???
Could someone please comment on this video?
.. George Green Magnetic Motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgyY47duCM&feature=related
.. More here: http://projectcamelot.org/magnetic_motor.html
I have searched the OU site, but found very little.
Cheers :)
Yada ..
Hi,
All the rotation comes from his hand holding the ring shaped line of magnets...
You can see this best at 05:31 when everything is relatively at standstill: no hand movements for some seconds while the 'rotor' is in the upright stationary state. Then the rotor loses its balance and gravity starts it slowly rotating in the unbalanced state.
rgds, Gyula
Quote from: Nomen luni on April 18, 2008, 06:30:13 PM
I tried building one with no success. The only major difference is that the central magnet in mine wasn't mounted on a ball bearing. I would like to see video of it moving without a person holding the outer ring. It's quite easy to feed energy into these kind of things (wittingly or unwittingly) with a slight move of the hands. Although he says the central magnet is just a speaker magnet, it looks like something more to me with that segmented appearance.
The segmented magnet seems to be a multipole disk magnet (each segment next to the other is a different pole, NSNSNSNS) usually such magnets are not used in speakers but in floppy drives motors.
I am sure when the hand is replaced by a fixed holder, the initial rotation will soon stop.
There is no vortex (there cannot be) in those magnets in their ring like setup, only handmovement gives some light pushes to the segmented 'rotor' magnet.
rgds, Gyula
In tha past I tried it with a round magnetic ball instead of a ball bearing and it does indeed spin.
Regards...
First this motor is called Hamel motor, and this not work!
What make the rotor spin? The hand of the person that hold the magnet, with a fixed rotor, nothing will move unfortunitly.
If memory serves, I had to use both hands to keep it on a very small 'sweet spot'...it just occurred to me that I didn't have to chase it like on the video.
I'm not sure but mine may have spun slower.
I may have to revisit that arrangement again,
Regards...
@ALL
Many thanks for the replies. It sounds like some are still investigating this device.
At this point I'm mostly curious about the missing stator magnet and implications for something like the WhipMag. Also, while working with TriForce gates in a loop we tried removing one gate, and the Green/Hamel device reminds me of this. OC is experimenting with a TriForce-WhipMag hybrid, and perhaps something will come from that.
Cheers :)
Yada..
George Green is a disinformation artist.
Yes he is. He knows well how this work, and why it doesn't work when fixed on a shaft. Just replace the steel ball support with a spike, and it will not run even if hand held magnet.
Loudspeaker magnets:
Be cautious of these. They can be magnetised in a very peculiar fashion. Note that the voice coil will drop into a round slot, and the magnet field must lie across this. Often the field experienced is just stray magnetism that does not need to be there.
Paul.
The Hamel Spinner has been around along time and most people in these forums have played with it at one time or another.
Must admit I still think there is something there, it just needs another approach that has not dawned on us yet.
I played with the Hamel Spinner a while back, but never made a video, but after a few emails here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rumz8m9c7qY
Cheers
Sean.
My arrangement was 1 large and 1 small donut magnet in combination with 1 round ball magnet, looking very much like your second arrangement.
Were you uning a bearing or a magnet in the video... and did you mount it on a plastic axle as suggested ?
Regards...
Quote from: CLaNZeR on April 19, 2008, 04:00:59 PM
The Hamel Spinner has been around along time and most people in these forums have played with it at one time or another.
Must admit I still think there is something there, it just needs another approach that has not dawned on us yet.
I played with the Hamel Spinner a while back, but never made a video, but after a few emails here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rumz8m9c7qY
Cheers
Sean.
CLaNZeRMany thanks, mate.
...Q: Green's device was missing a magnet, and do you think that matters?
Cheers :)
Yada ..
Quote from: Yadaraf on April 19, 2008, 06:44:36 PM
CLaNZeR
Many thanks, mate.
...Q: Green's device was missing a magnet, and do you think that matters?
Cheers :)
Yada ..
Hi mate
In the video I first show it with all 16 magnets in the holder and then towards the end I remove one and do the tests again.
No difference must admit :(
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on April 19, 2008, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: Yadaraf on April 19, 2008, 06:44:36 PM
CLaNZeR
Many thanks, mate.
...Q: Green's device was missing a magnet, and do you think that matters?
Cheers :)
Yada ..
Hi mate
In the video I first show it with all 16 magnets in the holder and then towards the end I remove one and do the tests again.
No difference must admit :(
Cheers
Sean.
CLaNZeRD'Oh! :-[ I can't believe I missed that. That's what I get for multitasking.
Cheers :)
Yada..
Quote from: Nomen luni on April 19, 2008, 08:07:29 PM
@Clanzer- <sorry, a bit off topic> What happened in the end with all the Steorn/Whipmag stuff? You were doing a replication attempt at one point weren't you?
