question though, I asked the same of Mannix a while ago but I don't think we got an answer from SM.
   
EM

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 08:00:05 PM

Quote from: tao on October 08, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

@tao, I beg to differ... .

I do have concrete designs for OU devices, so I suspect do you and many others on this forum!  Here I will site two examples..

John Bedini has published many schematics that have been replicated, a book and a set of DVD's! As I am sure you are aware one replication was built by a school girl! Since then an even simpler design the Simplified School Girl Motor has been provided by John. Tom Bearden and John Bedini have provided enough comments, detailed scientific explanations and tutorials to fill an entire library and continue to do so....

BEMF is probably the most well explained, simplest and easily verified principle on which an OU device can be based! Absolutely no secrets have been kept regarding its use... Rocket Science it is not...

As I recall SM proved that too, for did he not describe, lest we forget, the simplest OU device of all:

4.In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth?s magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it. Or rather the electrons on the surface of the wire.
5.The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth?s magnetic field to produce a small kick. (Morgan Jones book, valve amplifiers. 3rd edition, page 262)
6.It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires
7. They say that you cannot get more out of something than you put into it. Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on... There in lies the secret my friend.

Even I can build that one  8)

Some of Don Smith's devices clearly work on similar principles to John Bedini's, notice the similar arrangements of magnets and coils, thought Don seems to have simplified the principle even further than John in some cases... He has multiple systems many of which appear to use ideas very similar to those posted on this very forum... reverse engineering them from the clear photos on his website has got to be simpler than attempting to replicate the TPU from SM's cryptic comments and grainy videos!

Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...

Acerzw

LOL...

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

I had Bearden's book when it came out, and I know all about what SM said, I WAS THE ONE WHO HE ORIGINALLY SAID HAD THE KEY SECRET FOR A WORKING TPU... So, don't try to tell me anything.

You see, you mean well enough, but again, your comeback is baseless.

You are saying that BEMF is not rocket science and that is it easy and open domain, and that Smith's coils should be easily interpreted, against the knowledge of Bedini's devices, etc... Yet, all of that is conjecture, for in the end, you have no evidence for any working device.

I am NOT attacking you, I am merely trying to show you that you need to do some more research. And yet, even though I am ONLY trying to SHOW you your mistakes, you keep round-about attacking me, "Even I can build that one".

Now, although you may fully adhere to "Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...", please note what I wrote above, about John's inner circle...

I am NOT SAYING that Bedini's work isn't OU-possible, and I totally see HOW it can work, BUT, the FACT IS NO ONE OTHER THAN BEDINI HAS DONE WHAT BEDINI HAS DONE YET...

You know how Bedini insinuated that he rebuilt Gray's tube (look it up on google) and he was using it and such? Well, he point blank told me that he never did get around to powering the TUBE like Gray did, nor did he see any cold current...

Just more evidence that MANY of the people in the OU community like to talk about OU devices that they are sure will work, but never actually make it to that stage, for whatever reason.

There are a lot of people who made it to OU land, be sure of that, but it isn't as easy as you are making it, PERIOD! You are making it sound like I'm a fool or something and that there is OU devices all around me if I would only look, and the plans for these devices are all WORKABLE and fairly simple to build, COME ON MAN, your delusional. Why do you think everyone is here?

Not ONE workable *PUBLIC* and *OBVIOUS* OU device yet, because if there were you can damn be sure that EVERYONE HERE WOULD BE DUPLICATING IT RIGHT NOW...............

@tao

I see what you are saying, but when you make and use statements such as this:

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

which you must be aware cannot be verified or substantiated by anyone who does not have your inside knowledge or contacts, regardless of the amount of research they undertake, then you must accept that many, me included, are simply not going to believe you!

Can you prove any of the above? How come those who know this in his inner circle have not said anything? Are they covering up for him simply because he is a nice guy and he grants them audience? I hope you can understand my healthy skepticism in regard to that comment...

What would John have to say regarding that comment, since you have knowledge which you say is privy only to his inner circle, can you contact one of them, or perhaps him, and ask him for us?

Acerzw

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 10:04:02 PM
@tao

I see what you are saying, but when you make and use statements such as this:

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

which you must be aware cannot be verified or substantiated by anyone who does not have your inside knowledge or contacts, regardless of the amount of research they undertake, then you must accept that many, me included, are simply not going to believe you!

Can you prove any of the above? How come those who know this in his inner circle have not said anything? Are they covering up for him simply because he is a nice guy and he grants them audience? I hope you can understand my healthy skepticism in regard to that comment...

What would John have to say regarding that comment, since you have knowledge which you say is privy only to his inner circle, can you contact one of them, or perhaps him, and ask him for us?

Acerzw

No, I can't prove it, out of a respect for my 'word' to someone. That is why I ended the statement with " but it is the truth, believe it or not...". I don't expect ANYONE to believe my statement, without proof.

Why make the statement then? It was a adjunct to the rest of my comment, an additional 'truth' that you can choose to believe or not. It wasn't the basis for my last post, only an 'addition' that I thought some people, including you, might like to know, or at least 'tuck away' as a possible truth, and if the day comes that you hear something similar from someone else, maybe it can become a 'truth' to you also.

I completely understand your skepticism, and I would have the same skepticism as you. In regard to your question, about his inner circle covering up for Bedini, his 'inner circle' for lack of a better word, has spent a lot of money and spent a lot of time duplicating Bedini's setups, and they have results, just not 100% loopable (in the sense of taking the charged batteries and swapping with the running battery or powering an inverter off the charged batteries to restore the running battery) and repeatable results...

Once again, all I was trying to do was show you that I do know about all the devices you talk, yet, not even the devices you are talking about at 100% verified yet, and easily repeatable.

Hence, no CLEAR CUT OU plans are anywhere as of yet...

That is why we are here, you know that, we need to change that, WE need to duplicate, develop, rediscover, and engineer an OU device and distribute freely, PRECISE and CLEAR CUT plans for that device. I hope we are in agreement on that...

@Z_P_E

As I had no time for sketching today I'll eat the connect time and send a snapshot of the coils I mentioned wayyyyyy back on this thread. I added a bit of pic to show I'm not always a PC Hero. I do have some investment in this game. The high amp stuff is in the garage  :D

Hi there BEP,

I see that you have the whole cold, basement, missile silo motif down pat!   ;D

I could not help but notice what appears to be a fire extinguisher on the bench!  (GK might want to think about that for his bench also!  LOL)  Tired of the bucket of oil, eh? ;)

Kidding you of course, my friend!  Coils look awesome, and is that a large aluminum cutout I see parked under the bench?  Kinda has a familiar look to it.  I look forward to your continued experiments, my wave watching friend.

Cheers, :)
Bruce

Hi BEP.

Thanks for eating the connection time. Hope it was tasty  ;D

Those green control coils, they are the ones you were describing?

Interesting, they look somewhat similar to a stator coil that someone was winding and using on their Bedini Window Motor a while back.

Has this achieved the unipolar pulsing you were seeking?

I am curious, why you are using the kickback pulse rather than the initial one? The only difference being of course is if you desire an inverted low-current high-voltage shorter version of your input pulse, AND you leave the coil largely unloaded after charge-up, you will indeed get these results.

Yes. These are the ones I was describing. I've been experimenting with both sides of the pulse. For speed I use the inverted and unloaded version.

It is just a spiral coil then shaped to my needs. As it is shown - using the red coil as reference:

Hit it with a + and the center of the red coil sees + while the perimeter (red coil) sees - clamping down upon it. Along the diameter the red coil sees -

Reverse the polarity and reverse all the above. basically the polarity of the green coil is shifting 90 degrees instead of 180 but also doing it at 4 quadrants instead of two ends. Kinda like a 4 point sprocket.
It gets better when you twist the middle by 180 and then shape it as shown.
(Still can't get the taste of the connection time outta my mouth - we are on Verizon here. It is 2 cents a minute to talk to your neighbor. The POP I'm connecting to is not my neighbor)

Quote from: btentzer on October 08, 2007, 11:50:46 PM
Hi there BEP,

I see that you have the whole cold, basement, missile silo motif down pat!   ;D

I could not help but notice what appears to be a fire extinguisher on the bench!  (GK might want to think about that for his bench also!  LOL)  Tired of the bucket of oil, eh? ;)

Kidding you of course, my friend!  Coils look awesome, and is that a large aluminum cutout I see parked under the bench?  Kinda has a familiar look to it.  I look forward to your continued experiments, my wave watching friend.

Cheers, :)
Bruce

Missile siloh? No the rent is too high on those.
Fire extinguisher? I think you're referrring to my wiggy (wigger to some). The bucket of oil is below the bench.
That copper cutout in the back is the top shield for my EMP (look familiar? That was cut about 5 years ago). Fewer headaches when it is bolten on  ;D

Quote from: tao on October 08, 2007, 10:41:09 PM

Quote from: acerzw on October 08, 2007, 10:04:02 PM
@tao

I see what you are saying, but when you make and use statements such as this:

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

which you must be aware cannot be verified or substantiated by anyone who does not have your inside knowledge or contacts, regardless of the amount of research they undertake, then you must accept that many, me included, are simply not going to believe you!

Can you prove any of the above? How come those who know this in his inner circle have not said anything? Are they covering up for him simply because he is a nice guy and he grants them audience? I hope you can understand my healthy skepticism in regard to that comment...

What would John have to say regarding that comment, since you have knowledge which you say is privy only to his inner circle, can you contact one of them, or perhaps him, and ask him for us?

Acerzw

No, I can't prove it, out of a respect for my 'word' to someone. That is why I ended the statement with " but it is the truth, believe it or not...". I don't expect ANYONE to believe my statement, without proof.

Why make the statement then? It was a adjunct to the rest of my comment, an additional 'truth' that you can choose to believe or not. It wasn't the basis for my last post, only an 'addition' that I thought some people, including you, might like to know, or at least 'tuck away' as a possible truth, and if the day comes that you hear something similar from someone else, maybe it can become a 'truth' to you also.

I completely understand your skepticism, and I would have the same skepticism as you. In regard to your question, about his inner circle covering up for Bedini, his 'inner circle' for lack of a better word, has spent a lot of money and spent a lot of time duplicating Bedini's setups, and they have results, just not 100% loopable (in the sense of taking the charged batteries and swapping with the running battery or powering an inverter off the charged batteries to restore the running battery) and repeatable results...

Once again, all I was trying to do was show you that I do know about all the devices you talk, yet, not even the devices you are talking about at 100% verified yet, and easily repeatable.

Hence, no CLEAR CUT OU plans are anywhere as of yet...

That is why we are here, you know that, we need to change that, WE need to duplicate, develop, rediscover, and engineer an OU device and distribute freely, PRECISE and CLEAR CUT plans for that device. I hope we are in agreement on that...

@tao, yes that we can always agree on...  :)

Frankly I have found this discourse probably the most interesting I have had to date with anyone on this forum...

I do play devils advocate a lot, and assume a lot, but I do tend to find if you shake the tree fruit falls out...

I have been somewhat shocked regarding your statements about John Bedini and by proxy therefore Tom Bearden. Are you stating that no-one has achieved OU using the simple BEMF principles in his book? What are the problems they have encountered? Surely once you have a simple test rig consisting of a single coil and a magnet the BEMF principle can be proven easily? Then it must just be a matter of scaling it up... the running of the device from its own output energy also appears relatively trivial once the you know how to produce BEMF. What am I missing....

Acerzw...

Quote from: EMdevices on October 08, 2007, 04:06:58 PM
I'm realy stuck on this simpler LINEAR concept derived from the TPU, can't you tell?   LOL  :)

If this doesn't work, then we know it has to be the CIRCULAR nature of the TPU, that makes it work.


Here's a simpler setup then my previous one.   Just a rod with magnets attached at the end.  The magnets also BIAS the Iron.  :)

How much simpler can one get?

EM

If you use a helical coil around the magnetostrictive rod, it does not create linear lenght changes for this rod.
Helical coil creates a twisting  effect and torgue for magnetostrictive rod, this phenomena is also known as Wiedemann effect.
If you want to use magnetostrictive force this way, you should connect an other rod to   the ends of this magnetostritive rod, to be in 90 degree position. This way you can use a twisting moment from magnetostrictive rod, when this rod is turning .

Esa

Quote from: acerzw on October 09, 2007, 01:29:18 AM
@tao, yes that we can always agree on...  :)

Frankly I have found this discourse probably the most interesting I have had to date with anyone on this forum...

I do play devils advocate a lot, and assume a lot, but I do tend to find if you shake the tree fruit falls out...

I have been somewhat shocked regarding your statements about John Bedini and by proxy therefore Tom Bearden. Are you stating that no-one has achieved OU using the simple BEMF principles in his book? What are the problems they have encountered? Surely once you have a simple test rig consisting of a single coil and a magnet the BEMF principle can be proven easily? Then it must just be a matter of scaling it up... the running of the device from its own output energy also appears relatively trivial once the you know how to produce BEMF. What am I missing....

Acerzw...

I too play devils advocate a lot, its a nice way to get to the truth of any matter...

Right, it does seem trivial. This is exactly what I have thought of Bedini's work for sometime now. I have done a lot of research and I do feel that Bedini's BEMF method DOES introduce OU, but it can be highly elusive.

Matter of fact, Bedini's work seems to be highly elusive in general. I don't mean to be harsh and I am not trying to put him down or discredit him. The facts remain that he has tested many OU devices, from the Tesla Switch to the Kromrey Converter, his supposed Gray tube replication, to his work with enhanced BEMF and battery charging. In almost all of those tests, he talks of OU and how it is possible and how he has measured (or should I say SEEN it, as Bedini doesn't like to see a lot of meters on his stuff, hehe) it in these devices.

For someone completely new to OU, this seems great, all these potential and seemingly sure fire OU devices to pick and choose from, to replicate and use for your own energy needs. Yet, the more you dig deeper, the more you see that in many, if not all of the above cases, no concrete conclusions were ever reached by Bedini about their OU capabilities. No sure fire OU device seems to be forthcoming from all his tests.

For instance, his Tesla Switch seems so easy right? Until you see that even he had implementation problems with it, as have countless others. His Kromrey converter too, he measured OU with it, but upon further research into Bedini's further research into it, and a test replication I've seen that it isn't what it was cracked up to be, as in, it MIGHT be OU, IF you can get it just right. This right there seems to be the problem, the IF you can get it right part. Bedini talks about helping others all the time and there was a time he got completely fed up and stop answering emails and such because no one 'got it'. I guess one of the most annoying things you see is that he gives these circuits and shows these simple setups and then says, 'well this circuit isn't going to show you OU, just a process'. He even said that about the Bedini_SG, about their replications, that it wasn't meant for OU, but you KNOW that the only reason people were building the devices was FOR OU. The point is, he is saying that no one is making working devices because they aren't listening, but on the flip side he isn't telling anyone the TOTAL truth so that they can reach OU. Maybe he just wants people to EARN their OU devices through self discovery? Or keep his secret company IP secret until he finally hits the marketplace?

If you have seen his recent video series with Bearden, you see that he is still testing all his devices and methods even today, looking for that sure fire OU setup. I don't know about you, but if you had a sure fire OU setup, and you could EASILY replicate, wouldn't you make a couple first, to make sure they were 100% replicatable, then isolate the OU mechanism and work on enhancing it, all the while staring at your many OU replications in sheer enjoyment at what you have already accomplished, as you attempt to up the OU outputs ad infinitum?

I have no problem with Bedini having a company, wanting to patent his OU devices, or anything like that. More power to him, I hope he becomes a multimillionaire many times over. What I am after is OU, plain and simple, as are you all, this I am sure about...

If any of Bedini's complete works are viable, it is certainly the SG type BEMF setups he uses. These do exhibit OU in the form of mechanical and 'potential' extraction via making Lenz Law work for us, BUT, even with this OU mechanism, there are so many little nuances and issues with the devices and how they are setup, that they are extremely hard to duplicate. The OU is subtle, and the OU mechanism isn't clearly utilized. I can go into this in another thread or something...

Needless to say, I have seen the replications for the Tesla Switch, the Kromrey, the Bill Nelson Scalar battery charger, and even the SG, and it seems that none of them to date have without a doubt enabled consistent and repeatable OU production. A lot of time has gone into these, for the sole purpose of a simple OU output verfication, something, anything.

So, from the outside, Bedini's and Bearden's talks of 'easy OU' and the like, seem to be just that, 'talk'. (Don't get me wrong, I KNOW that they mean well, and want OU as much as us). Will that make me not buy Bearden's new material or stop following Bedini's works, hell no!

Because at any moment, some key element could be found, some key replication done, some key circuit given, that changes everything! So, I will continue to closely follow them and EVERYONE else in the OU world, and I will continue synthesizing ideas and devices, noting similarities and differences, and experimenting, until the day we all have OU...................

I have stated this before but it might be helpful to restate it here again.as this has been a good discussion
these things  are specific and as accurate as it is possible to have at this stage.

The heat generation means safety....the more heat the less danger of runaway.

Heat is a by product of operation not  load

The less heat the more dangerous they are. Again , counter intuitive for some, a vital clue for others.

Please stop arguing about this as it wont go any where towards getting there.

If you can ,try ignore those who seem interested in something other than building and contributing towards this understanding with a positive attitude.

Pessimism offers less than nothing to this discussion.


@ marco....exactly ...please try as hard as you are able.


Digital meters ...and even analogue are useless at measuring hf noisy signals on ac or dc.


Ac range is generally filtered and is designed to measure mains frequency  ...on most meters.

some or all of the tools we have are only designed to measure specific things that we use everyday..its far from science.
another reason to use the most rudimentary devices.

Back to basics!

Here is a test ..from apprentice schooling..get some kicks...or sharp pulse dc of 5k or so  on your scope ..de couple load it a little so that it has a rough known impedance.measure it with your  digital  multimeter... see which range works best.

One big benefit with the use of earth`s magnetic field in a tpu is it`s equal strenght on a small area like tpu is.
Because electron precession frequency is directly proportional to external magnetic field strenght, so this gives a very coherent photon emission, when electron precession wobbling is caused by a phonon field.  In fact, when we use composite material as a core material, mixed with magnetostrictive and ferromagnetic powder, we have thousands of small photon transducers that radiates evenly around the tpu, with the same wavelenght. This is not like a conventional dipole antenna, but like all antennas, this antenna is reciprocal also ( can both send and receive energy ).

Esa

@Mannix

You are completely correct. Before flying off the handle I always get my OU measuring equipment out. In itself it is a generator of free energy. The equivilant to a crystal radio. Yes, rectify, smooth and then meter.
Don't let your equipment be your only view of these things. Use your senses also. A scope has fooled me as often as a meter. It is a 2D view of a electric perspective of a world that is more than electric.
Sometimes you must be even more intuitive than early explorers because your equipment makes you look at these things in fewer ways.

@Esa

Very key point about perpendicular movement doing the real amplification of movement. It is much easier to twist instead of extend

@tao

I am delighted that you have understood the perspective which I was seeing the 'OU' community from, it is a shame that even seemingly high minded individuals like John Bedinin & Tom Bearden, who I admire so much, appear to have adopted the strategy of muddying the waters in preference of their own financial gain rather than the beterment of humanitys lot...

@ mannix

Very helpful advice for a beginner like me, and many others I am sure...

@ tao, bep, z_p_e, mannix and all

As I previously stated I often play devils advocate, not purposely in a negative sense, but as I stated often when one shakes the tree fruits fall out. I do consider this to be probably the best instance of that coming true that I have seen so far. Being a tad aggressive often puts people on the defensive and they are often prepared to give detailed responses in order to 'defend' their positions, which they might not otherwise do, which benefit the 'attacker' but also others who view the arguments...

Of course if one shakes the tree it sometimes falls over, bops you on the head and awakens you to the true 'reality of the situation'. This has been the effect of tao's responses on me, and I hope others who have been taken in by the over optimistic portrayals of the OU scenes results. Now I can understand the 'build, build, build' mentality from it true perspective, rather than my previously nieve, one of frustration at so much having appeared to be achieved by individuals, but not revealed due to their selfishness. But they are all human, it is a dog eat dog world, despite there being no necessity for it to be so...

In summary I apologise for my arrogant attitude, warped perspective and nievity prior to this post, but hope that you can understand it in light of tao's most informative and helpful post. I am not naturally a pesimistic person, and do wish the best to everyone here.. and am immensly grateful for the free education which you have provided me.

I will now endeavour to build given my new understanding of it imperative necessity, I have plenty of ideas, and if I do find an OU solution it will release it without any condition here... as I sure and hope most of you would also do.

So forward I go on this immensly fun and frustrating shared journey... to build, with minimal resources... speakers instead of meters...

However in order to start me off in the right directions, can I ask that if there are any very simple OU effects that can be experimented with, for a beginner with little equipment, such 'the excess current in a wire' type scenario... would you please post them here...

Kind Regards to All

Acerzw

If someone is interested to discuss about phonon emission theory, you are welcome to discuss under my old phonon boson subject.

Esa

@Esa Maunu

QuoteIf you use a helical coil around the magnetostrictive rod, it does not create linear lenght changes for this rod.
Helical coil creates a twistingÃ,  effect and torgue for magnetostrictive rod, this phenomena is also known as Wiedemann effect. ...

Esa,Ã,  I disagree.Ã,  The magnetostriction phenomena involves a lengthening of the material ALONG THE ORIENTATION OF THE MAGNETIC DOMAINS, and I'm sure you know that a solenoidal coil produces a AXIAL magnetic field, hence the lengthening happens along the AXIS or the length of the rod.

