Would it be possible to directly extract electrical energy from living plants?
Obviously electricity can be extracted from soil by using the electrochemical reactions between your electrode material (copper and zinc for example) and the acidity of the soil (and its related electrolytes), basically turning your patch of soil into a chemical battery. Also, "ground radio" em signals can be picked up and the energy stored by using antennae in the ground. But that's not what I had in mind here.
Imagine sticking two electrodes into the stem of a living plant and just leaving them there. Imagine that the plant continues to grow. And imagine you now attach the elecgrodes to a LED and it just lights up and keeps giving off light...
I have not tried it yet, but it might be possible...
Obviously it will work in plants with sufficiently acid sap, just like the well known "lemon battery" works, but that is simply a chemical battery again...
I assume most plants will not survive implantation of a copper electrode as copper is quite poisonous to most organisms in high concentrations.
And in most living plants with acidic sap, the sap is acidic for a good reason, and the plant will no longer function properly if the acidity is altered drastically in any way, including by cause of chemical reaction with a copper electrode.
So perhaps if we use a material that does not react drastically with the plants chemistry, we might keep the plant alive and still get some form of output.
So perhaps if we use carbon, or stainless steel, or something like that... ?
It is also conceivable to use selective "breeding" in an attempt to get plants to cope with implanted electrodes of certain materials...
(for example grow some type of plant in soil that is intentionally "polluted" with copper or whichever metal you want to use, and select the ones that survive best, and do this gneration after generation after generation, to get plants that actually live well with higher copper concentrations.)
These plants should then be more suitable to implant that metal as elecrodes, and could possibly evn utilise the copper in their internal processes.
Does anyone have any thoughts or additional information on this idea?
Hmm, pretty cool idea. I don't think small plants would give much practical energy, but perhaps trees might(still, it wont solve the crisis).
Since trees get energy from the sun, I don't see how this should not be tappable. Maybe you could have a tree recharger, where you hook up your rechargeable batteries to the tree and they charge up. Or perhaps you could plant lots and lots of trees in your garden, and use them to power your house.
Wow, this is beginning to get cooler and cooler! Perhaps this idea can be used to save the trees, since everbody would be planting them for energy...
I wonder if this would harm the tree since you are using its energy...
ps Still, I don't think it is very practical, but it is definitely very cool and COULD be practical(after all, they said telephones were impractical and of no use). After you figure this out, maybe you could start a "tree fad", where people plant trees and harness the energy just for fun...
Found some info regarding extracting power ,using plants to make a new type of solar cell www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040605/fob2.asp
Okay this is not just a bump ;)
How's about this idea:
We take a plant, specially selected for a few qualities:
1) the plant must naturally grow in, and preferably not show any adverse effects of,
soil with a very high (natural) iron content. (= soil with much ferrite, w?stite,
hematite, magnetite a.k.a. lodestone in the area and red sand areas)
2) the plant must, if no action is taken to prevent this, cause acidification
of the soil. The more acid the soil gets, the better.
Now assuming we have finished our quest for this plant and we have found
one with those qualities,
we take the plant and put it in a pot large enough to contain the plant and
large enough to allow it to grow for a couple of years.
We fill the pot with soil, something like a 50/50 mix of the natural iron rich
soil it was used to and black compost soil.
We stick a not too thin rod in the soil next to the plant, making sure the rod does not
touch the pot bottom. If desired we can attach the plant to the rod to help it grow
and stay upright.
So far nothing really spectacular.
Now let us assume we use an iron pot, and a cabon rod...
That would make for two dissimilar electrodes.
In an acidic moist environment...
... yes, a (weak) galvanic cell! ;D
not sure if this would work at all,
and wondering if maybe the pot should be stainless...
But it is not really a very difficult idea to execute,
so I think I may go looking for the perfect plant this summer. ;)
Reactions or suggestions are always appreciated.
Kind regards,
Koen
Its well known that you can use plants to save electricity. ie, to shade a house.Try wrapping a coil around a tree .You might get an output.I saw one article on the web(rexresearch.com) where trees were used to enhance reception of radio waves dating back to 1910 or sooner.triffid
Yes I know that one.
But that's not the same thing at all.
You can wrap aluminium foil around anyhting and use it as a crude antenna.
That is not what I mean.
