Hello all,
Here is some information from my test of principle for this kind of heater. The prototype was built by my cousin. He used two empty paint buckets. The first prototype was too big to be driven by small appliances like a driller. So we decided to build smaller one. Well this smaller one was eventually driven with small three phase motor of 1,5 kW. We have tried a few different liquids, including brake oil, motor oil, cooling liquid. But the best one was transmission oil (SAE 90). This one is obviously viscous enough to provide considerable heat. It couldn't be held in hands more than a few seconds (10 or so) of operation. On the other hand, this viscosity is to big since this motor could turn the inner drum at only about 1200 revolutions per minute. And judging from results, that is to slow. The results were as follows: the heater heated 12 l of water for a five degrees Celsius in 10 minutes; as in comparison to normal resistive heater of 2 kW, which heated same amount of water (12 l) in the same time (10 min) for 20 degrees Celsius. My heater in current design is obviously inferior. Even if I manage to construct a motor which will run the heater and it self without the grid, the temperature is still to low. This is not what I expected after reading let's say what Murray in his Encyclopedia of free energy has to say about this technology (a lot of heat at low RPM, heating 16 rooms for only 30 $ a month). I expect there is some room for improvement, especially in finding the right liquid, which won't need so much energy for turning the drum.
Any suggestions? I'm definitely open to them ;D.
Please, canyou post baisic drawings. Who iste Frenette ? What ist the principle ?
I do not find any basic info here in this forum.
Reagrds
Kator
Kator01
Run a search on friction heaters and you'll have all the info you need. Good luck
Dave
Quote from: idnick on September 18, 2005, 05:13:13 PM
Kator01
Run a search on friction heaters and you'll have all the info you need. Good luck
Dave
Unfortunately not all the info, otherwise I wouldn't be asking this question. Unless you know more than I do. In that case, I would appreciate if you would be kind enough to direct me in the right direction.
Hope this helps
www.free-energy.cc/
http:/www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/freeenergy.html
MECHANICAL HEATERS
There are two classes of machines that transform a small amount of mechanical energy into a large amount of heat. The best of these purely mechanical designs are the rotating cylinder systems designed by Frenette (USA) and Perkins (USA). In these machines, one cylinder is rotated within another cylinder with about an eighth of an inch of clearance between them. The space between the cylinders is filled with a liquid such as water or oil, and it is this "working fluid" that heats up as the inner cylinder spins. Another method uses magnets mounted on a wheel to produce large eddy currents in a plate of aluminum, causing the aluminum to heat up rapidly. These magnetic heaters have been demonstrated by Muller (Canada), Adams (NZ) and Reed (USA). All of these systems can produce more heat than standard methods using the same energy input.
Below are two patents relating to this technology that you might want to look up.
PATENTS
Frenette -USP #4143639
Perkins - USP #4424797
Resources: Patents
Most of these patents can be viewed at www.delphion.com/. This is a sample of inventions that produce free energy:
Tesla: USP #685,957 (1901)
Freedman: USP #2,796,345 (1957)
Richardson: USP #4,077,001 (1978)
Frenette: USP #4,143,639 (1979)
Perkins: USP #4,424,797 (1984)
Gray: USP #4,595,975 (1986)
Meyer: USP #4,936,961 (1990)
Chambers (Xogen): USP #6,126,794 (1998).
Quote from: idnick on September 19, 2005, 11:09:33 AM
Hope this helps?
Unfortunately it doesn't. What would really help would be exact specification (brand name or technical info) of the liquid (oil???) Frennete used (him or anybody else who succeeded in building this heater and get the right results). And in the info you provided this piece of information is missing (at least I haven't found it). Well, I assume the problem is in the liquid anyway, but I can be wrong.
Thanks for info and effort though.
Actually I do have the info about the oil he used but having trouble finding it. I'll get it off of my buddys puter sometime today. I e-mailed him the info awhile back so I should be able to retrieve it. I'll try to get it to you today ;)
OK This tells what oil he used. (Close to bottom of article) Hope this helps. (Didn't think I was ever gonna find it ) ;D
US Patent # 4,143,639
( Cl. 126/247 ~ 13 March 1979 )
Friction Heat Space Heater
Eugene Frenette
Abstract ~
A furnace or space heater is operable at low cost by a small electric motor which rotates an elongated cylindrical drum on a vertical axis, within an elongated cylindrical casing at a clearance of about one eighth of an inch in the annular chamber formed therebetween. A supply of light lubricant normally occupies the lower portion of the annular chamber but rises to fill the chamber during rotation of the drum. The casing is enclosed in a housing, having a fan chamber containing an electric motor and fan or blower. The motor shaft may rotate both the fan and the drum.
