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@All,

Here are some photos of my Bob Boyce TPU windings.  I used the spec'd materials; 16 & 20 AWG Ag on  solid Cu PTFE.  My Teflon 16AWG OD is .0775" & 20AWG is .0535" OD insulation.  The 20AWG Mag Wire winds are 48t outside and inside, 30t bottom and top.  Teflon Secondary is 129 turns.  Prim's are 30 turns each.  Wires terminate at inside near bottom, with slack still for moving to top if needed.  The freq's of resonance do not all match where the segments between 4 and 8 O'Clock resonate about 100KHz higher than the others of about 780KHz each.  Seems to be related to position of Secondary ends that meet at 12 O'Clock.  It is what it is and it is wound.  Secondary spacers are .080" trimmer line.  Primary spacers are .065" trimmer line, for a full outside fill of the 6 segments.  If you use too much tape, you fit in less winds and these spacers won't give full fill outside, but will have less peaks and valleys to fight when spacing the very tight Prim's.  Fill in those spaces with wax, then tape perpendicular to valleys to minimize them.

(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CWardsMagWindgs_.jpg) 
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CWardsStartOfSecWindg_.jpg)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C30tPrimsX6_.jpg)

I will move my post of Dual124 Decoder GAL here next post, with some simulation shots and source code so others may burn their own.

Ward

@All,      Edit 22-Oct-07 Posted new source and Sim's showing two firing order options:  First is Firing Order 'A' one 12X clk left of 'B', or 'A' three 12X clk's right of 'B'.  Finished test vectors and tri-state function for all output pins.  This version ensures nothing is being driven when count = 0, the only inactive clk cycle, and one less inactive cycle.  I suppose only active low output option is missing now, for inverting drivers.  Some of you have asked how the counter equations work.  For starters, '*' is AND and '+' is OR.  '/' means low state  Each line describes when signal left of ':=' is true.  ':=' means 'act as Flip Flop', whereas '=' means 'without clock / asynchronous'.  If you look at the comments in the source (.pds) text file, you can see the binary counts by just reading the comments, turning the page right so LSB 's0' appears on right.

Edit:  Nov-14-2007 - New GAL, negative pulses, 3 or 6 Primes, and pulsed mode with 2 switches posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3506.msg59117.html#msg59117

Ward here.  The attached images are simulations of  EDIT Nov-28 .jed file .jdc file  for programming a GAL using AMD's PALasm program in WinXP.  Simulation works great.  I hope the test vectors agree.  I can slide the firing orders around with respect to each other using the 12X CLK source.  The pulse width is equal one 12X CLK period and can be set in these multiples.  There are two dead CLK cycles where no drive is happenning.  If I slide the 2nd firing order right one more 12X CLK, I can reduce it so there is only one CLK cycle where some Prime is not being driven during that CLK cycle.  I have also posted the source file so you can program your own.  Had to rename as .txt Vs .pds as is usual.  Comments should be good enough so you can change it if you want.  For example, I will use spare inputs to allow selecting the CLK offset between firing orders.

Although this seems like a 1 chip solution, you still need a buffer chip after this GAL for placing delays between for adjusting fine phase with either  RC, or LC delays.  Anyway, this is preferred to using a counter to address 12 EEPROM locations over and over containing same timing, delivered at same phase as the GAL.

Beware of PALasm posted on web that is copy protected.  It yields BIOS errors or inability to generate log files that took long to understand was bogus software.  PM me if you want copy of PALasm for yourself, or PALasm questions answered.  It is freeware.  It may be old, but it is very very handy.  GAL's can be linked into powerful combinations.  Do not under estimate there abilities.  You can buy a programmer for about $90 on ebay or build an LPT model for $35.  GAL's are reprogrammable and hold data for 20+ years.

Edit:  OK it appears cheaper still to build if you forget the fancy ZIF socket.  If you build, do buffer your LPT port or you will be risking that ports life.  This link shows how to build and links to free GAL Blast software.     http://www.geocities.com/mwinterhoff/program.htm 
I am checking to ensure this unit at ebay executes test vectors. 
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=gal+programmer&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=95033&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search
Test vectors are optional and are just  strings of ones and zeros, some inputs, some expected outputs, clk's etc... so the programmer can quickly test the device.  Especially handy if you ever suspect the device.  You can run tests out of circuit to try new designs before building the rest of the circuit.

Ward
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C124UpperA-1-.jpg)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C124LowerA-1-.jpg).
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C124UpperA+3-.jpg%5Bimg%5D)C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Pictures\WARDS_Oct21_2007\124LowerA+3-.jpg [/img]
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CGAL22V10Pinout.jpg)

Hi Ward,
   Excellent work :)

Hey -- I will probably be in your area for a press conference on Jan 24th (a the the San Jose Art Museum) . I'll make sure that I have time to visit this time :)

cheers

Mark.

Hi Ward,

Your work looks and sounds excellent!  :)

I look forward to hearing your results once you connect the coil to your controller. 

If you run into a challenge, be sure to ask Bob B. in the "no image" thread.

Thanks for starting your own thread and the build update!

Warm regards,
Bruce

@All,

I updated the code for different firing orders.  See Reply #1 for new files & Sim's.  .jed file there now so you do not need PALasm.  Just burn it.  Surplus GAL's cost about $3, $5 new.  If you need programmed, just ask.

Ward

@All,

I borrowed a 'Modular Circiuts' brand PLD Programmer and programmed 4 GAL's today.  EDIT 28-Nov Unfortunately, the old PLD Programmer did not support newer Test Vector syntax I forgot it is the .jdc file that contains the optional test vectors, so I could not get auto test done.  The .jed file only contains fuse map information.   
BTW - A PAL or GAL works by cross linking logic gates very which way.  You switch off connections you do not want to leave only the desired logic behind... with or without clocks.  You do this by defining when outputs are true using Boolean expressions (you do not need Boolean Algebra, it is built into sofwtware for you to minimize equations).   

Anyway... Then I turned down borrowing same person's 'Logic Port 32' USB Logic Analyzer.  I was a fool.  Installing these wires took longer than installing that software would have.   Fortunately, my DDS 20 does 0.3Hz min (stalls at .2Hz).  I was able to verify all works exactly as the simulations in reply #1 show. 

Edit - /oe is somehow active high as in just 'oe'.  Making it low engages high impedence.  Yes it is a flaw, but it is this way for a while.  The opposite polarity caused constant tri-state and I forgot to change the signal name to oe.  It s an asynchronous input at least.
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CGALtestGood_Contrast.jpg)
Go ahead and burn that 'JED' file posted there.  It is good to go! 

Next I will assemble 6 RC delay ckts between this GAL and a buffer / inverter chip.  I choose to just change the buffer to inverter as needed when I may run out of non-inverting drivers and need to use inverting.  Both chips socketed so no problem.  I could make equations to control this, but there is a limit to how many lines of equations per pin.  This is shown in comments below signal declarations section of source file, HEX421SH.TXT (normally .PDS, but can not post such extentions).  Then I will install current limiting resistors on my 110VAC Bridge Rectifier to limit it to 1mA max.  Then map out thermister characteristics to be sure it will resolve as needed (surplus unknown that works at about light bulb temps).

I see source JED downloaded only once.  If you want to use FF's AND, & OR gates, just follow the equations for the signals driving the 6 Prim's.  The logic is exactly the same.  You will see how many wires and chips this design saves.  Just ask..., else share what you think is better.  I really like Eldarian's Xylinx, but it just won't fit inside ring. 

Ward

(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CWards_Layout.JPG)

@All,

Here is rough layout.  Details details...  I'm using LM193 single-supply Op-Amp oscillator circuit from the data sheet.  Duty cycle and range is better than 555 timer.  I will use DIP switches to select range Cap, extra LM193's to process Thermistor, Voltage Sens, and Feedback for HVPS (orderd GammaH'V' SM-10).  I need to add more shutoff inputs to the GAL.  The Kill-switch will share Gnd with DC power into terminal on right.  An LM7805 will provide 5V power to the GAL and 74AC14.  Unfortunately, I have little free time this weekend.

Ward

@All,

I need more room for Varistors, resistors, and more Cap's.  Maybe I can attatch those to the back side.  Maybe I'd better etch a PCB.

Here are some tests I did with MIC4427 at 15V driven by DDS 20 buffering gates;  CD40106 Vs 74HCT14 both driven at 5V.  I wanted to test MIC and UCC switcing response to fast Vs slow edge speeds.  The drivers do not seem to care.   I keep on replaying SM clues over and over about solid state ringing, soldering > 1/2" above PCB material, etc.and over and slap myself and say 'look at PWM3... it uses IRF540's with 51 & 39nS edge speeds, driven by OCP=PCP116 Opto's with 100 to 500nS edge speeds, and it still worked...  Maybe not with effects, but it worked at least in pulse mode.'

I suspect I may really want a slower driver like the TC4421CAT after all.  That way the ringing will be tamer.

Now Earl, how do I make my layout better?  I may be able to get driver pins to bend over to touch terminat posts.

Ward
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5CWard1Stuft.JPG)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C74AC14to4427_100KHz.JPG)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C40106to4427_100KHz.JPG)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C74AC14to4427_780KHz.JPG)
(http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CAdministrator%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5CWARDS_Oct21_2007%5C40106to4427_780KHz.JPG)

@All,

I need advice about best choke found.  This photo is the best one I have found so far.  It is 0.6 H.  I will have to take my function generator to the surplus store if this is not low enough cutoff.  I stimulate one end of coil with 5V square wave and see what comes out other end.  This one lets only about .5V at 30KHz, just after resonance peak it drops off fast!.  Others were all > 100KHz or even higher.  I am new to chokes, but I see we want to pass as near to just DC as possible.  How low has anyone else found?  How you guys define "Cutoff" of the choke candidate?  I used point where I had only 10% of input amplitude, ignoring wave shape distortions.  Also attached is my xls showing firing order options inside GAL HEX421SH.PDS (txt).  I will make active low file soon so the hexFETs inverting will render correct pulse polarity for Non-Inverting drivers.

Other timing options require two GAL's; like 1/2/3X (requires 18X CLK source), 1/2/5X (30X CLK).  A five bit counter is needed Vs a 4 bit in this 1/2/4X GAL... no more outputs on a GAL22V10... the 10 is for # out's.  A 1/2/7X (42X CLK) timing GAL needs a 6 bit couter.  I plan on making GAL phase/pwm for defining start and stop postions like in ARM uCntrlrs, but at 200MHz for 5nS time increments... after all the other things I have to accomplish.  (no not DIP GAL's else too big PCB). 

