I stumbled accross these videos on youtube, dont know if you have seen it yet but it looks real and quiet revolutionary to me check out part4 particully as you see the sheilding neutralize the magnets
from one direction but not the other just as we want it to, check it out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo6CENdvG4c&feature=related
Thanks for posting this. Pretty neat.
I was very impressed by this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K-cDryO7pOE (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K-cDryO7pOE)
Magnetic shielding seems possible! :o :o :o
yup ... hope he takes it back onto the wheel ...
Quote from: bastonia on April 13, 2008, 04:39:28 PM
yup ... hope he takes it back onto the wheel ...
Hell yeah man im with ya, it should work but if there is any reason that anyone can see why it may not work then please discuss that here aswell without being critical of corse.
Wow, this seems incredible, if it's that simple (sheet tin & rubber spacers). Simple to prove/disprove for anyone with the right-sized magnets too. Unfortunately, the biggest I have is 1cm disc magnets...
I'm really surprised this has attracted so few posts - what am I missing???
I might test it tomorrow if I get time with some 10mm x 10mm x 5mm neos and some thin sheet metal I found in the garage... it may be a little thick so I may have to try and find some better materials
they are only small magnets but if the double shield works it should be easy to test in a loop with the rotor I have already set up
Quote from: Sprocket on April 13, 2008, 10:28:38 PM
Wow, this seems incredible, if it's that simple (sheet tin & rubber spacers). Simple to prove/disprove for anyone with the right-sized magnets too. Unfortunately, the biggest I have is 1cm disc magnets...
I'm really surprised this has attracted so few posts - what am I missing???
I think people are jaded by all the youtube videos that have proven to be fakes.
I don't see the shielding proof of this video.
There is some repeling and then he moves the magnet far above the magnet on the table. To far away.
If the shield had been any good at all he should be able to put the magnets close together without them interacting.
And the holy graal of magnetic shielding is a material that will stop flux without the magnets being attracted to the shield.
But this type of shield doesn't exist, and it probably never will.
There is no existing shield that can shield magnetic flux without the magnets being attracted to the shield.
This is how a shield works. It's simply a ferromagnetic alloy with very good magnetic attraction properties that will
stop or weaken the flux from passing through the plate. But the backdraw is the magnets being attracted to the shield.
And this attraction consumes just as much energy to overcome as the shield have provided, if properly designed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the video show no progress in shielding technology.
Iv'e looked at some more of your videos and think I understand how you plan to build your fuelless motor.
If so, this have been tried before and it didn't work. But I wish you luck in your continued research.
Don't forget that you need powerful torque and good rpm at no or little expense to suceed.
Quote from: Honk on April 14, 2008, 04:14:58 AM
I don't see the shielding proof of this video.
There is some repeling and then he moves the magnet far above the magnet on the table. To far away.
If the shield had been any good at all he should be able to put the magnets close together without them interacting.
There is only repeling from one direction, at the start he pushes the magnet into the centre by repulsion then lifts it up to demonstraite that the other side hardly has any repulsion effect and if you notice it takes little effort for him to drag over the other one becuase of the sheilding effect then it repelles proberbly with more force then what was required to drag the magnet accross.
Yes, I understand that but his shield is still attracted to the magnets and to overcome this you loose the gain of shielding.
Since the dawn of magnetic motors, inventors have been trying to build a shielded magnetic motor but they all found themselves
having a motor that always found equilibrium and stopped. If not immediately then very soon or when being loaded to perform work.
But I still find the shield concept intriguing. Perhaps it is possible to get it to work, maybe a weak self-runner to prove the idea.
Quote from: seekingknowledge on April 13, 2008, 06:39:52 AM
I stumbled accross these videos on youtube, dont know if you have seen it yet but it looks real and quiet revolutionary to me check out part4 particully as you see the sheilding neutralize the magnets
from one direction but not the other just as we want it to, check it out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo6CENdvG4c&feature=related
So let the experimenter place low loss wheels on the magnet on the table. Then move the handheld magnet, and then see what happens. The experiment is quite common knowledge, though.
br.
vidar
The problem when trying a motor of this type is the lack of continously thrust forward.
Between each magnet passage there is an area of no thrust. This is where the motor
will find equilibrium, no matter what. In a true and really real working motor there is always a
force thrusting forward, even when loaded hard or stalled. When you stall the motor and release it,
the rotor must immediately start to spin on its own. Powerful stall torque is absolutely crusial.
