I have been watching a great video of Stan talking about his design. His design uses little to no amps to produce HHO from water. He uses a coil that multiplies the voltages and takes the amps out. So my thoughts when looking at the design is a HEI coil out of a car. And that is attached to a PWM. Here is a drawing
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Has anyone ever tried this? Is it possible.
You may put in a capacitor between the PWM and coil to help the coil recoup as it uses the energy.
Any thoughts.
Hey RTsurfer,
That sounds feasible to me. I have a board that you can use to modulate the coil. Check out this link. There is a PDF file which is the schematic.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4293.0.html
And another thread discusses using this board to control the production of HHO.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4424.0.html
So does the RT stand for R/T like Hemi powered?
I want a Big V8 so bad, I just don't want to pay the fuel cost. If we could get a reliable HHO system working then I would not need to worry about fuel cost.
It's a fuelish endeavor...
OK, Mo Later...
Hey rtsurfer
I imagine it could be done, my biggest question is whats the temprature gonna be like on a cell that your pumping that much voltage into? If it sky rockets you'd have to find a way to bring it down and stablize it. via using bigger gauge wiring thicker plates or electrodes, adjusting voltage etc. just some thoughts.
Stan mentioned that by using coils to remove the amps in his system and multiplying the voltage he creates a system that produces very little heat. From what I can see he has a coil on both sides. Connected in series. Once the first cell uses the voltage and drops what is left on the negative he then picks up from there another coil (positive side) and the replicates the coil from the center to another cell. SO he uses on coil infront of the first cell and between the first and second cell.
Thereby using the left over energy from the first cell and multiplying that voltage to power the second cell. This is connected in series.
He used 4 cells to move his VW (1600cc ICE)
This video goes into more depth. And it is way more then I understand at the moment.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8355517779975365309&q=stanley+meyers+duration:long&total=17&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8355517779975365309&q=stanley+meyers+duration:long&total=17&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)
But from what I can gather there is very little heat produced from using voltage instead of amps.
And he uses plain water no baking soda ,potassium, sodium or salt
According to Jon / Free Energy Group, your are gonna have to send pulsed DC into that auto ignition coil in order to get your high voltage out. Generally you can do this with a 555 timer driving a power transistor.
Right which it why we have a PWN in front of the first coil. Pulses the DC to the first cell and that is replicated to the second cell.
Okay, I was wondering what that was, haha
Thanks
Quote from: z.monkey on April 10, 2008, 09:51:01 AM
So does the RT stand for R/T like Hemi powered?
I want a Big V8 so bad, I just don't want to pay the fuel cost. If we could get a reliable HHO system working then I would not need to worry about fuel cost.
It's a fuelish endeavor...
OK, Mo Later...
Well it did stand for R/T Hemi before I got rid of the car. 06 Charger 5.7 R/T. Loved it and want it back. But gas prices are way to high to have a heavy foot ;D
SO Now I have a 2002 blazer been doing some HHO stuff on. Playing around learning. Luckly nothing burned out yet ::)
Howdy
My Digital HHO board can do pulses as well as PWM. It is a PIC Microcontroller, so it is very flexible. It can also take lots of input signals. The output driver is a high current MOSFET.
OK, Mo Later...
THose links do not lead to a Digital board?
Here is the PDF...
What are you charging for a built systems like that?
Quote from: Feynman on April 10, 2008, 10:47:56 AM
According to Jon / Free Energy Group, your are gonna have to send pulsed DC into that auto ignition coil in order to get your high voltage out. Generally you can do this with a 555 timer driving a power transistor.
Actually I found that by using a older GM ignition control module is easier I think, about 15 bucks at an autostore, plug in 12vdc battery and a signal generator or 555 timer circuit to trigger it.