I really mean using the active biochemical processes in the plant
to ultimately produce electrical output... ;)
I did read an article years ago about using bacteria(one celled plants) to make a battery with.No idea what happened to it.triffid
I have obtained just over 1 volt DC from a (oleander?) spell check). I stuck the positive lead of my digital meter in the main stock of the plant and the negative to a 12'' x1/4'' piece of aluminum stock laying just below the surface. Checked the next day and received similar reading.
I am sure it is possible to extract energy from plants in some fashion. The only question is cost efficiency. The plant requires nutrients and so forth to keep itself alive. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you took whatever nutrients the plant would have used during its lifetime, you could extract more energy from those if you did not have to deal with the plant at all, rather than somehow glean tiny amounts of energy the plant gives off, being careful not to kill the plant in the process.
Koen
Stubblefield may have been doing something related to getting energy from trees.
About half way down on this page . http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html
It talks about people finding large wires connected to tree roots .
gary
Hey thanks One/gary, that's interesting...
yeah, Stubblefield would have been one to try something like
that with his earth batteries...
:)
Quote from: Koen1 on March 25, 2008, 01:31:43 PM
I really mean using the active biochemical processes in the plant
to ultimately produce electrical output... ;)
But you will kill the plant... you are talking of something like "place a hidro generator on your aorta artery to power your cell phone"...
Don't be absurd.
I have clearly indicated that I am NOT talking about using materials
that are harmful to the plant.
I have some trees on my property that are pretty old and there are some on a fence row that have grown around the old barbwire fence to where the barbwire in now embedded it to the trees. I will test the barbwire for current tomorrow and see what I get and takes pictures to post the findings.
ok, that would be nice.
It seems what we need here is some input from a botanist,
who has concrete information on acidification of soil by
plant and the mineral exchange involved...
I just got in from a long day and I was unable to go out back and check the wires for power. I will try again tomorrow. Sorry.
I just wanted to spread the word here .Some guy near El Paso ,Texas figured out a way to get 100,000gallons of biodiesel per acre by growing algae in vertical structures using plastic bags.It turns out that some algae species are 50%oil(dry weight).His name is Glen Kertz.He is president and ceo of Vacent products.In contrast you get 30 gallons oil per acre corn.Thought I would spread the good news here.I saw this yesterday on cnn.com and it really made my day!!!Triffid
Yes... Algae are the future of biodiesel, that are old news. You can get more biodisel because algae are almost entirely oil, they grow up in something like 6 months depending of the specie of algae, and some other technical fact that makes algae the right path for biodiesel.
Here in my work, we have a 10,000 gallon biodiesel plant we bought, and we use "acid fats"... and belive me there are not many people extracting biodiesel from that. We use a 50% blend of biodiesel and diesel and the cost dropped by half with all our trucks and logistic expenses.
The problem with algae is that currently there are not cheap or easy methods for normal people to make grow enough algae for biodiesel. So would be nice in this thread to find a good method for that so everyone can learn to grow algae.
Yes they will to find some method that is dirt cheap to make biodiesel.I read that the us was experimenting with algae over 18 years ago and now coming back to take another look at it.It still
made my day(the article).triffid
Most of the time I read only about the protein in algae.Never that there were oils in certain species of algae until last week.I used to grow jars of algae around the house when I was a kid.I started two jars over the weekend.It should lead to some interesting experiments?triffid
Well idk... If you manage to extract electricity directly from them,
then yes.
If you're just going to produce biodiesel, then perhaps.
But it's not really the direction I intended for this thread...
;)
Sorry I took your thread off course a little.I wasn't even interested in biodiesel until I saw the algae article last week.Before last week they always talked about making it from plants I don't grow or can't grow.It turns out that I have been unaware of about 20 years of research in this area.triffid
Orange and Grapfruit trees might prove fruitful I hear the orange trees smell just like oranges...
What about making pulp from the peels of these fruits including lemons and limes I'm sure you could generate electricity with waste products.
Maybe in colder area's it may be logical to use pine type trees.
I only have one argument.
Over the period of the trees life you may not be able to generate nearly as much energy as you could by burning the tree and using steam turbines...
I have tons of ideas in my mind lately and have not settled in a particular area of testing as of yet I am just far to curious and look for a solid source of power that is cheap and easy to build.
