Hi All,
finally found my old video from the 90s when I played with a TOMI
track and recorded this.
Now I have uploaded it to youtube over here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5mYm5nO5Fw
This ramp design clearly shows a rollaway.
In case of the TOMI ( a permanent magnet roller)
the TOMI roller magnet is pulled from the top into the track and then
accelerates and shows a rollaway cause at the end of the magnet track I have placed these
iron core pieces to guide the flux away.
This could even be better used for a SMOT ramp as then the SMOT ball
can enter the ramp on the same level.
Too bad I did not try it at this time with a iron ball, but I guess in around 1993
we had not SMOT yet, when I remember correctly.
Only the TOMI was known at this time.
Anyway, use the 90 degrees flux guideaway iron core pieces.
They must fit the strength of the magnets, so play with their thickness.
It is all in the asymmetrical field setup.
Enjoy.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for digging this out.
Do you recall if this setup has an entry repel force a few centimeters earlier the place you are placing the roller magnets? Any sticky points on the entry side area?
Gyula
Quote from: gyulasun on April 06, 2008, 01:41:47 AM
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for digging this out.
Do you recall if this setup has an entry repel force a few centimeters earlier the place you are placing the roller magnets? Any sticky points on the entry side area?
Gyula
probably just like the tri-gate magnet setup. we will see.
peace
Yes, but the possibility of reducing the repel at entry (if it is inherent also in normal TOMI setups) seems to be included by the correct shape/thickness forms of the iron pieces also at the entry magnets...
This is why I ask Stefan on this how he recalls.
Gyula
Yes,
at the entry it had a sticky point for the TOMI roller magnet,
so for the TOMI setup you needed to let it being pulled into the track from above shortly after the
beginning of the track where it was pulled into the track and had no sticking point.
But for the SMOT setup with using an iron ball instead of a permanent magnet roller,
it will be optimal.
The iron core pieces help to keep the magnetic stator field track interrupted after 3 or 4 magnets and
will give the SMOT acceleration.
Excellent Video Stefan
Did you try longer lengths with this setup?
Cheers
Sean.
@ Stefan:
Great video. A closed loop SMOT may now be easily possible.
Bill
Would be good to see if we could get the same sort of distances as the Tri-Force Gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn0CWXVw1ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhA5YECHm4
Unfortunately not.
As the SMOT was not invented yet and the sticky point at the Tomi Entrance
was hard to overcome , I did not try further at this time.
Regards, Stefan.
Notice the configuration of the magnets in this set-up.
N S
^ ^
S N
This is Howard Johnson (1938)
Very similar to the Tri-Force experiments.
Here is my replication using "Geo-Mags".
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE)
=D
just found this webpage today
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotidx.htm a lot of very interesting things there...
came here to post about it and found this thread!!, very
mystical cool :D
Quote from: sm0ky2 on April 07, 2008, 02:56:47 PM
Notice the configuration of the magnets in this set-up.
N S
^ ^
S N
This is Howard Johnson (1938)
Very similar to the Tri-Force experiments.
Here is my replication using "Geo-Mags".
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE)
working with that launcher concept, is possible to put more power and accelerate the launched element over an ascending ramp to make it return to the start point following a gravity powered path? ???
saludos!! =D
Dear Mr. Stefan:
I ask questions only when I do not know the answer. My question; can this work uphill?
I cannot see how this will work in a closed loop. Closing the lop is easy. So make a video of it when you have one working device ;)
Vidar
hartiberlin, if you used a ferris wheel setup with those bar magnets you used to roll down the track, in the place where seats would normally be on a ferris wheel, so that the magnets dropped down into the track as the wheel rotated, do you believe you would have continuous rotation that wouldn't stop until either the magnets lost their magnetism or something broke on the "ferris wheel"?
Rereading that, I'm not sure I made myself understood. I'm thinking of a vertical wheel with those bar magnets on it. At the bottom of the wheel would be your track. As the magnets on the wheel came down into the track beyond the sticking point, perhaps the track would propel the wheel.
Also, could that track be curved to follow the wheel for a portion of the wheel's rotation?
If you or anyone else understands what I'm trying to get across with those two paragraphs and can comment about the viability of this idea, please do.
What I'm looking for is a way to get a drum to continuously spin using only magnets. Using that track as a stator in combination with set magnets on the drum might be something worth looking into. The way I figure it is that the curve of the drum would be capable of putting the set pieces into the track at a particular place beyond a sticking point due to rotation bringing the set pieces up and into, or down and into, the track.
All right, I'm confusing myself now. I'll stop. Thanks for posting your work.
Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah4rDjRDZd0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah4rDjRDZd0)
Someone want to tell me what the heck this guy has set up, please? Even I can see that this one has a lot of potential. :D
mangyhyena,
Take a look at this thread.