The Wiedemann effect is something else, but quite related.Ã,  that's where you impose a radial external magnetic field at, for example the middle of the rod, like I showed in my previous postings.Ã, 

EM

@BEP,  nice coil, but how do you plan on taping the vibration and inducing current?   

.

All

Have you wondered why you need the DC bias?Ã, 

If you've built oscillators and amplifiers you will understand.

EM

Here's the magnetostriction chart again, showing the changes in the driving current producing the strain or change in length.

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on October 09, 2007, 09:54:34 AM
@Esa Maunu

QuoteIf you use a helical coil around the magnetostrictive rod, it does not create linear lenght changes for this rod.
Helical coil creates a twisting  effect and torgue for magnetostrictive rod, this phenomena is also known as Wiedemann effect. ...

Esa,  I disagree.  The magnetostriction phenomena involves a lengthening of the material ALONG THE ORIENTATION OF THE MAGNETIC DOMAINS, and I'm sure you know that a solenoidal coil produces a AXIAL magnetic field, hence the lengthening happens along the AXIS or the length of the rod.

The Wiedemann effect is something else, but quite related.  that's where you impose a radial external magnetic field at, for example the middle of the rod, like I showed in my previous postings. 

EM

It depends if you use helical coil or just solenoidal coil. In your picture it looks like helical coil. but even if you use solenoidal coil and apply a current in to this rod, you can get a twisting effect. On the other hand i don`t think that this produces OU. But who knows..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostriction

Esa

.

QuoteAs far as which direction it goes - both. The only question in my mind is which one provides the most movement...

BEP, make sure you push the material into SATURATION.   If you push it one way into saturation and then reverse the current you will not be quite at the same point on the MAGNETISATION CURVE.     Hysterisis my friend, keep that in mind.

EM

Here's a better operation Region on the curves.

This is the principle of Amplification.

With a small signal change (d) we create a larger strain (S)

EM

P.S.   I'm not going to give out any more clues from here on out.  I led you far enough.  I'm not sure if people have the necessary skills to do this or not, a few of you I'm sure have what it takes.   I'll be available via PMs.   The next thing you will see from me is a nice video lighting 100 watt lightbulbs with no batteries    :)

Hi everyone,

Just to support the direction we are investigating, here is a snippet of a tech document. No I don't have the whole document but it proves science is looking at it aswell....

Towards Modelling and Design of Magnetostrictive Electric Generators

During the last decades the interest in research and development of smart actuators, sensors and power generators that used giant magnetostrictive materials is continually growing. Both academia and industry are actively looking for bread utilization of this technology for different applications (active vibration and noise control, structural health monitoring, self-powered electronic equipments and systems, MEMS, robotics, biomedical engineering, etc.). The proposed paper is in the field of applications of novel highly magnetostrictive materials for power harvesting, namely vibration-to-electric energy conversion. The term Ã,“power harvestingÃ,” is used for process of acquiring the energy surrounding a system and converting it into usable electrical energy. The problem of modelling and design of magnetostrictive electric generators (MEG) are considered. The fundamental basic for design of MEG is a Villari effect. That is, by applying a mechanical stress to a magnetostrictive material, the magnetization along the direction of the applied stress of the material varies due to the magnetostrictive effect. The flux variation obtained in the material induces an emf in a coil surrounding the material. The brief review on research and development of power generators using smart materials is given. Original MEG and the respective test rig which were built for study fundamentals of transduction processes of mechanical energy of vibrating structures into electrical energy are presented. Terfenol Ã,â€" D rod with 50 mm in length and 15 mm in diameter is used as an active material in MEG design. Test rigÃ,’s measurement data have confirmed the expected performance of the MEG. These data are used for validation of the mathematical model of MEG that was developed and implemented in Matlab/Simulink environment.

regards

Robert

http://www.miklagaard.com/longitudinal-electric-waves

.

EM do you think there are RF frequencies ie 500k + involved on the collectors or the collector is not placed into natural resonance but it is simply induced with magnetic harmonics of lower frequencies? This might work as a differencing amplifier and the gap between the collectors becomes the wave guide.

@ marco i know you have all you need
care to help me with tubes? i want to build a tube rack to test with but where to start?

hummmm...

how about the 12ax7 tube they are easy to get any guitar shop will have them

i want to build my amps as stable as possible and i want to use them on all rings the tube rack will be a peice of test equipment just like the scope it will be a nessary

tubes are the next step  ;D

and im all ready

@bolt is there  a certian tube you would reccomend? for this appclation?

shoping time ;D

but first we need a list!!

ist

Quote from: Grumpy on October 09, 2007, 02:17:25 PM
http://www.miklagaard.com/longitudinal-electric-waves

Nice link, interesting

All kinds of info on this magnetostriction
http://www.globalspec.com/goto/PDFViewer?pdfURL=%2FMTSSensors%2Fref%2FMagnetostriction%2Epdf&isPastIssue=true&id={id}&email={email}&Vol=Vol2Issue2&Pub=38&LinkId=17271&keyword=link_17271&frmtrk=newsletter

Another link, need a translator
http://www.win.tue.nl/~hemerik/2R930/Scripties/Berkers,vdBorne,Berden/hoc/magnetostrictive_delay_line.html

What a final version should be
http://www.s-trademart.com/co/d/daehansens/product.html?grp=GC01218688&cid=CA01218801

Also with the heating issues, you could use memory wire "nitinol" with a predefined shape imbed
  so when said unit begins to overheat the nitinol wire will deform overall design parameter and
  therefore degrade effeciency in effect a "thermometer"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_alloy

Quote from: innovation_station on October 09, 2007, 06:15:23 PM
@ marco i know you have all you need
care to help me with tubes? i want to build a tube rack to test with but where to start?

hummmm...

ist

hey i'm also trying to build the tube drive from some old papers that i will combine.
maybe we can ask Pese about a 3 channel push pull circuit...

Marco

.

.

Quote from: BEP on October 09, 2007, 11:55:15 AM
@Earl
I think you probably have most if not all the answers here. Any opinions?

Hehehe, thanks for the compliment.

Attached is an idea where one end of a vertical string / wire / bar / bundle / whatever /  is attracted to a lossless, instantaneously-acting "magnetic spring".  This "spring" consists of two attracting magnets.  One magnet would be moved by magnetostriction.  The amplitude of the magnet's movement is not important, only its speed.

With a high enough magnet speed, output would exceed input.

With a test setup inverted to that shown, one could easy measure the contribution from "gravity" and compare between both versions.

Of course the pulsed material should have the largest magnetosriction and most fast-acting as possible.

@EM
how many hours or days do you need to build this and test & measure ?

Regards, Earl

.

@EM

Myself, I am not planning to implement your idea, but you might find the attached articles from a University in Brazil extremely interesting for your setup, especially, starting from the second article. Each article is about the same theory but with more details and fixed explanations.

Kames.

hi to all
 

I HAVE TOLD  YOU  THAT    WHIT  ONE CIKC   WHIT DC   IS PRODUCES   1000  OR 10000  KICKI FOR ONE SECOND
  THAT CAN BE  MAKE  WHIT  BATERY OR  PERMANENT MAGNET 
<<< EXPLANATIONS   IF YOU BRING  CLOUSE  PERM. MAAG N   TO  MANY WIRES   THAN  IN THE WIRES  WHILL BE  PRODUCED DC  ONLY ONE SECOND >> BUT  I FIND I WAY HOW  TO MAKE OSCILATIONS  WHIT  ONLY ONE KICK  THE POINT OF THIS IS HOW TO MAKE  A COILS  NOW  I NOT TELL YOU  HOOW TO MAKE THIS  >>ONLY I TELL YOU THIS

TPU  HAVE THIIS ELEMENT  .... ONE COLECTOR COIL WHIT  SOME TURNS   ..AND CONTROL COIL HO HAVE MANY TURNS  .. THEN ONLY YOU NEED TO HOW TO MAKE  10000 KICKS  PER SECOND ONLY  PUSH WHIT ONE SECOND OF DC VOLTAGE THEN THIS INPUT VOLTAGE  YOU DONT NEED ENY MORE  OR  WHIT PERM MAGN.  ..
THIS SECRET  I HAVE FOUND  OF  READ SOME PATENT   TH S.M   IS START WHIT SIMPLE PER, MAG  TO PRODUCED  SMALL KICK  ONLY ONE SECOND   THEN  CONTROL COIL PRODUCED  10000  KICK  WHIT  HIS  SMALL ELEKTRMAGNET FILD    YOU IMAGEN  YOU HAVE  SMALL ELEK. MAG WHIT SPEED  THEN THE COLECTORS COIL BRINGTHE POWER 
NO ORE EXPLANATIONS  ENYY MOE  IF YOU DONT ANDERSTEND  HOW  YOU DONT  NOW  ELEKTRONIKS  ,,  AND ANTHER THE TPU IS NOT HAVE ELKTONICS COMPONENTS
NO TRANSISTOR OR SOMEYHING ELSE  ONLY COILS AND START BATERY  OR  PERM .MAGN  FOR STARTING THIS   BY  8) 8) 8)

@all

I have been looking at the open TPU for several days straight, trying to make heads or tails of such a short video and of such bad quality. There are some things that I have seen and have put them here for your comments. I also made a diagram of the TPU so you can have a concrete look. If some of you are into it, please take some time to review the video and see if there are other things I did not notice.

Some deductive observations;

1) When putting magnets on the top of the two coils. If the base onto which the magnet was placed was metallic, it would have jumped to the spot when nearing the location. This did not happen so I am confident there was no metal under the magnet. I did a quick test with a coil and a magnet and one way the magnet would stick closer and reversing the polarity the magnet would fly off. So this means the coils under the magnets never change polarity, otherwise the magnets would have flown off their seats. Also, I think these magnets have a dual purpose.

A) Connect a reed switch inside the coil with possible batteries. If the coils had Lytz wire, some of the strands could be used to turn on the circuit. There could also be 1 or more batteries inside the coils. This is just a best guess and not based on any real observation save the fact that the magnets require some form of mechanism to turn on the TPU. Also if there were batteries, what better place then below the magnets, for quick access for battery replacements.

B) I think the coils are being pulsed on and off at 6000 or more cycles per second, sending its magnetic field over its left and right collectors, thus passing a magnet over a wire to produce current. It is that simple. The magnet on top of the coil is not only used to activate a reed switch but also to deflect the coil field so as to spread it out over the collectors. He said an inherent vibration, not a frequency. What is the best wire type to produce the widest field?

3) You can most certainly rule out any metallic rings since the weight of such metal rings, with the dimension and thickness as seen on the demo would have made it much much heavier and SM would not have been able to manipulate it by lifting, turning in one hand, etc., so effortlessly. You can see that his fingers are straight when he is holding it in one hand, something that would be impossible if the device had any substantial weight, since he would have held it in a full palm grip or had a few fingers inwards to counter the weight.

4) There are only three legs on the TPU. You will notice at 38:38 there is a circuit going downwards to the right of the metallic box. It is about 1.5" by 4" and is bracketed to the top output speaker terminal, the white wires are going there. The circuit is just a tad too long, but enough so that the TPU swings on the circuit board and one other leg when on the table. At 38:38 I can see what I think is a variable capacitor and other components. Neet. This enforces the fact that the rings are not made of metal since SM would have never put so much weight onto the circuit board.

wattsup

@Wattsup,

what if the two coils under the magnets are needed to develop the first kicks? Remember the infamous:.....if you slide a magnet over a wire you get something, if you do it over 1000 wires you get 1000 x something....so I've in front of me 20 meters of Litz cable with  640 isolated strands....and if I'm so mad to cut  10 cm of that cable , splice the 640 +640 end single leads and take my time to put them for example half in series and half in parallel?....at the end I should have a 'consistent' pulse  after the magnet sliding action.
What do you think?

Roberto

.

@BEP

Thanks for your comments. I don't know either and that's why I wanted to get the most info on the build out there, first.

Actually I think if z_p_e could use his post #1 to keep a build spec specific to this design, we could add to it as parameters get more precise.

Things to keep track of would be.

1) Concrete observations of the TPU
2) Less concrete but observable.
3) Explanations for item #1.
4) Theories for item #2.

I'd say within two weeks of brainstorming on this device, it should be clear enough to then make a specific build spec with minimal variables to test.

@Roberto

I think you will get a kick anyways just by pulsing on/off.

Now with a coil having Litz wire, lets say you wound all 20 metres as a coil. You would have 640 coils if you used them individually. Imagine. You can use 25% of them to pulse 3000 cycles, 25% to pulse another 3000 cycles but both could be inverse meaning when one is off, the other is on. This would create a constant pulse field with half less maximum amperage. The other 25% could be used to capture flyback, while the remain 25% could be split into three to pulse frequencies. All on the same wire. You could even have some strands going from internal batteries to power the circuit at start up.

"Wire is very important". Yes it is. He did not say wire, metals and frequencies.

I can't really say concretely as this is part of the discovery. But what I am trying to point to you guys is that you have to keep this real. If you have a theory of operation, fine, point to me physically where in the TPU you are talking about. If it does not fit the TPU physically, then forget it and find another theory.

As long as the theory can fit inside a TPU using what there is there, contrained to a circuit board of about 1.5" x 4", etc., etc. Then these would be considered valid. If you keep the physical TPU in mind at all times, this will be your guide to theorize in specifics. Keep it real.

Roberto, I understand you are saying this may start without any batteries. This is also a fine theory cause physically we cannot see the batteries. But I do know that when you look at the bottom of the Leg #2, the one that holds Coil and Magnet #2, the leg is hollow. Also the Leg #3 has tape wrapped around and under the leg. Even if the TPU was started by battery, let's say (2 x 1.5 volts computer type) 3 volts under each coil, that's 6 volts. This may be just enough to start the unit but never enough to keep it going so the TPU has already proven itself indeed. If you start with batteries, get the device to work, then you can worry about getting rid of the batteries afterwards.

But come to think of it, you can also presume with what is given on the table, that the two coils are not used to produce a magnetic field over the collectors, but that it is used to catch a magnetic field produced by the collectors. So you put your magnet on the coil, it produces a current that energizes the circuit so it then pulses the collectors. So by pulsing the collectors, you are sending the fields towards the coil, that energizes the circuit, that pulses the collectors, and so on in a loop. This would be a valid theory also. So this device may work without batteries if the coil is used as an inductor, like i am sure he is doing in the large TPU.

But if the coil is used only as a simple pulses field generator, where could the energy come from if not from a battery to start it?

So, tests would have to be made to see how much initial voltage may be produced by simply putting a magnet onto a litz coil (or inductor) and then designing the circuit to start with that voltage and having to work it upwards in a loop.

.

Just re-watched the 38 minute U.E.C video and noticed a couple of interesting things:

SM mentions toward the end that TPU's have been tested to 15k feet in airplanes and still functioned, but with some "slight voltage variation", and after this he mentions that TPU's are "frequency sensitive".

Earlier, when SM is demonstrating the large ring, he flips a switch to turn on the first frequency and then another for the second frequency.  He does not mention a third frequency.

The most interesting thing is that SM does not apply a magnet or other device to start the TPU's, except for the switches on the large one.  It's like they immediately operate once a load is applied to close the circuit.  Only the large TPU has the familiar electrical components in the center, the medium one has a box-like appendage on one side and the small one appears to have nothing like this.  SM says that the power comes from inside the devices and that they are not recieving or coupling power from another sourse, but if the source were "passive" and not known or understood then there could be a source.

Could it be that the devices are "tuned" to some sort of ambiant source of energy, of a "universal" nature?  Like a tuning fork that starts vibrating in the presence of another of the same frequency.  Tesla mentioned "kinetic energy" throughout the universe which he referred to as the "wheelwork of nature".

Not throwing a fit by deleting my posts. Just cleaning house. I'll start my own thread for my build when ready and after I have the ability to lock it while I'm posting the information. The things I had posted were too specific to my opinions and results.

@EM

The reason I coudn't measure the MS was because my mechanical gauges are not accurate enough to register it even though I could feel the vibration and extention. Like Earl keeps saying - it isn't the amplitude that is important it is the speed.

Quote from: Grumpy on October 11, 2007, 04:51:14 PM
Just re-watched the 38 minute U.E.C video and noticed a couple of interesting things:

SM mentions toward the end that TPU's have been tested to 15k feet in airplanes and still functioned, but with some "slight voltage variation", and after this he mentions that TPU's are "frequency sensitive".

Earlier, when SM is demonstrating the large ring, he flips a switch to turn on the first frequency and then another for the second frequency.  He does not mention a third frequency.
[snip]

He does not directly mention a third frequency.

One could also assume that switch 1 turns on a carrier frequency.  Switch 2 turns on a modulating oscillator (F2).  Now the carrier is, for example, amplitude modulated.  This automatically gives the following frequencies:
Carrier frequency
carrier plus F2
carrier minus F2

Now we have the famous 3 frequencies, created by using only 2.

Further, we could theorize that F2 is derived from F1 by means of frequency dividers or maybe simple injection locking.  In other words there is an exact integer relationship between the two frequencies like 1:2 or 1:3 or 1:4 or 1:5 or 1:X.  Maybe this relationship is the famous "harmonic perfection"?
Should the modulation not be AM, but 2-phase - - this could be achieved by flipping the phase 180 degrees, which is not difficult to do.

In closing, I would like to say that although MAC CD's posts are more difficult to read, he has a keen analysis and I found his last post to be very intriguing.  The openTPU must be very simple.

Regards, Earl

Unless we object, I would encourage you gentleman to each start a new thread for the open TPU and the magnetostriction ideas.

This is only a suggestion, but it would keep the focus on each work respectively, instead of having one thread alternate between two major themes. You would then also have full control over your updated documents available on your first post.

btw wattsup, nice work again ;) Are you sure you see two vertical coils there on the legs? I always assumed there might be coils there, perhaps inside the legs, but I could not see any on the outside myself.

Cheers,
Darren

One other thing:

In this U.E.C video, SM turns the 6" TPU in several directions and it keeps working, so it appears that he has eliminated the "flipping over" problem.

Each TPU has a thick section to it - like 3/4" to 1".  This is far thicker than required for just a single wrap around a core wire - even a thick one.


Hmm. Perhaps a "loose" coupling is required between the controls and the collector...

Grumpy you posted over 600 messages yet i can only imagine you are covering the same stuff over and over. The 2 frequency theory has been discussed many times as 2 frequencies can easily make 3 but this is no mystery SM says in the vids turning on 1 then 2 which really makes 3 we know that for sure because its in his notes! He said use THREE frequencies.

The inversion has been covered too because the device becomes polarized when its not symmetrical. By moving the control down inside the coil instead of on top the polarization is lost. But i always wondered why so many thought this was some kind of a major problem even the "investors" mentioned this but what the heck do you worry about your car battery working upside down or not so the acid pours out? Mine works perfectly well up one way and thats all we need to know.

As for the gap yes we can all see that and should do the same. It may be required to reduce feedback or to produce a capacitance effect/ waveguide and is surprisingly one characteristic which has remained throughout the tpu range so it must be very important.

I was leading up to something, but screw it! 

(Polarized when not symmetrical - LOL!)

Since you have all the answers, where's your working TPU?

Grumpy thats the first time i seen you laugh:)

Just noticed this.

The ring is made of black 1/4" Plexiglass. That's why some of the ends are chipped. Also and as incredibly as it may seem, again at 38:38 you can see his right hand thumb through the Plexiglass when he tilts the bottom of the tpu towards the camera. That also explains why you could mistake an outer wire going around the TPU, which it does not. The outer edge is darker and the flat side is lighter because of the rings semi-transparent nature. That's also why it is so reflective when the two lamps are lit, you can see the bright reflections off the TPU.

It's funny, when I first started looking at this device, I saw a dark video with not much definition. But once you start looking and you start knowing what you are looking at, it starts making sense. You concentrate less on those points as they are now obvious and start looking for other angles.

More time will tell.

I also saw two white wires going to a third coil (on leg #3), but I have to look more closely. I will have to revise the drawing when I get more changes.

You have to be careful. The video can create illusions when looked at in pause mode. You have to advance or reverse frame by frame to make sure the object is on the TPU and not background crap, like his pants, the plug box, the small black object on the table, etc. In certain angles, you will see the collector #1 much fatter. Makes it look like it is wound over another coil, but it's not. Those collectors are well wound and they look tight. And I am beginning to see the collector wires are not regular round conductor wire. It resembles the ovalish telephone wires and may be more than 1 conductor. Now this is starting to make more sense.

If there are two conductors or more in the collector wires, you can use them as two fields turning. You can have them turn in opposite directions. Son of a gun, just like when he slaps his hands together to show the fields in continuous collisions.
They can even turn in the same direction but with a slight delay to create drag on the coils. I'm freaking out.

You can use one as feedback. There could be three wires in the collector wire.

Wire is important for sure. Both the collectors and coils are special wiring. Nothing standard.

@z_p_e

Maybe we should stick around here instead of spreading out too thin.

I don't remember talking about a vertical coil on the legs. Could you point me there.

@BEP

First off, I hope you were not thinking that I was pointing at you in particular in my last post. I was not and excuse me if it seemed so. I was pointing to everyone and anyone who is working on this device. Sorry again.

You know, every post I put down, I don't put down an average of 2 others. Words are words.

I would rather spend some time inspecting the hell out of this device before I make a build spec in order to reduce the variables to an ultimate minimum. If this can save others time and grief, then it is worth it.

SM said he used a bit of old lamp or speaker wire. That tends to come as a pair sometimes fig 8 with a slight twist. He said the thinner copper stuff works just as good as thick chunky cable. If his notes are true and uniform throughout the model range (probably not) there should be 3 control coils and 3 collectors although collectors can easily be 1 + 2.

