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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 02:30:15 PM

Title: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 02:30:15 PM
here we go marco

care to help

i just found the old tube guy near me  ;D

going to get all the tubes tommorow transformers and all

sooo


where to start

hummm

ist
Title: Re: The Tube Rack
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 03:33:23 PM
a pic of marcos tubes

i need to make a shopping list for transformers and tubes  and the 3 varibale caps 3 gout is that what they call those ones

so it looks like a bunch of tubes but im glad the tube guy i found has a cheep price tag  ;) he has 20 000 in stock he is only .5 hours from me  ;D

like i said progress will be fast but i will not do it all alone  if i must forget it i will not post it public

what do we all have in your pic here dude?

i will be using the 6bq7a tubes  he has a bunch i was going to get 5 more of them  for a total of 6bq7a tubes  so i will need power supplys fore those tubes and the rectifier tubes  in marcos pic are 5u4gb tubes i see 2 of them  and the rest i have no idea


so guys help me out

what do i need to buy ?

ist

this will be my last atempt at any of this  i must move on  so people lets do it  i know this works i know sm is a great person i know it is all here except what i was posting  when they killed my laptop   ;)

so time to ...........                                               ~~END THE GAME!! THE REAL WAY~~
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 04:31:38 PM
marcos schem
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 05:11:41 PM
all comments welcome


pese marco bep zpe all you guys   and yes everyone i did not mention  i must resolve this list tonight all of the materials well i guess no comments no help

hummmmm


and i thought we all wanted a real tpu 

im going first thing in the morn to get everything on the list  but first i need the list

so i guess i will be up all night re reading all the info pertaining to tubes agin so i can peice togather the list

i will use the 6 v tubes like sm did  not the 12 even tho they will work i am so verry new to tubes  that the lower the voltage the better in my case i have some solar deep cucle batteries i can use  to keep it clean  and off grid  i have a 400 watt invertor i can use to power the transformers  but agin i dont know what voltage transformers i need eather  the dude  has all i would ever need right there waiting for me but  it ia all useless unless i know

and i currently do not know all that i need

so i ask for the last time

there is just never enough money round here to go round  so the less mistakes i make the better  ;) all the way round


ist
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 06:08:44 PM
so now i will layout what it is i know or think i know  :)

this rack MUST consist of

3 class "A"  power amps around 5 watts or so  {push and pull} 

i think it was this amp that only lets the odd harmonics through but not sure must check that out yet

then we need 3 osolators  that can go to at least 1 meg   dont know wich ones for sure just yet  but have a good idea

lost on the input transformers and the output transformers  i have no idea  what is needed 

hummm

the 3 var caps  or tunners or what ever  they are called  and at this point i dont know what else

ist


@ mannix where are you NOW!!

this is what you all want me to do is it not???

well advise  i dont know what is next  i dont see anyone else doing it so ......   




Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 06:31:58 PM
so the 6bq7a tubes are phase invertors  so what are phase invertors well in my opinion they are the freq gennys sine wave generators or osoliators

and it was stated some where wich osc to use but  SINCE MY LAPTOP IS DEAD i cant get to my tube books  and the page last time i checked was not working  where the books came from so  not good

but i will see if i can peice all the diffrent schems to this thred  tonight so i can come up with an idea of what i want for tommorow  and with some luck i can do it right and get all i need tommorow all at once

is

one could say that i have never been so hyper @ somthing b4  but this game must end soon  i will be happy when i finish

because it will also answer questions i have about my machine as they operate in a similar fasion  and maybe just matbe  all my machine is is a mechanical tpu  hummmmmm...
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 12:09:28 AM
the tube osc that have been pointed out to use 

so i will need 3 of thease in the rack  the 6bq7a  tube will work for this i would assume
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 01:14:10 AM
now the amps

and yep only the odd harmonics come through with a push and pull amp

ist


ie 1 3 5 7 hummmm

so i should be able to  make  a push and pull amp from a single 6bq7a tube   because they are dubble triodes  so 3 of thease tubes should cover the amps  and i think as a triode they were 3watts output but when in a push and pull they could push 5 or 6 watts  each amp  from what i understand  i did not see a rectifier tube in the schem  hummmm  so i assume they can be powered dirrectly from the transformers so i need 3 of those too for thease amps  because we must keep all things independent  of each other


so humm thinking about this is all i need more 6bq7a tubes and power supplyies ??

