Hello all TPU builders,
I wanted to post this on Christmas but then I have to be nice and kind and I dont want to be nice!!!!
Like the last time with my ECD Im asking you all coil builders:
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR???
You have nice pictures from Mr.Mannix and a very good description of a TPU!!!!!
Guys, youre sleeping.
You dont understand?? Of course not!!!!
The pictures Mr.Mannix posted are pictures of really working TPUs, I tried the 3 stack and its working fine.
Where is the description???? Haaaaa!!!!!
LOOK AT "dfro". He made 2 posts. Find them and read them. I mean, take your time and read this posts. Not "read" but really read what this good man wrote down.
If you dont understand his words then read again and again.........until you understand.
Come on guys, start finally to work on a TPU because I cant do all the work allone!!!!
Nice days and WAKE UP. Its TPU time.
This is my Christmas present for the coil builders and thinkerers on this forum.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 18, 2007, 01:55:48 AM
Hello all TPU builders,
I wanted to post this on Christmas but then I have to be nice and kind and I dont want to be nice!!!!
Like the last time with my ECD Im asking you all coil builders:
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR???
You have nice pictures from Mr.Mannix and a very good description of a TPU!!!!!
Guys, youre sleeping.
You dont understand?? Of course not!!!!
The pictures Mr.Mannix posted are pictures of really working TPUs, I tried the 3 stack and its working fine.
Where is the description???? Haaaaa!!!!!
LOOK AT "dfro". He made 2 posts. Find them and read them. I mean, take your time and read this posts. Not "read" but really read what this good man wrote down.
If you dont understand his words then read again and again.........until you understand.
Come on guys, start finally to work on a TPU because I cant do all the work allone!!!!
Nice days and WAKE UP. Its TPU time.
This is my Christmas present for the coil builders and thinkerers on this forum.
Otto
Hi Otto:
Good job! But I can't download your zip file? What's the deal?
Thanks
chrisC
Otto,
this sounds exciting, are you saying you have a working TPU ?
Cheers,
Dean
Hello all,
@chrisC
I deleted the zip because something was wrong with my PC.
@dean_mcgowan
no, I only have a very cold garage as my workplace for my TPU research. Im only saying:
BUILD THIS F...G FEW COILS LIKE IN THE 3 STACK PICTURE!!!!!!! and be carefull with your fingers, ha,ha.
Otto
Otto,
Which picture from Mannix? He has done so many. Vague descriptions and guess works will only push people round the circle another time.
We must help each other here because our governments will not.
Regards
AM
Hello all,
@AM
the 3 stack.jpg and the coilddd.jpg.
The 3 stack works good and the coilddd I didnt had the time to build it.
I hope the people will discuss the 2 posts from "dfro".
Otto
EDIT: I forgot: google - pulse current multiplier, PCM, look at Google books, maybe this can help us.
Hello all,
Otto:
WELL DONE, IT'S TIME FOR TPU BUILDERS TO WAKE-UP
Roberto
@chef
OK what are we dealing with?
Hello all,
@Roberto
yes, lets have fun.
@Chef
I KNOW you will find here very soon a schematic and everything needed for a working TPU.
I dont care with what Im dealing here because I dont want to spit on my and other peoples work. Here are soooo nice people and they deserve to have a TPU made by myself or another fine guy here, I really dont care.
I JUST WANT A TPU, NOTHING MORE. I almost forgot: I want to SHARE my results.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 18, 2007, 05:30:15 AM
Hello all,
@Roberto
yes, lets have fun.
@Chef
I KNOW you will find here very soon a schematic and everything needed for a working TPU.
I dont care with what Im dealing here because I dont want to spit on my and other peoples work. Here are soooo nice people and they deserve to have a TPU made by myself or another fine guy here, I really dont care.
I JUST WANT A TPU, NOTHING MORE. I almost forgot: I want to SHARE my results.
Otto
Otto
You are a good Guy and you will succseed.
Helmut
removed double post
Quote from: Chef on December 18, 2007, 05:11:29 AM
I hope, i will never find here manual for simple working TPU.
If you want to post, you still not REALIZED, what are you dealing with!
@Chef
Is your preference to experience thousands of thermonuclear bombs going off in a fight over the last energy resources?
I hope I never experience large-scale nuclear war because a new source of energy was not found. There have already been umpteen thousands of atomic bombs dropped over Iraq and this DU poison is slowing being blown around the globe and will be destroying the human genome for billions of years to come.
As the energy crisis (better called the stupidity crisis) continues, all nation states and governments will collapse, anarchy and local war lords will reign as the world population rapidly drops to 100 million. On the way down from 8 or 10 BILLION, many people will be forced to practice cannibalism, as high-yield hydrocarbon-fertilizer-based agriculture collapses. Governments, politicians, security agencies, and military all combined together have a maximum IQ around 10 with respect to planetary governance. Since they have totally failed, it is up to the people to find a solution, for better or for worse.
100 000 unstable TPUs is still a lot better than 100 000 hydrogen bombs in the hands of unstable non-leaders, some wishing the destruction of the world to usher in the rapture to the Kingdom of God.
If the fact of six fully armed nuclear advanced cruise missiles flying over USA, totally outside the strict chain of command, and involving the mystery deaths of half a dozen airmen did not wake you up - nothing will.
But, maybe I have a distorted way of looking at things?
Earl
Hello all,
@Helmut
WE All will have the success. I really dont want to expose myself. I want to work now.
@Earl
your way of looking to the problems are for myself OK
@All
Guys, a work must be done. The most people here are better in English then Im, so let us look at "dfros" 2 posts and see what and how to build our TPUs. Lets see what he is telling us, lets discuss his words.
Otto
Quote from: dfro on November 26, 2007, 07:43:29 PM
Hello fellow reverse engineers.
I have been following this forum, watching the videos, and pondering how the TPU works. I think it is an authentic freedom energy device.
I consider myself very much a novice in electronics, but maybe my conjectures could shed some new light on the "guess what answer I am thinking of" game we are all trying to play here with SM. Please, pardon any major electronics dumb statements I make that reveal my inexperience in this field. I hope my thoughts are not too disorganized and hard to follow, also.
I would like to start by commenting about the "rotating magnetic field" mystery. I have been thinking a lot about that. What I think is happening is SM has set up sets of inductive coils that are oriented in two, possibly three different directions. On his small device there is the collector coil, which is wrapped around the circumference of the main circle. I think he has wrapped the collector coil around the circumference several times, but since the wire strands are packed in with no kind of wrapping orientation (the strands are not wrapped side by side along a core or hollow tube), the magnetic flux lines look like they would be for a single strand. However, he has augmented the collector coil with other vertical coils, which seem to be wrapped around metal cores (and on which he placed the magnets in one video). These windings could be extensions of the collector coil and connected in series with it and each other. The input coils are oriented in such a way that their flux lines are 90 degrees to the output coil and vertical coils. Again, I think the collector coil is somehow wired in series with the vertical coils. Other sets of coils, which I don't see in any of the pictures could be oriented as if the windings were wrapping around imaginary wheel spokes.
I also think this device is harnessing and augmenting the radiant energy surges that come from very quick, high voltage pulses. I remember Bedini or Tesla or Bearden saying that the more resistance across the voltage spike, the more electrons that piles up on the negative side of the circuit being excited. The trick is to let the electrons pile up and then switch them into the circuit without destroying the dipole . The inductive coils seem to be perfect for this. The voltage spike hits the input coil, the high inductive reactance resists electron flow and then as the magnetic field builds and collapses, the electrons move. I think he has all of the coils attached to capacitors to create resonant tank circuits. Also, I think he might have a diode in series with the capacitors of the tank circuits so that the current can only flow in one direction (maybe not, though). No current is ever allowed to flow when the pulse hits the coil. The kick hits a back-emf wall when it occurs, pulls in the radiant energy current surge, and then lets the current flow in the input coil when the induced magnetic field is building and decaying. With the current flowing in the input coil, its magnetic flux induces a current and flux in the collector coil. Using the flux created in the collector coil is one of the secrets, I think.
I also think he is using a small battery in all the devices to run the pulse control circuitry. I imagine there are a few 555 ic's that are driving some kind of fast, high voltage mosfet driver to make 1 to 4 sets of very fast, short on-time pulses, which are harmonics of each other. I would suggest doing pulse ratios that are in the Fibonacci series or each pulse being the previous pulse times phi. However, the pulses may be tuned to a chord, like a major chord - root, fifth, octave, tenth (just a thought). He has written about striking the right chord, correct? I also think he has a solid state diode/cap circuit to step up the voltage from the battery for the pulses. I remember reading about how to do this using diodes, caps, and pulses - it is basic stuff, which I don't know how to do yet.
When the fast, high voltage kick hits the first input coil and inducing current, its flux lines build and cut through the collector coil, causing current to be induced in the collector coil. It also induces current in the vertically oriented coils that are adjacent to the first input coil. I imagine that these are wired in series with the collector coil. The magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1. I also imagine that the adjacent vertical coil is wrapped in such a way that it induces a current (and thus magnetic flux) in the second input coil. So when the now faster (1.618: 1 faster?) kicks hit the second coil, there is already current moving and flux building. The second input coil is also attached to a resonant tank circuit which is tuned to have its resonant peak at the frequency of the pulses. I think the collector coil and its vertical coils have caps in series, also. They form part of a LC resonant tank circuit but also store the voltage to power any attached load. It think the collector coil with the vertical coils is tuned to have its resonance at the lowest fundamental frequency, and the input coils are harmonics of that - possibly odd order harmonics, Fibonacci series, phi, major chord, or empirically tuned by watching the behavior on a scope.
When the kicks on coil 2 pull in the radiant energy current surge, that induces current and flux in the collector coil and the next adjacent vertical coil, which is wrapped in such a way that it induces current and flux in the next input coil (3). This continues around the circle with the magnetic field cork screwing around the circumference of the main collector coil circle. When the magnetic surge makes it round the circuit, it acts as positive feedback for the first input coil. I also think this cork-screwing and spinning of the magnetic fields pulls in more radiant energy, which causes the current to keep flowing in the same direction. If the pulses and resonance were optimized, the tpu would quickly pull in too much voltage and cause catastrophic arcs through the wire insulation or capacitor insulation. This is why SM tunes the circuit off frequency slightly. You can also see he has put fuses on the big tpu device.
I do not think the earth's magnetic resonance is critical to the operating of the tpu. It is a radiant energy device pulling its energy from the vacuum. I think you can pick different sets of frequencies. In his first small device, maybe SM thought the earth's vibrating magnetic field played a role, but the later devices vibrated much faster. By setting up his device to resonate at 7.3 Hz, maybe there was a significant braking effect from the earth's flux that happened when he turned the device upside down. The magnet on the small device probably just triggered a magnetic switch that turned on the device. He has said that the magnets are not critical to the operation of the device, correct? On the larger device where he turns it on by placing two magnets, I think that he purposely underwound those two coils so that they would not produce enough flux to keep the positive feedback building. The magnets were used to augment the flux of those two coils and allow the turbine effect to build.
Also, I think that high ohm leakage resistors are placed in parallel with each capacitor in the various tank circuits. On the large tpu it looks like he has resistors across the pair of vertically oriented caps. These dissipate the voltage on the caps when the device is turned off as a safety measure. They also serve to bleed some of the current and create some extra ac "hash" on the dc current, which causes additional resonance in the tank circuits. It also causes the vibration of the device, which also contributes to the flux of adjacent coils inducing more voltage and current much like a guitar pickup picks up the vibration of a metal string. Maybe all of the coil wire should be ferrous? Has SM said anything about what kind of metal the wire is made of? This vibration and the current drawn from the device when it is powering a load are what cause the device to heat up. I imagine having a bank of several units wired in parallel to abate overheating issues.
On the big tpu device the inductive coils in the center might be there because he needed a certain amount of induction for his vertical collector coils, but he did not need all of the coil to be close to the input coils creating the positive magnetic feedback. It may have been a way of maximizing the LC tank resonance but reducing some of the positive magnetic feedback.
I think the gyroscopic effect comes from the cork-screwing magnetic field that is constantly circling around the circumference of the device. This also seems to match his statements about the tpu acting as a turbine or an accelerometer.
Please, let me know what you think, everyone (including you, SM). I have to study a lot more before I can draw up a possible circuit to test.
AND
Quote from: dfro on November 28, 2007, 07:43:36 PM
otto,
I would like to ask some questions about your TPU design. I preface my comments and questions by saying that I don't understand your design yet and I will be trying to get up to speed on other threads. I am a total beginner in this, so take what I say much like a child asking, "why is the sky blue." (That is actually a very deep question, by the way.) Anyway...
I think you have got the essential nature of the device. Your results are very exciting! I think you and the other researchers are heroes. I am not certain why you have the 4" loop. I seem to remember that you are using it to pick up the rising magnetic field caused by the control coils. Could one or more multi-turn coils in the vertical plane be essential to stability of the device? All of SM's devices have a vertical rim. If there was not a need for something oriented vertically, I think he would have made it flat. On his smallest device, it looks like there is a single vertical coil wrapped around some kind of core in the middle. On the device where he places two magnets, he has what look like four metal cores with what I imagine would be coils wrapped around them. Could these coils, which I think are in series with the collector coil, be essential for stability. Could the extra inductance help seed the signal? Maybe SM found that placing vertical coils in between the control coils helped in some way.
Also, why not try to step up the control coil voltage using pulses, diodes and caps? Maybe a little higher voltage and more inductance is one of the keys to the TPU not running away on you. Could this make it easier to stay well off of a perfect frequency conversion while still getting your seed that builds?
Just some thoughts.
Also
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg63021.html#msg63021
Now we don't have to kump around!
AM
Hello AM,
thanks for your help. My knowledge about PCs is like my English, a disaster, thanks.
It would be great if you would help us in analysing this posts.
Of course, the other great thinkerers on this forum are also welcome. I dont have to mention who are here the good thinkerers??? No.
@Chef
here are serious people and they know about the risk.
Otto
Hello AM,
thanks for your help. My knowledge about PCs is like my English, a disaster, thanks.
It would be great if you would help us in analysing this posts.
Of course, the other great thinkerers on this forum are also welcome. I dont have to mention who are here the good thinkerers??? No.
@Chef
here are serious people and they know about the risk.
Otto
Hello AM,
thanks for your help. My knowledge about PCs is like my English, a disaster, thanks.
It would be great if you would help us in analysing this posts.
Of course, the other great thinkerers on this forum are also welcome. I dont have to mention who are here the good thinkerers??? No.
@Chef
here are serious people and they know about the risk.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 18, 2007, 03:49:52 AM
google - pulse current multiplier, PCM, look at Google books, maybe this can help us.
@Otto
thanks for the info.
For the lazy:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0RmkmrFxHM0C&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=%22pulse+current+multiplier%22&source=web&ots=0qRN_Mduh_&sig=Bn9r7iztcmCR1xE0CiM4qhcDCkM#PPA108,M1
I ordered this book:
Quest for Zero Point Energy: Engineering Principles for Free Energy By Moray B. King.I think it is very relevant ( and cheap ).
Your English is fine.
@chef
If you know something then spell it out. People in "cluster bomb" factory are not worried about death and injury. Why should we be.
Do you know something from experience? Please don't quote from other people telling you XYZ was hit with a bolt of lightening whilst
messing with his TPU.
When my son was 4 years old I gave him the sharpest biggest knife in the kitchen and made him cut a tomato and told him about the dangers.
I also gave him the matches and helped him understand what fire was.
You dont learn and grow by sticking your head in a box.
AM
Quote from: Chef on December 18, 2007, 07:49:43 AM
Quote from: Earl on December 18, 2007, 06:35:47 AM
Quote from: Chef on December 18, 2007, 05:11:29 AM
I hope, i will never find here manual for simple working TPU.
If you want to post, you still not REALIZED, what are you dealing with!
@Chef
Is your preference to experience thousands of thermonuclear bombs going off in a fight over the last energy resources?
I hope I never experience large-scale nuclear war because a new source of energy was not found. There have already been umpteen thousands of atomic bombs dropped over Iraq and this DU poison is slowing being blown around the globe and will be destroying the human genome for billions of years to come.
As the energy crisis (better called the stupidity crisis) continues, all nation states and governments will collapse, anarchy and local war lords will reign as the world population rapidly drops to 100 million. On the way down from 8 or 10 BILLION, many people will be forced to practice cannibalism, as high-yield hydrocarbon-fertilizer-based agriculture collapses. Governments, politicians, security agencies, and military all combined together have a maximum IQ around 10 with respect to planetary governance. Since they have totally failed, it is up to the people to find a solution, for better or for worse.
100 000 unstable TPUs is still a lot better than 100 000 hydrogen bombs in the hands of unstable non-leaders, some wishing the destruction of the world to usher in the rapture to the Kingdom of God.
If the fact of six fully armed nuclear advanced cruise missiles flying over USA, totally outside the strict chain of command, and involving the mystery deaths of half a dozen airmen did not wake you up - nothing will.
But, maybe I have a distorted way of looking at things?
Earl
Nobody cant change the world! World change because of money, and flow on money tracks.....
I dont know how old are you, but if you think you or this forum peoples can change the world with some oscillation, what THEY still NOT UNDERSTAND fully how dangerous can be,you need to be very young, or very naive.
Let's look who will die first in experiments,and i am NOT JOKING!
Ps.: Do you want to give to your child KNIFE? Of course no, because he can heart him. So You give to him KNIFE only, when he enough old, and can fully understand how need to use the KNIFE to not hurt peoples or himself.
Have a good fun!
Bye
I grew up in wv where we were all learned how to use a gun at a very young age. You hardly ever hear about a kid in this area shooting himself or others by accident. When you look at most of the larger cities though, accidental shootings happen all the time. The kids get hold of their parents guns and have no idea about the proper usage and dangers of that weapon and then blam... . So I as you which is better, teaching someone about the proper usage and dangers of something, or hiding it from them hoping they don't find it? If you know something share you knowledge and teach people proper usage, or they are going to find things out the hard way sooner or later. I personally don't know how someone could live with themselves if they let this happen.
I have been playing around with the idea of using spark gaps. Please do not take this post as a suggestion as I am just playing around with this right now. But you have to admit that if spark gaps work that would be way cool. What else can be used to deliver as sharp of a flow of electrons through control coils?
The hand made spark gap I put together requires around 1,200 volts give or take 200 volts before break over. A 1,200 volts supply feeds a resistor capacitor circut. Once the capacitor charges to the break over voltage it discharges through the spark gap. This is a relaxation oscillator using the spark gap as the threshold.
The high voltage with my crude set up is not allowing me to get descent readings. I have tried gas tube arrestors used in telecommunications but they do not
seem to breakdown at a lower voltage. Tried the solid state lightning protectors as well and they just clamp.
If I could get my hands on some lower voltage spark gaps I think firing each individual control coil could end up being self timed as long as the coils I got are wound correctly and the right resistor capacitor values are picked.
I would like to get a hold of a spark gap that would break over at around 30 volts if that is possible. I would look into using something that would break over at 100 volts. Whatever is out there that could work at a lower voltage I would like to know about. Please let me know if there are any solutions for me to go after for a lower voltage spark gap. They are going to probably end up being a tube with some inert gas. I have seen some of these spark gaps with some radio activity on the electrodes as well.
Can anybody let me know if by using the gas and other methods to reduce the required voltage is going to slow down the electron flow through the gap and coil.
I just got off the phone with Perkin Elmer and an applications dude said they had to remove some of their spark gaps from the web site due to homeland security.
Quote from: slapper on December 18, 2007, 10:34:34 AM
I have been playing around with the idea of using spark gaps. Please do not take this post as a suggestion as I am just playing around with this right now. But you have to admit that if spark gaps work that would be way cool. What else can be used to deliver as sharp of a flow of electrons through control coils?
The hand made spark gap I put together requires around 1,200 volts give or take 200 volts before break over. A 1,200 volts supply feeds a resistor capacitor circut. Once the capacitor charges to the break over voltage it discharges through the spark gap. This is a relaxation oscillator using the spark gap as the threshold.
The high voltage with my crude set up is not allowing me to get descent readings. I have tried gas tube arrestors used in telecommunications but they do not
seem to breakdown at a lower voltage. Tried the solid state lightning protectors as well and they just clamp.
If I could get my hands on some lower voltage spark gaps I think firing each individual control coil could end up being self timed as long as the coils I got are wound correctly and the right resistor capacitor values are picked.
I would like to get a hold of a spark gap that would break over at around 30 volts if that is possible. I would look into using something that would break over at 100 volts. Whatever is out there that could work at a lower voltage I would like to know about. Please let me know if there are any solutions for me to go after for a lower voltage spark gap. They are going to probably end up being a tube with some inert gas. I have seen some of these spark gaps with some radio activity on the electrodes as well.
Can anybody let me know if by using the gas and other methods to reduce the required voltage is going to slow down the electron flow through the gap and coil.
I just got off the phone with Perkin Elmer and an applications dude said they had to remove some of their spark gaps from the web site due to homeland security.
The breakdown voltage of a gap is determined by several factors including the distance between the electrodes - so try moving them closer together. Commercial sark gap tubes are desinged for various breakdown voltage levels, various gas mixtures, and electrode materials. I've seen some on Ebay several times - like to ones Eric Dollard used in his video.
I started this thread a while back for spark-gaps: (no one is interested...)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3674.msg61873.html#msg61873
A standard neon bulb will fire at around 90v and the ones that you get from the shack have a small resistor on them for use on direct line or 125v. Should fit the bill and cheap too.
thaelin
Thanks Thaelin. I was thinking about neon bulbs. I'll give it a try. Heck I've tried everything else immediately available to me. I'm just afraid of the impedance and parasitic capacitance.
I know Grumpy that you and many other are working with spark gaps in this application and I agree with you. I checked the other posts and it just seems that the high voltage gets me erroneous results. I am hoping that good low voltage spark gaps provide for better measurable findings.
Thanks again and take care.
nap
Oh, yeah! We're supposed to use tubes...I forgot.
what?
where did that sprak gap come from?
It's ultra-fast rotating fields and something that changes at a certain speed/voltage.
electrons gain in mass as velocity becomes extreme.
we need to convert the mass back into electricity fast enough.(cancel flux,speed up,cancel the flux cancelling action, kaboom)
Where does a spark gap fit in this?
M.
@marco,
I am with you. I think discussion of spark gaps should move to where ever grumpy pointed out.
Now back to the TPU....
AM
yes well in any case we can use a single wire and flow electrons thrue it in diffrent directions.(only relating to their potential power source)
for a simple example we put in 10 volts from left to right, and also 10 volts from right to left in the same wire, and the resulting flux will be close to zero.
offcource the electrons will cause an action similair to friction and so the wire will heat up.
then we can use a DC which travels on the inside of the conductor and another high frequency signal which travels on the outside due to skin effect to minimize this heating action.
and then we can turn this wire into a coil, and we are working "out of the box" so to speak.
then we can actually slap frequency's together in a single wire or coil, like two transformers in reverse.
if our core is a copper wire, we get eddy currents and who knows...
M.
spark gap is merely an easy switch
Come on Marco. You mentioned Dollard and others a long time ago. Dust those books back off and have a look.
I will be glad to post this in a different thread but I thought I would let you guys in on what I found with Thaelin's suggestion using a neon bulb as a low voltage spark gap. The impedance of the neon bulb seems to be to high as the discharge of the capacitor is to slow. Produces pretty flashes though :)
I am performing these tests on a version of a tpu; single collector coil made from insulated electric fence wire with four control coils. I am currently running tests with one of the control coils. The 1,200 volt spark gap is playing way to many games with me. I am back in the hunt for the low voltage spark gap solution.
Thanks again.
nap
Quote from: Grumpy on December 18, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
How do you induce electrons flowing in opposite directions? Hows does this effect the votlage and current in the wire?
Why don't you try it?
It's quite easy, but it won't fit your book.
If you want to stick to the spark gap fine....i don't care.
M.
Hello all,
I tried to filter out the most important words from "dfros" 2 postings. I was mostly interested in HOW to build our devices. Maybe I missed something so feel free to add some points.
Post no.1
1.Collector coil wrapped around the circumference SEVERAL TIMES
2.Augmented the collector coil with other vertical coils, which seem to be wrapped around METAL CORES
3.These windings could be extensions of the collector coil and connected in SERIES with it and EACH OTHER
4.Other sets of coils could be oriented as if the windings were wrapping around imaginary wheel spokes????
5.Very quick HV pulses
6.All of the coils attached to CAPACITORS to create tank circuits
7.A DIODE IN SERIES with the caps of the tank circuits
8.a little battery to run the pulse control circuitry
9.A few 555 Ics for driving some kind of fast HV MOSFET driver to make 1 - 4 sets of very fast, short on-time pulses, which are HARMONICS of each other
10.SS diode/cap circuit to step up the voltage from the BATTERY for the pulses
11.The magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees ( THIS MEANS WE NEED 4 CONTROL COILS) and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1.....
12.Collector coil and its vertical coils have CAPS IN SERIES, ALSO
13.Collector with the vertical coils is tuned to have its resonance at the LOWEST fundamental frequency, and the input coils are the HARMONICS of that
14.HIGH OHM LEAKAGE RESISTORS are placed in PARALLEL with EACH capacitor in the various tank circuits.
Post no.2
1.Smallest device - single vertical coil wrapped around some kind of CORE in the middle
2.On the device where he places 2 magnets, he has what look like 4 METAL CORES with what I imagine would be coils wrapped around them
I used "dfros" words.I hope I didnt forget something. Again, this is only how to build a TPU. Some confusion is about his names for the various coils.
collector = collector
input coil = control coil
vertical coil = feedback coil
I hope we have now something to discuss and finally get better results with our TPUs.
Otto
@Otto,
Thanks for summarizing dfro post. Anyway I've not clear one point:
when dfro speaks about the vertical coils (those with iron core and magnet on top) and perhaps also about the 4 input coils, I think he's referring to the 'Open TPU' not the standard 6" or 15" TPU as it seems that in the upmentioned units there are no vertical coils (I may be wrong, who knows?).
Said observation is supported by the fact that the 3StackTPU dwg does show only one continuous input coil per ring (that we call Control Coil....NO vertical or other coils).
Again we know that SM made several TPU designs often using different criteria. So may be wrong mixing different designs.
Roberto
Hello all,
@Roberto,
its a little ......I tried the 3 stack with 1 control coil for each collector and it works great. I also tried the 3 stack with 3 controls for each collector and the result was the same, I hope. So I dont think we have to complicate. I will use 3 collectors and for each collector 1 control coil "wound all around....." but I want to figure out the resonance frequency for each collector + his control coil.
We already know that the collectors are a few turns of lamp wire. How many turns? It depends on the resonance. It will be a f...g job to cut the lamp wire and get the resonance but it has to be done.
The drawing showes us only the princip of winding. If there would be shown the feedback coils (vertical coils) there would be a mess.
Now the next question is about the frequencies used in the 6" TPU. We already know the frequencies of the 15" TPU: 245kHz, 35kHz, 5kHz.
In my tests with the 3 stack TPU I saw only at 245kHz, as the highest frequency, building the well known kicks + little sine waves. Of course I had to mix this highest frequency with a lower one.
I will try this 3 frequencies in my newest 6" TPU. A resonance is needed, made with caps......like dfro describes. And not to forget to rise the PS voltage. Not anymore 24VDC but between 200 - 300V or higher?? Maybe in kilovolts.
This will be my first steps.
Otto
@ Otto,
well, as always you are running in front of all us. I have not yet had the opportunity to run tests on the new unit not to mention the several possible configurations but I do agree with you that the simple 3Stack solution, at least at for the moment, seems the best. This make sense also in order to gain the additional knowledge necessary to manage these new 'input coils'.
Going with order I think that I will firstly make a complete set of measurements (inductance, resistance, stray-capacitance, etc), then I'll calculate the theoretical auto resonance of the various coil-sets and then the tank capacitances necessary to resonate the coils at said frequencies (past experiences lead me to consider that the 7th harmonic is indeed the correct one: so I'll tune the coils to 5 - 35 - 245KHz).
Only after that preliminary work I will run the new tests.
Roberto
Hello all,
TPUs are CONVERSION devices and we know this already.
My question is: what is converted in a TPU???
Yes,yes, we know that but isnt there something else that is converted???
Why do we need the kicks???
This are questions for the thinkerers here.
Otto
HEEEEEJ, I WANT A DISCUSSION.
Otto,
I thought the kicks were just a side effect.
AM
Hello AM,
Side effect....hmmmm....of what??? Ha,ha a question answered by a new question.
Otto
@Otto
I am getting out of the box here.
If you wash a plate or a glass and run your finger along the edge your skin occasionally sticks to the plate and then moves again. If you do this correctly
on a glass you make it ring. Now you are doing this with an electronic/electric device but your friction medium is perhaps gravity.
This is a very important question: When you get these kicks, does anything happen to the weight of your coil?
By the way, I could be completely wrong.
AM
Hello AM,
forgive me to "answer" your question with my question.
Youre complete right and I posted this a long time ago: I saw when my coil was slow kicked ( maybe 1 - 5 Hz) that the weight was going down and up to normal. This means when a kick hits a coil that in such a moment the coils weight is decreased. Gravity.....not perhaps. It IS gravity.
You gave me an idea: I want to see this effect at really fast kicked coils. Yes, I know what to expect but Im interested in the % of the weight the coils will lose.
Otto
A time ago people made jokes with my post about the weight lose in a TPU. No, a TPU doesnt fly but in another configuration, hmmmm.....my imagination plays games with me.
Otto
@Otto
I am glad you confirmed that.
Even in SM's videos i think they called this effect Gyroscopic effect! Now I am sure TPU and anti gravity are in the same realm.
Regards
AM
Hi Otto:
I have not had the means to do thoes things that I feel necessary. One is the epuipment I have is OK but could be better. I now am in the get for a signal gen that will go up to 400MHZ and a freq counter that goes to 1ghz. My other ones would only to 1 and 2. Now I can proceed a bit better. I arrives today. I can do far more towards the cause.
Many thanks for the PCM info. That has been a boon for me. Tho it will have to be matched to the freq range it will be used in, that will open up doors to better things. Time to fly
thaelin
Hello all,
@AM
yes!
@Thaelin and all
More tomorrow. Finally to my workbench.
Otto
So, I'm done here. Too many here that just don't "get it".
Quote from: Grumpy on December 19, 2007, 09:55:23 AM
Otto,
I would love to discuss this, but someone PM'd me and basically said I was full of shite and "very far away from the road to what it actually does".
So, I'm done here. Too many here that just don't "get it".
@Grumpy
If anyone claims to know anything let him prove it first otherwise they can crawl back in their hole.
How can someone for instance tell you playing with a TPU can kill you if they have not built one?
So what is it that too many don't get here?
Quote from: -[marco]- on December 19, 2007, 01:46:41 AM
Quote from: Grumpy on December 18, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
How do you induce electrons flowing in opposite directions? Hows does this effect the votlage and current in the wire?
Why don't you try it?
It's quite easy, but it won't fit your book.
If you want to stick to the spark gap fine....i don't care.
M.
Correct. Fits the books pretty well actually. Not exact, but similar.
Quote from: AhuraMazda on December 19, 2007, 10:05:07 AM
@Grumpy
If anyone claims to know anything let him prove it first otherwise they can crawl back in their hole.
How can someone for instance tell you playing with a TPU can kill you if they have not built one?
So what is it that too many don't get here?
I said "I'm done here."
@Grumpy
You'll be back!
During the time that one control coil is receiving energy from a source I do not see any significant energy coming out on the collector. It is when I release the power source from the control coil is when I see energy output on the collector coil.
If I drive the coil with a MOSFET I can see when the coil goes into saturation but little to no output on the collector. When the MOSFET switches off I get damping oscillations on the control coil and I get the same oscillations on the collector coil. The oscillations are due to the LC tank created by the MOSFET's capacitance combined with the control coil's inductance.
This is the direction I am currently on right now. I am not saying a dc pulse method is the direction to go. I like what others are doing with resonance and harmonics. I just want to explore the dc pulse avenue before I move on.
I like the characteristics of a complete open on the off cycle because I see a nice dc pulse out on the collector as opposed to oscillations. I am curious if others have observed similar effects.
Thanks and take care.
nap
@otto
I think the rodin coil can be used for a variety of communication and other apps if the proper field is curled the same on either end, providing a carrier base ..... The use of 3 interferometers at different vectors can be modulated into a data stream and sent through that bad boy... Tell me what you think .. Grumpy is on board as well... I remember him mentioning this flavor of the device and im just sitting here going ... redundant backup transceiver ... huge bandwith ;D
Joe
Hello all,
@Grumpy
you are yeeery welcome here. You know, the good PMs Im answering and the bad Im IGNORING.
I can easily happen that I also dont "get it" (Im not the brightest here!!!) and it happened with the 3 stack (I didnt understand this picture in the beginning) but I call it "evolution of my brain". I had a lot of other TPUs until I could understand whats about the 3 stack, so, ignore the bad guys and let us make our "job" - and have a good discussion.
@Localjoe
transceiver - Im all the time emitting signals to my radio (in the MHz band) in the hope that my TPU would receive "energy", to say so.
@All,
You remember my questions yesterday.
A TPU converts the ZPE or call it how you want, into usefull energy. If this is not the case then I can only ask you all, how lights SM a few bulbs without a power supply?? Batteries??? Dont make jokes!!!
How can WE get this extra energy with our kicks??
We have kicks in the range of hundreds of volts but at low amperes. If we use a PCM (pulse current multiplier) we can achieve this.
The point is that such a PCM is in "stages". Now imagine the 1. stage: the lowest frequency starts the tornado. This tornado is accelerated in the 2. stage and gets finished at a very fast rotation in the 3. stage. Of course, we must keep in our minds "dfros" words. But the point is that a PCM "converts" our HV kicks into useable lower voltage higher current kicks or sines. I think sines. I didnt try it but I will.
A long time ago I had a very nice light from a 100W bulb with only 130V kicks shown on my scope. This means that we dont need huge kicks to light a bulb.
Is there maybe a guy that "jumps out" with a drawing of a TPU but in the sence of dfros words??
Otto
Its more then enough of my "theory".
@Otto,
You stated the main proof. 'Watch your fingers'. That statement is proof enough. ;)
Now let me state mine. 'Guard your brain'. 8)
This is for the new guys.
The light bulb test is just a light bulb at the end of a Tesla type coil configuration. Instead of seeing bluish purple sparks we see yellow light. The light bulb is merely resistance to the high speed Radiant energy.
Instead of slowing down the energy I chose to work with it at its natural speed. It connected the tpu across the stun gun and saw the plasma arc around the ring. That was cool. Dartlets, just like Telsa said. I also connected a 4 foot loop of audio cable across the stun gun, the coil and my homemade 6 inch spark gap. The next day a rocket fell out of the sky over my my hometown of Denver. Tesla also talked about that. What are the odds?
--giantkiller. I always have fun.
Quote from: ronotte on December 19, 2007, 04:45:11 AM
...when dfro speaks about the vertical coils (those with iron core and magnet on top) and perhaps also about the 4 input coils, I think he's referring to the 'Open TPU' not the standard 6" or 15" TPU as it seems that in the upmentioned units there are no vertical coils (I may be wrong, who knows?).