You should ask Mannix to send you the decent quality vids im sure he has the full Xmas box set in HDTV. :)

Hi all!

@Wattsup,

well after my post I went to my workbench and I did the following test: just coiled 20 mt of my 40 leads Litz wire  (coil diameter = 10 cm on air) soldered all the leads together on both ends and connected them to my scope  (so not serializing anything for now).

Then SLIDED a 1cm x 4 cm ceramic bar magnet over.

YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED: ABOUT 0.3 V peak to peak DC output!!!!!!!! with a fdo just following the magnet movement....FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY ASPECTATIVE!!!

So CHARGED by that fact I took an old air coil I used for spark experiments (coil with 500 turn of 0.25 mm enameled wire) and did same tests, results:

AS BEFORE BUT WITH  ALMOST 0.7V


Then I put two magnets: on coil top & bottom: the effect is still enhanced: about .9V output

Conclusion for now: it's my opinion that it's not difficult at all to obtain kicks without any external supply...just use a magnet.  It worths to build on the Wattsup idea to inject output signal on some Litz leads in order to obtain quickly a sort of regeneration=kick multiplication.

It is possible if you want to show some pics about said tests.

@ all
next step IS TO FIND THE CORRECT WAY TO USE THE MAG GENERATED KICK!  please do expose yours ideas  as I can check them quickly!

Roberto

Hello all,

@Roberto,

try to connect as a Mobius.

Otto

Hello all,

I need to clear up a bit of confusion that I have. But first I would like to relate an experience from my youth.

When I was younger I would build these massive coils with as much inductance as possible. I would then connect a 9 Volt battery and get the magnetic field to full strength. Now when the voltage to the coil was cut the field would collapse and I would get a large back EMF tens of times the voltage used to create the field. This was great for terrorizing unsuspecting younger siblings and small animals. (I had too much fun.)

I knew this back EMF as a "Kickback" or "Back-kick"

My question is; is this back-kick the same as the kicks that SM talks about. And also, and not separate from, are SM's "kicks" also what is generally known as "overshoot" and "undershoot?"
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Ff%2Fff%2FClock_signal.gif&hash=da1706f9928f686908e3d37be948ce99fcd79d27)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot)

Just trying to make this as clear as crystal.

Quote@z_p_e

Maybe we should stick around here instead of spreading out too thin.

I don't remember talking about a vertical coil on the legs. Could you point me there.

wattsup,

It's on your latest diagram, labeled as "coil #1" and "coil #2". These are vertical coils (legs) which I  can not see in the video.

The legs are obviously there, but I can not see wire wound on them. Does anyone else see wire there?

@z_p_e

Coil 1 and 2 are horizontal coils wound on the legs between the rings. That's about it. I did not talk about verticals on the legs themselves. But I can notice as someone else had pointed out that on leg #2, we can see it is cover with a material in order to hide what's under it. I could see a hole at the bottom of that leg. But nothing is evident to show there is a coil wound vertical on the legs.

The only other leg thing is leg #3 that has tape wound vertically over it. This is the leg were I saw another coil. So there should be three coils, four collectors but I need a little more time to formalize this.

I found the post by Duff referring to this;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3403.msg52914.html#msg52914

@Duff

Please take some time and look some more.

@EM

How did you get such a clear image. Can you do some more of this magic?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3403.msg52797.html#msg52797

@Roberto

FANTASTIC Result!!!!!!!!!!!! This is surely enough to get a cycle going in a loop.

If the circuit was fed by the coils through a zener diode, would this turn on the circuit if the voltage reached a certain minimal level?

I will find a plexiglass piece and wind two collectors and a center coil to see what happens with half an open tpu (but nothing fancy).

I will also try to look again at the video if there is a second magnet below the coils.

Also, I want to concentrate a little more on the circuit and post some big pictures so the EEers can have a better look.

Quote from: ronotte on October 12, 2007, 05:25:25 AM
@ all
next step IS TO FIND THE CORRECT WAY TO USE THE MAG GENERATED KICK!  please do expose yours ideas  as I can check them quickly!

Roberto

OK Roberto,

A control coil - wrapped along entire length of collector - spaced so as to add two more controls - or just wrap three at once.

Find longitudinal resonance freq of the control coil.  The mag field will no be in direction of collector but perpendicular to it -  ;D  See if you can get the effect of a magnet moving along the wire - perpendicular to it.  SM mentioned that he had measured teh control coils and that they were in the Mhz range - this correlates to Mark Snoswell's longitudinal resonant frequencies in his coils.  A "loose coupling" may prove better than tight coupling with this arrangement.  Using sine waves, I expect that the effect of a magnet rolling N-over-S along the wire is achieved. 

In music, a chord is three notes that sound simultaniously - SM referred to this.

Based on the work of Sarasin and De La Rive, a circular loop of wire with a gap in it (resembles a collector coil) will resonate at 4 X diameter, yet will "recieve" any frequency.  Tesla went to visit Hertz the exaplain to him that his "resonator" (the circular loop with a spark gap in it) recieved "longitudinal waves" - Hertz did not appreciate this.  Helmholtz and many others at the time were supporters of the "longitudinal wave propagation" theory.

In short, I think that SM "chord" may be rsonant with a huge wave of electric potetnial, either "earthly" or "universally".  Review of the interactions between earth and the sun support this idea.  There are huge waves of potential - everywhere - so when you "find the circuit ptential" are you merely resonating with the ambiant potential?   Recieving such a huge amount of energy would be detrimental...

Quote from: ronotte on October 12, 2007, 05:25:25 AM
@ all
next step IS TO FIND THE CORRECT WAY TO USE THE MAG GENERATED KICK!  please do expose yours ideas  as I can check them quickly!

Roberto

OK Roberto,

A control coil - wrapped along entire length of collector - spaced so as to add two more controls - or just wrap three at once.

Find longitudinal resonance freq of the control coil.  The mag field will no be in direction of collector but perpendicular to it -  ;D  See if you can get the effect of a magnet moving along the wire - perpendicular to it.  SM mentioned that he had measured teh control coils and that they were in the Mhz range - this correlates to Mark Snoswell's longitudinal resonant frequencies in his coils.  A "loose coupling" may prove better than tight coupling with this arrangement.  Using sine waves, I expect that the effect of a magnet rolling N-over-S along the wire is achieved. 

In music, a chord is three notes that sound simultaniously - SM referred to this.

Based on the work of Sarasin and De La Rive, a circular loop of wire with a gap in it (resembles a collector coil) will resonate at 4 X diameter, yet will "recieve" any frequency.  Tesla went to visit Hertz the exaplain to him that his "resonator" (the circular loop with a spark gap in it) recieved "longitudinal waves" - Hertz did not appreciate this.  Helmholtz and many others at the time were supporters of the "longitudinal wave propagation" theory.

In short, I think that SM "chord" may be rsonant with a huge wave of electric potetnial, either "earthly" or "universally".  Review of the interactions between earth and the sun support this idea.  There are huge waves of potential - everywhere - so when you "find the circuit ptential" are you merely resonating with the ambiant potential?   Recieving such a huge amount of energy would be detrimental...

.

Quote from: duff on October 12, 2007, 03:59:16 PM

I'm supprised that more discussion related to MACEDONIA CD's post of October 11, 2007, 17:10:15  is not taking place.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3409.msg54077.html#msg54077

He is obviously on to something that we need to try and figure out being that he's not giving us the details as to how he accompished what appears to be spiral rotation around the collector wire (look at the dawing). He states its in the way the control coils are wound.

I don't know why people post teasers and not just disclose the details - certainly it be benificial to all and a real TIME SAVER.

-Duff

This is the same thing I was talking about with the longitudinal resonance of the control - the mag field is perp to wire so will spiral around it same as the wire.

.

HI
TOANDERSTEND MY ONLY YOU NEED SMALL PIECES OF WIRE ABOUT 5 cm THEN YOU MOVE PERM,MAG  HORISONTAL THHEN VERTICAL OR AROUND  YOU WHILL SEE THE DIFERENTS VOLTAGE  YOU MOST MOVE THE MAGNET WHIT THE SAME SPEED TO SEE THE DIFERENT BEATVEANE THIS 2 DIFERENTS MOVING OF MAGNET   8) 8) 8)

Hi all,

I am presently studying the Litz wire question, choice of wire type, etc.

I found this site that explains it pretty well.

http://www.litz-wire.com/applications.html

Here's another site with lots of litz calculations, etc.
I can't seem to open the pdf's but maybe you will have better luck.
http://thayer.dartmouth.edu/inductor/intro.shtml

Good read. Above my head but good read.
I know this read hits some important nails.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup197/slup197.pdf

This table shows Lizt wire depending on frequency range.
http://www.hmwire.com/pdf%20files/Round_Litz_Recommendations_2B72407.pdf

Really good rundown on Litz wire types.
http://www.newenglandwire.com/nepdfs/litz_Brochure.pdf

Optimal Choice for Number of Strands in a Litz-Wire Transformer Winding
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sullivan/litzwire/litz.html

.

Quote from: duff on October 12, 2007, 06:46:55 PM
...because at the top of the thread he refers to ultra sound.

Longitudinal waves propagate like sound waves.

Hi all,

@Whatsup

THANKS for the Litz link...really a lot of  goodies....I'm really happy.......I'll need to read it deeply and use it on line.

@Duff

1 - in my case I did 2 tests one with a 20mt Litz coil and one using a 500mt thin enameled wire coil. In both case the magnet (NEO) were sliding on top or coil bottom. If I operate the coil side I obtain very small effect. Of course is normal that if you take your heavily coiled bobbin in your hand (or slide your hand very near) it will do like an antenna...capturing mainly your body leakage 50 Hz. In my case I always stayed far from the coil and the background noise were about 20 millivolt in relation to 400 - 500millivolt due to mag swinging over the coil top.
NOTE: if I move the coil only  -->  NO EFFECT.
2 - it's funny you did not had a very good reaction with your high speed gtest (it is not that in the open TPU the grey side thingh is just a small DC motor?). I'll chek it as well but in an easier way: just how told by MACEDONIA CD. I'll report on this.

@Grumpy

OK about your suggestion to put the kick coil all over the ring: in my case it will be lumped in 3 spaces as other places are already fitted with 3 control coils. I do confirm that bandwidth for the small test prototype is from 30 KHz into megahertz range.
One point to note is that the output voltage is strictly following the magnet sliding on top of the test coil, so it's NOT A KICK but just a small DC amplitude variation with the time. With such an fdo I wonder if it can be useful to induce anything on exixting 90 degree collector wire!
SO HOW TO EASILY TRANSFORM A SLOW DC VARIATION INTO A KICK USEFUL FOR OUR PURPOSES?

@MACEDONIA CD,

The last question is also for you as it seems that you know it better: to summarize we do need a kick coil excited by the relatively slow hand sliding of a magnet and able to deliver at least one fast kick that in turn would be multiplicated by the induction into our existing Control coils.  As you have seen I did some tests on single wire and high coiled bobbins...but always using hand linear magnet sliding. OK i'll try next with hand movement of magnet around the wire...I'm just going to do it and I'll report the difference.  Anyway , doing by hand I'll have still slow DC voltage NOT KICKs....so the problem will be still opened.

Roberto

Hi all,

@MACEDONIA CD

as previously said I just did the following test:

1 - I took a piece of 15 cm of Litz wire (40 threads) then kept it stright on two rigid supports and put scope probe in derivation.
2 - Set scope sensibility to 20 millivolt/div and slided by hand horizonthally  and then vertically my  1x4 x .5 cm my NEO magnet bar. RESULT = 10 mV noise steady - no activity indication on scope. Clearly the wire lenght is too short and unable to catch also the strong mag field coming in either way from the NEO magnet.
3- tried the same but revolving by hand the NEO around the wire: same result - nothing.

MACEDONIA:

"TOANDERSTEND MY ONLY YOU NEED SMALL PIECES OF WIRE ABOUT 5 cm THEN YOU MOVE PERM,MAG  HORISONTAL THHEN VERTICAL OR AROUND  YOU WHILL SEE THE DIFERENTS VOLTAGE  YOU MOST MOVE THE MAGNET WHIT THE SAME SPEED TO SEE THE DIFERENT BEATVEANE THIS 2 DIFERENTS MOVING OF MAGNET"     

Why do you claim such kind of results?.....we have not time to loose. If you are on something please document it full like I do! I'll be first to congratulate. I'm much interested in obtaining KICKS : NOT SLOW DC VOLTAGE SWING.

@ all

I tried to put my NEO in my hand driller chuck and run it slow near the top of my 20 mt Litz lumped  KICK COIL: OK I've a very good sinusoid of about 0.5 V ptp (about 1 V or more using a bigger NEO). So if this's the way (open TPU perhaps uses a small DC motor to do the trick) how do you suggest to transform it in kicks without use of any electronics? (I tried to resonate the output but  for the moment no results....)

Roberto

@Roberto

Good to see you like the links. I will put up some more on that same post. I just put another link showing Litz wire AWG versus frequency range.

For tests like MAC's, remember if the wire strands are in parallel this will increase amperage, if it is in series, this will increase voltage. So you may  be seeing low voltage but the amperage should be higher.

Looking at the video, I would take a guess to say the coil wire Litz is 16 AWG and according to the table for 6000 hertz (1khz-10khz range), it would be a 26 strands of 30 AWG wire.

Now the problem here is it could also be a 14 AWG which would make 42 strands at 30 AWG. I will look at this further to see if I can pick up any visuals for a better size comparison, etc.

One other major thing I have observed on the Coil #2, I think I am seeing a round magnet or a ferrit core or something else round that is taped on the outer side of the coil. I am putting two photo close-ups, one regular photo and one with britness adjusted to show this and maybe others can  get a better idea on what this may be. I am sure it is not the natural curvature of wound coil wires.

Sorry if I am putting these observations one after the other, but this video is really short and crappy and you have to spend alot of time looking and looking to see the small nuances.

So there could be one magnet on the side of the coil and another placed manually on top. Maybe the shifting action between of both fields is creating a field movement. Also, there could be another magnet on the inner side of the coil.

I am going to my favorite electronics  place to see if they have Litz so I can do some testing myself on this question. Not everyone sells Litz wire. I have seen some on ebay. When I saw this item I was thinking of Otto for this ECD rings.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Litz-wire-175-46-coils-Loop-antennas-crystal-sets-100_W0QQitemZ300160862204QQihZ020QQcategoryZ26213QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

HI 
i realy dont anderstend me in the england languege  if you able to make anderstend in my languege  i whill tell in my languege is easy way   , i read some reply of otto  is raid  way i have more ideas and more things  to make a road clears to make a move to this way  listen i now whill say in the macedonian lang..
ZDRAVO NA SITE  STO SE MI PRIJATELI  I NEPRIJATELI VAKA JAS SKORO SUM MNOGU VREME NA OVOJ FORUM I MISLAM E MNOGU DOBAR  I E LESEN ZA  KONTAKT   
OVDE DRUGO IMAM MNOGU LUGE  STO SAKAAT DA IM SE POKAZE SO SLIKI ILI SO VIDEO CLIPOVI    DOBRO NO  I DA VI PRATAM DA RECEME  STO KE VIDITE    ISTO KAO I S.M DA GLAVNITE DELOVI NE SE GLEDAAT NO  SEPAK  JAS  SUM VO FORMA DA IZRABOTAM DOBAR TPU  I DA VI GO PRATAM   DA GO VIDITE DEKA E VOZMOZNAO DA SE NAPRAVI  TOA  STO  NAIZGLED LICI EDNOSTAVNO  NO TESKO DA SE SVATI  NO SEPAK E MNOGU EDNOSTAVNO  TOA KE VI KAZAM ,, IMA  2 RABOTI KOI SE MNOGU VAZNI ZA DA SE POCNE DA SE IZRABOTI NA SLICEN ONOJ NACIN KOJ GO IZRABOTIL DA RECEME <S.M > VAKA  1 -- KE POCNAM SO OVA  JAS KAKO STO SUM GO SFATIL SO GLEDANJE NA CLIPOVITE OD S.M  ISO NEKOI PATENTI STARI STO SUM  GI CITAL  SOM POTVRDIL DEKA TOA EDINSTVEN NACIN DA SE NAPRAVI TOA   I DRUGO IMA 1 DO 3 NACINAI DA SE NAPRAVI  SLICNO  KAO S.M TPU 
SEGA
KOGA GO SLUSNAV DEKA SM KAZUVA   1 I OSNOVNO  DEKA  <<<  ZICITE NEGOVI STO SE VNATRE VO TPU SE MNOGU VAZNI  >> I DEKA  NAMOTKITE  KAKO SE NAMOTANI I NAKAKOV NACIN SE IZRABOTENI   ISTOTAKA SE VAZNI  I DA ZNAETE IMA GOLEMA VRSKA KAKO SE NAMOTANI   I E VO PRAVO S.M  SO OVA  KAZUVA VISTINA

DRUGO  ON KAZUVA VAKA    KREIRA ELEKTROMAGNET   SILA KOJ OVOZMOZUVA DVIZENJE NA ELKTRONI VO DRUGA NAMOTKA  << I VISTINA VI KAZUVAM U PRA VOE  TOJ>> E SEGA   TOJ NAPRAVIL 2  3   VIDA ZA DA NAPRAVI DVIZENJE NA ELEKTRONI 
1  E SO MAGNET PERMANENTEN   A SLEDNIOT E  SO NEKAKOF  OSCIL. KOJ GSLUZI KAO START POTOA TOJ SE ISKLUCUVA ILI SE NADOPOLNUV

PRIJATELI
VAKA TIE SE OSNOVNITE RABOTI KOJ TREBA DA GI SVATITE VIE MOZE DA IZBERETE 2 NACINA KAKO DA NAPRVITE  NESTO STO KE GO STARTUVA PRIVOT UDAR ILI <<KICK>  I VTORO KAKO DA GI NAPRAVITE NAMOTKITE
DRUGO S.M KAZUVA DEKA NEGOVOTO TPU NE SE ZAGREVA MNOGU  A JAS IMAM I ZATOA ODGOVOR  ????  KAKO NESTO TOLKUMALO I TOLKU JAKO DA NE ZAGREVA E VAK
AKO NAPRAVITE VISOKA FREKFENCIJA MISLAM NA<< LM WAVE >> TIE BRANOVI ILI FREK. IMAAT SPOSOBNOST DA GI DVIZAT SLOBODNITE ELEKTRONI KOJSE NAOGAAT NA POVRSINATA NA ZICATA  TIE NE VLIAAT NA VNATRESNITE ELEKTRO ZNAETE DEKA VNATRESNITE ELEKTRONI AKO SE DVIZAT VO VNATRESNINAT NA ZICATA TOGAS SE DOAGA DO TRIENJE  NA ATOMITE I TOGAS U TOA DVIZE ILI PAK UDIRANJE NA SEKOJ ATO M SO DRUG ATOM  SE PROIZVEDUVA TEMPERATURA ,, SO OVA VI DOKAZUVAM DEKA S.M KORISTI BRZA FREKF  ZA DA NE PROIZVEDE OD EDNASTRANE TEMPERATRA A OD DRUGA STRANA  DA NE STAVA I DA IZBEGNE  MNOGU ZICA VO TOA TPU I POKRAJ OVA   IZATOA  TOA NEGOVO TPU NEMA GOLEMA TEZINA JAS PRONAJDO NEKOI NACINI ZA DA SE NAPRAVI OVA  VAKA  PRVO  DA NE ZABORAVEM DA VE PRASAM NESTO  DALI IMATA CITANO ONA PISMO KGA S.M MU PISUVA  NA <<MANNIX >>""""""" S.M PRAVEL EXPERIMENT SO 2 TRANSFORMATORA PROCITAJTEGO TOJ DEL  DOBIL NESTO MNOGU VAZNO  TUKA SO TOJ EXPERIMENT NAVODNO STO GO IMAL PRAVENO """"""VAKA  IMATE   NESTO VAZNO 2 DA NAPRAVITE A TOA KAKO DA IZRABOTITE MAGNETNO POL MISLAM JAKO MAGNETNO PO SO MNOGU SLAB ELEKTRICEN IZVOR ILI PAK PERM .MAGNET   SEGA KE VI KAZAM VAZNA RABOTA  I ZAPAZETE
DA PRATPOSTAVIME  IMATE MAL IZVOR  NEZNACI DEKA MOZE DA BIDE OBICNO TRFO MOZE DA BIDE BILO KAKOV IZVOR PA  I PER.MAGNET
ZA DA ME SFATITE KE VI OBJASNAM SO TRAFO   AKO TOA TRA  DA RECEME  IMA MAX.. SNAGA OD 1 WATT TOA TRAFO VO CENTAROT NA JADROTO IMA SI NEKAKVO SLABO MAGNETNO POLE  ONKVO KAKVO STO MU TREBA ZA DA PROIZVEDE SNAGA OD 1 WATT AKO STE UCELE ILI PAK ZNAETE DEKA  AKO IMATE NEKOJ MAGNET I GI DVIZITE OKOLU ZICA KE DOBIETE STRUJA NEKAKVA EPA SEGA KAKO DA NAPRAVITE DA GO ZGOLEMITE MAGNETNOTO POLE ILI PAK DA DOBIETE POGOLEMO MAGNETNO POLE SO TOLKU MAL TR.. OD 1 WATT DA RECEME TOA TRFO OD 1 WATT IMA MAG POLE 0,0001 TESLA   A
DA RECEME VO SPOREDBA  1000WATNO TRAFO IMA 1 TESLA MAGNETNO POLE  .... KAKO E VOZMOZNO DA NAPRAVITE TOLKU GOLEMO MAGNETNO POLE KA ZA  1000WATT TRAFO  A KORISTITE 1 WATT TRAFO  ,,,PRVO STO KE RECETE TOA E NEVOZMOZNO I NEMA SANSI ZA DA SE NAPRAVI TOA   E PA DRUGARI TOA E VOZMOZNO
DO TIKA KE ZASTANAM ZA DA VIDAM STO KE KAZETE 
ZAKLUCOK 

VI POKAZV KAKO TREBA DA SE NAPRAVI PRAVILNO MAGNET ZA DA DOBIETE PRAVILNO DVIZENJE NA ELEKTRONI SO CRTEZOT VI KAZAVDEKA IMA POVISE MOZNOSTI ZA SE NAPRAVI DVIZENJE NA ELKTRONI I VI KAZAV ZA DEKA SE MNOGU BITNI KAKO SE NAPRAVENI NAMOTKITE  I DEKA NEMA NISTO DRUGO OSVEN DA NAPRAVITE MAG ,POLE 
I NAKRAJ  IMA EDNA FORMULA   TAA VAZNA 
\

E= B * Q * S    E -- ENERGYJA ,, B--  MAGNETNO POLE ---  Q-- GOLEMINA NA ELEKTRON
                       S---  BRZINA   
OVA MNOGU BITNA RABOTA I BITNA FORMULA   ILI ZGOLEMUVAS BRZINA SO NAMELENO MAGNETNO POLE  IL  ZGOLEMUVAS MAG. POLE   SO NAMALENA BRZINA  TOA E ISTO 
SEGA VE OSTAVAM DA KAZETE NESTO  A NAREDEN PAT KGA KE ME SFATITE  KE VI GO KAZAM I ONA NAJGLAVNOT << START SO MAGNET >> I ZGOLEMUVANJE NA ELKTR. MAGNETNO POLE SO MNOGU  MAL IZVOR  TOGAS KOGA KE GO ZGOLEMITE MAGN. POLE SO MAL IZVOR TOGAS LESNO KE  JA PRIMENITE OVAA FORMULA 
CEKA ODGOR I REPLY  POZDRAV OD MAKEDONIJA 

HEY  WATTSOUP  I ASK YOU HOW IS POSIBLE WHIT 1 KICK WHIT MAG  TO MAKE 8,7 HZ OR CICLUSE SEE YOUR PIC  HO IS THE UP OF  TPU RING ABOUVE  ??? ??? ??? :D :D :D :o :o :o ;
)       SECRET HA  HA  HA   FIND  AND  SEE IF YOU SEE GOOD  BY

Here is an interesting passage from one of Eric Dollard's books "Symbolic Representation of the Generalized (in time) Electric Wave" - page 52:

Quote"This multiplication , or modulation, of one wave by another wave of the same number of divisions produces what may be called "canonic electric waves", after the process in music where one melody is combined with itself delayed by a given number of divisions if the measure, producing harmony by interference with itself.  This process is the underlying principle behind the synchronous condenser, hysteresis motor, and parametric amplifier.  The means for producing this phenomenon is call "synchronous parameter variation", and is the principle behind what is often called "free energy", which is quite possible if not certain."

