Ha Ha, my mini Tesla works wonderfully !!!Ã, Ã, Ã,Â
(I even have the RF burns to prove it, the little devil is dangerous, It even cracked the light bulb after 20 seconds or so)
EM
Image Description:Ã,Â
Ã, 1)Ã, With flashÃ,Â
Ã, 2)Ã, With NO flash,
Ã, 3)Ã, Cracked neon due to heat or something, not sure.
Looks great EM,
what frequency and input power are you running it at about ?
Could you show some more zoom in scopeshots please
or a video about it ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
@EM
mini Tesla
Man you always put a smile on my face. 8)
C
Quote from: EMdevices on February 07, 2008, 12:07:38 AM
Ha Ha, my mini Tesla works wonderfully !!!
(I even have the RF burns to prove it, the little devil is dangerous, I even cracked the light bulb after 20 seconds or so)
EM
@EMdevices,
I'm of the opinion Nikola would have been proud of a mini prime mover like yours ;)
Any idea of the circuit power consumption before the fatal overload of your neon? Even a ball park figure would be helpful.
Cheers from The Toad Who Hops :)
So we're pretty much done attempting to DUPLICATE Dr Stifflers SEC eh?
For goodness sake, if you don't believe the man, just leave it be. He didn't come here selling stocks! It's cool that
you built a mini-Telsa coil EM, I'm proud of you, sniff sniff, and your electrical construction skill-set is awesome, but do you have any intention on measuring input power and output power? I mean really. I can fry things with cap banks too. Doesn't mean I debunked an SEC HYPOTHESIS either. Account for the frequency of oscillation mathematically and then measure it several ways. Account for the stage gains or losses mathematically and then correlate with measurements. Account for the shifts in circuit operation due to insertion impedances, such as scope probes or adjustments in the Litz wire secondary in relation to the exciter, and show how to minimize these or explain the causes. There are many constructive activities to be done in the "attempts at faithful reproduction" Show off the skills you have but please don't patronize. It is childish at best and downright rude at worst!
Is that "suppozzzzzed" to be a reproduction of the SEC we are attempting to explore here? Please post measurements of the end to end system efficiency and the evidence that this circuit is operating exactly the same as an SEC driver. Otherwise the Tesla forums are a perfect place for Tesla coils. There may be similarities between the two! Post your circuit schematic and the comparative analysis that provides the coorelation! Are the waveforms showing the same circuit operation? They may have no more in common than the copper wire! You may be right! You may be wrong! But you, and the rest of us will never know unless Doc's circuit is reproduced EXACTLY and then carefully pulled apart through analysis and testing. If we are going to act like the "US socialist media party" and go after sensationalism, we're screwed!!!!!!
(Apples) X (Oranges) = (Vote for Hillary) / (the cost of Hashish in Illisheim)^1/2...->....Jesus. LOL :-* .........ABSURD........... : :) .......Jim
@EMdevices,
Notice where the crack happens?
It looks like the place where the wave has to change direction. Is that true? Or is that where the sent and reflected waves meet? I can't be sure from the photo.
Bep
@EMdevides,
Your mini Tesla coil is very interesting. I think it deserves it's own thread.
I vote for a thread for the "mini" tesla coil.
Ben K4ZEP
thanks for the comments guys. Here's more info.
Frequency:
I perfected my Collpits oscillator and achieved a milestone for my breadboard, up to 25 MHz.
Previously I had been around 1 MHz, but with some carefull observations and tweaking I got it fine tuned so it will oscillate that high. For those versed in the RF arts, stray capacitance, parasitic component capacitance/inductance and other reactances we don't normaly consider at lower frequencies, start to attenuate the high frequency signals and it puts a stop to oscillation (kills the gain of the feedback loop, etc..) if you don't know what you're doing. The breadboards are notorius for that with the many embeded strips of metal. Anyhow, that's my operating frequency, although, I was surprised to see so many different harmonics, just like Doc Stifflers pickup probe. If the Tesla is not connected to the Collpits oscillator the waveform is a beautiful sine, but once it gets connected all hell breaks loose.
