for me eighty quid both ways i got to think about it
but i can feel your energy enthusiasm through the screen
dont worry bout the mot those guys dont have much to do with the engine
its easily concealed
I have an idea for separating the HHO into the 2 separate gasses Hydrogen and Oxygen.
[EDIT] I'm not sure if this would work, but the idea behind it is... Hydrogen has a positive charge, and Oxygen has a negative charge, am I correct ?. Would it be true to say that once the HHO has been cracked, the two gasses should flow through the water to the 2 oppositely charged guides ?. [/EDIT]
[DOUBLE EDIT] OOPS !... Almost forgot something. Those dots near the top of the water, are stainless steel gauses, that are connected to the gas guides.[/DOUBLE EDIT]
I was also thinking about using vacuum in one of my designs,. As I have noticed in some of the YouTube videos, the lowered pressure in the upper chamber, does seem to make the bubbles break away from the electrodes faster and allowing more contact between the water and electrodes.
Quote from: Bulbz on May 07, 2008, 01:53:38 PM
Hydrogen has a positive charge, and Oxygen has a negative charge, am I correct ?.
Not in gaseous form, no. Hydrogen is lighter than oxygen, though, so you could separate them with a centrifuge.
Hydrogen also a has lower melting and boiling points, so you could separate them by refrigeration.
Hi Bulbz,
I wish it were that simple, but the hydrogen and oxygen atoms combine at their respective electrodes and form hydrogen and oxygen molecules. In this case it would be hydrogen (H2) and oxygen(O2) gases. The gases are electrically neutral and would not be separated by electrical charges.
I think the vacuum idea might work .
Hey jikwan !...
When you say vacuum, do you mean something like this ?.
Quote from: ResinRat2 on May 07, 2008, 02:55:04 PM
Hi Bulbz,
I wish it were that simple, but the hydrogen and oxygen atoms combine at their respective electrodes and form hydrogen and oxygen molecules. In this case it would be hydrogen (H2) and oxygen(O2) gases. The gases are electrically neutral and would not be separated by electrical charges.
So I assume that is why neo-magnets have no effect on the HHO bubbles !.
It's a shame though, coz separating the hydrogen from the oxygen would make it far easier to make the engine run without petrol. It could eliminate the need for timing modification.
Yes it is possible to separate the gases.
But you have to isolate the electrodes which severely limits the gas production.
From what I've learned/seen the closer the polarities are, the more gas production happens. This is NOT an absolute! It's just what I've seen so far and other experimenters on YouTube describe as well.
Also, the rate at which hydrogen burns is MUCH faster than vaporized gasoline/petrol. Gasoline engines actually spark the spark plug before TDC (top dead center. the point where the piston stops going up and starts going down) because gas is slow to burn.
H2 or HHO (in sufficient quantity) would need the timing advanced so that spark happened @ TDC or sometime AFTER it so the explosion would not be working against the mechanics.
Keep experimenting!! :D
<See drawing> This is the experiment setup that hydrolysis was shown to me in H.S. chemistry.
Quote from: exxcomm0n on May 07, 2008, 07:28:45 PM
Yes it is possible to separate the gases.
But you have to isolate the electrodes which severely limits the gas production.
From what I've learned/seen the closer the polarities are, the more gas production happens. This is NOT an absolute! It's just what I've seen so far and other experimenters on YouTube describe as well.
Also, the rate at which hydrogen burns is MUCH faster than vaporized gasoline/petrol. Gasoline engines actually spark the spark plug before TDC (top dead center. the point where the piston stops going up and starts going down) because gas is slow to burn.
H2 or HHO (in sufficient quantity) would need the timing advanced so that spark happened @ TDC or sometime AFTER it so the explosion would not be working against the mechanics.
Keep experimenting!! :D
<See drawing> This is the experiment setup that hydrolysis was shown to me in H.S. chemistry.