Said observation is supported by the fact that the 3StackTPU dwg does show only one continuous input coil per ring (that we call Control Coil....NO vertical or other coils).
Again we know that SM made several TPU designs often using different criteria. So may be wrong mixing different designs.
@Roberto,
Perhaps the four vertical coil design detail 'evolved' over time. It may have started with the open TPU as the four pillars positioned between the two disks, then these four vertical coils moved onto the two center toroids of the largest TPUs, and then ended up inside the 'control circuit bulge area' taped to the inside edge of the later, smaller TPUs. :-\
@Giantkiller, how have you been?
Hey guys,
Rereading some of SM the other night, and thinking, I have a question. Have anyone on this forum attempted to use Litz wire for the collectors, or even for the ECD? More and more I think that when SM said lamp chord he figured we would understand it to be litz wire. I feel that so much stronger, after again rereading SM's following statement:
SM' words:
"Let me give you something to think about...
If you had a short wire and you moved a magnet across it you would always have limited potential because the length of wire was so short.
OK now what if we increase the length of the wire to many miles in length even with a very weak magnetic field moving across the wire you still have a much greater potential flow of power available.
If we put it into a perspective of power per inch it may be easier to understand.
If you have a small magnetic field moving across a wire twelve inches long it can generate an electron flow equal to lets say one millivolt per inch.
If you move the magnet twelve inches at the same speed you get 12 millivolts as you transgress the twelve inches of wire.
Understand that I am trying to convey a principal that you can understand for use in the future.
So, you have a wire twelve inches long and you can make 12 millivolts moving a magnet across it.
If you have a wire 1000 feet long and you move the same small magnetic field across the length of it you can create much more voltage potential perhaps 12,000 millivolts lets say.
So, you have managed to generate a significant amount of electric power with a weak magnetic force.
OK, how does this help us? where am I going with this?
Suppose you have 1,000 pieces of wire twelve inches long and you run the same weak magnetic field over them all at the same time..... you get the same flow of electrons.
If the wires are run in series then you will get the 12,000 millivolts etc.
If you connect the wires in parallel you will get higher current but lower voltage.
However, the power potential is the same whether you run the wires in series or parallel.
This is the same wording he used in describing the collectors as output! This sounds like 9 individual wraps of 106 strand litz wire. What if you took 3 individual wraps of litz per collector. You now have 954 individual wires for output in series or parallel. Compared to one wire all have been using. ;)
If you know how to find the circuit potential, you tune into the frequency and you have enough short pieces of wire you can convert as much power as you wish in a given space.
you would be fascinated with the amount of renewable energy you can extract from a permanent magnet!"
Hello all,
@btentzer
let us first clear up the therm "litz wire". Yes, we discussed it a long time ago. Lets do it again and then I will say something about it.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 21, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
Hello all,
@btentzer
let us first clear up the therm "litz wire". Yes, we discussed it a long time ago. Lets do it again and then I will say something about it.
Otto
If the Amercians use that term they mean a conductor made of multi-strand braided
insulated copper wires.
The German equivalent would be "verseilte Hochfrequenzlitze".
Please correct me if this is wrong.
edit: As a side note: I think Bruce's thoughts about the importance of this kind of wire are completely justified and correct.
Hello Gustav22
and for us is the litz wire a multi strand wire with the conductors NOT insulated between each other.
A yery long time ago I made some tests:
First I used a lamp cable 0,75mm2 as the collector. Then I used a 1,5mm2 cable with the same control coils. The bulb was shining brighter.
Then I made a 15" TPU with the same 1,5mm2 cable and the same controls. The bulb was again shining brighter. Always a 1 turn collector - what a disaster!! MULTITURN is needed!!!
Also a long time ago I made a collector with 1000 little copper wires. But as it was a long time ago I didnt know how to connect the controls to such a collector.....yes, now I know and can try it.
Just to see the difference between a lamp cable with a few wires in it and my biiiiig 1000 wires collectors.
In my ECD pdf you can see that I made various tests with other metals for a collector. Hmmm ....if I could buy nikel wires, maybe for collectors AND controls???
To use iron wires for a collector I dont want because it heats up. Aluminium wires are waiting for use as a collector? control??
Otto
Hallo Gustav
In our use of Terms it meens multistrandet wires as well.
Such as "hochflexibel".(Multistrandet but not insulatet against eachother)
The other version is used in LAN Networks.There you can find 8 insulatet wires .
Grouped in 4 pairs and each pair is
wound like a Rope ( Bedini like). This helps to protect the line against coupling and inerference.
Perhaps the Bedini Coils profit from this effekt as well.
So now the question:How to deal with it in a TPU?
from WIKI, and I totally agree
Litz wire is a special type of wire used in electronics. The wire is designed to reduce the skin effect and proximity effect losses in conductors. The resistance of a conductor at DC (0 Hz) is dependent upon the area of the conductor. Larger conductors have lower resistance. At AC frequencies, the skin effect causes most of the conduction to happen at the surface of conductor. At high enough frequencies, the interior of a large conductor does not carry much current. Quite simply, the resistance of a wire becomes higher at higher frequencies.
Litz wire consists of many thin wires, individually insulated and woven together to form a cable. The weave is designed so individual wires will reside for short intervals on the outside of cable and for short intervals on the inside of the cable. The weave causes the interior of the Litz wire to contribute to the cables conductivity.
The term litz wire originates from Litzendraht, German for braided wire.
In German, it is a little strange, For me in German, Litze always implies insulated wires, however some people may say that in German the term is HF-Litze.
From Wiki:
Die Litze (engl. stranded wire or litz wire) ist in der Elektrotechnik ein aus d?nnen Einzeldr?hten bestehender und daher leicht zu biegender elektrischer Leiter.
Die Einzeldr?hte der Litze (bis mehrere hundert) sind meistens von einer gemeinsamen Isolierh?lle umschlossen. Solche Leiter hei?en Litzenleitung. Sind mehrere solcher Leitungen in einem Kabel vereint, werden sie Adern genannt.
Da die Gefahr eines Leiterbruches durch Biegung bei Litzenleitungen wesentlich geringer ist als bei Massivdrahtleitern mit gleichem Querschnitt, werden diese vorrangig dort angewendet, wo eine h?ufige Bewegung oder R?ttelbeanspruchung stattfindet (Maschinen, Fahr- und Flugzeuge, Roboter) oder wenn ein mobiles Ger?t versorgt werden muss (elektrische Handger?te, steckbare Netzzuleitungen, Mikrofon- und Lautsprecherkabel).
Je nach erforderlicher Flexibilit?t und Beanspruchungsgrad verwendet man fein- oder feinstdr?htige Litzenleitungen.
Bei Hochfrequenz-Litzen (HF-Litze) sind die Einzeldr?hte voneinander durch eine Lackschicht isoliert, obwohl sie gleiches Potential f?hren. Dadurch kann in der Hochfrequenztechnik der Einfluss des Skineffekts verringert oder vermieden werden - ansonsten w?rde nur ein kleiner Teil des Gesamtquerschnittes am Stromtransport teilnehmen.
Unisolierte Litzen sind auch als Antennenlitze bekannt.
In summary, if we are talking about reducing skin effect losses, then in English it is Litz wire and in German HF-Litze. So in this forum if we use the English term HF-Litz, then it should be clear no matter what language you speak.
By the way, it has been proven that not only do the insulated wires have to be parallel and only electircally connected at each, but that they should also be twisted together for best effect.
Earl
Quote from: otto on December 21, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
Hello all,
@btentzer
let us first clear up the therm "litz wire". Yes, we discussed it a long time ago. Lets do it again and then I will say something about it.
Otto
@ Otto
Earl said it well, both in English and German! LOL
Each strand is teflon insulated. So you can end up with 1000 wires, just like SM said. This wire ONLY for the collector. It is very expensive wire.
@ All
Reread what I posted on what SM said about this. Litz wire is the only thing that fits. Lamp chord will make no difference, because each strand is not individually insulated. It was SM speak for Litz wire without coming out and saying Litz wire. And then he gave us that story on top of it. Insulate each strand and use that only for the collector and now you have understood what SM said.
I would go so far as to say (and I am not the only one who thinks this) that if this wire had already been used for many experiments, much better results would have been seen.
I will post again the pertinent part of SM's post. It is so simple, I do not understand why I did not really understand the principle he is relaying, earlier.
"Let me give you something to think about...
If you had a short wire and you moved a magnet across it you would always have limited potential because the length of wire was so short.
OK now what if we increase the length of the wire to many miles in length even with a very weak magnetic field moving across the wire you still have a much greater potential flow of power available.
If we put it into a perspective of power per inch it may be easier to understand.
If you have a small magnetic field moving across a wire twelve inches long it can generate an electron flow equal to lets say one millivolt per inch.
If you move the magnet twelve inches at the same speed you get 12 millivolts as you transgress the twelve inches of wire.
(This is what we have all been doing, one wire, but with magnetic fields!)Understand that I am trying to convey a principal that you can understand for use in the future.
(That future is now!)So, you have a wire twelve inches long and you can make 12 millivolts moving a magnet across it.
If you have a wire 1000 feet long and you move the same small magnetic field across the length of it you can create much more voltage potential perhaps 12,000 millivolts lets say.
(This is EXACTLY what Litz wire does for us! Without this main ingredient, we will never see OU with this device, IMHO.)So,
you have managed to generate a significant amount of electric power with a weak magnetic force.OK, how does this help us? where am I going with this?
Suppose you have 1,000 pieces of wire twelve inches long and you run the same weak magnetic field over them all at the same time.....
you get the same flow of electrons.
If the wires are run in series then you will get the 12,000 millivolts etc.
If you connect the wires in parallel you will get higher current but lower voltage.
However, the power potential is the same whether you run the wires in series or parallel.
(This part tells us EXACTLY how to either increase amperage, or have high voltage, depending on what we want for the output of the three collectors. I would strongly suggest building the Stack TPU but use 1000 pieces of wire for the total amount of the collectors. Litz wire.)If you know how to find the circuit potential, you tune into the frequency and you have enough short pieces of wire you can convert as much power as you wish in a given space.
(The circuit potential is probably close to the stack tpu drawing, if not it exactly. Frequency could possibly be the one that is the resonant frequency of our 1000 pieces of wire, which is SM's short pieces of wire comment here. I would further state, that I do not think that the control wires ever connect to the collectors. Call it a hunch. Induction.) you would be fascinated with the amount of renewable energy you can extract from a permanent magnet!"
(If you want to test this, run a magnet over 1 piece of wire and measure the output. Now run it over 1000 pieces. Which has the greater output?? ;) My guess is that SM played with permanent magnets and litz wire, quite a bit in his early days, and saw this very simplistic principle.)EDIT:
Litz Wire
MWS Wire Industries
31200 Cedar Valley Drive
Westlake Village, CA 91362
Phone: 818-991-8553
82.02 USD per pound, with a 2 pound minimum
55.86 USD per pound, with 10 pounds.
29 linear feet per pound
105 strands of copper, each is poly nylon coated. Each strand is 30 awg. Total wire (all strands) is 10 awg.
Quote #93921 When asking for it.
Bruce
@Bruce, @All,
I agree with Bruce's analysis 100%.
Twist 3 strands of 100'er HF-Litz together, then take 3 of these and twist them together and you will have 1000 strand HF-Litz.
Find some super solvent to dissolve the insulation, or build or buy a solder pot. I have found using electronic flux paste together with a solder pot to work very well.
Earl
double post deleted, see above.
I almost forgot....
I also have it on good source that Litz wire is braided to cancel the magnetic fields. That might help out the cannon ball effect, as induction onto the collectors zips them along, faster and faster! ;D
Litz is a TPU builders best friend. ;)
Merry Christmas,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on December 21, 2007, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: otto on December 21, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
Hello all,
@btentzer
let us first clear up the therm "litz wire". Yes, we discussed it a long time ago. Lets do it again and then I will say something about it.
Otto
@ Otto
Earl said it well, both in English and German! LOL
Each strand is teflon insulated. So you can end up with 1000 wires, just like SM said. This wire ONLY for the collector. It is very expensive wire.
@ All
Reread what I posted on what SM said about this. Litz wire is the only thing that fits. Lamp chord will make no difference, because each strand is not individually insulated. It was SM speak for Litz wire without coming out and saying Litz wire. And then he gave us that story on top of it. Insulate each strand and use that only for the collector and now you have understood what SM said.
I would go so far as to say (and I am not the only one who thinks this) that if this wire had already been used for many experiments, much better results would have been seen.
I will post again the pertinent part of SM's post. It is so simple, I do not understand why I did not really understand the principle he is relaying, earlier.
"Let me give you something to think about...
If you had a short wire and you moved a magnet across it you would always have limited potential because the length of wire was so short.
OK now what if we increase the length of the wire to many miles in length even with a very weak magnetic field moving across the wire you still have a much greater potential flow of power available.
If we put it into a perspective of power per inch it may be easier to understand.
If you have a small magnetic field moving across a wire twelve inches long it can generate an electron flow equal to lets say one millivolt per inch.
If you move the magnet twelve inches at the same speed you get 12 millivolts as you transgress the twelve inches of wire. (This is what we have all been doing, one wire, but with magnetic fields!)
Understand that I am trying to convey a principal that you can understand for use in the future. (That future is now!)
So, you have a wire twelve inches long and you can make 12 millivolts moving a magnet across it.
If you have a wire 1000 feet long and you move the same small magnetic field across the length of it you can create much more voltage potential perhaps 12,000 millivolts lets say. (This is EXACTLY what Litz wire does for us! Without this main ingredient, we will never see OU with this device, IMHO.)
So, you have managed to generate a significant amount of electric power with a weak magnetic force.
OK, how does this help us? where am I going with this?
Suppose you have 1,000 pieces of wire twelve inches long and you run the same weak magnetic field over them all at the same time..... you get the same flow of electrons.
If the wires are run in series then you will get the 12,000 millivolts etc.
If you connect the wires in parallel you will get higher current but lower voltage.
However, the power potential is the same whether you run the wires in series or parallel. (This part tells us EXACTLY how to either increase amperage, or have high voltage, depending on what we want for the output of the three collectors. I would strongly suggest building the Stack TPU but use 1000 pieces of wire for the total amount of the collectors. Litz wire.)
If you know how to find the circuit potential, you tune into the frequency and you have enough short pieces of wire you can convert as much power as you wish in a given space. (The circuit potential is probably close to the stack tpu drawing, if not it exactly. Frequency could possibly be the one that is the resonant frequency of our 1000 pieces of wire, which is SM's short pieces of wire comment here. I would further state, that I do not think that the control wires ever connect to the collectors. Call it a hunch. Induction.)
you would be fascinated with the amount of renewable energy you can extract from a permanent magnet!" (If you want to test this, run a magnet over 1 piece of wire and measure the output. Now run it over 1000 pieces. Which has the greater output?? ;) My guess is that SM played with permanent magnets and litz wire, quite a bit in his early days, and saw this very simplistic principle.)
EDIT:
Litz Wire
MWS Wire Industries
31200 Cedar Valley Drive
Westlake Village, CA 91362
Phone: 818-991-8553
82.02 USD per pound, with a 2 pound minimum
55.86 USD per pound, with 10 pounds.
29 linear feet per pound
105 strands of copper, each is poly nylon coated. Each strand is 30 awg. Total wire (all strands) is 10 awg.
Quote #93921 When asking for it.
Bruce
It makes perfect sense! Earlier this year I had no idea what Litz wire was, I thought it was just some funky lamp cord wire or something, but the fact that it's INSULATED from each strand is new. I can't wait to get my hands on some.
Apologies can someone post a link to the three stack diagram... many thanks,,, catching up...
A
@ Otto
You asked why your test unit lost weight. You might find the answer in the information related to torsion waves. A good starting point for understanding them can be found at http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=36 The Russians have been doing a lot of work on the aether and some of information from their experiments has been coming to the surface in recent years.
Quote from: btentzer on December 21, 2007, 03:10:03 PM
I almost forgot....
I also have it on good source that Litz wire is braided to cancel the magnetic fields. That might help out the cannon ball effect, as induction onto the collectors zips them along, faster and faster! ;D
Litz is a TPU builders best friend. ;)
Merry Christmas,
Bruce
Bruce,
The magnetic fields are not canceled at all. You would only achieve this if half the conductors were the return path.
The purpose of braiding the separate conductors of a Litz wire is to maximize equal current and flux sharing among the many conductors. The magnetic field is still present around the conductor group, as it would be in a standard multi-strand conductor.
Eddy currents (and hence skin effect) are reduced due to the insulated individual conductors. The magnetic field IS NOT canceled. Braiding causes averaging of each magnetic field
Yes, here it is:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
I will be building one of these with Litz wire...stay tuned! :) (I should have it done in a couple of weeks--waiting for the Litz to arrive)
Eldarion
Bruce, zpe is right,
I also believe that the "many conductors" that the magnetic field will "cut" are not necessarily the many strands of wire in the braided Litz wire. I would think this refers to the number of actual loops of wire, whatever it might be made of. It's all about finding that "circuit potential" :P
EM
@z_p_e,
Here is one reference that says that yes, the magnetic fields of the individual Litz strands are cancelled:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IiF5j4ItsfYC&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=litz+cancel+magnetic+field&source=web&ots=fVphzkDGbY&sig=HjUVi61mYe4MPcu9Q8Pnl5k1rnA
(Scroll down to the bottom of page 283)
Just something to think about.
Eldarion
Hi eldarion,
Drawing a few circles on a piece of paper does reveal that the fields internal to the overall outside surface do seem to cancel.
I guess I was thinking more in terms of any field detectable outside the wire as a whole. Of course it is still there. So internally, they do seem to cancel.
Which brings up something unrelated....two parallel conductors are supposed to attract each other when their currents are in the same direction (as would be the case in Litz wire), but as the fields appear to oppose in Litz wire, one would think that they would repel rather than attract?
Are the fields canceled in the "same direction" diagram, or are they adding?
The field gap there tells the story. Place several conductors in parallel, and the field around the internal conductors are significantly reduced.
My thoughts are:
Different current direction in the parallel conductors (e.g. typical application for lamp cord): repulsion
Same current direction (e.g. Litz wire): attraction
I wonder if this is the "kick", finally explained?
(Most vacuum tube filaments were not the coiled tungsten that is used in our everyday light bulbs--the filaments were comprised of many parallel filament segments to reduce hum induction to the plates--the filament was folded over itself numerous times so that it could be compacted into a small space. The parallel portions of the filament would repel each other and "kick" a bit when the current surged at turn-on...)
Eldarion
Hey, I just ran across this and I thought I'd post a link to it:
http://utenti.lycos.it/fischerconsulting/testatpu.html
Eldarion
@otto
Here are some ideas I have been considering by using bailing wire (BW) in the MTPU and LTPU. The only logical uses for BW is such a design is both for structure and the propagation of a mag field around the TPU. Designs can vary but in general, the use of one coil having bailing wire exiting from each end will provide a mag field. I have tested this in small scale. Now once this mag field is in place, you can wrap the collector coil or coils over this and send one or two simple audio frequencies (or other) and see it vibrate. This is just for new design considerations like how to use the rings in Mannixs design to propagate a mag field from inside the coils. This basically recreates a transformers armature that all coils need to transfer power.I would call the BW coil the control coil and this can be DC straight, pulsed or reverse pulsed. By pulsing, the mag field would be created and when off, this would leave stray static fields around the TPU.
Now if the collector was bifilar and you send frequencies into one, the other would vibrate in a mag field. My tests with Litz wire is the best for such uses. Audio frequencies of just 1 hz and 7 hz work the best and produce great wire movement.
The fact that the LTPU was producing about 850 watts of power leaves me to conclude that only 1 Litz wire would not support so much tension, thus the collector design would be in 3 or four segments in parallel, and this is evident when you look at the LPTU wiring diagram I put up in the Controls Inside thread.
I am also putting up a cut-away of the MTPU since I am convince this is the key. From day one, guys here looked at the cut-away and immediately said three stacked levels. So most of the others just shut up and went along. So....... show me were you see this. This one basic observation sent guys on a one year sprint. Do we risk this again. So there is no point to start unless one can analyze the cut-away, why he cut where he did, what is seen, etc. and the more important fact that the TPU design could still function after it was cut and after about 2 minutes of re-wiring. WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU? I have done this for endless hours and days and came up with the LTPU wire diagram located in the Control Inside thread. The design below (Alt. 2a) could fit this criteria very easily because even cut, the BW mag field could still work and some quick re-wiring of the collectors is all that is required.
Anyways some food for thought.
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 09:39:34 PM
Are the fields canceled in the "same direction" diagram, or are they adding?
The field gap there tells the story. Place several conductors in parallel, and the field around the internal conductors are significantly reduced.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D3779.0%3Battach%3D15587%3Bimage&hash=5b5eb51e2e8c1465b3791c3bba4366ce3cbb0b4a)
Would the reaction force vectors be the opposite way, instead?
EDIT: No. "...This behaviour derives from Amp?re's Law or the Biot-Savart force law which states that currents in the same direction attract while currents in the opposite direction repel..." http://www.plasmacosmology.net/tech.html (http://www.plasmacosmology.net/tech.html)
Quote from: Rosphere on December 20, 2007, 11:10:35 PM
...Perhaps the four vertical coil design detail 'evolved' over time. It may have started with the open TPU as the four pillars positioned between the two disks, then...
Quote from: plengo on December 23, 2007, 10:13:14 AM
...I turned it off because I have to sleep and wife and baby dont like the tic-tac-tic-tac-toc, tic-tac-tic-tac-toc of the realys...
This is a stretch: what if the four pillars positioned between the two disks of the open TPU design are small relays? :-\
'Just running it up the flagpole here, boss.' ;)
@Rosphere
On the OTPU, there are two horizontal coils at 180 degrees between rings, one vertical coil and one metal box that looks like an EMI filter. There is also only three legs, the other leg is the circuit board. I think the rings are used in the same manner as the LTPU by simlpy pulsing the two H coils to magnetize space between the rings North and South. When the pulse drops, the rings release static into the four collectors. Simple as he said, there is not much to this device. We also know he pushed a button to start it and one of the legs has a cover on it most likely to enclosed a few small batteries for start-up.
Here is a photo of a device I made just to test the magnet on the top and sending audio into the coil actually made my whole bench vibrate. For the collector lamp wire is useless. It is probably plastic coated Litz wire. More individual strands to catch energy. Will test this in 2008 with my Litz wire.
Hi Wattsup,
That is a very interesting test you have there. I am a bit unsure as to how you wired it, however.
Is this correct?
-Aluminum plates go to high voltage DC source to establish a potential between them, which the relay coil's magnetic field interacts with
-Relay coil goes to pulse generator of some sort
-Lamp wire (I would replace with Litz wire as you said ;)) is the power output (collector)
Thanks!
Eldarion
Hello all,
merry Christmas.
Otto
My very first post here, so please be gentle ;)
Reading and studying a number of solid state devices these past months, I tried to comprehend what was going on. To simplify things a little, I decided to only loosely watch setups with permanent magnets (MEG, HOPE and alike) and focus on non-permanent-magnet-types. The tpu as my main candidate.
What I am wondering is whether someone has already asked him/herself why SM noted his coils being in series or parallel? What happens if we combine the use of litze (many isolated strands) with http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/parabifc.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/parabifc.htm) (figure 2)? Changing the coil's induction by switching the litze strands from massive parallel to massive serial might yield interesting results.
Maybe it's time for me to start building, too! :)
EDIT:
Paraformer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraformer) hmmmm
Merry Xmas Otto and all,
Did Santa bring you a TPU? LOL :)
EM
P.S. Keep at it guys, we'll get it in 2008... or maybe 2009 Ha Ha :)
Take a look at US patent # 5383362
It deals with vibratory gyroscopes in the form of a ring. Nothing moves, just acoustic/vibration waves go round and round. It will give you some idea of what could be happening in the iron wire collector of the TPU.
1) Frequencies are input into the vertical control wires of the TPU, to cause a rotational magnetic field (RMF).
2) Due to magnetostriction, the RMF causes deformation of the wire and hence actual vibration waves accompany it.
3) These physical vibratory waves in the iron ring cut through magnetic fields and produce current by induction. In the right configuration you can get DC output.
EM
P.S. It's important to hit the vibratory resonant frequency of the ring not the electrical wavelength. A beat frequency oscillator (heterodyning) principle will come in handy to hit that low frequency.
@M@rcel
Congrats on your first post.
Regarding serializing Litz wire is very difficult to do if it is not bundled Litz wire.
See on t his link Type 3, 5 and 6..
http://www.neewc.com/litz.asp
This is a good page for Litz sizes and strands.
http://www.comax.uk.com/productinfo/litz_wire_selection.htm
@EM
Interesting patent. Thanks.
@All
Further to my last two posts, just to show what I mean by having a mag field in the center and Litz on the outer with an audio frequency, I have finally made a first video and have placed it on youtube at;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXgL4Wf8zrQ
Now if the Litz wire was bundled, I could use one or two bundles for the audio frequencies and the balance of the bundles would simply vibrate in a mag field producing energy. So the same wire would produce two results. At least this is the theory and I will be building a small scale unit as per Alt. 2a and test this soon.
Being a beginner, I was thinking the following:
What if:
- The collector coil is iron wire (few turns), made to oscillate using a capacitor (normal LC oscillator) at it's natural frequency frequency (resonance)
- The control coils (around the collector) pulse this oscillation to sustain it and lead out electromagnetic energy (as in Tseungs leadout theory).
- The pickups (litze around the collector).
- The oscillating waveform on the collector would be a sinus, the pickup (output) would be a sinus, too
- The control waveform would be pulsed DC, timing dependant on the signal level measured by the pickups (eg, pulse x microsecs after descend to 0V on pickup)
- Control coil pulse amplitude controlled to stabilize pickup voltage (for load correction)
It's probably very naive and too simple, but it just keeps spinning around in my head
Hello all,
@EM
Santa didnt know that Im working on my TPU in my garage so .....
@All
if you look a little closer to the 3 stack you can see that 2 control coils are connected together. The top and bottom controls. This means that this 2 controls are pulsed thogether and this means that the top and bottom collectors are rotated in the same direction. And the middle control and collector coil?? Pulsed in the contra way!!
In short: top and bottom controls and collectors in 1 direction, middle control and collector in the contra direction.
Of course, each control and collector in SERIES.......like "dfro" teached us. Not to forget the caps....
A time ago I thought I was clever and used the controls "tapped" into the collectors. It was great but to connect the controls in SERIES with the collectors is genious!!!
Otto
Hello all,
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 27, 2007, 03:07:29 AM
Hello all,
@EM
Santa didnt know that Im working on my TPU in my garage so .....
@All
if you look a little closer to the 3 stack you can see that 2 control coils are connected together. The top and bottom controls. This means that this 2 controls are pulsed thogether and this means that the top and bottom collectors are rotated in the same direction. And the middle control and collector coil?? Pulsed in the contra way!!
In short: top and bottom controls and collectors in 1 direction, middle control and collector in the contra direction.
Of course, each control and collector in SERIES.......like "dfro" teached us. Not to forget the caps....
A time ago I thought I was clever and used the controls "tapped" into the collectors. It was great but to connect the controls in SERIES with the collectors is genious!!!
Otto
Hi Otto & all,
first of all Happy new year to everyone, I'm new to this forum, although I've been reading for quite a while trough all material available (Mark's emails, Otto & Roberto's TPU/ECD replication, etc..). I spent quite some time (over a year) working on Bedini's machines so I'm pretty familiar with radiant spike generation, but I had always in my mind that sooner or later I wanted to give the TPU a try too.
Otto, I wanted to start from what I've learnt from all of Steven's "hints", but stillI would like to ask you a couple of questions regarding the ECD. Were you able to measure effective input versus output power? Why didn't everyone build one on these forums?! ;D
There is also something that appears strange to me when looking at the schematic. On one side of the control coils the primay and secondary are directly connected, this means all the mosfet drains are connected togheter trough the secondary's 0 connection?!
About the 3 stack you were talking about in your post, where can I see that?
For now I've made a 35cm diam collector with a double 6 mm2 braided wire (like a thick lamp wire) and 3 control coils wrapped around the whole collector's circumference and am about to wrap some wire around the whole thing to add some feedback from the collector. I 'm sure it will take more that one more collector but I want to start seeing what the effects were with one first ;)
best regards,
Mario
Quote from: EMdevices on December 24, 2007, 10:54:55 PM
Take a look at US patent # 5383362
It deals with vibratory gyroscopes in the form of a ring. [...]
3) These physical vibratory waves in the iron ring cut through magnetic fields and produce current by induction. In the right configuration you can get DC output. [/color]
EM
P.S. It's important to hit the vibratory resonant frequency of the ring not the electrical wavelength. A beat frequency oscillator (heterodyning) principle will come in handy to hit that low frequency.
Nah, it's pretty clear from what SM has said that he drives the TPU at multiples of the electrical resonant frequency of the big toroidal coil. He creates two electrical standing waves which add together to make a travelling/rotating wave, like a toroidal Tesla coil. This traveling wave is as big as the component standing waves, i.e., It can be 100s of times larger than the input (limited by the coil's Q), but ONLY if you drive the coil at its fundamental resonant frequency and the harmonics thereof.
So, what does this have to do with the "gyroscopic effects"? Well, because the travelling wave is so big, it carries with it a substantial magnetic field. (the field looks like the one created by two magnets on opposite sides of the ring, directing their fields tangentially, N toward N and S toward S). These magnetic fields store
most of the energy in the coil, and because they store energy, by E=mc^2, they have mass and inertia. The mass is not very much, but those fields are spinning around the coil so fast (say 0.05c) that their angular momentum could actually be measurable, and its gyroscopic effects might actually be felt.
Cheers,
Mr. Entropy
A "resonance stationary wave" (must be spherical or cylindrical) has it's own rotational moment and inertia - BAM!
Hello all,
our next step - step 2 is as follows:
Step 2
Get rid of the f...g power supply and the 3 MOSFET oscillators.
Nice experimenting.
Otto
PS
@EM
Santa NEVER forgets hard working people - me.
2008 - The year of the Loop.
Hello all,
I love my thread here, its sooooo nice quiet!!
I only wanted to say that if somebody was clever enough to build the 3 stack TPU, there MUST be an AUTOMATIC kill swith. When the current in the TPU reaches a dangerous level the switch should shut off the power supply AND the oscillators.
Yes, I know it was already mentioned but better to say it again. Is there any idea how to better protect the equipment and your, my live????
Otto
Quote from: otto on January 04, 2008, 04:15:28 AM
Hello all,
I love my thread here, its sooooo nice quiet!!
I only wanted to say that if somebody was clever enough to build the 3 stack TPU, there MUST be an AUTOMATIC kill swith. When the current in the TPU reaches a dangerous level the switch should shut off the power supply AND the oscillators.
Yes, I know it was already mentioned but better to say it again. Is there any idea how to better protect the equipment and your, my live????
Otto
Hi Otto,
I don't know if you saw my (introductory) post of yesterday, could you tell me what you mean by 3-stack or were I can get info on it?
thanks,
Mario
Hello all,
@Mario
sorry not to respond, I forgot.
The 3 stack picture is in the "some thoughts of how......" thread, page 1.
Otto
Keep up the good work Otto, forget all that SM said and just do your own thing. I'm glad Santa hasn't forgotten you!
If you get it to work, it will be you own invention, so what if you got inspiration from some videos and messages. He never disclosed to us the diagram or circuits or anything just talk which you can probably deduce from some of the videos, although it contradicts a lot in the videos.
I like the idea of doing it with no power input.
EM
Quote from: otto on January 04, 2008, 04:15:28 AM
Is there any idea how to better protect the equipment and your, my live????
Otto
Just a thought....
Place vertical coils at opposite sides. Drive them with the output of the TPU. When the output increases the fields in those coils increase. This should provide a braking effect like seen in old watt-hour meters (braking magnets). Place magnets over the ends of these coils to make them saturate sooner :)
Or maybe that is all backwards.
I'll let you know what I do but first I need to make it work.
@otto
Since z_p_e is no longer here, I will be lost for a while.
So.......... regarding your 3-stack protection, what if you use a zener diode at the required maximum voltage cut-off on the TPU output, then to a resistor then to a latching relay that will cut off the power supply. Any time you reach the maximum, the unit will shut -off.
Quote from: otto on January 04, 2008, 04:49:54 AM
Hello all,
@Mario
sorry not to respond, I forgot.
The 3 stack picture is in the "some thoughts of how......" thread, page 1.
Otto
Hi Otto and all,
I'm sure you guys and especially you Otto have already tried almost all the possibilities and have narrowed the options down a lot through hard work and experiments wich are the only way to find out if something works rather than theorizing. So, I'm sorry if you already went through this, but from what I gathered reading SM's posts and his statement that Carl was right about most everything, in my head I started figuring the TPU as following: 3 collector coils, at least 3 control coils on each collector pulsed sequentially, meaning that on each collector coil there is a sequentially pulsed rotating magnetic field. Basically 3 rotating magnetic fields one on top of the other, and the 3 fields are pulsed at 3 different frequencies. The whole thing is wrapped in a control winding were the TPU output is fed back for resonance feedback and control. Reminds me a bit the Searl effect...
The collectors could be wired in series from the slowest one to the fastest in order to have the multiplied cannon/projectile effect.
I know you are way ahead, this is just a thought from a humble newbie, at least in the TPU stuff. Maybe you did this already?
regards,
Mario
Hello all,
if allowed, the first time a little theory in simple words:
We have the 230V/50Hz or 110V/60Hz grid. The particles would move very slowly in a toroid, TPU but you can light a bulb BECAUSE the particles are moving slowly.
Now imagine a voltage of 12000V. AC, DC, it doesnt matter. In this 12kV the particles are veeeery fast. Try to light a bulb. No way because we have this 12kV in MILIAMPERES. The 12kV are only an example.
Now our TPU:
We are pulsing our TPU with waves (square or sine). Everybody has a biiiiig voltage. Look at the ECD TPU. But the problem is that the light was not sooo good. Maybe 60W. And I was sitting at this 60W for a long time because I didnt know what to do. Whats the problem??
With high accelerated particles you cant light a bulb.
What to do??
Decelerate the f....g particles. Slow them down!!!! Not stopping, SLOWING DOWN!!!
I wrote about this over 1 year ago but....
How?
TOP AND BOTTOM CONTROLS AND ALL COLLECTORS PULSED IN ONE DIRECTION AND NOW THE POINT, MIDDLE CONTROL COIL PULSED IN THE CONTRA DIRECTION.
In this way the particles are slowed down and you can light a bulb.
The result you can see with your 3 stack TPUs.
@EM
I want to thank you very much for your work on the micro TPU. I hope you didnt patent it ( just joking) because I want to use your little TPU to drive my 6" TPU. Of course I also want to thank the other guys working on your micro TPU.
The point of a self runner is that I saw a big mistake that I did: my self made power supply has an autotransformer. I dont have to say that Im feeding a lot of the TPU output power back to the grid!!! Im using only a part of the output to light my bulb. Everything else is feeded back and WASTED!!! S..t!!
Forgive me people!!
Guys, today its more then enough from me.
@Bep, wattsup, Mario, thanks for your help but.....
More tomorrow, on Sunday. When do I rest?? Hmmm...when I finish my work!!
