Dear All,
Has anyone ever attempted a replication of Jan Cack?s KISS PMM?
These two links may offer some help for those not familiar with it:
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/janpcack.asp
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/johnself.asp
If anyone has managed to replicate it, what kind of difficulties did you get in to?
Thanks,
Mikey
Also just noticed this link on the same site as well. Provides for a better visual.
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/JanPCackFemm.htm
Mikey
Seriously, has no one replicated this?
Am I missing something obvious here? Does this idea not look promising?
Yes, someone did. It didn't work.
Eric
Wow!! Now that's some setup!! Shame it didn't work.
Thanks Eric, I appreciate your reply.
Will save me time going down a blind alley where I could spend it on other stuff that has potential.
Thanks again!!
Mike
Now, Eric, that's a really good job you've done. It seems, however, you're showing the device taken apart. Could it be that proper adjustment of the missing stator magnets is the key? I'm reading how it has been for @RHEAD100 when replicating @zpenzif's device. Could you play a little more with these magnets until they get into their favorable positions?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&rls=com.microsoft%3Ade%3AIE-Address&q=spiridonov+not+working&lr=
only to ASK the google "the right way" and so
he find
working
and
NOT working
www.pese.cjb.net
I have started on this replication as it been on my TO-DO list for a while.
Just now waiting for correct magnets to arrive from Germany and some RC bearings.
Main bits are cut out and waiting. Really pleased how the CNC machine handled the Cogs, must admit :)
Stuck to Jan Cack?s design ratio of 4:1 and using 72 teeth on Main wheel, 18 on the Stator Wheels.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss1.jpg&hash=48b866f700cafacec6d199967057310b5f816fef)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss2.jpg&hash=33488be508cd70528c514cc4a0a93debcd0f495a)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss3.jpg&hash=a34246d716b8925054e5b2a5b92cef173c9553f6)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss4.jpg&hash=6fdea3c1fdaf3a9f83364b937e344e1cb600b33b)
Will let ya now if anything exciting hapens :)
Cheers
Sean
Very cool setup.
I guess you have access to a NC mill or a plexiglas laser cutter?
Good luck in your ongoing replication.
Opps, I just read that you had a CNC machine. Really cool milling.
Sean,
That's truly an amazing setup!!
I shall be keeping my fingers crossed for you and look forward to your results.
Just out of interest, was your CNC machine expensive?
Cheers,
Mike
Quote from: mikey on October 22, 2007, 09:07:33 AM
Dear All,
Has anyone ever attempted a replication of Jan Cack?s KISS PMM?
These two links may offer some help for those not familiar with it:
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/janpcack.asp
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/johnself.asp
If anyone has managed to replicate it, what kind of difficulties did you get in to?
Thanks,
Mikey
Similar to Jan P. Cack device shown working here?
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg
Rotor magnets rotation around their axis and translation relative to the stators appears along the same principle.
Eric, Sean, some very nice workmanship there.
Thanks for posting.
Hi,
this video ( http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg ) is faked, see this comment on it here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3245.msg50812#msg50812
Gyula
Quote from: pese on October 26, 2007, 09:15:50 AM
www.pese.cjb.net
What kind of bullshit spam virus link is this!?!?!?
Stop posting crap stuff like that. It's totaly annoying.
Quote from: gyulasun on October 29, 2007, 07:36:24 AM
Hi,
this video ( http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg ) is faked, see this comment on it here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3245.msg50812#msg50812
Gyula
Hi Gyula,
I saw that post but I have to disagree. If you use full screen and go frame by frame one would notice:
The center post and pulley is stationary.(e,g. frames around 00:07)
The base of the lego set is sitting on top of a desk.