Doesn't this sound like a distant explanation of SM's harmonics?

@Grumpy

Very pertinent.

@Mac

If I knew the answer to the question, I would have posted it here already and not have asked or played a guessing game.

The object of this board is to bring minds together, observe, test, and put forth our ideas. It is not to tease the members. So if you want to teach us something, fine, please do.

As for your text in Macedonian, I have looked all over the internet to see if I could find an online translator to put this in English, but without any success. Mac, is there any other language you speak that may be available with online translators. Otherwise is there anyone here that can translate the above text. The only other way is to translate this manually word for word.

We'll see what we can do because I wold really like to know what you have written. But if you speak another language besides Macedonian, please advise.

@ALL

Well it seems like I will have to put up alot of photos to show you guys how this device is made, so you will believe it.

BEP started a new thread and says the material of the rings being non-conductive is hog-wash. You know, I did not say non-conductive, I said non-metalic simply because it is made of Plexiglass or call it what you wish.

The photo below shows it all at 38:40.

A. Is a view under the ring with the lamps lighting it from the top side. You can clearly see through the ring. The dark edge is expected and is not a wire. It's only the normal darkness of the ring edge. The light is shinning on SM's thumb that you can clearly see through the ring. Now when you advance the video frame by frame, you can see his thumb moving through the ring.

B. Is a curved shadow made by the light hitting the outer top right side of the ring and you can see this shadow on leg #2. Again you can see the dark outline caused by the ring edge. An opaque ring would have given a black shadow. A semi-transparent ring would give exactly what we see, a gradually lighter shadow.

But in all this, I did non say non-conductive. There could be an interaction between the fields with any static bouncing off the plexiglass ring. This would be considered a valid theory.

You know, I did not want to create any bad vibes with guys here.

Just ask yourself why so many have been working on this device for so long. Well the logical answer would be because we all saw the device working in a video. So........ what the f&?k did we really see. What is this device? This is the prime question to answer if one is to make any real progress in replication.

Geez..... we could go on playing the guessing game for a decade and we would never get close. So this is why I decided to ween the hell out of every f*&kin little pixel on these videos to get the most amount of solid, concrete information possible, figuring that every morcel of new concrete information would point us in the right direction much faster. It takes hours and hours to get just a pinch.

So I'm sorry if I may be brushing a few feathers the wrong way but I am sure in the long run, this exercise will be of great benefit.

And If anything is put forth that you feel is inaccurate, then show me please. I will be the first one to welcome such observations. Please do. All I want is to get the reality level of the device up to the OU level of the guys here. Cause you deserve it.

@MACEDONIA

Quote from: wattsup on October 13, 2007, 11:41:44 PM

The object of this board is to bring minds together, observe, test, and put forth our ideas. It is not to tease the members. So if you want to teach us something, fine, please do

EXACTLY!

MACEDONIA, I'm still waiting for your reply...is there any? or you want just play with us?

@Otto

Please Otto would you be so kind to translate for us what said by Macedonia?

@Whattsup

OPEN TPU. I do agree it seems that the rings are made of transparent matter! Thanks for your documented & continue efforts. I'd like to get more info about the coils that very probably are UNDER the 4 visible. Perhaps doing some pics enhancing could ber possible to identify at least the wires in - out ......

Roberto

hey 
watsupp    you ask nicikc name <<< inovation> or something like   this man whill help to translate my macedonian languege   this explane  for mac .. is very good explane i hope to translate and read some good explane how is made and how is to make  a made some good progress

no ronote  i no play game whit all 
listen i simple  if you translate this  you can read some good things and whill see that is not joke is real things  there you can see a formula  ho explane everthing  and you  can find the way to put this formula to make tpu  <<<< explane    you have two energy  first is  magnet fild  then second  is speed  if you any of this if you increase  if speed  or mag. filds  you can created power how you need >>>>
i say in my languege   this  you can find i way toincrase the mag . fild  whit so smlall energy  << i mean  elktri or  permanenet magnet ho whill need like a source energy only to start this   you dont need only elektric energy to start you make whit  only a small per. magnet  >> EXPLANE  AND LITLE HELP  TO ALL
WHAT WHILL HAPEND IF YOU PUT PERM. MAGNET TO MANY WIRES AND COIL  ONLY  A JUST A SECOND YOU CAN SEE A KICK 

AND THAT KICK IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE 10000 OR MAYBE  MAORE  HO WHILL DEPENDET OF YOU HOW IS MADE  CONTROL COILS

  1 -- IF YOU STRAT WHIT MAGNET  THAT IS SOURCE ENERGY HO IS INDEPENDET OF CONTROL COILS  2
2-- IF YOU PUT BATERY  WHIT START JUST A SECOND WHIT DC V  .. THEN THIS DC GOES TO CONTROL COILS    AND YOU IS IMPORTANT  HOW IS MADE CONTROL COIL  THAT COILS  IF YOU FIND EXSATLY WAY TO PRODUCED 10000 OR MORE KICK JUST  WHIT ONE KICK
A THAT FIRST KICK IS NOT HOW YOU WHILL BE MADE YOU HAVE TO WAY TO MAKE FIRST KICK <<< BATERY OR PER. MAGNET>> THIS IS NOT VERY IMPORTAN WAY YOU WHILL HOW TO MAKE A KICK  >>> BUT IS VERY IMPORTANT  CONTROL COIL  NOTHING ELSE
AND IN THE END  YOU CAN FIND HOW TO PUT COLECTOR COIL TO CATCH TE MAG .FILD HO WHILL GENERATED CONTROL COILS   
YOU SEE THIS PITURES I HAVE SEND ONLY THIS WAY TO MAY CONTACT MAGNET FILD WHIT ANTHER << I MEAN CONTROL WHIT  COLECTORS COILS  I SOON WHIL POST VIDEO TO SEE  AND  TONIGHT WHIL POS SIMPLE PDF  EXPLANE  BY

no ronote  i no play game whit all 
listen i simple  if you translate this  you can read some good things and whill see that is not joke is real things  there you can see a formula  ho explane everthing  and you  can find the way to put this formula to make tpu  <<<< explane    you have two energy  first is  magnet fild  then second  is speed  if you any of this if you increase  if speed  or mag. filds  you can created power how you need >>>>
i say in my languege   this  you can find i way toincrase the mag . fild  whit so smlall energy  << i mean  elktri or  permanenet magnet ho whill need like a source energy only to start this   you dont need only elektric energy to start you make whit  only a small per. magnet  >> EXPLANE  AND LITLE HELP  TO ALL
WHAT WHILL HAPEND IF YOU PUT PERM. MAGNET TO MANY WIRES AND COIL  ONLY  A JUST A SECOND YOU CAN SEE A KICK 

AND THAT KICK IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE 10000 OR MAYBE  MAORE  HO WHILL DEPENDET OF YOU HOW IS MADE  CONTROL COILS

  1 -- IF YOU STRAT WHIT MAGNET  THAT IS SOURCE ENERGY HO IS INDEPENDET OF CONTROL COILS  2
2-- IF YOU PUT BATERY  WHIT START JUST A SECOND WHIT DC V  .. THEN THIS DC GOES TO CONTROL COILS    AND YOU IS IMPORTANT  HOW IS MADE CONTROL COIL  THAT COILS  IF YOU FIND EXSATLY WAY TO PRODUCED 10000 OR MORE KICK JUST  WHIT ONE KICK
A THAT FIRST KICK IS NOT HOW YOU WHILL BE MADE YOU HAVE TO WAY TO MAKE FIRST KICK <<< BATERY OR PER. MAGNET>> THIS IS NOT VERY IMPORTAN WAY YOU WHILL HOW TO MAKE A KICK  >>> BUT IS VERY IMPORTANT  CONTROL COIL  NOTHING ELSE
AND IN THE END  YOU CAN FIND HOW TO PUT COLECTOR COIL TO CATCH TE MAG .FILD HO WHILL GENERATED CONTROL COILS   
YOU SEE THIS PITURES I HAVE SEND ONLY THIS WAY TO MAY CONTACT MAGNET FILD WHIT ANTHER << I MEAN CONTROL WHIT  COLECTORS COILS  I SOON WHIL POST VIDEO TO SEE  AND  TONIGHT WHIL POS SIMPLE PDF  EXPLANE  BY

@Roberto

Thanks you for your comments. I will look again at the coils.

@All

OK, I looked for some more goodies and found two.

1) There is in fact a coil#3 on leg #3 but it is not horizontal wound so the leg cannot go through the center. It is vertical wound and then taped to the leg #3. That is why when you see the image top view, there is nothing shiny showing like the magnet locations and the top of the metal box. That is also why this leg #3 has tape wrapped vertically. So he has coil #1 and #2 are horizontal wound and coil#3 that is vertical wound. Also Coil#2 has another device taped to the outer side as shown in the photos above. Keep this in mind.

Also, after more observation I would say the winds are as follows.

Coil #1 and #2 are 8 turns, two layers.
Coil #3 is 4 turns, four layers.
In all, I would say at this point each coil has 16 winds.
Also, it seems there is only one Litz going from the circuit to Coil #2, Coil#2 goes to Coil #3, then Coil#3 goes to Coil#1 and there is one wire going from Coil#1 to the circuit board. This means the coils are all in series, which would be logical if you were looking to build higher voltage.

2) This is a major freaker. When he is putting on the magnets, with his right hand, he puts the magnet on Coil#1 without any problem. He then transfers the second magnet form his left hand to his right hand and puts it on Coil#2, again without any problem. But for no apparent reason, he then approaches his left hand to the side of Coil#2 and you can clearly see his left hand index finger pushes on the device that is taped to the side of Coil#2. This is at 34:57. If you are not asked to notice this, you will not as it is done in the normal flow of movement. His heart must have been beating faster then ever as I am sure he did not want anyone to notice this. You have to see it to believe so by all means. Also to hear it because you can here a tic-tic sound as he pushed the switch. So all indications show that it is switch activated. It is also a funny coincide that this is the leg I had indicated may have some small batteries. Coincidence?

I will be revising the diagram to show these new observations.

More to come.....

@ Wattsup

I personally believe he used at least watch size batteries in the small units, to start them, up to two to three 9 volts in the larger units.  This does not bother me at all, but it would seem that there was great concern on the part of UEC, that it would bother the investors and they would not understand.

This is just my personal opinion based on my own observation.  Also, none of the engineer reports speak of the units being started with a magnet.  No need for those guys to think otherwise, they understood the significance of SM's achievment based on the Watts per hour output and that NO BATTERY of the weight of the units could output the shown wattage. 

You are doing good work!   ;D
Bruce

@Wattsup

I thought the openTPU had 4 coils spaced 90 degrees.  You only talk in your last post about 3 coils.

Earl

hi guys

the open tpu has 4 control coils but are they hookd up in pairs? hummmm......

and fire 2 at a time 180 deg kinda like my 15" ring it has 6 controls and they could be hooked up this same way 2 controls coils fireing  @ the same  time and rotating around 120 deg each time they fire



ist

ha the more i write the more i think lol!!

ok how bout this if we are hooking them up in pairs ....   we should have 1 side of the pair go through a phase invertor so we have a + coil and a - coil comming on at the same time within the pair of coils or if our wave was the right length then the coils could be all 1 wire in 4 segments and the sine wave will be the phase invertor no?   hummmm.....

Hi all,

@Whattsup
I think as well that the Litz does connect in series all the coils #1,#2 and #3,  it is to gain voltage..I'm not so sure about your coil structure extrapolation....it's really difficult!
I'm quite sure that there are batteries in the round can and SM did activate them..by pushing action......this is not to detract anything.
At this point perhaps you will be so kind to try to setup a dranwig: it could be a base for discussion  as it must be clear for all the references to 4 horizonthal coil for the rot mag field and the 3 vertical coils in the interconnecting bars (?).

@MACEDONIA CD
well I'm waiting for your detailed explanations/results as you have said. In the mean time I'll pulse my 500 turns test kick coil with or without a DC bias and I'll post the circuit setup and the scope waveforms obtained with a quick NEO movement  (I've a storage scope so I don't need to make a film).
I think I've understood what you are trying to say but...... all seems quite normal operation: still no explanations about kicks multiplication.....please don't tell me that is all up to the control coil!!! All the guys in this Thread, since a long time, are trying in every way to design  a proper coil....if you have found a concrete solution you are warmly invited to show it to us ...we will be happy!

Roberto

 HOW MANY TIME TO TEEL YOU FOR ALL IN THE FORUM NOW I MAKE SOME TPU JUST LIKE THIS I HAVE TOLD YOU   I MAKE SOME GOOD PROGRESS  NOW I NEED TO BAY SOME WIRES TO MAKE BIGER TPU   IM SO  AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO EXPLANE SOME SIMPLE THINGS HOW IS TO MAKE THIS 

AGAIN
1-- START WHIT SIMPLE AND SMALL PUSH ENERGY THEN YOU  PUT THE CONTROL COIL TO THIS SOURCE ONLY ONE KICK OF PUT DC VOLTAGE SMALL  OR PER.MAG  ,, YOU DONT NOW HOW WHIT PERM .MAGNET 

NOW I WHILL TELL YOU
LISTEN   MAKE MANY NUMBER OF TURNS  WHIT SIMPLE WIRE  WHIT SOME LITLE CORE INSAID THEN THIS WIRE  HAS 2 ENDS OF WIRE  IN THIS ENDS YOU CAN SEE IN THE OSCILOSCOPE  IF YOU BRING SIMPLE MAG.  THEN  IN THE MOMENT WHEN YOU PUT MAG.  YOU WHILL SEE IN THE SCOPE. DC VOLTAGE HO IS TAKE SHORT TIME  OK  THIS IS  HOW TO MAKE A SIMPLE SOURCE  DC VOLTAGE SMALL THATS IM ONLY NEED SMALL DC WHITT SHORT TIME 
AND THIS SHORT IMPUSE GO TO THE CONTROL  COIL  ::::??{{{  THIS COIL  MUST BE MAKE IN THAT WAY LIKE  S.M IS MAKE  THAT IS LIKE THIS
LITLE EXPLANE ....  HIS VIDEO WHIT 2 MAG. AND 2 BULB   THIS TPU  HAS 4 COILS  * 2 IN ONE ALL THIS 4 *2 COILS IS CONECTED  IN SERIAL  WHIT 2 ENDS 
THIS IS IMPORTANT 
WHEN IS PUT 1 KICK  THEN THIS COIL PRODUCED 8 KICK  << LIKE  EARTH MAGNET FILD HO IS 8,7 Hz>>  ONLY ONE KICK FOR TO MAKE 8 KICK PER SECOND  HOW IS POSIBLE 
IF YOU MAKE LARGE MAG . FILD YOU CAN HAVE MORE POWER IN THE OUT  WHIT THE SAME 8 HZ    IF YOU INCRESE MORE LET SAY 2 KICK IN  energy you can have 16 hz
but this is the periode when is put the surce is 8 cikluse  when you turn of the sorce you can have 16   wht frst on  then off input energy you can have 16 cikluse if you put just half  imen only on  then is 8 hz if you turn off you have anther 8 hz  and  you have sumary 16 hz whit only on and off  imean kick    . iIWHILL SEND  PDF  AND VIDEO SOON TO SEE MY FORK TPU   JUST  I HAVE TOLD SOME THINGS 

Hi Guys,

I performed a number of exiciting experiments and got a bunch of cores to vibrate and resonate.

I then tried to tap these vibrations with pickup coils and a magnet (like a guitar pickup coil scheme)

I failed !!!Ã,  Ã,  No signal.

The vibrations don't have enough amplitude to generate a signal above the noise floor of my scope.Ã,  :(

Does this mean I'm changing my view point?Ã,  Not at all.Ã, Ã, 

It is not coincidence that SM is operating the Open TPU at 6000 Hz, like we've seen.Ã,  It matches an acoustic standing wave. I was also watching the video again, and it's interesting, when SM mentions the "inherent vibration" of 6000 Hz, he circles with his finger around the TPU circumference, to show us its a ROTATION.

So, I'm thinking it's a bit too simplistic to just create vibrations with magnetostriction and then pick them up with a pickup coil and feed them back to the imput.Ã, Ã, 

I believe SM is also employing ROTATION.Ã,  It could be that he uses a 2-phase rotational scheme, but again at 6000 Hz for that added acoustic resonance and it's benefits of OU.

In any case, these are exiting times, we're zooming in on the solution rapidly.

EM

@EM

Reporting either way is a great thing. I appreciate your effort. I wasted a lot of time trying to get results from the tiny movements. I was convinced I did something wrong until I just read your post. Maybe I didn't. It was probably the way you say on my bench as well.

And a big 10/4 on the rest of your comments!

Hello all,

have you ever tried to use 12 - 13V AC instead DC from your power supply???

If you do so, then put a little magnet into your TPU.

Otto

PS: I dont speak Macedonian.

Hello all,

I forgot: hummmmmmmm!!!

Otto

Quote from: otto on October 15, 2007, 01:44:10 AM
Hello all,

I forgot: hummmmmmmm!!!

Otto

what's so special about that?
this is the same way a speaker produces it's sound.

Hello all,

yes, the speaker. But my frequencies are a lot higher. Im working with frequencies over 100kHz.

Forget my post.

Otto

I am in the process of preparing a new updated drawing showing three coils, 4 collectors, a switch, etc., etc., but I have a side question for you guys with the math skills.

Since we know this device works at 6000 hertz, and it is producing 90 volts DC, are there any calculations that can be made to figure the energy transfer per iteration, between the coils, given an input energy of let's say 1.5, 3, 4.5 or 6 volts DC.

Also if such a calculation is possible, would this give a better understanding of the coil winding requirements?

According to my observations, there are two coils placed horizontal with 8 turns and 2 layer so there are 16 turns, and the third coil is placed vertical with 4 turns on 4 layers for another 16 turns.

The collectors I have observed have 11 turns each. (Could be 12)

So this gives 48 turns of coil and 44 turns of collector.
If we took 12 turns for the collector this would be 48 turns of coil and 48 turns of collector. Is this a coincidence?

All the best.

Here's another question but regarding simple pulsing.

If you had a small battery connected to a silent type integrated relay, is there way to make the relay latch, but when it latches it cuts the current to the relay to unlatch, but when it unlatches, it re-connects the current to the relay to latch, etc., etc.

Do you think this could happen 6000 times per second?

i think you can do that but i dont think that is how the tpu operates  :) but if you do this you can harness the spike or the bemf with some diodes and a cap  with ground source for coil   as cap ground source as well   ;)

is

Quote from: wattsup on October 15, 2007, 11:04:54 AM

Do you think this could happen 6000 times per second?