Otto
hi
finaly somthing good
ASK FOR YOU
HOW TO MOVE NUKLEUSE OF MAGNET ZONES IN THE PERMANENT MAG NOT ELKTROMAGNET FORCE
SOMTHING ELSE IS ;) ;) ;)
P.S<<<<<<<MAGNET IS LIKE URANIUM STANDING ALONE WHIT DOING NOTHING >>>>\
HIT WHIT HAMER THE MAGNET ZONES TO MOVE
THE SAME PROBLEM HAS BEING ALSO WHIT THE URANIUM TO START THE ATOMS TO SEPARATED ITSELF
NOW HOW ????????? TO START MAGNET ZONE TO MOVE IN ATHER WAY
<<<FOR START URANIUM TO GIVE ENERGY IS HIT WHIT SOMTHING ELSE AND THAT ELSE IS LITLE ENRGY TO START BIG ENRGY>>>>
MAGNET PERM.. IS LIKE THAT BUT HOW TO START WHIT SMALL ENRGY TO MOVE THIS NUCLEUSE INSAID
WHIT ATHER WAY >
THEORY<<<< IN PRACTICAL
EXPLANE -------------- YOU HAVE GLASS SIMPLE AND PUT SOME AUDIO FREK AND BOOM THE GLASS THIS SMALL ENERGY IS BRILIANT + RESONANCE ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;) :o :o :o
Hello all,
its Sunday early in the morning and Im sitting in front of my PC.
I thought the people would hang me because of my little theory but not 1 word about it.
Do you think that the little dirty worker from the little country doesnt know what he describes??
Just to tell you a little secret: on Friday I made a little demonstration of the 3stack TPU. I was with a top scientist and his team.
It was veeery nice. Guess what they saw.
@MCD
I hope that I understand what you want to say but as I have a "photo memory" I would prefer a drawing.
Otto
Otto nice to see your work. I agree with you on the slow down ,I have found this on the tubeing (small copper tube ) that the positive flow is on the inside and the skin effect is on the out side so the speed is easly regulated. I would have prefered useing silver tube to test with. on the larger aluminum tube set up I have I put the capasitors inside the tubeing ends. good luck Mike
OK guys...how viable is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9wktSQdyaE
Hello all,
in the picture that I hope to present are shown the connections of the 3 stack TPU as I did it.
In the picture you cant see caps because I have NOT the equipment to measure the inductance.......I cant in this moment make resonant circuits.
Here you have it:
top collector - 9 turns - lamp wire
middle collector - 5 turns - lamp wire
bottom collector - 3 turns - lamp wire
All controls wound all over the circumference - 57 turns EACH - wire diameter 0,35mm
2 feedback coils wound over everything and all around the circumference - 256 turns - 0,5mm wire diameter
You dont see a connection from the power supply because its on you to see wrer the best connection point is!!
Dont ask me how and why. Its only a feeling because, as I said, I dont have the needed equipment to make the coils resonant.
More will follow.
Otto
Hello all,
bravo Otto, ha,ha ,I did it! I mean, I have always troubles with posting pictures.
Now the little secret:
You know that Im following "dfros" 2 posts.
He said something about a BATTERY and rising the voltage. I did it without the battery. I rised the voltage from my power supply.
Im always working with 24VDC (fact is that I have only 18VDC) from my PS and I rised the voltage to 30V. Carefully changed the frequencies, rised the voltage to 35V, tuned again the frequencies, rised the voltage to 40V and something started.....
Guys, this is NOT anymore TPU KINDERGARDEN.
Working in this way will blow you from your chairs and the s..t out of you!!!!!
Your equipment will be destroyed if you dont have a kill switch!!!!
You will for sure be killed if you touch the fucking wires!!!!
What exactly started is on you to show us all, I saw it.
If you work in this way and with the 3 stack it would be clever if you use 2 100W bulbs as load. I hope such a little load is enough, or not? Hmmm...
In my schematic you can see that Im feeding all the power back. THIS IS WRONG. Please dont teach me about coils and feedbacks because Im in this job for almost 2 years. I know of course that I have to feed back only a tini bit....
Teach me how to control this f...g beast.
GUYS I LOVE YOU ALL AND PLEASE, PLEASE IF SOMEBODY IS CRAZY ENOUGH TO DO WHAT I HAVE DONE BE CAREFUL!!! Yes, I know, you have expirience but this is something else.
Otto
Hello all,
in the next picture you can see a side few of my 3 stack TPU.
Please forgive me for my hand drawings but PCs are not for me. You know it already.
As Im really not good with the US measures our US friends have to "translate" my milimeters into inches. Sorry guys.
Otto
I think its enough from me today. Back on my workbench.
Hello all,
next try.
Otto
BRAVO OTTO,
go-on please but remember that we have to get rid of all the electronic stuff: no mosfets, oscillators....just an 'autostarting feature' ...a kick from a small battery and/or small magnet.
Roberto
Otto,
don't forget to put the feedback coils in your side view: are that coils builded as a transformer: one on top of all the the other coils?
Roberto
Hi Otto,
I am the second one to reply. It's an honor.
Thank you for the disclosure.
Be patient with everybody
and with the questions that will surely come.
Alles Gute.
Hello all,
@Roberto
I didnt want to more confuse the people thats the reason I didnt draw the feedbacks.
The feedbacks are wound all over the circumference and are the last coils wound in a TPU.
@Gustav22
I will be patient, I hope at least, ha,ha.
@All
I disconnected the bulb - load, the power supply and the oscillators from my TPU
I see kicks at frequencies of around 250 - 285 Hz. I hope this is the frequency because 1 "set" of kicks is traveling in 1 direction of my scope screen and the other set of kicks is travelling in the other direction. This kicks are growing from 0V to 10V!!! Connected only my coils like in the picture and my scope, of course.
I can only hope that my scope doesnt produce this kicks (how?).
This kicks are generated by......I dont know but they are amplified by my coils because when I strech this kicks I see that the coils are involved with the forming of the kicks.
Now 2 hours rest and again back to my workbench.
Otto
@Otto,
AMAZING!, in my last ECD I tried the same test, disconnecting PS, oscillators and load: what I saw, probing on collector has been a nice AM signal (local medium wave station) of about 5 - 10 millivolt. Please try to understand better where these kicks are coming from and report about their shape, duration, repetition rate and amplitude (do you have a near medium wave station?).
For myself I'm half completed the 2 additional feedback windings...so hope to join you soon.
Roberto
Hi Otto,
Quote from: ronotte on January 06, 2008, 06:53:08 AM
....Please try to understand better where these kicks are coming from and report about their shape, duration, repetition rate and amplitude ...
Maybe it would be interesting to scope each control coil individually on your completely disconnected 3-stack TPU, and to see if you can find "induced" voltages (or to say it better: "induced frequencies") and to see if these frequencies have different values and to find how these values are related to each other.
In order to find the "natural relationship" between the frequencies.
(Also ob man an den 3 CCs in "ausgeschaltetem zustand" unterschiedliche frequenzen messen kann und wie gro? die sind).
@ronotte
penso che e ora per pulire un po la mia macchina e prepararmi per far' la strada a Roma, uno di questi giorni
;-)
@Gustav22,
you are wellcome! ...you will find it INTERESTING.
Roberto
@otto
If the device is not powered, sometimes what I would do when I was testing my ECD v1 or other devices for interference was to connect the ECD to the scope. Then take a battery and a transformer and just hit the primary leads on the positive and negative of the battery to see if this will be caught by the ECD through the air and shown on the scope. This can give you some idea if it is catching something from the outside.
@Otto,
is this drawing correct ?
Earl
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL :D ;D 8)
thanks OTTO
and EARL
so we wind up with an upside down pyramid like this
wer
let us ask what channeling is
and let this be knowen Bond any doubt Tesla did this with 1 freq not 3 not 2 but 1 freq
do you know the truth
go look in my thread for the answers you can not see ..........
we will never be set free as long as there is a ghost that you cant see ............
isteam!!
hey what ever happend to the origional design?
i like this more
So Otto, do you actually have overunity from your 3stack coil?
No offense meant; just wanted to make sure I understand you correctly. ;)
I have several prototypes that I am currently working on, and if you already have overunity off of the 3stack coil then I would channel all my efforts into building that coil.
Thanks!
Eldarion
Here's a good article of 1895 on Tesla oscillators. Very interesting.
Quote from: innovation_station on January 06, 2008, 01:32:14 PM
we will never be set free as long as there is a ghost that you cant see ............
Hey! That's Gordon Lightfoot - "If you could read my mind". What's next? Nana Mouskouri?
I_S cruises the "easy listening" station - who would have thought?
..and, cut the coy crap! It is self-defeating.
-------------------------------------------------------
Great article - wattsup!
Hi all
Being a newbee in the free energy world, i will try to catch up with the work that has been done
on the TPU around here. I have read alot about different devices... some claimed overunity and
some where clearly hoaxes ... But still... that TPU thing keeps bouncing all over the place in
my head and still dont know why. Maybe I have something to learn about this device.. Or maybe I
will inspire people I dont know.... But my feeling tells me that the time has come tp pull out the
solution ! ;-)
When reading this thread, A question asked by Otto (Hi btw ;-) about what the kicks where all about...
well, it reminds me something i read about some device that produces hydrogene by pulsing
water through stainless steel and thus exciting water molecules to a point where they would
dissociate (search for Joe Cell) ... now it looks a lot like electrolysis... but some people claim to have it working
with very little input power... but there was an issue with bublles forming on the surface of the plates
that where dramatically reducing H2 output... now when pulsing the plates, as opposed to normal electrolysis,
the bubbles where pushed away from the plates thus alowing greater production...
Now the parallel: SM as mentionned the peak when first putting current on a wire... why? well maybe because
it is 'virgin', no electron packed all over the place, less RESISTANCE... like a highway, you can have a 4 lane
highway and run a race car on it, if no traffic, welll... but put many cars and your sports car does nothing
better than my Honda ;-) now imagine if we could pulse the traffic in some way that it creates 'holes' in
the traffic jam alowing faster elements to race through... hum.... and why not 'suck the slower ones
on the mean time... (thats more than a long shot lol) could friction be an issue in that device? A lot of
experiments where done i think on supraconductors and if i recall, resonance was a factor but dont take
my words on this one as my memory is directly influenced by the quantity of info i've been gathering in the
past months lol.
I would like to build a tpu but i just dont know where to start, i've been reading but the info i think is very hard to
follow. If there was a complete diagram, and detiled images and material list i could be building the beast sooner.
Also, what are the dangers a part from hight voltage and heat? is there any other issues that i should know about?
thanks all and i hope to find myself helping on that project
Happy new year
Eole72
Hello all,
@Earl and Marco have the right drawing. Again, the distances of the bottom control coil AND the bottom collector is importand and the distance of the middle control coil AND the middle collector.....
Look at the 3 stack picture. See my mm values in the drawing. The cork is the thinnest on the bottom coils, thicker on the middle coils....
Now I wnat to describe you the "effect" that I saw:
Power supply at 35V!!
First I tuned the top and bottom controls - collectors. I didnt had a scope so I cant say anything about the frequencies. At some frequencies I had a lot over 5A from the power supply. But when the frequencies are tuned, then less then 2A. Then I tuned the 3. frequency. When I found the right frequency mix my workbench started to vibrate because my transformer in the power supply started to play his game with the TPU. The voltage rised to 40V, was there a few seconds and then started to spin up. If this power supply wouldnt have the automatic current swith I would have an disaster. Of course I almost blowed my 100W bulb.
The point is that my TPU started to work as an TPU, The field spinns up and if we dont have something to limit this spin up it would blow everything.
Its like a car engine: you spin up the motor and if you dont break the starting "sequence" you will destroy the battery......
A long time ago (30 years) I saw how a jet is started: a really big generator was connected to the jet and started. The engine spinned up and at a cartain rpm the generator was automatically disconnected.
The same we have to do with our TPUs because if we dont disconnect the power supply when we have the needed rpms, to say so, we have a runaway.
About my self generated kicks.
I connected my scope on every point in the TPU but saw the signals only on the collectors. On the controls a big nothing.
In my friends lab where I made my demonstration, the guys made a quick Mobius with speaker wires and connected first the ends of this wire in a "normal" way. They measured the capacitance. A few picofarads. Then they connected the speaker wire in a Mobius way: capacitance 1600pF!!!!
In this second I learned about the Mobius more then ever. 1600pF!!! Now take the datasheet of the IRFP450 MOSFET.
Otto
@Eole72
Just short:
you mentioned resonance: My coils are NOT in resonance because I dont have the equipment to get the values. I jumped out with the schematic because I managed to spin up the "engine" and with properly made coils it would work muuuuch better. I know a few guys here have the equipment and they will do the work.
The point now is to get rid of the power supplies because I really dont have the nerves to hear and feel the vibration of my power supply AND to hope that the current limiter can do his job. If not, everything is blown.
Otto
PS: is copper oxide a superconductor???
@Otto,
Bravo and congratulations. I am sure you are very happy. I did not have internet for a few days and now have a lot to do.
I will start replicating straight away.
What is the diameter of the coil? What material is the core?
Talking of danger, my mother always told me to keep away from the electric sockets. When I was 4 years old one day
I bent one of her hair pins and stuck it in to the holes of the socket. SInce then, I have had several more shocks but
I live!
AM
Hello AM,
as Im following our master the dimensions are well known: outer diameter of the TPU is 6", inner diameter 4", height 1 3/4". I hope I didnt wright the last measure wrong.
The core is made of cork. At some frequencies you can easily hear the particles "playing" with the cork.
Im not so worried about you because I know your a clever guy. Im worried about the newbies. Here are a lot of them.
I suppose you have a scope. When you finish your TPU, connect the wires and connect only the scope to the collectors of the TPU.
I suppose you will see kicks as I see them. But the point is you will see the kicks travelling in both directions. They are travelling like the TPU is connected.
I measured again the frequency of this kicks, 250Hz. Its an harmonic of the Schumann frequency.
And I saw something else: when I magnify the base line of the scope I see pure little sine waves and the kicks travelling. When I totally strech the kicks I see that they are the result of the Mobius. I mean they are magnified by the Mobius. Nice sharp kicks. Never in this 2 years I saw better kicks. There is also a difference in signals on day and night. It can easily be seen.
Of course, when I connect ONLY a minus to the TPU the signals - kicks are muuuch bigger. Not a ground connection but only the minus from the power supply. The power supply is OFF.
When I use a magnet, just sitting on the coils - better kicks. But they are not stable. They are getting bigger and bigger and then nothing. Again building up more and more and suddenly - nothing. Its like a very slowly pumping.
Otto
Hello all,
if youre interested in Schumann frequencies here you have it:
http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/roffe.htm
Otto
Hi all
@Otto
Nop, dont think copper oxide is a superconductor... but resonance could reduce material resistance that's the main point...
I will look around and choose one type of TPU and implement it ... mabe a very basic one so i can really
appreciate all variables in that system.
Hopefully will be up and running within 1 month max, so if any of you can help me on that so i can
be experimenting with something more tangible than my brain lol
Eole72
otto, great work man, I'm proud of you. If I understand you correctly you are seeing pulses (kicks) from your coil setup WITHOUT any frequency or power input? Is that true? Just simply the wires connected.
if that's the case then that's very encouraging that the TPUs are some sort of an antenna that picks up (or even generates) these waves.
250 Hz is also the 5th harmonic of 50 Hz powersystems in Europe. Maybe your device picks that up? That's interesting none the less.
EM
QuoteI suppose you will see kicks as I see them. But the point is you will see the kicks travelling in both directions. They are travelling like the TPU is connected.
I measured again the frequency of this kicks, 250Hz. Its an harmonic of the Schumann frequency.
And I saw something else: when I magnify the base line of the scope I see pure little sine waves and the kicks travelling. When I totally strech the kicks I see that they are the result of the Mobius. I mean they are magnified by the Mobius. Nice sharp kicks. Never in this 2 years I saw better kicks. There is also a difference in signals on day and night. It can easily be seen.
@wattsup
You are the man ... for that article thanks a bunch.. barley find cohesive articles that old that are truth. What the hell happened to society.
Joe
@ Otto
Congrats
@ EmDevices...
Well he came clean we get anymore Christmas show an tell? :o
Quote from: eldarion on January 06, 2008, 03:34:35 PM
So Otto, do you actually have overunity from your 3stack coil?
No offense meant; just wanted to make sure I understand you correctly. ;)
I have several prototypes that I am currently working on, and if you already have overunity off of the 3stack coil then I would channel all my efforts into building that coil.
Thanks!
Eldarion
have you tried turning the unit upside down otto?
Hi Otto,
Seeing as you have gone public with this I fugured I would post the full set of topologies -- http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2764.new.html#new
cheers :)
mark
@ Otto
Things seem to be going good I have some questions
1. are you using tubs
2. I have an old drawing and I have sapplied it
if this is too old please give me an updated one and
I will start building it
I have made a Bedini time product but as I said my version works with out a wheel it charges batteries just using a
coil and his circuit so I know if I could make this work I could with Guidance make yours work
Nick
Hello all,
the main point I jumped out with my drawing is that I had a lot of troubles with my PC on my workplace, at home, with my phone line at home.....yesterday viruses on my PC here on my workplace....so I decided to jump out with my drawing. Maybe the connections are NOT the best solution, the coils are not tuned....but when somebody tries to f...k me then Im not afraid but ANGRY.
So please, dont think its the best solution I showed you. Fact is that this TPU works and Im glad because WE have it and I hope we deserve it. So many good posts and peoples here, almost 2 years thinking and dreaming about the TPU.
Yes, we have a lot of work to do: resonate the coils, get rid of the power supply and oscillators but I hope this is not so a big problem. Here are a lot of really good electronics guys.
@EM
yes, I disconnected everything from my TPU. Using only the minus (maybe I need the ground, dont know) from the power supply when its OFF I see much bigger kicks. Yesterday I amplified the kicks to 30V with an 2N708 transistor ( thanks Roberto).
On my scope I see sets of 8 kicks without the bulb. With the 100W bulb I see 7 kicks but only on the positive or negative kicks when I change the scope probe. Of course then the kicks are only a few volts.
I think that this kicks have nothing to do with the grid because they are changing when its night.
For sure I know that this kicks are inside the Mobius and not the control coils.
I still think that we have to use your little micro TPU. Its just my feeling that never fails.
@Eldarion....dean
no overunity in this moment. What is overunity? For "oridinary" people more output then input but for "us" overunity doesnt exist. "For us" I mean a lot of bright theorists here on the forum overunity doesnt exist because it was already said that we live in a sea of energy and we only have to learn how to use it.......
No, sorry, I dont want a discussion about this. Read Bearden, Tesla........much brighter guys then a little man from a little country,ha,ha.
@HopeForHumanity
I suppose that in the last wound coils - feedbacks - are a few kilovolts so I was not crazy enough to even touch my TPU when it works. One day I will do it but for now I want to be alive.
@Mark
I see it in the same way. Very nice done and explained. Thanks.
@Nick
1. our master said to use tubes. I know how they work, how to build oscillators with tubes, bought tubes and an transformer, builded a lot of oscillators and NOT ONE worked!!!
As I suppose that Im not able to work with tubes I made my "job" with MOSFETs. Its not really a "job". Its my hobby. Working on my TPU Im relaxing, I have fun!!! Real fun because my I can freely do what I want and nobody disturbes me and my sometimes crazy ideas....
2. You have a drawing of what? I suppose of the ECD TPU. If so, you have here the newest pictures of a working TPU.
Otto
Quote from: otto on January 06, 2008, 03:13:58 AM
...3 stack TPU as I did it...
All controls wound all over the circumference - 57 turns EACH - wire diameter 0,35mm ...
Hi Otto,
two questions:
1.)
why did you use 57 turns for the collectors?
Is this number (57) a result of some tests you did? Or did you count the turns in the 3-stack picture?
2.)
do all 3 connectors of all the collector coils (i.e. the ends of the collectors) exit the torus at the same location or have you twisted each collector by 120?, so that the ends of the 3 collectors come out of the finished torus like a 3-pointed star?
(If the question is not understandable, please let me know, then I will try to clarify)
edit:
@nickc44
I think Otto recommends that you build a unit as he specified here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg68404.html#msg68404
and as MarkSnoswell has rendered here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2764.msg68830.html#msg68830
Quote from: otto on January 08, 2008, 02:29:21 AM
I had a lot of troubles with my PC on my workplace, at home, with my phone line at home.....yesterday viruses on my PC here on my workplace....
@Otto
Did you see this thread from yesterday:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3891.msg68750/topicseen.html
Hello all,
@Gustav22
as always good questions from you.
1. First I made a TPU like in the picture but the controls with over 150 turns AND with 57 turns. I thought it would be better to have such a TPU because I could use the 150 turns OR the 57 turns. Yes I counted this turns in the 3 stack and thought to make a joke a try it with 57 turns. As I now see, it is NOT a joke. This really works. Remember my 50 turns tests??
Now look into the other drawing and say how many turns you see on each of the 4 segments.
Yes, I tried to have my controls in 3 or 4 sections but didnt saw any better light but now something changed:
Im using 30, maybe 40V from the power supply.
The point is: when you rise the voltage from your power supply everything changes. The "best" frequency mix with 12V from your power supply is NOT the best frequency mix with 24V from the PS not to mention at 30V or 40V. You have always to search for a new frequency mix.
This also means that with the voltage rised from your power supply everything changes. With my controls all around I have success but this doesnt mean that the 3 stack with controls in 4 sections doesnt work better.
Its "only" a lot of work to see whats the best solution. Dont worry, we will do this, at least I will do it.
2. a loooong time ago I tried to have the collectors at 120? to each other, pulsed the coils but didnt see anything better so in all my TPUs are the collector "inputs" and "outputs" , to say so, 1 top of the other. Better, the connection points in all the collectors are 1 top of the other.
I think the 6" TPU is not sooo a problem, so we dont have to use "tricks" to get more output.
Come on, only 2 100W bulbs!
Otto
Otto,
Thank you for always posting your discoveries here. This latest one is interesting:
Quote from: otto on January 08, 2008, 04:56:48 AM
The point is: when you rise the voltage from your power supply everything changes. The "best" frequency mix with 12V from your power supply is NOT the best frequency mix with 24V from the PS not to mention at 30V or 40V. You have always to search for a new frequency mix.
When you increase your input voltage, is the new frequency higher or lower compared to the previous input voltage?
Does less/more voltage use lower/higher frequencies; how do voltage and frequency seem to relate to one another?
@Rosphere
In this moment I cant say it because I didnt had the needed time. The point is that the power supply is inside my workbench on my workplace. I have to "steal" it and bring it home. There I have a lot of time to see what and how. I also dont know how the signals looks like because I brought the TPU, oscillators, MOSFETs with the wires connected to the oscillators...the scope was at home because it was raining....
Im posting because I want that WE ALL here have a TPU. Its not only for me its for US!!
Otto
HELLO OTTO AND FREINDS
I know the dumb question is the one not asked
but what size is the tpu 6" 8" 10" 12" ?????
wer
Wer
It is an out dated method of measurement.
" means inch which is around 25.4 mm.
@Otto
Could you clarify that you saw the kicks from the TPU when power supply turn off. Does the power plug still in the socket or just the switch inside the power supply off. I ask because many power supply designed to have filter capacitors connected from power line to the power supply case. In case it was turned off, still one power line connected to the circuit. The switch does not usually cuts 2 power lines. In that case you may measured something when power off. I suggest you take out the power plug from the socket. and check it again.
If the power plug has been taken out. Still measure some volts of kicks. Please check it is at high impedance or low impedance. If it is low impedance, even only 1 volt, then you should declare OU successful.
Please clarify, thank you.
sorry double post
Hello All
@AhuraMazd
I will clear up my dumb question.
What size is OTTO's new tpu 6 inch across , 8 inch across , 17 inch across ? ? ? ?
Makes a diffrence when ording wire, and how many turns.
wer
@ Otto
I did see the thread with your 3 rings but I didn't see the thread with the circuit attached to F1 F2 F3
So I did not now if you were using tubes to give you those inputs Thanks for clearing that up
Part 2 of this question is I do not have the circuit before the rings so @ all if any one has this could you please
post it Thanks
Also you say on each ring you rap with 57 turns and then and this is the question... you stack each and then add
I think you said 250 turns around all ??
this may help or at least it did in the case of the bedini coil when I had 250 turns with 2 cables wound together
(one was used to trigger the transistor the other to send power to the coil and push the magnet on the wheel to the next position) with a core of welding rods I needed a wheel with magnets passing the coil to turn the circut on
My point: when I increased the turns on the coil to 1000 and used 4 cables of the same length one as a trigger and 3 tied together ( to power the coil ) I could trigger this coil once with a magnet and it would run on its own from that point on.
It was generating enough electricity to trigger the circut
( By the way when this happend for the first time I thought it was going to F(*&(& King explode )
this was using .20 wire
I was using 36v
As I have said before by adding more turns it seemed to resinate I think like you would like
Again this is just an observation in a like kind product that may help
I thanks the other gentlemen for pointing me to the other threads
Nick
@weri812
Quote from: weri812 on January 08, 2008, 03:25:18 PM
...
What size is OTTO's new tpu 6 inch across , 8 inch across , 17 inch across ? ? ? ?
Makes a diffrence when ording wire, and how many turns.
wer
..
Quote from: otto on January 07, 2008, 05:57:57 AM
Hello AM,
as Im following our master the dimensions are well known: outer diameter of the TPU is 6", inner diameter 4", height 1 3/4". I hope I didnt wright the last measure wrong.
The core is made of cork. .......
Thanks
Gustav22
wer
Hello all,
@tosky
yes youre right. My power supply was connected to the wall but OFF. This morning I totally disconnected the power supply from the wall.
Earlier I had "sets" of kicks and now I have still the kicks but the frequency changed: every 7ms is a kick. Of course they are not sooo big anymore but I measured over 10V WITHOUT the load.
In short: with the plug out of the wall, still kicks at 7ms frequency. The best kicks ever seen!!
@weri
sorry, youre posting when Im sleeping. Gustav22 was faster, ha,ha.
@Nick
Im using MOSFETs.
"Before" the TPU are the oscillators. 3 of them. Please look in the earlier posts. There are shown a lot of them. I think in the ECD pdf are also posted the oscillators.
Yes, 57 turns for each control, then stack and then over everything 2 feedback coils with over 250 turns.
I never said its the best turns number but thats for now what I did and it WORKS!
Otto
Otto,
Are the turns of the 57 turn coil tightly wound next to each other or are they spread with gaps in between?
AM
AM,
a veeery good question.
There are gaps between the turns. I think they are big. Every 5 - 8 mm or so, is a turn.
Yes, now the people will say that I should have more turns. OK how many??? Dont say a lot because with a lot of turns I had never success. This was the reason for my ECD TPU.
Today I will have my really good power supply at home so I finally can work and try, as always, a lot of ideas.
Finally I dont have to take care about runaways!! I can then connect, no, better not, a scope probe. I blowed at least 4 scope probes last year. The scope probe will be NEAR bulb, the MOSFETs inside...
Do you know why the MOSFETs must be inside?
1 of the reasons is that I saw I need less current from my power supply.
Otto
Hi all,
Guys, I do wonder 'what are you waiting for ?' For the first time after a long troubled incubation, our dearest Otto kindly released his much waited interpretation of dfro's 3StackTPU:
IT'S A MAIN EVENT!!!!!
I'm amazed do not see anything from you about the new device. Not any considerations, not any suggestion, not any words about the amazing solutions found by Otto to suite the dfro...suggestions (I took one week of rumblings about how-to.....and did not even consider the 100% feedback architecture...), not any kind of help! It is like nobody is interested!
IS THAT YOU DO LIKE ONLY 'ARMCHAIR DISCUSSIONS?'
It seems like you all are 'at the window' only watching what's happening and perplexed about the route to follow either as an 'armchair thinker' or just starting a brand new project with enthusiasm or again only tired & bothered.
Perhaps many of you are thinking: He He that's another Otto & ronotte Pindaric flight!.........of course I'm only jocking as this morning I do feel pretty happy as yesterday almost at midnight I took some pics very, very interesting and self explanatories.
I'll post for everyone to see this absolutely preliminary pic (just to keep the ground ...hot) considering the testing conditions of my 3StackTPU V10-7:
+DCV= 18V
F1 = 35000.00Hz
F3=245000.00KHz
Pulse duration=2microseconds
Lamp load directly connected: reddish and pulsing in brightness at
Hertz rate
SCOPE SCREEN IS REALLY FILLED WITH ...SINUSOIDAL WAVEFORMS
For the moment I'll not comment it but WAIT FOR your much appreciated observations!
Roberto
Hello all,
@Roberto
it seems that NOBODY trusts me. Its really not a problem for me.
I know what I have. If the people dont have 2 or 3 hours to build a 3 stack TPU and test it....
Roberto, lets make the "job".
I know your an electronics guy. Lets think about how to control the beast. We need a circuit that shutts OFF the TPU at a reached current level.
I dont know but didnt the people hear a klicking noise in the video of the 6" TPU??? Would be logic!!
Otto
PS: did I say that you have the same signals as I have them??
@Otto
Right now my arm-chair is cold.
I can tell you I've found the distance between turns is best at 2.5x the diameter of the conductor - center to center. This is only true when attempting 90 degree induction. The same is true for the distance between the primary and secondary conductor (even though they are are 90 degrees).
The length of the wire for the conductor is not as important as the final circumference.
On the bottom of the bottom collector - there are three sets of control wires - one after the other. I think the order of those wires must be considered. Squeeze and hold then squeeze the second after the first and release the first the squeeze the third and release the second etc. etc.
The final winding should be over the others and not interleaved.
These are my thoughts as I take a break from winding. My first will be as you desribe so I can see what you are seeing.
Did you update your drawing to show the handedness and starting points for the coils? Sorry, I haven't been watching the threads much lately.
Thanks,
BEP
P.S.
On controls - I'm thinking FETS between the feedback and driving coils. Biased ON by default. Gates controlled by thermistors andovervoltage. This will cause less feedback at a point of rising voltage (open load circuit, coil destruction) and zero feedback at a high temperature.
@Otto - it isn't trust for me - it is trying to catch up!
@Otto,
DITTO
100% agreed!!!! Having similar waveforms is just the reason why this morning I'm feeling so HAPPY :D. Let's hope that many will join us with the fun.
I'll do my best for controlling the beast. You know that is just for this reason I'm still keeping myself using low voltages.
My Hope is anyway to:
GET RID OF ALL ELECTRONICS STUFF & PS and USING ONLY THE KICK AUTO-GENERATED
Note: Speaking about self-kicks I'm still not sure about what you are seeing as in my case I don't found a repetition rate and so very difficult to spot them on screen, but I'll check it again.
Roberto
@ronotte
Re: your scope shot
I had the same but only above 35V from the PS and zero line was not as low on the waveform. This is why I bought some cork yesterday!
Hello,
@BEP,
Im glad that at least 1 of the people here is with us to have a 3 stack TPU.
Today I will have the PS from my workplace at home so I can really enjoy in my TPU work without runaways. Finally. And without feeding the 230V lines.
@Roberto,
without anything connected to the TPU are very sharp kicks at a frequency of 7ms....Hz???
Enough for today, tomorrow is also a day, I hope.
its better for us to concentrate on controlling the beast. Klick sound heared in the video of the 6" TPU??
Otto
@BEP,
HURRY-UP
I don't know about your PS test voltage, so may be that you used a lower voltage in the range of 6 - 12V. In this case what you are getting is normal.
TAKE ATTENTION: AS SOON AS YOU RISE THE VOLTAGE OVER THE 16V THINGHS WILL CHANGE COMPLETELY - YOU WILL SEE IT AND GET AMAZED!So handle it with care as you may pay hard: are you using as myself a 100% floating & optical isolated Mosfet final stage? If ypou are interested I can post my detailed & mature design for it.
Roberto
@ all
Guys I need to catch up as well, Only asking the questons to help catch up
@ Otto
I think every one trusts you and are just trying to understand in detail how
you set it up, at least that is what I'm tring to do
So Otto you think I can use the curcut I posted ( not the Coils ) but use your coils
Nick
Yes, my mosfets are opto-isolated and I have them located on inside diameter of the coils. My generator is breadboard and I'm having more throuble with that so I'm considering etching the circuit.
No great changes in output until I drive above 35V. My AC component swings more negative than Roberto's scope shots.
With no power applied I see repeating and noisy spikes but at very low amplitude. I have not been able to identify an outside source but my radio hears them. They are the same level near or far from the coils (175kHz CW). I don't think they are from the coils. These are not rising and falling like you describe.
My coils are not the same as yours so I want to repeat your results first with new coils. Not much time for homework this week :'(
@ronotte
Quote+DCV= 18V
F1 = 35000.00Hz
F3=245000.00KHz
Look at the frequencies you wrote, do you see an error?
I think you meant to say 35 KHz and 245 kHz (not 245 MHz)
Also, otto and you are mentioning this effect where the power supply seems to "float" higher in voltage.
I just realized that SM was saying the source also becomes the output and runs with gain, maybe your experiencing this phenomenon. But then why doesn't the power supply stop supplying current? I mean it's a regulated power supply so if it goes above the voltage it's set at it should not put out any current, or does it?
Good work guys, keep up the enthusiasm, and if it doesn't work let us "down" slowly so we don't go into a depression LOL :D :D
EM
Quote from: ronotte on January 09, 2008, 07:03:34 AM
...Guys, I do wonder 'what are you waiting for ?' For the first time after a long troubled incubation, our dearest Otto kindly released his much waited interpretation of dfro's 3StackTPU:
Who is 'dfro' and what makes his/her clues any more special than any other anonymous poster?
Quote...It is like nobody is interested!
IS THAT YOU DO LIKE ONLY 'ARMCHAIR DISCUSSIONS?'
It seems like you all are 'at the window' only watching what's happening and perplexed about the route to follow either as an 'armchair thinker' or just starting a brand new project with enthusiasm or again only tired & bothered.
Perhaps many of you are thinking: He He that's another Otto & ronotte Pindaric flight!.........of course I'm only jocking as this morning I do feel pretty happy...
I am glad that you were only joking. I was starting to go into defensive mode, planning to whine about limited free waking hours and no research capitol. And I certainly have no idea what all these beautiful women see in a poor geek like me. Now, I am joking.
Quote from: otto on January 09, 2008, 07:53:20 AM
...it seems that NOBODY trusts me. Its really not a problem for me.
I know what I have. If the people dont have 2 or 3 hours to build a 3 stack TPU and test it....
The Rodin coil was the first thing that I ever tested with a "wall plug" power supply; (speaker outputs from a portable stereo.) I always used 9V's for all of my TPU testing; perhaps this is why all of them failed.
On the other side of the coin, I have known of people and seen people test TPUs with municipal A/C power supplies. Wow, look at that bulb light up. Wow, feel that power supply heat up. I hear many tales of great flashes as well. Those failures can leave a bitter aftertaste, I suppose.
Eventually, we will need to pull our TPUs away from the wall outlets. This is why I decided to start there with the small battery in the first place. Hopefully, you will ween your TPU off the wall soon and it will work as intended.
If I spend any more money on TPU projects then I need to understand exactly what it is that I am doing, I can ill afford to play around like I was, educational as it was.