Didn't several ecologists internationally point out, only recently,
that large scale biodiesel is not the solution for the energy crisis?
I distinctly recall entire articles in various magazines and newspapers that
(finally) gave a fairly clear overview of the relatively high fuel consumption
and maintenance costs of the massive harvesting equipment that would
be needed (meaning: relatively low cost-effectiveness and ultimate fuel yield)
and the substantial negative effects on agricultural land availability,
food prices, and water use (and of course related to that increased water
processing and use).
Of course, for some silly reason most of the worlds governments are still
focusing on using foodcrops like corn, wheat, linseed, etc and most of
those articles commented on that, which everyone can see is not really
a super idea.
Your mention of algea is indeed interesting in that respect, as it may indeed
be a really good way to produce lots of biomass without messing up the
foodprices and land use, etc.
But we'd still be dependant on combustion fuel and we'd still be pumping
tons of CO2 into the air, so although it may be a short term solution to the
rising oil prices, it is not a solution for the global warming thing...
If we're going to stick to combustion, but want to switch to another
fuel besides oil, and we still want to lower CO2 emissions,
then the best thing to do would be to switch to locally produced
hydrogen for combustion fuel. If we could have algea produce that,
then by all means let's use them. But as far as I know that is not
really economically feasible yet, so untill we've cultivated such
alga strains, we can use electrolysis.
Ah, I can hear you thinking "so where do we get the electricity from?",
well, what about diverting a few of those billions of dollars that our
respective countries pump into the totally useless Afghanistan war
and finally building that Fusion power plant they were on the verge
of building what was it, 8 years ago now? (It's true, they were just
about to build one in France, international cooperative and all, when the
"war on terror" was proclaimed and everyone pulled out half of their
funds for use in anti-terrorism measures.)
Or if for some odd reason anyone would find that too far out,
we could still speed up R&D on the new liquid metal nuclear reactor
technology that allows total conversion of uranium into energy,
without any radioactive waste or transuranic element production
(the first is always used by the greenies to oppose anything nuclear,
the latter by the neocons because other countries could use certain
trans-Ur elements like plutonium for weapons). That means: 100%
non-radioactive waste, 100% non-CO2 emitting, and as an added bonus
we could actually recycle all the currently stored nuclear waste as fuel!
Why do our governments try to fool us with biodiesel plans? Why don't they just use
those millions and billions for good, instead of evil? Why do our western governments,
who are supposed to be friends and allies, not get together and fix our fuel problems?
... Oh, that's right, the NWO is steering us toward a new Dark Age where Feudalism rules
and we are all slaves of the noblemen and royal elite. (just to throw in some conspiracy stuff here ;) ;D)
Hi Koen,
I just noticed this thread. :D
Redwood trees in northern California US, acidify the soil. (so much so that their own seedlings can't survive)
The charge around a redwood tree is palpable to the human especially to the sensitive ones out to a radius of about 10 feet.
Maybe you would enjoy a trip to northern CA this coming summer.
I don't live there anymore or I'd go right outside with a probe or 2. ;D
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 07, 2008, 04:31:35 PM
Hi Koen,
I just noticed this thread. :D
;D
QuoteRedwood trees in northern California US, acidify the soil. (so much so that their own seedlings can't survive)
The charge around a redwood tree is palpable to the human especially to the sensitive ones out to a radius of about 10 feet.
Maybe you would enjoy a trip to northern CA this coming summer.
:) well I'm not sure about this summer, but it's not a bad idea to check it out sometime...
meanwhile I was thinking of looking for some very small conifer species,
a dwarf/bonsai version of a christmas tree basically ;D and sticking
that in an iron pot with a carbon rod next to it. see what that does... ;)
of course, if we're talking acidification I guess we'll need to wait some time
for the soil to actually change ph before we can expect to get any such
effect... but that's a guess. ;)
oak tree leaves dump a lot of acid into the soil too.So much that other plants can't grow there.Maybe
someone could try making a battery there too.triffid
I wonder if the goal would be to generate the electricity based off the plant's usage of sunlight and water only? No minerals, no acid, no electrolytes. Looking in the very specific goal of generating electricity from how a plant uses the abundant and renewable resources of these two inputs. Stealing just enough of that energy so the plant is not stressed or injured in any way.