Description ~
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
It has heretofore been proposed in U.S. Pat. # 1,650,612 to Deniston of Nov. 29, 1927 to rotate a stack of discs relative to a coaxial stack of fixed discs on a horizontal axis within a casing to generate frictional heat in hot water flowing through the lower portion of the casing. In this heating device a supply of oil is contained in the upper portion of the casing to lubricate the discs and to float on the water at a predetermined level.
In U.S. Pat. # 3,333,771 to Graham of Aug. 1, 1967, a pair of vaned rotors are each enclosed within a chamber of a casing, and mounted to rotate in a vertical plane on a horizontal axis as depicted in FIG. 7 thereof. As in the Deniston patent water flows through the device and is heated by friction.
In U.S. Pat. # 4,004,553 to Stenstrom of Jan. 25, 1977 a single disc like rotor is revolved on a horizontal axis in a vertical plane, within a casing to heat water passing through the device.
SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
Unlike the above mentioned patents wherein thin discs or vanes, in single or stack configuration, comprise the rotor, in this invention an elongated, cylindrical smooth surfaced, inner drum is the rotor. The drum is rotated in a horizontal plane on a vertical axis within an elongated cylindrical, smooth surfaced casing, or outer drum, to form an annular sealed, liquid, chamber therebetween having a clearance of about one eighth of an inch. A quart of relatively light oil is captive in the annular chamber and at rest occupies only the bottom thereof. However upon rotation of the drum, by an electric motor of about one horse power, the oil rises to fill the chamber due to the pumping action of the drum.
Thus friction heat is generated not by two metal, or other, surfaces contacting each other, but by the contact of the opposing surfaces with the oil which not only lubricates but generates heat.
A portable space heater is formed by enclosing the casing and drum in the lower chamber of a housing and drawing ambient air inwardly and around the heated outer surface of the casing for fan discharge back into the ambient atmosphere by a large diameter, eight bladed fan driven by the drum motor, or preferably by a separate motor. For use as a furnace an air blower and separate electric motor blow ambient air around the casing for discharge into a heating system.
DESCRIPTION OF A PREFERRED EMBODIMENT
FIGS. 1 and 2 illustrate one embodiment of the friction heat heater 20 of the invention which includes an upstanding, hollow, cylindrical housing 21 formed of imperforate sheet metal 22 and having legs 23 for supporting it on a floor 24 of a building. The space heater 20 is portable and in the portable embodiment illustrated in FIGS. 1 and 2 the housing 21 is of predetermined diameter of about twelve inches and of predetermined height of about thirty-two inches.
Fixed within housing 21 by suitable brackets 25 and 26 is a hollow cylindrical casing, or outer drum, 27 which is of predetermined diameter less than the diameter of the housing, such as ten inches, and is formed of aluminum sheeting 28 for efficient transfer of heat. The cylindrical side wall 29, top wall 31 and bottom wall 32 of casing 27 are imperforate to form a sealed enclosure except for the filler tube 33, which is closed by a removable threaded cap 34.
The casing 27 divides housing 21 into the lower air heating chamber 35, which it occupies and an upper fan chamber 36, there being an annular air chamber 37 formed between the cylindrical side wall 29 of the casing and the coaxial, concentric cylindrical side wall 38 of the housing 21.
Air inlet means 39 is provided in the lower portion of the housing 21 in the form of spaced apertures 41 extending around the cylindrical side wall 38 and air outlet means 42 is provided in the top 43 of the housing in the form of apertures 44. The annular air chamber 37 connects the air inlet means to the air outlet means of the fan chamber 36.
A reversible electric motor 45 is mounted in the fan chamber 36 with an eight bladed fan 46 fast on one end 47 of the motor shaft 48, each blade being of about 25? pitch and the motor being about one horse power for rotating the shaft 48 at between 1800-3600 R.P.M.
The other end 49 of motor shaft 48 extends into the air heating chamber 35 to rotate the hollow, cylindrical drum 51 which is supported in suitable bearings 52 for rotating around the central, vertical axis of the casing 27 and housing 21.
