I see a common thread amongst the devices working with electromagnetics. Most of them are getting around Lenz's law. If you put a permanent magnet on say a child's swing set. Then on the ground under the swing you put a coil with high inductance. Then we get the swing going. As the swing passes over the coil the coil experiences a magnetic field flux change. According to Lenz's law this will induce a current whose magnetic field will counter the change in magnetic flux. The big question is when? If the reactance of the coil is such that the swing is way past the coil when the current flows what drag will it effect on the swing momentum? The seeming overunity comes from the electron intrinsic energy. Physicists describe the electron as a spherical standing wave. If we upset this resonance then we gain energy that was being stored in the standing wave. Nature is quick to restore the resonance of the electron and we are back in business.
Hi,
Depends when excatly you draw current from the coil.
Also with bigger coils you could use the large RL time constant
so you might have almost 90 degrees phase shift between current and voltage.
Maybe you can use this in your favour somehow.
If you know, how, please post.
Many thanks.
The current could charge a capacitor (gated through a diode) and be drawn off as needed by a load. It could also be the primary current in a current transformer. What I see is an alternator whose load current doesn't flow until the field pole has already gone by. Or a magnetic field flux change that is induced by radiated energy. The resultant voltage rise creating a countering magnetic field but either too late or too far away to effect the prime mover. In other words time shifting or phasing the counter magnetic field out of the picture. The energy is stored in the coil and released when it effects the magnetic pulse generator the least.
Quote from: sparks on February 21, 2008, 02:33:52 PM
I see a common thread amongst the devices working with electromagnetics. Most of them are getting around Lenz's law. If you put a permanent magnet on say a child's swing set. Then on the ground under the swing you put a coil with high inductance. Then we get the swing going. As the swing passes over the coil the coil experiences a magnetic field flux change. According to Lenz's law this will induce a current whose magnetic field will counter the change in magnetic flux. The big question is when? If the reactance of the coil is such that the swing is way past the coil when the current flows what drag will it effect on the swing momentum? The seeming overunity comes from the electron intrinsic energy. Physicists describe the electron as a spherical standing wave. If we upset this resonance then we gain energy that was being stored in the standing wave. Nature is quick to restore the resonance of the electron and we are back in business.
you got me thinking about swinging so i Googled it and got this
An improved swinging type generator for use in automatic wrist watches is disclosed. It contains: (a) a base with a center shaft hole, (b) a stator mounted on the base containing at least one layer of ring-shaped coil plate having at least one periodic-wave-shaped induction coil arranged on and along a circumference of the ring-shaped coil plate; (c) an unbalanced-and-weighted swinging magnetic rotor having a central rotary shape. The rotary shaft is mounted in the shaft hole of the base, and the unbalanced-and-weighted swinging magnetic rotor includes a magnetic ring having a plurality of magnets arranged in a head-to-tail manner along a circumference of the magnetic ring. In a preferred embodiment the induction coil has the shape of a multiple-cycle square-wave, and the angle of the square wave equals the magnetic angle, which is the angle formed between half of the arc length of an individual magnet of the magnetic ring and the center of the shaft hole, so as to maximize the electro-motive force that can be generated. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5684761.html (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5684761.html)
pc
powercat, that was a great find and I found a bit more about it but I would like to see some pictures and or drawings.
The next link is what I could find.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5684761.html
To see the drawings you may either register at the link you gave or use this link where you can freely download any US patents in PDF file format, no need to register: http://www.pat2pdf.org/
Gyula
Thank you gyulasun and the following link is what I found.
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat5684761.pdf
nice work nightlife and gyulasun
i wonder what Sparks thinks
i did not find much on swinging generator but on pendulum generator got this http://members.aol.com/ekpland/html/pcespend.htm (http://members.aol.com/ekpland/html/pcespend.htm)
videos as-well as drawings.
and this http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Milkovic-Berrett_Secondary_Oscillator_Generator)
and Bill Mehess has invented a system in which a clock pendulum mechanism swings magnets into coils, allegedly generating enough electricity to recharge the clock spring as well as power other devices http://pesn.com/2007/03/24/9500464_BillMahess_pendulum_clock_generator (http://pesn.com/2007/03/24/9500464_BillMahess_pendulum_clock_generator)/
pc
Nice find again powercat. Bill Mehess's generator has really got my attention and I will be researching his concept a bit more.
Thanks again.