Enjoy as you will be reading forever.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4540.0.html
hello every body
see that
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=yMoIExJEaBU&feature=channel_page
see you soon !
hello my new ramp
to defy the gravity
you tube the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIp9XwtTpPc
Nice work! Did you make it closed loop?
Quote from: padawan on February 05, 2009, 04:08:33 AM
you tube the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIp9XwtTpPc
Quote from: padawan on February 05, 2009, 04:08:33 AM
you tube the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIp9XwtTpPc
Why has this video been removed from Youtube ?
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 18, 2009, 02:29:43 AM
Why has this video been removed from Youtube ?
I dont know !!
now he is doing a bedini motor
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 18, 2009, 02:29:43 AM
Why has this video been removed from Youtube ?
see here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6829.msg159616#msg159616
Quote
Thanks ,
but i don't want post my video on you tube ...I know it ! i have a channel yet "gilbondfac"
for the moment I want to do it just for the forum.
thanks!
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 18, 2009, 02:29:43 AM
Why has this video been removed from Youtube ?
a replication of this ramp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLILn3sCdQ&feature=channel_page
Quote from: tagor on July 01, 2009, 11:26:49 AM
a replication of this ramp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLILn3sCdQ&feature=channel_page
Hi;
I am excited by this Flash Ramp idea as an extension of a SMOT ramp.
It seems like it would be possible to build a cart that runs between two
identical flash ramp tracks oriented in parallel. This cart could be made
wider then it is long, and have four magnets as wheels. It seems like it
would behave pretty much like an individual magnet puck would behave
on the track.
Then, what one would do is to build a flywheel on the cart, rotating in the
plane of the wheels, along with a miniature CVT continuously variable
transmission consisting of a small rotating wheel and a disk. Actually
one could make the disk as part of the flywheel itself. The small wheel
would be positioned radially on the disk by a computer driven actuator.
As the flywheel speeds up the wheel move radially on the disk to keep
gearing up the mechanical advantage and storing energy.
When the cart gets into the gate area of the track, the cvt would be
made to “downshift†by repositioning the wheel on the disk and it would
begin dumping energy from the flywheel to the wheels to carry the cart
slowly across the sticky spot.
I would use a computer and electronic actuator at first to get the CVT
ramp parameters correct but one could eventually convert it to an all
mechanical actuator system based on wheel run-out and a trigger in
the ramp area. The idea, as previously demonstrated by Clanzer, is that
the SMOT ramp can be made any length, therefore it would seem any
amount of energy could be made available to the flywheel to buffer for
the needs of the cart in the gate area. The CVT Flywheel mechanism is
rather simple to build in terms of parts and the computer would make
finding the correct mechanical "impedance" setting easier.
:S:MarkSCoffman
you know, I have been preaching for years to use a small servo motor(timed), use it to only get past the sticky point then let the magnets do the rest.
as far as my recollection nobody has tried it. I know it will work.
Jerry ;)
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 29, 2009, 01:34:05 AM
you know, I have been preaching for years to use a small servo motor(timed), use it to only get past the sticky point then let the magnets do the rest.
as far as my recollection nobody has tried it. I know it will work.
Jerry ;)
I have a bit of a problem with your method in that one would need
to generate and buffer electrical energy...this means an electro
magnetic generator, these work efficiently mainly at high speeds.
I would work to keep electromagnetics out of the back-end storage loop
in case there is some sort of law trading-off coupling of the net magnetic
force on the input side to how much one gets on the output side.
On the other hand, with mechanical storage of forces, one could
visualise a cart slowly speeding up magnetically, restrained by
a mechanical flywheel storage and then a potential follow through
based in a timed torque increasing mechanical gear changing
down shift. The cart would slowly roll through the sticky spot
but at high torque.
:S:MarkSCoffman
I would like to make a large Styrofoam wheel, 4ft diameter or better and place the magnets around the edge, place a little spring load switch on the support and place a trip flange on the side of the wheel where the sticky spot is that way when the sticky spot comes round it will trip the toggle switch in momentary on position to switch on a mini servo that will just turn long enough to get it past the sticky point, add some little mini coils around the sides so the coils will recharge the power pack for the mini servo.
I don't have any really large diameter Styrofoam available in my area at this time, but it would be neat to make a very large but light weight wheel like that.
the added momentum of the servo will add to the magnetic acceleration potential so I don't think there would be a lot of stress on the servo once momentum is built up a bit.
then, fine tune it until it's efficiency increases to its optimal point of recharge and escape velocity from the sticky point.
Jerry :)
Jerry:
If you can visit a "home-improvement" store such as Lowe's or Home-Depot you can purchase 4ft x 8ft sheets of styrofoam insulation for the construction of a wheel (link: http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Materials-Insulation-Sheathings/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xjqZbaxx/R-100549260/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053).
