Hi,
this was already mentioned in another thread,but as I have not yet seen
any english or German translation of the video narration,
please could somebody who understand japanese language give
us some explanation what was said over here ?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
http://www.haw-system.jp/English/indexE.html seems to show the english version.
This is very interesting, though it's not hydrogen on demand.
Here they are using a tank of compressed hydrogen and adding water along with the hydrogen directly into the combustion chamber.
However, this method does show you the virtues of water vapour going into the combustion chamber along with the H2 and O2 from standards high current electrolysers that heat up the water and/or pass through bubblers.
In the past, some people have tried very hard to stop this water vapour going into the engine for fear of rusting it up, but this now clearly indicates that the water vapour can enhance performance.
Yes very interesting, although it was not shown, if they really use additionally stored hydrogen from a compressed tank or if they additionally just generate the used hydrogen from the water via electrolysis...
Maybe the english translation was just too sloopy or incorrect.
At least they did only show, that the car was only filled up with water and nothing else... so they did not show any compressed hydrogen gas in a bottle...
I asked a friend of mine to have a look at this video. He is an engineer and he speaks both Japanese and English fluently. He had this to say:
QuoteOK. I watched it. It uses compressed hydrogen and when hydrogen is ignited, water mist is injected into the combustion chamber. The water vapor expands with the heat of burning hydrogen and pushes the piston. Exhaust is mainly steam and no CO2 at all.
The vehicle has given a permission by something similar to DOT to be operated on public streets. It'll be tested for the next two years and the concept will be evaluated. Development of entire system (i.e., passive and active safety mechanism for hydrogen engine) will be taking place upon successful completion of the evaluation.
Yes, I thought so.
Effectively a steam engine. This makes sense, because hydrogen by itself is too explosive as it has an extremely fast burn rate. By itself, I would expect hydrogen to quickly damage an engine, even blow a piston. Water will slow the burn time and absorb a lot of the energy from the ignited hydrogen turning to gaseous form and hence expanding as it does so.
This allows time for the piston to react and so creates far less stress on the engine.
There are things we should learn from this:
Pure hydrogen would quickly create a great amount of wear and tear on the engine.
Water vapour going ito our engine along with H2 and O2 is not necessarily a bad thing.
water to engine will increase the power up to 100 %
Pese
------------------
read this:
Performance and Technical information on carburetor jetting for all motorcycles.
Jetting considerations for motor performance factors
How do weather factors like altitude, temperature and humidity effect the jetting of a carburetor? Here are some simple rules that can help you fine tune the jetting to get the best performance from your motorcycle.
ALTITUDE
As you increase your altitude the octane requirement decreases 1-2 octane per 3000 feet elevation. This is because the density of the air is reduced or there is less air available for your motor to burn. The higher the altitude, the richer your motor will run, making it necessary to re-jet the motor in order to lean it out. The fuel volume remains the same and the air volume goes down. If you have a vacuum advance, as the altitude increases, the motor makes less vacuum and the air fuel ratio becomes richer due to the decreasing air to fuel volume.
TEMPERATURE
When the temperature goes up, the air density decreases, thus you have less air available for combustion and your air fuel ratio becomes richer. The same works in reverse. As the temperature goes down, you end up with more air per cubic foot, and without re-jetting your carburetor, the engine will run leaner.
AIR DENSITY
As the air density increases, your engine will lean out. As the air density goes down, the engine runs richer. Like driving up a mountain, at the top, the motor has less power because you have less air to burn.
HUMIDITY
When the humidity increases, octane requirements ease. The formula is something like... for every one gram of water increase per one kilogram of dry air the octane decreases by .25 to .35. WWII aviation engines used water injection and it worked well for a short time by cooling the cylinder temperature. As temperature goes back the effect goes away.
The bottom line is to make sure to pay very close attention to your jetting on cold, dry days with low humidity and when at sea level.
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Posted 30 December 2007 07:35 AM Hide Post
Yes, double is pretty close to the measured gains in mileage experienced by my machinist buddy on the 2 or 3 cars he did vapour carbs on.
Two tips:
1. Use a propane regulator for safety so you don't blow yourself to bits
2. Water vapour (steam) aspirated into the air intake will slow down those hot little gas vapour explosions into a nice manageable push that will maintain longevity to your engine parts. My friend who has done extensive personal testing said that 5% steam (by volume) works fine. I'm not talking about occasionally adding steam to your air intake, I mean while running on vapour, also add steam.
He started up normally (old style carb), then when the engine got hot, he used the heat to gassify (boil) the gasoline, feeding it into the carb and then cutting off the flow of liquid. When shutting down, he'd switch back to liquid gas then cut off the steam from the air intake and drive a few minutes to clear the water out.
I accept no liability for death, personal injury, or mechanical dammage relating to or arising from the info I've related here. My machininst friend is a very smart, mechanically experienced guy and knew how to safely boil gasoline without endangering himself or anyone else. While I believe that gasoline vapour is a great thing, it is potentially dangerous. If you proceed, do so cautiously, and only after thorough research into handling explosive gasses and expansion of flammable liquids into explosive gasses.
I've heard that in WW2, in Africa, a bunch of feds in black suits showed up and installed vapour carbs into US Sherman tanks to help fight Rommel. After Germany surrendered, the suits returned and removed the carbs.