Hi i think this could happen as fast as today's technology allows.
and i also think this is MUCH higher then the 6Khz you mention.
what did you have in mind?
M.

hi
ABOUT 6000Hz   IF YOU LOOK ANTHER WAY  FOR THIS 6000HZ  IMAGEN THAT LIKE YOU PUT ONE SINGLE DC IN ONE SEC.  AND YOU HAVE MOVMENT 6000 TIME LEFT  AND RIGHT MUVMENT OF ELK. MGNET FILD JUST ONE  HALF SEC
JUST ONE SEC ...THAT WHILL BE MORE THEN YOU PUT IN ENERGY IN ONE SECOND
THIS 6000 HZ  IS JUST MUVMENT OR I DONT HOW TO TEL L AND EXPLANE
JUST LIKE   
IF YOU HAVE 50Hz  IN THE IN  THEN IN THE OUT YOU HAVE THE SAME 50Hz   look
IF YOU HAVE 1 let say 1 hz <<KICK>> and WHIT THIS  YOU HAVE OUT OF 6000 MUVMENT  8) 8) 8) I
IF YOU LOOK THIS  IS PERFECKT IN AND OUT ENERGY 1 =1  THIS
A SAID  IF THE 1 KICK MAKE 1 KICK OUT  ENRGY IS 1=1 
WHEN  1 KICK IF YOU PRODUCED AND GIVE 6000 IN THIS MOMENT  AND EVERY KICK WHIILL BE LIKE IN ENRGY INOUT <<I MEAN EVERY OF THIS 6000 WHILL PRODUCED THE SAME SEPARATED KICK  1 AND AND3  .....6000 
IN 1=1 OUT KICK
IN 1=2 OUT KICK
IN 1=3 OUT KICK ....TO 6000 
YOU NOW IF YOU MAKE ONE COIL THEN ANTHER UP WHIT THIS AND ANTHER  AND ANTHE R THE MUVMEN THE SIMPLE MAG OR??? IS SEPARATED STORY
EVERY TURN I SEPARATED STORY OR INDEPENDET MAG OR ENERGY
IF YOU HAVE LIKE 
I LAYER OF COIL  THEN ANTHER AROND THIS AND AROND THAT  AND ,,, AND.. EVERY SINGLE IS INDEPENDET OR ANTHER  CONCLUTIONS OF THAT IS THIS 
1 KICK  PRODUCED 1 KICK  IN ONE LAYER OR COIL  THEN 1 KICK PRODUCED 1 KICK IN ANTHER LAYER OR COIL  ..
ALL OF THIS IN THE  SEPARATED TIME  I <<MEAN   1 SEC PRODUCED 6000
1 THEN 2 THEN 3 THEN 5 THEN 5  ALL SEPARATED  COIL INTHE SEPARATED TIME ONE ONE SECOND  IMAGEN  THAT
THE ENERGY IS THE SAME OF ALL SEPARATED COIL YOU HAV LIKE THIS
1 WATT IN  1 WATT OUT IN THE ONE COIL
1WATT IN 1 WATT IN THE ANTHER COIL

THE POINT OF THIS  IS HOW YOU WHILL MAKE  THE COIL JUST TO MAKE HAVE PROPERY MUVMENT  OF ALL COIL S IN THE  SEPARATED  TIME  JUST ONE SEC 
1/6000
IN THE END OF THIS EXPLANATIONS  YOU DONT NEED ELEKTRONIKS   .. ONLY BATERY OR PERM. MAG   ONE KIC K IS YOU ONLY YOU NEED TO MAKE JUST 6000 JUST THE SAME LIKE ONE KICK 
I THING YOU NOW WHAT IM SAY TO ALL THE ORDENERY TRAFO  PRODUCED  50 Hz in 50Hz OUT  WHIT THE SAME ENRGY IN THE SAME ENRGYNOUT  THIS 
IS NOT ONE Hz is just to INCREASE SEPARATED ENERGY IMAGEN THIS  IN THE  ALL THIS  6000 HZ  YOU HAVE SEPARATED ENRGY ALL  IS THE SAME 1TO 6000
YOU PUT ONLY ONE ENRGY ,,KICK .. THIS KICK MAKE DUPLICATE THE ENRGY AND ALL THIS 6000 IS SEPARATED ENERGY 
THAT IS ALL I        D O N T HOW E N Y M O R E   TO EXPLANE  I DONT KNOW ENGLYS  GOOD TO TELL TO ALL  IF   YOU CATCH THIS YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAID

@otto  WHAT YOU THING OF THIS  :o 1TO  6000 HA HA HA LITLE

LOOK VERY CARFULL  THIS   S.M <<<< TPU 700 WATT 6000 C >>> ONE KICK HOW MUCH WHILL BE ONLY ONE KICK HOW ENERGY  I SAID THIS  ANSVER 
            O N E KICK IS     0,1166666666666666667 WATT  INPUT ENERGY OR KICK
  YOU DONT NEED BATERY ONLY PER. MAG  COLL STUFF  HA HA HA

Macedonia Cd, you're killing me man!!Ã,   LOLÃ,  :)

you got the most bizzare, long, and hard to read postings, I've seen, you win!!

Just show us that video lighting a bulb.Ã,  ;)

EM

@MAC

You're too much. I think I will count to 6000 tonight while I think about your idea. lol

@marco

I made a relay pulser and it is buzzing like hell, but the voltage I am trying to send to the coil is not getting there. My meter says O volts dc when put on the coil.

Is it because I am pulsing too fast?

Here is a schematic I have drawn to show my connections.

Any comments.

Quote from: wattsup on October 15, 2007, 10:10:56 PM
@MAC

You're too much. I think I will count to 6000 tonight while I think about your idea. lol

@marco

I made a relay pulser and it is buzzing like hell, but the voltage I am trying to send to the coil is not getting there. My meter says O volts dc when put on the coil.

Is it because I am pulsing too fast?

Here is a schematic I have drawn to show my connections.

Any comments.

hi
Doing so mechanically has limitations, we do not want that.
Probably the "on" time of your switch is not long enough.
you could also try to wrap a little coil around a glass reed switch but personally i think this also has mechanical limitations.
Then we can think of a hall sensor and a coil plus transistor in a similair setup, there will be no moving parts so the frequency can be much higher.

Last but not least, you could try what i call a "optical tank", this technique is used in switching power supply's and cathode ray tube modulation.
The phototransistors i am using are capable of going up to 1 Mhz in the Ir light range.

Furthermore, the idea of using amplified light to perform ANY useful
purpose or provide any gain to.....

1x 7912
1x 7905
3x irf840
1x 74hc125n
3x pot's (use variable at first,fixed values later)
3x caps (use variable at first,fixed values later)
3x cny17-2

Marco.

Hello all,

@Macedonia CD

a picture is worth 1000 words. A drawing or maybe a video would be fine. Show us what youre talking about.

Otto

@Wattsup

If that is one of those little TTL relays there is a transition time between break and make on the C form contact. The normally open side may not be making at all.

You could try getting your output from the relay coil leads but you will have more on time than off time. Things could get hot. Put a small cap across the relay coil then a pot between the relay coil and the normally closed contact. Vary the pot to adjust the speed.

The relay won't last very long but probably longer than am SM video  :D
That little relay coil will put out some pretty fast flyback.

MAC has a good point.

If the collector is a "circular resonator" it will ring hundreds of times from one kick.

In SM TPU letters, he talks about many small kicks combining into big kicks.  He never says that the control coils are creating kicks - like with electromagnetic induction.  The collector is exposed to a "change" which results in a small surge of current manifesting in it.

You're standing on the plate of a huge capacitor - lightning strikes, secondary magnetic field - all electrostatic phenomenon...

...

hey guys what is our first fundamental componment !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

not our first freq

a magnet

the earths magnetic feild = a magnet

no?

ist

i look at a magnet as a way the earth or the universe stores its own power it is like a natural battery fully portable and safe to use hummmm.....

You might ask yourself what creates the earth's magnetic field.

A magnetic field is always secondary.

EDIT:
If you could not publicly use the term "electrostatic" do describe a device, perhaps do to legal reasons, you could allude to "electrostatic" by the use of several other related terms.  Take the term "kicks", for example.  "Kicks" can be produced by electromagnetic induction or electrostatic induction.

An interesting excerpt from Tesla's article "ON THE DISSIPATION OF THE ELECTRICAL ENERGY OF THE HERTZ RESONATOR":

QuoteWhen a glass plate is placed near a condenser the charge of which is alternated, the plate emits a sound. This sound is due to the rythmical impact of the air against the plate. I have also found that the ringing of a condenser, first noted by Sir William Thomson, is due to the presence of the air between or near the charged surfaces.

...and what about the noise that a TPU makes?

well, the electromagnetic field seems to be the result of lightning strokes.
the magnetic field itself seems to be the result of gigantic flows of currents in liquid iron and metals that are flowing inside the earth.
somebody told me this and i do not know if this is true, but to me it looked like a good possibillaty.

M.

The EM field is secondary.

It's master is the ES field.

Why does ball lightning move parallel to the earth surface?

What are the vectors in this image?

EDIT: lightning is a result of different potentials - very large potentials.  The earth and upper atmosphere are a giant capacitor.

it almost sounds like we want to use its self to induce a secondary of its self  use a magnet to produce a secondary electro magnetic feild witch we tap  but with out any physicial movement 

so what might be the freq for the earth electro magnetic feild ? it seams like we disturb the first and harness the diffrences on the second and use some of the diffrences to refire the first

crazy talk

is

@Grumpy

Funny you should say electrostatic. I was getting the feeling that the open TPU having plexiglass rings would have favored some electrostatic exchanges.

@Marco, BEP and also IST thanks for your comments.

Well, seeing as though I'm not worth two bits with the EE stuff, I decided to try this relay pulser which did work for a very good while but I finally blew two of the contacts. So I will try to get a few more maybe bigger capacity. I wanted to keep it in the 4.5 volts or less range to simulate 3 x 1.5 volts batteries, but I will do my further tests with maybe a 9 or 12 volt relay. I'll keep the pot thing in mind if I can understand it. lol

But I did notice that when I put a small coil the relay worked fine, but when I connected my 6" dia. x 4" high TPU mock-up of the 17er, having a center copper wire core and four vertical coils, set up like Ottos classic connection scheme (Hey it's a classic), the relay would not pulse. I think my relay was blew when I did this so maybe my TPU has too much power demand and is not leaving any power left to the relay.

I have realized by these small tests that whatever is used to drive the coils or collectors, given a finite energy source has to be well matched with the energy consumption for driving the coils. If the circuit takes too much, there will not be enough for the coils. If the coils demand too much, there will not be enough to the circuit. But I guess you guys know this already. Given this observation, having 3 coils with about 16 turns would be the maximum I would venture at such low votages.

I wanted to get away from looking at the video because I needed some time away to change my perspective. Looked only once at it last night and when SM pressed on that button I was laughing. Geez allllllllll this time went by and we only notice this now.

Tried finding Litz wire locally but all the places I usually go to "have never heard of Litz wire". Cannot believe it but it's true. So I will start buying some wire online and from a few companies. I will get some to also try as a Primary on my CBC. Hummmmmm.


By the way, look at this fat bugger.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Inductor-15-mH-Litz-Wire_W0QQitemZ300160555083QQihZ020QQcategoryZ7288QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Maybe not good for a TPU but at 7 lbs. it might be nice to have for future projects. lol

Anyways, while I get some Litz wire, I will make my own using 14-16 strands of some 29 AWG mag wire to approximate a 16 AWG wire. Just to do some small testing more along the TPU lines. What I want to indentify is the physical size of a magnetic field with a coil and two collectors as per the specs I gave earlier, based on varied voltage settings.

I would like to try pulsing the coils and measuring the collectors, but I will also try to pulse the collectors and measure the coils. This may be working backwards since you can have collectors with litz wire, taking half the strands to pulse one way and the other half of the strands to pulse the other way. This would produce to fields moving in opposite directions and by timing the pulses, they should meet at the vertical coil #3. Like when SM slaps his hands together.

I can't help but think when SM says "there is not much to this device", and when I look at the circuit inside the TPU, there is not much to it at all. There is basically 4-5 components. I'll post a blow up of as much as possible on the circuit soon.

In which video does SM slap his hands together?

Quote from: duff on October 12, 2007, 10:22:32 PM

Quote from: MACEDONIA  CD on October 12, 2007, 06:54:24 PM
HI
TOANDERSTEND MY ONLY YOU NEED SMALL PIECES OF WIRE ABOUT 5 cm THEN YOU MOVE PERM,MAG  HORISONTAL THHEN VERTICAL OR AROUND  YOU WHILL SEE THE DIFERENTS VOLTAGE  YOU MOST MOVE THE MAGNET WHIT THE SAME SPEED TO SEE THE DIFERENT BEATVEANE THIS 2 DIFERENTS MOVING OF MAGNET   8) 8) 8)

Ok - I tried your test.

I used a 6 pole magnetic motor.

All magnets poles the same - North Poles facing out.

Rotor turning at 200 rpms

Connected scope probe to one end of 20cm copper wire. Ground not connected.

Held wire in both vertical and horzontal position by passing magnets.

I did not see much difference.

Please make a video of your setup so we can see what you have done

Hi,

Simple test performed with the idea from MAEDONIA  CD.
A clamp A-V meter ( it may be a normal one also ). An Ethernet cable ( well ... this what was in front of me at the moment ) and a Super Strong NdFeB 7/8X1" Neodymium Magnets, N42
Moving ( well ... quite fast up and down ) the magnet a long the cable generates voltage in the range of 40-60mV moving it ACCROSS the cable ( for sensible reasons only around 180 degrees ) sparks voltage in the realm 160-190mV. Sometimes the meters goes to Voltage scale but only 0.0 is flashed on the LCD so I can not confirm higher spikes ( this is not to say they are not possible ).

Regards to all,

@all, gibber, gibber, gibber, froth from mouth etc....

SOR [Start of Rants]
Core Dump in Progress to tty1.

---

Rant 1 - Hardware is a distraction - What is the TPU's operating principle?

My gut tells me that SM's comments regarding the field rotating in different directions in different hemispheres, and the TPU not working upside down,  hold an important key which we are all missing!

I just know it, the key I think, lies in SM's more simple statements... about the TPU's interact with the environment, these must reveal the fundamental mechanism, since the energy comes from the environment... All the speculation regarding the exact hardware used is distracting from the discovery of the fundamental basics... So many clues... so little understanding by us all...

• where is the energy from?
• what type of energy is it?
• which of the physical reactions SM describes, vibration, heat etc is fundamental?
• which of the reactions is secondary?

The TPU is simple, the operating principle is likely very very simple... Once the theory is understood the hardware will virtually build itself, the hardware is not complicated...

Regarding the 'orientation' problem, it is clear that this problem is a key result of the fundamental operating principle of the TPU, it is clear SM changed the design of the TPU to detect its orientation and adjust the operation of the control circuit to compensate... but the 'problem' was still there, still a fundamental effect of the operating principle, SM just engineered a around it... it is this type of clue that will reveal the operating principle, environmental interaction, the exploding TV is another example...

So what fundamental operating principle, what energy, or field interaction, would be affected by the orientation of the device in relation to the earth?

---

Rant 2 - 'Rotating field? WTF!!!'

Maybe I am stupid but if I pulse a control coil wrapped around a TPU's main coil, the induced energy in the main coil must propagate outwards in both directions either side of the control coil.. symmetrical propogation... so it does not rotate... even if I then hit it with another blast from another control coil further around the coil... that will also propagate in both directions, particularly if it is at a different frequency.. remember SM's comment regarding Tesla and multiple flows in a single conductor...

Any rotation of any energy must therefore be purely a secondary effect, of some kind or interaction of the coil field with an external field, so why is it orientation sensitive (subtle link to Rant 1)... so you guys, why?

---

Rant 3 - Do TPU's still work?

Has it also occurred to anyone that the TPU's operating energy might disappear at cyclic intervals, how do we know that the TPU's in the videos are not being used a door stoppers because they no longer function? Some sources of environmental energy do this, for instance this is from the Borderland website:

UPDATE ON THE COIL / ORAC EFFECT -- 24 April l990

1. The COIL / ORAC EFFECT device was tried out in February 1989 and did indeed work, although the deflection was quite small. Several other variations of this device were tired, however none of them have indications of current which were any better than the original.

2. Around March of 1989, the Coil / ORAC effect began to diminish, and eventually "went dead". Different ORACs were tried, along with variations in wiring. Nothing seemed to make a difference. However, around November of 1989, I tried out the coil and galvanometer arrangement with a newly constructed 20 fold steel and fiber sheet box ORAC. The Effect was once again present, and back to levels of current readings corresponding to those observed originally. The Effect is currently active, and further experimental work with it is continuing as time permits.

---

EOR (End Of Rants)

Anyway some food for thought, I have my RGB rants off my chest now.... :P

Acerzw

We've been restling with these questions for a long time now.  ???

SM on "south of the equator":

QuoteYES NORBERT, WE DID TRY THEM SOUTH OF THE EQUATER, THEY WORK IN REVERSE. CAN SOMEONE
TELL ME WHY?

SM on Rotating field (notice he does not say a rotating "magnetic" field:

QuoteYES THERE IS A ROTATING FEILD WHICH CAUSES ELECTRONS TO FLOW IN COPPER WIRE AND BE USED TO
PROVIDE USEFULL WORK FORCE. THERE ARE MANY WIRES PERPINDICULAR TO THE MAIN COLLECTOR. THIS IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE DEVICE.

SINCERELY,

SM.

The rotation direction could be "influenced" by the earth's magnetic field.  This does not "imply" that the earth's amgnetic field is the source of energy.  In other words, TPU's still work on the equator.

i think the rotation ends up becomming our wave when the 3 freqs mix!! 

and when it comes around it is like a light house on the water and the wave that is the coard or the light and makes our control /collector ringg

the wave is verry cool looking i will see if i can shoot a vid of this wave later on tonight i used nch tone generator to produce this wave using 3 freqs

ist

@ acer

I think that trying to figure out "why" the TPU works is a fruitless venture.  SM said that they spent years figuring out that they could not figure out "why" it worked.

Now, obviously SM new "how" to make it work.  So working from this angle, and we attempt to figure out "why" it works, so that we can then figure out "how" to make it work, is an oxymoron.  ;)

Now, if I have not totally confused everyone, let me say this.  Tubes (amp) should be the thing to experiment with, because we know that it is one of the things of "how" to make it work.  Also, I am working on the Tesla Magnetometer angle that SM talked about, as to figuring out more of the "how".  If SM and company couldn't figure out the "why", and they knew the "how", there is no way we are going to either figure the "why", or figure the "how" from the "why".  :)  We can only figure out the "how", and that from both SM's specific instructions, and clues.

Cheers,
Bruce

Quote from: Grumpy on October 16, 2007, 03:32:09 PM
We've been restling with these questions for a long time now.  ???

SM on "south of the equator":

QuoteYES NORBERT, WE DID TRY THEM SOUTH OF THE EQUATER, THEY WORK IN REVERSE. CAN SOMEONE
TELL ME WHY?

SM on Rotating field (notice he does not say a rotating "magnetic" field:

QuoteYES THERE IS A ROTATING FEILD WHICH CAUSES ELECTRONS TO FLOW IN COPPER WIRE AND BE USED TO
PROVIDE USEFULL WORK FORCE. THERE ARE MANY WIRES PERPINDICULAR TO THE MAIN COLLECTOR. THIS IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE DEVICE.

SINCERELY,

SM.

The rotation direction could be "influenced" by the earth's magnetic field.  This does not "imply" that the earth's amgnetic field is the source of energy.  In other words, TPU's still work on the equator.

Hi
i was always thinking it starts with a rotating mag field, and then when the frequency's go up it goes into RF field rotation, which is transparent,the compass stops.
then it is not two wire induction but it will behave more like an antenna of a transmitter and the one on top of a car where the body is used as a ground connection.

basicly i was thinking this is what changes at a certain speed/frequency, and it also explains the interference around the device.

M.

"YES THERE IS A ROTATING FEILD WHICH CAUSES ELECTRONS TO FLOW IN COPPER WIRE AND BE USED TO
PROVIDE USEFULL WORK FORCE. THERE ARE MANY WIRES PERPINDICULAR TO THE MAIN COLLECTOR. THIS IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE DEVICE."

This tells me:
1. the rotation is part of the device
2. it is likely only one 'collector' is performing this key function he is speaking about in the above quote

What is doesn't tell me:
1. this rotating field is magnetic

As far as I have been able to ascertain, Stephan Marinov's MAGVID, a RMF device, went into a pulsar mode at a frequency of 30 MHZ (drive freq for coils - 90 degrees apart).  There is never a mention of lightning strikes or other electrical anomolies in relation to the MAGVID - only the light beam. 

This, coupled with other information about RMF's has led me to believe that the TPU is not a RMF device.

You have to create one hell of a difference in potential to call down lightning...

In the previous quote on perpendicular wires - this statement can be taken that the perp wires are necessary and not the rotating field.

perhaps the rotating feild is inductive

to the collector

hummmm...

is

kinda like the garden hose squeeze
might that be the cause of the heat
also where might eddy currents find there place here ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Like Jason stated in his treatise "Phase Relationships and Harmonics in the Steven Mark Toroidal Power Unit":

QuoteBy using sharp, high voltage impulses, it is possible to stimulate a coil into resonance using one-wire and virtually no power consumption.

An induction coil, will trigger a single coil of wire into oscillation with a sudden change of potential.

EDIT:

In other words, a convection current produces the same magnetic field as a conduction curent of the same magnitude.