I have decided that the best thing for me to do right now is to keep abreast of what great folks are up to, like you Otto and all of the other 'TPU Elite' on OU, and get some Tesla patent reading in. Speaking of 568,177, does anyone know what the voltage/current of the "direct currents" of "the ordinary municipal incandescent-lighting circuits" were, way back in 1896?
It was probably more than 9V. :( :D
Thank you for keeping us all posted on your great works. 8)
Great scientist may not be good electronic engineer. They may confused by circuits. What I am talking is the Voltage appear at the output that is higher than the preset value of the power supply. All electronic engineers know there is a feed back control circuit in all power supply and they are designed to increase or decrease the output when the load or power line changes as to keep the voltage constant. But they are limited to be used at a certain bandwidth. If the output has a RF component or fast switching pulses. These feed back control circuit could not follow the changes and wrongly to adjust the output to be more or less voltage. When it increase the voltage the energy drawn from the power line must be more than the preset energy. It could be wrongly think the load generates energy to the power supply but actually the energy drawn from the power line due to the lost control feedback circuit. So how to avoid this problem. I suggest off the power plug and use one or two precharged battery to get 12V or 24V to do these experiments. Or use a professional power supply that must be implemented with serious output filter and designed for RF transmitter usage. It is very difficult to find these power supplies, They are usually selled as a special made part in the RF system. I think the best and simple is to use batteries.
That will let use more concentrate to research the O.U. devices.
Hello all,
@Rosphere
of course I really dont know who "dfro" is, thats clear but it was the 1. post that showed me whats going on in a TPU.
1. I was all the time using 1 turn collectors. I thought that in a 1 turn collector I would have less mess with the harmonics. Now Im using multiturn collectors and I have the same mess. Not less or more. The same.
2. He said to connect the controls in series with the collectors. I did it. I always thought that I have to "tap into" the collectors like in the ECD TPU. Yes, it was working fine. Big kicks. Following dfro I saw that the kicks are BIGGER when I connect like mentioned before.
3. He said to rise the voltage of the BATTERY. As I dont have a battery I rised the voltage from the power supply. Its working great.
4. He mentioned BATTERY. My home made power supply has a autotransformer. I saw that Im feeding back a lot of "energy".
Now Im using a really good professional power supply. Again, the same happens AND the transformer vibrates.
What to do??
Follow dfro and use a battery!!
Have I to continue???
@tosky,
yes, a battery.
Otto
Quote from: ronotte on January 09, 2008, 07:03:34 AM
.....my 3StackTPU V10-7
Hi Roberto,
this version number sounds as if you already have tested several 3stack configurations.
In your best one so far, are you
still using wire diam. 0.35 mm and 57 windings for all three CCs
or are you using different wire diameters for your CCs?
I am asking because I want to calculate (and wind) 3 CCs with a harmonic relationship (fa, do, so), i.e. I inted to use a different wire diam for each of the CCs,
but I need a good base from which I can start, i.e. the best tested wire diameter and number of turns, "we" have found up 'till now.
I can use Otto's 0.35 diam and 57 windings as a base, but maybe you found something better already?
@EM,
OK it has been a Typo error: of course I would have written 245000.00Hz and not KHz - Sorry and thanks for the correction.
That notation 35000.00 Hz does significate 35000Hertz comma 00 so simply I'm saying that the freq must be correct till is % figure. I did it in that way in order do not confuse the meaning of commas and dots as In America and in Europe they may be used differently (often we interchange commas with dots). If you look at my writings you will see that I'. using always the DOT notation for the decimal indication.
Roberto
@ Otto
4- dfro mentioned BATTERY"
Re: The Master Of Magnetics "Steven Mark"
From Roland Schinzinger to Steven Mark:
"Dear S,.....To further our discussion, the reason you can not use small transformers within or at close proximity to your unit is because of the leakage fields of magnetic flux. They induce currents into nearby circuitry and most likely cause frequency changes in the operating point of the control unit. Remember when you inject even a small frequency component into sensitive frequency dependant equipment you can have a disaster. That is exactly what I believe is occurring when you try to use a transformer close to your units. There will be all kinds of harmonics present within this field extending past the radio frequency range."
Marzio
@Otto
I suggest you only use one or two Rechargeable Lead-Acid battery which cost about USD20 per unit. cheaper than any home made power supply. If your O.U. device really generates energy. Which would be charged back to the battery, leads to a very long time or ever running. I mean never have to charge the battery again. But if you O.U. is only consume energy to RF or random Pulses. It will not have a chance to get false result, because there is no feedback control circuit in the battery. Sure no chance to get wrong result. Even if you got high Volt by back e.m.f. that needs to draw current from the battery. All things happen must consume energy only from the battery. By doing this, it becomes logical either Over unity or Under unity. If you never need to charge the battery, then you got O.U. The power supply only used for charging up the battery.
Hi Gustav22,
it's nice hearing from you. About your dilemma I fear I cannot be of help, this because me and Otto started this project almost independently soon after the dfro post, so each one of us did it using a slightly different criteria. In my case I used ALL 1 mm standard PVC isolated electrical wire for the 57 turns input coils.....the reason? I already had it and I'd no time to buy other wires.
So if you want to experiment with CHORDS (I prefere major 4,5,6) just try using different wires i.e. thin wire for the top ring (were it goes the F3) and ticker wire for the bottom ring were it goes the F1. Anyway I don't think you will find macroscopic different behaviour. In my opinion thick Litz wire (at least with 256 isolated strands...) still remain the best solution according to my past experience.
Have fun and plan a visit to my Lab: I'm waiting for both you & wife.
All the best
Roberto
my hero
http://dailymotion.alice.it/video/x3wrzo_fabrication-dune-lampe-triode_tech
@wings
yes, it looks like the TPU dont "want" to be "nice" with transformers. Yesterday I worked with my professional power supply connected to the TPU. A really big vibration.
@tosky
please without the O.U. I would never claim O.U.!!!
I only said that my TPU feeds the grid and lights a bulb because I saw it.
I already posted that I want to use something like EM (again, thanks EM) did in the micro TPU thread. A little "TPU" drives the 6" TPU. How to make it I really dont know in this moment. For sure I know that the battery I want to use must be rechargeable and for sure I know that this battery is only used in the starting sequence of the TPU and then disconnected. Like in our cars.
Its only my "logic". Maybe Im wrong but we will see.
I still have my flash unit from a camera!!!
Otto
Hello all,
maybe you guys know ths already but I want to post it.
When we connect the TPU to our MOSFETs something "strange" can happen: at a little input current from your power supply, less then 2A it sometimes happens that your MOSFETs or at least 1 of them is OVERHEATING!!!
I have this "problem". No, for me its not a problem because I know why it happens: a coil or coils are connected WRONG!!!!
Yesterday I was again reading dfros post: vertical coils (feedback) connected in series!!.....
I have his statements on a paper when Im working with my TPU but I connected the input coils in series....veeeery "clever"!!!
what to say? S..t happens!
His vertical coils are, I hope, the feedback coils.
His input coils are the control coils, I hope.
When I posted my drawing I said that its not the best solution....
This weekend I have enough time to connect all my coils in a better way.
Otto
@all,
what you see is my consolidated TPU V10-7 builded according to dfro suggestions and Otto's posted schematic.
During the first preliminary test just to verify again all the connections and control about the correct wire polarities I verified that the TPU itself do remain always at ambient temperature for all input conditions. On the contrary even if using 2 microsec pulses the Mosfets do get hot when using more than 12V and specially the 245KHz......so attention is still necessary in order to avoid the mosfet's thermal run-away. Best practice is to always use the current limiting PS feature in order to preset at a suitable level the max allowable current. In that way you can safely test with 20 or more Volt and still run with current limiting set to for example 2-3A...so saving your mosfets.
On the pic the TB connections are:
- on the 6 prong TB you find the 3 freq connections
- on the side left 1prong TB you finf the Ground connection
- on the 2 prong left TB you find the load connection
On the TPU main body, starting from left you find:
- two vertical TBs where the on the left TB are the mobius 6 (3 x 2) return wires, and right TB are the 6 mobius start wires
- 1 vertical TB with the start-end wires for each 'Input coils'
Robertoi
Hello all,
I cant be quiet!!
Im reading dfros post.
He mentioned Tesla, Bedini?, Bearden and "dipole".
Tom Bearden is using the word "dipole".
dfro said that the electrons pile up and THEN are switched into the circuit WITHOUT destroying the dipole. No current, when the pulse hits the coil!!
OK, I have readed in the past every single word from T. Bearden that I could find on the web.
Just goodle jlnlabs and look at the "final secret" from Bearden and there is an "Additional information"...with 2 schematics.
Any comments??
As always, Im OFF line during the weekend because I have a nice toy: my TPU.
Otto
Quote from: otto on January 11, 2008, 06:14:09 AM
...OK, I have readed in the past every single word from T. Bearden that I could find on the web.
Just goodle jlnlabs and look at the "final secret" from Bearden and there is an "Additional information"...with 2 schematics.
Any comments??
Ah, yes, Tom Bearden; the seething vacuum via quantum physics. His work fits in nicely with the plasma universe concept.
I have seen his schematics before; with the double-pole, double-throw switch to tap the E before the B develops and switch the energy over before destroying the dipole with current,... or something. It was lacking any detail on how to move this switch when I saw it earlier...
Cut short again. Time for work. A blessing and a curse, is it not? :) >:(
Otto,
"dfro said that the electrons pile up and THEN are switched into the circuit WITHOUT destroying the dipole. No current, when the pulse hits the coil!!"
this means according to T. Bearden: charging a capacitor, open the circuit (don't destroy the dipole) and then discharge directly the capacitor onto our 'Input coils'.
In our TPU you would need to do it at the 3 freqs...I wonder if technically is possible? Standard solution is the 'flying capacitor circuit' showed also by the same T. Bearden and showed on the papers you mentioned, but I doubt to be able to run it till 245KHz.......I may give it a try.
Roberto
@Roberto,
your thoughts are ok.
@All
To more confuse the people here:
.....very quick high voltage pulses, said dfro.
My comment is: like discharging a capacitor into our TPU.
OK guys, a question:
What happens when you quickly discharge a capacitor into the TPU wires??
On Monday I see maybe the right answer.
Im posting in this way because I want a discussion and then we are maybe a step closer to the TPU.
Otto
No, Im not brighter then the people here. Im still a little man from a little country,ha,ha.
Quote from: ronotte on January 11, 2008, 07:44:11 AM
....discharge directly the capacitor onto our 'Input coils'.
In our TPU you would need to do it at the 3 freqs...I wonder if technically is possible? Standard solution is the 'flying capacitor circuit' showed also by the same T. Bearden and showed on the papers you mentioned, but I doubt to be able to run it till 245KHz..
Hi,
as you know I have no real knowledge about electronics. But maybe you can trigger the
discharge-cycles at a slower speed/rate/frequency than the charging cycles !?
For example:
If you have 3 freqs:
35kHz
70kHz
245kHz
you could try the discharge at a common denominator of these 3 frequencies.
i.e. at 35kHz or even go to the "lowest common denominator" of these 3 frequencies, which in this example would be 7Hz for the discharge cycle.
The discharge cycle just needs to be harmonic and be phase locked with the charging cycles.
Could such a "frequency reduction" also be the way to "control the beast"?
Maybe in a properly tuned TPU the relationship between charging-frequency and discharge-frequency does auto-adjust !?
My dream is to "fabricate the 3 frequencies out of one basic frequency" through relation of the dimensions (i.e. circumference and lengths) of the wires/coils.
edit PS:I was thinking a bit more about the relationship between length of CCs and length of collector coils.
Otto and Roberto have both confirmed the importance of the frequencies:
35 kHz and
245 kHz.
We know that 245 equals 7*35.
If we want to achieve a closed loop we will have to feed the TPU with only one frequency instead of 2 or 3.
The frequency or signal which goes in must be the same as of the signal which is derived at the output.
I think the operation of the TPU in a closed loop must be based on the "circle of fifth" (DE: Quintnezirkel, IT: circolo delle quinte), as this system presents a closed loop and was discovered a long time ago. It is also directly related to geometry and many patterns of development/growth which can be found in nature.
The basis of the "circle of fifth" is the octave. An octave represents a frequency and the double of this frequency.
An octave is divided into basically 7steps.
This division by 7 has to be achieved in and by the TPU itself through the choice of the right wire dimensions. The lengths of different CCs (i.e. the
distances of signal travel and their inter-relationships) are a factor which directly influences the resulting frequency mix.
In "electronics speak" one could say that the choice of wire dimensions directly influences capacitance and self-inductance.
So two mathematical relations of frequencies and wire lengths seem most important:
the first is:
1) basic frequency * 7 ( see above)
and the second is:
2) basic frequency *2^n, (to produce the octaves of the basic frequency).
"Octaves" is a way of saying that the next multiple always has to be double of the one before.
So I want to wind a TPU like this:
I determine the length of the collector and take this as the basis for all following calculations, because the collector length (Col_length) is directly related to the circumference of the TPU.
Then the length of the first CC (Lcc1) should be:
Lcc1 = 2^n*Col_length (that is the first octave or any higher octave)
Length of the second CC (Lcc2) should be:
Lcc2 = 7/12 *Lcc1
or 0.618*Lcc1 (that is the quinte)
Length of the third CC (Lcc3) should be:
Lcc3 = 7/12 *2*Lcc1
or 1.618 *Lcc1
Maybe I will try to wind all 3 CCs so, that they have equal mass. This means that the longest of the CCs has to be made of the thinest wire.
@Otto and @Roberto
Good works to both of you as always. The OU Duo rides again!!!
I will do a build soon given that in 2008, I would like to first extend my understanding beyond or before a build and I am elaborating certain possible changes to the design concentrating more on the non-PS aspect given my EE limitations, non-PS is right up my alley with the mini-TPU design.
I am wondering about a few things if possible to test on your units and report as this will give a better idea on how to make my build variations. With several build variations and accumulated results, I think all will have better progress. Hope you agree.
So here are some questions.
1) Have either of you checked the peripheral mag field with a compass to try and trace any evident north/south polarities. Also check with the device on its side or vertically placed.
2) Is it possible to try any frequencies in F1 and F3 and send a 2-6 vdc pulse into F2.
3) Can you try the following in F1 and F3 with your current builds.
F1= 258 F3=5607
F1= 35000 F3=35007.XX
F1= 35000 F3=41000
F1= 1 F3=8.XX
F1= 60 F3=67.XX
F1= 3600 F3=3607.XX
4) Can you identify the voltage range of the frequencies you are using to feed the device.
5) Can you provide the ohms values of each F1 to F3 and mobiuses and do you have any idea on the wire lengths used. (for Erfinder calculations).
6) The only place on this build where all three coils will crossover is at the base. Is it possible to skin one of these intersections (base center opposite the zero point) and compare what you see on the scope at your regular location to that intersection. If you do not understand this, that's ok, it is not critical.
7) Is it possible to isolate F2 and put it on the scope, put F1 and F3 in series, send both frequencies to the start of F1 and scope at the end of F3 and compare this with the isolated F2.
The difference with Bearden is that he is using an armature to store energy and also displace energy between the coils. Item #7 above would show if such transfer is possible without an armature and with only frequencies going through the same side.
I am also convinced that the OTPU also used Beardens mag field shifting within the two discs. However it is done, shifting, mag field displacement, etc., if you have a real magnet in the system, on the relaxing part of the cycle, the mag field will always come back to the original field position. So one field pushes the mag field out, relaxes and the mag field returns automatically (free return). It is to be seen if such a scheme is possible with air cores and if the effect between frequency driven coils is substantial enough to promote a loop.
Last test like #7 but colliding the frequencies.
8) Is it possible to isolate F2 and put it on the scope, put F1 and F3 in series, send lowest frequency to the start of F1 and highest frequency into end of F3 so that both frequencies will meet in the middle (at the series connection) where you will scope and compare this with F2. By adjusting the frequencies, you should be able to find those that will meet at the series connection with the highest bang.
Note that some of the above tests do not consider the mobius at this stage since all I want to know is the dynamics of the coils and not their effect on the mobius loops. So these are just some ideas I was curious about to consider any possible changes to this design. In particular, what if the cork was replaced by the same material Bearden used for his armature. I know it was not a standard laminated core.
Otto, on your last question of cap discharge, I have done this many many times (manual cap discharge was my fort? before EM's mini-TPU. lol) and you will feel the kick and possibly hear the pop given those loose verticals. It would be good to test with all coils in series, first F3, to F2, to F1 and send the discharge from either end and check voltage on the mobius. There are so many possibilities.............. I'll have one soon.
Again, great works.
Hi Wattsup,
I'm happy that you are rising interesting questions...!!! Let me think a little and I'll do my best to answer
Thanks
Roberto
@ otto - dischargeing the cap into the coils the, coil contracts shifting the mag field , doing this in fast timeing vibrates the mag feild (unstable) now we have the coil contracting and the controls going in the oppisite direction very fast! now thats a heater ...... then it reversis mmmmm oh then we have to deal with the high voltage spikes going no where ......does this sound like an elctronic slinky...
@Otto,
HI!!!
.....THE BEAST NOW DOES AUTO-OSCILLATE WITH A ROCK STABLE FREQUENCY OF 22.222KHz, presence of a component just over 200KHz is also evident
It does need only a brief kick from a small battery or just few oscillations from one oscilator to keep alive and stay alive continuosly even with the load connected.
Only the PS is connected: +12V @0.36A
The signal you see (Zero line on centre) is taken differentially across the lamp. The lamp itself is just a little reddish (first Pic).
Then I rised the PS voltage to 40V @1.34A: now the lamp is at half power......autosustaining...note the vertical scale (second pic);
The freq is very stable and it does correspond to the device own resonating frequency.
Roberto
I'm sure you have checked this but the question will be asked. Is it possible your power supply is the source of the frequency? A switching power supply has done-in more than one researcher.
(Yes, I know you have invested in a great PS)
Where you are now I would be pulling my battery from the car to confirm or using some lantern batteries in series.
------------------
I think you now have a magnetic oscillator! This alone is RARE success.
BUCK --> BOOST --> CONVERSION --> REPEAT <?>
Does the natural frequency change when a magnet is nearby?
Does the frequency change (especially the 200kHz component) with time of day? (you probably need time to answer this ;)
Sure,
NO OSCILLATIONS ON PS RAILS, ALREADY TESTED WITH A CAR 12V accumulator:OK
YES, it is possible to change the freq either with a strong NEO placed at 180? from the windindings start: in this case the rep rate is quicker 40 microsec or by putting Tank capacitor on input coil.
This afternoon I'll do other verifications.
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on January 12, 2008, 07:07:49 AM
@Otto,
HI!!!
.....THE BEAST NOW DOES AUTO-OSCILLATE WITH A ROCK STABLE FREQUENCY OF 22.222KHz, ...
...........
The freq is very stable and it does correspond to the device own resonating frequency.
Hi Roberto,
my understanding of of your report is, that the voltage across the load has a frequency of 22.222KHz and when you disconnect the power supply and the load from the TPU you can detect (small) voltage-kicks at the same frequency (22.222KHz) at the TPU output.
Is this the correct understanding?
@Gustav22,
NO, sorry if you underststood that.
I try to explain it better:
1 I set PS=12V to TPU
2 I connected for one moment a freq (while probing on the lamp): any freq...not important in this case. On the lamp for a moment I saw the standard signal @ the inputted freq. OK?
3 I disconnected the freq while leaving the PS ON.
4 I found the sustaining signal on lamp even if no generator connected to TPU
Hope that now all is clear
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on January 12, 2008, 09:06:13 AM
Sure,
NO OSCILLATIONS ON PS RAILS, ALREADY TESTED WITH A CAR 12V accumulator:OK
YES, it is possible to change the freq either with a strong NEO placed at 180? from the windindings start: in this case the rep rate is quicker 40 microsec or by putting Tank capacitor on input coil.
This afternoon I'll do other verifications.
Roberto
Only a suggestion:
Decrease the number of turns on the control coils by the same ratio. If natural resonance is now 22.222kHz then try for 35.700kHz. This should place the daytime component nearer 245kHz. I suspect the nighttime component will be lower by ten's of kHz.
If modulation level drops at one point of a 24 hour day then think about either a turn count change (on the collector with fewer turns or fewer turns on its control coil) - to place mid range operation nearer the average frequency (day to night shift) -or- a change in inside/outside diameter. A narrow coil should have a higher Q. A coil with more difference between the ID and OD will have lower Q. You may need a lower Q on the high frequency coil to allow for day/night frequency shift.
Those of you thinking I am full of hot air please hold your remarks. This is only a suggestion. @ronotte is a grown boy ;D
It is the right time now to see if there is a shift. Hoping things are going well!
"dfro said that the electrons pile up and THEN are switched into the circuit WITHOUT destroying the dipole. No current, when the pulse hits the coil!!"
Some "clear" explanation on unconventional theories of electricity in this document NASA/CR-2005-213749.
read cap 3 "Advanced electric concepts" longitudinal current.
Marzio
Funny that "dfro" is not here...
Dump a capacitor and you get one hell of a current, so, I'm not sure what he meant...
Question: What does it mean to destroy the dipole?
that means to allow the force between two diffrent charges to balance.
so they are talking about discharging a cap without it getting empty.
to me the work done is the energy stored in the cap thus the force between the two charges, and when we take energy from this, it will drain.
i cannot see how to use the energy other then to multiply the tension without destroying the dipole.
M.
SM is supposed to have said you discharge a capacitor and stopping the discharge before the charge gets to the end of wire.
Perhaps he is in a round about way talking about preserving the dipole.
If you charge a capacitor and discharge it into a neon bulb, the discharge is instantaneous and the capacitor does not discharge fully. So if you had a coil in series, the capacitor discharges and the current in the coil is also disrupted instantaneously too.
I don't think you can get as fast switching with semiconductors. What is more, once the neon strikes, it will go into negative resistance.
"destroy the dipole"
http://www.vakuumenergie.de/theorie/cop.html
A new class of electromagnetic systems: Asymmetrical electromagnetic systems.
http://www.vakuumenergie.de/free_energy.html
Marzio
ronnote,
are your graphs generated without a signal input? That's amazing.
How long do the self oscillations last?
How long do you supply the input frequency, before you disconnected it?
very good work, I'm impressed !
EM
Quote
OK guys, a question:
What happens when you quickly discharge a capacitor into the TPU wires??
On Monday I see maybe the right answer.
Im posting in this way because I want a discussion and then we are maybe a step closer to the TPU.
Tesla ( discharging a capacitor in wires ) :
QuoteThen I discharge the condenser under conditions which result in the production of vibrations. Now, it was known since Lord Kelvin that the condenser discharge would give this vibration, but I perfected my apparatus to such a degree that it became an instrument utilizable in the arts, in a much broader way than Lord Kelvin had contemplated as possible. In fact, years afterwards when Lord Kelvin honored me by presenting to the British Association one of my oscillators of a perfected form, he said that it was "a wonderful development and destined to be of great importance.
Tesla ( energy from discharging a capacitor ):
QuoteEnergy stored in the condenser and discharged in an inconceivably small interval of time. You could not produce that activity with an undamped wave. The damped wave is of advantage because it gives you, with a generator of 1 kilowatt, an activity of 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 kilowatts; whereas, if you have a continuous or undamped wave, 1 kilowatt gives you only wave energy at the rate of 1 kilowatt and nothing more. ...
The condenser is the most wonderful instrument, as I have stated in my writings, because it enables us to attain greater activities than are practical with explosives. There is no limit to the energy which you can develop with a condenser. There is a limit to the energy which you can develop with an explosive.
And again Tesla on the resonant effect:
QuoteA large capacity and small self-inductance is the poorest kind of circuit which can be constructed; it gives a very small resonant effect.
...
To be more explicit, I take a very large self-inductance and a comparatively small capacity, which I have constructed in a certain way so that the electricity cannot leak out. I thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy.
Source: http://www.pbs.org/tesla/res/res_art07.html
hope this helps for the discussion
thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy.
This is the key which must be used.
As well I think i May have deciphered the timing sequence, @ OTTO please take this into account
Suppose im playing a triplet on a guitar as in 3/4 time "do do do" now let the ... represent the time in between repeating the sequence do do do.....do do do....do do do...do do do..do do do.do do do
Maybe dfro was proposing playing the sequence of the three frequencies in a loop and then speeding up that loop. now in a circuit sense you would need 3 timers so each control coil was pulsed in sequence after the prior. I dont know if your doing this already but if i had the scope and the function generators i would. Thanks for reading this as i know your extremely busy
Joe
@ Grumpy:
Dfro was last on jan 2, so think he still drops in to see whats going on. Would be interesting to know where his IP originates from. Oh well.
thaelin
Hello all,
My TPU - "Capacitor"
This weekend I was looking for a better solution to connect my coils.
I didnt look at my drawing. Connected in a lot of ways, tried to have nice or crazy signals...
Now I have something totally crazy:
my TPU is connected to the power supply at 12V/0,4A. The bulb is connected but no light.
When I tune my highest frequency near around 208kHz it suddenly happens: the voltage from the power supply rises to 40V and sometimes a lot higher. The current rises from 0,4A to over 2A.
When this happens the bulb is lighted a little and then the TPU "discharges" slowly, the voltage and current are slowly falling to 12V.
It seems that The TPU is like a capacitor: very fast charging and slowly discharging.
Im working only with the coils, nothing more. No cap is connected to the TPU.
I was also using 2 frequencies and saw the same effect.
As the current limiter is all the time f...g me I wil today connect the TPU to my home made power supply without a current limiter to see whats going on in my TPU. Of course, without to connect my scope.
Otto
Quote from: otto on January 14, 2008, 02:08:42 AM
Otto
"The new master of magnetics" ? Seems like you are on the verge. Just be careful not to cause a meltdown, we want you around to build us all a tpu of our own.
Hello all,
@Freezer
Im a master of NOT understanding what Im doing!!
I learned a lot about coils but I know that I have to learn, learn.. much more.
Otto
@EM,
1 - The scope graphs I posted (big to be clear) are obtained
WITHOUT ANY INPUT SIGNAL CONNECTED.
2 - The waveform posted are instaurated just after injecting for about a moment (< than 1 sec) one input freq, then I switched-off the generator.
3 - The TPU itself does continue to operate at said frequency indefinitely: it also does deliver current to the lamp in the first quadrant only. I also tried to rectifie and level the pulses you have seen obtaining same results and the oscillations do not stop or change.
In this way the TPU at least classify itself as a black-box auto-resonating at 22.22 KHz stable and repeteable at any time.
Thinking about this I see a possible explanation:
may be that the mosfets, even if without any input, do capture from the surroundings some electrical fields or more simply, as the their Drains leads are connected to the coils them just feed back some signal (via internal stray capacitance and/or Miller effect) directly to their own Gates...so establishing a feedback path...that in turn does operate the Mosfets themselves...well is just a theory. Actually the current drain, with the same voltage setting on PS, in this operational mode is much less (than when feeding the 3 freqs in).
Roberto
Hello all,
@Roberto,
maybe you can measure the capacitance of your complete TPU???
Otto
Otto,
I'm amazed by the low freq overall auto-resonance of 6" TPU at 22.22KHz. It does means that we have to lower the (input Coils) turns count in order to bring it higher for example to 35 KHz? Hmmmmm.
Please make the same test and see what happen:
1 - connect all your 3 generators to the 3 Mosfets but keep them shutted-OFF.
2 - apply +12V or what you want to TPU
3 - just switch on only one freq for 1 sec, then turn-off the generator
Report if you have sustained oscillations....
I can measure all single coils inductance and then add all the stray capacitance...and see
Roberto.
@ronotte
Your theory is plausible. If Miller capacitance is doing this then you may have a MOSFET Negative-gm differential VCO. It is possible to build a very simple polyphase oscillator doing this.
This could explain why I'm not seeing the same thing. My opto-coupler is part of my FET assembly inside the coil.
If true then this is still a great realization - good way to know the true resonance points and tune without generators.
hmmm.... a polyphase blocking negative-gm voltage controlled oscillator? PBNgmVCO ! - There. I've coined the name! ;D
Seriously - this would be the simplicity needed and the same effect can be done with tubes/valves.
Roberto,
no doubt that I want to try it.
As I remember, your collectors have the same nuber of turns??
Again, please, measure the picofarads in your TPU!
Otto
Not sure if this is off-topic, if so sorry ;)
Where does G-strain fit in? Look here: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/gseamnu.htm
when you scroll down you'll see this picture:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjnaudin.free.fr%2Fseike%2Fseike1.jpg&hash=68d3cd52265ba02bc705f8ba6c9513d2dca1061c)
Looks slightly familiair
@Otto, BEP,
I do join with your thinking as , if again confirmed, it does means that we CAN GET RID of all the electronics stuff as it's simplicity is really stunning.
Otto, I can make any measure you want: this evening I'll start, but firstly I'll check again the 'sustained operation' and doing it while increasing the voltage applied till +45V...I can't wait to see what will happen.
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
Quote from: otto on January 14, 2008, 07:51:45 AM
...
As I remember, your collectors have the same nuber of turns??
...
I also wanted to ask you the same question.
As otto's collector setup is like this:
Quote from: otto on January 06, 2008, 03:13:58 AM
...
top collector - 9 turns - lamp wire
middle collector - 5 turns - lamp wire
bottom collector - 3 turns - lamp wire
...
How many collector-loops do you have in each of the 3 stacks?
Hi Otto, Gustav22,
it happens that both Otto and me did the collector-coils in the same time without knowing....so not having any special clue to follow I did the 3 collector coils all the same: 6 turns of standard twin lamp-wire of 0.75mm diameter.
Roberto
@All
If it is easier....
For resonance changes:
I suggest increasing the number of control coil turns to bring the frequency up. In perpendicular induction it seems here that the number of times the control wind 'cuts' (squeezes?)the collector has more control over frequency. The spacing and quantity of control coil turns almost relates to waves.
If this is true you could increase the 57 turns to increase natural resonance -or- INCREASE the amount of wire on the collector so it is 'cut' (squeezed) more often.
Very confusing - I know.
@Otto
As long as you connected the Power supply to the TPU, you always found strange discoveries. You seems forgot the Power supply feed control circuit story. I don't want to bother your funny experiment. But I hope you could be more concentrate to real finding. Why not use a battery instead of power supply. Could you still get the same result while using battery? It may be less funny!
@Otto
You said about learning, you seems learned something but after a while then forgot everything. How many times you were played by the Power supply feed back control circuit. What happened this time is still the frequency jam into your power supply lead to a higher than the preset voltage at the output. You alway think the power came from the TPU but actually from your Power supply that power source from your power company. If you don't believe me, you can use a current clamp meter to check your input current to your power supply. This is why I suggest you should always use a battery to do all experiment.
@ ronotte, short question:
Did you try to first cut of the signal-input and then disconnect the mosfets... ? Do you reached then auto-oscillating, too ?
deleted: double post
@Frederic21,
I've already answered to your question, have a look to: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg70531.html#msg70531
Ronotte
Quote from: ronotte on January 14, 2008, 02:06:47 PM
@Frederic21,
I've already answered to your question, have a look to: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg70531.html#msg70531
Ronotte
Yes, I've read your possible explanation. But my question was, if you can confirm your theory when you disconnect the mosfets from the TPU. Will there in this case also be a soustaining oscillation, without the electronic components (mosfets) connected to the TPU.
Hope I could explain it better to you.
Kind regards.
[
QuoteThinking about this I see a possible explanation:
may be that the mosfets, even if without any input, do capture from the surroundings some electrical fields or more simply, as the their Drains leads are connected to the coils them just feed back some signal (via internal stray capacitance and/or Miller effect) directly to their own Gates...so establishing a feedback path...that in turn does operate the Mosfets themselves...well is just a theory. Actually the current drain, with the same voltage setting on PS, in this operational mode is much less (than when feeding the 3 freqs in).
Quote from: otto on January 14, 2008, 03:01:13 AM
Hello all,
@Freezer
Im a master of NOT understanding what Im doing!!
I learned a lot about coils but I know that I have to learn, learn.. much more.
Otto
Yea, always more information to learn, I just think you guys have made very good progress with what you've had to work with, and perhaps this forum could change the way people think about new power sources.
Hi ronotte and otto,
It sounds like the oscillations are still present after the function generator is disconnected because the MOSFETs are still connected and the Gate is driven by stray fields.Ã, Ã, It's a very plausable explanation and can be checked very easily by disconecting the MOSFETS as wellÃ, (after first disconnecting the generator)
Guys,Ã, Ã, here's a circuit that will resonate pretty much anything you can throw at it.Ã, Ã,Â
It uses the concept of NEGATIVE RESISTANCE.Ã, Ã, (a bit more complicated then simple Gunn or Tunnel diode circuits but easily configurable and more versatile)
You can just hook up your TPU to it and if it has a resonat mode it will pump it and start resonating.
The beauty of these Negative Oscillators is that they eliminate the need for explicit FEEDBACK to accomplish oscillation and all you have is two wires coming out, that represent the terminals of a NEGATIVE resistor.Ã, Then just hook up your resonant tank circuit to these wires and it will start to oscillate.Ã, The theory says that due to the ever present small resistance in coils and capacitors, the power will be dissipated and any oscillations will stop.Ã, However, hooking up a negative resistance in SERIES with the tank circuit, will cancel out the small positive resistance and allow the circuit to actually build up in oscillations.Ã, The power of course comes from the circuit power supply.
Disclaimer:Ã, Ã, Just in case you think I'm realy smart, this is not my invention, there are a few different circuits out there for accomplishing this same thing, and of course Gunn diodes etc..
Enjoy, and let me know how your TPU works with it.
EM
All electronic engineers know that have to put a resistor to G-S of a MOSFET in order to avoid oscillation. Otherwise it must oscillates that only need 20mm wire connected to MOSFET's Gate. It is very basic electronic knowledge. You guys seems not doing free energy research but reinvent electronic knowledge from years ago.
Remember life is short, don't waste time. Mr ZPE explains very detail about electronic knowledge in order to avoid you guys from wasting time. It is very good, but he absent from this forum for a long time.
Hello all,
Im a little %&/$ because I was yesterday not able to connect again my coils like in my own drawing. I tried it really hard but no light, nothing.
I must say that I had this weekend a few really big discharges with fire inside my TPU but I hope that the coils are OK. I cant see them.
Im always comparing my ECD TPU with the TPU that I have in this moment. Im missing something in my TPU:
SECONDARY COILS
to say it in this way.
Im in a big trouble. Dfro, Im following his posts, says:
1. Input coils - our control coils
2. Vertical coils - our feedback coils
3. Collectors - our collectors
4. Coils wound around imaginary wheel spokes!!!
Are this our secondary coils?? Any idea what and how??
In my ECD I saw in my coils arcs in kilovolts. This is what Im missing in my TPU.
@Marcel,
the schematic showes us what Im talking about: a primary AND a secondary, 3 of them.
@EM
you ARE smart. I saw at Naudins site the negative resistor with a few 2N2222 transistors. Its worth a try.
@tosky
yes, a battery.
