I have just finished my Smacks Booster and find that once it warms up it gets very power hungry. It works great but it took out a 30a fuse.
I have been reading and I have not found one simple PWM I can make in a few hours to keep the unit under control.
SO you tek guys help me out here. I need to make this PWM ASAP using radio shack parts.
Where can I get a drawing? I do not want more hten 15amps to this thing.
Good luck building one thru radio shack. Your better off getting parts from digikey online. At least that way you have a good chance of getting all the parts you need. Chemelec over at oupower seems to have some decent circuits I have used em with success so far. I am now in process of seeing if he will make me a single board with all the circuits I need from him. I know he can supply you with the PCB's but I am still in process of discussing custom boards.
I just got parts in front DK for the EFIE. Only problem is the circuit was designed for 2 O2 sensors and I have 3 in my car.
But again I need something for this weekends install and the later build up a complete box for both the EFIE and the PWM
People say the one behind the catalytic converter can be ignored. It only moitors the performance of the converter.
Ok now what about a regulator or PWM to stop the excessive drain.
I talked to Gary today and he is not going to be supplying the EFIE's much longer. He will however keep supplying the simple PWM circuit he has since those are used for controling DC motors as well. Of course that don't mean that if you have the talent to make an electronics board that you can't use the schematics and make your own.
this is what i use to control my cell.
http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581
Quote from: readyakira on March 07, 2008, 04:47:12 PM
I talked to Gary today and he is not going to be supplying the EFIE's much longer. He will however keep supplying the simple PWM circuit he has since those are used for controling DC motors as well. Of course that don't mean that if you have the talent to make an electronics board that you can't use the schematics and make your own.
I have the parts to build th EFIE already. It will not make a difference if I do not have a PWM to run the unit. WHy will he no longer make the EFIE?
Quote from: mv122 on March 07, 2008, 06:32:46 PM
this is what i use to control my cell.
http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581
How long have you been using it. It looks like what I am needing so I just may order it.
Thanks.
for a little over a week with no problems
I think he had alot of children expecting outrageous gains and they either did not install and use it correctly or had no idea what they could actually expect to get for savings in reality. So after alot of complaints he decided it is not worth his time. That combined with the fact I don't think he actually likes the idea of fooling the computer in a car like that since you could easily screw an engine up doing something like that not knowing what you are doing.
Do any of you know if an oxyisolator will do the same thing as curcuit to control the computer? they are sure a lot cheaper and easyer mto install
Rickter
RTS regarding your amperage draw I believe smack talks about limiting that in the electrolyte while tuning cell for max hydroxy min amps/heat. instead of pulsing on off on off etc.to lower amps /hydroxy production tune the cell, your electrolyte sounds to strong Chet
Quote from: ramset on March 08, 2008, 10:30:45 AM
RTS regarding your amperage draw I believe smack talks about limiting that in the electrolyte while tuning cell for max hydroxy min amps/heat. instead of pulsing on off on off etc.to lower amps /hydroxy production tune the cell, your electrolyte sounds to strong Chet
Thanks I am on that today. But still want to regulate the entire unit.
Need to get amp new meter first
Strongly recommend you put an amp meter in sight just to monitor your cell for max efficiency and a little safety Please explain why you want to pulse a smack cell
RTS sorry I was Interrupted by some visitors I;m not being a wise guy just trying to understand mainly because Im not sure how the amp gauge will work in series with a pulsing device Chet
I Want to regulate the entire unit. For maximum efficiency
Quote from: ramset on March 08, 2008, 11:41:02 AM
RTS sorry I was Interrupted by some visitors I;m not being a wise guy just trying to understand mainly because Im not sure how the amp gauge will work in series with a pulsing device Chet
This is the first cell I have built. I will be using it in conjunction with amp meter and for study of efficiency
RTS sweet!!! Im curious to see your results with pwm thanks Chet
Well got the meter on it last night. Cold it pegged 15amps. I did not give it a chance to warm it up. I diluted it 3x?s and was able to get it down to 5amps cold. After 15min running it now reads 13.3amps.
RTS according to Smack as I recall with his soup recipe your readings are not lining up of course all water is different have you started process with distilled water or tap [unknown] water sorry I have to go look at some machines will be back later Chet
Quote from: ramset on March 09, 2008, 11:04:37 AM
RTS according to Smack as I recall with his soup recipe your readings are not lining up of course all water is different have you started process with distilled water or tap [unknown] water sorry I have to go look at some machines will be back later Chet
The electrolyte was way too strong. I diluted it a ton and It can down. At the moment I am using tap water. This is not an exact replica of smacks just used his as a model. My container is stainless steel and grounded. It is not my final design but just the beginning.