The 4 rotating magnets are all interconnected via the bands/strings, from their own free to rotate pullies to the center stationary one. Similar to a planetary gear system, with an extra "planet" ring
Because they are interconnected their relative motion is not the same as one just one magnet against another single one. This is a far more complex magnetic interaction system. I?ve also looked at the Lego blocks that are sold with magnets in them. Each has 2 small neo rods, oriented vertically and placed inside the 2 plastic round cylinders in the underside of the blocks. Those who have played with them before would know what I mean. Assuming from the video he used the standard magnetic blocks of this type, then there are a total of 16 magnets in this setup. Again this is a complex magnetic interaction system.
could be a colored (transclear type) or a sets of 2 mini blocks
see pics http://stores.ebay.com/iLegos_Specialty-Parts_W0QQfsubZ119513819QQfrsrcZ1
Back to the motor.
Since the center post/pulley is not rotating I cannot see a function of a motor there in the center.
The Lego base (blue) is thin and so is the green rotor base, with no other wholes or possibilities of a motor shaft through it anywhere else to impart motion on the green base through the shaft.
If there is a motor and to get such relative rotation between the two bases, it would have to be mounted between them in the thin gap, with some gearing attached offset to the center (since the center post/pulley are stationary) or something else not visible on the video view.
Maybe dadido3 could come in and clarify.
Thanks
Quote from: gyulasun on October 29, 2007, 07:36:24 AM
Hi,
this video ( http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg ) is faked, see this comment on it here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3245.msg50812#msg50812
Gyula
No, no. The link you quote cannot serve as proof the lego motor is faked. It may or may not be but the comments "disproving" it are nothing more than gibberish,
@All,
Does anyone remeber a guy who was selling plans for a similar magnet motor on ebay? See attached.
O.S. The craftsmanship of the two motors in progress here is impressive. Wish you best of luck.
Hi mikestocks2006,
Well, you may be right... I cannot tell for sure. Nevertheless the rotor strangely decelerates between 00:05 and 00:07 seconds and during this the four rectangular blocks (in which the magnets are) at the ends of rotor arms rotate also strangely as if they were lagging behind, as if the interconnecting bands/strings were slippy during that time... then suddenly the rotor speeds up.
I wonder what causes these fluctuations? I would expect a relatively gradual and continuous acceleration all the time till reaching full speed.
Yes it is a good idea to invite the builder, dadido3 to this forum.
rgds, Gyula
Quote from: gyulasun on October 29, 2007, 03:24:19 PM
Hi mikestocks2006,
Well, you may be right... I cannot tell for sure. Nevertheless the rotor strangely decelerates between 00:05 and 00:07 seconds and during this the four rectangular blocks (in which the magnets are) at the ends of rotor arms rotate also strangely as if they were lagging behind, as if the interconnecting bands/strings were slippy during that time... then suddenly the rotor speeds up.
I wonder what causes these fluctuations? I would expect a relatively gradual and continuous acceleration all the time till reaching full speed.
Yes it is a good idea to invite the builder, dadido3 to this forum.
rgds, Gyula
Similar fluctuations are seen in @xpenzif's video. These are due to the imperfections of the fields and they are more in favor than not of these devices being real.
Quote from: gyulasun on October 29, 2007, 03:24:19 PM
Hi mikestocks2006,
Well, you may be right... I cannot tell for sure. Nevertheless the rotor strangely decelerates between 00:05 and 00:07 seconds and during this the four rectangular blocks (in which the magnets are) at the ends of rotor arms rotate also strangely as if they were lagging behind, as if the interconnecting bands/strings were slippy during that time... then suddenly the rotor speeds up.
I wonder what causes these fluctuations? I would expect a relatively gradual and continuous acceleration all the time till reaching full speed.
Yes it is a good idea to invite the builder, dadido3 to this forum.
rgds, Gyula
Hi Gyula,
Yes, I?ve noticed that too, however, an initial deceleration (or a series of them) can be explained, as the rotor revs up:
Assuming this is real, and due to the number of magnets involved, (as high as 16) there is a continuously changing composite field interaction as the center assembly rotates.
There is also a composite so called ?sticky spot? and as the assembly reaches the point of max ?stickiness? it is expected to decelerate, and as it manages to pass it, it should accelerate and so on. As long as the net effect is positive gain it should cycle up to the point of max air resistance and to the max ability of the magnetic field interactions to catch up due to lag effects.
