Hi all,
Please take a look at the web site below. They claim to have a method that increases the oxygen content of water by using electrolysis.
http://www.keepfishalive.com/index.php
Please excuse my ignorance in the chemical aspects of electrolysis but it seems to make sense to me that by allowing the hydrogen to dissipate into the atmosphere, more oxygen would be left in the water. Or would the oxygen also bubble up and out of the water like the hydrogen leaving no net change?
Lets say the hydrogen (cathode) was separated from the water and used as a fuel and the oxygen (anode) was contained in the electrolyzer vessel (or at least on the anode side of the container), would the oxygen content of the water (in PPM) increase?
I actually have a large application (many gallons of water) that I would like to be able to increase the oxygen content in using a rather unconventional approach.
I would like to do some experiments but would like some opinions as to whether or not this is a feasible/practical application to raise oxygen levels in water compared to other aeration techniques such as bubblers or mixers.
Thank you for your help
Jerry
G'day all,
This is not difficult to do. I take it he is using saltwater rather than fresh water since you need some sort of electrolyte. All you need to do is to place the anode on the bottom of the tank and the cathode near the top.
This way the liberated oxygen must bubble through the tank and will aerate the water and the hydrogen vents off. You can see this on the device he shows.
Hans von Lieven
That's not electrolysis.
They are simply using a catalyst of some description to react with the water. It will be reacting specifically with the hydrogen atoms and leaving the oxygen to combine to O2, which is what you see rising up. Of course the longer it takes or the least of it that gets to the surface the better, as you want as much O2 as possible to disolve into the water.
Very neat actually. Wonder how long it will last for?
Farrah Day
And what kind of a catalyst do you think they are using Farrah?
If they have found one that works like this the energy problems of the world are sorted out right here.
No, they are using electrolysis.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
Thank you for your example. It does not seem difficult. Perhaps ?lake water? has enough minerals to allow electrolysis. See the description from their website.
?The Oxygenator is designed for FRESH WATER use only. Use of salt or additives containing salt will result in the production of chlorine which will kill fish. Disconnect at the battery if you are fishing in salt or brackish water.?
Jerry
Sorry Jerry,
I did not see this part. I don't know much about raising fish.
It's a fairly easy thing to try though. All you need are two pieces of stainless steel mesh. A couple of stainless tea strainers will do, connect them to a battery charger or a car battery and you are there.
Good luck with your experiments.
Hans von Lieven
And Farah,
Yes, I agree. It is VERY neat.
Jerry
Sorry Hans, looks like it is a kind of mini electrolyser
I hadn't realised it was battery operated until I read a testimonial about it. I thought it was a lump of something reacting with the water. However, you can get catalysts that produce various gases from water, so it was not a stupid assumption on my part. They don't solve the fuel crisis though as you obviously need to keep acquiring and adding the catalyst which eventually becomes inactive as all the active components become exhausted. Take for example adding calcium to water - you get hydrogen rapidly given off... remember it from the chemistry lab at school?
Just had a good look at this, there are a couple of versions of it. Both are just small self-contained units. They say don't use in saltwater, which is obviously because you would get no oxygen given off, but chlorine instead. Nothing however is said about the hydrogen??
While H2 is not toxic to the fish, surely there is a potential risk of explosion in confined spaces. Take this scenario. It is used in an aquarium at home. Overnight the hydrogen builds up in the hood cover. The following morning the electronic starter fires up the flourescent light tube in the hood and... Poof... bye bye fishes!
G'day Farrah,
This is not as dangerous as it sounds. With the hydrogen generated at the top it has little chance of forming H2 O2 ,which is highly explosive, as much of the oxygen gets absorbed by the water.
Hydrogen is lighter than air and disperses rapidly if it is vented and the quantities produced are not enough to pose a serious risk.
In a larger installation one would simply install a small pilot flame at the hydrogen vent that would burn the gas off as it was produced preventing a build up.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
the hydrogen will be forming H2 as it leaves the electrodes with the O2, and only a small amount of O2 will actually get absorbed by the water. The electrodes are closely spaced in the unit just like our wfcs. This thing is just a mini version of our wfcs.
Anyway, looking at it I don't think its designed for in-house aquariums. And, as you say, would not pose much of a danger in the open with air currents. I sure wouldn't want one in my home.
Sooner or later though, someone will use one in a confined space where the hydrogen can't disperse, rising up to sit in a pocket causing an explosion when they light their cigar!
Farrah,
You say only a small amount of O2 will be absorbed by the water. Would the ?small? amount of pure O2 provide better aeration than a 20% concentration injected from the ?air? using something like a blower?
Again, not being chemically savvy, if I had a low oxygen content of say 3 ppm and then used the electrolysis method to introduce O2, wouldn?t the O2 become readily absorbed into the water until it was saturated with oxygen?
Thanks again,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
depending on the cost of this thing, you might be better off just using a normal aerator/bubbler. You sure won't have the hydrogen to worry about then. It might just be a new gimmick. Unless it is compared scientifically and directly to an air bubbler it's hard to say.
What I can say though, is that if all the oxygen got absorbed back into the water, then only hydrogen would be given off at the surface. Now think about this. At school, when you electrolyse water in your science class you collect exactly twice as much hydrogen as oxygen, because of waters H2O composition. You don't collect 3 times more hydrogen because a lot of oxygen gets absorbed into the water.... do you.
You can encourage more oxygen into water just by splashing your hands around in it. I think an aerator would work just as well in most circumstances.
Normally I would say you are absolutely right Farrah,
I don't know much about raising fish, having had a goldfish when I was a kid hardly qualifies me to speak on the subject. From what I read in the company release though it would appear that fish do better with an oxygenator than an air blower, which is the standard way of oxygenating water in the industry.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that an air blower enriches the water with nitrogen as well.
Hans von Lieven
Yes, I'm only speculating really Hans, but we both know that most of the oxygen will rise up through the water, as per our wfcs. So how much oxygen is actually disolving is anyones guess!
Farrah Day
depends on water temperature, the colder the water the more will dissolve. Same as CO2.
How cold the fish can stand is a moot point LOL
Hans von Lieven
What is the condition which a higher oxygen content would alleviate - as I am assuming that is what is motivates your desire for structurally altering the water?
Regards
What???
To deep - 2 hard to fathom?
Hmmm...I'm going to wait to see if its clear as as the deep blu sea to the man with the querry before I engage in any clearing of the waters.
He will know what I may be referring 2 - if his problem is what I may have a solution for.
Regarding puzzles ;)
@Cap-Z-Ro
?What is the condition which a higher oxygen content would alleviate - as I am assuming that is what is motivates your desire for structurally altering the water??
I am interested in your possible solution. My motivation is to improve water quality not necessarily to alter it. In part of my world, oxygen content of water is diminished in several ways: B.O.D. (Biological Oxygen Demand) or C.O.D. (Chemical Oxygen Demand) or even by F.I.S.H. (Fish)
Conventional blowers and aeration equipment are expensive, use lots of electricity and require huge amounts of maintenance to keep in proper operating condition. I am simply wondering if electrolysis has even a slight possibility or the potential to realistically improve the oxygen content of water, which may have been depleted by any number of ways.
Hopefully now the question is as clear as the deep blue sea and the ?puzzle? can be solved.
Thanks everyone.
Jerry
@ Jerry,
A connection I've recently made spoke of an application of his product being extremely beneficial in the fish farm industry - I was left with the impression that it related to the efficient removal/control of fish waste.
I hope to talk with him again this week - and will provide an update.
Regards
Hi Cap
I would imagine that your connections process will have something to do with removing the nitrates that would be harmful to the fish if left to build up too much.