As far as wires or electrodes to be used, I did a quick search on the makeup of the wires used in pacemakers. This should be non-toxic to plants just as well as to humans. Some pacemakers use teflon-coated stainless steel wires embedded in the heart's surface. So perhaps this would be the way to go? Stainless must be less toxic than copper, and perhaps a very fine diameter wire would be the way to go?
Just throwing out an idea. I might try it myself just out of curiosity. Throw a couple of ss wires into a tree or bush and see how the plant grows and gives off current. Would it be enough to light an LED? Imagine an LED in every plant in a person's house. I know my mom's house would be lit BRIGHT with the number of plants she has. (LOL).
Nice idea Koen1.
@ Koen 1:
Way back in the early days of our earth battery experiments I decided to check my tree for electricity using the Tree Array pictured. This is simply 7 iron nails (galvanized/zinc coated) tapped about 1/8" into the tree. I stripped copper wire in the middle to allow me to wrap around each nail to make contact.
Results: 1.25 vdc
Now, here is the funny thing. I was showing a friend this the other day and he could not believe it. I got the above numbers by using my carbon rod (+) as a "ground". My tree is negative! you can take the - probe of the meter to the tree array, and stab the + probe lightly into the dirt and get .7vdc. My carbon rod is planted close by so I hooked to that and got the 1.25 vdc. So, my tree is - and my "ground" is +. This goes against everything I have read about electricity.
A quick note to all that will jump on me for destroying the trees: (This happened in the earth battery topic) I am NOT hurting the tree at all. the nails are not in deep and can be pulled out by hand when I want to. The iron nails are not harming the tree. I love nature and would never do anything to harm it.
Believe it or not, there is a recent patent granted on just this type of device. (It is listed in the earth battery topic somewhere way back) It is designed to recharge electric cars from any tree so as to not adding to the load on the grid if we go all electric cars. Funny thing is, in their patent, their device only gets about .7 vdc. Stabbing a carbon (+) rod into the ground made all of the difference.
I just thought I would share this experiment with you. Think of the energy in a forest! Just sitting there.
Bill PS: you can test any tree with just the meter probes, one in the tree (-) and one into the earth(+)
@ResinRat: well, yeah, that's sort of the idea; to use non-toxic electrodes in or on
the plant, that somehow link into the biochemical processes going on in the plant.
That would be one electrode, and the other electrode would be something in the
ground the plant is rooted in, that interacts with the soil by absorbing or emitting
charge, either in the form of electrons or or ions. It is conceivable that ions from that
electrode dissolve and are absorbed by the plant as nutrients, which would be even
better. :)
I was thinking about plants that acidify the soil because that could give a natural
source of acid and obviously might be used for galvanic reactions... But that is
only one approach. Sticking one electrode in a plant and one in a soluble nutrient
stick might work as another approach... And there are other possible ways, but
those are increasingly unlikely to work or even harmful to the plant.
@Bill: Great post! :) Thanks.
I remember your previous post(s) about the "tree array".
If I recall correctly you said the nails were only in the outer bark,
they did not enter into the living tissue of the tree?
That's quite interesting... it would mean that we may not even have to actually stick
electrodes in the plant, but simply attach them to the outer bark...
And if the carbon rod worked so well... the idea of adding a few other elements
to this rod in the right concentrations could at least make it into a sort of nutrient
stick for the tree, and perhaps even boost output a bit :)
Definately worth some simple experiments! :D
Now, this output you got of 1.25V, was that potential difference only or was it
really a dc current, and if so did you test the amperage?
Thanks again, good stimulus to do some field work ;)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 23, 2008, 01:18:45 PM
Believe it or not, there is a recent patent granted on just this type of device. (It is listed in the earth battery topic somewhere way back) It is designed to recharge electric cars from any tree so as to not adding to the load on the grid if we go all electric cars.
Bill
This is great Bill, veerrrrryyy interresssting!!!!!
I'll look for the link. Thanks.
@ Koen:
Below is copied and pasted from the earth battery post I made a while back. (I had to search to look it up)
7 zinc nail array on the tree (-) jumped to a 12" zinc spike in the ground 12' away (-) to the carbon rod (+)
1.17 vdc
1.8 vac
2.6 mA
That is, I believe, the only time I got decent mA's from it. Alone (tree to the earth) was like .5 mA. I did not follow up on these experiments like placing the nail farther away from each other, wiring trees in series, (if even possible) etc. I think it needs looking into.