Ofc this is one speculative explanation based on the limited visual information from that one video. Surely there can be others.
I?ve visited the local ToysRUs store, they do carry a Lego line but nothing with the bricks including magnets as it apparently shown in the video. Even their MindStorm kits here don?t seem to have these magnet blocks. (they do have the pullies though). This set up should be easy to build, and see if it performs if the identical proper parts can be had.
Yep, any input from dadido3, especially on the blocks containing magnets, and the bands used, flexible vs inflexible etc would be helpful.
Thanks
Quote from: mikestocks2006 on October 29, 2007, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: gyulasun on October 29, 2007, 03:24:19 PM
Hi mikestocks2006,
Well, you may be right... I cannot tell for sure. Nevertheless the rotor strangely decelerates between 00:05 and 00:07 seconds and during this the four rectangular blocks (in which the magnets are) at the ends of rotor arms rotate also strangely as if they were lagging behind, as if the interconnecting bands/strings were slippy during that time... then suddenly the rotor speeds up.
I wonder what causes these fluctuations? I would expect a relatively gradual and continuous acceleration all the time till reaching full speed.
Yes it is a good idea to invite the builder, dadido3 to this forum.
rgds, Gyula
Hi Gyula,
Yes, I?ve noticed that too, however, an initial deceleration (or a series of them) can be explained, as the rotor revs up:
Assuming this is real, and due to the number of magnets involved, (as high as 16) there is a continuously changing composite field interaction as the center assembly rotates.
There is also a composite so called ?sticky spot? and as the assembly reaches the point of max ?stickiness? it is expected to decelerate, and as it manages to pass it, it should accelerate and so on. As long as the net effect is positive gain it should cycle up to the point of max air resistance and to the max ability of the magnetic field interactions to catch up due to lag effects.
Ofc this is one speculative explanation based on the limited visual information from that one video. Surely there can be others.
I?ve visited the local ToysRUs store, they do carry a Lego line but nothing with the bricks including magnets as it apparently shown in the video. Even their MindStorm kits here don?t seem to have these magnet blocks. (they do have the pullies though). This set up should be easy to build, and see if it performs if the identical proper parts can be had.
Yep, any input from dadido3, especially on the blocks containing magnets, and the bands used, flexible vs inflexible etc would be helpful.
Thanks
See, I don't expect the lego setup would include every detail we see in the video. The magnets are supplied separately, I guess. Of course, @dodido3's would be much appreciated but maybe he doesn't even know of this discussion group. Will try to send him a pm via youtube.
Quick update here. The magnets I wanted from Germany never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to my email, so used some rod magnets that I do not think are long enough.
But anyway, picture of the finished rig, excuse the Glue Gun attachment job, but it does the job of holding them in place.
Anyway it did not self spin, but fun making.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss7.jpg&hash=d7e226aef46b558a6b5ad9ea1d1a7b14cf956391)
Cheers
Sean.
Sean, your work seems impeccable mechanically. However, no need to mention, what?s at play here are the magnetic fields and that?s been a problem with all these devices. Thus, I don?t believe it?s only the length of the rod magnets that?s problematic here. Do you have or could you possibly borrow a gauss meter to have these fields measured? You may place the device on the spindle of a milling machine, measure the induction at small increments and then plot it so that a quantitative picture is obtained of these fields. You may do this separately for the planets on the one hand and the sun on the other. Also, it may be worth trying magnets other than neo?s as well as non-magnetized steel pieces of the proper shape as the parts making the sun. Probably you may try using steel pieces of the right size for the stator (respectively, the rotor) in your Torbay replication.