No, I don't wear aluminum foil in my hat
-----------------------
Wasser + Treibstoff DEUTSCH
http://www.presstext.de/cms/index/opm/1412.html benzin wasser
http://www.uni-koeln.de/pi/i/2004.102.htm benzin + wasser = ergibt: mehr Energie
http://www.uni-protokolle.de/nachrichten/id/35893/ benzin wasser
http://www.innovations-report.de/html/bericht-30636.html benzin wasser
http://www.wtz.de/fuel-wat.htm
Versuch Benzin + 20 % Wasser.
Nissan Febr 2007.
Tankf?llung Benzin reicht 450km.
Mit 20 % Wasserzusatz wird die Reichweite auf 700km erh?ht . D.h. fast doppelt da ja
Gesamtmischung nur 80% Benzin enth?lt
Video hierzu:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7711785211600823269
So we still do not know, if the hydrogen is produced on demand onboard just from the water or is carried within the car in pressurized bottles...
It's not on-demand Harti.
It's compressed H2 in a gas cylinder most likely similar to LPG gas tanks - but stronger!
One of those stories that only tells half the tale, with the water side being hyped up to make it look amazing. Shame it didn't show the guy snorting H2 and adding that to the vehicle too!
Quote from: Farrah Day on February 06, 2008, 10:16:56 AM
It's not on-demand Harti.
It's compressed H2 in a gas cylinder most likely similar to LPG gas tanks - but stronger!
Where do you know that from?
Are you just guessing it or please provide a reference.
Many thanks.
No, I'm not guessing Harti.
It's just a matter of interpreting the info - it's all there on the video.
1. The video states that the vehicle runs on hydrogen and water (not just water and no mention of oxygen or hydroxy).
2. The video states that it runs on compressed hydrogen.
3. The video states that the vehicle does,150 miles or so, on a full tank of hydrogen.
If it was hydrogen-on-demand then the vehicle would be doing so many miles per tank of water, not per tank of hydrogen.
Perhaps a little wishful thinking Harti, eh!
I have to agree according to the way the video is worded the car does not make the hydrogen on demand. Although I would think that the car is big enough to be modified to do so. The problem with that I think would be the addition of more batteries, which in my opinion is not a good idea cuz they are hazardous to dispose of, hence negating the benfits of hydrogen, or HHO.
would this car be running on Hydrogen on demand?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLKExuHlQMQ
Eden
No.
It's using the relatively new hydrogen fuel cell to create electrical energy to power the electric drive motor.
It basically works by electrolysis in reverse. Where as electrolysis gives oxygen and hydrogen from water when you pass a current through it, this does the opposite. A special cell combines hydrogen (from a storage tank) with oxygen from the air to provide water... and electricity.
@Farrah Day,
so because they did not show the compressed hydrogen bottle and showing only refilling water, this video then seems to be misleading...
Well Harti, yes I would say it was somewhat misleading as the emphasis was on the water which is probably why you had your initial doubts, but I guess people will read into it what they to.
You have to agree it sounds a lot more impressive to say it runs on water, than it runs on hydrogen!
The marketing and hype will always emphasise the water to generate the interest. Add to this gullible, uneducated reporters and you can quickly build up a tremendous amount of free publicity for something that, in all truth, is nothing extraordinary.
I think that water could be fed into a standard hydrocarbon ICE's in the correct proportions to enhance efficiency, just like they did in WW2 aircraft engines. Have you ever noticed how you car seems more responsive on cold misty days when there is a lot of moisture in the air? I've also heard of people with blown head gaskets doing far more miles to the gallon with coolant leaking into their cylinders.
Interesting, but nothing to get over-excited about!
Maybe this is a good idea
to generate hydrogen or HHO on demand
and also use steam generated with it to
go into the ICE explosion chamber, so
then the steam will be heated by the HHO explosion
and will be used to propell the piston even more...
making the efficiency even higher...
Then you need to keep just the HHO electrolzer
at boiling temperates so that enough steam
will come out with the HHO gas...
Regards, Stefan.
Wouldn't it be better if you let liquid water, HHO and air get in?
HHO would cause rise in temperature expanding the air and boiling the water into steam instantaneously
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE
Very interesting indeed.
Somewhat similar to what United Nuclear is pushing.
However United seems to boast running on raw compressed Hydrogen.
They also emphasize that high compression / turbo charged engines are a no go with the
future conversion kits. Also diesel engines because of their high compression.
http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/
Understand that the internal combustion engine is essentially a steam engine. When you burn a hydrocarbon the two main byproducts are CO2 gas and superheated steam. It is the expansion of this steam that drives your engine. Adding water gives you more steam but cooler steam so there is some question as to which would be better since the expansive force of steam decreases rapidly with lower temperature. Although adding some water to an engine does reduce pre-ignition problems.
Farrah Day.........
QuoteBy itself, I would expect hydrogen to quickly damage an engine, even blow a piston. This allows time for the piston to react and so creates far less stress on the engine.
Pure hydrogen would quickly create a great amount of wear and tear on the engine.
Any thoughts on use of Hydrogen by itself in a Rotary Engine...?