Google patents is great:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=1vcmAAAAEBAJ&dq=5684761
http://www.forgotten-genius.com/03c198996114b5803/../downloads/magneticimulsemotor.wmv
Some are not so so lucky to speak Spanish, rough translation "some might confuse this for a motor, this is not the case, if you are observant" there are patents covering this and are shown in Lindemanns motor secrets movie and other places.................
I was just using the analogy of the pendulum generator and didn't realize this was a working configuration. What I was examining was the possiblity of delaying the counter-magnetic field of the coil current so that when it was propogated it would not interact with the instigating magnetic field. In other words storing the power resulting from the magnetic field change in the coil and drawing it out of phase so it's resultant magfield does not result in dragging down the prime mover.
I believe the power of magnetic inducement comes from the electron itself. I view the atom as a potential energy field. As the magnetic field changes within the atom the electrical charge carriers (in this case the electron) will adjust their orbit to the changing magnetic field.. (MRI machines create such a strong magnetic field change the protons of hydrogen atoms emit radio frequency energy trying to adjust to the new magnetic field) Once the magnetic field stabilizes the electron orbit returns to an orbit that is controlled by the neucleus. For an analogy say a giant bar magnet from outerspace comes whizzing by the Earth. The Earth's intrinsic magnetic field would interact with the magnet and Earth would have a new orbit for a while running from and chasing the invader magnet. Now say the magnet comes up and starts orbiting the sun along with the Earth. The sun gravity and the momentum of the Earth would predominate and Earth's orbit would be restored in the presence of an increased magnetic flux. The point is the movement of the Earth into a new orbit came from the energy of the Earth.
It is well known that magnetic fields determine the movement of charge carriers. So a changing magnetic field will change electron orbitals. If the atom is viewed as a standing potential energy field then induced current is a product of introduction of a disresonant influence into it's field. The field releasing or absorbing energy to return to resonance.
Can you can "shift" the drag influence of the coil until after the prime mover by delaying the draw of power from the coils? The prime mover passing the coil creates the charge which in turn creates the field in the coil - not the act of drawing power from the coil?
The idea of reducing coil drag on the passing "rotor" magnets would be useful. What would introducing a secondary magnetic field on the opposite side of the coil - with say a stationary perm. mag - do? Reduce voltage in the coil relative to drag?
I've never considered improving efficiency of this aspect of a generator. Interesting....
Have you come with idea/solutions?
maybe no drag but its very small
Exotic material keeps frustrated electrons flipping
Magnetic, temperature and structural studies have yielded new insights on the material sodium iridium oxide
http://www.rikenresearch.riken.jp/research/373/ (http://www.rikenresearch.riken.jp/research/373/)
pc
@capthook
I remember testing ac powerplants and generators. I would excite the rotating field circuit and read the voltmeter on the output windings and it would be at full voltage. Then I would connect the load windings to the load resistors and that throttle would open up. I thought there might be a time difference between voltage and drag and most of the drag was due to the current pull :P. .
pc - thanks for the link
"Exotic material keeps frustrated electrons flipping
Magnetic, temperature and structural studies have yielded new insights on the material sodium iridium oxide"
"As electrons spin, they generate a magnetic field which can point ?up? or ?down?. Within solid materials, an electron will generally try to adopt the opposite spin orientation to its neighbor, just as two bar magnets will flip around so that north and south poles line up next to each other....But in certain materials, the arrangement of atoms can make it impossible for the electrons to line up with all of their neighbors, and they are said to be ?frustrated?."
8 February 2008"
Amazing how scientific discoveries seem to continue to escalate - the more you know - the more you learn etc. And to think we only know a portion of the 5% of the observable universe (half maybe? ha - not even?) What will the other 95% (dark matter/energy etc) bring us? And how many "laws" will we be adding to the list of ones proved wrong in the past?!?
In total though - to generate EMF requires the introduction of a magnetic field. The current in the coil will create its own magnetic field. Thus - if we try in any way to reduce the effect of ANY of the fields (to reduce drag) we will correspondingly reduce EMF?
Could a pulsed coil's EMF, used to fire a magnet, be used to power another coil to fire another magnet and that coils EMF to power the next?
Is the EMF created at the same time as the coil is powered or right after the power is shut off?
And if it is created after the power is shut off, then couldn't the EMF be used to continue the power flow making it a continuous power flow unlike the pulsed power flow it is being powered by?