"Convection curent" = electrostaticly induced current

"Conduction current" = Electromagnetically induced current

HI ANSFER 
YOU DONT NEED ELEKTRONICS FOR TPU TO MAKE KICK  8) 8) 8)

Here is what I need to find out:

If I can induce a current in a wire (collector) via an electro-static (dielectric) impulse, and then take this induced current and run it back into the control coils, will I gain anything?  Will I get an increase in the control coils, which then results in an increase in the collector?  What wuld stop it from running away?  Does it somehow reach a point of saturation?

What I'm getting at is, how is the TPU looped back to itself?  How is it able to run with gain?

Hard questions to answer.

HI SOME MIX MP3 WHIT WORDS OF S.M IN MUSIC

how is the tpu looped back into its self?!?!?!?!

through the 3rd freq and the center balum  8)


ist

feedback!!

Hello people,
Maybe it is nothing, and in that case please ignore this message.
In the beginning there was much talk about how could a coil wound around a wireloop (collectorcoil) create electricity?
It can't because of the 90 degrees angle.
Well how about a wire within it a coil wound with nickel-chrome wire?
Yes I am talking about the two (resistive) wires in the cable of a fl lamp which you use while working on your car in the dark places.
Nowadays it has a little print in them but in the end eighties and early nineties it had resistive wire and a starter and that was it. (the resistive wire was instead of a choke)
So it falls into place in the time frame SM was making the TPU.
Maybe he used resistive wire!
Because the resistive wire is in fact a coil in it self, when you make a coil of that wire you get a double wound coil and what happens with the fields to the collector coil?
I think also the valves (tubes) have double wound wires so maybe that is why SM talked about tubes.
Normal lightbulbs have a double wound glowwire anyway.
Just again, maybe this has nothing to do with the TPU and in that case ignore this post.
I wanted to say this because it might have something to do with the TPU.

(EDIT) It would explain why the TPU gets so hot anyway ::)

Quote from: MACEDONIA  CD on October 16, 2007, 07:27:56 PM
HI SOME MIX MP3 WHIT WORDS OF S.M IN MUSIC

HAHAH,

Awesome... Nice one :)

lol

Very good Mac!

& tink no good SM already stated simple copper wire no fancy stuff so thats out.

hello i noob but i have ask this

sm mail:
17 Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that.
If you could have a field that you could think of as a big ball.
And you could rotate it in two directions what would the ramifications
be?
and this
In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply,
except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with
each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do
mean all kinds.

two transformers and "rotate it in two directions"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer
?

is there a diffrence between the earth's magnetic feild and the earth's electromagnetic feild?

ist

or are they the same thing

@MAC

Very nice. Wire is very important indeed and now it's in rhythm. Thanks. Knowing how the device is made is very important to understand it. How will the coils expand their fields in the open tpu. Hopefully, soon we will have most all the building blocks to put TPU DUMPTY back together again.

@Grumpy (regarding SM clapping his hands together)

(IRS Version)
Didn't you see the video where SM is in this dark living room and a man with a black hat, trench coat and glasses comes up to him with a very large black suitcase that he sets on the dining table. He opens the suitcase and we see it is full of 1000 dollar bills. When SM sees all this money, he claps his hands together and shouts out, "Boys, it's time to party". Geez, I though everyone saw that one. lol

(Real version)
Actually, on the video that starts with them cutting a medium tpu, near the end with the narrator and that angelic music, when they show the large tpu and the guy talks about gyroscopic effect, SM goes up to the tpu, does a few motions with his hands and then claps them together to show impact. Around 50:28. You should look at this sequence carefully and try to understand the hand gestures relative to the tpu. That's what I would call a first hand clue.

@all

Looking at leg #2 again I can confirm that it is not a solid piece of wood. In fact it is an L shaped piece of wood trim that can hold at least 3-4 1.5 volts small batteries. The cover of this leg is a simple sheath that slides on the leg so you can have easy access for quick battery changes.

Looking at the open TPU, we now know there are only these major components.

2 horizontally placed coils #1 and #2.
1 vertically placed coil #3.
4 flat collectors #1 to #4.
2 Plexiglass rings.
1 circuit board.
1 output metal box. (Reminds me of and RF filter box.)
1 push button switch.
3-4 1.5 volts dc batteries.

How many ways can these be connected and what effect will such connections have on the fields generated or absorbed by these components?

There are not that many more variables to figure out.
One basic one will be the wire arrangement.

But you can also presume that there may ultimately be a change in component terminology. The collectors could instead be field generators. The coils could instead be field absorbers (inductors). The collectors could be dual field generators.

But whatever the theory behind this, the theory has to then work for all the other components.

I am almost ready to post my diagram and will work to put up some examples of how this device could be wired up and the effects these would have on the other components.

ok

@MAC

out with it

i know you are right  8)

why do we need amps? why do we need freq gennys?

i will answer that

FORCE FEEDING !!!

in the final tpu almost no electronics  the out put will have 0 electronics it is simply a feedback coil taping into the standing wave  ;D

or it could be refered to as  the final wrap around all others that will be the output

ist

i am speeking of the small toroides here like the gk4

@bolt

do all tpu except the first 2 the "open" tpu's have 2 collectors? if so.....     hummmm.... none of the tpu's have 3 collectors none of them!!!! yes they have 3 rings but only 2 collectors the center one must be our balum hummmmm....

hey anyone tryed a short pluse of sine?!?!?!?!?!?! @the 3 diffrent freqs? what i mean is first freq sets first componment into resonance then second does second then 3rd does 3rd  hummmmm...... and if resonance lasts much longer than the pluse ........   i love it !!!!!!!   then we take back from the ringggg and doit agin !!!!!

get it yet?!?!?!?!?!?!

oh yea i forgot to say that when our coil is right then we wont need the 3rd freq but only 2 freqs cuz the first 2 will make the 3rd and the coil will ringg on its own  from 2 freqs so i guess the 2 freqs are verry close to 1 another and are both trigured by the single magnet  ;D lets ask agin what are the 3 freqs of CONVERSION?!?!?!?!?!?!

1st ,2nd and 3rd  of 7.5 -8 hz  and any harmonic of that with that mix  like this ...... well gonna leave it there 4 now

hey can we all say "A" chord of shunmin freq?!?!?!?!?!?! done with a short pluse of perfect sine 

hummm.......

well im at it 1 more thing tune the coil to 7.5hz  so when we bring a magnet near it it resonates so maybe we want our controls tuned close to that freq aswell or 2econd harmonic of that and grumpy did you not post it ??  it is almost like we are under the first freq and over the second freq

so how does our 3rd freq get in to the mhz??? 

1 freq  = 1st harmonic of first freq
2 freq  = 2nd harmonic of 2nd freq
3 freq = 3rd harmonic  of 3rd freq

that should put  it into the mhz no??

so what are the freqs?!?!?!?!

7.8
14.xxx
and ??? it should the 3rd of shuniman

more crazy talk

If anyone here is good with the EE math more specifically with the coil winding calculations, please take a look at my earlier post and try to answer any of those questions, in any way possible along these lines.

This would save us alot of time in working out coil variables if some basic calculations could be made to relate to the windings.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3403.msg54602.html#msg54602

All we need, is to do one thing right in 1/6000 of a second, and repeat it 6000 times.

Quote from: innovation_station on October 17, 2007, 07:39:51 AM
is there a diffrence between the earth's magnetic feild and the earth's electromagnetic feild?

ist

or are they the same thing

offcource these are diffrent things.
the magnetic field is fairly straight foreward.
the natural electromagnetic field is generated by lightning and this is the one which is responsible for the Schumann Frequencys.
i was hoping everybody figured that out by this time.

M.

 :)

The magnetic field is like a still pool of water (actually more like a weightless ball of water).

Electromagnetic fields are actually the same ball or pool.

Except now that ball or pool has electric current flowing through it. We can't see the forrest for the trees... I mean we can't see the ball or pool for the ripples caused by the current flow. And when we look at it we see the peaks and valleys and don't think about the compression and decompression that made those peaks and valleys or the media they all ride in and on.

There is only one magnetic field. Every other dipole is no more than a lense.

Choose which description you wish to use in your travels. Finally it is always up to us - isn't it?

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:VeHrzRzlXT4J:home.gwi.net/~erichard/+earth+potential+frequency+schumann&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

(also see the link to the DOC file about halfway down the page about the earth as an energy source.)

By the way:
42.8 KHz / 6000 Hz = 7.13 Hz  (in reference to TPU freq of 6000 Hz and Schumann Resonance of around 7 to 8 Hz)

EDIT: PDF of refrenced DOC file for those without MS-Word

<removed>

 ;D

@ grumpy  verry nice page

someone gonna make the first bang ?!?!?!?!?!


isteam!!

Guys,

I have two more questions.  These regard the energy and heat aspects.

ONE
If the device produces 90 vdc, does that equal 90,000 mv DC. If it does, and the system works at 6000 herz, does this mean it is producing 15 mv per cycle OU.

So if the device consumed 1 volt per cycle and it produced 1.015 volts per cycle, it could produce 90 volts at 6000 herz.

I need to get this straight in my head cause then this would provide us with the range of energy required to be shuffled in this device based on howmuch we want to get back.

So does this mean that whatever the unit consumes per cycle, could be 1 to 6 volts let's say, if it produced 15 mv per cycle more, it would make the 90 vdc.

Can someone straight me out on this.

I mean there is enough on the table to start asking such questions.

TWO

Regarding the heat generated by the collectors, does heat denote resistance to a stronger current than the conductors can handle?

Or, does it mean the collectors receive energy pulses but cannot dissipate it fast enough so it heats up or there is no means to capture flyback.

i think you are making too many assumptions. The biggest assumption is the device spins at 6kz thus making 6000 times X. But we don't know how fast it spins all we know is there is about a 5 or 6k component with the DC. For example if your mains transformer gives 60 hertz hum then there is no reflection whatsoever as to the power or voltage output of your system. The frequency (within reason) has no bearing on the voltage only the ratio of turns and the loading which is effected by the resistance of the coils.  For example we don't know what the core voltage is before its stepped up. It might be only 0.5 volts but 150 amps or there is NO step up at all and the voltage appears across the winding as 800 volts.

As for the collector heat well the exact mechanism is going to be hard to understand without a working model but SM said that regular stranded copper wire works better then thick stuff. For example if it were that easy why not use half inch copper pipe for the collectors then pump water through it to keep it cool and use the hot water for showers and heating? This is because at high frequencies the electrons run over the surface of the wire and not through it so multi strand wire would work better but thinner wire of lots of strands has higher resistance so more likely to get hot.......catch 22. SM said if you want more power make more collectors in parallel or series for more volts.

hehehe Manix see what ya started dahhhh hily S......hahahaha  now over 30065000 post must be a record lol

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.

well guys it looks to me like we need to see a hetrodyne wave and we need to look inside of the wave to see what is in there  ;)

maybe you will find your kicks!!!

ist

in my expericience with this style of  wave is that if you increase the last freq the kicks as i call them become more and more and there tonnes of them inside a wave

take 3 freqs with nch tone generator  it does not matter the freqs say 93hz 94 hz and 245 hz  look at the wave then add some 00 at the end of the last freq  look at the wave agin

what is the diffrence?!?!?!

ok here is a hetrodyne wave done with 90 90.5 and 245

Quote from: acerzw on October 04, 2007, 04:02:09 PM
@EM & BEP

I recall one of bolts posts where he stated that SM had said a couple of posters were getting close before, I think since EM's breakthrough here it is probably worth you guys taking another look at those posters work, if you can find it, to see if further insights might be gained in the light of your new knowledge.

From bolts post with words that resonate highlighted  8):

"SM has very nearly spilled the beans on this risking his freedom and pay packet. He is right he has said far too much already. SM mentioned Bushwacker and Freedomfuel for getting close. Bushwacker dedicated most of his time working on the Hope device. IMO it will never work he is only making a cooker peizo coil but he was named because he was injecting AUDIO sine waves into his hope device. However the guy reads like a crank to me every post was about abductions and threats  from MIB  which i very much doubt they would be interested in his cooker coil. Freedomfuel was mentioned because of his excellent theory. He was bang on correct about how this works but for some reason i recon he saw the potential good and BAD and decided to walk away. But he deleted over 100 very critical posts and was leaps ahead of most other on here 12 months ago. For all i know he has a working model."

Link to bolts post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg49823.html#msg49823

Has anyone an archived copy of Freedomfuel's deleted posts? (Mine doesn't go back that far) If so please post as ZIP copy here for all.

Acerzw

maybe http://www.archive.org/index.php can help you

like this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,400.0.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20061030064540/http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,400.0.html

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Hello all,

@Acerzw

the last few weeks I worked with deflection coils from TVs. I posted this or maybe not. Such a deflection coil can easily be a kind of TPU. There are coils working with a frequency of 15675 HZ, 2 of them and the other 2 coils at a frequency of 50Hz (Europe). Now imagine, when 1 of the resistors or caps changes their values. The higher frequency could get muuuuch higher and you have the disaster. Not to forget that this deflection coils have also an vibration and the height of the outer coils is 44mm like in a TPU. With the mentioned frequencies you already have a little accelerator and when the frequency gets higher there is needed only a very short moment to have a run away situation.

Why are you all speaking about the frequency of 5 or 6kHz???

When you have good coils, then, when you pulse them at HIGH frequencies ( the higher the better) and when you hit the right frequency mix your TPU ( or power supply) will

1. start to pulse at a frequency of the earths magnetic field (seen on my power supply)
2. start to vibrate at 5 - 6kHz (didnt see this in the time of over a few months ago)
3. connect itself to the ionosfere like Freedomfuel said (saw it before my run away with a little magnet)

Everything I mentioned is happening automatically. So I dont see why to discuss soooo low frequencies of 5 or 6kHz.

Come on guys, I ordered tubes only to pulse my coils with frequencies of over 200kHz!!!! and now youre speaking of such 5 or 6kHz. Just forget this frequency. At the right frequency mix you will hear this 5 or 6kHz. Dont worry about this.

Otto

Otto

@all

Great points. I think we should disregard the reasons for where the ether is comming from and just concentrate on the pratical aspects. We could always work out these questions once our reading lamps are lit with an open TPU.

For the collectors, I think someone should draft an official description of what a collector is. How does a collector collect to become a collector? And maybe what is the main differences in construction of a coil and an inductor.

But, if you define a coil as an initiator of a field and a collector as an attractor of a field, then the coils and collectors on the open TPU could physically be either or.

Both components could produce electro-magnetic fields and both components could induct or react to electro-magnetic fields.

The only concrete physical clues we have on the coils and collectors is;
- coils #1 and #2 receive a magnet, and
- The collectors get hot enough for SM to do a three touch then pick up. He then says "these things do PUT OUT some heat".

Usually when you say Put Out, I remember my father would say this also for some components that are driven when a faulty component in a circuit caused other components to put out heat. These were all driven.

My gut tells me the collectors getting hot all shout out, "Hey, we're not collectors already!!!. We're the ones turning the fields both ways around the coils, that are not coils but inductors". Why would you put a magnet on a coil. I've done this millions of times like everyone else, does not do much. But put a magnet on an inductor and away you go.

I just can't comprehend how much magnetic field transfer there would have to be, to accomplish such a heating up of the collectors. It's just does not make sense. Does an antennea heat up when it catches radio waves. Then why would a collector. If a collector was collecting field action, logic has it that it will only collect what it can and leave the rest in space. It could not collect so much as too heat up.

So what I am thinking is the four collectors are not the collectors. They are used to procude the mag fields.

If you pulsed the collectors in two's but in alternating polarity, each set of two collectors would be like a turning ball. Each ball would turn around one of the coils #1 and #2. The third coil is vertically placed and could be used as a single control coil since it is facing both sets.

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Since there is discussion about frequencies here and this question is about my current TPU attempt maybe someone has an answer.

When figuring coils characteristics one of the first things I do is use it as an antenna and connect it to my scope. This just to see where it performs best with ambient noise and signals.
I've done the usual to isolate possible sources - killed the mains for my house - bench is in the basement - gone to battery for equipment power - disconnected grounds - so on.
I keep seeing a very short group of AC complex sine about every 150ms and regular. I'm talking about very small amplitude generally around 80mv at the mid high point. It ramps up and back down in equal time frames. The width of the signal envelope is about 10ms.

Does anyone have previous experience with something like this? The coils I'm using are the ones I posted a pic of earlier in this thread (the green ones). This signal is from one of those coils. This coil is not attached to any other device. The orientaion doesn't effect the signal seen.

Thanks

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BEP

Have you tried just shorting the scope ground to the probe to see if anything is there?

@ZPE

Yes. It flatlines when the probe is shorted to scope ground. I first suspected the signal was being generated by the scope. I have a very good handy-talkie with a general coverage receive in it. The range is 100kHz-1.3mHz. I cannot find the signal with the radio either with the normal rubber-duckie or a length of wire.

There is a second signal associated with the first. It appears as a very periodic pulse with long tapered oscillations attached. Amplitude ramps down slowly and drops to nothing suddenly after almost 500ms. The only way to see the shape of this one is to slow the trace horribly. I need a digital scope with storage to measure correctly. This signal appears about every 4-5 seconds.

I'm starting to think this is some kind of man-made time signal. I only see these signals with these coils as pick-ups. I don't even see them with my 80M dipole. Tonight I'll connect one of these coils to my radio and see if I can recognize the modulation type. If I can see it with the radio maybe I can localize.

hey guys what is rotatinal current??


hummmmm...

ist

.

Thanks for that info. It is a possibility but the soldering iron and every electrical device in my house was dead -- hmmm... there are some devices that are battery powered.... Co2 detector?

I'll find out tonight - most likely a ground loop or neighbor's toys  ;D

EDIT>>>>

Well, I found it. The source of the signals and likely the extra power I was seeing in my last looped experiment is my laptop!. Don't ask how. I don't know and I'll not take it apart to see why. I think I need to do another EMI survey since my last bench rearrangement.

Quote from: innovation_station on October 18, 2007, 02:33:16 PM
hey guys what is rotatinal current??


hummmmm...

ist

@Is

That's a pretty broad question. I suppose it could be like saying water flowing through a coiled hose.
Some say it may also include the water spinning while travelling through the same hose.

I believe an electric field rotates while travelling when surrounded by a magnetic field. I'm starting to believe the electric flow and spin can happen because of a surrounding magnetic field. I think the usual thought is the stronger the magnetic field the faster the field rotates.

Hope that helps some.

anyone care to talk about the first bolt coil i made?? the 4"  the collector is 13'1" it is 10 turns of 18 ga speaker wire around a 4" peice of pvc soooo......

that tells us the resonance of the collector is 7.5 hz or any harmonic of that freq also bolt said that 10 turns for all collectors as a basic but can be more so we know a 7.5 hz wave fits into 13'1" wire just right what do crystals resonate at?!?!?!?! that to me is the second harmonic componment of the earth  ;)

but who the hell knows

@ all do we really need 3 amps?? or can we do it with just 1?

ist

anyone know what happins when we pluse a coil that is in resonance?

anyone know what happins when we pluse 3 coils that are in resonance??

now can our first freq put all coils in resonance???

yes i think it can throught the harmonics of the 7.5 pluse so once all coils are in resonance what do we have to do??

DISTURB IT ?!?!?!?!?!

UNBALANCE THE EQUALLIBERAUM??

hummmm.....

so why would tesla say he wished he never invented ac current ??
well because he discovered rotational current it is a much higher efficiency  ;) and hell it works from the earth  ;D

i beleave it is rotational current in our collectors and we are collecting the secondary of this  if this is the case the collector is our primary and has low voltage high current  so our feedback wind should match our collector to a ratio depending on our output voltage we want to achive bolt has said that we get 1 v / wind on out put the 800v tpu has 800 feedback winds or output winds some of thease winds must power the coil the question is how much power is needed to self power  so what do our fets need to operate and our freq gennys? hummmm....  well lets see if there were 3 feedback winds on the final wrap each feed back could be used to power each freq or coil @ a certian time acording to where it is wound will reflect the time where the next coil will fire

always thinking  well most of the time :D

hello again

i was reading stuff about shadow mask

and i was thinking
maybe sm was using small Degaussing coil ?
http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/video-faq/50-Degaussing-demagnetizing-a-CRT.html
http://pigtrail.uark.edu/people/rcordell/Defense/minewar.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

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@Acerzw

Thanks for that interesting read.

@all

This link is one pargraph but the last sentence jumped out at me so I thought I would put it up for some discussions.

http://hendrix.uoregon.edu/~demo/Demo/E_and_M/Capacitance/index.html

Also, I am still in the process of finalizing my diagram of the open TPU. I wanted to take some more time to get the most out as possible.

Regarding the small metal box that has the two wires going out to the lamps. I think this is a simple EMI Filter where the output of the TPU goes to the plug side and the side that usually goes into a circuit is simply going to the lamps. Most EMI filters are cromed on the outlet side, but i did notice that those which also had a voltage selector switch had the output end totally made of black plastic, so it is easy to cut the sections apart to only use the EMI filter having a black output end.

I am still stuck on the actual wiring directions which is painstaking to see, draw rough, re-follow, etc. Hopefully this will all come together by Monday night.

All the best.

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<removed>

hello

i am working some theory about tpu

but i don't know if this is dead end

i was thinking if have metal rings and top of them you have Permanent magnet
and the copper wire goes trow the rings

then the wire goes electron tube

then the tube collect little kicks and makes one bigger kick

then the kick goes to Degaussing coil and makes demagnetic field onto rings "not  Permanent magnet"
when energy of degauss coil is gone then start all over again

is this possible?