Hey R/T,
Well this system is not developed yet. This is an idea and it would take a considerable amount of research and development to turn it into a "product". Now I have a similar board which is an atmospheric sensor device which has been developed into a product which sells for $139. With a concept like HHO I would imagine that the R&D costs would be greater because it is not an established science yet, such as meteorology. Having said that I do have two hand built prototypes. You can copy the concept design and build your own board. I am not going to patent or copyright this because the work I do on this site is a gift to the world. But, this is not a simple easy prototype. It deals with microcontrollers and to be able to use them you either have to be able to program in C, Basic, or assembly language. Once you know that they are relatively easy to deal with. I don't mind conceptualizing for free and publishing my ideas on this web site, but if you want my company to provide engineering services for you it is going to be costly. We charge $110 per hour for engineering services. Prototyping, assembly, and test are extra on top of that. To develop a product for you will probably be in the range of $50,000 minimum. That cost goes up considerably with the complexity of the project. I estimate that engineering a reliable HHO controller to replace a gasoline engine management system could be in the range of several million dollars, easy. This is not to say that such a system would cost that much, this is the research and development cost. A finished product would probably sell in the range of $300 to $500, which considering the cost of a gasoline engine management system is not unreasonable. I am hoping that I have not discouraged you because this is a noble cause. We really need this. But, alas, this is business, and you have to pay those engineers that can do this level of work. Now I am willing to donate my ideas and eventually may be able to integrate all the peripheral things that are needed into this design. I may even be able to design a circuit board and provide complete boards for sale eventually. However, you need to remember that this is my spare time I am spending to develop this stuff and I don't have much spare time. Actually delivering a product could take a long time. If we could tap the talent in this member base of overunity.com, and everyone could get along, we may be able to accomplish this task a lot quicker. That's a big if. So what do you think?
Here's to a cleaner and more powerful tomorrow...
Z I think your a cool guy with a big heart [and brain ] and your in the right place @ RT whats the blazer getting these days for mileage ? Chet
Here's what gets up my nose...
Take a look at this video for example... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8352951606482166693 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8352951606482166693)
If you view the comments after it, there are a load of snott nosed chavs that think they know it all. They are saying stuff like "It's Bulls**t", and other stuff like that. I tried to post a long explanation (look at the post by mastergroundscrew, that's my YouTube name by the way), but it only lets you post 500 letters long. So I never got the chance to try re-educating them.
[EDIT] I have experimented with HHO on a smaller scale, and so I can confirm that you can burn water. But it really gets to me when I know that I have seen it for myself, but these num-skulls sit there and call experimenters like ourselves, Bulls**tters. [/EDIT]
RESULT... I managed to post the rest of my comments on the video.
I also stuck the comments in another video, just for good measure ;D.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhhH-0qqbk (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhhH-0qqbk)
Quote from: ramset on April 11, 2008, 11:07:42 PM
Z I think your a cool guy with a big heart [and brain ] and your in the right place @ RT whats the blazer getting these days for mileage ? Chet
Well I checked it Thursday afternoon and got 21.7mpg CITY. Up from 18-18.5. Now I can get 21 highway driving but not city.
My gas production is 852ml per minute a at 19.9amps so It is not the best cell but I am working on a smacks cell inaddition to this one.
Quote from: rtsurfer on April 10, 2008, 06:52:06 AM
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Hey buddy I have built this same system but it will not work unless you can control a spark between the coil and the cell. When i tried this i hooked up a system just like this but it wouldnt do anything. No voltage on the cell at all. If i detatched the lead going to the cell from the coil and let me spark i would see a lot of voltage running through the cell but no gas production. I would see some very small bubbles once in a while but that could be something else. I dont know what else to try. Im not sure why it isnt working or how to get it working. Theres something we're missing in this system.
Quote from: cyrus on April 21, 2008, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: rtsurfer on April 10, 2008, 06:52:06 AM
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Hey buddy I have built this same system but it will not work unless you can control a spark between the coil and the cell. When i tried this i hooked up a system just like this but it wouldnt do anything. No voltage on the cell at all. If i detatched the lead going to the cell from the coil and let me spark i would see a lot of voltage running through the cell but no gas production. I would see some very small bubbles once in a while but that could be something else. I dont know what else to try. Im not sure why it isnt working or how to get it working. Theres something we're missing in this system.
Have you tried a diode in line with the HT ?.
Im not sure what HT is but Ive made another diagram of exactly what i did.
I have used a 3 amp, 400PIV rectifier diode.
The only place ive tried putting a diode is on the positive wire coming from the pwm to the coil. I think ive also tried it on the positive wire coming from the coil to the cell. Both instances nothing different happened.
What I mean by HT is High Tension at the coil output. Try soldering a few diodes together in parallel, and then put the resulting diode pack between the coil output and the chamber. That should rectify the current going into the chamber.
Quote from: Bulbz on April 21, 2008, 10:48:44 PM
What I mean by HT is High Tension at the coil output. Try soldering a few diodes together in parallel, and then put the resulting diode pack between the coil output and the chamber. That should rectify the current going into the chamber.
I took up your suggestion and added 3 diodes between the coil and the cell having the current going towards the cell. Nothing happened even after spending a few minutes adjusting the frequency and the gating.