Hmmm. I tried that one years ago, and seeing a significant amount of gasses was slower than the drying rate of paint. I suppose it could be practical if a few thousand volts were pulsed though it though.
bulbz
you make some very nice pictures!
what kind of software/programme you use?
why the need to seperate the oxygen?
there are 3 main views/theories about oxygen presence in the actual combustion chamber
1 the more the oxygen the more the rust (to valves+piston rings plus of course exhaust pipe
and silencer)
2 ive come across views saying "hho? no problem-nothing will deteriorate"
3 we NEED oxygen to help burn the hydrogen
how can you burn hydrogen without oxygen?
my (actually joe xogens) idea about vacuum electroysis is using the engine's vacuum
from inlet manifold very VERY powerful suction
your picture about the little fan---i posted the idea a few weeks ago on this site
hell if im going to dig it up
the idea was.............get a fairly high powered cell going (on the bench) and wire a fan to it
just a low powered (encased) belt driven fan
there you get vacuum
because its belt driven.............theres no posibility of electrical ignition to hho
bulbz
man! wered you get the idea no timing adjustments necessary?
ITS CRITICAL no way can you avoid it
hho ignites very fast compared to petrol/gasoline
jikwan...
I used good-old trusty MS Paint to do those pictures ;D.
The reason I was looking for a way of separating the gasses, was so that the hydrogen can be mixed with normal air, just like a petrol.
I was thinking about how quickly HHO combusts, due to it being a perfect mixture. I thought that maybe, just hydrogen could be fed to the air intake and because it would be a less than perfect mix, I was kind of hoping that this could be a way of slowing down the burn rate. If this can be achieved, it would eliminate the need for timing adjustment, and would make it far easier for the conversion of cars with fuel injection systems, especially the ones that have no distributor.
But all of the above assumes a water fuel cell that could produce enough gas to run an engine exlusively on water alone, so that we could tell the oil companies to shove their fuel where the sun don't shine :D.
Quote from: jikwan on May 07, 2008, 07:59:08 PM
bulbz
man! wered you get the idea no timing adjustments necessary?
ITS CRITICAL no way can you avoid it
Would your design produce enough HHO to power the engine exclusively without petrol ?.
[EDIT] I have had people asking me if the above question is possible [/EDIT]
jikwan... I sent you a PM. ;)
bulbz.......
no way can you avoid timing adjustment
the air thats sucked into combustion chamber has tons of oxygen
i cannot help myself, im real suspicious of your oxygen idea
Quote from: jikwan on May 07, 2008, 08:18:09 PM
bulbz.......
no way can you avoid timing adjustment
the air thats sucked into combustion chamber has tons of oxygen
i cannot help myself, im real suspicious of your oxygen idea
Hmmm... Yeah, good point. There would be tons of oxygen... Thanx for pointing that out to me, now I am very enlightened ;D... *Steve, quietly walks into the corner, and puts on a dunce cap :-[*.
Now... How would throttling be achieved ?... Is engine speed controlled be the usuall method of a choke valve, or do we use HHO production regulation of some sort ?.
still have to use the carburettor
disconnect petrol pipe from it (if your producing heavy hho from your cell by heavy i mean
2-3 litres a minute)
press foot on throttle and that should open up the air----to mix with incoming hho
i should add........
ive never been to that spot yet (throtteling on pure hho)
still in the realm of concepts/probabilities/possibilities/assumptions
bulbz...
dont know if my message got through....
skype PC to PC is the way
then we can thrash out this subject more efficiently
BREAKING NEWS... :D
My last attempt at making a large HHO cell all went a bit "Pete Tong", due to crap metal. :-X
But things are starting to get back on track... I was chin-wagging with a local mechanic last night, and I have managed to convince him to become a HHO believer.
He was that impressed, he wants a demonstration.
Lucky enough, he had a nice flat piece of 17" X 24" stainless steel sheet. For the price of a small jar of coffee (2 quid, in my language), that sheet of SS is now mine ;D.
I will be cutting it up into squares, later on today. Then at some point in the next couple of days, I will be going shopping for some acylic sheet, and other hardware. Then some serious experiments are going to commence 8).
I will keep everybody posted.
im suggesting make a "shallow " cell
meaning 1" height 6" wide 30-40 plates
hook it up direct to manifold vacuum electrolysis
tall canister
just my idea on my next prototype test