Edit:  Well Eldarian's thread #57 Megger points out a better phase solution / pwm solution (2nd chip) in the DS1023-xxx programmable delay line.   Just that this needs a  bus to control it... I do dream big.

I have 1 gallon high-temp encapsulating epoxy I will use on next toroid so it will never buzz, much.  Shelf life remaining is about 11 months.  I am looking for suiable containers for sending small amounts to my lab partners in Texas.  Just need to arrange hazardous shipping.

So quiet.  It is OK to comment.  Please do.  Save me from mistakes.  Share ideas.  Please.  I am going to start messing with my ARM7024 for < 20KHz OK resolution to drive this thing that way too.

Ward
(//)

Hi Ward,

I assume this choke is to keep the radiant energy from shorting to ground via the HV supply.
Two comments:

1- you can always use a resistor is series with the choke.
2- I believe you could also use only a resistor to achieve the same isolation.  A 22 Megohm resistor should provide enough isolation.
My suggestion would be to use only several [chip ?] resistors in series.  The reasons being that if one should short or get too dusty or dirty or humid, you would still have electrocution protection in case of something stupid happening.  The current should be essentially zero, so resistance does not matter.  I would use a couple of 1M or 10M SMD chips in series.  The distance between total resistance ends should be sufficient to satisfy safety concerns of eventual arc-over.  An additional plus is that if the resistance drops any voltage, then you know you have a current leakage somewhere.  A series connection of resistors also drops any residual capacitance across the R, 3 Rs in series has 1/3 the capacity of just one resistor.

the choke shown is real nice, but very big.  A couple of series SMD resistors has much less volume and will fit into the center of the toroid.
Do not forget that such big chokes while effective at lower frequencies might present a short-circuit at higher frequencies due to inter-turn capacity.  There is no such thing as one choke being effective over a broad range of frequencies.

My gut feeling is that series resistors are preferable over an inductance for the following reasons:
1- current limiting against electrocution hazard
2- wider frequency range
3- much smaller volume

One time I had a 220V to 24 VDC switching power supply that had arcing problems because of too close spacing, especially in boat motor rooms (salt vapor in the air).  I coated the corresponding area with 5 min epoxy 2-component glue and that solved the problem.

Regards, Earl

Earl,
Thanks for the advice.  Im trying to understand how just resistance would work... like air gap? 

EDIT Nov 5th:  OK it is about balancing impedences so that the energy yield flows only through the load.  Eldarion's Simulations in his thread Nov 4th, with high Vs low load impedence says a thousand words.  It reminds me of how the Dirac Delta Function High-pass extra load trimmer-pot' tuned the ring out after the impulse that was created from the square wave... via impedence matching in that case.  In this case it seems we desire the correct impedence mismatching to encourage directioanal flow of energy.  I will try it before trying a large battery charger secondary as Bob does.  

BTW - I am amazed at your post proving just a resistor between Q and Preset on an ACT' FFactually induces delay.  Your Scope and probes are superior to mine I found when comparing that pulser with ACT Vs HCT... my 100MHz Tek' 465B with 100MHz Tek P6109B probe made it look like only HCT could reach Vcc, nor could I detect any delay. 

Edit: Now that Eldarion has discovered pulse-train interference problems, I am beathing easier because there is an explanation.  (I have always found the most difficult problems occur when something believed to be true is not really true.) While Eldarion was wrestling with that, I went tangent about the ringing and 'perfect edge speed'.   I have heard ringing is our friend... with this HV potential 'biasing it all positive'.   Then again SM says not and Tao's TPU End Game[2] shows a big 'no symbol' through the ringing after the overshoot.  SM's, BB's.  I can see driving open-ended does not see any DC offset from square wave per no Gnd reference, and my scope shows AC voltage with respect to Gnd... and DVM can measure Amps only in AC, none in DC.  (BTW -  I was trying that while driving just one Primary).  I hear Eldarian warning us not to Scope Secondary while driving.  Anyway, Bob never said SM's rules did not apply to his toroid design... more like the opposite with all the similarities.  So maybe ringing is really bad in this app' too.  IGBT's are so fast they must ring though.

If ringing is bad AND we need very fast edge speeds, then the answer is in 'Delta Functions' type 'high-pass' as Grumpy has posted about.  When I tested it, I included a pot to Gnd from the stimulated end of the coil I was driving.   The cleanliness and purity of the pulse surprised me.  Perfect!  FF pulser, square wave input, no difference.  Pure, without ringing, but only 3V out after 5V in.   I have not replicated Jason's XFRMR method of boosting pulse amplitude.  That might affect the Delta magic of yielding all harmonics at nearly same amplitude as fundamental... as a true impulse approaching infinity is supposed to.  With pulses so pure, maybe 3V is enough.  With 15V drivers, I expect 9V pulses out.  I still have not connected my HP Spectrum Analyzer to check the harmonic population or amlitudes because I was believing ringing in this application was AOK. 

Lastly, I really worry about hand wired PCB and will order a vendor PCB after concept proven.  I will finish this version and make another with the high-pass filters and diodes for pure frequency pulses.  I am certain these are needed for the other TPU applications at least.     
Ward (http://)

I have seen Copper pad developer board work and do not like it as it is hard to change.  You can wire wrap around Resistor or Cap leads.  When finished fiddling with design, solder every post and lead cut off close to Vector Board.  Practice soldering wire wraps elsewhere, not on your fully wrapped card.  30AWG insulation melts like butter!  Get the cheaper WW tool with stripped inside.  This one costs too much at $25 and the stripper scratches the wire.  Use a good wire stripper. 

These 'BI' brand 1K Trimmers shafts are so stiff I warn you now... if you follow this lead, find another brand!  Trimmers should turn easily or you will hate it quick.  Desperate as I am, I am going with these.  Cermet does not make 1K pots.  I can break off the JB Weld later if needed.  I plan on soldering wraps and cutting the posts down eventually, but not before I get better 1K Trimmer pot's. 

With RC phase delay, lowering the frequency makes the delay longer.  There is no way to sweep frequency while maintaining phase delays as well as timers, counters, or gate delays can provide.  I would use the DS1023, but I want to keep this model basic.   Once I know if best phase is same for all frequencies, (I hope), I will build it in with gate delays, looped internally inside GAL's to keep the wires down.

Ward(//)

Hi Ward,

Would you mind posting a schematic of your high-pass "delta function" filter?  I had not thought of doing anything like that, and it is quite intriguing.  Might help my new controller quite a bit!  ;D

Thanks,

Eldarion

Quote from: eldarion on October 31, 2007, 09:56:29 AM
Hi Ward,

Would you mind posting a schematic of your high-pass "delta function" filter?  I had not thought of doing anything like that, and it is quite intriguing.  Might help my new controller quite a bit!  ;D

Thanks,

Eldarion

Sure.  It is called DeltaFunctions.doc.  Do not miss anything else posted here.  It is all very relevent to what we want to accomplish..  For 2nd approximation, try the 'Pole-Zero Cancelation" also posted here.  EDIT:  This uses a resistor in parallel with the CR  follwed by an RC to more perfectly shape the back side / falling edge of the pulse. 
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1825.msg32161.html#msg32161

Go straight to Pg 18, then 16.  Then LOOK at pictures of spectrum analyzer showing square wave harmonics Vs 'Delta Function' and tell me this is not important.  It is excellent background on harmonic components of sine, square, and triangle waves that should be fully read and understood after you get to Pg 18 meat of matter.  1N5711 is the equivlent diode. 

Ward

Quote from: HumblePie on October 31, 2007, 12:17:54 PM
Do not miss anything else posted here.  It is all very relevent to what we want to accomplish..

I'll try not to! :)  I've had my nose buried in the test bench for a while, and therefore have not poked around the forum as much as I would like.

Thanks!

Eldarion

Well I was away for a few days, so I'm still at it.  I need a nice magnifying lamp I do not have.

The two switches left after 3 Freq' range Cap's for oscillator will select four states I have not decided on.  I'm thinking:
3 Primes / 6 Primes fire shift option 1 / 6 Primes fire shift option 2 / Pulse all 6 same.  I'll add equations to do this.  Also I will fix OE polarity flaw because I do not like that it can float high and enable out's.  Jumper block will allow substituting an external CLK source like DDS 20.  External kill switch will tie to /oe.   I have decided to put Voltage Sens' feedback, HV control voltage, and temperature shutdowns on a different card.

Ward
(//)

I have to say, ward, excellent documentation. And nice work too. You are making excellent progress.

Hi Ward,
   Wow -- exelent job. I havn't been keeping up with this -- sorry I missed so much activity now.

cheers

mark.

@All,

Thank you all for your encouragement.  I have aquired the SMD Resistors for isolation and Ceramic Capacitors to try instead of discretes I also have, however, I am ill equip'd to attempt soldering these.  I will use discretes for isolation and chip decoupling; next to other chips and right on top of Drivers as they are critical.  I should have maybe put Driver on other small card so clock-gen' would be usable with open or closed-ended Primary drive cards with PWM there too.

I see possible problem where tri-state works with Schmit Triggers, but regular TTL inverters floats high... preventiing regular '04 inverter being substituted for the 74ACT14's.  Tri-state would turn on Drivers in that config'.  So, I will wire Kill Switch to CLR already there to hold all Prim' CLK's low to accomidate this '04 option. 

I wired this card so each Channel goes through two gates on each chip.  Just because wires were more segregated this way.  If I had wired to use one from each inverter, a DIP component carrier could be jumpered and substituted for the first inverter if Inverting Driver's were desired... then no GAL change would be needed to drive them with same 'fixed' pulse width.  I do not see any way to make a single GAL define both polarity pulses.

Ward

@All,
New GAL's posted here.  OE signal is fixed so Low allows outputs and High engages high-impedence out's.  The Hex421x4 file is positive pulse (could'a called it 'p4, but sounded like 4 Prim's that way), Hex421n4 is negative pulse.  Each is now 4 state control for the two extra switches not used for freq range Cap.  You can also just jumper out one inverting Schmit chips as alternative to negative pulse GAL if you wire with this in mind.

00  - 6 Prim's, offset firing orbers 'A' advance wrt 'B' one 12X CLK.
01  - 6 Prim's, offset firing orbers 'A' delayed wrt 'B' two 12X CLK's.
10  - Pulse all 6 same at 2X CLK
11  - Prime Set 'B' only, hold Prime set 'A' always low (high for neg pulse GAL)

I got F1 mixed up with 1X and glued the wrong Trimmer Pot's recessed.  These were to be the F1 (which is 4X).  It is 4X that is never phased.  If I ever want to DLY 4X, I will remove the jumper wire that bypasses these 1X RC DLY's.  I could not swizzle the signals around with code to solve the Trimmer placement per # of available Boolean Product Terms for certain output pins (comments fixed where there were errors).