Quote from: mikey on October 22, 2007, 10:01:27 AM
Also just noticed this link on the same site as well. Provides for a better visual.
http://www.fdp.nu/cack_movie/JanPCackFemm.htm
Mikey
The problems with FEMM simulation is that if you "house" the magnetic device inside a small circle, as the animation shows, you don't have the correct magnetic event to calculate the correct torque - no matter how high the resolution you have or how many samples you measures in one revolution. The magnetic fields which is facing the outer circle (the "housing") are not all taken into account, and they are simply "absorbed" so the magnets closest to this circle is not symetrical. As we all know, all magnets are in real life allways symmetrical in the way they display their magnetic fields. In case of a FEMM simulation this is not allways true, hence you sometimes get positive or negative (Other than zero) torque.
In practice, when the device is made, it will therefor not work.
If you get this FEMM simulation from the inventor, and modify the housing outside it to a much bigger one, you'll probably see that the total torque in the device is approaching a zero value.
I have myself a small magnetmotor simulation that provides 7Nm in average. Very exiting at the first, but when playing with the allowed space to work in (The housing), this torque alters to more or less as I decrease or increase the housing around it.
Br.
Vidar
Quote from: CLaNZeR on November 23, 2007, 09:23:30 AM
Quick update here. The magnets I wanted from Germany never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to my email, so used some rod magnets that I do not think are long enough.
But anyway, picture of the finished rig, excuse the Glue Gun attachment job, but it does the job of holding them in place.
Anyway it did not self spin, but fun making.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fkiss7.jpg&hash=d7e226aef46b558a6b5ad9ea1d1a7b14cf956391)
Cheers
Sean.
Hi Sean,
It's a shame it didn't work, especially after your superb craftsmanship!! You deserved better!! But at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
Best Regards,
Mike
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 05:23:47 PM
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Yes, let's explore further on an idea that will never work. I agree with CLaNZeR - the idea is now ruled out. Let's try something else. A free spinning wheel (without any magnets) are the closest to OU we have on this forum - in fact, magnets has this far only been the major obstacle to free spin. When are we going to see sometning real?
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 05:23:47 PM
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Yes, let's explore further on an idea that will never work. I agree with CLaNZeR - the idea is now ruled out. Let's try something else. A free spinning wheel (without any magnets) are the closest to OU we have on this forum - in fact, magnets has this far only been the major obstacle to free spin. When are we going to see sometning real?
Vidar
@CLaNZeR never said the idea is now ruled out. He didn't even use the right magnets which he says he wanted from Germany and never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to his email, so he used some rod magnets that are not long enough. Like I said, now that the groundwork is laid, further exploration is necessary.
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 05:23:47 PM
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Yes, let's explore further on an idea that will never work. I agree with CLaNZeR - the idea is now ruled out. Let's try something else. A free spinning wheel (without any magnets) are the closest to OU we have on this forum - in fact, magnets has this far only been the major obstacle to free spin. When are we going to see sometning real?
Vidar
@CLaNZeR never said the idea is now ruled out. He didn't even use the right magnets which he says he wanted from Germany and never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to his email, so he used some rod magnets that are not long enough. Like I said, now that the groundwork is laid, further exploration is necessary.
Sorry, my mistake. I DISagree - some spelling errors there - oops.
It's however very fun to construct and build things - at least with some nice tools.
Rod-magnets shouldn't be worse than any other magnet. They are all symatrical in magnetism, and will allways pull as hard as they push. I can't see any reason whatsoever why this magnetmotor should run. But that's me. A FEMM simulation will give hope, but will also lie due to some limitations in the management of magnetic flux lines whithin the given space allowed for the simulation to run. Hello folks, wake up! We are blowing on our own sails here!
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 05:23:47 PM
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Yes, let's explore further on an idea that will never work. I agree with CLaNZeR - the idea is now ruled out. Let's try something else. A free spinning wheel (without any magnets) are the closest to OU we have on this forum - in fact, magnets has this far only been the major obstacle to free spin. When are we going to see sometning real?
Vidar
@CLaNZeR never said the idea is now ruled out. He didn't even use the right magnets which he says he wanted from Germany and never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to his email, so he used some rod magnets that are not long enough. Like I said, now that the groundwork is laid, further exploration is necessary.
Sorry, my mistake. I DISagree - some spelling errors there - oops.