a total of 6 6bqa tubes 3 for osc and 3 for the push and pulls  am i wrong? why do i need rectifier tubes? or do i?
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 02:03:35 AM
so the end of my serch says to my understanding 6 6bq7a tubes and 6 transformers  for power supplyies  i could use just triode tubes for the freq genny but i might aswell get the dubble ones then i have spares  but the transformers must be able to do 245k hummmm  is that a special trans? i will have to ask the tube guy  i hope i have got this correct but i think i do  im sure that some of the tubes could use the same sypplyies but maybe not so i will get indivigual supplyies  for the tubes for thease tubes the htr works on dc or ac as i recall


so just the var caps   not too much really and in doing this if this is right i already have a good idea how to hook this up to the coil and well i think is this easy  ;D

ist 
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 09:50:33 AM
i just talked to the tube guy on the phone and he says i could use 1 transformer for all 6 6bq7a tubes  but they will not be indepedent  supplyes  but still independent in operation from one another

so welll i got to do some more digging cuz aint nobody talking i have to meet him at 1 this afternoon so till then i digg
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: Koen1 on November 01, 2007, 10:08:10 AM
What are you trying to do??
It's clear you're working on something based on electron tube tech and oscillating circuitry, but what exactly are you aiming at here?
Is it an attempt to build a variation on Tesla's "black box" or what??
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 10:21:57 AM
the tpu

i want 3 freq gennys and 3 class a amps  that is all


the amps should be sepreat from 1 another  i guess i should get 3 transformers and power 1 amp and 1 genny from each transformer that would keep them sepreate  for the genny i will only need to use 1 of the triodes  in the 6bq7a  not both will this matter? i dont think it will i could just use a single triode  for that  but i thought i cant go wrong with those tubes but i fear i may need more tubes  like rectifiers but this is where i get a little more lost than i am currently
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 10:43:29 AM
ah yes it is time for some links about this tube

as i can see

we need them

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0033.htm


a good link with tools to calculate tube amp stuff like impeadence and that kind of thing

http://www.duncanamps.com/software.html
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: acp on November 01, 2007, 12:13:10 PM
Quoteso the 6bq7a tubes are phase invertors  so what are phase invertors well in my opinion they are the freq gennys sine wave generators or osoliators


A phase invertor does exactly what the name says it does, it invert the phase by 180 degrees.
   _    _    _
  /  \_/  \_/  \_/  .
      _    _    _
  \_/  \_/  \_/  \   the above inverted.
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: turbo on November 01, 2007, 03:11:09 PM
Verry well....from the beginning.

Does anybody care to name the little osc's below because i believe they actually named them wrong in this old book i found.



Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: turbo on November 01, 2007, 03:21:28 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on October 31, 2007, 06:08:44 PM

this rack MUST consist of

3 class "A"  power amps around 5 watts or so  {push and pull} 

@ mannix where are you NOW!!


Hi

I do not think they MUST be class A.
Other classes might work aswell if not better.
Class A does not mean it is the best amplifier.

M.
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 03:35:45 PM
hello marco

well i dont need to konw how to read german to understand the importance of your above picture  ;)

i just got the 6 6bq7a tubes and 1 plate transformer and sockets and sheilds  nothing more so i will have to some how work with this stuff

the tube guy insisted that i get the porcilin sockets and shields  for what it is im doing  with this unit he said it would help to keep things clean   

so now i have this what do i do with it??

does this have to be built on a peice  of steel?

i would post a pic but i use my laptop for that and oh yea i cant!!! hummmm  so i will try to get my cam drivers on this computer  when i do i will post what i bought

marco can i power the 3 osc and the 3 amps from the same power supply transformer  with out conflicting ??  cuz i only could afford 1 transformer


ist
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 01, 2007, 06:58:14 PM
so this is my transformer and i know nothing about it  so i will look for some specks for it on the net this is the frist place for me to start i must find wich wires are what  anyone know wich are in and out   and all the stuff or could someone point some dirrections  about this transformer?