I cannot find Camera Cable right now, so I will post photos of card wired inside ring in a day or two.

BTW - The Prim's do all match 100% IF I short out the Secondary, Else middle two segments' F'-Res' increases by 15% above the others.

And that cheesey 1X Scope Probe I was using was capacitive and brought the 3MHz (or so) real resonance points down to 780KHz & 900KHz (middle seg's).  I mention because I will hand tune from above the ring and hands are capacitive, so I'll keep that in mind. 
(http://) (//)
I'm only showing the negative pulse simulation and only the new features (pulsed all same and just 3 pulsed).  See Reply #1 for original posts showing the staggered firing orders.

I'm working on high voltage source now using Coil, Cap, and 555.  I have 22M Ohms on a Bridge with Choke, but my inverter is dead so will be cheaper to biuld it discrete.  My SM-10 1000VDC variable PS will arrive Dec 1st they say.  This one is equiped for feedback control using 0 to +5VDC in.

Ward

@All,
Well I had this battery HVPS rock solid yesterday at 210V @ 23mA after testing many inductor candidates,  Some really pulled too much power while making hundreds of volts.  This one was the winner for low Amps / high Volts / no heat from load.  After wire wrapping and with fixed components to ensure repeatable results, I am getting only 80V with same frequency & duty-cycle, though I added 555 decouple not there before.  What a disappointment.  I will get back to at least 200VDC somehow... with 1 9V battery like before.   

Edit:  Nixxing the 220uF decouple brings output to 88 VDC.  I replay these words: 'do everything the exact opposite of what you have been taught'.  And SM's words about: 'PCB materials adsorbing moisture' and 'soldering at least 1/2" above the PCB material'.  I thought Wire Wrap would benefit from not having pads and traces stuck to the board.  I will test to see if it is the Vector Board or this 30 AWG causing the difference in output. 
If it is either, I should expect the same RE sapping to occur driving the Primaries with similar Ckt materials.  I may have to wire without these particular materials.  I will try IRF840 also and Flyback XFRMR I found.  For Flyback, do not miss this info about Line powered HV PS:   http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/labhvps/index.htm   The link contains info on how to learn the pin-out for any Flyback... and I see the high impededance may make this an ideal Choke.  End Edit -

I left the PWM out because the duty cycle yields max out as is and I won't be needing less until I can make more than 200VDC to start with. 

Hopefully I will learn how to achieve 1 or 2 KV+ as Jason has done before.  Any tips Jason?  This is Eldarion's same ckt he posted except the 10K Gate resistor to Gnd (less decreases output / eats power)... and the 220uF 35V 555 decouple Cap.

I need a shield for the controller.  I chose the center two segments to be 4X because the Secondary makes these resonate at higher freq'.

Ward (http://) (//)

@All,

I will start explaining more because some tell me they still do not fully understand what to do.  We all know how that feels, so... 

I still have not put the fixed HVPS back onto Bread Board yet to see if I could get 80V back to 225VDC.  I will; later.  I need to start somewhere and the Vector Board provides support I must have so I proceed with it.  If this fiberglass affects the circuit, I will seek out PTFE Eyelets if they are available, else work something else out.

That large Capacitor was a saftey hazard.  I found a very small 1.5uF Film Cap' rated for 1000VDC.  Nice thing is is bleeds itself off in about 2 seconds... that 80uF at 400VDC discharged like a fire cracker if no resistor used.  I abandoned fixed frequency and pulse width HVPS that Eldarion shared and substituted an IRF840 for the '640 and a corrected 556 PWM from Bob's PWM3f schematic.  PWM3f schematic is missing 10K resistor from the 556 Timer Pin 8 to +V for the 'negative edge trigger' Ckt which now works.  Oh ya, you must decouple the 556 with a Cap' else PWM stops triggerring if > 6V supply.  I used 100uF 35V Electrolytic.   I selected the 556 PWM because the 556 can drive a FET well.  The PWM on time can not be smaller that 556 Async CLK's off time.   The .001uF Cap is about fastest / smallest possible without failing to hold the Trigger long enough.  It yields an 8uS on time minimun from the PWM.  The pulse width can be raised so that off-time approaches 1uS.  I learned to always start with lowest frequency and shortest PWM pulse, else it gets wierd tuning it... try it and you will understand what happens when the frequency's period becomes less than the PWM on-time.   This is a great first PWM project.  I recommend it to anyone scared of any of the electronics.  It is not so hard after all.  I used jumper to select Range Cap.  Don't bother.  Just use a 103 / .01uF ceramic since all the power you desire lies just above audio range... not higher.

Most interesting I thing I saw tuning the frequency and pulse width was that when I set the pulse width at 8uS minimum and lowered frequency, I can see ramp wave graph shape of the Vout data. 
Near max frequency of 100KHz, I found that tuning pulse width for max V out accross the 1.5uF 1000V storage Capacitor was twice as efficient if I did so at a frequency where the V out was minimum when pulse width was minimum.
Near min frequency it did not matter where I set PW for max V out.
I found max V out happens at minimum frequency... and it is audible and 'annoying'.  I get 500V out with ringing, 400V out if I raise frequency to 15KHz.
Power consumption with inductor removed is 25mA.  With inductor and 400VDC out it is only 22mA... I don't know why.  At 15KHz, getting 500 V out uses 75mA, so I settle for 400.  9V battery discharge info here:  http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm

I hear one may place a Bridge Rectifier AC inputs accross the inductor and feed the + & - Bridge out's back to battery... the best way to extend battery life.  I will try that when I get more Vector Board.

I had troubles with an alternative 555/Op-Amp PWM for some reason I have not solved.  I posted example of switching problem I see using LM193 PWM here:  http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_signal_generator2.htm?showPruned=1

Lastly, the highly accurate PWM's seen on the web using diodes to isolate charge path from discharge path are for fixed frequency PWM only... so that one is out.

I have a short somewhere on my GAL card and will fix is ASAP.  I think I can try starting up 3 Prim's.   I ponder an inverting Op-Amp on Pancake Collector as avalanche shutdown trigger.  This is only way until my Gammahighvoltage.com SM-10 HVPS arrives Dec 1st.  I deisire it for its 0 to +5V linear HVPS control.


BTW - I have not forgotten RichSAS's wet cell battery bank as HVPS (or as the entire load), I just can't afford that many batteries or store them near my bench just yet... ( I want lots of available potential) so I strive to force the LEM towards the load.  Then I can test using one battery to be charged and increase batteries until impedence stops all the action.  I will test Earl's recommended 22 MOhms with and without the choke.
Ward
(http://) (//)

Hi Ward,
   I dont know how many people are watching this. Great work and dedication.

Mark.

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on November 28, 2007, 01:26:29 PM
Hi Ward,
   I dont know how many people are wathing this. Great work and dedication.

Mark.

I agree Ward with Mark's comment, totally.  Also thank you for the outstanding documentation of your last post.  I look forward to when you are testing the coil.

Great Job!   ;)

Bruce

@All,

Well the status is my on-board Op-Amp oscillator has jitter.  I used 20% Cap's.  In the 12X CLK it is hard to see.  In the divided down frequencies it is quite apparent as stationary trace left side of 'Scope, shakes at right side of Scope display.  My DDS 20 as external CLK is solid, healing troubles with all but 1 channel (from GAL even with HexFET's removed) will figure out tomorrow.

I know at least two who read this (or one now?) and feel I am somehow way ahead of them... and who tell me they only comprehend part of what I write (e-mail that is) and say and ask them to read.  I thought I was the only one feeling this way.  I add detail for them.  Each is the absolute cream of the crop best at what they do for a living and it is very technical stuff I assure you, but these new and unusual technical realms are not so easily digested if taken in without hands on or too much at once.  I am just an ordinary average mind amoungst here PHD's, with and without sheep skins, so I know the feeling.  So many difficult choices that a nap or cleaning the garage becomes easier than progressing forwards with this.  I know well.  It does not matter if only these two benefit from this.  I am going to drag them along with me... unless they stop trying (putting tangable things together).

New folks, use a spiral notebook and record everything every day.  What you read, where, which files were there, what you did, conclusions, follow-ups, to do, to buy, to study.  I can not believe intellegent and capable people are trying to learn these topics from memory alone.  Take notes.

Thank you Eldarion and everyone else here leading the way.  Everyone needs to start somewhere and without your lead I was not so confident with all the choices.  I tried to wait until I understood more before trying anything so I would choose only the best known methods and came to understand this is the only way to fail. 

If I hadn't built the stripped down HVPS I would have missed the finer points of Bob's 556 PWM and not figured out the missing resistor (I finally read the right place about it on web).  Previously, I had convinced myself that Bob did switcharoo with usual R1 & R2 ratios and put that Cap' there to test our ability to figure it out... and at first I failed to understand it was supposed to have very high duty-cycle CLK so that at least would stay constant through freq' range to better serve the negaive-edge trigger shceme.  I switched his Resistor ratios and tossed the Neg edge trigger Cap thinking it was a blocking Cap placed there to mess up the lazy minded.  I did indeed ask everyone in the group who would discuss it and searched the web for Bob's pure 556 PWM and still never found it.  I only found the negative edge detect example when I turned away from Op-Amp PWM again and really wanted Bob's to work... via will-power.

It is a shame that of dozens of capable people I know on this Earth I can find only two willing to participate in this with me.  The rest will never know. Never from me that is. The few who would rather wait for me to learn it and just tell them remind me of those waiting for Bob to hand them a working Hex Controller.  What a shame... for their own loss.  This is like a 'Pot-Luck Dinner'.  Everyone should try to bring something to the party... something different.  I hope someone posts details of their LC delay scheme soon because I think I might need it .)

Ward

Quote from: HumblePie on November 29, 2007, 04:47:51 AM
@All,

[snip]
It is a shame that of dozens of capable people I know on this Earth I can find only two willing to participate in this with me.  The rest will never know. Never from me that is. The few who would rather wait for me to learn it and just tell them remind me of those waiting for Bob to hand them a working Hex Controller.  What a shame... for their own loss.  This is like a 'Pot-Luck Dinner'.  Everyone should try to bring something to the party... something different.  I hope someone posts details of their LC delay scheme soon because I think I might need it .)  Ward 

Ward, as you know I am taking my own road, thereby adding to the 'Pot-Luck Dinner'.  I will encounter unique problems that will have to be solved by me alone.  I hope my intelligence is up to it.  We have a good team and are working towards a common goal and we will arrive via inspiration and perspiration.  Results do not drop from the sky on a golden plate.  Just as a skipper on a solo round-the-world race has to master and be in control of his brain and emotions, so do we.  We will have problems and be discouraged, but we will persevere until we arrive finally at the harbor.  There is a saying:  "in life there are no problems, only solutions".  It is a matter of philosophy and control of the mind.  Change the direction, trim the sails, but never give up.