It's however very fun to construct and build things - at least with some nice tools.
Rod-magnets shouldn't be worse than any other magnet. They are all symatrical in magnetism, and will allways pull as hard as they push. I can't see any reason whatsoever why this magnetmotor should run. But that's me. A FEMM simulation will give hope, but will also lie due to some limitations in the management of magnetic flux lines whithin the given space allowed for the simulation to run. Hello folks, wake up! We are blowing on our own sails here!
Vidar
Like I've said many times, Maxwell3D should be better than FEMM but either one is too idealized of a simulation to reflect the reality of the pretty unequal fields exhibited by magnets having ostensibly the same forms.
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 08:08:20 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on November 23, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on November 23, 2007, 05:23:47 PM
QuoteBut at least this idea has definitively been ruled out now, which is a shame.
The above statement is premature. This idea hasn't been ruled out yet. Now that the groundwork has been laid, it needs further exploration.
Yes, let's explore further on an idea that will never work. I agree with CLaNZeR - the idea is now ruled out. Let's try something else. A free spinning wheel (without any magnets) are the closest to OU we have on this forum - in fact, magnets has this far only been the major obstacle to free spin. When are we going to see sometning real?
Vidar
@CLaNZeR never said the idea is now ruled out. He didn't even use the right magnets which he says he wanted from Germany and never turned up as they did not even bother to reply to his email, so he used some rod magnets that are not long enough. Like I said, now that the groundwork is laid, further exploration is necessary.
Sorry, my mistake. I DISagree - some spelling errors there - oops.
It's however very fun to construct and build things - at least with some nice tools.
Rod-magnets shouldn't be worse than any other magnet. They are all symatrical in magnetism, and will allways pull as hard as they push. I can't see any reason whatsoever why this magnetmotor should run. But that's me. A FEMM simulation will give hope, but will also lie due to some limitations in the management of magnetic flux lines whithin the given space allowed for the simulation to run. Hello folks, wake up! We are blowing on our own sails here!
Vidar
Like I've said many times, Maxwell3D should be better than FEMM but either one is too idealized of a simulation to reflect the reality of the pretty unequal fields exhibited by magnets having ostensibly the same forms.
The problem is not the ideal condition. In an ideal condition, a magnet motor should not work. In FEMM there is a none-ideal condition allowing flaws that changes the magnetic rules in a manner that can in fact simulate a working magnetmotor. I am not familiar with Maxwell 3D, so I can just assume that this program is better to predict magnetic problems in real life. @Jdo300 on this forum has Maxwell 3D, maybe he want to comment Maxwell 3D. Do you also have Maxwell 3D, Omnibus? It had been nice if one of you guys could take your time to examine the model presented in the initial post here. It had been interesting to see how Maxwell 3D handle this in comparison to FEMM - I mean if both simulates non-zero output or not. :)
Vidar
I analysed this in femm, the torque generated in 1 turn is 0.0, it balances out exactly. I don't think it is very interesting design anymore either, Just the amount of bearings needed, the gear wheels etc. produce a lot of friction. Nice handy work from Clanzer.
I have more or less given up on these simulations because I don?t see them serving any useful purpose. Aside from the fact that FEMM is an obviously unreliable simulation to begin with. I'd never even consider using it. In them the magnetic field around a body of a given form is always assumed to be of exactly the same form as the magnetic field around another body of the same form. That?s not the case in a real experiment and it makes a hell of a lot of difference. I?d rather do what I already proposed above for Sean to do?carry out thorough measurements of the profile of the field with a gauss meter to see what the actual form of the magnetic field is of a construction made mechanically perfectly symmetric. The problems with these devices are the huge discrepancies in the actual fields in ostensibly perfectly manufactured contraptions.
Quote from: acp on November 24, 2007, 04:14:16 AM
I analysed this in femm, the torque generated in 1 turn is 0.0, it balances out exactly. I don't think it is very interesting design anymore either, Just the amount of bearings needed, the gear wheels etc. produce a lot of friction. Nice handy work from Clanzer.