The strength of the stall torque vs the maximum free spinning rpm at no load determines
how much power can harvested from a generator connected to the shaft.
I guess the lack of response to this "awesome and fantastic videos" is more related with the fact that there is nothing "awesome and fantastic" to see there anyway.
As long as people misunderstands what we are dealing with, and we all misunderstand it when it comes to magnetism, these kind of mistakes will be repeated one after the other.
First, there no such a thing as a magnetic shield. You only can modify the field and flux lines, so only it appears to be shielded, but in reality the mag field is just greatly distorted and with a big low flow region.
Don't be mistaken. I am sure that magnetism can be used to produce free energy. But the so called shielding is a dead end, and to get energy from magnets requires a completely different point of view
Just my two cents.
I guess the lack of response to this "awesome and fantastic videos" is more related with the fact that there is nothing "awesome and fantastic" to see there anyway.
As long as people misunderstands what we are dealing with, and we all misunderstand it when it comes to magnetism, these kind of mistakes will be repeated one after the other.
First, there no such a thing as a magnetic shield. You only can modify the field and flux lines, so only it appears to be shielded, but in reality the mag field is just greatly distorted and with a big low flow region.
Don't be mistaken. I am sure that magnetism can be used to produce free energy. But the so called shielding is a dead end, and to get energy from magnets requires a completely different point of view
Just my two cents.
I agree. When the experimenter shows the "shielded" side, he is holding the magnet at a higher altitude then when he approached from the other side. He just skimmed over the flux rather than truly going through it.
I was hoping that pure tin (as opposed to tin-plated steel) was the "magic bullet" here. Perhaps not... :'(
Just wondering, did anyone see part 3? He show pushing on the table with like poles and almost no attraction with unlike poles.
Wondering how he did this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-cDryO7pOE&feature=related
Sorry, misquote.
Like poles repelling on one side and like poles not repelling when flipped.
If both magnets have a ferromagnetic alloy (shield) covering their back they will act as in this video.
But then you cannot use the magnets for any motor. So this is another dead end.
Quote from: icanbeatbob on April 15, 2008, 12:40:59 AM
Just wondering, did anyone see part 3? He show pushing on the table with like poles and almost no attraction with unlike poles.
Wondering how he did this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-cDryO7pOE&feature=related
@Honk
I am not very good at physics, and respectfully believe you have a greater understanding than I do. A thought came over me, and please understand this is off the cuff. I remember looking at a Tri-force gate, or something like that. Isn't this getting past the sticky point? Wish I understood these things more.
Brad
The trigate is based on balancing the forces towards a slightly greater push than pull.
But this effect reach equilibrium when you try to close the trigate loop. Trigate will not go OU.
And I believe that any motor based on balancing the flux force by shielding or other methods
will never work and they will also be very weak without out any real torque to perform work.
Hi critics,
Something is bothering me.
From:
http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/magnets.php?group=blocks_big&switch_lang=1 (http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/magnets.php?group=blocks_big&switch_lang=1)
BTW :a very serious company, IMHO. :))
Neo magnet number :
Q-51-51-25-N
50,8 x 50,8 x 25,4 mm
Weight: 500 g
Nickel-plated
Magnetisation: N40
Strength: approx. 100 kg
......
1 pc. 39,50 EUR ea.
We call this magnet the DEATH MAGNET.
I have no idea what you can reasonably do with this magnet - it is simply too
intense for most any use. Monitors, credit cards, video tapes - all down the
drain. Tip: Only use this one with a thick piece of cardboard between it and
the metal surface, otherwise you'll never be able to get them apart again. My
advice: buy a smaller magnet! But when you think you really must have this
monster: BE CAREFUL!!! And please never, never allow children to play with the
Death Magnet.
---------------------------------------------
1" = 25.4 mm.
50.8 mm x 50.8 mm x 25.4 mm = 2" x 2" * 1" = 4 cubic feeet
Now, according to the vid n?2, this guy is using a
4" x 2" x 1/2" = 4 cubic feeet Neo magnet.
So, this guy is claiming using a Death Magnet!
Question: How are his fingers ???
Best
So, that's it??
I saw this thread when it first opened a couple of days ago. I've just got back and expected to be reading a few pages to catch up.
What a disappointment. I might try something but all I have are flat and round neos. no cubes.
Quote from: MrMag on April 15, 2008, 09:55:39 PM
So, that's it??