@btenzer

It was good to read your post on the Bruce thread. Thanks for confirming Litz. I have some pretty crazy ideas about the large TPU and will put them up on the Control Inside thread when I'm finish the main parts of the open TPU.

@All

I will be producing the final drawing on the Open TPU in another few days. I have noticed a few other things that need some additional viewing and working out the logic.

In the interim, I am putting out a more concrete version of what is inside the leg #2 with batteries and showing the push button switch.

As shown in the photo below, the leg is a wooden piece of corner trim, and I can see the round batteries bulging out of the outer slip on cover. I figure there is enough room in the leg, from the bottom of the leg to even inside the coil for up to eight 1.5 volt batteries.

The main problem is how is the energy from the batteries being directed to the control circuit so the circuit can pulse or generate a frequncy (which I doubt) onto the coils or collectors and without cutting the current to the control circuit in the process. The only thing I can think of is that the battery power is charging a small capacitor, then cut off, and the capacitor is discharged into the coil/collector. The battery power is probably going to the circuit via a few strands of the Coil #2 Litz wire. There are so many things you can do with Litz.

Guys have been pushing straight power into the coils, but I think this has to be done via a capacitor since Tesla had shown that a capacitor discharge is much faster then a straight voltage pulse. Anyways we'll see soon enough.

I have also done some testing on winding 11 turns for the collectors with 16 AWG lamp wire and using 1 - 12 volts straight impulses to see if there is any mag field and there is none or very little activity. The multi-strand lamp wire is still only providing one conductor and the voltage required to make even a small effect is in the 24 volts or more range.

The fact that the collectors are heating up also tell me that they are not being used to attract a field, but to produce a field. So this to me confirms that lamp wire is not used in the collectors and that Litz wire would be the most logical choice as each individual strand becomes its own thin collector and woud be more reactive to smaller voltage pulses. I am still waiting to get some Litz wire to confirm this.

If there is anyone in the Montreal (north shore) area that has some EE experience with making control circuits and would like to partner with me in this endeavour, please contact me by PM. I'll build the TPU, you make the circuit. There are about 10 variations that would have to be tested.

All the best.

Those batteries could be small magnets.

@all

Sorry if this has already been discussed extensively but ....
Has anyone been able to produce/detect a KICK? This should be a fundamental base for all the research. Also, has anyone try to produce a REPETITIVE KICKS with a single frequency, let say N_1 ? And what about trying to combine N_1,N_2,...,N_k frequencies ?

SM has A LOT of references on these ideas ... and somehow I am surprised that this is not being discussed. I apologize if this seems to be very basic questions and/or have been already covered. I red through many posts and only on few of them had some reference to my questions.

The complexity/dynamic of the TPU is so high that we can hardly believe that we can recreate it by trying to copy it ... although knowing the model/design will help.

A good reference site for Tesla's work ( for those of you how do not know it ... )
http://www.tfcbooks.com
Some of the early posts @ http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/
in 1893-02-24.htm, Tesla talks about charging and discharging a capacitance with given rate and thus producing a push of current.
If would like take a look at "ON THE APPARATUS AND METHOD OF CONVERSION" in the noted file. It is AT LEAST an interesting info.


Best to all of you,

@ wattsup

Could you please provide the image w/o superimposition as well as a companion wide view image.

It could be mags, batts, or a collection of thinly wound coils in series (or parallel).

devilzangel
..

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@devilzangel

Don't forget that SM places his two magnets and then he pushes a push button located on the same Leg #2.

Whatever is inside the legs, you really have to see the video in slow motion to see the round bulges on the leg cover. This involves countless visual inspections, blow ups, photo inversion, and other brightness, contrast manipulations to see. Leg #2 is the only leg with a cover. Why? If there were coils inside the leg, why have a cover. Why not simply use tape like the others. A cover indicates that you need to have easy access to this part of the TPU without showing what is underneath. You do not cover things up that you want people to see. You only cover things you want to hide. Human nature 101.

I invite you to please investigate these questions and help out in getting any more pertinent observations as I am starting to get leary eyed. If you see anything that needs correcting, please advise, but please note that I will ask that such observations be well formulated. Saying there could be coils in there does not help. Why would such coils be required in a leg is the first question. We know why batteries would be required.

@acerzw

Even though there is no direct remarks on some of your posts as with many many others here including me, you should know that they are noticed. Keep on.

@acerzw

Thanks for the info. I can see the points you make.
Nice post for the working of the TPU. I am a newbie  ::)  ... so for now will learn-by-doing  and winding coils  :D
From my perspective the kick is the one I am looking to explore first.
I have some ideas to test, mostly based on what has already been done by other researchers.

About BEMF, there is a interesting research here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/bifvsbuk.htm

About Tesla's work ... words are powerless .... and may be beneficial for people to know about his ideas.

I am not much in writing so sorry for the short response, but EXPERIMENTING & BUILDING things ... well this is something different ...

Well here goes,
My last electronics build was a crystal set in 1959. I listened to the Rome Olympics in 1960 then added a variable condenser and got lots of stations. Blew my mind with 60s rock and roll from the good old USA. Now I want to progress to the next stage in my quest and build a TPU. Like GK I have high hopes. It will power my house and my kiln, anything less is not viable. Eventually it will power my city.
We might think of SM as a jerk for not handing over the whole deal but he has looked after his family successfully for  the last 15yrs on the base of his skill as a sound engineer inventor and then salesman.  He has given away far more than most of us in his situation would have done. I like all of you would love for him to surface and provide what he really knows because this amazing group of people would very quickly solve the problems inherent in this technology.It obviously has problems otherwise working lisenced versions would be widely available today.
A friend and I recently built Roy Meyers accumulator but we could not get it to work despite my addled mind and his 40yrs experience as an electronics engineer.So how do I know the TPU works? Because it has been done before and aspects of it are being reproduced.
Acerzw (Are you Joe Dirt?) Your analysis of late is brilliant. Never be discouraged. I doubt whether pyramids or religion or flying saucers hold the key but I guess everything can be thrown into the mix at this early stage. Do you feel the FLAME?
EM Devices.  Applause for establishing and faithfully posting negative results. It saves us all much wasted time. Thankyou.
So back to work.

Hi Acerzw,

Very good write up on stage one and two of the TPU. One thing I have a question is why the Control Coils have different number of windings and gauge of wire for the primary as compared to the secondary?

John

Robert (acer),

Nice to see you finally starting to see things the way they are....good post a couple pages back. Too bad not many others have also.

Only point I will correct you on however, is the use of BEMF spikes. Don't let anyone tell you strictly that there is ou in BEMF (inductive kickback is the correct term) spikes. It is not true, or at least not in the sense that just because the kickback can be used to increase voltage a substantial amount, there is ou invloved. In an ideal world, you would get back from kickback an amount equal to what you put in.

If it is true that there is ou the moment electron flow occurs in a wire (or coil perhaps), then it is also possible that ou exists in the kickback as well. But why do you mention kickback?

If you read one or two of the statements SM makes regarding the kick, you will notice that mention is never made of kickback, it is always initial electron flow. As I tend to be a purist, I would start there, not at the kickback.

Darren

Darren,

Just suppose Steven is right (afterall he did it) and there is a tiny amount of OU in the initial electron flow, and maybe there is also a tiny amount in the inductive kickback.

(and if it isn't in the inductive kickback, we can use this to generate another initial electron flow so again it will be there, as i hope you can follow this)

Suppose we are able to extract the both of them and we can recycle the energy resulting in a cop infinity system.

But we would be dealing with this tiny amount only so what do we do?
We make it happen many times to get to greater values....
Kick on Kick on Kick and release them all into a massive Inductive Kickback.

The Bemf like spikes are the ones we should see comming from a working TPU exept in the size and quantity as to give a greater voltage.

Storing the energy in a rotating magnetic field would result in a build up of energy and a runaway situation as the TPU does.

We only need to drive it up to the point where the gain overcomes the losses and the system will begin to feed itself, Catalyst.

Next step is to keep it there and not to go any further, Disaster.

Switching times are critical as all the energy between the initial electron flow and the inductive kickback are LOSSES.

the "on" time should therefore be as short as possible and so it does rely on how fast we switch on aswell as how fast we switch off the coils.

I personally believe there is no switching technique that comes close to the actual event of the inductive kickback itself, it manifests as the release of all the energy present in the field, at once, like an implosion.

Marco.

nice  ;D

just about there are we ?

well break time 4 me

i have some verry important work to do  and its not the tpu  ;D

i guess it is time to work out my ou generator cores  ;D

l8r all

william 

@ raymond

it almost seems like i know you for some reason

@ the rest of u

how many of you are in the originals?  i dont expecxt an answer but i can think of 3 or 4 that were
why do we make this last sooo long ?!?!?!?!

you all know this device will only work for a short time DO YOU NOT!!!  AS IN 2012 !?!?!?!?!

COME ON GUYS up it........ i said this b4 i will be releaseing my machine and its inner workings verry soon i really hoped the tpu would be finished b4 this time comes i have had all of my materials for my generator for just about 2 weeks but left it alone to work on the tpu but with the laque of help made this job difficult for some one like me with almost no electronics experience i tried my best that i could all along but with little secucess but it is ok cuz the next phase of people can continue on the progress


but what if there is a trick that allows ss to work easly i bet there is   ;) sm said it would be difficult not IMPOSIBLE  to get the ring to work on ss outside the ring  what if it really dosent matter?!?!?!?!?!

hummm....

ist

Marco,

EXACTLY!  ;)

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Robert.

Bedini's system utilizing LA batteries and inductive kickback may indeed set up a negative resistance effect which enables ou generation. Don't count him out.

However, aside from this application of inductive kickback, just harvesting it electronically, will not yield ou.

The Bedini "Scalar Beamer"  is indeed his Clarifier patent. I had built one a few years ago, but as of yet not done too much testing with it. I was mostly interested in the "biological effects" at the time ;)

Just wondering how in your opinion, scalars and pyramids are connected?

You are no doubt familiar with the famous photograph showing the DNA like emanation of "something" from the tip of a pyramid being excited by a Tesla coil inside?

Cheers

@z_p_e

How are you.

Listen, since you seem to be the current resident EE could you please look at this and let me know if this will work. Please don't laugh at my elementary method of explaining.

I have put a small diagram as simplistic as it may seem portrays the elementary way that I can describe what I am thinking in the EE sense. So please bare with me. The connections may be wrong I know, but it is only to get an idea across so hopefully it would have done just that.

In the diagram below, I have a transistor that is energized by a control coil, not by an outer voltage source. When the on/off button is put to on, the battery will energize field coil, that will energize control coil that will open the transistor connection to the field coil, as control coil loses its charge it will close the connection of the transistor to the field coil and this can go on and on. Is this viable. If it is, then I think from there I can make a TPU.

What I am trying to drive at is the open TPU control system has to be so simple that the operation count should be not more then 3 steps, and controlling all these steps should not require more than 6-8 components. If I am to refer to the open TPU circuit board and with what I have seen so far, there are two four-legged transistors (white) there is one variable capacitor, there are a few resistors or diodes or small capacitors and that's it. I am very skeptical to seeing anything that could potentially pulse a specific frequency. I think the resonance is achieved only by the variable capacitor that will adjust the pulsing speed off the control coils. There are no heat sinks.

This control circuit is so elementary that it could probably fit perfectly in most of Tesla's simpler patents.

I think the control is not achieved by the circuit, but by the natural charge discharge of the coils that play with each other around a few transistors. If possible could you  please correct the diagram so i can make a few builds for testing.

Keep well.

The TPU is a "conversion device".

Is this a reference to converting between two types of energy?  Two different aspects of the same thing?

Wattsup,

I'm a little confused by your drawing.

I would encourage you to use only graphics of SPST switches in place of transistors to help eliminate any confusion. Your ON/OFF switch could also be represented by this same graphic. Just use a dotted line to control the switch similar to how I showed in the attached drawing...(remember the Mike WM?)

I think I have an idea of what you are getting at, but I'd hate to give you some advice until I understand better what you are trying to depict exactly in your diagram.

Darren

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Quote from: Grumpy on October 25, 2007, 12:43:34 PM
The TPU is a "conversion device".

Is this a reference to converting between two types of energy?  Two different aspects of the same thing?

Grumpy

Do you remember the big guys took away the money, once they found out Tesla was into "Free energy" ?
They did so because they could not make any profit of it by sending out bills to the people.

If Steven had called it a "Free energy device" in stead of a "conversion device" what do you think would have happend?

Unfortunatly i think it still did not end up the way he would like it to be.....

Marco

Come on Marco.  I expect more from a person of your intelect.

Convert that which is static and unusable, to that which is changing and usable.

If there was a giant tuning fork in front of you, you would not be able to use its vibration unless you had another tuning fork of the same frequency.

Robert.

I'm not an expert in Bedini's motors, but I have played with and designed the circuits to drive them. Not tried the negative resistance battery charging methods though. There are many folks here at ou (and other places) much more qualified than myself to speak about the Bedini systems. I would encourage you to try one of the Bedini threads here, and specify which system you are referring to. Rick Friedrick is probably your man...google him. There are tons of pages on the SSG motors etc.

Here's a link to that photo I mentioned. Was taken by the Hardy's and ended up on the cover of someone's book.

http://keelynet.com/unclass/hardy1.htm

Cheers

Free Energy Device

Conversion Device

Indeed both would be correct.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only converted from one form to another.

No one said the conversion process has to be limited to COPs < 1, nor that only closed systems are involved.

If we can use a minute amount of energy to elicit in the conversion process an even greater amount of energy in return, then indeed to us it would seem like Free Energy.

Otherwise how could one thump a girder and bring down a bridge.

Call it what you want. All the kings men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

--giantkiller.

@ marco

i will help to do it the way sm would like it to be  so i see i need tubes and you waite and waite

but we are still too blinded

you all dont know how alone i feel at this game why?!?!?!

i know  why

i wish more people would come and build and post

did sm build this alone ?!?!?!?!            lol!!!   hell no

@ mannix    you gonna release the high quality footage soon??
@marco       you gonna fire up some heaters??
@gk             you gonna keep on ss??
@bolt           you gonna  expose the chord of freqs??   
@sauron       you gonna teach us more ?? about transformers??

so guys what is the plan anyways??

lets just get er done   

ist

@IS,

I blow shit up. I don't do small tests. I am sticking with SS. I am also applying the Keely & Jaro frequencies.
Marco, Hans, Bolt posted about the frequencies also. I have those docos and will apply them also to satisfy all curiosity.

I will get results before anybody else has gotten results, again and even bigger. So its taken a year.

I've had my rest and have gotten my personal life back in order. I am back in the cave and the bench is hot!
What made Keely and Tesla look esoteric to others only points out the most obscure truths about these Men's results. These are what has been hidden or not researched. We have all the facts we need to get dangerous. And that means results.

So, IS don't lose hope. To be an experimenter puts you in a whole different class than the rest. And that is a lonely place. Keep on truckin'. You're results are necessary. Your controller is only a step forward but in the right direction. If you need to test and experiment then do it. If it is overkill then you still got results. Don't gauge your progress by others needs.

At this time last year everybody and his brother was winding coil after coil after coil. Miles of piles! Why not the same this year? Hehehe... We crossed that boundary. I blew shit up. Then the physics of the energy fields by Mark Snoswell was posted. Then the Bedini shift to show magnetic field shearing and the RE field expression. Then the ECD hit and not too many derivations of that either. Why? Because it blows shit up! See the trend here?
Then the shift by Bolt to sine waves. What happend next? The Bose standing wave thumper video and the link to the Keely doco by Hans. The maturity of information has consistently progressed towards the correct results.

--giantkiller. There are always weeds along the garden path but even the roses have thorns.

@z_p_e

Is the following diagram more understandable.

@Guys

Talk about jolts and blowing things up, I will tell you what happened yesterday. I was with an inventor group testing a new motor/gen set-up with a brand new 3hp 240v DC drive motor running a 10kw generator. At one point we decided to put the field voltage to the drive on a huge sweep variac. The field variac was set at 0. When the 240 volts DC hit the stator windings without the field already excited, there was nowhere for this current to go. Big Mistake. It loaded the stator like a big capacitor. I saw a spark in the motor, then it was as though everything imploded around me, like a one second slow motion, I yelled out "WATCH OUT" and the guy that put the main 150 amp rated contact switch had just enough time to remove his hand and then the contact switch just blew up . BANG! What a bang. This heavy duty switch was in pieces and burned. I saw the beast and heard its howl. Go figure, it's almost Haloween. That KICK was one hell of a jolt. My ears were resonating for at least an hour.

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From the Morgan Jones book. It has already been posted here some time ago, but here it is again:

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Quote from: Grumpy on October 25, 2007, 04:27:26 PM
Come on Marco.  I expect more from a person of your intelect.

Convert that which is static and unusable, to that which is changing and usable.

If there was a giant tuning fork in front of you, you would not be able to use its vibration unless you had another tuning fork of the same frequency.

The guy was seeking funding to crack the code.
He was looking for investors, do you really think he would make a video and claim he had made a free energy device?

And even a normal transformer can be called a conversion device.
But really, what does it matter?

Marco

Quote from: innovation_station on October 25, 2007, 05:05:41 PM

@marco       you gonna fire up some heaters??

ist

Yes i am.

M.

Along with the stories, lore, legends of the arc...I saw a documentary on PBS that laid an outline of all of the old known churches and did an overlay with all of the known uranium deposits in that area. (Ancient Europe)  Guess what?  They were a perfect match.  So, for some reason, sacred ground was ground that had signs of radioactivity.  I found that interesting.

Bill

Check out this url http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/ecat2004.asp this is off of Stiffler's website which I am sure some of you have read.

Open frame TPU = ECAT??? frequency is pretty close. Magnets used to provide coupling? 9vdc battery and a oscillators are all that is required.

Hummmm....

CTGLabs was playing with this at one time as well. Look at the voltages and waveforms Dr Ron put up.

Could it be that SM just used/made a Torrid version?

Just food for thought and something to consider.

This is simple enough to try, I think I might give this a try with one of my old TPU's. I'll let you know what happens.

@all

A while ago somebody posted pictures of an old RCA TV, similar to one that SM talked about in his explosion story. It's very hard to find them now. May I ask to post them again or show me where they are please?

Mike

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Marko Rodin Chapter
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eQhN16Wmdsk

@ starcruiser

dont those transformers look formilliar?!?!?!?!?! 

@ c0mster

wow!!

got more hehehe!!

seams deep dude so where have you been ??

you gonna come back to work here  :)

even if you must play dumb  as many others do  ;)

all are welcome here  lets get er done public

tubes... tubes..... the master awaits :)

ist

so transformers hummm...

do we use them wrong??  well we must  ......   eh all?

when we look at a ring sauron poasted a long time ago  we see those transformer cores around a ring of heavy gage ground wire why?!?!?!

hummm...  90 deg!!!

out of phase physically  that tells me  the tpu is only a transformer  but a overunity one using resonance  to inter act with the earth

do you guys think we only make our collector vibrate and not the controls  then the turns of the controls really wouldnt matter that much more turns more output

there was a quote from sm that says somting to the effect     the freqs are dirrectly related to the diamater of the coil  the first freq for the 4 " tpu was 7.5 hz

ta-da !!   

i dont think the controls need to sing just the collector  ;) i think all freqs are only related to the collector as all we want to do is "collect" it is a reciever  like an hetrodyne am radio  or maybe a super hetrodyne

we want to rotate the earth's natural  electromagnetic power inside of our collector we will acheve this  with the hetrodyne wave from 3 freqs the woomp or thump that we hear in our speeakers  will be the exact "A" chord  of  intence magnetic power  and it will rotate around and around our collector  remember this power is verry low voltage and verry high amparage kinda like a spg or the n machine  or the homopolar generator  so our outter final wrap is 90 deg to the collector hummm lol!! so the collector is our primary  and we will take output  from the secondary just like any other transformer


da dut da dut da  ~~~~~~im lovin it~~~~~~

isteam!!   

Check out his site. Looks like they were just posted a few days ago.
You might have to skip some discussion but he does describe how to create the coil.
As always I?m busy in the lab building, testing, playing  ;)

can anyone tell me why this works??

well because 90 deg and oposing magnetic feilds inter acting with the earth hummmmm...

no?

ist

oh yes it does work btw

;D

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now

check this out

ok our controls are only controls used only to inject freqs  ok so if we look at the sauron posted schem the coils are bifullar this means 1 is control and 1 is feedback/secondary /output and the other is drive used to drive the next!!  after this is the final wrap over all others the true output  the one that taps the standing wave  the tpu is a magnet donut 

the bifullar controls are located on the open tpu's there 4 of them   the bifullar controls are exactly the same length and i think they cupple through inductance to eachother that means when we send signal into 1 wire of the control we get the exact same on the other  that goes to the next control's drive like the cannons  ;) so it almost makes it verry easy to close the loop with a diode for the input of the coil and hell why not a few caps too around the collector betewwn input from last pickup coil to input of the drive coil to give a bigger bang  we know we do not use them the caps on the output so they must be used on the input then  perhaps the caps are the cannon hummmm.....

ist

@all

Hello and hope eveyone is well.

I have finished my document on the Open TPU (OTPU) and have put it here for reference. It does not get into heavy discussions of operation. There is one simple theory at the end. The doc mainly describes the componets of the unit as they are and helps all to understand how it is made, not what it does per say.

So enjoy and if there are any flagrant corrections, please advise and I will make the change(s).

All the best.