Earl

hello Ward  and All

I am still here  as Ward said  i dont have a sheepskin, what i know is self learned. So i am hanging in there.
i do read and take notes and save all  that i can. Like Bob i too have family problems  and know how he feels
my prayers go out to him and family.  AND all the luck in the world   to all who try to  learn this and other  OUdevices.
My heart and mind goes  out to all.

see all of you  on the  flip flop

wer

@All,

I am very sorry and wish I never wrote that now.  I meant no disrespect by talking about others 'waiting for Bob to lead them on a new controller'.  I have no reason to assume this about anyone in our group besides one of my own lab partners who I was stewing over.  I apologize to him now because he also has his reasons for not progressing... all quite out of his control.  When you are the sole bread winner with a good and hard to replace salary, some corporations take extreme advantage of their employees 'causing' them  to work 60 and 80 hour weeks like this lab partner does supporting a manufacturing line... one of the last in the USA of its kind.  He is on call and has to spread these hours out night and day because test results take many hours for every action taken.  I am so sorry everyone.  Please forgive me.

Each of us has their own reasons for progressing or not.  The sour grapes I was feeling should have been replaced with encouraging any performance at all to make it better rather than scorning it when it was not what I hoped it would be.  You see I am a hypocrite now if you read my mention in Bob's thread about Hado, the consciousness of water ('river water', with microbes that is).  Even snow flakes of scorned water malformed Vs praised water.  Shame on me.  I just sent my lab partners parts to build the HVPS with.   

Lastly, this a good time to mention about other reasons some accomplished folks just can may not spell out ANY best known 'recipe' for you (in case you are not yet aware)... they include: unwanted attention,  fame, death, intimidation, validity challenges, lazy question inundation, ridicule by those too lazy to read on for a few more minutes to research their doubts, etc.     Again I say this for my lab partners if for no one else.  There will never be a best known recipe posted exactly else this place will stop existing.  (May I say that in the non-pub'?)  Oh ya, you had better archive all this stuff on CD's and barry it in the Ole' time capsule.   Sometimes world class information is removed even by the author :(. ..

Sincerely,

Ward

hello  Ward

sorry  i did not mean to upset ya.  Just spoke the truth.
i was not afinded. i was letting every know that i was still in the running  just slow.
The work i see comming from you  is very good and after about 2 years of reading and watching  i am begining to under stand more and more.  I just cant run as fast as you guyes.
as far as that goes  keep up the good work.

Know what you mean about  authors pulling  info off the net .  Happend  to me once, had the project finished  but 1 part. The auther refused to give the  name of part or maker of the part
so the whole project was no good and 6 month of work trashed. To this day  he will not rlease the info.  Sooo  I dont give up so easley.

I do belive in every one in this group. Some run  and some crawl

Just all keep up the good work  and KEEP in contact !!!

see i said  i will see ya on the flip  flop  ;D ;D ;D ;D

wer

hi Ward @all

I just posted some infor on Earls thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.new.html#new

After I confirm simulation with experiments (today I hope) I will post a heap of information. It looks like fairly simple circuits can be used for driving -- but you do need to select the right parts and component values. I'ts quite amazing just how well you can do with a simple design -- but you do have to pay attention to detail.

cheers

mark.

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on November 29, 2007, 05:45:22 PM
hi Ward @all

I just posted some infor on Earls thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.new.html#new

After I confirm simulation with experiments (today I hope) I will post a heap of information. It looks like fairly simple circuits can be used for driving -- but you do need to select the right parts and component values. I'ts quite amazing just how well you can do with a simple design -- but you do have to pay attention to detail.

cheers

mark.

Dr. Snoswell,

* Are rise and fall times to open-ended drive as pulse width is to closed-ended drive?  {Yes that is also pun on Schoolastic Aptitude style questions}. 

EDIT 01-Dec-07 ** Is rise/fall time the tweak to be tweaked for open-ended drive builders?  Ooops duplicated the first question by accident. 

Do-Over:
** What is the difference between driving a folded wire from both ends with seperate FET's Vs soldering the two driven ends together and driving them with one FET?
In the link above you talk about closed-ended drive pulse desired not being shortest possible, but that width that yields peak BEMF. 

*** Isn't this another way of saying 'peak resonance'? 

**** If so, does this say 'resonate the Prime'?  (as mentioned in a group discussion where we could use a Bifilar Pancake pickup coil to detect such with and without shielding)  "One Prime at a time 'with other Primes inactive' ". 

     I only ask '****' because of capacitive coupling dominating at 90 degrees as in the one wire experiment Jason showed us recently... and the TPU...
...and how it is said that 'the TPU is really a Tesla Magnifying Transmitter-Receiver rolled into one',

     But In the Meyl video and papers he says 'the resonant Rcvr 'fulfils the conditions required for resonance' and hence is of opposing phase with respect to transmitter.  So my mind wants to think; make the Secondary resonate in response to the the Primary, but they do not ever 'co-resonate' together this way nor do they have any linked phase relationship. They are not common, but the circumference is. 
   
So then I think of the experiment you shared and Jason duplicated with the solenoid coil capped at one end with the folded Bifilar pancake.  (I re-cap this so it makes sense for others.) 

     That test showed:  Drive the solenoid, pancake picks-up in-phase at both ends, pancake upside down no difference (because it is 'flux blind'), BUT drive pancake and solenoid pickup shows 90 degrees lagging one end and 90 degrees leading at other end. 

So now I see the solenoid should be bent into circle and its ends would be 180 degrees out of phase, fulfilling the conditions required for resonance.. in the toroid itself, not the Primary or the Secondary after all.  So the optimum Primes should be folded 'Bifilar' to make them fluxless (not real Tesla Bifilar like Wiki' shows).  I bet this is how they transmit two directions at once because they are flux-free... like Giant's avitar once illustrated.  Bob actually says this.  'drive a coil from both ends to really see results' to paraphrase.  So Dr. Snoswell, can your simulation for driving from both ends fit my proposed folded Primaries?  You said it was the very best way to drive them.

The opposing phase certainly explains how the sum of ALL winds on the Toroid is/are the longitudinal open-Capacitor path of the ~LMD Transmission Line and why all should fully touch... and how it could be made resonant at a totally different frequency than either the Primary or the Secondary, being forced into nodes by circumference.   The opposing phase explains why my Primes near the middle resonate oddly higher than the others (whether 1X or 10X probed, relatively speaking... BTW - one is supposed to use a pick-up coil probe, not connect right to coil else you are adding L & C to them with the probe.

~See the LMD Trans' Line at http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm   

I look forward to the simulations, and I wish I had time to learn Spice or Jason's favored alternative simulator because the reports are very encouraging.  Still you blow drivers though, but fewer I bet.  I still have 4 DEIC420 drivers I'll try after I get my balance.

*******************
@All, 

My GAL card 'seems' 100% clean now with DDS 20 as the CLK source, but it won't fit in middle unless I really hack some posts down, and wires going around it would be a last resort. 

My Tektronics 465 O'Scope Time Base Shaft just stuck in B'Dly mode and it is the perfect excuse to spend money on a new scope. 

Please advise with your favorite Scope picks if you were to buy one today.  I am on a budget, but they last so long I'll splurge!  I know I will be glad I checked your opinions before I buy tomorrow.  Thanks in advance.

Ward

Hi Ward,
   I don't have time to answer all the questions now --

I did some testing today. I am not blowing any drivers now... but I am blowing mosfets at an alarming rate... and at *way* below their rated voltage and current.

I have to do more tests -- but something is wrong. Before it dies the output waveforms do match the simulations very well although their amplitude is low -- and the mosfets die with alarming regularity. I am concerned that there may be some energy spikes that I am not seeing on the scope -- and that it's this "invisible" energy that's killing the mosfets.

Mark.

Hi All,

here is why I want to "blow up" my transistors or diodes.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.msg61991.html#msg61991

Regards, Earl

@All,

My camera's display just died so no photos for awhile.  See below.  I removed the Op-Amp oscillator from my GAL board and cut the board narrower so it will fit in the ring beside my DDS 20.  Can't make the Opto-isolators listed for the PWM3F work anywhere above 60KHz and I am using the current levels this OCP-PCP116 opto's data sheet calls for... so I will try the IL710-2 in PDIP Pkg rated at 300V.

I could have waited to obtain 1% Capacitors (code 'F') to retest the jitter and thinking that is what delayed action.  However, even if jitter is solved, this oscillator is not near fast enough.  My GAL uses 12X CLK.  I can not use a 6X CLK for divide by 1.5 as the TP900 Pulser does.   A CLK multiplier is really the only way to get stable and adjustable higher freq's without my DDS 20. 

My RC Dly's will suffer phase stability jitter too from the 20% tolerance Cap's.  I thought +/- 20% only affected the actual measured value Vs labled value... it seems the cycle to cycle repeatability is the major issue.

Do List:  Fix and test GAL Card wires being redone.  Change Power Supply and Kill Switch wires to coax, and reinstall 22M Ohm Resistors on the HVPS Capacitor.  I am very close, but am having momentum problems for various reasons.  I will succeed.

Edit 3-Dec-07 - PC just died and the motherboard is extint!  O'Scope, Camera, PC... 3 sigma says it should be smooth sailing after I get a new PC.  Using Vista box I'm borrowing Vs WinXP is going to be like running in mud and I all those book marks I hope I can recover.  Maybe the time for Linux has arrived.

I don't know what I lost yet.  Be safe -> REMEMBER TO ARCHIVE ALL OF THIS DATA...(all text, all files, all bookmarks)... ESPECIALLY THE OLDEST STUFF LIKE RECENT POSTS OF TAO, EM, MARCO, JASON, MDR, GIANT, etc (many others... I just read these first... order is random Thank you all even those not mentioned).     

THIS DATA WILL NOT STAY STAY HERE FOREVER.  CAN YOU ACE IT ALL BEFORE IT EXPIRES?  Trust me on this.Ward(http://[img]%20[img])[/img][/img]

@Hey All,

New horrible Vista OS PC has worn me down after a day wasted 'trying' to import my WinXP bookmarks into Vista.   An expert assured me it had to be done as was shown to set ownerships for importing only to find I could not per URL format Vs html. 

Ha.  I felt like the guy salting before tasting I did.  I could have tested a few files before clicking about 10,000 clicks (really), but it gave me time to think about things. 