Well I have had the cell running in the 2002 Blazer for a week. I went from 18-18.5mpg to 20.65mpg without the EFIE mod. This is on a 4.3liter engine. My first container had allot of problems, Vacuum leaks, shorts and finally the plastic lid cracked. I went with a PVC container that is air tight. It stands about 14? height and 4? diameter. I am working on new plates to put into it. 12? height with 10 total plates. Spaced at .09 apart. I also vented the HHO line into the PCV vacuum line. There is a very strong vacuum there but once I had a seal on the HHO container everything has been much better. Will give a new update when these plates are done with pics.
Quote from: ramset on March 08, 2008, 11:41:02 AM
RTS sorry I was Interrupted by some visitors I;m not being a wise guy just trying to understand mainly because Im not sure how the amp gauge will work in series with a pulsing device Chet
Can you use "controllers from (old) battery drilling machines ?
Somes work up to 10 Amp 12 18 and 24 volts.
I work with tham for other app?ications very fine , cheap , small and iniversal usefull
Pese
Quote from: pese on March 16, 2008, 06:07:13 AM
Quote from: ramset on March 08, 2008, 11:41:02 AM
RTS sorry I was Interrupted by some visitors I;m not being a wise guy just trying to understand mainly because Im not sure how the amp gauge will work in series with a pulsing device Chet
Can you use "controllers from (old) battery drilling machines ?
Somes work up to 10 Amp 12 18 and 24 volts.
I work with tham for other app?ications very fine , cheap , small and iniversal usefull
Pese
Hi Gustav
Thats thrue,I use such Motor and Controler to adjust the satellite dish
helmut
Very interesting idea on the older bat drills Gents 10 amps with RTS right now could be a problem more importantly RTS do you have a flashback device installed {bubbler /scrubber]? Chet
Also are you aware of the put your out put hose in a pail of water inside of a one litre empty soda bottle and time how long it takes to fill the bottle as you let it rise from the pail this will give you an idea of how much gas you are producing per minute do this out side very carefully NEVER near an ignition source it is a very usefull bechmark for your experiments Chet
Quote from: ramset on March 16, 2008, 12:09:48 PM
Also are you aware of the put your out put hose in a pail of water inside of a one litre empty soda bottle and time how long it takes to fill the bottle as you let it rise from the pail this will give you an idea of how much gas you are producing per minute do this out side very carefully NEVER near an ignition source it is a very usefull bechmark for your experiments Chet
burn it directly on the source.
so you can als "see" the efficence to show the "flame"
Not mix this gas with the air in your "labor".
You can worf first (and cheap) with the 10 amp devices.
If all work you can find stronger devices on the marked.
I think the devices for modell-motor-boats can do 2 times more
Gustav Pese
@Helmut
also an good idea.
If you stick the satellit mirror wit hundred of small 1cm mirrors.
you can produce "free-thermo-power"
water to vapor . vapor to air-pressure or to heat.
aeir pressure to "work with them , also to drive an generator with them ..
Its an better wat to work with them (instead . lose the time with TV)
Gustav
PESE could please take a little more time to explain for MY sake I would appreciate that Chet
Quote from: ramset on March 16, 2008, 12:09:48 PM
Also are you aware of the put your out put hose in a pail of water inside of a one litre empty soda bottle and time how long it takes to fill the bottle as you let it rise from the pail this will give you an idea of how much gas you are producing per minute do this out side very carefully NEVER near an ignition source it is a very usefull bechmark for your experiments Chet
Yes I just did this in the morning but I used a 500ml bottle. It took 90sec to fill with tap water/baking soda mix at 15amps. It was very little baking soda.
My cell goes
P/Ng/Nu/ Ng/Nu/ Ng/Nu/ Ng/Nu/ Ng/P
Positive (P) Negative (Ng) Neutral (Nu)
I am still working on this so will update soon. Comments welcome
Well I have used the distilled water and?.
No more brown crap floating around the plates Now that is a plus.
Before I added any baking soda I got less then an amp drain (.60) Good.
But then it got me thinking this system may have been better? Why
Well first I had a Positive negative arrangement for 11 plates (5positive and 6negative) with negative on the outside. Problem was I had 19amp cold with no baking soda using tap water. I kick myself now for not trying the distilled water to find out where I would have been. Before I tore it apart and cut down on the positive plates.
Oh well?. Lesson learned
RTS WELL the good side is you won't do that again please keep posting your results and questions thanx Chet PS if you could hold off on the computer control device for a while it would be good
Quote from: ramset on March 16, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
RTS WELL the good side is you won't do that again please keep posting your results and questions thanx Chet PS if you could hold off on the computer control device for a while it would be good
Got that right. :-\
So here is what I have. THis thing is power hungry. Any thoughts?
I used distilled water/bking soda cold 9amps light hho production. As it warms up more and more production. Also more and more amps. I just blew another 30amp fuse on the way to work.