Power in/out:
I did not have the time to measure power in (or out) last night, I was so excited when that neon lighted up, I went for my camera took the two photos, and then POP !!! the lightbulb busted in 10 or 20 seconds. Good thing I took the photos when I did. I think the breakage happend due to heat expansion of the glass, since it was constrained by the roll of electrical tape, and stress developed at the joint. I had to push in the bulb a bit harder than I wanted too in the tape roll, it was almost the same diameter but you know the tape can stretch a bit. Anyway, I'll have to take apart another busted bulb (and I have another one that probably fried it's electronics just like this one had)
Further Comments:
I'll post a circuit diagram later when I get home. I know from memory what I did but I want to be sure. I'm using a mosfet attached to the black square heat sink that the tesla coil sits on, and I use this as the output stage. Then the signal is generated by my breadboard and you see on it a golden coil that's upright, that's the main inductance that sets the frequency, and I can slide a ferrite rod through it and fine tune the coil even more, just like Tesla's magical box that powered his electric car (he pushed in a few iron rods to tune his internal oscillators)
So is this related to Dr Stiffler? I believe it is. Like I said before his circuit resonates the secondary coil and that's what Tesla did. Size realy doesn't change things, you just increase the frequency to compensate. Anybody that has played around with Tesla coils and resonance will reconginze what Dr Stiffler is doing. I admire his reseach and I believe he found a new way to excite the seconday resonant coil, and like I mentioned before it's through capacitance rather then inductance. I will be trying that excitation method in the near future on this mini Tesla coil. It could make for a cleaner and easier setup. So its like talking about two different driveing methods of the same thing, the same coil. Yes they are different if we get down to the details, but as far as energy it's the same phenomena.
If you guys want, we can move it all to another thread. I just placed it here since it was Dr Stiffler that pulled me back into this line of research, and yes I am making a point that you can get lots of power from RESONANCE of a LITTLE coil, but we will have to have some quantitative mesurements that will be coming soon.
EM
P.S. This part of the thread was moved from the Dr.Stiffler thread to over here.
Here's a circuit diagram, I drew it from memory, but I think it's correct, if it's not I'll modify it later.
thanks for moving the postings over here, Stefan.
EM
Oba, another device to play. We need toys here for grown ups ;D
Good job EMdevices.
Fausto.
@Em devices
I don't know what direction your going to steer this thread, by the way awesome info about the breadboards and your osc speed.. 25 meg is a bit more to play with.
.. Im all sorts of excited here..
Can we make Little wireless power links.. please.. you now how cool this would be even if you start another side thread for just the resonate power transfer..
The colpits oscillators high speed may be a great addition to a compact little package :) Whether you want a resonate power link or a telecom device .. lets start looking at possibilities...
Low latency video transmission eg no latency ! Multiplexed Optical data transfer in to copper and back out again... Tesla only dreamed of the ss stuff we have. Think of em devices little tesla coil and then think of a data communication device that could be used within range of the base station or other one like itself. Yet have the capability to receive power and "intelligent signals" as our hero said himself.. I started endeavoring in electronics as a kid and ended up being a computer guy now in older years. If the infrastructure had been built to his standards. The possibilities would have been endless but not utilized fully by any stretch of the matter in the begining of the 20 century. Now we have the electronics he dreamed of people having in his time.. Making it possible to fulfill the dream.
Tell me if this is an avenue that you would be willing to go down with your mini tesla. So i dont clutter your thread.
and if its not something on the top of your list, would you mind if your design was used for that purpose in a thread here.. :) Thanks again man.
Take care
Joe
Hi EM,
many thanks for thecircuit diagram.
Maybe you can later still add the component values
whenyou are again at home from work.
Did you connect the Fluorescent bulb from the high voltage
ouput to ground or to somewhere else or just with the one
wire high voltage output ?
I think the higher the voltage is at the flueorescent tube
the better they light up.
But they don?t need much current for that.
They just love high voltage to shine bright, so the gas
is almost a plasma.
Well done.
Do you need to tune the driver frequency to
hit the resonance of your secondary high voltage Tesla style coil ?