I saw this thread when it first opened a couple of days ago. I've just got back and expected to be reading a few pages to catch up.
What a disappointment. I might try something but all I have are flat and round neos. no cubes.
Sorry mate i found the video and to my understanding this was a way of getting past the sticky point so i posted it, even tho im a little skeptical myself i was hoping for a few more posative responces but i guess until one of us has a go at sheilding the magnets there is always gunna be skeptics.
Quote from: NerzhDishual on April 15, 2008, 02:29:10 PM
50.8 mm x 50.8 mm x 25.4 mm = 2" x 2" * 1" = 4 cubic feeet
Now, according to the vid n?2, this guy is using a
4" x 2" x 1/2" = 4 cubic feeet Neo magnet.
I think that a 4 cubic feet neo can lift a truck. Those magnets are 4 cubic INCHES, not feet!.
Quote from: Honk on April 14, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
The problem when trying a motor of this type is the lack of continously thrust forward.
Between each magnet passage there is an area of no thrust. This is where the motor
will find equilibrium, no matter what. In a true and really real working motor there is always a
force thrusting forward, even when loaded hard or stalled. When you stall the motor and release it,
the rotor must immediately start to spin on its own. Powerful stall torque is absolutely crusial.
The strength of the stall torque vs the maximum free spinning rpm at no load determines
how much power can harvested from a generator connected to the shaft.
Yes, but still the sum of thrust and nothing, is still thrust. I believe the case is more that the thrust is cancelled by an equal counter thrust after the area of no thrust. Well, not perfectly correct. The thrust or force will over a given distance provide the amount of energy required to run a motor. So the greatest thrust at one side can be greater than the greatest thrust one the other side, but the difference is over how long distance the average thrust is distributed on each side. That's why the magnets allways will find equilibrium. Thrust or force isn't energy alone without the distance. Say we have an average trust of 10kg over a distance of 1 meter, this is the same energy as 20kg thrust over a distance of 0,5 meters
The realization of thrust or force is often not being connected with a given distance the force is distributed over - which in turn is the most common misapprehension when speaking of provided energy. Probably one of the explanations why there is nothing more than failed magnet-motor projects out there.
Br.
Vidar
@NobleWolf
QuoteThose magnets are 4 cubic INCHES, not feet!.
Yes, you are right.
Last night, I suddenly woke up thinking about it (almost no kidding)!
As a f' French I was only taught about millimeter, centimeter, meter..etc..
Sorry, sometimes my tongue is slipping (and even sleeping). :-*
Best
Our farm tractor had an opening in the front where you could insert a crank to start it.
It always struck me how the flywheel seemed to be imbalanced...it would turn very hard until it past a certain point, where it would speed up with such force that if you were not careful the crank would also make a very violent rotation.
Would a weight placed on a rotor at the correct location be enough to take a magnet motor past the sticky point...and with torque ?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on April 18, 2008, 06:43:04 PM
Our farm tractor had an opening in the front where you could insert a crank to start it.
It always struck me how the flywheel seemed to be imbalanced...it would turn very hard until it past a certain point, where it would speed up with such force that if you were not careful the crank would also make a very violent rotation.
Would a weight placed on a rotor at the correct location be enough to take a magnet motor past the sticky point...and with torque ?
Regards...
LOL, Yes I remember those tractors :) Once in a while the farmer broke an arm, or someone got that crank in the face - looking too close - when the engine kicked back when the ignition went wrong.
Well, a weight placed correctly on a rotor would for sure cancel the sticky spot by using gravity, but when that weight are going the next half round - upwards -, it must fight agains gravity, which is then the "sticky" spot. Force, thrust, mass, gravity, or static magnetism can't do work alone. Easy as that. SMOT, "Wankel", or whatever you call the magnet motor will never work alone.
These magnet motors or constructions are all based on force and counterforce, in several forms, which at the end cancels out into nothing. They simply don't work as long as the permanent magnet or gravity doesn't change at proper intervals. And how should that happen without applying external energy?
Br.
Vidar
Yes, the trick was to let go of the crank very quickly after giving it a good turn. :)
I haven't seen anyone use an unbalanced rotor in any of those other experiments you mentioned though...the concept might well be worth exploring.