Bill
thanks Bill.
Someday soon I'll grab some nails and find a tree to play with. :D ;)
...haven't found that patent you mentioned yet...
@ Koen:
You can just use your meter probes at first to see. Just stab into the tree with one, and into the earth with the other. I said my tree is minus but maybe not all are...I have no idea.
I will search around a little to see if I can find the post on the battery topic about the patent. If I can locate it, I will post here.
Bill
Koen:
Below is a re-post of one made by Localjoe in the earth batteries topic that talks about this. It lists the original source of the info. At one time, I was able to find and read the application, but I have no idea how I was able to do that. Anyway, a lot of information in the below quote:
"Source: KeelyNet / Jerry Decker email (12/21/05)
"Unlimited Electric Energy from the Environment?"
An alternative electric power generating system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, eminently renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for patenting by MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with Gordon W. Wadle, an inventor from Thomson, Ill. Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- animal organism --- such as a tree.
Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a battery at full charge.
"As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the feasibility of generating electricity in this manner," said Wadle.
"While the development is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited supply of constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power generating plant complex or an elaborate transmission network."
Wadle likened the invention to the discovery of electricity over 200 years ago when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. "Now we've learned that there is an immense, inexhaustible source of energy literally all around us that can be harnessed and converted into usable electric power," he said. Ultimately, it should prove to be more practical than solar energy or wind power, and certainly more affordable than fuel cells, he added.
Wadle said he got the original idea of harnessing a tree for electrical energy from studying lightening, more than 50 percent of which originates from the ground. This prompted him to develop the theories resulting in a method to access this power source.
Lagadinos then designed circuitry that filtered and amplified these energy emanations, creating a useable power source.
Basically, the existing system includes a metal rod embedded in the tree, a grounding rod driven into the ground, and the connecting circuitry, which filters and boosts the power output sufficient to charge a battery.
In its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. "Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."
Lagadinos said the system could be enhanced enough to generate 12 volts and one amp of power, "a desirable power level that could be used to power just about anything," he said. It is enough power to charge batteries for any type of vehicle, including hybrids and electric cars, or to use with an AC converter to produce household power, he added. The LED industry is a prime example of a potential user of this power source.
While the basic concept of this invention -- using a tree to generate electric power -- seems too incredible to be true, Lagadinos said it can be demonstrated quite simply. "Simply drive an aluminum roofing nail through the bark and into the wood of a tree -- any tree -- approximately one half inch; drive a copper water pipe six or seven inches into the ground, then get a standard off-the-shelf digital volt meter and attach one probe to the pipe, the other to the nail and you'll get a reading of anywhere from 0.8 to 1.2 volts of DC power," he said.
"You can't do anything with it in that form because it is 'dirty' -- i.e. highly unstable and too weak to power anything," he added. In order to properly harness this potential energy source, MagCap devised two test circuits: one with three capacitors that were connected in parallel by means of a switch and charged to 0.7 volts each.
When fully charged they are switched to a series mode, multiplying the voltage to 2.1 volts and flashing an LED to show that sufficient power could be generated to produce a useable result. The second circuit included a filtering device to stabilize and "clean" the current so it could be used to charge and maintain a NiCad battery.
The battery then could be connected to the LED to keep the LED lit continuously. Wadle pointed out that there seems to be no limit to the amount of power that can be drawn from an individual tree, no matter how many "taps" are inserted -- each produces the same amount of energy, an average of 0.7 - 0.8 volts. Size of the tree also seems not to matter.
Interestingly, while conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that the tree draws much of its energy from photosynthesis via its leaves, the voltage output actually increases to 1.2-1.3 volts in the winter after the leaves have fallen."
Bill
Thanks a stack, Bill! :)
So, if they're continuously lighting a LED off it, I'm guessing something like 3V 0.1mA?
That seems to be quite a bit!
I'm still a bit miffed about the difference between putting the nails only in the bark,
like you did in your tests, and putting them through the bark into the wood,
like that patent describes...
wild thought: if possible to use only the bark and not actually any living part of
the tree, perhaps it is even possible to use a simple plank?