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Joe, we can explore wireless power here, no problem.Ã, I was thinking of doing that once I had a good resonator.Ã, I'll just build another one just like it and try to receive with it.
Stefan,Ã, the neonbulb was connected to just the high tension wire.Ã, the other leads were just left open, they're pretty short anyway.Ã, Ã, Right now the frequency is almost close to ideal, but I've tried to fine tune with the ferrite and looking at the scope I can build things up even higher, but for the photos, it worked ok where it was at.Ã, You're right about these florescent tubes, they sure love the high voltage, not sure what the current is, but the resistance drops once it's ionized, that much I know.Ã, Exact measurements will of course have to be done, and I'll get to them eventualy.
EMÃ,Â
Here's a close up of the setup, and the scope shot.
Looking at the scope shot I just realized I'm driving higher modes with the 20 MHz, because the lower main frequency seems to be 5 MHz. Geez, I was striving for higher and higher frequency and I didn't have too. I really need to invest in a decent function generator so I can do rapid testing. Anyway, I'll be modifying things a bit and I'm hoping to mount everything on a PCB. Notice I added the AV plug, gearing up for some fun experiments.
EM
Great work EMdevices (https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phonecotech.com%2FOverU%2FSmile%2Fsmiley-notworthy.gif&hash=b84f43fd9483173aa87160b212f42d264450c915)
The Wireless Energy research from MIT is interesting. Here is a cropped image from the bottom of the following document:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phonecotech.com%2FOverU%2FeRec.gif&hash=9bf2ef7444081b76aa24be3fc5684e6f4a449861)
http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/MIT_WiTricity_Press_Release.pdf (http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/MIT_WiTricity_Press_Release.pdf)
I think this was posted before but couldn't find it. What attracted me to their Wireless Energy research was this document:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/317/5834/83 (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/317/5834/83) which goes into great detail in self-resonant coils.
Their first reference is Tesla's Wardenclyffe patent. Funny thing is, unlike MIT's work, Professor Meyl's demo verifies Telsa in that it receives more energy than it transmits.
I guess that is what happens when your in the business of selling IP. ;D
Take care.
Smart ass'ed comment quota now satisfied. :)
nap
Very interesting.
Here is the full picture from the PDF file enclosed.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of the transmitter and coil? Neither one of the coils shown are the transmitter. The one on the left might be called a re-transmitter.
thanks for the links, slapper
I now understand what they're doing a bit more.Ã, Did you guys see their diagram in the pdf file?Ã, The transmitter is just one loop of wire like they say in the article.Ã, What's interesting here is that the coils are not connected to anything, they're just resonators at a certain operating frequency and bridge the gap with resonant energy.Ã, You then just bring in your transmiter and receiver loops close to the resonators, and they behave as if they're very close together and coupled.Ã, I like the theory they present.Ã, This is close to Tesla coils. The one turn loops are like the primary (or pancake) coils driving the tesla secondary coil, and the resonator multi turn coils play the part of the secondary in the tesla coil.
EM
@EmDevices
I am weary of the "mit" version they never let too many secrets out to the public.... It may work but its not the package were looking for ;) One interesting thing I think i see there is bare wire. It looks like they just wrapped cloth or something at the tops to keep the spirals seperate. that may be something to note.. dunno if its important but its kind of out of place for the design
Joe
Yes, EM, Witricity looks exactly like 2 Tesla coils in resonance,the second backwards, receiving the energy.
BTW, what power rating did your Flourorescent bulb have ? 11 Watts and how bright was it really ? Modern CMos Digital cameras are mostly more sensitive than the human eye to this light, so they expose the picture more bightly.
Did you have less than 500 milliAmps of input current from your battery pack ? Was it around 9 to 12 Volts supply voltage ?
Many thanks.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 08, 2008, 12:46:01 PM
thanks for the links, slapper
I now understand what they're doing a bit more. Did you guys see their diagram in the pdf file? The transmitter is just one loop of wire like they say in the article. What's interesting here is that the coils are not connected to anything, they're just resonators at a certain operating frequency and bridge the gap with resonant energy. You then just bring in your transmiter and receiver loops close to the resonators, and they behave as if they're very close together and coupled. I like the theory they present. This is close to Tesla coils. The one turn loops are like the primary (or pancake) coils driving the tesla secondary coil, and the resonator multi turn coils play the part of the secondary in the tesla coil.