You mentioned a current clamp meter. Fine. In the lab where I had my demonstration, the guys wanted to measure the current feeded back into the grid. They used a veeery expensive current clamp meter for high frequencies connected to some sort of scope. They measured that Im feeding back 160A at 1 frequency and then I changed the frequency and then they measured 200A!! Yes, two hundred amperes.
They checked everything on their current clamp meter: the connections, the current range....everything was OK but still reading 200A.
I have to say that I used a power supply with a regulation transformer. Its clear, such a transformer has a direct connection with the grid, the secondary is NOT isolated from the mains like in a classical transformer.
Otto
@Otto
I don't say O.U. but free energy. If your clamp meter really show you 200A to the power grid, then you should declare success of getting free energy. I would sincerely learn from you. Don't forget even a great scientist often fooled by simply circuits. I should talk about logic. If 200A current could be feed to power grid and really generated by the TPU then you could use a battery to store it. The battery never have to be charged again, circuit runs forever. Otherwise there must be something wrong with the measurement. This is logic, you don't need to be scientist to understand it. very very simple logic. If I want, I can also do something to feed 200A back to the power grid. But in micro or mini Second range, it is not power or energy unit but only current unit. The battery will average the current into small unit of energy, because the step up circuit still consumes energy. By using the battery to do experiment, you could easy see this logic like a compass shows you the way to get free energy, prevent confusion and speed up the research process.
@Otto
Check the spec. of the clamp meter. It is designed to read the pure DC current or AC 50HZ, 60HZ(Sine wave). Other wave form or high frequency or not pure DC will give you wrong reading. Switching power supply have to implement line filter to prevent the high frequency feed back to the power grid. So your discovery is normal knowledge known by electronic engineer.
Quote from: tosky on January 15, 2008, 01:30:52 AM
All electronic engineers know that have to put a resistor to G-S of a MOSFET in order to avoid oscillation. Otherwise it must oscillates that only need 20mm wire connected to MOSFET's Gate. It is very basic electronic knowledge. You guys seems not doing free energy research but reinvent electronic knowledge from years ago.
Did this engineers say also where this oszillation is comeing from? Do you have a reference?
And why to avoid if it is a useable oscillation?
@rensseak
You can reference to the datasheet. of the MOSFET from the manufacturer. The datasheet tells the (minimum , typical, maximum) of the G-S cap. This cap. is not wanted and the manufacturer always want to keep it small.
It is not a cap designed on purpose just a side product of the manufacturing process. So no one will use a side product for a reliable circuit to do some function. It's value also not guarantee.
When there is a Capacitor(MOSFET), an Inductor(wire), Energy (Magnetic field). Oscillation condition established. Only need to trigger it once, it will begin to oscillate. But the frequency and amplitude will change according to the conditions.
Hi all,
Otto, in your case I fear you have damaged (opened) one or more of the enameled wire coils: that's the reason why I did all the coils (except the feedback coils) using high isolated electrical wire.
EM, I can't disconnect now the Mosfets as they are soldered inside the TPU and thanks for the Negative Resistor circuit. Anyway two thinghs may clear the scenario about auto-oscillation:
1 - While doing this tests I forgot to say that I'm using a 'pulse transformer approach' to drive the power Mosfets so NO NEED TO PUT RESISTOR TO AVOID STRAY INDUCTION FIELDS on the Mosfet's Gate (distance between pulse-transformer - Mosfet's Gate < 10mm.
2 - Actually the oscillations does trigger while the 3 function generators are indeed phisically connected to pulse transformers (located inside the TPU) BUT SWITCHED OFF!!!. So no way that I know to capture stray field as generators output impedance is low = 50 Ohm (the same happens while generator is ON but the output digitally set to 0.01V) and I used mostly shielded cables. The pulse-transformers themselves are of course very low sensitive to stray fields as they are built.
It does remain the fact that the depicted scenario is well stable & repetitive and does deliver power. I'm also still convinced that in some way the mosfet, inside the TPU are working but, as the current required (at 12V) is much less that required with standard pulsing on the same frequency, may be that they run in a different modality. A waveform confrontation in different circuit points could be of help in understanding.
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
regarding the following:
Quote from: ronotte on January 15, 2008, 04:05:16 AM
...I can't disconnect now the Mosfets as they are soldered inside the TPU ...
and this
Quote from: ronotte on January 15, 2008, 04:05:16 AM... A waveform confrontation in different circuit points could be of help in understanding...
and also
BEP's idea that the amount of copper of the CCs should be adjusted/reduced to move the auto-resonating-frequency closer to 35 kHz.edit after BEP spotting my mistake:
BEP's idea that the number of turns of the CCs should be adjusted to move the auto-resonating-frequency closer to 35 kHz.
All these tests and verifications are very important but all would require that you interfere with the unit.
I think you should
NOT disassemble or open the actual unit you presently have, if you can avoid it.
I would rather recommend to make a replication (or even two) and then play/change/adjust the parameters/specs on those clones.
I volunteer to help you winding them.
@Gustav,
THANK, of course at least for now
I WILL NOT DISASSEMBLE MY UNIT
I've a rich scheduled & organized tests to do so I'll go-on with:
- Discover the trend of output on lamp by executing a complete F1 sweep (range 2 - 70KHz) for different PS voltage (range 5 - 45V)
- the same but using F1+F2
-the same but using F1+F2+F3
At the end I should have a complete useful (I hope) scenario.
If anybody like to suggest other meaningfull test I'll be happy to discuss.
Roberto
Quote from: Gustav22 on January 15, 2008, 06:33:18 AM
BEP's idea that the amount of copper of the CCs should be adjusted/reduced to move the auto-resonating-frequency closer to 35 kHz.
Please be aware with this type of inductive coupling many of the concepts are REVERSED, or should I say perpendicular :)
To increase the frequency of the collector you must increase the turns of the collector while maintaining the number of turns of the control.
You may also increase the number of control turns while maintaining the collector turns.
Increasing the collector mass only will slow the current and the resonant point.
So my sugggestion for the next one is either add collector turns OR add control turns to INCREASE the resonant point.
@ronotte
Please supply the specs or manufacturer/part number of your MOSFET gate transformer. I will take mine apart as it is not duplicating your results.
Also, are your MOSFETS still without a heat sink? I'm wondering about density of charges on the backplane of the MOSFET.
IFa field is rotating in your TPU - would not that field be able to trigger the MOSFET as it passed? - simply because the FET part is made to be effected by fields :o
dupe
@BEP,
- The pulse transformer I'm using are doing very well their job and do provide isolation up to 2.8KV (there is a model that goes up to 5KV). They are cheap and may be found easily (cost is about 4 - 6 Euros/each).
OXFORD ELECTRICAL PRODUCTS
Pulse transformer (1:1) 3 mH, pcb mount, 2KHz - 1MHz range) model PT4 or PT42E (for 5KV isolation)
- I'm still using my initial dotation of IRFP460 power Mosfet. In my current TPU V10-7 they are positioned inside the TPU itself and are provided with big Al heat-sink. This has been proven necessary as when you do tests often you are far from resonance ...or may make any kind of errors...so these devices with Ron < 0.4Ohm (if I remember well...) are potentially able to sink lot of current and so get burned before you (..that are looking at the scope....) are aware of it! My suggestion is to use always current limited PS, decouple it just off the TPU, eventually insert a 2Ohm protective resistor (..anyway this solution will have big impact on BEMF...so I don't use it).
-By using pulse transformer (put between Gate and Source) the mosfet Gate has always a low DC path to it's own Source: this drastically eliminate any possible induction from anywere (the mosfet constructors do strongly sufggest to use said solution....): I have seen it very well. The Mosfets themselves are put near the TPU centre.
- BEP, I'm interested about your suggestions on turn's number especially about the rules you mentioned, would you be so nice to explain it in deep or point me where to find full reports?
Here is my design:
Roberto
ATTENTION TO EVERYBODY
THIS THREAD IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS AS EVERYTIME I POST SOMETHING OR I PM SOMETHING,
SOMEONE TRY TO SNEAK INTO MY COMPUTER A TROJAN
HARTI: PLEASE TRY TO STOP THIS ACTIVITY
ROBERTO
QuoteNEGATIVE RESISTANCE
exerb from the Book "WAVEFORMS" - MIT Radiation Laboratory Series 1949
---- page 123
Negative-resistance Oscillators - ... Devices that exhibit negative resistance can be constructed in several ways. One of the simplest and best known methods make use of the secondary emission form the plate of a vacuum tube. An oscillator employing this type of negative resistance is called a "dynatron oscillator". Most of the modern tubes are treated to reduce secondary emission but some older tubes exhibit this phenomenon very markedly.
----
Note that "modern" in the text references 1949 !!!
I am wondering if SM has used this knowledge when first constructed the TPU. As he stated with vacuum tubes it is easier to make it work.
Just a thought
double post
HEY Harti: what's happening?
Roberto
@Wattsup,
I apologize in delay answering to your questions, so I try now:
1 - I've cheked in the past the magnetic field around (3D) the ECD: very, very interesting, not yet for TPU V10-7.
2 - YES it is possible.
3 - YES it is possible.
4 - I do not understand what you are asking. Please detail better it.
5 - YES, for the moment I can say that: bottom mobius wire-lenght is 5 meters, middle 6 meters and top a little more than 7 meters all Twin wire lamp-cord 0.75mm diameter.
6 - NO when you are finished you cannot have access to TPU interior coils.
7 - YES it is possible as I've run all the coils onto Terminal blocks, Yes I can also reverse the input coils connections in order to make colliding fields.
8 - YES , like 7
Of course it will take lot of free time that now I don't have, but it's a meaningfull set of tests that should be tried as soon as possible.
Roberto
@Ronotte
On your question about turns:
I am finding things true, in my coils, that I cannot find documented. This does not mean it is new.
As far as resonance goes keep in-mind LMD is part of this. LMD speed is changed by the potential and the transit mass. Big pipe=low flow - small pipe = fast flow >> if the volume traveling is the same. TEM uses velocity factor and length. LMD version of velocity factor appears to be derived from potential, conductor mass and volume.
My control coils are not the same as yours. Mine are one conductor wrapped back upon itself in the opposite handedness with equal turns each way. This creates better cancellation between turns but stronger perpendicular induction into the collector AND no visible BEMF (60 mHz Hameg or Tektronix 100 mHz digital - probably there but not visible unless the coil is wound normal).
I found the collector frequency is a result of the ratio of turns between the collector and control AND the wire size of the collector AND the voltage applied. So, Yes! The resonance is a result of the circumference. Not just the outer circumference but also the inner.
I must make this all clearer in my own mind before I dump all of it onto you. There are still some aspects that I must repeat to confirm.
------------
The question about the heatsink is because in the early 90's it was found the new(current) MOSFET design would go into conduction if the magnetic field (surrounding the MOSFET) approached zero. Most answers are theory as to why but it usually happens when a dielectric charge buildup occurs on the baseplate (maybe because of weakening mag field?)
MOSFETs have not been true MOSFETs for a very long time. -- My understanding is they do not have a metal oxide substrate. The only ones that do are made by IBM or found in old motor drive controls.
So it may also be possible a passing dielectric field is triggering or modulating the MOSFET. Your idea about gm is still more likely.
:-*
Quote from: -[marco]- on January 15, 2008, 03:26:07 PM
:-*
Exactly!
1AX2's do well also ;D
Edit>>>>>>>>
I'm starting to believe the story of the tube and kick is both an example and an analogy of the key function of a working TPU. (DUH!)
Not only are they miniature particle accelerators they are also energy converters. Electricity goes in one end, is converted to dielectric and back to electric before going out. There is no control except when the energy is dielectric. The speeds of either are completely different. Their reaction to magnetic fields is completely different.
The idea of activating a cathode on my bench to cause dielectric flow from 200 KM above my head is a little worrysome.
Quote from: BEP on January 15, 2008, 05:04:46 PM
(snip)
The idea of activating a cathode on my bench to cause dielectric flow from 200 KM above my head is a little worrysome.
Hey BEP, I have not laughed so hard in a very long time!! :D ;D ;D
So TRUE, but SO funny!
Bruce
Quote from: BEP on January 15, 2008, 05:04:46 PM
Quote from: -[marco]- on January 15, 2008, 03:26:07 PM
:-*
Exactly!
1AX2's do well also ;D
Edit>>>>>>>>
I'm starting to believe the story of the tube and kick is both an example and an analogy of the key function of a working TPU. (DUH!)
Not only are they miniature particle accelerators they are also energy converters. Electricity goes in one end, is converted to dielectric and back to electric before going out. There is no control except when the energy is dielectric. The speeds of either are completely different. Their reaction to magnetic fields is completely different.
The idea of activating a cathode on my bench to cause dielectric flow from 200 KM above my head is a little worrysome.
Oh my goodness!
are you daring to suggest that electron tubes change the nature of the electron speed within them?
Further, the quality of the output is different than what went in?
Perhaps the electrons are reconstituted in some way that makes them respond to their environment in ways that they would not otherwise. FRESH ELECTRONS.....sounds silly, I know.
Perhaps that is why "there is no reason that ss devices would be easier to use today than 25 years ago"
They are of course much faster than ss devices...........
I suspect that we might want to use them at the upper end of their supply voltage...even more speed
Thanks, BEP ,marco, Great stuff from all who solder and wind
Hi BEP:
Quote from: BEP on January 15, 2008, 01:36:52 PM
My control coils are not the same as yours. Mine are one conductor wrapped back upon itself in the opposite handedness with equal turns each way.
Is your control coil wrapped in the way one would consider to be a caduceus configuration?
Thanks.
nap
Quote from: slapper on January 15, 2008, 09:31:59 PM
Is your control coil wrapped in the way one would consider to be a caduceus configuration?
I am reluctant to use names for coils as they tend to be renamed over the years as new inventors claim them as a new idea. (See other coils on this forum) Bifilar series counter-wound with a minimal pitch would be most correct. The idea was to have equal intensity of magnetic polarity and use the dielectric radiant instead of magnetic - inside and outside. Kind of like inside a tube when conducting. It'll never be perfect but it does a good job of 'squeezing the hose'.
If you want two waves in the hose squeeze it in two places. If you want to double the waves then double the turns in the collector/hose (not quite that simple). For every time you squeeze expect anywhere from 2 to 6 somewhat delayed pulses of the same polarity (and lower amplitude) in response.
@Btentzer,
I wasn't laughing when I made that comment.
The beam created in a CRT has both mass and momentum. Maybe this is why my hair keeps migrating South.
@Mannix,
I have never disagreed with anything you have on this last comment except the SS stuff. Yes, it is easier to see such things with VT's. I am not convinced this can't be done with SS. Indeed it'll be easier for many today to pursue with SS. But I'll wager it'll be cracked using a VT first.
VT as a frequency mixer:
-----
As the name implies the heptode has 7 elements, one cathode, 5 grids, and 1 plate. This tube is often called a pentagrid converter. Pentagrid as in 5 grids. It has one application, to serve as a mixer in radio receivers. (I have breadboarded and tested an audio voltage controlled amplifier using one of these tubes, but that's another story).
The Principle of Heterodyning
Heterodyning is more commonly known as "mixing", "conversion" or "modulation". OK; but what is it? If you combine two frequencies in a device known as a "mixer", "converter" or "modulator" you get two new frequencies. These new frequencies are the sum and difference of the two original frequencies. For example if you combine 5 MHz and 6 MHz in a mixer you get the two original frequencies and in addition you get 1 MHz and 11 MHz. If you combine 650 kHz and 1105 kHz you get 455 kHz, 650 kHz, 1105 kHz and 1755 kHz.
There are some types of mixers in which the original signals are canceled out and ONLY the sum and difference frequencies appear in the output. These devices are called "doubly balanced mixers" or DBMs for short. We will get to them shortly. But for now we will be talking about mixers in which the original two signals appear in the output along with the sum and difference frequencies.
So What is a Mixer?
Well, it's any nonlinear device. A nonlinear device is anything that has a graph that isn't a straight line. A diode, either vacuum or semiconductor makes an excellent mixer. A tube or transistor which is being driven into overload is another excellent mixer. The balanced variety consists of combinations of diodes and transformers, or transistors (usually in an integrated circuit). The beam deflection tube was developed in the 1960s that was a balanced mixer, but we're getting ahead of ourselves again.
The Superhet Receiver
The heptode was developed in the 1930s to combine the functions of oscillator and mixer into a single tube. Before that the two functions required two separate tubes. Reducing tube count also reduced cost so there was a great incentive to combine functions of two tubes into one.
----
Source : http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/Book_CHAP-4B.html
Hope that helps in the discussion
Thanks BEP :)
Hello all,
Now my TPU is NOT feeding anymore my power supply. Not 1 Volt!!
As we all know we have 3 collectors and there are a lot of posibilities to connect them. I made only 1 wrong connection and had a lot of troubles.
We can connect the collectors in the way I showed in my picture or as 3 Mobiuses or...
In the 3 stack TPU picture is not shown whats in the middle of the TPU but there Im missing something else:
the "secondary" coils.
Are such coils wrapped like imaginary wheel spokes??? Is this what I miss??
I thought that my feedback coils would give me the needed high voltage but I was wrong. NO HV!!
We need a high voltage because this means we have accelerated our particles. This is only 1 of the reasons to use tubes. OK tubers, I dont want to discuss other reasons.
In my ECD, that worked fine, I had also "secondary coils to have a high voltage and I had a nice light with only 12V from my power supply. What if I would rise the voltage just a little?? a few volts??
I think it was yesterday when I asked about ideas how to wind the coils like imaginary wheel spokes.
Its time for a new TPU with coils like in the 3 stack TPU + aditional coils - secondary coils for high voltage. This weekend I have time.
Maybe I have to go back and build a ECD TPU but with the coils wound like in the 3 stack picture so I can compare my results with the original 3 stack TPU??
As you all can see a lot of &%$# in my little brain.
Otto
@Otto,
after having both partially tested (still work-in-progress) and much more thinking about the schematic you posted, in order to be more conforming to dfro suggestions and the LMD architecture, I propose following variations. Anyway till now I've not yet have the time to check them as I do prefer to complete the tests on V10-7 unit.
The design does take into account the LMD architecture as detailed in the second pic.
Of course tht's just a proposal...may be that it's also not so correct....
Roberto
Hello,
@Roberto,
nice drawing.I was thinking in the same manner. Its clear that this is not the end of our work. Its only 1 of the ways and there are a lot of them.
All the time Im missing our "3 cannons story"!!
What if we need the connections in this way: control coil (with the cap and diode) to collector, in series, then next control coil to collector then next..... only in this way we have the 3 cannons ...and then the feedback coils....
Otto
Hmmm...
3 cannons or 3 sequencial accelerator rings like found in old Trinitrons?
This would be more like another project - The BFG2000 ;D
@Roberto
About that trojan, are you using Internet Explorer. There is (or was) an issue last week when using IE when you go to the home page of the forum it would download a trojan, but this does not happen in the threads. I got his trojan and it took alot of work to get rid of it. Son of a b*&?h, wasted my whole weekend.
Also thank you for you response to my questions. I will give you more details on some of them soon. I am also happy to see you are using an isolated transformer for the supply as this eliminates alot of feed source questions.
Also, I like your drawing as it is following some of my thinking to test with isolating the F2 plus your diagram 3 showing frequencies from both sides. Good move.
Otto has asked twice his question on if there should be a secondary in the TPU and how. That is one of the questions of 2008.
Roberto, last night I took my 2-6vdc to 100kvdc device. The one that blew my multimeter. Shit...had to buy another one. I took a big 110vac transformer that has 6 secondary outputs. I connected one end of the 100kvolts to the primary, the other primary I sent to a secondary, then from there to another then another and so in series until it came back to the final 100kvdc connection. From a distance (lol) I turned on the DC power supply and gave only 4vdc at about 3 amps. The transformer started to produce random sparks and I started to smell ozone gas.
Why am I saying this. Well with only 12 watts of power I was producing such great continuous sparks plus ozone. Now I tried doing the same thing but this time only with the DC power supply set to feed no more than 12 watts dc and you already know this, there is nothing.
So what if the TPU has to be driven at 1000 volts, minimal amps, but repeated 1000 times per second to make more amps at the same voltage. Or what if with a higher voltage, the TPU becomes more of a dampenning device or voltage reducer. This conversion from high voltage to low voltage via the TPU design could be the way to produce OU and close the loop.
I think we all may be wasting so much time with our 12vdc. I feel that nothing is going to happen at these voltages which are dead slow and are just being chopped up by the high frequencies like a bread slicer and not giving any real movement effects in the TPU.
So, to answer Otto's question from what I can see, what is required is not a secondary but a novel way of driving the device at higher voltage.
If you take the tube analogy, what does a tube ultimately do. It increases voltage level and how to do this with SS. I already have the device and so do you. There must be other similiar SS devices that can do the same but for lower voltages in the 1000 range. I will try to find one. Put a few volts to make 1000 volts and work with this. If SM followed Tesla, most of his works were with HV or what Tesla called high frequency, so if SM was using tubes on the outset, this gave him high voltage to work with in the TPU. His saying this gave clean sound, could mean clean power. I thnk one of the tubes SM mentioned had a 500v ouput.
Wattsup,
I can't resist giving you THE ANSWER:
I WILL JUST USE MY ECD V2 TO DRIVE TPU V10-7 - THAT'S ALL.
Perhaps Saturday with the help of Gustav22 I'll try that!!!!
Thanks a lot for your suggestions. I'll keep you well informed.
Roberto
@Wattsup,
Why not try a variation of the Dr Stiffler Circuit, check out the thread Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler under the magnet coil setups. He is getting HV using a simple ferrite bar. Could this be what SM is doing with the small torrid in his deisgns? using a simple oscillator to step up a 9vdc source?
Hi all,
yesterday evening I partially solved the puzzle about my TPU V10-7 AUTO-OSCILLATION mode.
After some scope probing I found that only the middle power Mosfet was trickled into operation: all the others found OFF, don't ask me why as I don't know...at least for the moment. Of course capacitance feedback to Gate is the answer: but why not for the other 2 Mosfets?
The pic attached does show (in upper trace) the input signal found on Gate and (in lower trace) the corresponding Drain signal - ALL STABLE - and self explaining (ground level for upper trace is 1 div over the screen centre, zero level for lower trace is 1 div over the screen bottom). Main freq is 22.22KHz, smaller sinus freq are about 200KHz.
Roberto
Roberto,
on all transformer secondaries insert one lossy ferrite bead in series to the gate, and see what effect that has?
-OR-
You might also connect a resistor between gates and sources of X Ohms to lower Q of transformer windings. In other words, in parallel with the secondary, but directly at the FET with very short leads or use SMD chip.
The pulse transformers may or may not be self-shielding. The only self-shielding transformers that I know are pot cores.
Regards, Earl
@Earl,
Thanks, of course I did not put beads as the pulse XFM used are pot-cores. The funny thing is that only one of the absolutely equal other two does show said effect.
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on January 17, 2008, 06:19:29 AM
@Earl,
Thanks, of course I did not put beads as the pulse XFM used are pot-cores. The funny thing is that only one of the absolutely equal other two does show said effect.
Roberto
Roberto,
try anyway, even with pot cores, to put a resistor on all three between gate and source to load down the gate impedance and transformer secondary. Try various resistor values.
Obviously, exactly equal is not, there is a little difference somewhere.
Regards, Earl
@Earl,
OK I did it: generally a 10KOhm is ok ...and I saw also that sometime they put a 22 Ohm in series with secondary...to lower the coil Q & limiting the max current (into the Mosfet's Gate @ said freq)?
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on January 17, 2008, 06:42:56 AM
@Earl,
OK I did it: generally a 10KOhm is ok ...and I saw also that sometime they put a 22 Ohm in series with secondary...to lower the coil Q & limiting the max current (into the Mosfet's Gate @ said freq)?
Roberto
Roberto,
In my opinion with transformer coupling, it is better NOT to put a series resistor between transformer and gate. I would prefer 10k or other value from gate to source.
Does 3 times 10k from gate to source make all 3 FETs act the same way with no differences now ?
Regards, Earl
Earl,
sorry it has been a typo: I wanted to write 'I will do it' (when home). Now it's impossible
Roberto
@Roberto
Good luck with your trials with both ECD and TPU. May be an interesting idea.
I found this circuit on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.ca/8000V-High-Voltage-DC-Electronic-Electric-Generator_W0QQitemZ180205242697QQihZ008QQcategoryZ97200QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If you can look at it and say if you think it is good to try. It is 8000vdc so it is well well below my current 100kvdc device. I still want to find one at around 1000 vdc but have not found anything yet.
Why I am waiting to build is simply because I want to see this thing working in my mind first and right now, I cannot see it. So I am going to make a few small devices like the TPU design just to see some effects before making the actual build.
Quote from: BEP on January 16, 2008, 08:00:57 AM
Hmmm...
3 cannons or 3 sequencial accelerator rings like found in old Trinitrons?
This would be more like another project - The BFG2000 ;D
In the previous tube schem I see that the control coils are at one end of the collectors. In Roberto's last pic I see the controls in the center. In reference to the BFG, I have two controls per collector segment. Each pair will be fired in opposite directions from the center outward. 3 layers = 9 segments = 18 controls. Look!? It's an ECD. No. It's a TPU. No. It's a stun gun? Well it's just another version of Tesla's Ionizer. Wrap it, fire it, connect it any way you want. They can all be dangerous.
Way to go guys! ;)
@Roberto,
Put a piece of tape in front of your mike and camera. There is an CRSS feeder running. Happened to me. I just spent 2 1/2 days scrubbing malware off.
If you want to go further then get an open window and a bullet. That will insure the pc doesn't come back inside the house once you throw it out... ;D
--giantkiller.
Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but in the topic "Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??" on the mechanical-setups - forum, there is a video shown, which perhaps shows us what we try to catch up with our rotating-magnetfield in our TPUs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4B_Lj1JM6g
"Natural Harmonic Magnetic Communication Principles..."
sorry again for ot.
kind regards
@GK,
THANKS for the suggestions about mike & camera! You know: I thought about this some time ag?!!
About the control-coil on my last pic: pay attention... as the dranwig may be misleading as I draw them in the middle of the rings only for not clobbering the schematic (already full of wiring...). Actually they are spreaded all along the circumference as depicted on 3StackTPU picture posted earlier in this thread.
Roberto
@Roberto
I found this guy on ebay that makes Tesla coils that I think I will order one of 4" x 24" just to do some other HV tests. But what caught my eye was the text description that I am copying here;
*****************************
The Ultimate 4 inch clear acrylic form, wrapped with 25 AWG Hi Temp 200C wire. It doesn't get any better than this one. 1000 turns, wrapped 20 inches on a 24 inch X 4 inch form. 1050 feet, with a resonant frequency of about 242 Khz @ 1/4 wave. Further Sealed with several coats of Polyurethane. It is a steady tension wound coil with no gaps, kinks or flaws.
******************************
As shown, the resonant frequency of this rather big air coil is about 242Khz, about the same resonant frequency you are working with. Do you think there could be a relationship between this Tesla coil and the TPU, but how can a huge coil and a small TPU have the same resonant range?
@Ronotte
While your scope shots tell me you have the 'kind' of resonance I talk about (the 2 or three sines after the pulse) like most I am interested in eliminating all unexpected causes. To that end I have a question: Do you think it is possible this 22.222kHz may be the result of an LC tank created with the secondary winding of the isolation transformer?
I don't have your exact type of transformer but I have been experimenting with a 1:1 isolation transformer (iron core but low grade unshielded). The secondary plus a low value capacitor resonate easily in the 25 kHz range. Since your collectors are Mobius the coil capacitance can be extremely high with almost no inductance....... This may start another flame war but we may be looking at 'reductance'. Also another term not generally found in the books.
>>EDIT:
The reason for my wondering about reductance is I'm finding it is possible to vary the resonance of a spiral wound collector by changing the amplitude duty-cycle and PRF of the perpendicular wound control coil. This using the current dip method of locating resonance.
<<
@Frederick2k1
Yes. This man has it together on magnetics. If he ever explains what is going on and how to do it.... Well, I hope he succeeds.
Test.
There are unfortunately a few posts lost as there was some kind of bug,
so one could not post on page 19 of this thread.
Please repost your postings, which are now deleted.
Many thanks.
Quote from: hartiberlin on January 21, 2008, 10:23:27 AM
Test.
Please repost your postings, which are now deleted.
NO , my time here is OVER!!!!
Happy crushing database erorr site report to your freaking admin everybody!!!!
Ciao.
Hi Marco,
this is probably an error that is related to the forum software still having a few bugs.
Also I did not yet find a solution to this error,also not yet at the SMF forum programmer website. Regards, Stefan.
Hello all,
my last post dissapeared. I will try to explain again what Im doing.
I wound a 9 turns collector with lamp wire. Dimensions well known: inner diameter 4", outer diameter 6".
I looked at my coil and got an idea: why not try to pulse just 1 strand of my lamp wire and on the other strand to connect a 100W bulb. So I did it.
On 1 strand the pulses and the +12V from the power supply and on the other strand a bulb and in paralel a 47nF/1kV capacitor. Without any control coils!!
I used just 1 frequency. The highest frequency range from my oscillator = 100 - 300kHz.
At the frequency of 245kHz I had a "success". I saw little sinuses forming from the kicks and then I saw the voltage/current rising. Of course, the light was getting better and better. A just little move of my frequency and the voltage rised to 40 - 60V and the current to 2 - 4A. At this values the bulb lighted at 100W. I also had a vibration of the signals on my scope at 5 - 10 Hz.
Then, yesterday I builded another 9 turn coil, the same as described and connected this 2 coils together.
As I have only 2 MOSFETs (others blown), I pulsed 1 coil with 1 frequency (range 1 - 10kHz) and the other coil with the frequency range 10 - 100kHz.
At some point I got the same "success". This time only the current rised to an unknown level but the voltage was stable = 12V. I didnt had the well known vibration of 5 - 10 Hz this time.
As I lost in the last few months a lot of MOSFETs ( over 50, no typo!!) I decided finally to build TUBE OSCILLATORS because I see NO CHANCE to continue in my research.
My power supply for the TUBES is reday.
Otto
Quote from: otto on January 22, 2008, 07:57:25 AM
Then, yesterday I builded another 9 turn coil, the same as described and connected this 2 coils together.
As I have only 2 MOSFETs (others blown), I pulsed 1 coil with 1 frequency (range 1 - 10kHz) and the other coil with the frequency range 10 - 100kHz.
Otto
Otto, I do not understand "connected together" ?
Do you mean physically next to each other - or do you mean a galvanic connection ?
I think you have two 2-conductor wire coils of 9 turns each.
- On 1 conductor of coil 1, you have +12V pulsed with FET at f1.
On 1 conductor of coil 2, you have +12V pulsed with FET at f2.
You have 2 output coils, independent and no galvanic connection.
It would be possible to connect these two output coils in parallel or in series - or leave them independent.
Do these two output coils have the same scope signal - or - do they have different waveforms?
Is this simply a HF transformer converting primary energy to secondary energy ? Or is there something special with this configuration?
Regards, Earl
QuoteI wound a 9 turns collector with lamp wire. Dimensions well known: inner diameter 4", outer diameter 6".
I looked at my coil and got an idea: why not try to pulse just 1 strand of my lamp wire and on the other strand to connect a 100W bulb. So I did it.
On 1 strand the pulses and the +12V from the power supply and on the other strand a bulb and in paralel a 47nF/1kV capacitor. Without any control coils!!
I used just 1 frequency. The highest frequency range from my oscillator = 100 - 300kHz.
At the frequency of 245kHz I had a "success". I saw little sinuses forming from the kicks and then I saw the voltage/current rising. Of course, the light was getting better and better. A just little move of my frequency and the voltage rised to 40 - 60V and the current to 2 - 4A. At this values the bulb lighted at 100W. I also had a vibration of the signals on my scope at 5 - 10 Hz.
Congratulations Otto, I like the 5-10 Hz vibrations.Ã,Â
It sounds like you don't even use the main collector wire, but only the two strands of the speaker cable.Ã, keep up the good work.
EM
P.S. I have an idea how you connected it based on your description, however if you can draw something up it would be great.
Quote from: otto on January 22, 2008, 07:57:25 AM
I wound a 9 turns collector with lamp wire. Dimensions well known: inner diameter 4", outer diameter 6".
I looked at my coil and got an idea: why not try to pulse just 1 strand of my lamp wire and on the other strand to connect a 100W bulb. So I did it.
On 1 strand the pulses and the +12V from the power supply and on the other strand a bulb and in paralel a 47nF/1kV capacitor. Without any control coils!!
I used just 1 frequency. The highest frequency range from my oscillator = 100 - 300kHz.
At the frequency of 245kHz I had a "success". I saw little sinuses forming from the kicks and then I saw the voltage/current rising. Of course, the light was getting better and better. A just little move of my frequency and the voltage rised to 40 - 60V and the current to 2 - 4A. At this values the bulb lighted at 100W. I also had a vibration of the signals on my scope at 5 - 10 Hz.
Then, yesterday I builded another 9 turn coil, the same as described and connected this 2 coils together.
As I have only 2 MOSFETs (others blown), I pulsed 1 coil with 1 frequency (range 1 - 10kHz) and the other coil with the frequency range 10 - 100kHz.
At some point I got the same "success". This time only the current rised to an unknown level but the voltage was stable = 12V. I didnt had the well known vibration of 5 - 10 Hz this time.
Otto,
is this what you are doing?
thanks for the diagram Earl,Ã, I just re-read otto's posting and I see what he is saying now.
Here's my interpretation.Ã, I previously thought he was putting the speaker wire around the collector, but that's not correct, the speaker wire is the collector. (and there are no control coils)
EM
Hi EM,
seems to be right drawn your circuit.
It seems Otto is using some kind of parallel wire coils resonanz transformer.
Otto, you can save your MOSFETs if you use a cap in parallel with the
coil you are driving with your MOSFET or use a freewheel diode in parallel
with the drive coil...
Just don?t let the spikes come back to your MOSFETs...
Otto, do you now have a videocam or a digital camera, so you could
at least post a few pictures or a video ?
What was your input power from your power supply,
when the 100 Watt bulb was running ?
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan,Ã,Â
he mentionsÃ, 40 -60 Volts andÃ, 2-4 Amps.
So worst case would be 60 x 4 = 240 watts
and the lowest value would beÃ, 40 x 2 = 80 watts
So it's between 240 and 80 watts.
I doubt it's OU, but it's something on the right path. What intrigues me is why does the voltage supply rise and the current increase. doesn't the supply have controls to limit current if the voltage rises? I don't own a fancy power supply so I can't answer those questions.
EM
In the missing post Otto said he connected his Rodin coil.
I don't know if that is still the case.
Hello all,
@Earl
my "output" strands with the bulb connected are in paralel connected.
If I would connect my "input" coils with the pulses in a Mobius way, the cap should have a lower value because when a 2 strand wire is connected in the Mobius way the capacitance of such a wire is dramatically INCREASED!!
Its worth a try.
@EM
thanks, its the right drawing.
The cap in paralel: first I used a 100nF/400V cap but it was not good. This cap was soooo hot that I decided to use a 47nF/1kV cap and it was OK.
This 5 - 10Hz vibrations I see on my scope. 7,8 Hz vibrations?? Yes, I think so.
But only with the 245kHz. The other 2 frequencies that we have to use just increases the sine waves that I see at the 245kHz.