@wattsup - very well thought out document thank you. at the end about the theroy, yes i agree about the windings in the 2" and 4" tpu's the windings are loose as SM did state in the vid , at this point I wondered too as if he wasn't sure if the windings needed to be tighter , due to them moveing (vibration). I do agree that tecnicaly it has been over done , but this because testing is inevadble in figuring out how it works, as SM stated he didn't know and he had built a lot of coils that didn't work or ran and stoped running for some unknowen reason. I really like your idea about the static field being unique to that piticular TPU , the propagation of the electron field is importaint for operation. as the the harmonics I would guess the the circut board is a tone generator being pulsed , the Question is what tone mmm possable ( A sharpe ).....

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@Acerzw

Thanks for your comments. There is an addition to this pdf that I am putting here. It is an extension to further push the question of collectors and the control coil.

I am going to get some Plexiglas or similiar material to do some rudimentry testing.

@ Wattsup- I did some testing on this a while back , playing with what Otto came up with. I had very good results but not substaining. I guess I mistook this as the magneto effect and dismissed it. seeing what you came up with brings on a new light to the appratus. the LED sequencer set up runs at 4khz to 5.7 depending on what seed you set it at , seeing this it just might work. I'll be putting the appratious back together and see what results i come up with - even if there small it's still results. Thank you for the new coil setup drawing , I'll go by this drawing. I keep looking at EM's cleaned up photos and the small coils just look so fimilar to me but can't remember where i saw them , it will come to me. even if the sluged coils with the ferrit removed this might work here ( air coil chokes are operated at a higher frequency that a ferrit core) . thanks again for the hard work Mike

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@acerzw

You should stick around. Maybe open a new thread for Rodin and invite him here to discuss. I am sure he will oblige if he realizes there is a captive audience.

If not, I wish you all the best with your discoveries.

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Looks like this applies:
http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/GrainySpace.html

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The language for describing the function of the toroid is now available. What a find.Rodin sees application in the field of supercomputers but it is clear that electricity generation vortex is possible theoretically and practically. The builders are doing the work and must continue but it can all be aided when there is a good theoretical base. Bring this man on board and anything is possible.

The INTENSE level of energy (lol) that this guy puts in, will be doubled on this forum! Lets just try not to create an atomic bomb! :D

Beside the spiritual stuff I found the math very interesting and verifiable. For a guy like me there were many possibilities opened and the explanation of turning on and off those segments really hit home. I am up to my neck with some promising experiments and hope to move on to this soon. I'll look for the Robin thread.

C

yes guys a great score  bring him over

but agin this is not a tpu   we currently are gonna crack it  RIGHT  the TPU

dont think the master has discarded us he is here lol!!

but perhaps he waits till we wise up

what do ya think?!?!?!?!?!


ist

hey ever wonder what the hell is a black hole sun?!?!?!?!?                  ~~~~~~~~~NIBARU~~~~~~~~~~~2012...-..-.____________.-.-.-.

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ok guys i say it agin i know sm is here  ;)

you all want to see what is in the finished tpu?!?!?!?!?!?!?


here ya go

i said this is it so did grumpy and others too  ;D

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1761.0;attach=4271;image

it is here right just like sm said right under our noses but we choose to ingnore it why????

ha!!

ist

i kind of think SM is REAL!!!!! good on the computer  ;) but we wont go there  lol!!!!

so i just went to rodins home page for the first time  right now

and just a quick question well

opening up the black hole SM

hummmmm

 

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my friend rodins coil is the tpu perfected ten years ahead of us  ;)



marko rodin hats off to you sir!!

look at the angle rodins coil winds to in the center  might it be 32 deg?!?!?!?

ist

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@cOmster Your experiments on Utubeh as camster6 are the clearest replication then provide the clearest limitations of the tpu of steven marks. I suspect he got as far as you did at the point he approached investors.
You have reappeared to introduce us to the Rodin and it is going to take the slower of us a little time to absorb this. So much new exciting thinking but it could lead to a very worthwhile outcome.
@HopeForHu  The best minds in the free world were brought together to develop the A bomb and under the extreme pressure of war were able to solve the problem quickly and thank God they did.All new technology has good and bad as we all know . We must  pursue the good and leave the evil to others. Good must prevail in the end
The quicker we can develop this new technology the better

3 6 9


the secreat to the universe .........


2 pos make a - and 2 - make a pos  ;D now just mirror it !!!! lol!!  2 wires 2 dirrections  2 polarities  ;D and they both = 9    9+ and 9-

3 and 6 are the same only dubbled  3 first freq 6 first freq dubbled  both - make pos 9  and the same in the other dirrection +3 and +6 =
-9

9 is our 3rd eye   the tip of the tri

you can not argue rodins work !!!!!

ist

can you??

chapter 25 harmonics  he just touches this  here  music  all of his work so far checks out   ;)

everything works out to 1 system  infinity

hey 1 more thing if rodin only came up with the math and made that jive and did not build the coil himself  then .....


does that not tell us somthing ?

i think it does

it is real and it works  rodin said he was not the ee that built the coil he shows in his video 


ist

Perhaps we shouldn't be looking at out TPU's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA

C

lol good video saw that already a wile ago  neat how it knows its being watched eh??

is

3, 6, 9 Hmmm...

I'll just throw that into my little TPU sim program.

(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn225%2Fabebarker%2FAnimation369.gif&hash=6942614e711e2651c936b8516a184ff2f6622f37)

Well, nothing too spectacular but interesting still.

lol!


yea somthing like that

hehehehe


ist

go watch rodins videos then apply what you learn to 3 6 9  i would think more music and harmonics  maybe odd harmonics

@cOmster,
Did you find when testing the TPU  that by adding a load (lightbulb) or measure (probe to ammeter) that it collapsed the field?
In the double slit experiment perhaps the way physicists look at the electron path effects the trajectory of the electron. Perhaps they need to look in a new way. As the vid points out the math suggests many more trajectories than just the wave pattern show.
So with the TPU maybe the people who are feeling the kicks are getting a better take on what is happening in the TPU field than those who are trying to measure. Is this what you mean by maybe we shoulnt be looking at the TPU? What do you think?

@4549raymond
Exacly my point. Perhaps first to understand where or what the energy SM shows in the TPU we may have to not watch what we expect to happen but test it with a different technique. An example: perhaps we should try to see if we can pick up the energy in another room with a different coil and not try to measure the TPU directly. In the quantum model everything is random and chaotic until it is watched or as in the video, we try to examine the point of the slits. It?s obvious the TPU does not conform to our standard physics or electronic models yet we are all using standard instruments to test it. My testing showed only the standard model of electronics and followed that but I was looking for that. Same as water never seems to boil when you watch it yet if you walk away it seems to boil faster.     

C

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Maybe that is why SM has a Tv in the room away from the TPU because he could look at the way the pattern was effected at a distance without effecting the operation of his device.

The "KICK"

http://tesladownunder.com/Pulse_Power.htm#Can%20crusher%204 ( Look for "Exploding wires  2006" )

Well ... this definitely is ONE huge kick but the underling principle should be the same, disregarding how BIG or small the kick is. Making this ( well not THIS but may be 10^6 smaller ) with a high frequency is the challenge  ... Buy the way the site shows one of the most amazing visuals I have seen ...

Best

Quote from: epwpixieq-1 on November 01, 2007, 11:51:53 AM
The "KICK"

The term "kick" can be taken different ways.  There is the familiar "inductive kick" and then there is Lodge's "Recoil Kick":

QuoteThe approach of Oliver Lodge (1851-1940), in attempting to verify Maxwell?s theory, was to generate waves along an open transmission line. The frequency would be known from the fundamental parameters (inductance and capacity) of the Leyden jar used for the generation of the high frequency oscillations, and the wavelength could be measuredfrom standing waves in the transmission line. In 1887-1888 Lodge worked on producing and identifying standing waves in wires. Lodge developed the famous ?recoil kick? experiment, which showed that a strong spark could be produced at the far end of a transmission line only when the line was resonant. In Lodge?s words [12] in 1888:

Quote?The best effect should be observed when each wire is half a wave-length, or some multiple of half a wave-length, long. The natural period of oscillation in the wires will then agree with the oscillation-period of the discharging circuit, and the two will vibrate in unison, like a string or column of air resounding to a reed.?

Lodge obtained resonance with wires 95 ft long, corresponding to a resonant frequency of about 5 MHz. In a later experiment, he was able to produce much shorter waves, but with enough voltage that the voltage maxima in the standing wave showed up as a visible glow or brush discharge. Lodge looked forward to presenting his results, which gave overwhelming support to Maxwell?s theory, at the September 1888 meeting in Bath of the British Association. However, he was scooped by the earlier publication in 1888 of the results of Heinrich Hertz.

So, according to Lodge, a recoil or "kick" occurs at the point of reflection of the wave.

In an attempt to apply this to the "collectors" or "control coils" of the TPU, you would have to tune the collector length and capacitance to resonate with the excitation impulse (via capacitor discharge) - requires two parallel "collectors" - one to each side of the capacitor so that they are extensions of the capacitor.  You can see that by tuning the control coils/capacitors you can achieve different harmonics in the control coils and that open control coils will produce standing waves.

See this book link and then search for "recoil kick" or go to page 100 of the book - an image is on page 112.
http://books.google.com/books?id=gbwKAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA100&dq=lodge+recoil+kick&as_brr=1&ei=-kUqR_-tLIH87gLQ853uCw&output=html

(Kinda ironic that this book is about "Lightning Conductors") -  ;D

PAge 26 of this book is also interesting:
http://books.google.com/books?id=P6gOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA26&dq=lodge+recoil+kick&as_brr=1&output=html

for those with a slow connection:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:x4KM9Pn0DlQJ:www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm+oliver+lodge+%22recoil+kick%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


As SM said "...knowledge of the coils and how they interact" (not a direct quote)

<removed>

I know that we don't know anything for sure.  This has been proven time and time again.  Maybe, one day, we will learn.

Bill

@Grumpy

Very useful links/books, and a lot ... a lot  to learn,  thanks !

Best

@Hi guys

Here's a question for the EEers from your resident nonEEer.

If I take an AC/DC transformer, let's say 110vac to 50vdc but instead of sending 110vac into the primary, I send 110vdc but I alternate the polarity so each back and forth alternation occurs at 60 times per second, would this work.

I guess what I am asking is does continuous switching the polarity of a DC current equal AC?

I  know this might sound real dumb, but for me it is important.

Imagine, I only recently understood that a DC to DC transformer (not converter) is impossible so this is opening a whole new world of potential for me.

I would spend hours winding coils on coils with pulses, etc. and all I would get is heat. I know now why the ECD coils never came to life. Geez.

Know you know why I think it might be good to have a thread called Learning EE basics. 

as long as the input is changing you will get an output at the secondary - well to a point anyway.

If you send a pulse in - you will get a pulse out

If you send a squarewave in - you will get a pulse out because the steady top of the pulse is not changing

Quote from: Grumpy on November 05, 2007, 07:23:25 PM
If you send a squarewave in - you will get a pulse out because the steady top of the pulse is not changing

::) Oh my...

@wattsup,

If you really don?t have enough experience with it, don?t use such high voltage. If you want to play with it, your safety is up to you.

Quote
I guess what I am asking is does continuous switching the polarity of a DC current equal AC?

In your case (only in your case) continuous switching the polarity of a DC is not the same as AC but would be close to it (I would say square root of two, ie, about 71% or 141%, depends from which side you are looking at it.). You might get a very high BEMF. Be careful. Switching your transformer in reverse and still using 110dc can burn it easily. Why don?t you try to use 5V for now and see what happens.

It is better to be on the safe side than to have the rest of the day with shaking hands, at best.

@Grumpy,

I guess you wanted to be more generic. In this case you are right. However, what you have said is not correct. Assuming all the conditions are ideal, no limit for power, frequency, core saturation, no coil impedance and so on and on and on? if I keep the input current (practically flat input voltage) rising in the linear mode I would get a perfect flat DC output.

Kames.

Quote from: kames on November 05, 2007, 10:22:50 PM
@Grumpy,

I guess you wanted to be more generic. In this case you are right. However, what you have said is not correct. Assuming all the conditions are ideal, no limit for power, frequency, core saturation, no coil impedance and so on and on and on? if I keep the input current (practically flat input voltage) rising in the linear mode I would get a perfect flat DC output.

Kames.

That is why I said "to a point".  Lay all that other stuff on him and he'll be snowed.  I know from his other posts that he is looking to get some pulses - so I directed my comment in that direction.

funny you all mention 5vdc plused

i did this some time ago  i plused it in to a coil with 90 deg winds to the core the bemf was huge  it peaked my meter  interacted with my speekers  and blew the fuse in my meter 5v in 1000 vdc  (on the meter) out  pulsed by hand  it read on the ac side as well peeked at 750v

the fuse was 750vac .8 amp

the base coil was square 

use  a cap and diode  to play around with  ;) 

ist

it may just shock you   lol!!

@IS

I get the same thing just pulsing a battery with a primary of an AC/AC transformer and measure right off the battery. If this could be rapidly pulsed, I'd be interested in the real results cause I saw voltages in the 750s also. But I was only pulsing by hand.
(As usual)

@All

Thanks for your helping me on this. z_p_e thanks for your reply. I may be EE dumb but I'm far from OU stupid. (Hey I should use this as my slogan. lol)

Whatever we are doing in OU, chances are we're moving AC or DC or DC to AC or AC to DC or AC to AC, so........... what the hell is happening to DC to DC. What a bummer.

You can use a rheostat in AC and burn it up in DC. Done that.
You can use batteries and create other demands to bring down the DC side-voltage but that only wastes juice. Done that. Bahhhh.
I'm just pissed off that DC to DC has to be so damn fuzzy. Is there a missing link like maybe BC for Best Current? lol

Don't mind me. I'm also pissed off that all magnetic field systems waste at least two fields. The mono magnet is not around yet to cap each end. Another little known missing link?

The other alternative is using these electronic DC to DC converters or PWMs that are actually acting like straight line fancy resistors and diodes that do not permit any flyback to return through it back to the source. I call them dead enders. You can push juice but don't expect anything back. Otherwise you have to be an EE brainiac like Honk and find the milli-seconds where you can transfer juice into tanks at the right time. Jack, you're a lucky man.

So in actuality, Tesla's knowledge of converting DC with rotor contacts, like Erfinders' circuit, is still the best way of creating DC movements via cap discharge while permitting flyback return and battery recharge. These guys are really on the ball for natures simplest way. When Leedskalnin said everything is made of tiny magnets, are they AC or DC? Just jok'in.

I guess SM must have been pissed off also, until he found a way of doing his conversions through the ether via magneto-acoustic-vibrations. Did I say that?

Just found this for the nonEEers (OK EEers also. lol) Totally great site.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

On a meditation page, http://www.jetcityorange.com/meditation/
I just read about a frequency used in China like Shumann to meditate-

the Chinese fundamental frequency at 344.12 Hz

Something to play with...

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 10:28:39 PM

... wether it is 7.3 ,5000,or 35,000 who knows?  ...

Gee Lindsay, you just gave away the magic formula! Let's see if anyone can make good use of it.

I wonder where the 1,2,3 frequency mix myth comes from.


Jacob

Quote from: jacob on November 07, 2007, 02:51:19 PM

Quote from: Mannix on October 05, 2007, 10:28:39 PM
... wether it is 7.3 ,5000,or 35,000 who knows?  ...

Gee Lindsay, you just gave away the magic formula! Let's see if anyone can make good use of it.
I wonder where the 1,2,3 frequency mix myth comes from.
Jacob

Jacob, want to talk about this?

QuoteFor a long time I have been puzzled by the following question from Steven:

Quote"Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that. If you could have a field that you could think of as a big ball. And you could rotate it in two directions what would the ramifications be?"

I couldn't tell what the ramification would be at all! Reason is that I was visually picturing the "two directions" as happening in 2 different cartesian planes.

Then, I realized the obvious: the rotation had to occur in the same plane. Now it all made sense...

So, if we rephrase Steven's question to this new context, it becomes:

Quote"Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that. If you could have a field that you could think of as a big ball. And you could rotate it clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time, what would the ramifications be?"

In this new context, we DO have implications, don't we? At least 3 anyway:

1) We now have 2 balls instead of one because we are rotating in opposite directions.

2) We also have 2 particles accelerators. Here is why: When, in electro-magnetism, we consider the movement of electric charges in a magnetic field, we usually consider charges moving perpendicularly to the B field. However, it is important to realize that the preferred path for electrons in a magnetic field is parallel to the flux lines. This has been observed in space where electrons near the earth are sucked in at on pole and released at the other one. So, since an electron in a magnetic field follows the flux lines while moving forward at a relatively low speed and since the collector in the fluxline of the "ball" we are rotating , there will always be some free electrons in the collector accelerated to the "ball" rotational speed.

3) Every half revolution or so, the 2 balls will come to a relative position where their ball shaped fields will be in complete opposition, and therefore cancel each other. When this occurs, something will happen. This something is what we are interested in...

Before going any further, I would like to point out that several posts make it abundantly clear that Steven doesn't know for sure where the energy produced by his device comes from. The official line is that it comes from the earth magnetic field, but modern physics shows this is not the case. Because of this, there are 2 models to explain what goes on inside TPU.

The SM model

Steven says that if we can cancel the magnetic flux, electron that are already spinning around in our particle accelerator will accelerate even more, and when the speed gets to a specific treshold, energy is released.

This model is interesting, but has 2 important drawbacks:

1) It is poorly documented. Where can we find information about this?

2) It doesn't explain the need for a special frequency mix. Just for a minimum value.

Because of these 2 drawbacks, I personally prefer the model that follows, which I call the Drake model:

The Drake model

This model is named after James F. Drake, professor of Physics at the University of Maryland http://www.glue.umd.edu/~drake/. Professor Drake is not aware of the existence of the Drake model in TPUology. Actually, professor Drake is probably anaware of TPUology itself.

Nonetheless... In one of his public presentation, professor Drake plainly states:

"A reversed magnetic field is a source of free energy".

Quite a statement! A free energy source? What do we need to tap this?

Very simple! First, we need to create a "reversed magnetic field", which in this context means two opposing magnetic fields. How many segments we use to achieve this can be discussed, but using bifilar coils in individual segments achieves that goal.

Then, we need the component that taps the energy. The fun part about this component is that a simple multi-strand wire does the job. Collector is a very appropriate name for it since it must also be perpendicular to the coils, in this infamous 90 degrees no-coupling position! Gee, the TPU already has the right configuration, aren't we lucky or what?

O.K. A little theory concerning the Drake model: When opposing flux meets, it creates a situation where at a very precise point, the resulting magnetic field cancel itself. What actually happens is a reorganisation of the flux lines. "When this happen", says Professor Drake, "an event similar to a sonic boom takes place". The picture below illustrates this magnetic explosion. The epicenter is the yellow area in the middle of the picture. What can be seen on either side of the explosion is a stream of electrons animated with an energy of hundreds of thousands of electron-volts.

This is known as magnetic reconnection, and can be described as the sudden reshaping of the magnetic field lines of the two opposing magnetic fields, linking them together so to speak. It liberates an enormous amount of energy in the dimensional plane of the collector coil. Understandingly, if you chain 3 such high energy releasing processes, you can end up with flame capable electrical power.

As it happens, this phenomena is extremely interesting. Wikipedia expands on it on these terms:

"The resistivity of the current layer allows magnetic flux from either side to diffuse through the current layer, cancelling out flux from the other side of the boundary. "

i.e.: the disappearance of the magnetic field is compensated with the apparition of an electrical current in the collector.

Wikipedia continues: "When this happens, the plasma is pulled out by magnetic tension along the direction of the magnetic field lines."

i.e.: if there are nails on the wall, they could be sucked in.

And again: "The resulting drop in pressure pulls more plasma and magnetic flux into the central region, yielding a self-sustaining process."
i.e.: We need a kill switch.

Now, back to the Drake model: There used to be a problem with magnetic reconnection: from a theorical standpoint it was happening too fast! But professor Drake noticed something really weird that seems to explain this discrepency: the presence of whisler waves. Professor Drake call this "Whistler Signature".

What's a whistler wave? Wikipedia answers it this way: "A Whistler is a very low frequency electromagnetic (radio) wave generated by lightning. Frequencies of whistlers are 1 to 30 kHz, with maximum usually at 3 to 5 kHz. Although they are electromagnetic waves, they occur at audio frequencies, and can be converted to audio using a suitable receiver. They are produced by lightning strikes (mostly intracloud and return-path) where the impulse travels away from the earth and returns to the earth traveling along magnetic field lines."

What professor Drake says is that the magnetic reconnection process is driven by very specific frequencies like the one we need to produce the "TPU effect". That these waves act as a catalist to produce magnetic explosions known as magnetic reconnection. Well, it certainly looks as if all the ingredients are there, doesn't it?

When we consider this model, understanding TPU windings and processes becomes much easier. We evidently have to rotate two magnetic fields in opposite directions. How this is achieved is a matter of strategy: one full lenght segment, 3 X 120 degrees segments, 4 X 90 degrees segments... Like Steven said: different configurations can yield results. But it would seem that using coils that go all the way around makes the process very tricky.

Mixing the frequencies can also be achieved in several ways. Personally, I would first try rotating each "ball" at a different speed. We could for instance have a clockwise rotation at 245 Khz, and a counter-clockwise rotation at 35 Khz, so that every time the flux cancels, the radial angle is different.

Also, if we feed the power generated by the magnetic explosions occurring in the first collector to the control windings of the second collector coil, we have a situation where the bullet fired by a cannon becomes another cannon. And so on...

The picture below shows the magnetic explosion resulting from the reconnection process, and the powerful electron beam that is emitted.

Jacob

Well Grumpy, unfortunately this text is not 100% accurate, but still it is pretty much self explanatory, don't you think? Which is fortunate, because as someone very knowledgeable said: it contains many of the secrets.