EM
EM, looks kinda like a TPU doesn't it???
control coils are resonator coils, collectors are theose single loops, the transmitter could be the small torrid??? Might be a reach....
sorry about the off topic post but I couldn't help it. Please post the component values for the mini tesla coil, I would like to build a small toy as well, if nothing than to get a bit of use out of those old florescent tubes. :)
BTW, what did you use for the form for the upright coil? looks like a small btit of PVC.
The compact florescent bulb I was using was rated at 15 watts.Ã, Ã, It was just as bright as when operated from the grid electricity.Ã, Ã, Like I was mentioning, I didn't get enough time to measure any input power before the glass broke. I haven't cut up another one yet but I will soon.Ã, Ã, Last night I tried to measure the amps from the battery and my digital meter was flaking out, it's all the RF that screwes it up.Ã, I'm working on setting up for some decent measurements once I transfer everything to a PCB, and I'll put in lots of RF chocks and capacitors to get good readings.Ã, The voltage was about 10 volts (8 AAA each of about 1.27 Volts or so)
EM
P.S.Ã, Carl, the bias resistors need to fit your particular transistor,Ã, I'm not sure what mine is, I just have a box full of transistors, it's an NPN that much I know, and you tweek the resitor values to set the correct voltage.Ã, On the Collpits I'm using 10 K resistors, on the MOSFETÃ, 10K upper and 1.5K bottom, seems to work ok, but I'll be impelementing the circuit with a variable potentiomenter for more control.Ã, Ã, The form is a small plastic tube container with a lid, that was used for some drinks (Fizz pop, I believe), but you can use other plastic or glass type of materials.Ã, I put a hole in the lid and put a screw from the inside and attached the bottom wire to it, then I just snapped the tube into the lid, or cap.
Hi EM, you only can use shielded analog meters for these measurements, and yes be sure to use lots of chokes and caps as low pass filters before them and put them at least 3 Meters away from the Tesla coil, otherwise it will jamm the meters...
Good luck.
Quote from: EMdevices on February 08, 2008, 01:15:15 PM
P.S. Carl, the bias resistors need to fit your particular transistor, I'm not sure what mine is, I just have a box full of transistors, it's an NPN that much I know, and you tweek the resitor values to set the correct voltage. On the Collpits I'm using 10 K resistors, on the MOSFET 10K upper and 1.5K bottom, seems to work ok, but I'll be impelementing the circuit with a variable potentiomenter for more control. The form is a small plastic tube container with a lid, that was used for some drinks (Fizz pop, I believe), but you can use other plastic or glass type of materials. I put a hole in the lid and put a screw from the inside and attached the bottom wire to it, then I just snapped the tube into the lid, or cap.
@EM,
cool, I have quite a few transistors and various resistors and caps (from my TV shop days), I will just throw one together this weekend. I don't know if I have any Mosfets left??? gotta look.
I think I might use a plastic cigar tube for the former. I still have plenty of magnet wire left from my TPU supplies.
Time to blow some Sh*t up!!! lol
Here's a video of the miniTesla doing wireless lighting.
EM
Very nice video EM,
but you are holding the bulb with your hand,
so there is the capacitance of your body, where the RF can flow to.
Does it also light up this big, if you put the fl light bulb just aside the coil ?
How bright does it get, when you directly connect the upper coil wire to
one pin of the bulb ?
Many thanks.
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 08, 2008, 01:25:09 PM
Hi EM, you only can use shielded analog meters for these measurements, and yes be sure to use lots of chokes and caps as low pass filters before them and put them at least 3 Meters away from the Tesla coil, otherwise it will jamm the meters...
Good luck.
I very much have to disagree with this advice, chokes (mostly inductors) and caps will ruin your resonance. This means you will have to re adjust your resonant circuit, the addition of these items will destroy what it is you are trying to accomplish. A better idea, would be to figure out how you could build a resonant load, that was a harmonic of the generator, say a resonant motor, or light bulb (Tesla did resonant light bulbs).