So should I boil the distilled water first. Get it hot. then add baking soda to get to 15-20amps? Will it stop there?
Would a heater work in conjuction with the HHO cell?
boil distilled water?
heating it to the cells max temp and adding electrolyte is fine but it will take ages to get your cell that hot in the car. since itll start at just a couple amp. sure seems like electronic regulation would make more sense here.
Ok I may have it under control.
Boil it to get the cell hot then set the electrolyte this way the system is hot already. But I think I may have got this under control It seems 18miles to work pops the fuse. I emptied the cell and diluted it a bit. I may be at 20amp now hot. Not 100% sure since the meter shuts off after 18amps (too much)
But I still need more help with this so I added a new post about this topic.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4313.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4313.0.html)
My next idea for the heat problem was to extend the fins of my cell outward of the unit, and use the existing car's cooling system to keep the cell cool. This would make the cell heat faster, and keep it at a maintained temp. Problem arises in how to build the cell to maintain 165degrees f. acrylic sure wouldn't do, and ideally I would need it to handle 195, so I can use it in my other vehicles as well.
oh, and dump the baking soda and get some KoH. It is cheap and relatively safe when the proper safety is observed. I switched to KoH and will never go back. My plates that used soda are starting to show signs of rust oxidation on them. the ones that have only seen KoH are not showing that. they are a dull grey on one side and a darker almost black on the other. Each cell is that was I assume showing the current flow thru the system, in other words if I was to use pos in the middle and branch out to neg, I would expect the center electrode to be the same color on each side...
Yes but where to get the KoH local. You are in FL so where do you get it?
I ordered it from www.summerbeemeadow.com Comes in a plastic container with black electrical tape to help keep it closed and air tight.
Keep in mind this stuff is very very reactive. Put a flake in a glass dish and you watch it pull the moiture out of the air unbelievably quick. Get even a weak solution on your skin and it will feel sorta slimey and if you rinse it off immediately you may notice your skin to be rough where it contacted it. Always wear long sleeve clothes, long pants and face and hand protection when working with this stuff. I also work with it in a temp controlled enviroment to keep as much moisture out of the air as I can. I also keep a spray bottle of vinegar on hand and spray my cell with it and then rinse with clean water when I am done. With proper precautions this stuff isn't bad to work with, but if you are a sloppy messy person then you may want to have someone mix the solution for you.
Also always mix the flakes into water and not water into the flakes. Also stir or swirl constantly. KoH produces a large amount of heat instantly when added to water. I could see where someone could have big problems mixing this stuff backwards. As for how to measure the concentration I am not sure since one is flakes and one is liquid. What I did was mix a somewhat stron solution and dilute it down to where I wanted it to be. My cell holds bery little water so I started with a milk just about quarter of the way full. I ended up with a hald a jug by the time I was done. This worked out good for me as I conditioned my cell a bit different the when I used sodium Bicarbonate. I ran the cell in a strong solution for a few days then a weaker one and now I alternate a weak one and straight distilled water. I have to pull the cells apart soon to inspect the plates but the last time I did they lookd pretty good. I am going to flush it one more time then I am going to run it at a weak solution for an extended time to see if or how much the output decreases.
wouldnt a pwm installed in the car, tuned off in the begining and then turned to pulse after cell has heated up be the trick? that what im kind of hopeing to do..... maybe put it on a timer? or a elecrtonic temp gauge and once it gets to a certain degree kick on the pwm to have less current to produce heat but since you get more production from hot water this would balance it out maybe.... what do youall think?
i have a unit from super hydro 2, it uses a natural circulation to cool the fluid. i dont know if you use smacks like this, but you should be able to. do a youtube search on hydro super 2 and watch his videos. i think this might be the best design with bubbler, circulation. i think combined with smacks output, it might be a great unit....
Quote from: rtsurfer on March 07, 2008, 07:50:35 AM
Ok now what about a regulator or PWM to stop the excessive drain.
This is the pwm i use in my hho setup. I bought it here http://www.extremehho.com . I have noticed the excessive heat at the terminals is now gone and it can finally control it. The built in amp gauge is what sold me on this one.
My next step is to hook up a temp gauge for my cell and i also plan on buying a Scangauge II.
Quote from: rtsurfer on March 07, 2008, 07:50:35 AM
Ok now what about a regulator or PWM to stop the excessive drain.
This is the pwm i use in my hho setup. I bought it here http://www.extremehho.com . I have noticed the excessive heat at the terminals is now gone and it can finally control it. The built in amp gauge is what sold me on this one.
My next step is to hook up a temp gauge for my cell and i also plan on buying a Scangauge II.
If you don't want to build your own you can buy a nice one at http://www.extremehho.com