I then tried adding a spark gap before and after the diodes and it would show more than 500v going through the cell. Even then no activity within the cell (no water splitting at all). I think maybe the current is going right through the water to the negative terminal. Im not sure what else to try. Any more suggestions?
If I can think of more suggestions, I will let you know. The most important thing though, don't give up trying 8).
Take a look at this:
http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/power/030/
I'm not an electronics wiz. can anyone better describe what is going on in that first circuit? What should the components be used for higher voltages? Maybe this will help make the step up transformer we're trying to make with the coil.
Howdy Y'all,
What kind of water are you using in the electrolyzer cell when you are putting the high voltage on it?
That circuit is a DC to DC converter. It takes 12 volts DC and steps it up to, say, like 48 volts DC, or whatever you want if you get an adjustable one. You just have to build the circuit, you don't need a printed circuit board. It will probably work better with wires anyway. Grab a chunk of protoboard, and solder some components to it. Get some wire and make the connections. You'll get better with practice.
I think the system needs higher amplitude, but also it needs the right frequency and wave shape. With out resonance the cell probably will only barely work. To get it to work properly, the driver circuit will have to be tuned to resonate with the electrolyzer cell to solicit maximum HHO production.
So, anyway, tap water is conductive to high voltages. To get the high voltage coil to work you will need to use deionized water, like pure distilled water, no additives. To high voltage the tap water is a dead short. The deionized water is not conductive, but at ignition coil voltages I don't know. Insulators become conductors at high voltages.
Have Fun...
Thats a good bit of info monkey.
I'm using just regular tap water. Is there a simpler way to get at least 24 volts out of my 12v battery? If i can at least get that much ill get a better understanding on how to do it. Im having a hard time finding the right parts at my local radio shack so anything simple to do would be awesome. Id also like to use my PWM since i bought it already :D
Howdy,
Simple way to get 24 Volts, put 2 batteries in series. Why do you want 24 volts? Tell me about the PWM unit, give a part number, manufacturers name, frequency ratings, voltage rating.
OK, Mo later...
Lawton D14 based PWM:
Input Voltage: 5-30volts DC
Current: 0-6amps (fuse protected)
Max Feq: (up to)500khz
Has Digital Ammeter
I doesnt have to be 24 volts i just want to get a little step up going so i understand the basics. Once i learn how to do that I can go bigger. I want to get as many volts as i can. But id like it to be DC and consistent. Or at least so i can pulse it with my PWM.
Howdy Cyrus,
Check this out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyers
Whatever voltage you are using you need to tune the driver board to the load and/or transformer your connected to. Do you have an oscilloscope? That D14 board has 4 pots on it for changing the timing and phase of the output pulses. That ignition coil is an iron core transformer that will not respond to frequencies above 500 Hertz. a better frequency to start with would be more like 60 Hertz. In the Wiki link above there is a circuit for Stanley Meyer;s water fuel cell. He is using a toroidal core transformer. You could use a regular EI Iron core step down transformer to do this. You can get one at an electronics store for a few bucks. This would give your circuit somewhere in the range of 100 Volts, instead of tens of thousands. Study the schematic from the Wiki link.
OK, Mo Later...
Monkey do you know anyone who got this working?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Water_fuel_cell_circuit.png
Heh,
No I don't. I'm actually new to Stanley Meyers concept. But have have been looking at similar things for a while. My forte' is electrical. I understand the circuit well. Like any circuit you need resonance to get the maximum effect of the whatever it is you are building. In the case of the HHO device there is a resonance that needs to be formed between the driver and the resonant circuit. In this case the resonant circuit is the transformer seconday (PWM circuit) and the load (the capacitive electrolyzer). In a radio circuit there is a resonant inductor capacitor tank circuit and a driver. In the case of the HHO device you have a transformer which is the inductor portion of the LC tank circuit, The secondary coil in the inductor is the L portion of the tank circuit and the electrolyzer is the C part of the tank circuit. There should be a frequency where the L (inductor) and the C (capacitor) resonate. This needs to be of design. It probably will not be randomly achieved, but occasionally it has.
The schematic in the Wiki article is just a conceptual drawing. The actual circuit could be anywhere from simple to complex. Plus it is also possible to use existing subsystems to synthesize the necessary frequencies and amplitudes. The best way is to design your own circuit. Run the gauntlet and design some electronics. If you know the right frequency and amplitude, then just dig into some data sheets and build some circuits, dude.
This is the future, frequency and amplitude control...
I have a circuit that you can start with, if you like...
OK, Mo Later...