Okay that's just crazy. ;)
Off to the forest coming summer, that's for sure! ;D
@ Koen:
I am sure my nails are into the tree itself, if only a little bit. The bark on this one is very thin. LEDs vary on what it takes to light them. With my first earth battery, I was able to light my red one with 1.6 vdc and about 3mA's. The LED was rated for 1.7 vdc and 15 mA's. It was pretty bright too. I think they said they were getting like .7 vdc and they were going to wire in series to boost the volts. I remember because I was thrilled that my first attempt obtained about twice what these guys got. There is much more experimenting to be done. A few nails tapped into any decent size tree will not hurt it at all. Just think of how they tap the trees for maple syrup, they pound huge spigot like things deeply into the trees. They do not want to damage their trees in any way because this is their business and they depend on them. They do this year after year with no ill effects. I am not convinced i need 7 nails to get the same results, probably just 2 or 3 would do the same?
That is a strange idea you have about testing, say, a 2x4 board.....I like it. Who knows? Is the energy stored in the wood? Or, is the tree just the receptacle for earth currents and once removed from the ground....nothing? Easy to test for. I think it is the second option but I don't really know. As I said, we are surrounded by energy...everywhere. The trick is to figure out how to tap into it.
Bill
I know that carbon and magnesium electrodes in an electrolyte will generate voltages over 1.25 volts.Just the battery action taken into consideration here.
@ triffid:
Actually, using a carbon rod and a magnesium block buried in the ground over 6 feet apart, and dry, no electrolyte, I got over 2.25 vdc. The carbon was north (+) and the mag. was south (-) on the north south meridian. This was early on in our earth battery experiments.
Bill
Patent 5794601 is on extracting energy from radio waves.It has circuits that that increase the voltage several hundred times what the input is.I offer those circuits here to increase maybe even get 250-300 volts from one tree.Really.If someone here figures out how to wire trees in series.I hope they post it here.triffid
Sorry wrong patent.5794601 is still an interesting patent.I'll repent now and get the right patent number here later.Triffid
ok,heres the correct patent number"2,813,242 by L.R. Crump,March 12,1954.He increased the voltage a hundred times,not several hundred.So using al least part of his circuits.You should be able to get 250-300 volts out of a tree battery.triffid
thanks Triffid! :)
will study the patent soon.
If we really can multiply the voltage 100 times
without lowering the already very low amperage,
then indeed, this could be a grand improvement.
Just imagine hooking a couple of trees to such circuitry,
and getting a nice (converted) 220V AC out of an attached
wall socket... ;D
you could mow your lawn using power from your trees,
recharge your car batteries from your garden trees,
perhaps (if you have enough trees) even run part of your
house on it... :D
It might be possible to recharge car batteries from radio waves.So the patent shows how to take the ac from the radio waves, convert it to a steady dc output,then using a transistor circuit interrupt it and make it go through a 100 gain transformer and make it at least pulsed DC.All from 1954.
There are references to earlier patents too.triffid
@ triffid:
I have always wondered about "intercepting" RF signals for power. After all, they are there anyway and the radio or TV station will not know, or does not care if some of the energy is used by someone like me. It will not prevent anyone from receiving the signals, and, it will not make them up their power to compensate. I have had this idea for a while now. I am glad someone else is thinking along the same lines. It is already there. Let's use it.
Bill
looks like once again I have taken this thread off topic.I only offered the patent because it had circuits that could boost the 1.25 to 3 volts you get from your" bat-trees" 100 times or more.Of course the current would drop in a corresponding manner but there is another thread here about something called a water block cell(a device that maintains the voltage and the current).So there may be hope afterall.I don't claim to understand that water block cell.Triffid
@ all ( in forking segment) -
I've always wondered why a signal generated with the impulse of power wouldn't carry said impulsive power? Doesn't a transmitter seem to be this device that floods the air with energy?
@ all in main thread topic -
We get power from plants.
Wood. Ethanol. Corn sugar.
That most of the methods of realizing that power being so patently inefficient (it takes years to grow a tree, it takes hours to burn it completely) usually means that we should look at it (fuel use) again both on a production and consumption level.
The thing I'd worry about most is how much extra energy can be gleaned from a "crop" without stopping or stunting it's growth?
How is it happening in nature now? That'll give me something to think on.