While I burned that time I kept replaying Dr's words about 'content' of that previous post I made, I assume about the DC to DC power supply and/or tuning characteristics I saw. "Interesting" I thought.  It wasn't even a toroid.  I was so focused on wanting that inductor to be very tiny I only tried one that was toroidal... a bead really about 5mm diameter.  It ate mAmps like candy. 

Its circumference was so small and this apparently is what made its impedence so low when driven at such low frequencies as a 555 delivers.  It did not matter how short its pulse width was.  The low frequency was inappropriate for the circumference.


Then there was the Ramp Wave pattern seen in the DC2DC HVPS output that I kind of breezed over describing.  Remember to/(I) start(ed) with lowest freq' and shortest pulse... which always uses the least mA of any pulse width.  As I increased frequency with shortest pulse width, the voltage out followed in a linear fashion until it SNAPPED up dramatically with PLL characteristics... meaning I had to reverse and decreased frequency more than expected to get back to the low voltage out 'low-peak'.     The wire length was trying to hold the wavelength of the frequency into integer mutiples of its length it seems, but why the asymetrical behavior?  Why is the ramp wave pointing with ramps going up and towrads the low frequency side of the graph ( I made a mental graph, else I'd show you).  Try it if you have not, else be disadvantaged I bet.

Sounds just like SM telling us about his " 15" Stereo Speaker Amp that he had to leave at 35KHz and change because it fought his tuning attempts to reach 35K... so he left it there at this frequency where he could not hear that > audio band anyway... SM was telling us what the circumference does to resonance. The exact change over 35K is related to circumference. 

BUT my little inductor yielding 500VDC out is just a 1:1 chip Transformer.  NOT a toroid at all.  The frequency was fitting the length of wire and that wire length forces nodes.  Forget about if it is integer # of circumferences that fit wave or wave length of the FREQUENCY fitting the circumference (no keep pondering that too!).

  The "Phase velocity" of the pulse or transition we drive is << than SOL in Copper and has something to do with the "Acoustic wave"... but somehow it is much slower than the pulse or transition we drive into this thing.  I read start of EM's thread 'Exploring Addition of Signals in SM's TPU' and got to thinking about what in the heck EM means by "Phase Velocity".   

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3138.0.html
My take on it is:  ->   In here he talks about how the wavelength traveling at SOL IF matching the circumference would have its peak fall at the very same place around the toroid each and every cycle... by nature of the wavelength fitting the circumference exactly.  So actually when using a slower frequency we seek the next best thing... an integer # of circumferences fitting exactly into the wave length.  Yes the signal will overlap onto itself and add to itself, but the same each and every cycle, as long as exact integer multiples apply.     If SOL, we need 3.2GHz I told EM.  He said 'the acoustic wave is slower' I think he said.   He describes rotation emenating from slightly less than or more than integer # of multiples (in my interpolation... he really says literally wave length = circ', but forget that for now).   

So then I replay thoughts about
MAGNETOSTRICTION... the audible buzzing when inductor pulsates and stretches conductors and affects magnetic impedence and vica-verce (if there is such a thing).     Audible/acoustic implies low frequency... what?   Well if that slightly "Off-tune", it would tend to rotate the peak aroud the toroid because its end would land at a slightly shorter landing zone than each previous cycle did if it was anywhere less than 1/2 a circumference shorter than a perfect integer # of circumferences in wavelength.  When it is a little shorter still, say 3/4 of one circumference, it is just like being 1/4 > than a perfect integer # of circumferences long, and the pulse peak rotates the other way.  NOT, same way, opps. BUT it is the OPPOSITE direction that the pulse is being driven!   This landing zone of the 'start' of pulse (or end of pulse if it makes you think easier) seems to be what is being called:

PHASE-VELOCITY...

I think... and this can be made to travel very very slowly around the ring either CW or CCW... all with one frequency.   INTERESTING stuff EM.  Now why not drive folded Primaries so they are driven at both ends (same end both because folded back on itself) to cancel flux so there will be bidirectional transmisisons of pure longitudinal pulses capacitivly coupled around the toroid?  That way you get bidirectional counter-rotaing longitudinal "Clashes" kind of like MagClashes.pdf (a masterpiece of pdf'ing BTW... nice clash image!)   
     AND why not just solder the side by side leads together of this folded bifilar Prim so can be driven perfectly simultaneously with a single FET?  Oh yes I want to try it fast.  I am the slowest hands on guy I you know, but I'm trying hard to understand how this toroidal one-frequency MT works and this slows me down just as my lab partners tell me it paralyzes them.  'Keep thinking every day' I urge them/him.  It is a little similar to Jason's green mini-TPU here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6NlO-fVr_U,

but the drive of the Primary is not same as I describe.


Haste makes waste.  I must try the salvaged PC power supply sized toroid to see what it does. Toroidal DC to DC power supply I read was recalled from Min'Man'Miss'l 'deployment' for being 'ou'.  I see this vending machine is said to be also... notice the big toroid:

Bruce's sticky to  http://altenergy-pro.com (no FORGET the pictures really, just MEMORIZE the text there called 'Magnetic Resonance Specrum")... it says to me take EM's rotation in 1 ring with 1 freq and put a hundred identical passive rings above and below that will rotate for frre-ride on the back on the active ring WITHOUT DIMINISHING THE SOURCE... oh ya... INTO INFINITY without diminishing the source.  Like gallery photo #2 shows with the stove pipe satalites resoanting for free in presence of active transmitter in center.  An MT I bet... Lindsay would not answer when I asked about "Pipes, tubes, and plastic" back in late June in SuccTPUreplicat' thread.  It is not like an alternator that loads your engine down as you turn on the lights... he he!  It says that anyway.  I will try.

About doing everything (meaning some things) backwards from what we've been taught (taught where/when ha ha).  There is some contratdiction by specification so be prepared to test all hypothesis.  If they prove false, test the opposite for grins.  I would have bet lots that min pulse width to the 9V DC to 500 VDC PS would have been more efficient than max pulse width, but opposite was true to about almost always on pulse width where mAmps climb finally.


AND realize I am a fool if I do not place the bridge accross a toroid instead of 'any inductor'.  Like the Japanese self-powering vending machine appears to have a Boyce sized toroid in it keeping its batteries charged always!   This bridge saves what the diode blocks and is normally wasted... sending it back to the battery, with a Cap accross it to smooth and sooth the battery input.

To see the Capacitor equivlent circuit that keeps batteries charged, see gnosys.com links "MUST READ" and you'll find:
http://theverylastpageoftheinternet.com  and a 'slightly' wrong schematic of the Capacitive circiuit from an Engineer who heard Mr Bedini speak about it and just built it.  Both modulate the equilibrium.

OK so my brain is cleared of this thinking.  Now how is the transmitter and receiver of this toroidal MT to work without a tank circuit.  Giants new Hetridyning tread jut posted links back to this open-capacitor Tesla MT again and it has tank Ckts.  Grumpy points out these coils are being used like Capacitors, not inductors and could be replaced with some kind of 'capacitor' plates ('implied')... hmmm.  Interesting.  I will eventually connect all this, but not without hands on!  I bet the EM style rotation direction change with slight freq'/wave length change is somehow related to the ramp wave I see in HVPS V-output Vs frequency.

Ward

Hi Ward,

Very interesting thoughts there!

Regarding Vista, I once had the pain of trying to use it in a store.  I now run Linux, customized to look like XP:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/KDE-XP

Works great!

Eldarion

Quote from: eldarion on December 04, 2007, 09:17:23 AM
Hi Ward,

Very interesting thoughts there!

Regarding Vista, I once had the pain of trying to use it in a store.  I now run Linux, customized to look like XP:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/KDE-XP

Works great!

Eldarion

@Eldarion,

Thank you for your recommendation.  I have a Lindows expert friend who has tried to get me off big fat MS OS's for many years.  My excuse was the learning curve.  Now I must decide this again.  Do I side step learning Vista skills I may need when I use such a system?  I want to very badly.  I really am struggling with Vista.  I must get RMF happenning ASAP, so I will delay the change I desire to Lindows.  BTW - It is said that the Vista built -in Yahoo toolbar Big Brothers archives all I/O from the OS, just like CNN has reported about Google Tool-Bar.  This is good enough reason to reject this OS.  I doubt I can remove anything besides the facade, but I am assuming this.  GrrrR!

Thank you again Eldarion for leading the way in your thread.  It really helps me to see what others are doing.  I've asked where more Bob Boyce style TPU builds are posted because you, Earl, and Wer are the only others I see posting builds of it.

Ward

@All

My recent new notebook left the factory with Vista on it, but the dealer upgraded Vista to XP, which is what I'm using now.  When I received it. I found a ~4 GB Windows partition for C: and the rest of the HDD was ~75GB empty second partition.  There was no recovery disk, so I hunted around and found a Linux program called PING (Part Image Is Not Ghost).  PING is a great program, I highly recommend it.  Backup and restore, and you can even burn a boot CD disk that could save your @ss one day.

I also highly recommend shrinking Windows C: partition down to as small as possible.  I see no reason to have C: larger than 4 or 5 GB.  Never install any programs to C:, they don't belong there.  Keep C: lean and mean and use PING to take regular snapshots for permanent storage on HDD or DVDs.

I have been keeping data backups on an external 2.5 in USB drive and just upgraded from a 80GB PATA box to a 250GB SATA 2.5" box.  I am on my third SATA box and will soon be able to give some recommendations, especially which ones NOT to buy.  I require that the box need only one USB port for power from notebook, many need two USB ports because of high spin-up power peak.  The one I bought today appears to be happy with the power from just one port.  Stay tuned for my external backup box advise.

We are left with 3 possibilities whether we like it or not; stay with XP, upgrade from Vista to XP (demand the disk from the dealer), or migrate to Linux.  I have learned a bit of Linux in order to play with my Linux router box (LinkSys running OpenWRT or DD-WRT).  The programs OpenSSH and OpenVPN are very interesting and useful to have.

Earl

@Earl,

Way cool info.  It brings me back from distraction though.  Do you have any thoughts for me on Reply 31 30 or 34 here?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3506.msg61974.html#msg61974

You are Mr parallel tran's line drive guy and your posts and Dr's Spice Sim's inspired these questions.  Hands on will test hypothesis.  I now solicit design of experiment ideas.   Here are mine:

* (EDIT - This is Jason's idea / config I will test)   Do one wire experiment with lamp cord shorted one end together only, other end across resistor with one lead (so scope can see signal), other lead to Gnd.  Drive solenoid, open and closed ended drive.  Repeat test backwards... driving lamp cord one lead other unused, then repeat other end shorted like folded bifilar.

**With one wire winding above, drive solenoid winding again.  Bend it into circle while observing the response.  See if a gap, or diameter adjust of circle acts in any way like a larger circle / longer circumference.