It would seem that by adjusting the location of the sticky spot relative to gravitational forces would allow for the momentum gathered by the unbalanced rotor carry the rotor past the sticky spot with force with each rotation?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on April 19, 2008, 06:15:43 AM
Yes, the trick was to let go of the crank very quickly after giving it a good turn. :)
I haven't seen anyone use an unbalanced rotor in any of those other experiments you mentioned though...the concept might well be worth exploring.
It would seem that by adjusting the location of the sticky spot relative to gravitational forces would allow for the momentum gathered by the unbalanced rotor carry the rotor past the sticky spot with force with each rotation?
Regards...
What you call the sticky spot is not really sticky, like glue or other frictional agent might be sticky. The stickiness is nature telling you, "energy out equals energy in minus losses to friction, she canna give no more cap'n." So it is impossible to move the sticky spot, because wherever you put it, that's where it will be.
The shifting of the 'sticky spot'(something I thought to be common knowledge here) by itseld is redundant.
Adding elements such as gravitational forces and the momentum gathered by the unbalanced rotor however require more consideration.
Not to dwell on a negative, but I've have learned 2 things after making many mistakes...never say never...and nothing is impossible.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on April 19, 2008, 05:06:05 PM
The shifting of the 'sticky spot'(something I thought to be common knowledge here) by itseld is redundant.
Adding elements such as gravitational forces and the momentum gathered by the unbalanced rotor however require more consideration.
Not to dwell on a negative, but I've have learned 2 things after making many mistakes...never say never...and nothing is impossible.
Regards...
You're probably right, but 1 - 1 is still nothing. However, I made a mistake when saying that 1 + 1 is 2. In my situation 1 + 1 is 4 - me (1), my wife (1), and two kids ;)
br.
Vidar
I didn't think about it before bur this shielding idea is exactly the kind of shielding that Lloyd Zirbes used in his 'Flux-o-matic'.
The shields around the magnets on the rotor and the stator releases mostly just the repelling forces what makes the device work.
The blueprints and cad assemblies of the flux--matic are here: http://www.fdp.nu/zirbes/default.asp (http://www.fdp.nu/zirbes/default.asp)
The most asked question I get is: did someone make the FLux-o-matic yet? And I must answer: not that I know. The only one who build it, was Lloyd Zirbes himself, accoording to the interviews I heard.
Eric.
Thanks for the link eavogels...
He was also a geomagnetic researcher...here is what he had to say aboutf HAARP...
" Zirbes strongly opposed the technology utilized in the HAARP system. He wrote, 'Disruption of the Earth's magnetic field will complete damages to the planet's balance done by the government nuclear bomb blasts in the natural radiation belts above the ionosphere. Earth's magnetic field keeps the planet in balance with the moon and sun. Disrupting the field will be the last straw in sending Earth into the sun or out into space."
Regards...
Now and then people contact me that they cannot read the figures on the drawings of the Flux-o-matic.
I now invested in proffesional scanning and I put the drawings here:
fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files\Flux-o-matic\ (http://fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CFlux-o-matic%5C)
I am just starting to experiment with shielding, so I would appreciate any comments on my conclusions so far.
For the record, I am not a nay-sayer, but an engineer seeking the same thing the rest of you are.
But after looking at the above youtube shielding video, and investigating the Perendev concept, right now my data and gut instinct are telling me that shielding does not bring us any closer to over unity.
Shielding definitely insulates magnetic fields and creates an asymmetrical field around a magnet, but all this is doing is a combination of attenuating part of the field and shifting the location and geometry of the field. A rotor magnet traveling through the flux field still appears to face equal net attraction/repulsion force when entering then exiting a field.
This also passes my sanity (?) check, if you consider that even the most complex magnet and shielding arrangement still has a definable set of flux lines which all start and end at the magnet assembly. Whether a moving magnet is going straight through the field, on an arc, or non-linearly. It still passes the same flux density going in as it does going out.
Experimenting with Perendev-type magnets (and believe me, it's not easy cutting or grinding neodymium), I find that the shielding does allow the two magnets to approach more easily from one direction. But as they approach the same axis, the resistance is amplified, greater than if the magnets were unshielded. The total net force appears to be the same for the rotor moving in either direction. If the Perendev concept is sound, we should be able to isolate the concept with just two magnets.
So far I am still looking for evidence of a true magnetic 'gate', where force in one direction is different from the other.
Please let me know if you have some experiments that prove me wrong. I'm looking forward to sharing and learning from everybody.
Bob
<sorry, accidently duplicated previous>