Hi
I played with the OCMPMM/Whipmag for a few weeks like others, but never got the effect that AL showed. Tried many configs and got as close to the original design as I could.
Final video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZXX2f4-ojU
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: Nomen luni on April 20, 2008, 05:40:50 AM
Thanks for the update, Sean. There's some quality engineering in that build!
So I take it you didn't see anything 'anomalous' at all? What was your gut feeling regarding the original in the end? Alsetokin disappeared, didn't he?
Al is still knocking around and posted this week over at http://www.fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?t=306&start=300
The Jury for me is still out on whether what we were seeing was real or not must admit.
I think the AGW effect was interesting and when it latched there was an initial acceleration in the Stator magnet but never the Rotor.
All good fun though and still got all the bits and bobs if anything new comes to light.
Another Video with Static arrangement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94UAGHXyPI
Cheers
Sean.
One more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-cj4TQbprM
Many thanks Sean for these final
video tests.
So the final word about this kind of spinner must be:
It only works from the moving input of the hands of the experimentator.
Many thanks for these tests so we can move on to a different device.
Yep final conclusion is you need to use your hand to keep it in motion.
You can get it to a good speed by moving the top magnets and lay it static, it can spin for upto 10 minutes but ALL come to a stop eventually.
I was not going to post any more video's but had an email from someone stating that it was so obvious that I was using an Air Line to keep it going. ???
Well here is the last video showing it enclosed. Like the others it will eventually stop but the Ball Bearing on glass creates very little friction and hence the long wind down times.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gtj0giqmuj4
Better results are gotten by NOT removing one of the magnets and keeping it closed loop.
People have got to realise that by even seeing 2 or 3 minute videos on YouTube of so called PMM's is that there is a thousand desings that will give long Wind/Spin Down times, anyone can create this. But so far they all eventually stop.
Now all we have to do is find one that does not stop ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 20, 2008, 11:40:19 AM
Many thanks Sean for these final
video tests.
So the final word about this kind of spinner must be:
It only works from the moving input of the hands of the experimentator.
Many thanks for these tests so we can move on to a different device.
Hi,
I have scanned this thread for the same analysis as mine and I did not see a similar take on the device, so here goes:
To put a finer point on the device:
A. The ring of magnets serves to help provide a vertical 'hold' to the axis of the spinner. Statically, you can hold the spinner vertical (axis) to the table, desk, whatever. If the ring mags are strong enough the spinner does not need to 'spin' to stay vertical.
B. Device will not work if the Spinner's axis is sharp-pointed or in a bearing.
B1. Spinner contact with table must be a spherical surface in contact with the table or a small diameter, flat end (flattened point).
C. The effect is a delicate concert played out by the interactions between friction, linear motion and gyroscopic precession.
Cause & Effect:
1. The ring holds the spinner central and vertical from above (the spinner is trying to hang from the ring).
2. Stationary ring
tends to cause the spinner to spin vertical as the surface in contact with the table causes the spinner (gyro) to nutate (see definition:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutation)
3. As the ring is translated (moved) horizontally by the experimenter, the friction of the spinner's contact point on the table causes a resistance of the spinner to translate horizontally with the ring across the table thus imparting a 'tilting'
force to the axis of the spinner (gyro).
4. The spinner (gyro) precesses (see definition:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscopic_precession#Torque-induced) in response to the 'tilting'
force causing the spinner (gyro) to 'tilt' 90 degrees to the applied force.
5. The leaning causes the contact point between the spinner axis and the table to NO LONGER be a point (in effect) but is now a small diameter contact, or minor circle (if spherical), or a circumferential 'edge' (if round and flattened ... not pointed). As the motion of the ring continues, precession of the spinner (gyro) continues to lean (precess) in in the same direction.
6. In effect you have a 'wheel' or 'tire' on the table (albeit slanted a great deal) slowly driving the axis along 'beneath' the spinner in the direction of the ring's movement while the ring is keeping the upper portion of the spinner central to itself.
7. As you translate the ring horizontally, rotational force is imparted to the axis of the spinner by the friction between the end of the spinner axis and the table. Because this 'minor circle' is so small you have a 'speed increaser", in effect (just like a flywheel on a tiny shaft that you can spin to great RPM in a finger-to-palm swipe of your hands).
7a. It just so happens that the direction of precess and the direction of travel compliment each other ... thank goodness for the
right-hand rule of torque, spin, and precession vectors for gyroscopes.
8. If horizontal translation of the ring stops, the spinner nutates in position until friction brings it to a hault.
9. There is also a minor interplay between the precession and nutation but it is more complicated to explain
that than what has been laid out above.
"Well, there it is." (quote from Dr. Ian Malcolm - Jurassic Park)
Greg