***Maybe try winding a solenoid made from the one wire winding assy above too... then try driving the solenoid Vs the 'receptor' again.. receptor as in text at http://altenergy-pro.com describes... maybe.  I'm rambling, but I now have a great list of experiments I must perform, else let myself down in non-public ha ha.  Hey Spencer, start posting your build because it forces some sort of schedule on you that will somehow fit into busy schedule.  It is like paying yourself first 10% of your gross earnings into 'never touch nest egg'.  Do this before you pay bills!  All else will fit the 'modulated equilibrium' your budgeting has created.  I better go put some hours in before boss calls me for progress report.  I suppose dead PC is good excuse, but I grow poorer every hour!

Ward

PS - Giant once wrote 'Keep the noise down'.  I will stop this texting bla bla and post experiments and build progress.  Otto told me early, "I don't want to hear any theories"...  "Just build".  Then Bruce told me, "Now is the time to build, you have all you need" (any way more than what we really need) .. as in comradare follows succeeders, ha ha.  I will succeed.

Quote from: HumblePie on December 04, 2007, 03:00:52 AM
'So then I replay thoughts about
MAGNETOSTRICTION... the audible buzzing when inductor pulsates and stretches conductors and affects magnetic impedance and vica-verce (if there is such a thing).    audible/acoustic implies low frequency... what?   Well if that slightly "Off-tune", it would tend to rotate the peak aroud the toroid because its end would land at a slightly shorter landing zone than each previous cycle did if it was anywhere less than 1/2 a circumference shorter than a perfect integer # of circumferences in wavelength.  When it is a little shorter still, say 3/4 of one circumference, it is just like being 1/4 > than a perfect integer # of circumferences long, and the pulse peak rotates the other way.  NOT, same way, opps. BUT it is the OPPOSITE direction that the pulse is being driven!   This landing zone of the 'start' of pulse (or end of pulse if it makes you think easier) seems to be what is being called:

@All,
I do not know what I do not know... level 1 of competence forget all that I said,

but...  It seems the only way to get the wave length fed into the circle to land at shorter and shorter place each time around is when wavelength is < circumference, so EM seems to be correct when he says "Ideally the wave length should fit the circumference", that way the (I will call it) 'acoustic wave' can be made to rotate each way with a slightly shorter or longer wavelength.  If frequency is lower and wave length longer, it can only go opposite to direction of the pulse/wavelength travel. 

If true, this implies that the longitudinal waves are somehow anchored to the Prim 'antenna' that induced them and not free to circle as if they were launched into the new, toroidal antenna it seems.  Comes back to what is "Phase velocity" really and how is it detected.  Dr. said he detected 'nodes' in Owen's old ring, but the details may differ too much for compare.


The attached Longitudinal experiments document from Jason shows that L-waves are standing waves in an antenna and travel very very very slowly in Cu, but faster in air.  These standing waves can be modulated, and can only birth Siamese twin E and M standing waves (at 90 deg' to each other) when the L-waves cut magnetic lines of force...  I must move on, but think this matters.  The doc contains experimental results using 9V batteries and tiny 5mm antenna and is easy reading.


I add this link I found in Bruce's thread that mentions more about why OPPOSITE behavior than expected:
 
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html  

And impedance basics that must be comprehended for receiving power well it seems.  Thank Bruce, I would link to your post, but can't find now.

I await a new OWON 2CH O'Scope for $427 delivered with 4 1X/10X probes that should arrive Saturday I hope... and IL710-2E digital isolators for my DDS 20(s) good for 100MHz 2500V iso', 5V source.  My other obsolete O'Scope is totally dead so I am blind for a few more days...
So I'll work on making all this work with 9V batteries so I won't need a Supply plugged in or have to touch those metal knobs on it that may charge up.  I'll get several re chargables so I can charge some with bridge rectifier output from the 9V DC2DC PS. 

I refrain from trying to feed this back to the HVPS 9V without a step-down transformer and a regulator after that.  I bet I get opposite of what I expected before last week's HVPS that used less power when it drove that inductor Vs nothing at all.)  Especially after reading Bruce's link again.

Ward

@All,

See SM-10 HVPS's in photo of latest CLK scheme.

Undid the GAL Card CLK'otomy and put on a piggyback Boyce 556 PWM.  10% Film Cap's this time too.  1% in SMD only it seems unless huge bulk order.  DDS 20 in there is last resort as I waiver back to embracing "Just above audio" frequencies, and I recall Dollard Video saying they did not even bother to tune it, and it was an audible frequency they transmitted and tuned with that tunable bridge.   I await my new oscilloscope.

I read this and can see I need 6 channels for closed ended drive soon.   Dirac's Delta Function doc did not make it so clear to me that exact 50% duty-cycle was so unique.   It says at    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_6/9.html


"You might notice a particular uniqueness to the sound heard through the detector headphones when the potentiometer is in center position (50% duty cycle -- 50% load power), versus a kind of similarity in sound just above or below 50% duty cycle. This is due to the absence or presence of even-numbered harmonics. Any waveform that is symmetrical above and below its centerline, such as a square wave with a 50% duty cycle, contains no even-numbered harmonics, only odd-numbered. If the duty cycle is below or above 50%, the waveform will not exhibit this symmetry, and there will be even-numbered harmonics. The presence of these even-numbered harmonic frequencies can be detected by the human ear, as some of them correspond to octaves of the fundamental frequency and thus "fit" more naturally into the tone scheme. " 

It strikes me that This GAL should be only 3 outputs and more bits in the counter so several harmonics can be tried easily instead of only 4X, just for flexibility, (not to set out on tangent to change Bob's spec's).   The real motivator is that two separate GALs driving only 3 Primes each can be made to run at slightly different frequencies, say 7.8 Hz apart or what ever. SM even tells to study slightly out of phase transformers Bobs says "Just follow SM's clues".  I need to get DOS PALasm working on Vista right after I try it this way with a Scope!    Oh I got all my bookmarks and files permitted recursively BTW.

Edit:  I do need to get out more, but fear getting lost in the threads.  Nothing to fear but fear itself I now read here from Jason months ago: 

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2873.msg41889.html#msg41889

Also my Magnetic Bias PS with 10Ohm fixed resistor in series with 100 Ohm trimmer.
Ward


Ward

Looks like your having lots of fun Ward ;-)

Bob

@All,

I have forgotten to include frequency shutoff's for my GAL design.  I have spent 15 hours trying to understand how to get PALasm to work in Vista and I really want to give up with emm386 issues.  Admin mode won't support full screen, user mode won't read autoexec or config.sys.  I write CD's from Vista and Win98 can not see the files and the new box has no FDD at all.   DOSbox program I can't figure out how to get these files read either.  That Win98 box has internet problems and is hanging by a thread, so I can not even e-mail the needed files to myself.  I turn away from this before I really waste more time.

All I need is to define two more inputs, 'no2x' and 'no1x', so these frequencies can be added one at a time after 4x, not all on at once!  (maybe I have these orders backwards; I will check later).  Switches down-stream are just not intended here.  I have two switches on the top DIP Switch pack I want to use to control this from the source.  I'll try to borrow another Win98 or XP box for now I think.  The decisions are tough for me.  What ever I do, I'll learn there was an easier way later I'm sure.

My piggyback 556 PWM CLK source did not fire up, so I need to solve that wiring issue too.  I did receive my OWON Scope though and am playing with it now and looking for my wiring error.  As soon as it is found, I'll get back on a PALasm solution.  That may be Lattice Semi's 'ABLE' developer program which I have avoided so far.

Ward

Hey there Ward. Where are you located?

Bob

@Bob,

I'm in Los Gatos, CA, near San Jose, just above Lexington Reservoir and Lupen Nudist Colony, with view of Redwoods, without being under them.  The colony below keeps out development as they own 160 acres below us... no I can't see them.  The private road here is a mere goat trail and keeps city folks at bay.  Contractors keep taking out my retaining wall posts and taking off like they did not notice, but otherwise, it is the best place I have ever been.  I hear you are really way out in the sticks there in Colorado.  Takes me 13 minutes to get down town to services.  We use CA Dept of Forestry for fire, and Sheriff Vs Police.  Everyone here has their own protection, since emergency response times are longer up here.  My 3 dogs are my favorite.  They are very fine canines.

I found Path and Set statements were at fault for my initial problems getting PALasm working on Win98 box, but now I get "integer divide by 0" and other memory issues.  DOS mode says EMM386 is working, I know I will get it working soon.  Bummer is I will have to drive to programmer location during the weekend once ready to burn again.  I do not want to spend more money on a programmer, especially before I get this software working again.  I did buy two 7Ah wet cells though... more next week or so.  I think I'll replace all the car batteries before I spend too much on those small ones.

Found missing wire I was looking for and all but GAL is ready to run with.  I played with new OWON Scope and love it.  I used speaker wire shorted/folded bifilar pancake to pickup the pulses sent to the small chip isolator inductor used in my 9V battery HVPS.  Pickup works great and must let other lead float to pickup at all.  I see the high and low voltage out peaks are from pulses growing at resonance points as I change frequencies.  More pulse width makes them really grow lots and they follow only the negative going edge of the pulse width.  They do not take on the pulse width as I thought they would.  I was surprised I did not see sine resonance at all.  Just sweet spots where pulse amplitude was maximized while maintaining minimum pulse width.  At low frequency, harmonic pulses fill in between driven pulses, but disappear as pulse width is increased.  I'll put up some photos later.  I need to hook Scope to PC before doing this well.  I must go put in some hours else be short of funds for coming holiday days off.  I hope All are well and building this unit also.

I can already see that I must have PWM's x6.  After I try it this way, I will make that card with 4 556's, one for inboard CLK.  I have advised lab partners to leave drivers off and CLK on the Sig Gen Card, and put the PWM's and drivers on 2nd card, and FETs on last card(s).

Edit-I keep seeing your wife improving and getting better suddenly, in my mind.  I hope she is already well and home with you.

Lastly, this is a request to all who have not enjoyed a FREE AD9959 sample.  Get one!  Remember the storey of the Little Red Hen who would not share with those that did not help make bread?  Well I do and have I sent my AD9959 to Jason for his development work on his Stamp based All-in-one pulser.  I had to take a call to explein why I deserved one.  Best storey is that you are a college student working on a development project for a new Function Generator you expect to sell big.  Please take 5 minutes and fill out samples request.  Cheapo e-mail like Bob does not approve of is banned from filling out samples request unless you write the Sales Rep directly.  Do it please!