Wouldn't it be wild if you could tap plant roots with them behaving as stubblefield coils (I REALLY have no idea what that [stubblefield] is about. I'm just using it in the way I've seen posts referencing it, allude to [Jeanna in Wild & crazy Caduceus Coil interpretation thread] ) as a bi-product of getting the nutrients they need for natural healthy growth?
Something to use the capillary movement of nutrients and metals from root to foliage?
Replacing lawn mulch w/ capacitive torrids?
Just some random thoughts. ;) I apologize to any innocent bystanders that might get struck.
I read a comic bookllike that once.except all the people were replaced by machines,not the plants.So the cities of earth were there,full of machines.
Back in 2005 when MagCap announced they were getting power from trees I tried a few experiments. I haven't returned to them since though. FWIW Here's a photo from back then along with the notes I made.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
<-- start of notes ----------------------------->
Jan 8, 2005
With 1 grounding rod hammered about 6" deep.
- I first nailed about a foot up the tree, into the wood. Voltage was
meaasured directly between the nail and the copper rod. Voltage was
around 1.004 volts but varied when I removed and reconnected the
probes and aligator clips from 1.004 to 0.94.
- I also measured across a 12ohm resistor and got significantly less voltage.
- I measured current in series with the 12ohm resistor and it was around
18microamps.
- I measured current in the 12ohm resistor and is was still around 18microamps.
- As a sanity test I measured with a nail that was just duct-taped to the
side of the bark. There must have been some capacitance because it quickly
dropped to single digit millivolts and kept dropping from there.
- I also measured with two other nails. One was higher up and showed around
the same voltage, 1.00volts. The other was in a crack in the bark so I did
not have to scrape the bark away first. It was also around 1.00volts.
Jan 9, 2005
- With 1 grounding rod, the results were, starting from top left nail
to bottom right nail:
49uA, 0.90V, 44uW
51uA, 0.79V, 40uW
34uA, 0.94V, 32uW
- With 2 grounding rods, the second one hammered about 12" deep:
57uA, 0.94V, 53uW
54uA, 0.82V, 44uW
37uA, 0.97V, 36uW
Note that the 2 grounding rods were connected at their top using two
wires with aligator clips (two were used to increase conductivity).
During the tests for 2 ground rods, the current fluctuated slowly,
sometimes going up and sometimes down. It was not random movement,
definately unidirectional. The voltage did likewise but possibly
more slowly. This may have been due to the two grounding rods being
at different potentials in the ground - though both were cut from
the same copper pipe. This type of fluctuation was not as prevelant
when using only one grounding rod.
<-- end of notes ----------------------------->
I am about to work out some values of the components that will increase the voltage a 100 fold.I also just heard about lakhovsky coils.Some of those were wrapped around trees(to protect them from diease I understand).They take energy from the universe and add that energy to the life force of the tree.The theory is that all living things act as electronic circuits.What caught my interest here is that a single loop of copper wire can funnel enough energy over an extended period of time to heal a plant of cancers(plant cancers that is).
Well I read about the Lakhovski research on "multi wave vibrators"...
Seems to be a sort of cross between Reichian Orgone devices and
hertzian waveform based "radionics".
But I've only ever read "radionics" type stories about that, so it was
all about applying specific frequencies to combat specific afflictions...
Have never read anything about attempts to use such frequency coupling
to extract energy from plants...
But interesting stuff nevertheless. ;)
It interested me because a single loop was used in the coil and it seemed to work(?).The only power source was cosmic rays or radio waves (broad spectrum I guess).Again I seem to be taking this thread somewhere else?triffid
I had already suggested in an earlier post that one could wrap a coil around a tree to see if they could get an output.Maybe wrap a coil (two different coils)around two trees and see if one could get a difference of potential between the two different coils.Just an idea.Triffid
yeah, but it's still an idea :)
If you give it a try, please do post your findings eh?
I will post my findings after I do it .I have two bushes about the same size.It would take not more than
20 windings each bush.Maybe just 5 turns.But I do not have a large tree and small tree near each other.Maybe someone here can do that experiment and post what they find?This could be used for space travel if we can find a way to generate electricity from plants.I tend to look for ideas whereever I can find them. Triffid
Well I tried to wrap a 3 turn coil around two different plants and got zero volts between them.So I don't think my less than $20.00 voltmeter can pick up microvolts.It can pick up 1/100 volts though.Or so it says.triffid