Hello all,
Well I'm back at it again. My last few fill ups at the pumps got me to thinking about new ideas. Its been a long day so I hope I can express this idea clearly enough for you. Its vary similar to something I was working on a year ago. So there it is.
First concept:
The idea starts with a simple pendulum as show below. The weight (round gray ball) at the end of the are it starting at the top at stage 1. Then with a little encouragement it start to fall to one side at stage 2. It continues at stage 3 but slowing do to it having to climb back up. Then at stage 4 it come to a stop just short if it start position. And obviously it start to fall back the other direction at stage 5.
At stage 4 it stops just shy of the start position. Given the most efficent ball bearing axle it will still fall short but it should be achevable to get really close. The "work" that would be needed to pull it all the way back to the start position is equeal to the amount of energy loss due to friction. This should be minimul but will still need to come from somewhere outside the penjulem.
Nothing new! .....
Note: sorry for the over sized image.
So now the question is how do we get the arm to reach not only its start position but continue over to the other side again? Maybe a SMOT?
But do SMOTs actually work? I don't know but from that I have seen on some of these post makes me question if they might. I do know a SMOT or what they call a TOMI track has a repulsion area at their entrances which prevent the projectile from entering the track/rail. They also have a sticky spot at the exit.
However it "seems" that if you insert the projectile into the track just after the entrance then it seems to travel towards the exit and continue to exit the track and roll free.
To try and keep this short I thought about bending the SMOT rails on the Y axis and adding it to the pendulum as shown in the graphic below. The red curved line represent looking at a smot from the side of the magnet rails. If you were to look straight down on them they would look like two parallel lines like those we see in all the SMOT videos. Theoretically the relation between all the parts should act the same as a traditional SMOT.
Basically the question is will the SMOT pull the end of the pendulum arm up in between the rails to its start position? Since at that point in the SMOT it(the magnet or ball bearing on the end of the arm, which ever) should be attracted to both rails and past the repulsion point at the entrance. Once its in between the rails it then "should" be pulled over the top and fall down again. And if a projectile in a SMOT can break free on a flat level plain then the pendulum should fall free without enough resistance added to keep it from reaching the SMOT again. Thus, repeating the loop. There are other dimensions that I could bend the smot rails that might be better but this is the first one I came up with.
I'm thinking the down fall of the design my Lay in where the end of the pendulum enters the smot. There may still be a repulsion area as it approaches from that angle. Anyways, its late and my brain isn't working (if it was even working in the first place?) Let me know what you think and when we find out why it doesn't work maybe it will inspire someone else.
Tim
Hi Tim,
I like this setup and I think it could be a candidate for continuous motion if the curved SMOT track proves to work just like a linear SMOT.
I would place the SMOT entry sticky point at around 9 or max 10 o'clock so that the ball should have still plenty enough kinetic energy to defeat it and I would make the leaving point at around 2 o'clock where the weight of the ball could already just defeat the output sticky point of the SMOT.
So this setup boils down to whether the bended SMOT behaves similarly like its linear ramp version? I do think that other magnetic gates like Graham Clarke's triangle gate or corner gate could substitute the SMOT because these seem to have sticky points at their entry points only? I am not a 100% sure here but remember seeing Sean or others videos on this triangle gate where the moving roller kicks out accelerating from the gate once it entered. Also I recall Bedini magnetic gate which has also a sticky point at its entry place which in all the gates cases could be arranged to coincide with the 9-10 o'clock place where the ball still has hopefully enough kinetic energy left to overcome it.
rgds, Gyula
I believe that the rotor (lever arm) can not meet any resistance as it approaches the rails (which ever rail setup you choose). It "needs" to be pulled into the rails 100%. I haven't experimented with rails enough to know if this would be possible. If I get enough positive feed back I may build this.
I would probably use a bicycle rim instead of the arm and fabricate the rails out of a flat thin piece of aluminum. The difficult part is building the structure to hold it all together in alignment.
So does anyone else have positive or negative input?
Tim
Quote from: nwman on June 09, 2008, 01:51:43 PM
I believe that the rotor (lever arm) can not meet any resistance as it approaches the rails (which ever rail setup you choose). It "needs" to be pulled into the rails 100%. I haven't experimented with rails enough to know if this would be possible. If I get enough positive feed back I may build this.
I would probably use a bicycle rim instead of the arm and fabricate the rails out of a flat thin piece of aluminum. The difficult part is building the structure to hold it all together in alignment.
So does anyone else have positive or negative input?
Tim
No one has gotten a SMOT to impart an object with more energy than the object had before entering the SMOT gate, so you have an uphill battle there.
Shurg',
Tell me about it. This is just a shot on the dark. We never know. I haven't seen anyone try a curved SMOT before.
I'm thinking the only part of this design that hasn't been tested to work is the point of entrance into the SMOT after the repulsion area. The question again is if the end of the arm will be attracted wards the rails at that point or if it will be repelled. Its one or the other but I don't know which and don't currently have the means to run tests. If it is repelled in even the smallest amount it will not work, but if there is the smallest amount of attraction it may have possibilities.
Doesn't anyone have input on whether or not it will be attracted or repelled at my suggested point of entrance?
Tim
Hello all,
Here are two videos on the tri-force gate to ponder on the question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCW6T7oKq2c and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy78fYvidAU&NR=1
That tri-force gate is interesting but I read the comments for the video and I agree that its inconclusive at best. I did a quick search form other tri-force gates and found this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt0zoHy46uo
The first few runs he does are very interesting because it "seems" he doesnt have to put much if any force on it to roll through and out the rail. I would wonder what this would do with my layout of wrapping the rail around the wheel. If there is any energy added it should simple be able to propel the the wheel around.
If I remember correctly there is a dead spot just before the entrance just after the repulsion zone and before it is attracted into the rail. Maybe this is where he is putting it when it looks like its not being acted upon by the magnets.
Tim