Show it. Show that simulation and let Stefan or @tao analyze it if they want, just out of curiosity, not that it is of any importance.
The closest I got OU is the link here:
http://www.geocities.com/k_pullo/SMOT15_PM3-3.htm
This thing provides allways positive torque in average, in FEMM. I have downloaded Maxwell SV - a free 2D version, so I will just see what this application says about it.
Vidar
Here it is.
Quote from: Low-Q on November 24, 2007, 05:26:32 AM
The closest I got OU is the link here:
http://www.geocities.com/k_pullo/SMOT15_PM3-3.htm
Thx Vidar
That on is on the CNC machine as I type :)
Gone for a 120mm Rotor with Rotor magnets 20mm in length which allows 16 of them to fit nicely with a 6 degree tilt.
Wanted to use the magnets I already have here, but looks like I will need to order some stator magnets. Will start a new thread when the Rotor cutout and mounted :)
@Omnibus, sorry mate I do not have a gauss meter, but as acp correctly say the friction and losses in the bearings and the Polycarbonate cogs is huge anyway. But even with the Rod magnets I used, there is not enough pull or push to even move a few mm. It just kind of balances itself out.
I will come back and play with it more another day, but for now I want to go for some really loose bearings on my next design and stick to single rotors.
Thanks for the feedback guys
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on November 24, 2007, 07:01:24 AM
Quote from: Low-Q on November 24, 2007, 05:26:32 AM
The closest I got OU is the link here:
http://www.geocities.com/k_pullo/SMOT15_PM3-3.htm
Thx Vidar
That on is on the CNC machine as I type :)
Gone for a 120mm Rotor with Rotor magnets 20mm in length which allows 16 of them to fit nicely with a 6 degree tilt.
Wanted to use the magnets I already have here, but looks like I will need to order some stator magnets. Will start a new thread when the Rotor cutout and mounted :)
@Omnibus, sorry mate I do not have a gauss meter, but as acp correctly say the friction and losses in the bearings and the Polycarbonate cogs is huge anyway. But even with the Rod magnets I used, there is not enough pull or push to even move a few mm. It just kind of balances itself out.
I will come back and play with it more another day, but for now I want to go for some really loose bearings on my next design and stick to single rotors.
Thanks for the feedback guys
Cheers
Sean.
What about needle bearings?
Vidar
Quote from: acp on November 24, 2007, 06:35:44 AM
Here it is.
Thanks :)
The KissMotor:
The average torque on the satelites are 0.017Nm.
The average torque on the rotor is 0.68Nm
If we consider the tolerances, the result is practically zero.
Vidar
There's this idea on Steorn that was inspired by the Cack device but is considerably different in many ways. I wonder what a FEMM or Maxwell model would reveal about it?
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687
Hi all -
ClanZer - You are the MAN! I've greatly enjoyed all of your replications of various devices. Your enginering and construction skills are superior!
This idea is dead? Looks like a more practical idea along the same lines as the WhipMag.
What about adjusting air gap? Magnet size/strength? Magnet spacing? Rotor weight?
Changing gearing to bearing based rather than tooth based? Stator magnets placed atop bearing (like a skate bearing) placed in a wheel (like a skateboard wheel) contacting the sun gear. Providing a smooth motion - no impact with tooth losses. Much less friction, yes?
Maybe manual starting speed of "x" m/s needed to get it going?
Additional "kick" magnet placed somewhere to give it the 1 spot of overbalance?
It's just with ALL these type of devices there are SO many variables one could mess with.
Should some of these be examined? Or are you/we SURE this type of configuration would NOT work NO MATTER what?
Sure is a coooool idea. I would be inspired to mess around with it if the design is possible.
(Thanks for sharing all your awesome replications ClanZer)
CH
I don't think alternating gap, magnet size, rotor weight will change anything. The torque is independent on mass, but mass influence on acceleration (If it is torque). I did experiment with different magnets and airgaps, but nothing changed the fact that this idea is a dead end.