My power supply is a profi made with an 60V/5A output. The current can be regulated but Im using the maximal 5A. Its not OU but something with this setup is hmmm....strange. Why this 245kHz?? Why are sine waves formed? Little sine waves?
@Stefan
I used 12V from my power supply. The current was 1,3A, or so. When I tuned my frequency nearer to the 245kHz I saw that the voltage/current rised more and more. Then, near 245kHz, the voltage rised to 40 - 60V and the current to 2 - 4A. I managed to have my frequency stable and the bulb was almost at full brightness. But after maybe 20 - 30 seconds the effect dissapeares. Like I charged something very fast and then I have a slow discharge. Maybe my cap is discharging? With a bigger cap I had the same effect.
It can happen that this effect doesnt start so I rised the voltage from my power supply to 14V and then the effect started again.
Yes, a picture will be fine.
As I wanted to control this beast I wound a control coil with 57 turns all around the collector and pulsed this control with an unknown frequency. I didnt connect the control to the power supply!! It worked. Not sooo good but..Im learning.
The main problem is when I have to use all my 3 frequencies. I found NO WAY to control the beast. Blowing my MOSFETs is normal. This is the main reason for building tube oscillators because MOSFETs are cheap but when you blow in 1 day 2 of them then you have to decide: to buy every few days a lot of MOSFETs or to build tube oscillators. So Im building tube oscillators.
@AM
Yes, I made the same with Rodin coil collectors. Fine and nice but its not the time to play with such collectors. They are dangerous and Im not able to control them. I hope that with tubes ( they dont blow??? ) I can continue to have fun. With MOSFETs, no way anymore.
Otto
I now doubt coaxial cable has anything to do with a TPU but you can see a pronounced version of this effect by using coax.
The best way I've found is using cheap TV coax that has a copper coated steel center conductor and a continuous foil shield. Use the shield as the primary and the center conductor as the secondary. Or the reverse. Even more interesting is running two opposing signals into the primary.
The coax thing was a learning experience for me and the results were the same as Otto's even with 245kHz.
@Otto,
I understand the losses on MOSFETs. I've also learned that @ronotte has the best fix for that - opto or transformer isolation between the MOSFET gates and the mains and a current limiting resistor on the source lead. No amount of freewheeling diodes and caps will stop the failures at that point.
BEP
@ Otto,
I recently came across an old manual for an HP 200CD oscillator, and much to my surprise it was all TUBES. It has a range 5Hz to 600KHz sine wave. They sell relatively cheap on eBay. Just thought this might be helpful, as you said you were having difficulties building Tube oscillators from scratch . I'll post the schematic later.
Cheers,
Julian
@Earl,
About self-sustaining TPU V10-7 operation:
I equipped all the 3 power Mosfets with Gate-to-Source 10 KOhm resistors: NO WAY to stop auto-oscillations (once triggered) that now happens to be at about 100KHz with all 3 mosfets contributing.
The weird thing is that even if the consumpcion is only 1.3 A at 30V (PS)...the 3 heath-sinks gets soon hot. If I try the same PS consumpcion but actually 'driving' the beast with 3 harmonic freqs...well the heath sinks stay cool......
One possible explanation is that when I drive it is with 2 microsec pulses while in auto-sustaining mode it does operate also in linear region (?)...is it possible?
Remember that in both cases the mosfets do operate in avalanche mode and do light 60W lamp even if at different level as while in narrow pulse mode to obtain the same light it's necessary to operate at 40-60V.
Roberto
@otto
I have followed your posts on many threads and think your knowledge of tubes (valves uk) and connecting these to your devices may be increased by a read of the ARRL or the RSGB radio communication manuals. I think you may gleam a lot of information from these as I have over the years. It will teach you all you need to know in easy to understand pages about coupling and resonance etc. I hope to give you more understanding of how radio works, so you can include this knowledge in your designs and maybe save yourself another full waste box of tubes or fets lol!!! I am also another ham radio guy and built my first radio at 9 years old then at 12 went on to transmitters. love electronics and love your circuit ides too. I have not read enough information yet on TPU technology from this site but I have a lot of ideas on conventional theory for dissolvig to free energy as yourself. May the force be with you!!! will join in more soon just need more research on ..........??
ENJOY LIFE FOR ONE DAY WE WILL FREE THE WORLD.
made this up, sounds true lol!!!
Hello all,
@szaxx
it was 35 years ago when I learned everything about tubes, how they work, how to connect them, how...but then came the time to learn about the ICs and all the digital stuff and I learned this because its my job.
As I was all the time working on my TPUs I didnt had the time to refresh my memory but then there was a point when I saw that I didnt have a chance to continue in my TPU work and the solution was to sit on my ass and reread a lot of tubes stuff from my very old books. Be sure I did it!
Yesterday my 1. oscillator gave me signals. Something like square waves. My biggest problem is that I dont have caps in picofarads and all the parts needed for tube oscillators and I doubt that I can buy them here in my town. A few phone calls and I will know it. Yes, I can buy old radios but the price is 50 Euros for each and I need 3 of them. If I find them!!
I found this site for capacitors: http://www.oppermann-electronic.de. Maybe I can buy my caps from them??
For 50 euros I can buy everything needed for my oscillators. As you can see, used old radios are expensive here.
Otto
Hi Roberto,
just want to quickly let you know what I am doing.
As I told you, I want to wind my own version based on the 3stack.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
I have done some calculations. In fact I started to wind it.
But now I am getting more and more convinced, that one important factor is that
the collectors should be from litz wire, i.e. 2 parallel conductors (aka lamp wire) each made from "real litz".
Others have pointed it out, and also you yourself told me so.
This wire must be braided the same way a rope is, so that the magnetic fields around the individual strands get partially auto-canceled, so that the resistance/impedance/CEMF of the collector turns diminishes.
If this is achieved, all the usual calculations for copper coils become irrelevantly as the formulas are based on normal wire geometry, I think. Namely the balance between the (di-)electric and the magnetic component of such a braided conductor becomes different i.e. we can achieve a weaker magnetic field per unit of current or - when seen the other way round - more current without this silly, impeding, magnetic field.
So I think that braiding strands is a way to shift the behavior of copper towards that of a supra-conductor.
After all EEs used braided wire for antennas because they could get more signal strength (power) out than with normal wire.
Watching Dr. Stiffler's experiments, it is obvious that the characteristics of a coil from braided wire (his 'antenna coil') is a major factor.
I think he is presently concentrating on improving his exciter and especially the geometry of the transmitter element, but he may start working on strengthening the pickup/collector part soon, who knows.
So I will have to undo the ring I have prepared and first organize some wire, which I think will make good collectors.
Hi Gustav22,
I do confirm that Litz wire (at least with 45 isolated and roped thin wires...better if 450 thin wires....) are far superior than stranded non-isolated electrical wire. So do use Litz..if you find it!
In the past I wired a TPU using for collector both electrical stranded wire and Litz wire....just to see the difference: Litz always far superior!!! So I thoght to use the much cheaper standard wire for all the tests while reserving the Litz once found a proper solution...
GOOD LUCK for your TPU.
For my side yesterday I did lot of tests with TPU V10-7 trying many sets of 3 freqs and various other tricks. The best output is in following pic taken
on load before the rectifying station.
You can see that it is
RELEVANT as all the scope's screen is full (about 400V ptp, all in first quadrant) of
mostly formed sinusoidal waveform ,
slowly pulsating at about 0.5 Hz and with peak power probably
exceeding 120W-150W and of course....
almost full superposition of the 3 freqs ;).
Input is with 3 freqs in 10-100KHz range and duty-cycle of about 5% (2microseconds wide pulses).
"The 3-Sisters appearing both on sinus main ramp-up and ramp-down are for the first time clearly seen"
The up-mentioned results,
UNIQUE OF THIS KIND I HAVE EVER SEEN, do prove that Dfro suggestions were
CORRECT indeed.
Roberto
Your scope shot is the best I've seen from anywhere. I see three pulses on the creation of the main rise and another three on the main fall. To me this indicates conter rotation or two directions.
This is the best example of 'three sisters' I've seen on this forum.
@Gustav22
By all means please confirm your own ideas. However, I have many wire antennas in use. None are made of woven wire because the interleaving hinders performance at the very low frequencies. The only time it works well is when it is not a weave like a rope but straight as in well combed hair. This is true for transmission line (twin-lead) or antenna elements. The most noticeable difference is the noise level. Whistlers do much better with straight wire.
This is my guess for TPU setup.
I think about magnetic fields like spinning gears and pulley belts. So I arrange my field spins to mesh together just like a mechanical system of gears and pulleys do. So the power shaft can turn to properly transmit power.
Litz wire cores are my power output "shaft". Control coils are my "gears".
Magnetic fields are my "pulleys and belts". Maybe torsion fields are spinning too just like they do around heavy flywheels?
Each of the three harmonic control frequencies provide a resonant impulse to the system just enough to keep the central, the top&bottom, and the outer magnetic fields spinning.
You all are welcome to copy, use or piggy-back off these ideas as you desire. I have no care at all for any credit.
Merkhava
Hi BEP
Quote from: BEP on January 28, 2008, 07:46:25 AM
@Gustav22
By all means please confirm your own ideas. However, I have many wire antennas in use. None are made of woven wire because the interleaving hinders performance at the very low frequencies. The only time it works well is when it is not a weave like a rope but straight as in well combed hair. This is true for transmission line (twin-lead) or antenna elements. The most noticeable difference is the noise level. Whistlers do much better with straight wire.
I accept what you say, especially when viewing the collector as a normal antenna to pick up normal EM signals as the secondary of a transformer does.
But I think there is an additional effect at work.It is difficult to pin it down, but it has to do with means to alter self induction which people touch on here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3913.msg72773.html#msg72773
(and following postings)
This effect may possibly be used as described here:
http://www.geocities.com/nayado/
(i.e. by placing such a coil in an electro statically charged area)
I think a similar effect - i.e. bringing down self induction - can be achieved by braiding wire strands.
Then place the resulting conductor in an electrostatic field (as the collector turns are placed in the TPU).
OK, electrostatic is the wrong wording, since the field in the control coil (i.e. where the TPU collector is positioned) is not static ...
I obviously have difficulties ...
I do not have a concise understanding of this yet, but will let you know when I do.
;-)
@ dfro, Otto,
//T H A N K S
Roberto
Hello all,
@Roberto
whats going on?
Otto
@Otto,
I'm feeling happy! as I'm seeing what I dreamed to see since a lot of time.
Do join me asap.
Roberto
Hello to all gentlemen here,
would you finally build the FU...NG tube oscillators???
Sorry but I said that I dont want to be nice.
Otto
@ronotte,
the suspense is killing me!! SHOW ME THE POWER!!!! quick before the mib get there, ;D
lol
sam
ps: can't wait to see your latest experiments.
Hi all,
please be patience as I'm setting-up some footage in order to show clearly.....the power?.....before the mib get interested LOL.
Roberto
Hi all,
Enjoy it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po3biz9UtrE
..it's a quick & dirty footage and I apologize for quality but it's enought to appreciate the TPU V10-7.
Do look with attention to last scope's frames where the signal output, taken on lamp but before the rectifyer stage, does show the full 3 waves multiple superpositions on both leading & trailing sinus edges (400V ptp amplitude)!! I remember to all that the inputs are 3 frequencies in the form of 40V/1-2microseconds width pulses; frequencies used may be desumed directly from the screen!!
Please be informed that during following tests the 230V/60W lamp burned and actually has been replaced by a 150W/230V one which can be now full lighted.
Please be informed anyway that --- for the moment NO OU is claimed -----
Roberto
Roberto,
very good experimentation and tenacity. Congratulations.
Do you understand why the very slow oscillation in output power ?
I assume that if you reduce scope intensity and slow the horizontal trace very slow, you will also observe this on the scope.
Can you attach some permanent magnets, say on a plastic sheet, in a circle of the same diameter as your TPU.
Starting at large distance above the TPU, SLOWLY start descending closer to the TPU and see what happens.
Then repeat, but with sheet and magnets turned 180 degrees so they have opposite magnetic polarity. Again, starting at large distance above the TPU, SLOWLY start descending closer to the TPU and see what happens.
What this does is introduce an orthogonal B field that you can vary in strength. Be careful, if you start to have an energy avalanche, remove B field immediately.
I am interested in seeing your next PDF Engineering Report showing your device exactly, the test setup, results of both AC out and rectified DC output measurements.
All the best, Earl
Earl,
as always you are concrete and pertinent (your experience does show...): thanks for your comments.
"why the very slow oscillation in output power ?"
Well in the first I thought them out of a 'non perfect synchronism' between the 3 freqs, but now I'm not so sure, why?......the point is that the 3 freqs for themselves are NOT SYNCHED, they are automatically put, let say, in synchronism by the processes actually running into the 3 rings: it seems LIKE they get synchronized...HOW?: I don't know.
What is clear to me is that them ARE PERFECTLY SYNCHED as the scope synchronism is triggered with extreme precision. I mean that if I change less than 1 Hz one of the 3 freqs NO WAY TO SYNCH the scope! You know what I mean...very, very difficult to force a professional analog TEK scope even if in 'manual trigger' to get in synch with random signals......that's also one of the reasons why it's so difficult for guys without prof equipment to deal with this kind of devices. To come back to your question my feeling is that sayd effect is not due to freq sliding and consequential less waves superposition....so what else?...I'll wait for any contribution better if with practical way of verification on the spot!
"I assume that if you reduce scope intensity and slow the horizontal trace very slow, you will also observe this on the scope"
OK of course I already did it and it does show just what I sayd.
"Can you attach some permanent magnets...."
That's interesting and I'll manage to make that test...consider that I'm taking it slow because I don't want to trigger a run-away.
Last question:
YES as always I'm preparing an engineering report that I'll share with all , so work-is-in-progress.
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
Results look good!
Is the input power to drive the 60W lamp = 1.3A x 30V = 39 watts?
Can you show a photo of the coils.
Is the output/collector coil at 90 degrees to input coils to rule out mutual coupling?
Regards
Rob
@Rob,
thanks for your encouragement.
As I sayd for the moment NO OU....but I'm near: What is still needed is to enhance the various processes, for example use narrower pulses: actually my electronics & wirings & stray capacitances do not allow the use of narrower pulses ( now 1 - 2 microseconds) so I will have to re-think the various possibilities.....
YES the architecture used is that suggested in the 3StackTPU by dfro: you can find in this thread all the details (90 degrees coils & mobiuses....included of course). The practical implementation has been done by Otto as also posted in this thread.
I strongly suggest you to replicate this project as it worths the needed time...
Roberto
@Roberto
Again good work indeed. I am thinking that if the output electricity is taking the path of least resistance, it will fill up the capacitor before it fully lights the cold bulb. I am wondering as the bulb lights up, does the resistance of the bulb become lower so then the capacitor starts to discharge faster until it gets to a lower level, then it fills up again. This may be why the bulb is going at a 6-10hz cycle. Do your have any other output capacitor (smaller) to see if this will vary that result.
Again just the best right now, and the most important thing is this result seems to be directly under your control and not a random event, which for this stage is a major success.
Hi,
as far as I understand Ronotte is currently trying to improve the behavior of his CCs, so that all 3 of them auto-resonate at the desired harmonic frequencies.
In the meantime I am thinking about the behavior of the collector. As Otto has measured in a friend's lab, the 2 parallel conductors A and B of the collector's lamp wire (what Otto calls the 'mobius') have capacitance, i.e. they behave like 2 plates of a capacitor. This capacitor seems to get charged up by the 90? induction.
I think it is noteworthy, that none these 2 strands of th collector is grounded.
So this strange capacitor can retain it's charge and push it through the load in certain intervals, creating the characteristic frequency of Ronotte's output signal.
If one compares this to the L and N strands of our normal 220 V electricity supply lines (Europe), one realizes that the N is usually grounded. This prevents capacitance in our normal transmission lines, because one of the "capacitor plates" is connected to earth ground and thus can never get charge up. So the charging effect - which we desire in the TPU's collector - is made impossible in the normal power transmission lines of our electricity grid.
I was thinking, that it might be a good idea to strengthen the capacitance in the collector windings and was looking for a way to do this. I think it can be done, if each strand (A or B) is in close contact with a maximum of strands of the other kind, so that the collector does not just have 2 capacitor plates (strand A & B) but instead resembles a capacitor with lots of alternating plates.
Such as A-B-A-B-A...
(a bit liker in a bifilar coil).
I read some posts in other threads and then tried to wind an example for a collector, which hopefully meets this criterion (lots of alternating plates). In a 3stack one would obviously need 3 of them. Here is a pic:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.mediafire.com%2Fimgbnc.php%2F5820a9a643ba412a46eafa1628dd370e4g.jpg&hash=bf2900f8736dc9942896427dbc872cbc4acd60b8) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5bz2dcymfj4&thumb=4)
There is no hollow space or tube inside. It consists solely of lamp wire. (Yes, it should be done more neatly)
Maybe I will get a chance to visit my friend's lab again, then he can help me to test whether this makes a good collector, as I hope.
edit: also again braiding of the 2 lamp wire strands comes to mind as a possibility to augment inter-conductor-capacitance.
more edit (a completely different aspect):
Hi Roberto, I also noted:
The frequencies for a collector of 15" diameter are:
35 kHz, 70 kHz, and 245 kHz (1:2:7)
You use a collector of 5" diameter.
That is 1/3 of 15"
Now if the frequencies for a smaller TPU have to be proportionally faster, they can be calculated as follows:
35 kHz * 3 (because the circumference of your collector is 3 times smaller than a 15" collector) = 105 kHz
This corresponds to the number I read on the upper oscillator in your video
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ronotte
title: TPU V10-7
at 1 min:22 sec.
:-*
I gather you use:
15 kHz, 30 kHz and 105 kHz (1:2:7)
I think
105 kHz, 210 kHz, 735 kHz (1:2:7)
would be ideal, but I know this presents difficulties, because at such high frequencies the mosfets are too slow to achieve the short pulses (5% duty-cycle) which you use ....
But maybe you may want try these frequencies with a 50% duty-cycle.
and then the carnival edit(ion):
@SM
Hi sir,
I would like to ask you, whether you ever made a unit with 3 collector strands instead of only 2, to get a 3-phase output?
Hi Gustav22 and all,
I mostly agree with your calculations. In fact in my case, with 6" ring (5" medium diameter) the 105KHz is very good indeed. Some times ago I reached your same point about the 15" ring comparation... but it's still not practical to deal with such high freqs, on the other end I don't think that SM did use any.
I spent most of my time in saturday playing with the beast and I succeed into not burning any mosfet by just planning accurately the tests themselves and.....using the power supplies with extreme care.
Mainly I wanted to ascertain the freqs to use, lot of work in this sense and found many possible solutions: that's a problem...as it's still very, very difficult to make a choose. I also checked it again with CHORDs (base Major 4,5,6), this latter has been possible as not running with synched oscillators....so for the first time I've been able to get from a CHORD similar output to that obtained using standard harmonic relationships: very interesting as even if the 3 freqs are not timely correlated I do obtain as well pulse superposition!!!!. So this is a prove that what SM told has "...use harmonics or chords..." is defnitly true.
In the attached pics you can see: multiple pulses summation and single superposition detail. The amplitude in this case is low as the test as been done with PS set to only +15V.
@Earl,
I forgot to say that I did as well tests using 4.4MF (plyester cap) as levelling capacitor: the slow power pulsing still exists and it does not vary. Unfortunately at the moment I've no more high voltage caps so I can't say if using an higher capacity would have a different effect.
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
thank you for the update.
You say that you used the chord major, where the frequency ratios are
4 : 5 : 6 .
this is the same as
1 : 1,25 : 1,5
and same as
0,666 : 0,833 : 1
I just wanted to write this down here.
@Gustav22,
Yes it's so. The Major chord test has been run using as base frequency 35000Hz.
@all,
do you want to see what happen to output waveform while 60W lamp-load is connected?
Just have a look at the following pic (DSC_0086) which is self explanatory.
Note: the limiting is only on the positive side as for this test I connected only one diode. I did it of course also using a bridge rectifier and the limiting does appear on both sides.
Roberto
@all,
as requested by various guys I've annotated the already posted
MAIN WAVEFORM SHOWING THE FULL 3 SISTERS SUPERPOSITION ONTO THE OUTPUT WAVEFORM WHICH DRIVE THE LOAD At 400Vptp
Roberto
I have some awesome resonance from my new mini Tesla, check out the photos in Dr. Stifflers thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg75778.html#msg75778
EM
P.S.Ã, By the way, nice work there Roberto, 3 sisters and a lucky guyÃ, :)
the mini-tesla has it's own link now in the Tesla category: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4070.msg75778.html#msg75778
Hi Guys,
here you will find what I mean for ...TPU V10-7 POWER.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzAkUFUb_y0
Enjoy
EM: your miniTesla is AMAZING...may be I'll find a way to use it to trigger my TPU!
Roberto
@ronotte,
Have you checked for inner rotation with a compass when the lamp is fluctuating?
Have you place the lamp inside the TPU during operation?
Thanks,
Bep
Hi BEP,
always interesting hearing from you.
- No I don't see mag rotation or may be it's too high...
- Is there a rationale in putting the lamp inside the TPU?
TO ALL:
I DO CONFIRM THAT POWER FLUCTUATION DOES DEPEND STRICTLY ON THE SET OF FREQ IN USE: IT CAN DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY LEAVING THE LAMP NEAR IT'S MAX BRIGHTNESS - STEADY
Grat news are maturing - stay tuned -
Roberto
Hello Roberto,
Very good and interesting work. I enjoyed the scope shots of your combined waves. As I also enjoyed Jason's Video of combined waves, doubling, using a different method.
Watching this latest video, and your title of real power, the age old question comes up.
What is the output wattage, and what is the input wattage. I will quantify a "working" TPU as where output is greater than input. Until then, they are still interesting experiments to grow on, but not more than that. This in no wise is to take away from great dedication and very hard work.
This is my standard for anyone claiming a working TPU from now on. Others may have their own.
Warm regards, :)
Bruce
@Bruce,
do you think I did not know?........If you just have a look to my previous post you will see that I already DID it.....so no way to warn me again....nevertheless I thought interesting for all to see it (..not LEDs shininig..He He...).
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on February 07, 2008, 07:38:43 AM
- Is there a rationale in putting the lamp inside the TPU?
Yes, I sent an explanation via other channels.
Such ideas are fodder for the lurkers and knuckle-whackers ;D
I'll let you come to your own conclusions.
If there is no noticeable compass rotation the I should ask - Is there a compass deviation from the norm while in the center? Like pointing the wrong way or not wanting to find North at all or the needle not being level.
Bep
Hi Roberto,
great videos and great hard work done !
Congratulations.
But what do you mean "this is 30 Volts and this is 50 Volts" in your last youtube video ?
Is this the power supply voltage ?
How many amps are you drawing from your power supply during the light bulb is lighting up so bright ?
Many thanks. Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: ronotte on February 07, 2008, 09:48:57 AM
@Bruce,
do you think I did not know?........If you just have a look to my previous post you will see that I already DID it.....so no way to warn me again....nevertheless I thought interesting for all to see it (..not LEDs shininig..He He...).
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
I found your reference, and understand. No OU yet. You are getting close and I greatly admire your work.
Warm regards,
Bruce
I think he means by the messing around with it, it can range from nothing to overunity... i'm confused too.. :-\
EDIT: I get it, he can set power consumption to zero, yet the brightness stays the same. Thus find the correct frequencies then shut it off...
:)
Hello Harty,
thanks for your kind words....
The 30...50V are referred to actual Power Supply settings. I'm using a separate programmable PS to keep under strict control the V & I delivered to Power Mosfets (in order to preserve them from thermal run-away). The associated current is then anyway always limited to 3.5 A.
As you have seen the power in that condition is not steady but rather is pulsing: so is the current synked. As many time sayd there is still no OU but I've had an improvement from the previous tests using ECD of almost 3:1: it does mean that I can light the lamp at the same brightness using 1/3 of the current previusly used with ECD.
GREAT STEP TO CORRECT DIRECTION
Again the reason I posted the power clip is only to show the possibilities.....think that during that test the lamp FUSED...but no problem with Mosfets thanks to PS protection!!
Again think that about half of the dissipated power vanish in heathing the power Mosfet's Heat-sinks...even if I'm pulsing them at a very low duty-cycle: that's encouraging as I see groud for improvement.
So let us dream a little after a so long and stressed past time, just wonder what if I succeeded in ELIMINATING the Mosfets losses: there should be an OU of at least 1: 5.
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
you have hinted, that you already have an idea how to avoid the heating up of the mosfets.
I hope your idea will work.
Nevertheless I want to let you know my take on the heating problem:
Premise:
When the conversion in the TPU works, the three input signals somehow get coupled and transformed to create the 3sister-wave output.
Do you still use non-synchronized input signals?
If you still use non-synchronized input signals, the transformation of these signals into the 3sister-wave is probably only happening successfully, when all 3 input signals meet with the correct phase relationship - to each other and to the 3sister-wave output signal, which builds up in the collector and in the feedback- windings.
Also note, that the feedback windings are in a normal transformer relationship with the 3 CCs and constantly induce a signal into them.
The case of correct phase relationship between the signals fed into the CCs (coming from the mosfets) and the signal induced into the CCs by the feedback windings must be purely coincidental, no?
I think that if this phase relationship is not correct, the input energy is dissipated as heat in the mosfets, as it can not be transformed, because it "fights" against the signal from the feedback windings.
Maybe you will get much less heat and a much increased conversion factor, if you try with synchronized input signals with adjustable phase shift.
Or you can try to lock the phase(s) of the 3 oscillators to the output signal of the TPU.
Obviously I have no idea how to do such a thing.
In the end, with a closed loop, the feedback windings will force this phase-synchronization of output and input.
But at the moment the phase(s) of the input-signals are dictated by 3 INDEPENDENT oscillators. So all three input signals are out of phase
in respect to each other
and also out of phase
in respect to the signal from the feedback coils.
@Gustav22,
Yes the 3 Freqs till now are not synched. Well the auto-synchronism process seems to happen
when the 3 freq values are within +- 5 Hz: outside that window there's only current increase (in mosfets) without correspondent output increase -> hence there's only Heat production.
Quote from: Gustav22 on February 08, 2008, 06:46:14 AM
And if the phase relationship is not correct, the input energy is dissipated as heat in the mosfets, as it can not be transformed (because it "fights" against the signal from the feedback windings).
Maybe you will get much less heat and a much increased conversion factor, if you try with synchronized input signals with adjustable phase shift.
I'm glad that you raised a new perspective on how-to explain the energy dissipated as heat (In mosfet heat sink-- not coils). I've to think about that possibility. For sure the easiest way to prove it is just to put the 3 freqs in perfect sinchronism and observe the results! This could be done by simply wiring a 555 followed by a chain of dividers :2, :5 and :7 (a far more sophisticated 'DDS swiss-knife' to play with synchronism, phase, etc is in it's developing stage). The only reason why I haven't already did it is that the current setup allows for Chords testings.
Quote from: Gustav22 on February 08, 2008, 06:46:14 AM
If you still use non-synchronized input signals, the transformation of the input signals into the 3sister-wave is probably only happening successfully, when the input signals meet with the correct phase relationship - to each other
Why sayd process take-on is frankly unknown as I did nothing to promote it externally......I never observed nor designed such a process!
Quote from: Gustav22 on February 08, 2008, 06:46:14 AM
The case of correct phase relationship between the signal coming from the mosfets and the signal in the CCs (induced by the feedback windings) must be purely coincidental, no?
Of course I don't think tha's purely coincidental!
Roberto
Quote from: ronotte on February 08, 2008, 07:51:23 AM
How about your unit? ...is it completed?
:o
Magari
But I have to tell you that it is very bad style to expose the weaknesses of your friends before the whole internet.
;)
Seriously: "I am getting closer".
:D
@Roberto
Good work as usual. I am curious, as may be others, to know the relationship between the power supplied to the mosfets, to the actual power applied to the TPU. Let's say you are providing a combined power of 150 watts to the mosfets, what is the actual wattage supplied to the TPU? Would measuring this be dangerous for a meter connected directly to the mosfet outputs. Maybe with a sniffer coil? (I'm guessing.) But if this was known and output of TPU was known, you could then have the exact performance of the TPU itself like a super efficient step up transformer or even better. This would be important to know if looking afterwards to make any potential modifications on the TPU and having a standard way of measuring the TPU performance regardless of the power supplied to the mosfets.
Also, is it possible to supply pulsed dc to actually power the mosfets. Maybe a pulsing DC into the mosfets would keep the heat down while still maintaining good mosfet performance. Also by pulsing the dc, there may be a way to recaptured power at every off pulse, increasing the efficiency of the main power supply.
Hello Wattsup,
about power balance as you have sayd it's not so easy as:
- thinghs change as soon as you move a bit one of the freqs,
- thinghs change if you vary the input pulses duty cycles,
- thinghs change if you vary DC amplitude to mosfets,
- thinghs change if you vary mosfet driver amplitude & shape,
- etc, etc
(note: all is actually more difficult as if you change a parameter...may be all the other are as well affected..)
So what I can tell safely is that the impression is, given to have all the above points optimized (..it's not so...), that the power on light is still less than that provided by the PS (but not far as in ECD case) ........remember that now about half of PS power goes anyway to mosfet's heat-sinks rather than on coils.......
Please take note that a full documentation on '2nd session test - full' will be shortly available on YouTube: don't miss it! There you will find many hints on PS voltage effect: you will see that it's unlinear.
So major efforts is now in optimizing the mosfet circuitry in order to firstly decrease the energy losses...than the synchronism implications raised by Wattsup may be well worth a try!
"Pulsing VDC to power Mosfet" : GOOD: I've to think how?
Any ulterior suggestion are really wellcame.
DO IT GUYS!!!!!!! don't loose your precious time with zfdsytebnrfh!fdkgrlg jhfhgf
Regards to all
Roberto
I have one suggestion; I'm sure it's been said before, but it doesn't hurt to mention it again:
Use a battery, not a power supply! That way you can be sure that there are no odd signals coupling back into your power supply and increasing power output without your knowledge. I do this all the time; I've got a large 12V battery I keep on my bench for these kinds of experiments. ;)
Eldarion
*Again think that about half of the dissipated power vanish in heathing the power Mosfet's Heat-sinks...even"
If the heat-sinks are inside into the coil you can have this effect:
http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/02/08/induction-heatingmagical-non-contact-heat/
Marzio
Roberto has uploaded his new video at:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y6kzqVSk8tc
Well done Roberto,
nice equipment.
What is the Wattage of the bulb ?
Could you also everytime tell us, how many amps
you are drawing from the power supply ?
Voltage alone does not say much.
Now,how big is the heat at the MOSFETS ?
It seems you have the phasing of a musical chord.
Remember, if you ever have played music yourself,
if you hit on a keyboard a 3 tone chord and
have the amplifier set shortly before distortion you
always get into distortion when the right phasing occurs
as the chord then raises the amplitide and this distorts
the amplifier input....
SO you have the same effect...
Now you need to just sync the 3 frequencies to get the
highest brightness of the bulb all the time...
Do you see yet any power amplification ?
Do you already have any feedback coils in the design ?
Maybe you can post the circuit schematic, so we can learn from it ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: wings on February 08, 2008, 04:27:23 PM
*Again think that about half of the dissipated power vanish in heathing the power Mosfet's Heat-sinks...even"
If the heat-sinks are inside into the coil you can have this effect:
http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/02/08/induction-heatingmagical-non-contact-heat/
Marzio
Yes, Roberto is probably wasting much energy in heating his metals like heat sinks
and MOSFETS metals via eddy currents...
Roberto, maybe you can check into this ?
Many thanks for this hint.
Now I know, how to get red glowing graphite rods without needing them to
fire up for electron emission, but that is completely another idea..not related to the TPU.
@mosfeteers
Question about the heat.
Why do mosfets heat up? Does the heat increase when you increase the frequency? I mean anything moving that fast will generate heat just by any internal movement in itself.
So what about this.
Let's say you wanted 999,999 hertz.
Will one mosfet generating 999,999 produce more heat then three mosfets that generate 333,333 each but offset from each other by .000001 of a hertz so you still get the 999,999 punch.
@marco
My dad had several of those exact tube cases full, tube tester, degaussing coil and all. Those were the days.
@eldarion
I think Roberto is already using isolated transformers to keep any flyback away from the power supply.
@Roberto
Quote
DO IT GUYS!!!!!!! don't loose your precious time with zfdsytebnrfh!fdkgrlg jhfhgf
Unquote
What do all those letters at the end of your sentence mean? lol. Just joking. I understand what you mean when you say "precious time", because it is. The younger ones don't know this yet.
I am happy you used the word "unlinear" as being a basis of your design goals. This gives you more control over the process hence it leaves less to chance.
You know I am not afraid to build things, but I know I do not have the EE knowledge or all the equipment to do the controls, etc. I have to be a realist. Right now I am concentrating on Erfinders Challenge (EC) and it is very very interesting to see all the different results with changing of components. Plus it is perfect for my EE (level 0). I have been working with motors, gears, relays and transformers always so this is just right. I am learning more now and also on how to better use my old scope.
You, otto, gk and others are the real modern day Teslas, doing the crazy hair raising stuff. What I can do is build a new TPU with some changes to your current build that I have been wondering about, and send it to you or anyone else closer to do the standard trials. I do not mind building even more variations, but my EE level is too low to appreciate the circuits.
Everything will fall into place as it should, by all intents. Some are looking at the small volts required to start a TPU, you and your valiant counterparts are working on using those volts to shape the 3 sisters, or two daughters, or one mother-in-law, lol, and there may be someone else required to build the loop. This is all part of it.
Granted, if there are any EEers out there that need something to do, THIS IS IT!!!!! AND NOW'S THE TIME............ Please sign in. After only two weeks of TPU boot camp you'll be ready to go to the front lines.
But let's just think for a moment. If one, two or three guys would concentrate on making the builds and sending them to a central location for testing, this would save the central EEer build time that could be better used to learn how to tame the beast. The central tester would ensure commonality in testing procedures. The builders would be responsible for building and documenting the build process, wire gauges, turns, dimensions, ohms and other needed general measurements, etc. We have to team up because guys like you that can both build and control are rare. I am sure there are more people here willing to help as they can and this intent and untapped resource could be used for the good of all.
Let me know what I can do and I will.
OK enough said. For now, back to the EC.
Hi Otto,
how are you? Are you still working on your tube amp or is it already running?
I have finished to wind my 3stack unit and I hope I will get a chance to take it to my friend in R to test it as soon as possible.
I have wound all 3 CCs with equal mass and
again the feedback coils with equal mass as the 3 CCs.
So it will be interesting to investigate, whether this will have any positive effect or whether it is "just for the cat".
:)
Bitte sag mal irgendwas, damit wir wissen, dass bei Dir alles ok ist.
Hello all,
@Gustav22
Im totally frustrated. Im looking for oridinary capacitors in picofarad at 400V or more. NO WAY to buy them here.
Then I found a company in Germany, they have the caps, asked if they would deliver me the caps, answer, no problem, I ordered them and now they dont want to send me the price!!! HA!! Thats nice. My friend wants also to build this oscillators....he is also f...d off....