ist

on this transformer there are 4 pairs of wires
a white and black i think this is power in
2 green wires 1 has a yellow stripe
2 brown wires 1 has a yellow stripe
2 red wires 1 has a yellow stripe

and that is all
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 02, 2007, 02:02:20 AM
marco i some how missed your post on the first page  just saw it now for the first time i will give it a go at what is what i could answer it perfectly but i have currently no access to my tube books wich right now i could really use  and i would list all of those osc in order as you posted them

i have no tube experience at all but i will learn it as there is only 1 right way to figure this tpu out and understand it

THE SOONER SOME PEOPLE HERE UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WILL GET NOWHERE UNLESS THEY USE TUBES  THE SOONER THEY WILL HAVE A REAL TPU

sorry gk i do not mean you  i know it can be done with ss  but will be verry hard  and i know you can do it ;)  i also know right now i can not with ss  so i go the tube path  ;D

ist

in further reading i discover i am wrong in my earlyer post regarding the class "A" amp the push and pull amps i will use  there are not class a amps but class "B"  and they are the ones we want to use why??

well because they only each amplfly only half the wave duh!!!!

what was it marco that you said 3 half rectified sine waves   my wording is wrong on this i know i will check it out  ;)

but you all know what the really kool thing is ????

i can build every one of those osc's and everyone of those amps from the tubes i just bought lol!!!

Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: acp on November 02, 2007, 04:28:24 AM
Quotewell i dont need to konw how to read german to understand the importance of your above picture  Wink

It's not German, it's Dutch. Use Babelfish if you want to find out what it says.
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 02, 2007, 04:30:55 AM
thanks acp

for that

is there a way to turn 3 push and pulls into a cascade amp?!?!?!?!?!

with a coil.........                  what??

ist
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 02, 2007, 01:47:14 PM
well got the laptop working on second montor  it was a big pain  but at least i have access to my tube books   

so marco i will list the osc's you posted  and also i can digg in on the transformer i have  im sure it is in my books


no they did not fix my computer it is still messed up   i just moved  all the icons and and the start button over  to the other screen  verry hard to do  as i can only faintly see what is on the primary  display  >:(

i am reading the books now  and will post when i finish

ist

@ marco

#1 schem is the
is the tickler circuit osc
#2  schem is the
hearty osc
#3 schem is the
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: turbo on November 02, 2007, 11:02:52 PM
i believe pic one and two is the Armstrong osc.
three and four i think is called Collpitts
and five and six the Hartley osc.
seven could be the tuned plate/grid.

as you can see on the pics it does not require much to build a couple of those and i also believe we can build them with many types of triodes.
it could be a good starting point.

IS pherhaps you can hook up your harddisk to another computer so you will have acess to your files i switch them all the time.

Marco.
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: Localjoe on November 02, 2007, 11:40:13 PM
@ marco I already sent him a link for the bytec usb 2.0 to laptop ide adapter... from newegg, @ IS um if you hit the function key on you laptop and the screen button look for it, it should let you run your desktop on the monitor as a primary keep clicking it to cycle through the modes one should me dual display like you have now and another should switch the whole desktop to the second monitor and leave the laptop lcd black
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 03, 2007, 07:25:45 AM
thanks guys

but the problem with my laptop is my key board is screwed  i use an external keyboard and it doesnot have the original keys on it like the function key it was like this when i got it someone spilled a drink on it  then the balck screen of death  from you know who

it is ok i can get my files from it i just made this post from it  i will use my jump drive  sooo

i will buy a new one when im done :) :) :) this ring well marco i tryed at the osc's i was wrong  :) no worries tho

in all the digging i did in the tube books i happin to find a push and pull osc hummm

but it is the copitts we want  no? how ever the tuned plate grid makes more sence eh?? TUNED!!!! lol

ist 
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 03, 2007, 09:15:24 AM
ok so this is how i was going to determan what is what with my transformer

i will power it with 12v dc  into the primary  and then i will see what comes out of it  on the other wires  i should have a low voltage winding for the htrs and a high voltage one for the plates  well i will try this and see where this gets me

ist

well that didint work  sooo humm  anyone know what is what for this transformer  i took it apart but that did no good as i could not see where the wires go cuz it is incased in some plastic like  stuff
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 03, 2007, 01:23:19 PM
there apears to be so little intrest and help on this site