Ward

I am in the TN/GA/NC tristate region, not Colorado. Too bad you're so far away, as one thing I have a lot of is PCs. I bought a lot of ex-military servers by the pallet load from US Govt auctions. Not really fast, as compared to more modern PCs, but many of them are EMP hardened ;-)

Wifey is doing better thank you, and yes, she is back home.

I am still having a heck of a time with getting crappy test equipment from ebay that is being advertised as better than it is. My most recent aquisitions, a pair of Wavetek 859, look as though they were recovered boat anchors, rusted and corroded inside and out, yet they sold at a premium because one was advertised as working. They were photographed front view, which hid the rust on the backs and bottoms of the cases. The "working" one lights up but nothing else works. Opened up and found boards missing in the "working" unit, and the second parts unit was almost totally gutted inside. Front panel from the "working" unit has a dead LED segment - and dead keypad, parts unit entire display dead except for one digit that lights when tested - and dead keypad. Both front panels were tested on a working Wavetek 859 that I bought a while back that arrived damaged.

Bob

Bob,

one way of combating fraud on ebay is to always ask question via the ebay system.  Keep any correspondence via ebay, never switch to email.  If the seller doesn't answer your precise questions, don't bid.

If the seller replies via ebay that the equipment is in good condition, pay via paypal so if he lies, you can use the ebay / paypal system to litigate and even have the sale canceled at the buyers expense.  Paypal will immediately debit the sellers account for the full amount until the dispute is settled.

It is up to you and your experience to formulate a standard set of questions, which can be added to with specific questions.  If there are so many dishonest ebay sellers, never bid on anything until your questions have been satisfactory answered.

Earl

Edit:  there are time limits involved ebay disputes, so don't wait longer than 2 weeks of discussions with the seller via ebay's mail system, until you escalate to an ebay dispute.

@All,

I got PALasm working in Vista with DOSbox free download here:  http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1&begaming_website_session=7cf298a28f5103464d41bdfb7a78a9a9

It creates a virtual C drive which is yourDOSdirectory.  Like this it starts, enter z:> mount c c:\palasm   then enter c: to switch to it.  In my c:\palasm directory, I place this p.bat file:

path c:\exe (because the parent directory 'palasm' is now mounted as virtual c:)
set palasm=c:\ (instead of c:\palasm\exe)
palasm.exe

The bat file is because I can not get autoexec.bat to be read unless Admin Mode, which won't support an initial full screen shot that comes up briefly.  Yes I know the application should not be at the root, but this program expects it there and it is too old to fight with.

Below are the new GAL's with individual frequency shutoffs.  421x4 is positive pulse, 421n4 is negative pulse polarity GAL.  (http://)

I tried firing up my toroid briefly last week without trying to adjust Phase.  No lamps lit.  Have been too busy to try again since (since these GAL's were not done!), but I am dwelling on my HVPS loading down.  Series resistance of 22M Ohms to Gnd leaks only 13uA at 280VDC.  I used the same Film 1.5uF 1000V Blocking Cap as the HVPS Cap uses... no leaks.  But when hooked to Secondary loaded down the HVPS.  I will double verify what I saw soon... and post scope shots of the bifilar speaker wire spiral pickup I use with other lead floating.  I still am not sure about this pickup configuration.  I heard it should have a small resistor across the leads, but that shorts the signal received.  A larger one just attenuates the signal.  I will post Scope shots of this later as promised.

Oh ya, I did try many values of series resistance on the bench, not just Earl's suggested 22M.  It so happens 22M Ohm was the only value bigger than 5M I could get up through 100M without having some shipped.

(//)   Here is rough layout of a 2 GAL card with envisioned seperate CLK's and no drivers.  6 Channels and 4 power lines exit via stackable header posts that will go down to a female header to the PWM-Driver card.  I just used the .1" snap to grid to save time trying to see what DIP's could fit.  I know why you SMD guys are there, but DIP's are more hobby friendly to average Joe so I pursue this avenue.  Wire wrap is so slow for me to do.  Time is more than money.  I think I will draw up some schematics and layouts and start ordering cards or etching them.  First to test out the wire-wrapped card I already have ASAP.

Ward

@Ward,
5 Megohm could be high enough to prevent RE output power leakage, maybe even 1 Meg?
In fact, once things are working it would be interesting to know over what range this R could be varied.

Earl

hello!!!!  Ward  @ All

MERRY CHRISTMAS  TO ALLLLLLLLL.


Looks real good  keep up the good work

love and prayers to all  and to all a good  day and nite


wer   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

@All,

OK I saw an MIT video about nonintuitive thinking involving Kirchoff's Law.  I need to understand why these voltages do not add up.  Nothing is leaking.  The 22M resistor has no V drop across it.  The Secondary has no V drop across it.  I am puttung HV into CW end of Secondary, diagram below is drawn incorrectly that way.

I was using the pickup coil to test using the T650-52 Secondary then various Primaries as the inductor in my 9V Battery HVPS.  I use the pickup with other lead floating.  I see reflections after the BEMF pulse at lower freq's only happen when duty cycle is < 50%, and that these are from reflections where pulse from Primary hits end of Secondary underneath and bounces around.  If Secondary shorted, all these extra humps vanish.  The positive going PWM stops the humps from continuing, and the HVPS V out snapping up to higher voltages is the event of dropping a hump into the positive going PWM region.  The BEMF pulse snaps up much higher as each hum is pushed to the right on the Scope.  It seems like the time spacing of these reflections at ends of Secondary might reveal pulse velocity in the ring.

When I was driving closed-ended 1 of 6 Prim's at 10 to 12 O Clock position (segment #6), I see pickup shows amplification at each segment going CCW like an LMD transmisison line kind of.  When I drive Prim #3 only, CCW amplifies in phase, CW amplifies 180 out of phase and amplitudes are smaller.  By 180 out of phase, I mean I see the pulses from the pickup point down Vs up as before.  When I short the Secondary out, other side of ring same polarity pulses.

When driving Prime #3 If I apply Gnd (low impedance) to CW end of Secondary, other side of ring looks same as driven side.  If Gnd applied to CCW end of Secondary, boosts amplitude of other side of ring (6 to 12 O Clock) and makes driven side also assume opposite pulse polarity (what I am calling phase incorrectly).

When I use other inductors as the HVPS I see BEMF pulse as a single pulse.  When I drive a Prim closed-emded with this HVPS, I see a triple-headed pulse.  Not when I drive the Secondary.  Stays triple-headed when Secondary is shorted out.

The scope shot shows < 50% d-cycle, and > 50% d-c shifthing the humps off to the right.  What remains after the BEMF pulse in the Red trace is ringing from the much larger BEMF.

I got 600V p-p standing waves from Prim #1 when I drove Prim #6.  The shocks feel strange.  I did not expect such voltages from only one freq into one Prim using 9V drive with no effort to drive fast transitions at all.  I was just trying to see the attributes of closed ended drive since open ended seemed so lackluster at first try.

I will try tuning open-ended tomorrow night.  If anyone can shed light on the voltage divider I see, please fill me in.  Also the link to MIT Professor explaining how this works again would be nice.  I have it somewhere in my notes.

Ward

@All,

Here is that MIT 2 part video showing Faraday, not Kirchoff's Law always holds true.  I'm still trying to put this info in terms of DCHV I am applying Vs a pulse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqjl-qRy71w (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUWcy8HwpM (Part 2)

I spend many hours playing with DDS20 open-ended drive of a single Prim on my T650-52.  This was using 9V with MIC4427's Vs 15V just to see how it compares to the closed ended drive tests I did using my 9V Battery HVPS, letting Prim' be the inductor in this circuit.  I will post Scope shots later.

I see that the entire square wave applied is visible at the driven end of the Prim' tested, and that only the onther end can be made to resonate, maybe because driven end is forced so with driving signal.  The resonance is not perfect Sine wave, it more resembles triangle wave.  I think I see nodes too. 

At 3.15MHz, I see that other end (CW end) of single driven Prim resonates and so does the CW end of the Prime 180 degrees across the toroid.  Two Nodes?

At 5.4MHz, I see CW end of driven Prim resonates, and so does CW end of every other Prim.  Three Nodes?

In the Long'l Wave Research thread, the Dr's conclusions about solenoid coil's two resonant modes seems backwards to me.  It seems rather that the higher freq' resonance with shorter wave length must be the Quarter wavelength mode (3 quarters it seems)... and that the lower frequency of resonance must be Half wavelength mode per the longer wavelength.

I can not seem to find a single Quarter wavelength node yet, but I am still looking at  it.  I used a bean can as a Faraday Cage to see what would penetrate shielding.  I saw unexpected total blocking of the 5.4MHz signal.  No Longitudinal resonance.  At lower freq's, I see more clearly that the fast switching RE spikes always penetrate the shielding.  So I sweep 0 through 20MHz looking for Longitudinal resonance, but find none.  If I missed it, it is the resonance made by the RE spikes from Tr & Tf's.  This signal is so small Vs TEM signal.  Through the grounded can, I see RE peaks at 4.31MHz, 4.77Mhz, 6.45MHz, 8.45MHz.  Sinusoidal for sure, but these are clearly a mix of two frequencies and that appears to hinder a single sine wave from forming.

At first impressions, open-ended drive is nothing like closed ended drive.  How Bob sees no real difference between the two is a mystery still. 

It seems like I am going to need very high drive voltage and/or faster switching if I will achieve any effect at all.  Closed ended drive generates much higher voltages.

So while looking for the MIT video links, I found many references I'm my notes about "Flux cancellation", and I still do not see this in Bob's design... unless coils are to be driven from both ends... or as Jason does with his little green TPU on Youtube, that appears to drive two counterwound coils simultaneously.     Otto's Mobious configuration achieves this.     

Marco mentions in TP600 thread reply #25 that:  "BEMF can be captured with diodes and fed back into same bifilar coil, only other winding, so it cancels itself out... already tried this and can also capture BEMF in Capacitors."  OK so I can use it to keep electronics powered also if desired.   Bob Renip's Scope Shots of Clean Kicks" also shows a BEMF collection and rerouting of it to help drive next coil.

I have heard that we do not want bifilar, but others are using it... maybe not in Bob's design though.  I hear many things opposite of what they really are... some of this with me is just Dyslexia, some of it.  How will this unit work without flux cancellation?

Ward

Quote from: HumblePie on January 02, 2008, 10:35:46 AM
@All,
[snip]
I will post Scope shots later.
[snip]
Ward

Ward, please include test setups and measurement points so that the scope shots make sense.

Keep at it.  There is no replacement for scratching your head nor a hot soldering iron.
We don't tackle easy things in this shop.

Earl

Ward,

the red/yellow versus blue/purple duty cycle variation is not what I would expect.
Try fine tuning the repetition rate as well as duty cycle change to see what difference small variations in repetition rate do to the waveform.