This German company is selling also air capacitors like in the old radios. It seems that I have to buy old radios, if I can find them.
What youre doing is just fine but you forgot "dfros" post: HIGH VOLTAGE PULSES!!!
Im talking about another level of our work.
Otto
@Otto
Hello!!!
NO PROBLEM TO FIND HV CAPS: JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU NEED!
I'll sheep them to you.
....just the same...no problems to obtain high voltage pulses without using ..valves!!!!!...I've just to wait for ordered parts.....but I'm not so sure I need them!!!
All the best from
Roberto
@Wattsup,
Well I thank you so much for your words but eventually you will discover, like I did some time ago, that NOBODY does want to team so you are left alone with your problems: so doing lot of precious time is going to be dispersed duplicating at least almost the same efforts. Exceptions to sayd rule fortunately does exist even if in some degree, namely: Otto, Gustav22, JDO300, GK, Wave Watcher, Esa Mauno, Eldarion, etc.
To speak about the 'now existing issue' for myself: I'm deeply concerned into designing a new class of electronics able to deliver in an efficient way the HV pulses (...Otto reference) needed to TPU V10-7.
I've now setup a SPICE environment so most of the guessing work is being done by simulation...it's time to get advantage from PCs (OK I did it already in my life in the sixties!). To speak clearly there are many, many possibilities to do the work by using the now available HV IGBT (1700V/30A - nanosecond rise time is enought?) ...just doing the design! If anyone already did it: it means if there are already SPICE models (both schematics & IGBT models)....don't let me re-discover the circle. Anyway no-problem as long as I'm really having fun while playing such a game as it's my actual ground ...much like valves in the sixties!
Roberto
Hello all,
@Roberto,
thanks for your offer, maybe.....I have first to see if I can buy old radios with tubes and the wonderfull double air capacitors. The big dirty one, from old radios, with metal plates...
Now I want to describe a little what I want:
1. a 20 - 25 kV power supply
2. 3 tube oscillators with sine waves. This sine waves should have sines in the range of ...say...over 100V.
The high voltage can be made with our coils like in the ECD: primary and secondary coil connected on 1 end together and we have a high voltage.
The 3 stack is shown without secondary coils because the picture showes ONLY how to wrap the coils. The secondaries are NOT shown.
Now imagine to pulse coils with such a setup!!
X - rays.
Very high speeds of particles.
Low current used.
Otto
Otto,
I do agree with you as another way is just to use an ECD to provide for HV pulses (we do know it very well, isn't it true?): perhaps is the easiest way. As you do know very well this is an old idea...that until now nobody actualized!.....the reason is that IT'S DANGEROUS.
I do still have some ECDs...so It will be easy also for me to check....but...perhaps it's not needed as I do already have what I've looked for since a long time: I've just to decrease the mosfet internal losses...then, as I see it, it's DONE.
If what sayd will be succesfull only then I'll do 'refining'...but before this there's still the 'inital phase' to understand & setup.
Roberto
@Roberto,
yes, its very dangerous. I had the "nice" expirience to feel a high voltage with my fingers....
I have always the same question: when a HV hits your fingers then (/&%% but when it hits your coils with a 100W bulb it seems that no soooo much energy is in this coils. Hmmm....
I hope you found what we all need. I hope it because then we have all done our work.
Otto
Hallo Otto,
Quote from: otto on February 12, 2008, 01:27:21 AM
.... looking for oridinary capacitors in picofarad at 400V or more. NO WAY to buy them here.
Then I found a company in Germany, they have the caps, asked if they would deliver me the caps, answer, no problem, I ordered them and now they dont want to send me the price!!! HA!! Thats nice. My friend wants also to build this oscillators....
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but I think they sell old variable radio caps on ebay.
See on this page
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZzlowe7
at the end:
365pf Variable Capacitor For Ham Crystal Radio
I know that you are not keen to order things via ebay, but maybe the other person who needs the caps can do it.
@Gustav22
they are not good. I need 2 x 300pF - 2x 500pF. The big metal caps. They have a doubled capacitance.
I already have 1 of them. You know how? My radio at home, a good one, not so old, lost his "life" for me, ha,ha.
The German company with a lot of these capacitors is Oppermann. Look at their site and then you will see what I want.
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de
Otto
Quote from: ronotte on February 12, 2008, 04:41:23 AM
...eventually you will discover, like I did some time ago, that NOBODY does want to team so you are left alone with your problems: so doing lot of precious time is going to be dispersed duplicating at least almost the same efforts. Exceptions to sayd rule fortunately does exist even if in some degree, namely: Otto, Gustav22, JDO300, GK, Wave Watcher, Esa Mauno, Eldarion, etc.
Hang in there, gentlemen. I read of your efforts daily. I do not yet comment because I have nothing to add which will help you. I only comment now because your frustration level seems high at the moment and I want you to know that you are not alone.
I drove many miles to meet with jdo300 a couple weeks ago. We spoke of the his latest theories concerning nonlinear acoustics but he does not have the answers either. Still, it was uplifting to meet another soul in person that is looking for the same answers.
Jason spoke of someone that posts here that claims to have many working versions of this TPU concept. This person gives out word hints with no images. Sorry, but one-dimensional word hints are utterly useless for a great many reasons, namely, the missing dimensions. There are an infinite number of ways to fit the one dimensional word hints into a three dimensional build that will lead to more wasted time and more wasted money.
We also have the other extreme of folks posting pictures, videos, schematics, part numbers of things which are not working TPU's.
We have folks telling us that what we learned in school was either all wrong or partially wrong or not complete.
I understand precious time. I am twice Jason's age with four times the responsibilities. In fact, I will be late for work today just because I stopped to type out this message.
I am moving at a snails pace right now. I have given up certain things like cigarettes and alcohol in an attempt to clear my head. Every day I wonder, "what is the secret?"
I feel like I can do this but there is something blocking me. I feel like it is simple but I am making it more difficult than it needs to be. And because folks who have discovered the secrets share nothing of value, or if they do then I do not know who they are or I can not pick their 'clues' out from all of the other background noise, I think this is a personal vision quest; I will need to figure it out all by myself.
But take heart, if I ever do find the place that I seek, know that I am a damned good map maker! ;)
Hi Rosphere,
yes, I agree that at least 1 of the guys have a working TPU.
If allowed, I would summarise a little what we have:
1. drawings how to wrap the coils
2. "dfros" 2 posts
3. High voltage pulses are used
Enough?
For myself, YES but Im now a PC hero!!! Only wrighting and doing almost NOTHIG. Yes, almost.
The last few days Im playing with Avramenkos free electron pump ot to say it better, with a single wire transmission of energy. Its nice when you see a little bulb glowing and then you touch the wires!!....outch!!
The secrets of the TPU??
Very fast rotating particles that are collided in the circumference of the TPU.
Thats the secret!!!
Otto
PS: does somebody sell 3 radios of the same type?? HA, HA.
@otto
If you want to look at these two pages and see which VC's are appropriate and I will get them for you and send them out to you, no problem.
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p96.htm
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p97.htm
My only worry about the VC is that they have a very small ranges of activity so you may need several to cover a good range of adjustment testing.
Also look at the capacitor section and let me know which ones you need. There is alot of item here and I have already ordered from them once. Delivery was a little long but they were in flood conditions at the time so it is understandable.
@roberto
My offer is always open to build a few TPU and send them to you. This I can do. Remember the 100K vdc pulser. Well I had two but one was defective so I tried to take it apart to see how it was built, but the two sections are all sunk in epoxy so impossible to see how they are made. S*&t!!!!!
@Gustav22
From your post, do I understand that you have built an ECD with the three CCs, or are you building the TPU 10 type unit?
@all
Has anyone ever tested pulsing dc to power a mosfet, in order to see if the mosfet functionality is modified and if not, if the mosfets generates less heat.
Rosphere,Ã, well said.
I can relate to this frustration quite well.Ã, I feel the same.Ã, However, let me assure you that nobody has a TPU !!
Some of us THINK we have TPUs but we realy don't.Ã, Why?Ã, Because we don't know what a TPU is, there is no absolute specification for it.Ã, Perhaps we need to define first.
What is a TPU anyway?Ã,Â
We are talking about the Steven Mark's toroidal power unit, but we don't realy know the principles that it works on with utmost certainty,Ã, but we do have a good idea about some aspects of it from what Mr Mannix has told us.Ã, Supposedly this information came from Steven himself.Ã, Then there are the videos, and from some of the videos you get the feeling that it's not using any types of batteries.Ã,Â
I don't want anybody to get upset, because some people here are doing great work and are exploring and experimenting, which is all we can do, but we can't realy say we have a TPU like Stevens if we input power into it.
When we make a TPU that exibits power loss when turned upside down, and it has no batteries, and it can light two 100W bulbs and, has some vibration to it, and it's activated with magnets, then maybe we can say we're close to what Steven has, then maybe we have a TPU !Ã,Â
But untill then it's just experimentation.Ã, Steven just provided for us inspiration in what area to look, That's all.Ã, He realy couldn't tell us due to the politics involved.
As a side note:
I don't want to discourage the folks experimenting with tubes, but frankly, that's not where its at and it can discourage folks.Ã, You can learn alot from it, but if you want oscillators you can get them impremented in silicon with high frequency transistors.Ã, Steven was just telling us his roadmap and how he discovered the effects, and in his time tubes were used alot.Ã, Does this mean we have to travel the same road?Ã, Maybe maybe not, but we can build oscillators easily now without tubes.Ã, My mini-Tesla coil uses about 10 Volts and low voltage transistors and yet it can output over 1 kiloVolt and cause arcing.Ã, What we need is solid accurate knowledge of how to design proper circuits with what's available nowadays.
EM
Chef, I don't use TUBES and I consider myself a TPU researcher.
If you feel like using tubes, go for it, all I'm saying is , it's not necessary.Ã,Â
With tubes, we are getting farther and farther away from running without batteries.Ã, We are now dealing with high supply voltages, transformers, AC power, etc,..Ã, and that's not what a TPU uses.
EM
OL
Wow.
The fustration comes in waves across us equally. Especially when the waves of individuals heterodyne into a standing wave. ;)
We are not standing still. This a is a mandatory break in thinking. It happens in productive thinking circles.
I am still impressed with the calibar of minds here. There is non like it in the world and don't a little fustration stop this. Somebody or a collected team is on the verge of the next step. We all know copper and frequencies. 'nuff said. It is the combinations we are stiving for. Since the first group back 1 1/2 year ago came on board they have added and dropped members. No one works alone as long as they share. We have all done that and that is commendable.
I have slowed down or it appears to be. I too have been watching results and felt it was time to take stab at a leap of faith in putting more stages together. I have seen all these proven by you all, Tesla, Schauberger, Keely and the likes.
You can't run around dragging your wings on the ground and call it flying. Any way that is my quote of the day. I have more to do.
The setup I am working on will drive the coils to get the magetic fields pressured into the center. Then impose an ac signal on top of that and moving in a counterclockwise direction to get the heterodyning effect in that center. (Schauberger, Keely)
The diameter of SMs smaller coils facilitated the smaller dc bias. The field didn't have to go that far to touch another field. You, yourself can touch the edges. Don't touch the center.
1 1/2 years I had posted a TPU in parallel with the surface of the Earth. Marco immediately reposted the pic with the vortex top and bottom in it. I trust in what he says. I think I know where I am headed with this effort.
If you need high voltage then get a stungun. 8)
--giantkiller. Life is what happens when we are making other plans. :'(
Hi guys,
not wanting to discourage any body but high speed electron flow has been pointed out as essential
the speed of semis has been pointed out as a limiting factor.
Experimenting with tubes is easier especially at first.
The best of luck for any body ,whatever you use to experiment, but high voltage seems pretty common.
Another thing to think about is that what you see in the videos are running units......that are activated........is it possible that the process was started by something else. its like a car that develops 500 hp...yet it is started with some lead and some acid. we dont admire the battery do we?
Just try keep an open mind ...the enormity of this discovery excludes most common ground so we really need to use what little we have...as well as we can. Luck will play a part as well
good hunting whatever your chosen tools
page 1 of master of magnetics ...
Lindsay Mannix
Lindsay,
Good to see your keeping up with the guys have you been building also...
the guys have been doing a great job and have been keeping us all interested
I have been working with another project Bedini with my own twist
it has its moments Once I finish what I'm doing I hope to start building the TPU
Just looking to see how your doing
Nick
Quote from: wattsup on February 12, 2008, 08:26:40 AM
@Gustav22
From your post, do I understand that you have built an ECD with the three CCs, or are you building the TPU 10 type unit?
I made a 3stack as depicted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
(not an ECD).
This was how it looked at some point during building:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediafire.com%2Fimgbnc.php%2Facbc2409b2ed89a6ff12491dfb5d4e9a2g.jpg&hash=f983299c96e8929fabfbe0cf684a3b89dee63357) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=azf7ejtdd9p&thumb=4)
Click on pic to enlarge.
It is the same basic layout which ronotte used for his TPU V10
However, testing will have to wait until the end of February.
@ronotte
You have explained this to me before, but I did not understand properly, so I want to make sure:
The output signal of your unit with 5" collector diameter (6" diameter of total unit) is visible in your scope shot posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg75454.html#msg75454
In this unit you use 3 frequencies as input on the CCs (15 kHz, 30 kHz, 105 kHz).
Now the question:
Does the output 3sister-signal (for lack of a better word) have the same frequency as the highest of the 3 input signals?
In other words: is 105 kHz also the frequency of the 3sister-signal in your unit?
edit: I realize that the question is not stated properly, as the 3sister-signal is probably the same, even if a chord not containing 105 kHz is used for excitation.
So maybe the question should be phrased like this:
Is the frequency of the 3sister-signal always equal to fundamental_excitation_frequency * 7 ?
f3s = 7 * ff
frequency_of_3sister = 7 * fundamental_frequency
!?
Hello all,
@wattsup
thanks for your kind offer. I will try to find this caps in my city, somehow. But maybe ....
@giantkiller
you mentioned a stungun. What about a flash unit from a camera? Or just coils primary - secondary, the primary, one end connected to the secondary like in a car ignition coil, to get a high voltage? Like in the ECD?? Easy to make!
@All
I want to use tubes because in the past I blowed so many various MOSFETs that Im not able anymore to buy them and I dont want them, until I see my "TPU" working with tubes and THEN I can think about how to get rid of the oscillators and the power supply.
A nice long journy is waiting for me.
To be the first? Glory?
NO THANKS!!! Everything that I know is already posted.
I just want it, nothing more! But I have to deserve it with my work!
Sorry to wright this but that are my feelings about my 2 years work. Maybe I have to spent another 2 years for a TPU?? Fine with me. I have time.
Frustration?
NO WAY.
Im surching for a solution and if I fail I have to turn my mind in another direction and try again and again and....
At least I know about hundreds of ways how a TPU cant work, ha,ha.
Otto
@All,
thanks to all for showing your ideas because that's just a way to 'feel' that we are not alone. In fact many of you guys even if not posting are without any doubt active and following what it's happening here.
My personal opinion, for what it worths, is that we all are living great times and for sure now or later we will get remunered: so let's think positive.
I AM NOT FRUSTRATED!
On the contrary 'I never have been so happy like now'. Am I a dreamer? I don't think so as what I've seen (and I'm not joking and/or auto-convincing myself) in this period is so evident that I'm FORCED to proceed on this already pawed way.
So Rosphere & other: I do appreciate a lot what you are sharing (...there will be soon time for your Rodin to be put in action..), the problem is that the scenario is continuosly changing so unless to discuss it day-by-day is almost impossible to contribute. Of one thing you may be sure: I WILL SHARE WITHOUT HIDING ANYTHING MY WORK'S RESULT.
Roberto
@Roberto,
I know you are not fustrated. You press on diligently without fault. And like a great engineer you are meticulous about the documentation. Hats off to you! This whole process is a Godsend to those who want to jump in and are apprehensive. They will pick their spot to get onboard. We, so far, have done this. And isn't it great!
The 3 channel FET driver configuration I made to drive the ECD is now brought forward to hook the BFG2k8 to . This is a 3 layer, 3 segment ECD. Thank you for that.
Pump it up!
About the stun gun or flash? Tesla says High speed current. The effect can be seen the whitish, bluish purple flashes. The SM17 does this too the larger the load / smaller resistance / short. 8) It just keeps pumping a charge out. 8)
--giantkiller.
Roberto i fully understand you are experimenting with an eye on safety issues.
Who want's to blow himself up right?
But i also think we should push the experiments to the limits.
And i do think 50 Volts does not even come close to what it needs to start catalyst sequence.
Actually 42 Volts is conciderd to be "safe" over here.
My experimenting floor is at 500 volts and i will not go below that just to make sure i do not miss something.
I am not affraid of high voltage and if i injure myself with my tests then so be it.
That only tells me i need to be more carefull.
It looks like the 500 Volt still isn't high enough so i am thinking to raise it above 25.000 Volts to meet the exesive voltages the faulty circuitry pushed out in the malfunctioning television sets, back in the day's.
M.
Guys,
In one of the youtube moves from BorderlandResearch ( on Longitudinal waves ) they mentioned the book "Elementary Lectures on Electric Discharge" by Steinmetz.
Luckily Google has put it online ;D
http://books.google.com/books?id=79W0wXz6_ZEC&pg=PA6&dq=Elementary+Lectures+on+Electric+discharge
I attach it here also.
Reading through now I can see why Tesla and the other researchers were stopping the current as fast as possible and gaining something from this abrupt stop. Reading it may give some additional knowledge and ideas to TPU research community.
Good luck to everyone!
SAS
Quote from: -[marco]- on February 13, 2008, 12:23:33 PM
Roberto i fully understand you are experimenting with an eye on safety issues.
Who want's to blow himself up right?
But i also think we should push the experiments to the limits.
And i do think 50 Volts does not even come close to what it needs to start catalyst sequence.
Actually 42 Volts is conciderd to be "safe" over here.
My experimenting floor is at 500 volts and i will not go below that just to make sure i do not miss something.
I am not affraid of high voltage and if i injure myself with my tests then so be it.
That only tells me i need to be more carefull.
It looks like the 500 Volt still isn't high enough so i am thinking to raise it above 25.000 Volts to meet the exesive voltages the faulty circuitry pushed out in the malfunctioning television sets, back in the day's.
M.
@Marco
You remined me of a good freind who said this once to me
" .. yea joe i sutck my hand in the transformer liquid a few times that wasn't too fun,but we had to test for pcb's somehow" .. "We didnt know what it did to skin back then... " While were having this conversation he's sticking his hand in the back of the uhf harris transmitter and is about an inch away from the 440 line that serviced it with no gloves on .. This friend was a old broadcast engineer probably close to 60 .... If he's still live and kicking im sure we'll all be fine... Only thing that ever bothered this guy was the wasp's out by the tower.. i can understand that one :)
Thanks for your time
Joe
Quote from: -[marco]- on February 13, 2008, 12:23:33 PM
Roberto i fully understand you are experimenting with an eye on safety issues.
Who want's to blow himself up right?
But i also think we should push the experiments to the limits.
And i do think 50 Volts does not even come close to what it needs to start catalyst sequence.
Actually 42 Volts is conciderd to be "safe" over here.
My experimenting floor is at 500 volts and i will not go below that just to make sure i do not miss something.
I am not affraid of high voltage and if i injure myself with my tests then so be it.
That only tells me i need to be more carefull.
It looks like the 500 Volt still isn't high enough so i am thinking to raise it above 25.000 Volts to meet the exesive voltages the faulty circuitry pushed out in the malfunctioning television sets, back in the day's.
M.
nice knowing you Marco, we'll miss you buddy!! LOL :D :D
My units behave exactly like common radios in one way....
Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver...
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and
we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio.
The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you
permit the collector to dissipate into a load...
In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies
within a space of the collector coil's circumference.
The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the
collector coil....
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for
amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for
the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain...
The only part he doesn't have any idea about is that by starting
the oscillation you cause the current to flow in the collector which
causes the magnification of the process within the collector which
will ultimately produce the greater voltage and power in usable
amounts during operation....
The good news is, you have such a clear picture now that you actually
have all you need to make one of these things.
It may take you a long time to stumble on all the correct frequencies
necessary to have a really good super power generator, but you CAN do
it...
Because I did.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 13, 2008, 06:59:07 PM
My units behave exactly like common radios in one way....
Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver...
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and
we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio.
The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you
permit the collector to dissipate into a load...
In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies
within a space of the collector coil's circumference.
The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the
collector coil....
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for
amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for
the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain...
The only part he doesn't have any idea about is that by starting
the oscillation you cause the current to flow in the collector which
causes the magnification of the process within the collector which
will ultimately produce the greater voltage and power in usable
amounts during operation....
The good news is, you have such a clear picture now that you actually
have all you need to make one of these things.
It may take you a long time to stumble on all the correct frequencies
necessary to have a really good super power generator, but you CAN do
it...
Because I did.
Hi EMdevices:
Are you saying you now have a mini-Tesla working TPU? We all hope so!
cheers
chrisC
Hello all,
@Marco
be carefull!!
A shield would be great.
Otto
no, I don't have anything working. Those are SM quotes.
HI TO ALL
HI MANNIX I HOPE YOU WHILL MAKE LIKE SM TPU ?????? IF YOU MAKE TPU I DONT THING YOU WHILL SAY SOMTHING FOR THAT THIS FORUM IS TO TELL THE TRUE NOT TO MAKE AS JOKE HERE LIKE WE ARE KIDS HO PLAY WHIT AS OK
ALL TIME YOU COME HERE LIKE YOU ARE GOD HERE HMMM PLEASE DONT SAY AND DONT LAY AS HERE THIS FORUM IS FOR FREE MAN HO LIKE TO SAFE THE WORLD
AND SOMTHING ELSE <<MANNIX>> WE KNOW WHAT IS SAY SM.. BUT DONT SAY HOW AS PUT IN THE WRONG WAY PLEASE .....
I SAY TO YOU I KNOW SOME TRUE ABOUT THIS TPU LISTEN WE ARE NOT STUPID LISTEN
TPU OF <<SM>> HAS A///----- ALL HIS TPU HAS <<<SWITCH ON/OFF>>
<<<AN WHEREIS SWITCH THERE IS BATERY <<<<WHERE ARE BATERE MOST BE SOME
ELKTRONICS PART FOR MAKEING PULS TRAING MOVING ELKTROMAGNET FILD
WHIT SOME SPEED
AND FINALY THE SM SAID TO YOU MOVING SMALL MAGNET CLOUSE WIRE WHIT HIGH SPEED
AND I SAY I MOVE ELKTROMAGNET SMALL WHIT HIGH SPEED
HOW IS POSIBLE
INSAID BIG TPU HAS BOX AND INSAID HAS SOME PULSE ELKTRONICS HO MADE TO MOVE ELKTROMAGNET FILD LIKE 1 2 3 4 THEN 1 2 3 4
///// SM SAY THAT MOVE SMALL MAG WHIT SOME HIGH SPEED AND YOU CREATED SOME VIBRATION THERE WAY VIBRATION
IF YOU HAVE 4 COILS SEPARATEDE AND PUT SOME VOLTAGE FIRST IN THE 1 THEN IN 2 THEN 3 THNE 4 <,SEPARATEDLY YOU WHILL SE THERE BE SOME VIBRTATIONS
SM HAS SOME AND GOOD EXPLANE
IF YOU PUT
Hi All
This seems like and old Tesla thing but I saw it on Popular Science a month ago and it looks like
the type of coil we may need or at least the same or .similar concept take a look
Think of the coil, as a coil using earth as the transmitter
Its worth a look
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-01/electricity-air#
Nick
Guys you got to see the TPU all over you tube the lit is way open...how come SM doesn't come forward like the rest of the people.Here is a link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8222679614108378695
Good find. Great stuff. May not be for this thread but no ones using anyways. lol Just jokin guys.
I grabbed this frame. Here's the cherry on the cake.
From the video at 1:00:37.
Anti gravity device.
His opinion on gravity is pretty categoric and touches something discussed when "One" was around here.
Two fields turning a ball in two directions creates a gravity. Gravity attracts ether.
So what happens if you had many many well arranged ball fields turning in two directions. Hmmmmmmm.
I grabbed the second image. Could not resist.
There's a lot of energy floating around.
Greetings Gurus...
this is my first post, although I have been following this site and forum for quite a while. I have been a free thinker and Tesla follower for many years. This is an incedible thread, as I believe Steven Mark's TPU an authentic energy transceiving and amplifying device.
GREAT WORK TINKERERS!!!!!!!! I am in awe of your passion for truth and understanding.
I was wondering how close the current designs are to the available Patent app that MPI filed. Did he not sell his design to them?
-Spectra
check this video guys
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4182905293548090350
Great video man.
You should take a ride in my new flying gyro scooter ;D
@marco,
can you pick me up at house? i've already had a few, if you know what i mean. but if you hurry we should still have time to make the daytona 500!
lol
sam
Sure thing Sam :)
Bring me a couple of you know what's too.
Then i can switch it to autopilot since i do not drink and fly ;D
Darn it guys wait for me. My craft has been parked on the shelf waiting for a free energy device:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phonecotech.com%2FOverU%2FDeyoAntiG.gif&hash=ee87e0aadce9a5a121661bb6b548b3db0e42b3c5)
Got to admit though. Antigravity would be way cool. ;D
Take care.
nap
-
just one word. "BELIEVE" Nothing is impossible.
So, did anybody get a TPU to run in closed loop? :o
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on February 19, 2008, 07:54:56 PM
So, did anybody get a TPU to run in closed loop? :o
EM
@EM
Isn't that a Newbie's questions? lol
I'm saving them the troubleÃ, Ã, :DÃ, Ã, LOL
EM
-
@EMDevices
If you so choose add to your thought experiment.
Make the initial transmission line open ended, from the view of each pulse generator. This way the reflected waves are most abundant and the proposed effect from the waves are more abundant and repeated.
I like the T-line idea provided it doesnââ,¬â,,¢t provide termination of the first line.
Now, if my view of magnetics is correct it becomes more interesting. That being there is only one magnetic field. So, at the point of wave crossing we have the expected superpositioning of the electric but not the magnetic. Why? Because the magnetic portion cannot be added because there is only one.
What does happen (theoretically) is THE magnetic field at each wave is stretched into opposite polarities at each wave. When the waves meet the opposing magnetic polarities cannot cancel (because they are actually one flux). What does happen with the magnetic?
It is not a cancellation. It is a disconnection (insert here ââ,¬â€œ ââ,¬Ëœof the field linesââ,¬â,,¢ if that is the only way you can view it). What happens when you disconnect field lines? The space is balanced with dielectric. The magnetic will always win by reconnecting. When it does it is with extreme force, displacing the dielectric (RE anyone?). RE generates its own magnetic disturbance just like any of electric charge movement.
And so ends the first loop of the process.
And I think that will also cover the idea of the push/squeeze behind the wave.
Time for my medication now >:(
-
Using my understanding:
Same polarity case ( always speaking of the E field, aren't we ):
The magnetic flux is always there. It only varies in concentration. At the point where they meet they actually add just like the E. The difference is when you add +1 and -1 the answer is zero. The 'net' magnetic flux, at that point in time and space is zero.
Opposite polarity case ( E fields again ):
Ditto except the H is then +1 added to +1 for a net magnetic field of 2 which, in energy terms is 4 times the magnetic strength. And E is now +1 added to -1 for a total of zero.
Laws of induction ..... Amazing to contemplate the possibilities.
Like I've said before - you weaken one the other fills the void. Choose which one you want and zero out the other ;)
You guys aren't of Hungarian descent are you? ;) ;)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3068.0.html
Just so others can grasp the idea of two wave fields in superposition leading to DOUBLE the energy output...Proven by Janos in theory AND via experiment, yes, he does have a working device...
8)
Hi guys,
I am a bit confused. If you used two waves, would you not require double the energy to produce two waves versus just one wave. So if two waves use double the energy, and they produce double the energy, where's the beef? Or are you saying each wave will produce double the initial wave, making four times more energy, versus the double energy required to produce two waves makes a net gain of double.
@tao
It's good that you bring his information back to life.
Hi Tao,
That was a great post you made, thanks for the link to it. I hate to say, I had not read it before tonight.
@ All
In my thread in my very last post, speaking of the transformer idea, with the opposing signals and speculating that the TPU with baling wire, may have been the baling wire used as steel laminations as a transformer. And that the "Collector" made of litz wire (IMHO) collected the resultant addition of power. I believe that is what SM meant when he call it the "Phenomenon of Magnetic Collection".
EM quoted a part of the Hungarian, to say that it would not work, BUT, I found this in Tao's post that puts into his words, what I was trying to imply. I am still of this persuasion.
"The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization." (*This would describe the function of the collectors to perfection, as well as the tuning aspect of the collectors needed in the SM device.)
I would also add, that a DC bias on the collectors only might also be needed, almost as a "positive plate" in a tube. The bias would assist in collecting the electrons that are in free space.. Hmmmm...this is sounding familiar. ;D
Cheers all,
Bruce
@Wattsup
My favorite analogy is this - Two cars in a head-on collision. If they are transverse cars (moving like a Hertzian wave) when they collide one magically drives over the other car and no damage is done to either. The only thing that happens is their total height and energy, for that instant, is doubled. Once they pass they continue without any effects.
No two-sisters effect there ;D (Don't ever try to recreate the 3-Mother-in-Law effect :o )
This is the way of most wave crossings in water and EM or A2+B2
Now for the reality of a car crash:
The two cars are LEM (longitudinal) cars. They are both travelling at 50 kph. When they hit, the damage done is the same as if each separately hit a brick wall at 200 kph or (A+B)2
Two-Sisters effect :D
Now add a third sister and stand back ;D
The energy in any wave is the square of the area of that wave.
For those spouting 'don't work in EM da same way as water'. Tell that to the folks using magnetrons and wave guides.
BTW: The resultant wave on EM's graphic won't look like a single pulse at the point of combination. It will be two pulses of extremely high amplitude and short duration. Each will be generated when the leading and trailing edges of the two waves cross its like neighbor. When the two are side-by-side and at highest amplitude the resultant amplitude will be the difference of the two. So the middle will fall to zero, in this case. When a trailing edge crosses a leading edge the result is zero. - good way to make unidirectional current flow or cause an electrostatic charge to build up on a conductor. Also a good way to make a wave fit onto a conductor shorter than a wavelength.
My view of DC (or PM) bias is it mainly just concentrates magnetic flux where work must be done. You could do the same with electrostatic bias and work from the other angle. I suspect electing to use E vs. H bias is why there appear to be two major types of TPU's.
I should say:
There is a lot of energy that should result from this type of activity but forcing a disconnection an allowing the reconnection (forcing from near-field to far-field and allowing it to fall back to near-field) should result in energy magnitudes higher.
http://www.emfs.info/source_distance.asp
I don't understand what you guys are talking about? This is all Hungarian to me! LOL :D :D
Let's make a device based on this principle and see if it works.
EM
Do magnetic fields really cancel???
Now that I actually stop and think about it I'm not so sure.
When you bring magnets close to each other have you ever seen field lines cancel.
In the attachment I've compiled frames from an old Floyd Sweets video where he displays the field lines surrounding magnets.
-Duff
If by 'cancel' you mean totally eliminate - no. The net magnetic field can be zero. That does not mean there is no magnetic field. Zero doesn't even mean non-existance. Zero is only nothing depending upon the observer's frame.
Zero, plus, minus, positive and negative are just ideas we created to help us understand something - not good ideas, in my book.
Zero on your scope may be thousands of volts if you change your reference.
Nice shots of 'field lines'. Chances are pretty good the actual lines are still on the screen even when there is no magnet nearby. I would have put them there to help show the field shape just like 'field lines' were intended originally - only a way to visualize the shape.
Notice how all the subtext seems wrong? I doubt it is. I also doubt it is the magnetic H field he is showing.
@BEP
QuoteNow for the reality of a car crash:
The two cars are LEM (longitudinal) cars. They are both travelling at 50 kph. When they hit, the damage done is the same as if each separately hit a brick wall at 200 kph or (A+B)2
The 2 car collision was a poor analogy. 2 cars of equal but opposite velocity, equal mass and equal structural rigidity and strength behave the same in collision whether it is head on or with a brick wall interposed between them. The point of collision is stationary while the 2 cars crumple identically on either side of the point of impact. If the cars have differing strength and or structural rigidity the point of collision moves in the direction of the stronger car meaning that the effective collision velocity for the weaker car is higher. It will never be 100km/h as even a vehicle with infinite strength and rigidity is still decellerating during the collision. For 2 vehicles of differing mass, the lighter vehicle will see a higher collision velocity as the heavier vehicle decellerates less. In the extreme case of one vehicle having infinite mass and rigidity the other vehicle will have to absorb the entire 100km/h collision for less than infinite rigidity the effective collision speed will be less than 100km/h
To better visualise this, a vehicle hitting a brick wall at 100km/h is identical to a brick wall and attached planet travelling at 50 km/h being hit by a vehicle travelling at 50 km/h in the opposite direction. The car hits wall at 50km/h decellerates to 0km/h then continues to decellerate to -50km/h (the brick wall speed is unchanged)
The energy of a moving object is 1/2mv^2 , the damage done to a vehicle is this energy doing work on the vehicle. Two vehicles of the same mass and speed have the same energy, if 2 vehicles approaching at the same speed had 2x the effective speed at collision then the collision energy would be 4x the single vehicle energy and double the actual energy ( 2 x 1/2mv^2) energy making car crashes an overunity event.
The effective speed at collision is different from the apparent speed, I probably didn't do a good job of explaining this but it is such a common misconception that myth busters should run it..
It all sounds familiar but i did not see the inertia come into play.
If the planet would stop rotating, the atmosphere would still move on for a short while due to inertia.
If we create a rotating magnetic field using sines/pulses it is quite different then when we set a static field in motion.
That is, not 100% correct because we only create the apperance of a rotating magnetic field at some distance with respect to the used magnet/coils.
We can say the field only varies in amplitute in a rotary fashion and that at a specific distance this will look similar as to a real rotataing magfield.
M.
@-Marco-
QuoteIt all sounds familiar but i did not see the inertia come into play.
If the planet would stop rotating, the atmosphere would still move on for a short while due to inertia.
I guess you were referring to my post about the collision of 2 vehicles and not a post about 2 EM waves passing in a transmission line, if not disregard this post.
Anyway When a vehicle accelerates it accellerates the planet a minute amount in the opposite direction, the same when it decellerates, a vehicle crashing into a wall doesn't stop the planet it merely slows it slightly as the vehicle accellerates to the planets speed and yes the atmosphere should lag in speed slightly, the effect is so minute as to be negligable due the very much greater mass of the planet.
My post was written in terms of Kinetic energy, Inertia is not energy just like Volts and Amps are not energy, Inertia is useful for calculating forces. An ommission in my previous post was that if 2 vehicles of identical mass and opposite velocity collide but they have different strengths the final velocity of both vehicles will be the same due to conservation of inertia, but the weaker vehicle will have absorbed the most energy and the collision point will be displaced toward the weaker vehicle.
I appologose for getting a bit OT, the transmission line stuff brings back memories :)
2 very interesting pdf?s ,
that i find in my collection again.
must not longer undercovered..