some times life gets the best of me sorry all
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: angryScientist on November 03, 2007, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 03, 2007, 09:15:24 AM
ok so this is how i was going to determan what is what with my transformer

i will power it with 12v dc  into the primary  and then i will see what comes out of it  on the other wires  i should have a low voltage winding for the htrs and a high voltage one for the plates  well i will try this and see where this gets me

ist

well that didint work  sooo humm  anyone know what is what for this transformer  i took it apart but that did no good as i could not see where the wires go cuz it is incased in some plastic like  stuff

Please don't give up so easily.

Do you have an Ohm meter? This is what I would do.
Test the resistance of each pair of wires. It will give you a rough idea of the size of each winding. The winding with the least resistance will probably be for your heater. The winding with the most resistance will be the high voltage winding.

Test the resistance of the red and black wires and make sure that it really is your primary (I think it is). Divide your house hold voltage (120 in the USA) buy the number of Ohms. That will give you an estimation of the current the coil will draw when you plug it in. Make sure that the number of amps it will draw is reasonable, so you don't blow anything up.

Volts / Ohms = Amps

After you have determined which windings are what then I would connect the primary to your house power (being extremely careful, of course). The voltages you read will be slightly higher with no load.

You can't really know for sure the voltages of each winding until you plug the thing in. Without knowing the size of the wire measuring the resistance only gives hint at how big each winding is.

And again, don't give up now. With some time and a little help we can work though the frustration.
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 03, 2007, 07:28:33 PM
thank you

just some insight for you all on my life

life is tough  it has been hell for the last 6 years

i wise man once told me if your dreams are your nightmares then your in the wrong bed

how true is that??

life is what we make it and i did it wrong so i digg and digg my way out  with so little luck

i now have hours of work with my laptop because because people trash it on here and here where i sit right now it sits in many peices not by my doing  so i loose agin

life it makes me wonder........   why do i try so hard  just to get by in this world  this is not the way it should be .........

ist

just another dull day in a bright world  life............got to love it 
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: angryScientist on November 04, 2007, 11:22:38 AM
I know what you mean. I think I may have been experiencing something similar. For me it has been about seven years with this last year being easier than the year before.

It has taught me some things though. I has taught me that religion is the worst thing to happen to humans because it takes things that are true and twists it to make it look like something else. It makes people split into two separate ways of thinking. There's the day side where the nice old lady across the street is just the sweetest thing and the best neighbor. Then there is the other side where that sweet little old lady is now your biggest head ache and if you don't die from a brain hemorrhage then you are just going to be miserable for no reason. Even though your other neighbor just killed her self there is no peace for anyone.

Then some moron comes knocking on your door saying live is wonderful because what would jesus do. What?! He would get a brain hemorrhage and die you moron. The question is not what would jesus do, he would drop dead and thank you for it, the question is what would a lion do? What would something that has gone through intense hardship and is still alive do?

Being alive is important. Having children is important. Learning and comprehending is important. Not being under some bodies thumb is important.

I don't want to pay some body else for me to live. I know that they are going to take what I give them and use it to get more from me. That is the way business works.

I don't do what I do for some little old lady. I do what I do for me, for my benefit. If you help me then I will help you. If you damage me then I should return the favor. It's simple.

I do what I do in spite of those little of devils. Believe me there is reason for much spite.

I realize that I may sound a little angry. That would be because I'm pissed the f**k off.

Anyway, I like to learn. I like to help the people that help me. I need all the help I can get.

Peace and good night. And remember, god damned people. (And he did too.)
Title: Re: The ~~~~~Tube Rack~~~~~
Post by: innovation_station on November 06, 2007, 02:47:38 PM
well i hooked up the transformer to an ohm meter  to see what is what and

the black and white wire read 2.8 ohms
and the red and red/yellow read  6.8 ohms
and the brown and brown/yello read 0 ohms
and the green and green/yellow read 0 ohms

so hummm

i find it weird that 2 of the pairs read 0 ohms

but hey i have no idea how this transformer is suspoto work anyways lol!!

i would think that the 2.8 ohm pair  are ac input  from the wall