Magnet motors in general is nothing more than dead ends. Devices that don't work.
br.
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 04:36:34 PM
I don't think alternating gap, magnet size, rotor weight will change anything. The torque is independent on mass, but mass influence on acceleration (If it is torque). I did experiment with different magnets and airgaps, but nothing changed the fact that this idea is a dead end.
Magnet motors in general is nothing more than dead ends. Devices that don't work.
br.
Vidar
As your overall participation in the discussions indicates, you're not qualified enough to make such pronouncements. Learn more before allowing yourself the audacity to teach others.
You are wrong @omnibus. I am more than enough qualified to discuss topics here. But this is not the topic in this thread. So if you don't have other comments than comment me and my skills, you can stop writing, but quote your words to yourself !!
Discussing me or other persons are definitly not constructive, and should on the other hand be a good reason for you to be excluded from this forum!! >:(
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
You are wrong @omnibus. I am more than enough qualified to discuss topics here. But this is not the topic in this thread. So if you don't have other comments than comment me and my skills, you can stop writing, but quote your words to yourself !!
Discussing me or other persons are definitly not constructive, and should on the other hand be a good reason for you to be excluded from this forum!! >:(
Vidar
You should go away and not continue to clutter the discussion with incompetent blabber.
Quote from: Omnibus on February 21, 2008, 05:40:31 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
You are wrong @omnibus. I am more than enough qualified to discuss topics here. But this is not the topic in this thread. So if you don't have other comments than comment me and my skills, you can stop writing, but quote your words to yourself !!
Discussing me or other persons are definitly not constructive, and should on the other hand be a good reason for you to be excluded from this forum!! >:(
Vidar
You should go away and not continue to clutter the discussion with incompetent blabber.
Maybe you should take a look at your own writings first, and then come back to tell who is blabbering here. Sadly there is no moderators on this forum to exclude such behaviours of yours. Grow up!
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on February 21, 2008, 05:40:31 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
You are wrong @omnibus. I am more than enough qualified to discuss topics here. But this is not the topic in this thread. So if you don't have other comments than comment me and my skills, you can stop writing, but quote your words to yourself !!
Discussing me or other persons are definitly not constructive, and should on the other hand be a good reason for you to be excluded from this forum!! >:(
Vidar
You should go away and not continue to clutter the discussion with incompetent blabber.
Maybe you should take a look at your own writings first, and then come back to tell who is blabbering here. Sadly there is no moderators on this forum to exclude such behaviours of yours. Grow up!
Vidar
Moderators should take care of the likes of you, impudently imposing their own confusion on others.
Quote from: Omnibus on February 21, 2008, 05:58:37 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: Omnibus on February 21, 2008, 05:40:31 PM
Quote from: Low-Q on February 21, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
You are wrong @omnibus. I am more than enough qualified to discuss topics here. But this is not the topic in this thread. So if you don't have other comments than comment me and my skills, you can stop writing, but quote your words to yourself !!
Discussing me or other persons are definitly not constructive, and should on the other hand be a good reason for you to be excluded from this forum!! >:(
Vidar
You should go away and not continue to clutter the discussion with incompetent blabber.
Maybe you should take a look at your own writings first, and then come back to tell who is blabbering here. Sadly there is no moderators on this forum to exclude such behaviours of yours. Grow up!
Vidar
Moderators should take care of the likes of you, impudently imposing their own confusion on others.
Grow up, and learn common mannerliness before you continue. ;)
vidar,
before you continue, have you not heard, cop has already been proven to be wrong. just ask omni.
smot has already proven it. don't you understand yet.
lol
sam
Quote from: supersam on February 21, 2008, 10:39:44 PM
vidar,
before you continue, have you not heard, cop has already been proven to be wrong. just ask omni.
smot has already proven it. don't you understand yet.
lol
sam
So, what do you prove with this little nothing you've written?
I'm relatively new to this stuff, so please forgive my ignorance, but what if there was an angle to the central magnets ?
all the way around of course.