Dupr? (in german )
sehr interessante Lekt?re, die
es icher Wert ist beachtet zu werden.
Must be read . Magnet field in DC current circles
Quote from: BEP on February 23, 2008, 08:20:31 PM
Nice shots of 'field lines'. Chances are pretty good the actual lines are still on the screen even when there is no magnet nearby. I would have put them there to help show the field shape just like 'field lines' were intended originally - only a way to visualize the shape.
Notice how all the subtext seems wrong? I doubt it is. I also doubt it is the magnetic H field he is showing.
@BEP
From what I understand the field lines as displayed by Sweet can only be
duplicated using a Sony Trinton.
The subtext is a description of the magnetic orientation as described in the video.
What is interesting is that these field patterns don't match whats in the text
books. If it is not displaying the magnetic H field then what is it...
I'm wondering what would be the implication if we modeled the field interaction, when two
pulses meet, around what Sweet/Bearden displayed in the video.
Quote from: duff on February 24, 2008, 06:41:28 AM
@BEP
From what I understand the field lines as displayed by Sweet can only be
duplicated using a Sony Trinton.
The subtext is a description of the magnetic orientation as described in the video.
What is interesting is that these field patterns don't match whats in the text
books. If it is not displaying the magnetic H field then what is it...
I'm wondering what would be the implication if we modeled the field interaction, when two
pulses meet, around what Sweet/Bearden displayed in the video.
Trinitron? Why does mention of this technology keep popping up? There were two main differences (that I am aware of) between the Triniton technology and others.
1. The trinitron used a separate cathode for each color (separate source). This may have changed to one in later years. I don't know.
2. Most CRTs used a metal plate with tiny holes where each pixel would appear when the beam penetrated. The trinitron had no metal plate. It used vertical wires (supported by 1 or two horizontal wires) to place the dots.
Thinking outloud.... place a magnet near a screen with the metal plate inside - just did it (good thing degaussing is built in) - Yep! just like the books tell us - in disagreement with the pics.
---now that my Tv and monitor are both goofed up ----
My old TV shows the same as his pics. So I can only surmize the computer monitor shows magnetic field effects (like the books. What is my TV showing? I need to work on this.
BTW: no crt prep needed here. The TV has the horizontal wires showing. One about 1/3 and another about 2/3 from the top. The separate RGB beams made the 'field lines' apparent. Even a single bar magnet shows two distinct separate lobes. 1 at N and 1 at S.
Something else I just noted: My computer monitor is still screwed up (assuming it is not of Trinitron heritage). My old TV shows no signs now of my magnet games. Nope - no auto degaussing.
@Pese
I haven't been fluent in German in over 30 years but it is obvious you are right. Those documents are indeed 'a must read'. His math is far beyond me but the concepts are clear. (speaking of Dupre)
Thanks!
Ok guys, I'm going to let out a secret :P
What do you think?
EM
P.S. The reasoning should be straight forward based on what we have been discussing. You can buy power combiners for microwave work. Do they multiply power? No. Why and why not? Do you see the reasoning here. The input impedance at the signal source is 1/2 z0, where "z0" is the characteristic impedance of the track, say 50 ohms. We get 1/2 50 ohms since we have the two sections in parallel.
Power in is then: Pin = V^2/25 (for the short duration of the ON pulse, and assuming negligible internal source impedance for the battery/MOSFET circuit)
Now here's the magic. At the other end, due to the slight taper of the lines as they combine (let's assume we can find a nice taper that minimizes reflections backwards) the pulses combine and the voltage doubles since each pulse contributes a packet of charge, so double the charge double the voltage. The T-line is now back to 50 ohms, and let's assume matched load of 50 ohms.
Power out is now: Pout = (2xV)^2/50 = 4 x V^2/50 = 2 x V^2/25 = 2 x Pin
You see, double the power input.
Remember, this device only works with pulses and in the transient mode realm. If you just hook up a battery to the track, you can easily see it's nothing special. The magic really occurs in the realm of ELECTODYANAMICS and transmission line theory. This means fast short duration pulses. A great man once said....."create lots of kicks for FAST SEND OFF"
Quote from: EMdevices on February 24, 2008, 12:07:35 PM
Ok guys, I'm going to let out a secret :P
What do you think?
EM
P.S. The reasoning should be straight forward based on what we have been discussing. You can buy power combiners for microwave work. Do they multiply power? No. Why and why not? Do you see the reasoning here. The input impedance at the signal source is 1/2 z0, where "z0" is the characteristic impedance of the track, say 50 ohms. We get 1/2 50 ohms since we have the two sections in parallel.
Power in is then: Pin = V^2/25 (for the short duration of the ON pulse, and assuming negligible internal source impedance for the battery/MOSFET circuit)
Now here's the magic. At the other end, due to the slight taper of the lines as they combine (let's assume we can find a nice taper that minimizes reflections backwards) the pulses combine and the voltage doubles since each pulse contributes a packet of charge, so double the charge double the voltage. The T-line is now back to 50 ohms, and let's assume matched load of 50 ohms.
Power out is now: Pout = (2xV)^2/50 = 4 x V^2/50 = 2 x V^2/25 = 2 x Pin
You see, double the power input.
Remember, this device only works with pulses and in the transient mode realm. If you just hook up a battery to the track, you can easily see it's nothing special. The magic really occurs in the realm of ELECTODYANAMICS and transmission line theory. This means fast short duration pulses. A great man once said....."create lots of kicks for FAST SEND OFF"
You never cease to amaze me EM, lol 8)
According to our Hungarian fellow: "
When two waves with identical polarization, frequency, phase and amplitude propagate in the same direction and meet (and merge) in free space, then their amplitudes will add together and the amplitude of the resultant wave will be double that of a single input wave."
AND"
Using sound waves in practice it might be difficult to achieve noteworthy outputs, since the practical limit of energy density is quite low in such arrangements. But using electromagnetic microwaves it is possible to make very efficient, relatively cheap and compact devices, without any moving parts. The output of such generators can vary from several kW to the range of GW depending on the size and types of the components. As you can see, this is a real free energy principle that works, and it has been confirmed by measurements and scientific analysis."
I was personally told about Janos, that he DID FOR SURE have working microwave-based devices and that they had to be VERY precisely built so as to perfectly (as well as could be done) superposition the microwaves. Once done, FE is yours...
So, time and again I thought of microwave-based setups and many other types of setups. I especially thought a lot about longitudinal setups utilizing such waves because there wasn't a 'polarization' that you needed to superposition, like when using transverse waves. (Even that the TPU could very well be working based on these principles)
I was never given enough information that would allow me to replicate Janos's device though, they kept the information closely guarded...
Congrats EM... ;D
Can you explain the mechanism of the tapering and how it minimizes the reflections?
hi
CREATED ELKTROMAGENT FILD TO MOVE ELKTRONES IS VERY SIMPLE ISNT
NOW SOME EXPLANE
SM WORDS ...<<dc voltage whit ac voltage >>>small dc v crated elktromagnt fild but whit dc elktromagnet fild we dont have transmit the enrgy to exit coil but how hhmmmm
SM WORDS ...<< if you small pieces 12 inch long wire and move very fast small magnet hmmmmm
HMMMM .. HOW I S POSIBLE DC TO CONVERT ENENRGYTO AC ..LIKE SIMPLE TRANSFORMER
WE KNOW THAT SIMPLE TRANSFORMER WORK IN AC VOLTAGE BUT
WE KNOW THAT IF WE PUT DC V TO SIMPLE WIRE WE KNOW THAT THERE IS MOVE ELKTRONES IN ONE WAY HMMMM
WE HAVE KONTINUES TRAVELING ELKTRONES IN ONE DIRECTION REMEMBER THAT <<CONTINUES MOVING ELKTRONES BUT HOW THIS SIMPLE SMAL LEKTRONES TO FORCE TO PRODUCED MOVING IN SECONDARY COIL
AND HOW THIS SMAL ELKTROMAGNET <<DC>> TO MOVE ATHER ELKTRONES TO ATHER WIRE
and ather dc. elktrmagnet most be move fast to ather wire clouse hmm very fast
FOR big tpu big tpu has tesla primar coil WHAT IS NEED TESLA PRIMAR COIL WAY
WHAT THIS COIL PRODUCED ?hhmm BIG ELKTROMAGNET FILD JUST ONE SECOND HMM
AND ATHER WAY HIS TPU IS MAKEING TO SPIN THE COMPASS
FOR ALL PEOPLE I KNOW THE ANSFER I KNOW WAY FIRST VIDEO OF SM WHIT SIMPLE 3 VOILT BATERY IS STARTING HIS TPU AND HOW IS STARTING AND HOW IS WORK
HA HAHA SM EXPLANE VIDEO WHIT SMALL TPU WHIT CONECT THE TV <<<SAY THIS CREATED ELKTROMAGNET FILD OR MAGNET FILD TO MOVE ELKTRONES
FIRST TPU WHIT BATERY 3 VOLT HE MAKE ELKTROMAGNET FILD AND THEN AHERE THINGS
NOW I KNOW EVERTHING
ELKTROMAGNET FILD + COMPASS ROTATE + TESLA PRIMARI COIL AND VERY IMPORTANT SMAL MAGNET
OPS BIG TPU IS NOT NEED MAGNET SMALL WAY WAY WAY BEACOUSE THERE IS TESLA PRIMARI COIL DONT NEED ENY MORE THIS SMPLE MAGNET FOR DOING MVING ELKTRONES IN SECONDARY COIL
IS NOT MEAN SECONADRY COIL MAYBE IS COLECTOR LIKE TPU GENERATOR FOR DC
VOLTAGE
REMABER AGAIN WE HAVE CONSTANT MOVING FORCE THERE BUT WE DONT HAVE TRANSFORM ENRGY TO SECUNADRY COIL
HOW TO TRANSFORM THIS CONSTANT ONE WAY DIRECTION TO ENRGY
AND ATHER FOR BIG TPU THIS TPU HAS TWO IN ENRGY
FIRST IS SMAL CONSTANT ENRGY SECOND ENRGY IS AGAIN SMALL ENERGY TO PUMP THE YELOW BIG CAPS AND WHERE IS GOING THIS CAPS HMM TO TESLA PRIMAR COIL
THEN THIS TWO ENERGY COME AS LIKE ONE AND MAKE BIG KICK <<EXPALNE SM WHEN TWO FREKFENCY COME AS LIKE ONE BIG AND <<CLAPS WHIT HIS HANDS>>
I FORGOT 3 FREKFENCY <<IS NOT FREKFENY THIS IS PICUP COIL HO HAS DC VOLTAGE
FANY THING IS THIS TPU << DC PRODUCED AND TRANSFORM ENRGY LIKE TRANFORMER HMM >
IS TRUE
I DONT WHANT TO MAKE ANGRY ENUBODY HERE BUT I FIND THE TRUE EVERTHING WHAT IS HAVE SEE AND HEAR OF SM IS I HAVE COLECTED EVERY WORDS HIS AND MAKE SIMPLE WORDS HO HAS EXPALNE EVERTHING
IS TRUE OF SM
I TELL YOU FOR ALL HIS TPU IS VERY IMPORTANT HIS MAGNET OR ELKTROMAGNETS
LOOK THIS ELKTRMAGNET OR SIMPLE SMALL MPER. MAGNET IS NOT TO TRANSFORM OR COLECT THAT ENRGY <<MAGNETS OR ELKTROMAGNET >>>
THE ATHER IS NEED THIS MAGNET ATHER THINGS
I SEE THERE IS NOT ELKTRONICS PARTS OF SOME OSCILATORS OR SOMTHING
ONLY SOURCE OF ONE PUSH ENERGY
Blah...blah...blah...buncha hot air til someone can show everyone how to make even a small unit. Buncha BS.
[edit..see next post]
@EM
Cool. Can you use two diodes facing the same way and that meet together off each of the loops? Would that prevent what you described as reflections. Also I remember discussing this before with Roberto about the loops having to push the pulse at dead center.
Also in the LTPU wiring diagram, there is a small rotary pot (or like it) next to the two switches that could have been used to finely balance only one of the two coil sections to be equal to the other.
@MAC
With pulsing DC in my Tesla Erfinder Challenge Project I am getting in the 40 to 90 volts ranges under standard set-up and there is some AC about 3-4 volts. Hmmmmm. It has also given me the idea that the center coils are used to create the inductance required to charge the yellow caps, to then discharge into the primary and feed off the secondary, just as in this project is doing.
@leeroyjenkinsii
No need to blah anyone here. I would think you can change your post to something more palatable.
I think macedonia cd is right TPU is a modified tesla coil if you read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil
there are too many similarities with SM suggestions!
regards
Turz
-
-
But is there no need to convert the waves to Longitudinal waves, since electromagnetic waves are transversal waves ?
And what is with different power sources ? Everybody is speaking always of one for both waves.
Converting into longitudinal waves maybe with a circuit like this:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F7909%2Fcircuita1il4.png&hash=ce648a5ae67aa7af480a9061e35d06bfebc9cd7b)
kind regards
-
hey EM whats with the >:( >:( >:( >:( ???
An education won't help us that much...
TUBES :) TUBES :) TUBES
M.
Hi EM,
please stay,
not people here are dumb.
I found your new findings very interesting.
Don?t let you drag down by people who don?t understand you.
Not everyone has a degree in EE.
Please upload your stuff again.
( You need to upload it then under a new filename as the old ones still exist in
the database...)
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: Chef on February 25, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: -[marco]- on February 25, 2008, 12:48:29 PM
hey EM whats with the >:( >:( >:( >:( ???
An education won't help us that much...
TUBES :) TUBES :) TUBES
M.
"Chef, I don't use TUBES and I consider myself a TPU researcher.
If you feel like using tubes, go for it, all I'm saying is , it's not necessary."
Marco why do you try to misled him? ;D :D
He already told, it's not necessary.
Hey Steven said he could have done it, without his education....
But not without the TUBES!!
:)
M.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 25, 2008, 12:30:47 PM
p.s. I'm through sharing my ideas on this forum. Too many jackasses who think they know stuff. Get an education for God's sake !!!
Hi EM:
I'm one of those people who follow and read your posts with interests. And sure appreciate your hard work and knowledge. Please don't let jackasses spoil the party and continue to share with us. You're one of these people who postulate something and then back it up with experimental data for us to verify; unlike some clowns who just state stuff as if it was gospel!
Regards
chrisC
HI EM
PLEACE DON`T GO MANY OF AS NEED YOU HELP WITH TPU
THIS IS MY FIRST POST BUT I READ THIS POST FOR SEVERAL MOUNTH
AND I AM AMAZE WITH STUFF I SEE ON THIS FORUM :)
-
hi EM! don't leave,i read only posts from you and otto. i don't trust anyone else here.
just my opinion on tpu: don't listen to SM words because goverment told him to lead us on wrong way. ;)
i think that EM is on good track ;D......but this is just my opinion.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 25, 2008, 02:52:18 PM
why shoud I stay when I get greeted with ignorance over and over and over and over again? And it's not humble ignorance it's in your face type of stuff. I don't get payed to do this, I do it cause I enjoy sharing, but moronic atitudes put me off.
Maybe I should just post mysterious lighting videos and make this a nice show, that should delight the crowds!!
EM
P.S. I reposted the animation, let the wise decipher.
@EM
I think some of us really understand your frustrations, especially dealing with a bunch of noise-making people. A worthy person is judged not because of what he claims to know but in the unmistakable way the postulates are put to the tests and verified by others. You have shown yourself to have not only the brains and conviction to think "outside the box". SM's words may be true in many aspects but unless it is verified by experimental data, who knows?
So, please don't go and share with us more. Some of us don't ask enough questions because we simply are not in the same league or pace!
cheers
chrisC
@EM,
Why should you be bothered by the bullshitters? They have always been here and they will be.
We have a job to do. Surely you have identified people who like to derail a good thread or idea.
I personally hope you will stay and contribute.
@em
i see the tapering in your simulation, what is causing the, apperantly rotating field and how does the taper need to be shaped to get 360degree rotation? is it an overlapping of the fields from the other core or what?
if you don't want to respond on the forum you can pm.
lol
sam
EM
I am just a lurker guy. I don't have the time, resources, and confidents like you have. But I will watch, and try and learn. I can't learn when you decide to stop sharing information. I have never tried to derail a thread; please don't rebel against the innocent. Consider me a fan. :(
Quote from: EMdevices on February 25, 2008, 10:26:09 AM
-
I'm busy making the boss happy and when I come back :o
Whoa! Dude!
You have software that shows that ?
Tapered impedance transmission line? Combining, at the end, with its own reflection? I've used stepped transmission line for impedance matching before. The only time I've used a tapered line was to feed antenna elements.
I'm interested to know the parameters of the simulation.
Now I'm wondering if you have found 'the potential'.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 25, 2008, 02:52:18 PM
why shoud I stay when I get greeted with ignorance over and over and over and over again? And it's not humble ignorance it's in your face type of stuff. I don't get payed to do this, I do it cause I enjoy sharing, but moronic atitudes put me off.
Maybe I should just post mysterious lighting videos and make this a nice show, that should delight the crowds!!
EM
P.S. I reposted the animation, let the wise decipher.
EMdevices,
Please stay for those of us that appreciate your work here. Pay no mind to the rest--pay no mind.
I was busy building a Bob Beck Box over the weekend and then I started back to work today. I missed what all of the fuss was about here. But it is not worth our time for me to go back and read over what got you all worked up. Then I might get all worked up too. ;)
Last I read, a few pages back, you, (a builder,) were proposing a theory. I skimmed a few exchanges of theory before having to go about my day. Then I return to find you in a sorry state?
Pay them no more mind. We both know who is the builder. I believe that you will get around to constructing a small device to test your theory with a little blood, sweat, and tears. Thank you for sharing when you do. When you take a step forward, some of us take a step forward with you. Give no more of your seconds to the rest, not even one; you do not owe everyone a response.
Remember how you felt in school when the teacher punished the whole class for the actions of a few? I always wanted to stand up and say, "we, the rest of the class, would like a redress of grievances." But I always chickened-out. Now I can cower behind my keyboard and type it. Please do not take it out on the rest of the class. :'(
Oh, man. Almost midnight. Work tomorrow. Please hang around long enough for me to catch up at least. ;)
Thank you, :)
Rosphere
Quote from: EMdevices on February 22, 2008, 11:07:06 AM
Ok boys and girls. I hope you appreciate my graphical abilities ! :)
The illustration is self explanatory. We are showing two approximately square wave pulses traveling towards each other on a twin-lead (wire pair) transmission line.
[snip]
image at:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3779.0;attach=17902
@EM
I appreciated your graphic and found it interesting. However, why did you stop and not continue?
Is it not more interesting to propose a realistic method to continuously move the collision point along the wire from one extremity to the other?
Please strut your stuff and tell us how you propose to sweep the collision point from extremity A to extremity B and then:
1- start collision point again at A as soon as the collision point B is reached ?
2- sweep backwards to point A again, when point B has been reached, then reverse
continuously sweeping back and forth between A and B ?
Both of these cases would be continuously repeated at a fastest possible rate, which is determined by the propagation velocity along the transmission line and its length.
It seems to me that in case -1, the output of a collector that is harvesting the radiant energy would be DC with some HF hash.
If case -2 causes AC in the collector, it would be a very high frequency and therefore difficult to use or to rectify at high efficiency.
So while at first look, the result of having DC with AC hash in the collector appears bizarre and inutile, it is actually the best way since the AC hash can be filtered away leaving DC that can be transformed to other voltages or regulated with modern switching type regulators.
It is a bit ironic, maybe even tragic, that it has taken so many years to make a circle from Edison's DC to Tesla's multi-phase AC to Tesla's RE, all the way back to locally generated DC via RE. As much progress that has been brought by Tesla's multi-phase AC, the idea to distribute this all over the planet from centralized locations has turned Earth into a gigantic toaster. Between heating our one and only host planet due to energy extraction via the Carnot cycle and toasting the planet from long distance power distribution, we are heading rapidly towards collective suicide. The rich and powerful have only realized in the last year or three that they are also sinking and that there are no lifeboats on board.
They can never admit that they have been sitting on free energy for 60 years, so they need us to realize a working device.
EM, while I am pleased to see your neurons firing and your interest in solving one of the greatest intellectual problems of our time, quite frankly I am disappointed in your throwing in the towel so easily. I had thought that you were made out of stainless steel, please prove me correct by continuing with your train of thought and answering my above comments: how do you intend to electronically sweep the physical collision point in order to arrive at a practical, working device ?
Earl
;D
@ all,
perhaps it's time to restore this Otto's thread named: 'Steven Mark TPU' into his natural rails.
It may be challenging to know that:
:)
I HAVE OBTAINED & DOCUMENTED AND REPEATED MANY TIMES WHAT DOES APPEAR TO BE THE VERY INITIAL SM's 'WINDING-UP' TPU PROCESS - STAY TUNED
Roberto
@all
Hi,
I am also looking forward to everybody's work on the idea EM has put forward.
Hopefully this can be done in a new thread named accordingly.
In fact this thread here should be re-named to
"Steven Mark`s 3stack TPU"
as this is what it was intended for by Otto.
Otto, you can rename this thread by editing your first posting in this thread and rename the title.
However,
over the weekend I had finally got a chance to test the three different 3stack units I had made.
They are all 5" units, i.e. the diameter of each collector-ring is 5" (ca. 400 mm circumference)
The tests were far from exhaustive as there is never enough time for such things and we also only realized very late, that there was a problem with the power supply for one of the three oscillators.
The main results we found were:
A 3stack as posted here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
can be made without problems and if all CCs go round all the way and have an equal number of turns, a very high rate of power conversion (90?-excitation) can be achieved.
We used Ronotte's standard freqquencies for 5"-units which are
15 kHz, 30 kHz and 105 kHz
My 'unit nr.2' which was made like this showed a very similar behavior as Ronotte's TPU10-7. That is to say we were able to achieve the 3sister output signal and very good light output.
The CCs have to be tuned to resonance with appropriate caps.
The difference to Ronotte's TPU10-7 was mainly that my 'unit nr.2' absorbed probably a bit less current at a given input voltage (we used max. 50 V DC) but also gave slightly less light output.
We had no time and means to try with higher voltage.
Another main find was, that my 'unit nr. 3' which had kind of interleaved CCs did not work well. It absorbed practically no power but also gave practically no light output.
The way of winding which I used for this unit (which I had high hopes in) has so far been proven worthless.
The specs of the three units - for those interested - are logged here:
http://www.fm-soft.de/d18/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=910
(this forum is not meant for discussion. I just use it for logging some stuff)
I hope Ronotte will publish a good push-pull driver for very short excitation pulses in due time.
I know he is working on this very hard.
That, together with a proper way to feed the high output voltage back to the input side should be able to give us what we seek.
@EM
On page 27 your post #402 was edited and simply says "Edit - See next post" which is post #403 done by me. Since the source of all this miss content was not formally identified, I guess I am the cause of all this fuss and I will gladly step out and leave you guys to work this out. I am sorry if there was something in the post that was not suitable. I don't get it, but sorry anyways. I may not be the brightest light on the grid, but I am not afraid of taking some flyback. So, I would rather pull out and have you stick around if that is what it takes.
@Roberto
I was going to say the same thing but you know that we try to keep the pages well oiled so the book does not rust away. All the best.
-
Quote from: leeroyjenkinsii on February 24, 2008, 10:18:44 PM
Blah...blah...blah...buncha hot air til someone can show everyone how to make even a small unit. Buncha BS.
BFG2k8...
I am going there while instituting all that has been talked about. Nothing new.
--giantkiller.
Quote from: leeroyjenkinsii on February 24, 2008, 10:18:44 PM
Blah...blah...blah...buncha hot air til someone can show everyone how to make even a small unit. Buncha BS.
BFG2k8... No moving parts, very high spikes. 16v in , 200v out. EM fields reach the center. Resonance @ 24k 8)
--giantkiller.
damn @gk,
that almost sounds like lion power!!! you go man!!!
lol
sam
-
please could someone post a video how he builds a tpu.
with best-results and simple-to-build configuration.
so every dummy+ can replicate it and go to show it to his physics teacher.
to impress unbelievers.
and more people will be able to experiment
all the videos are experiments with an already build tpu. how to build one?
Hello all,
as I have no time and a lot of other problems I just wanted to say this:
@Roberto and Gustav22
try frequencies in the range of MHz. 1 of the frequencies should be at around 1 - 2 MHZ. Maybe all of them??
Otto
PS: dont forget to rise the voltage to over 15kV!!
Imagine: 15kV or 20kV in miliamps and 3 tube oscillators working in the MHZ range with a plate current of say, 10mA and this 3 frequency mix lights a bulb?????
I DONT KNOW!!!!!
Im for the moment only a PC hero until I have solved my problems.
Quote from: shimondoodkin on February 27, 2008, 06:39:14 PM
please could someone post a video how he builds a tpu.
with best-results and simple-to-build configuration.
so every dummy+ can replicate it and go to show it to his physics teacher.
to impress unbelievers.
and more people will be able to experiment
all the videos are experiments with an already build tpu. how to build one?
@shimondoodkin
No one knows exactly how Steven Mark built his TPUs. However, based on a number of hints provided by Steven Mark, we have a good base to start from. Based on this information, several people in this forum have built some coils and have had some very interesting results with some of their experiments. Many of them have posted circuit schematics, wiring diagrams, information on how they wound their coils, and what they did to get the results. I suggest that you scan through the posts from EMdevices, otto, giantkiller, and others who have done great work, and posted their setups, and results. However, this information is scattered amongst several different topic threads, not just his one. If you are seriously considering building a TPU, please be careful, under the right conditions the voltage can become very high, possibly with enough current to kill. Remember, some of the people here have fried their control circuits, oscilloscopes, and signal analysers because the output voltage jumped up to hundreds of volts, and in some cases even thousands of volts which was more than the circuitry could handle. So please be careful ;).
Drossen
Quote from: ronotte on February 26, 2008, 04:32:39 AM
@ all,
perhaps it's time to restore this Otto's thread named: 'Steven Mark TPU' into his natural rails.
It may be challenging to know that:
:)
I HAVE OBTAINED & DOCUMENTED AND REPEATED MANY TIMES WHAT DOES APPEAR TO BE THE VERY INITIAL SM's 'WINDING-UP' TPU PROCESS - STAY TUNED
Roberto
@ Roberto
How does the document look ?
@ All
I need to get some equipment what type of scope should I get style and spec
and what other equipment do you recommend
Nick
Quote from: nickc44 on February 29, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: ronotte on February 26, 2008, 04:32:39 AM
@ all,
perhaps it's time to restore this Otto's thread named: 'Steven Mark TPU' into his natural rails.
It may be challenging to know that:
:)
I HAVE OBTAINED & DOCUMENTED AND REPEATED MANY TIMES WHAT DOES APPEAR TO BE THE VERY INITIAL SM's 'WINDING-UP' TPU PROCESS - STAY TUNED
Roberto
@ Roberto
How does the document look ?
@ All
I need to get some equipment what type of scope should I get style and spec
and what other equipment do you recommend
Nick
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-7-8-Color-25MHz-Oscilloscope-OWON-PDS5022-USB_W0QQitemZ350028885876QQihZ022QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-7-8-Color-25MHz-Oscilloscope-OWON-PDS5022-USB_W0QQitemZ350028885876QQihZ022QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Jason & I both have one of these. We are both very satisfied with the operation.
--giantkiller.
Thanks guys I have looked at a place in Mendon MA and it had one of two
Scopes that are not Color
This was less money than what shows will it work ?
Tektronix 2245 100 MHz, 4 Ch. Oscilloscope (2245)
Manufacturer: Tektronix Other Products
Mfg. Part #: 2245
Condition: Used
Our Price: $575.00
Tektronix 2245 100 MHz, 4 Ch. Oscilloscope (2245)
Also is a Generator worth having
HP Agilent 3336B 21 MHz Synthesizer Level Generator (3336B)
Manufacturer: HP Other Products
Mfg. Part #: 3336B
Condition: Used
List Price: $4,400.00
Our Price: $295.00
HP Agilent 3336B 21 MHz Synthesizer Level Generator (3336B)
Or is that a not worth having
Thanks
Nick
Hi all,
as previously scheduled I'm restructuring my Garage in order to be able to work better. Please be patience!
Roberto
Your wish is my command...
Some of these came off the previous site.
--giantkiller.
Hi All
This is a test Post I'm having problems with my PC
Otto
I will try this again it looks like the file size is too big
You had said check out the drawing that shows the hight sizing
it shows the hight at 44mm
The question is he raps it different than you ( or is it )
he raped the bottom ring first then bottom and middle and then bottom middle and top
I'm raping my TPU soon and would like the clarification
Thanks
Nick
@ Otto
I hope this comes through. This is your Drawing and I'm just looking to see if it is still a current
wire Diagram I know you have changed the number of turns so I'm looking at just the drawing
and its connections and configuration.
Thanks
Nick
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg68404.html#msg68404
Hello all,
@Nick
Im using 9 turns for every collector coil. Lamp wire.
My controls are 57 turns for each control coil, for now. Maybe later we need more but in this moment I dont know it exactly.
The picture you showed us is the side view of my TPU. As you see my bottom controls are wound around the bottom collector but the middle controls are wound around the bottom AND middle collectors....like the 3 stack.
Otto
@ Otto
Thanks for your responce
So as I see it ( In my pea brain ;D ) I'm seeing two possible configs and only one is Right so these are
the 2 Types I see..
Type A
Collector Coil 9 Turns Lampwire ( We have 3 of these Top Middle Bottom )
Top Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Middle Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Bottom Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Rapping all of these with a 2 Feedback/ 100 watt bulb cables of 256 Turns ( 24 AWG or 28 AWG )
This Is
not like your side view drawing but is it Correct ?
Type B ( This is what I see in your side view Drawing )
Collector Coil 9 Turns Lampwire ( 3 Coils )
Bottom Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Bottom and Middle Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Top Middle and Bottom Collector Coil will be rapped with Control Coil 57 Turns 24 AWG
Then Rapping all of these with a 2 Feedback/ 100 Watt Bulb cables of 256 Turns ( 24 AWG or 28 AWG )
This Is
more like your Drawing ( To me ) but is it Correct ?
1 Tell me if Type A or B is the way to rap my TPU and then any corrections to the one you choose.
2 Should the Feedback be 24 AWG or 28 AWG ( I need to order cable )
Thanks again
Nick
Quote from: otto on March 10, 2008, 02:09:13 AM
Hello all,
@Nick
I'm using 9 turns for every collector coil. Lamp wire.
My controls are 57 turns for each control coil, for now. Maybe later we need more but in this moment I dont know it exactly.
The picture you showed us is the side view of my TPU. As you see my bottom controls are wound around the bottom collector but the middle controls are wound around the bottom AND middle collectors....like the 3 stack.
Otto
We can no longer upload images or we will have to shrink them to a pathetic size!!!
Forum is going well isn't it? ::)
M.
Marco:
Upload to http://imageshack.us for free, then you can link to them.
Hey i don't want to register or fill in my e-mail so they can spam my inbox...
Stefan is just ignoring the problem.
I have sent him a PM about this more then once.
He just does not respond to it.
How's that for an admin...
Too bad because this once was a good place to communicate. :'(
M.
You don't need to register at imageshack, just browse, select file, upload. Then use the url from the bottom of the screen "direct link to image". Sorry new to board so don't know about any of the other stuff!
yes Marco
you are wright
that thing is so small when you blow it up it is all fuzzy and cant read it
can you e mail it to weri812@aol.com ? please
wer
XYZZY, PLUGH?
The cave is really closing? :o
--giantkiller.
Hello all,
@Nick
only the 3 stack.jpg is the right drawing and my hand drawn picture where we can see the side view is only what I did. It works fine.
1. all collectors are 9 turns of lamp wire
2. all PRIMARY control coils are 57 turns of AWG 24 wires
3. for the SECONDARY wires of the control coils I have no number of turns because Im not able in this moment to work on my TPU.
This secondary wires MUST give us a high voltage. The primaries and secondaries are connected like in the ECD or to say it better, like a ignition coil of a car, or...
Im using only AWG 24 wires because I have a lot of them. The diameter of the wires is not important.
I have to say that I builded my TPU with 57 turns but it would be better that everyone uses another number of turns so we can compare our results. I didnt say that 57 turns are a MUST!! Maybe more or less is a solution.
You have to play with the number of turns.
The 256 turns for a feedback coil are not needed in this moment. Forget this turns - coil(s).
In my hand drawing are only the primaries shown and the distances between the collectors and controls.
Otto
Quote from: -[marco]- on March 10, 2008, 02:40:22 PM
We can no longer upload images or we will have to shrink them to a pathetic size!!!
Forum is going well isn't it? ::)
M.
Well,Marco,
if you use the right tools like the free Irfanview.com
you can still generate a nice 1024x768 GIF or JPEG pictures that are less than
50 Kbytes !
If you use schematics or colored hand drawn pictures then use the GIF format and reduce the color deepth just to 16 colors,
that will reduce the amount of file size considerably.
Also I did now enable the download Manager for uploads.
There you can now upload 5 Mbytes big files over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl
Or just click in the left menu
Downloads
and then browse into the category
Pictures
General Documents and File
or
Movies
and then click at the right upper side the
Upload
text to upload your file.
Then you can link to this attachment via your posting.
This way I can differentiate between
attached small 50 Kbytes images directly attached in a posting
and a bigger file uploaded in the download manager.
This is then easier to handle for the backup.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
Okay it's working thanks :)
M.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get14 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get14)
Hi Marco,
nice diagram,
how do you think,that it is working and wired this way ?
What 3 input frequencies do you think must be used ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Marco: nice diagram also
Do you have pictures of actual unit or is this a design?
Hi,
The frequency's are dependent on the size of the coil.(circumference)
The FVAR are only variable frequency's to prevent the coil from accellerating any further, so these are not variable as to speed up the field.
It is similair to the feedback circuit in television where the local oscillator is being adjusted by the control unit.
The control unit COMPARES the signal from the local oscillator with the signal from the flyback, and when there is a mismatch it will adjust the frequency of the local oscillator to keep it on frequency.
It is also known as AFC, automatic phase control.
At this moment i am not able to make any pictures of my setup.
My phone is broken and i bought a more simple one without a cam.
M.
Maybe I've been a jerk in my past posts. I'm just having trouble understanding what in the world all the excitement and passion is about. The Steven Mark's videos were obvious hoaxes. There simply is nothing there and he's been proven to be a fraudster to boot. So, in light of this what has anyone got working. It just seems like a bunch of guys here that like to see their own posts. Please sum up the facts on where this project stands and if any goals have been reached. If this can't be done, perhaps Steven needs to find new software that will at least let those interested see the current project status. Who wants to read through thousands of nonsensical posts and missteps? This site needs to be more project management oriented. Otherwise, it's wasting a lot of folk's time.
10 brownie points goes to the first butt kisser that tells me I don't have to come here.
you have a choice. Join in with the search or come back next year. What did you expect to find a working OU device for $9.99?
9.99??? Why that's highway robbery. I just saw an infommerical selling one for 7.99 plus for a limited time I could get not one but two tpu shields in addition. :)
Great! But check the warranty. Could only be with CCW instructions and spin in different language
--giantkiller. Yep, mine is $19.95. Only comes in green.
GROAN................