The three peak waveform is difficult to explain from the point of view of BEMF with exponential decay.  Each peak would have successively lower amplitude.  It looks like at least two frequencies are mixing together.

All you have to do still is to have each peak grow in amplitude.

Earl

Quote from: HumblePie on January 02, 2008, 10:35:46 AM
@All,
<snip>
At first impressions, open-ended drive is nothing like closed ended drive.  How Bob sees no real difference between the two is a mystery still.  It seems like I am going to need very high drive voltage and/or faster switching if I will achieve any effect at all.  Closed ended drive generates much higher voltages.

So while looking for the MIT video links, I found many references I'm my notes about "Flux cancellation", and I still do not see this in Bob's design... unless coils are to be driven from both ends... or as Jason does with his little green TPU on Youtube, that appears to drive two counterwound coils simultaneously.     Otto's Mobious configuration achieves this.     

Marco mentions in TP600 thread reply #25 that:  "BEMF can be captured with diodes and fed back into same bifilar coil, only other winding, so it cancels itself out... already tried this and can also capture BEMF in Capacitors."  OK so I can use it to keep electronics powered also if desired.   Bob Renip's Scope Shots of Clean Kicks" also shows a BEMF collection and rerouting of it to help drive next coil.

I have heard that we do not want bifilar, but others are using it... maybe not in Bob's design though.  I hear many things opposite of what they really are... some of this with me is just Dyslexia, some of it.  How will this unit work without flux cancellation?

Ward

Very good experimentation Ward. Good to see you are noting some of the oddities in multiphase coils on a single toroidal core. It looks like you have also noted that the responses are directional in relation to drive coil polarity and direction of rotation. It is the direction of wind and direction of applied drive pulses that cause this as the shock wave propagates down each primary when pulsed. And yes, the intent of the 2 sets of 3 phase primaries is so that you can drive the 180 degree opposing primaries in phased pairs for even more result. Sort of like a multi-pole 3 phase motor.

I never said that driving open ended was the same as closed loop. All I said was that the same effects could be observed, but obviously the drive requirement method for open ended is much different. Open ended drive still requires very vast transitions, but applied potential (voltage) must be a lot higher to get the same effect. Whereas closed loop works at much lower voltages, but is more critical to pulse width if power waste is to be kept to a minimum. Transition times are key in both drive modes, as it is the transition that creates the desired shock wave that will appear on other windings as "kicks".

What you will want to do it to adjust the timing of the applied pulses so that these "kicks" become additive. You will find this occurs in multiple points with varying numbers of nodes as timing interval is decreased (apparent frequency increased). When you add the other subharmonic drive channels, you will begin to see patterns develop in the common output as viewed on your pickup probe. You will not get the same effect from a single pulse source.

Bob

@Earl & Bob, & All,

Sorry for the progress slow down.  I've been freaking out.  I am a scattered mind, but the fragments replay constantly and build into bigger facts and understandings and things I must answer for myself.  This is deep with distraction.  I've spent more time worrying about which to do than trying each to see what is what.  I am sorry I am so slow to get RMF.

I promised more Scope shots of the pickup and I will deliver, however I have little time to do side tasks that are not related to getting RMF.  I noticed the 'interval' acts like frequency.  I was slow to adsorb what I saw.  At lower freq's, I saw 49% duty cycle have these hump / reflections off Secondary ends unless I shorted Sec'.  At 51% duty, they vanished.  At higher freq's they came back to >50% d-cycle.  I will document better next Scope shots. 

I seem able to make only 25nS pulse widths when I tested Dirac's Delta Function high pass with a Tektronix 465 100MHz Scope with 100MHz 10X probes.  Same setup now shows me 50nS width with OWON 25MHz with 60MHz 10X probes.  Back then, I did side by side HCT Vs ACT and saw that HCT hit Vcc, ACT hit only 3V.  I retried all last night and verified that the MIC4427 input high thrshold is 2.60V and ACT seems able.  However, I see that the high-pass filtered spike HATES decouple Caps at all on the MIC4427.  Changes perfect spike shape to spike with shelf on back end.  Yes I need to show Scope shots.  I will next post.

Why was I distracted with this?  High-pass pulses are the only clean pulses I have been able to make.  My square waves ring from fast switching just as they did on critically fast ECL PCB's I once worked on.  Speed = ring.  The high-pass need only stand up to high voltage to be better. 

My Prim's are 5.655 m long and I hear loud and clear that pulse should cease before it reaches end of the Prim.  Open-ended, I see voltage applied yields non-linear results.  More in yields much more out.  I test high-pass on MIC 15V output next then try to tune open-ended agian with cleaner pulses so that the Longitudinal component may at least be made to resonate. 

Now I see what the very fast and strong Diodes are for.  These would protect the high-pass from standing waves.

It seems that the complex ringing impedes the Longitudinal sinusoid from forming fully with shielded pickup.

This powder toroid 4/2/1x recipe may not be ideal, but it serves a purpose I know. 

About the HV Bias.  I need to test more, but it seems that DC produces no voltage gradient and that is what is strange in the static voltage divider.  A changing voltage may be required.  Modulated.  Like my handy SM-10 1000V Power Supplies can do with their 0 to +5V input controlling 0 to 1000V VDC out.  Don't know frequency response yet, but I hope for 60Hz!  However, taking Secondary out with just HVPS Cap resistance, and blocking Cap, I have to short resistance to get Blocking Cap to charge, then when I pull short, they never equalize.  Weird.  Kirchoff again?  Will post data later.

Flux cancellation.  Phase cancellation.  At lower resonance band, 2 nodes, 1/4 wavelengths assumed, I am not sure.  If so toroid is acting as if circumference is way bigger than it is.  2.3GHz wave fits circumference.  One freq, open-ended is FM jammer in 98MHz band.  Strange.  If I search the jammed freq's in FM from 3MH drive one Prim, I am sure there is learning to be done. 

The pulse width interval is the active portion of pulse and it seems like it acts as its own faster frequency / shorter wave length.

Ward

@All,

I know why SM likes tubes now.  The Longitudinal resonance demands this.  Offering the Dirac Delta Function impulse to a FET does not work per Gate to Source Capacitance is perfect pathway to Gnd.  Nothing reveals how worthless IRF840 FET's are than this test did.  IRF820 is the better choice.  I could not even see the TEM resonance I had proven before.

Ward

@All,

Ward sees the light.  Still praying and cleansing ha ha.  Really.

All that seeks truth comes from GOD.   That does not mean it is STILL GOOD!  Remember that.  If you read the New Testement, just a little, you will find instructions YOU are seeking for your life path.  This toroid study is not so important I now believe.  These New Testement instructions were meant for YOU! 

Ya YOU!  Do not evaluate with haste.  EVERYTHING is not as it seems with GOD.  There is none higher than GOD Almighty, Jesus Christ the Lord Our Savior.  If GOD wants me to study this stuff, GOD will make me understand that.

God Blesses, Jesus Saves!  Remember that.   :)  So does Bruce ha ha  ???


Ward

Quote from: HumblePie on January 23, 2008, 01:02:40 PM
@All,

Ward sees the light.  Still praying and cleansing ha ha.  Really.

All that seeks truth comes from GOD.   That does not mean it is STILL GOOD!  Remember that.  If you read the New Testement, just a little, you will find instructions YOU are seeking for your life path.  This toroid study is not so important I now believe.  These New Testement instructions were meant for YOU! 

Ya YOU!  Do not evaluate with haste.  EVERYTHING is not as it seems with GOD.  There is none higher than GOD Almighty, Jesus Christ the Lord Our Savior.  If GOD wants me to study this stuff, GOD will make me understand that.

God Blesses, Jesus Saves!  Remember that.   :)  So does Bruce ha ha  ???


Ward

Congratulations Ward, and welcome to the most exciting ride of your life!  Jason and I are very, very happy for you.   ;D

It is indeed life changing and something to be very excited about.  "All things become new.." 
(Psalm 150:6)

I made the same decision to serve the Lord Jesus, just over 25 years ago.  He will never let you down, and remains faithful, even when we are faithless.  Never substitute knowing him, for the religions of men (of which there are many).  Read his Word a bit every day and ask him for guidance.

@ All

I was going to send this as a PM, but I thought perhaps someone reading this could also use a little bit of encouragement.   ;)

Alright, back to firing up the BB coil...Where's Eldarion? .... LOL   ;) :D ;D

Cheers,

Bruce

I'm here!  ;D

Bruce and Ward, I do appreciate knowing I am among other believers; seems like we are a bit few and far between these days. ;)  Thank you for the encouragement.

Now back to the Boyce system: :D

As Bruce is aware, I have already fixed the timing issue with my controller, to no avail.  I have not been idle, however!

Now I can fire up the magnetic bias very efficiently and to any level I want, thanks to a new switching power regulator that I recently built.  It is extremely voltage-stable, and can handle up to 3 amps at any voltage from 0.6 to the supply voltage--perfect for the magnetic bias coil.

I am in the process of rewiring the coil so that it only has three primaries.  No matter what I do, I cannot bring the pulse rise/fall time to anything less than about 20ns, so my only other option was to increase the electrical length of the primaries.  I do not believe this to be a issue; 6 primaries was a bit of an experiment to begin with, and we really need a larger core for more than 3 primaries to become practical.  (It can be done, but would require $$$$ for custom MOSFET drivers that can switch in under 5ns and source/sink more than 9A of current, not to mention the RF MOSFETs, maybe even GaSFETs, and all the associated PCBs, GHz wiring, etc.)  At least this is my current take on it, time will tell if I am correct.

A quick question: Which side of the primary should I be connecting the MOSFET switches to, the clockwise end or the counterclockwise end (viewed from the top)?  I am thinking the clockwise end should be connected to the MOSFET and the counterclockwise end should be connected to the DC power supply, allowing the pulse's wavefront to travel counterclockwise down the primary, but I am not sure on this.  Since I have it all apart now, I want to connect it back up properly! ;) ::)

Eldarion

Hey guys, I am new to this forum and thread and would like to say hi ... (I am a christian as well, I think between us we may be able to solve this thing .. ;-)

My approach (rightly or wrongly)  has been to to wind the secondary and three primaries (120 deg) on a Ferrite ring magnet (which I will probably partially demagnetize as per Sweet's VTA).
For the pulse timing I am using a Propellor development board and have programmed in three pulse trains 120 deg apart and have configured it so that I can vary the pulse width on all three signals at the same time ... from what I understand the pulse width should be 500ns .. 1us, is that correct?

Would love to hear from you guys as to what you think of this approach ...

Cheers,
Bernie