Also as an idea if you would use a photo/optical eye rather than a "toggle switch" you would have less drag on the rotation of the wheel.
Just my 2 bits.
Truesearch
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 29, 2009, 08:10:44 PM
I would like to make a large Styrofoam wheel, 4ft diameter or better and place the magnets around the edge, place a little spring load switch on the support and place a trip flange on the side of the wheel where the sticky spot is that way when the sticky spot comes round it will trip the toggle switch in momentary on position to switch on a mini servo that will just turn long enough to get it past the sticky point, add some little mini coils around the sides so the coils will recharge the power pack for the mini servo.
I don't have any really large diameter Styrofoam available in my area at this time, but it would be neat to make a very large but light weight wheel like that.
the added momentum of the servo will add to the magnetic acceleration potential so I don't think there would be a lot of stress on the servo once momentum is built up a bit.
then, fine tune it until it's efficiency increases to its optimal point of recharge and escape velocity from the sticky point.
Jerry :)
I'd like to encourage you to do so. Whenever guys produce a wheel like
this they seem to forget one thing; To actually measure the power used
to get the rotor passed the sticky point vs how much could be produced
by a small magnet motor used as a generator. So neither I nor anyone else
can't know if *this* is overunity, or, if not, then how close it is. I'd be glad
to show someone how it is done, if they have an actual experimental
wheel.
Here is videos that shows how easy it might be, obviously I'm
not vouching for the guy's set-up, but it maybe shows some good
ideas.;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jow_Rt6udA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qF3v9LZmfQ&feature=channel
:S:MarkSCoffman
One interesting possibility; Use a 48Vdc converted Bedini Computer Fan
(with no fan circuitry) with it's two coils located 90 degrees apart running
two diode bridges charging a capacitor...As both the generator and central
pivot point of a (spiral) magnetic motor...The 48Vdc fan generator should
keep the generated voltage rather high, like maybe in the 6-12Vdc range
Use gradient accent method of sorting magnets in the spiral field from
weakest to strongest to help pull the rotor through the field.
When the wheel gets to the sticky spot have an electronic wall
clock mechanism (the kind that runs for a year or more on one
carbon/zinc battery) slowly drive a plastic tire with friction on the wheel,
through the sticky spot. When the wheel is rotated past the sticky spot
the tire looses friction on the wheel and the wheel spins around freely
to the sticky stop again.
Couple the generator capacitor to the clock motor to run it.
As long as the clock mechanism can generate sufficient torque and hang
together, the 1.5Vdc motor mechanism should be highly efficient and
the generator should not be so bad either. Seems perpetual to me.
:S:MarkSCoffman
I honestly don't see why the below picture can't be scaled up, and in turn be over unity?. If you think about it, the length of the track doesn't matter. Say if you had a track 10 metres long and it curled up 10 metres back to the starting point, and along the track you had coils to pick up electricity... then when it gets back to the start, use that electricity generated to power a solenoid to push the ball back into its starting position, and any excess electricity you can use for what ever. this concept would be highly impracticable for the amount of electricity, but for me, i don't care about practicality, i only care about proving the existence of OU
you have to use ramps built in a circle ...........perfectly timed with the oncoming magnet on the rotor.......at the perfect height.......so gravity can be put to its' best use.....also have a magnet above the oscilating (up & down) magnet drive,.... to help it through the "sticky spot"..........timing is crucial..........been working on this for twenty years now .....I've almost got it down ...........but close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.........if I get it to work you people will be the first to know........shylo
Hello fellos.
Weekend workshop.
Thats have to get running well. Chain is iron metal and also the teeth rings, better will be SS chain and SS teeht rings. but have to buy in next week.
littlebit more
few videos too if not too large..
more
more
and more :D
Hi Thing,
Awesome work. That last video looks like if you can get the bottom row going it will really start to pull. Hopefully many magnets or longer track can overcome the inherent sticky spots in these ramp designs. Lots of variables to play with.
Thing:
Very interesting design there. I wish you the best with it and am looking forward to watching your progress.
Bill
Quote from: mscoffman on October 03, 2009, 10:35:24 AM
One interesting possibility; Use a 48Vdc converted Bedini Computer Fan
(with no fan circuitry) with it's two coils located 90 degrees apart running
two diode bridges charging a capacitor...As both the generator and central
pivot point of a (spiral) magnetic motor...The 48Vdc fan generator should
keep the generated voltage rather high, like maybe in the 6-12Vdc range
Use gradient accent method of sorting magnets in the spiral field from
weakest to strongest to help pull the rotor through the field.