Remember, if you strike a tuning fork in the vicinity of other tuned forks, the power multiplies. dont dampen the load, you wont read anything. Perhaps a new measuring system is in need.
Hi Stefan, what's interesting is that my hand capacitance is really not playing that big a role as I thought. I held the bulb with plastic material and it still lit up pretty good. When I move my hand on one of the glass coils, it seems to attract the plasma just a bit more, but really I was surprised my body's capacitance did not play a bigger role. Most of the energy seems to be close to the coil and that's where it lights up.
I just managed to cut open the plastic bottom off this used neon (and I say used because it's a bit black inside an I replaced it since the lighting was fading from its original brightness) and when I touched directly to the neon wires, it lit up pretty good. Not quite as bright as in the previous pictures but pretty close. (notice this new bulb is a 10 W type with fewer glass spirals, the other was 15 watts or so, and had more glass spirals)
Anyway, I though this was awesome to show. Wireless lighting of bulbs due to intense RF fields was first shown by Tesla and it's so awe inspiring to see it. Besides all these fun things, I'm really hoping to investigate if there is any power increase of sorts and try to optimize the coil.
EM
P.S. I see what your saying armagdn03, and it could be like you say to a certain extent. For example the capacitors that short the RF in the colpitts portion need to be high in capacitance else they detune. I tried a choke in series with the battery and it worked quite nicely. Everything needs to be done in a wise manner and it will work. As I see it, the Input filter should be easy. The output filter and converting to DC (which is what I want to do) is another matter. I have gained some inspiration on how to match the load by looking how these compact florescent lights do it. they don't connect the load across the whole output, but use a capacitor voltage divider and connect it across the smaller capacitor, so probably it sees 25 % of the full voltage.
Quote from: plengo on February 07, 2008, 03:28:06 PM
Oba, another device to play. We need toys here for grown ups ;D
Good job EMdevices.
Fausto.
@EMDevice,
Excellent investigative work. I'd been put off by the hugh tesla coils. Yours just fits my bill.
So, how's the circuit board coming along? Any chance of sharing the cap and resistor values of your circuit? I need my "fix" i.e. make toys.... :-) ;D
Cheers, cp
@EMDevices and all,
What happens if I use an aluminium tube instead of plastic to wind the coil? I have some Redoxon vitamin tablet tubes and I'm thinking of using that instead of plastic pipe.
Cheers, cp
Hi sanmankl,
I'm not sure if an aluminum tube will work the same, since it's conductive and the capacitance will change your circuits operating parameters, voltage will not build up like it should.
For the colpitts oscillator part of the circuit, look at the photo.Ã, See the two small green capacitors?Ã, I don't have a LCR meter so I don't know what values thos things are, but if you have a box of capacitors, like I do, just try different values.Ã, The coupling capacitors are not critical, they just need to have a larger capacitance then those two green ones.Ã, The resistors are the same for the colpits 10K and 10KÃ, so the bias point is V_bat/2, so it's biased at the midpoint to allow for maximum swing.Ã, The mosfet has 10K and 1.5K to bias it lower in voltage.Ã, Just play around and you'll get it.Ã, The trickier part is the colpitts, if you got that to oscillate, you're ready for some fun.
EM
Update:
I made a power capturing board to test the filtering from the AV plug.
Very interesting results, but kind of discouraging. I added one LED and the voltage before the resistors and diodes was approx 2.5 volts DC, with a ripple of 1 V AC getting past the filtering.
When I added a second diode, the voltage went to 5 volts DC.
This almost shows that the DC current is almost nonexistent, and it's the AC voltage and current that really drives the LEDs. (since there is no voltage drop across the resistors and we just see the forward bias voltage of the LEDs) I also connected a small screwdriver to one of the legs of the LEDs and it lit up so good and bright, so this also shows it's the AC that drives it.
Here's the pictures. Notice I also have a compact neon leaning against the tesla coil and it's lit pretty good. There are no wire connections to it, it's just lit because it's in the RF fields.
EM