When the wheel gets to the sticky spot have an electronic wall
clock mechanism (the kind that runs for a year or more on one
carbon/zinc battery) slowly drive a plastic tire with friction on the wheel,
through the sticky spot. When the wheel is rotated past the sticky spot
the tire looses friction on the wheel and the wheel spins around freely
to the sticky stop again.
Couple the generator capacitor to the clock motor to run it.
As long as the clock mechanism can generate sufficient torque and hang
together, the 1.5Vdc motor mechanism should be highly efficient and
the generator should not be so bad either. Seems perpetual to me.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Hi . I just happen to have one or two right infront of me . :) have you tried it ?
Its a good idea . a few spins to charge them up and should work . these fans are amazing and i still have my 48v setup that fausto replicated that runs itself off the 12 volts and keeps it charged. I also am a watch repair person .(used to be and still do for the family) i have Tons of Boliva watchs all kinds with motors . could use a cell phone motor and a small reed in place of them . I will try this . all i need is a small reed to see if it will pull from the ring magnet in that fan.Might have an extra window alarm set over at the other place in storage...
The Thing - Very nice . Maybe you can incorporate some lever to move the drive magnet at the sticky spot.
gadget
The thing is that here is not stikcy point at all, follow the links, watch the clips the iron ball falling freely not attracting enything, or running freely out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvhX7BF9pL0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoonbYUTGhU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=bHaxRpKFPhs
http://jnaudin.free.fr/
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotidx.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smv2tst.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/permotr.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rgen2.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rmodmk1.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rmodmk2.htm
Or follow the White Rabbit :)
T...
Raw pictures with google scetchup.
OK .
Quote from: Thing on September 04, 2012, 05:06:57 PM
Or follow the White Rabbit :)
T...
ok i am following you white rabbit 8) . Well i need to do some reading . the ole smot has come a long way . i still see drive magnets in your design . Do they move or are they stationary?I have a hard time downloading mp4's before viewing . just a suggestion ... get a youtube account so your mp4 will automatically convert and is viewed faster . I am working on My ball gravity ferriswheel so in one respect railing is the common ground we have . forgive me if i am distracting you .
Al
Hi.
Good response makes good feelings, for that reason i come here forum, because people around me dont understand and not supporting the what i make.
Idea is that iron ball in the smot videos not makes stikcy point what brakes the rotation, but iron is not good i think ferrite or something like that is better, because ferrite no becomes magnet when you take off it form magnet field, but if steel touches magnet or stays long time in magnet fielt then his become magnetic too.
Magnets in the pictures( red and blue color) is stationary, one pair is up level and other pair is lower level, one makes movement right and other makes movement to left, in the chain is not magnets, jes in my pictures it is magnets too but then appears stikcy point, and thats pictures was taken for showing just lot of possibilites of construction.
What is the best solution is time to show.
Now i need stainless steel bicykle chain what neodym magnet not attracting it, and gears to, its have to be plastic or SS, in the pictures cain is ordinary steel and gears too and its not good because when i make magnet triangle littlebit close then they jumps to chain, even when i clued it the opposite force appears.
Jean Luc Naudin makes good work to, if you watching the clips in youtube then iron ball when it reaches to top of magnetic triangle it freely drops down, sticky point not appears, when those balls put in the chain and magnetic triangles is two like in my 3d pictures then its have to start running arount without stopping, ofcourse magnets will die to but it happening about 100 years after, that is good for me :)
Thing
Hi Yes thats the thing Thing . You are like me if we build something that moved perpetually someone will still say no it's not the magnet wont last or the bearings will need oil ..etc.. . It will for several generations though and if it last the rest of my life time for a drop of oil ever now and then then my goals are accomplished .. Have you tried MUMetal to reduce the sticky spot . MU-Metal can be found in hard drive magnet backings and when attached to a magnet it can shield one side.Pretty cool stuff only one side grips the other is shielded with very little magnetic force. Mine wont enen pick up a small screwdriver on the back side but sticks with GREAT force on the magnet side.
Here is a link to a quick video showing how it gets past the sticky spot.
hope that helps !
borrowed link http://www.overunity.org.uk/cmps_index.php?pageid=mumet (http://www.overunity.org.uk/cmps_index.php?pageid=mumet)
Gadget
The escape from the TOMI track is impressive but the videos usually leave out two
bugaboos. First is the track entrance where it takes a push/squeeze to get it to the
take off spot and second is the escape uses gravity to be successful and so the result
nothing gained unless the end point is higher than the starting point. If neither of the
gotchas were there the tracks could be connected and we would have a continually
rolling ball just like Finsrud....
but I'm still addicted to permanent magnets.
About the mumetal in hard drives. Any metal will do about the same thing but
it seems mumetal can be quite thin so the magnetic result is about the same.
It short circuits the flux very well.
Norman