The inner drum 51 is sealed and hollow and includes the top wall 53, bottom wall 54 and cylindrical side wall 55, the walls being of stainless steel. The exterior cylindrical surface 56 of the cylindrical side wall 55 is smooth as is the interior, cylindrical surface 57 of the aluminum of the cylindrical side wall 29 of casing 27 and the surfaces 56 and 57 are at about one eight inch clearance from each other to form a narrow, annular liquid receptacle 58 therebetween.
It should be noted that the annular liquid receptacle 58 is not a passage through which liquid to be heated is continually flowed, as in the above mentioned prior art patents. Instead it is a sealed chamber and is provided with a supply of liquid lubricant 59 such as a quart of No. 10 oil which normally rests in the horizontal space, or shallow liquid receptacle 61 between the bottom wall 54 of the drum 51 and the bottom wall 32 of the casing 27.
It has been found that the best results are obtained when the lubricant 59 is Quaker State F-L-M-A-T Fluid, Ford Motor Company Qualifications No. 2P-670306 M 2633F. Unlike prior patents, no water is in contact with the oil.
The motor 45 is connected to a thermostat 62, of any well known type by cord 63 and to a source of electricity by male plug 64 so that it is energized under the control of ambient temperature by the signals of the thermostat.
In operation the motor 45 drives the drum 51 at a substantial speed, which causes the oil 59 to rise up into the annular liqud receptacle 58 to substantially fill the same. The heat of friction between the inner drum 51 and outer drum, or casing 27 is transferred by the oil while it prevents wear on the surfaces 56 and 57 so that the exterior aluminum surface 65 of the fixed outer drum 27 becomes heated. Meanwhile the large diameter, multibladed fan 46 is drawing ambient air through the air inlet means 39, thence up through the annular air chamber 37 and past the elongated heated surface 65 for discharge through the air outlet means 42 back into the room.
As shown in FIG. 3, it is preferable to provide a separate electric motor 70, usually about 1/8 H.P. and driving an air blower 71, these being mounted in a lower air chamber 72 for driving ambient air upwardly in an annular flow path in chamber 37 from the air inlet means 73 to the air outlet means 74. Air outlet means is the intake duct 75 of a hot air heating system 76 so that the heater 20 becomes a furnace rather than a space heater, the separate electric motor 70 enables the thermostat 62 to initiate rotation of the drum until a predetermined temperature is reached in the aluminum outer drum 27, whereupon the thermostat automatically de-energizes the drum motor 45 while continuing to rotate the separate fan, or flower motor such as 70, to furnish hot air to the room or heating system 76 until the casing 27 cools to a predetermined temperature.
Here is a PDF File with building instructions ! ;)
Dave
This helps a little. I kind of forgot about this detail in patent text. When I saw it again, I remembered that I already tried to find/identify this liquid on the internet. I tried again today with the same effect. No success. Call me clumsy but ? :-[. Can you find it? I guess SAE/API classification would be enough. By the way, I live in Slovenia, Europe and I never saw this kind of oil here (Quaker State).
Hallo
I have this "plan" and video. It doesn?t help much, except it gives some ideas on how to build it. No real specifications.
Thanks to both of you
Anyhow, I was just wondering if any of you have built this heater and what the results are. If this was to be successful, I was going to build it in to a central heating system for my house. As it is now, this won't happen, unless of course I manage (hopefully with your help) to improve it.
i do not want to be a "Spielverderber",
but i had a direct telephone call with Mr. Max Johnston and the wife from Mr.Harold Schweiss
(Keelynet,whitepages),so you trust me or repeat my action:
Frenette-a fraude !!! (in search_ and then up to jail)
I do not like such guys.
We all can make artificial/precision faughts,but to destruct eventual (he took" some "money) people ?
Is there not a relyable/trust-/prove-able configuration/conception ?
There is the "ordinary" idea from Mr. Valkenburg or Mr.Jaques Bernier with a C.O.P. 4-4.5 (real !),
eventual to combinate with the Peter Rust Motor/generator-concept (when success C.O.P. min. doubling:but hypothesis !)
More difficult/risk; The McMurthy friction heater / +(?) Oskar Becker motor
Combination Oskar Becker motor/kelsey friction apparature
Lallemand(FR): Was zum Teutates sind ENGELER als UNITS? Viscosity ???
Quote from: lanca II on September 20, 2005, 08:09:59 PM
i do not want to be a "Spielverderber",
but i had a direct telephone call with Mr. Max Johnston? and the wife from Mr.Harold Schweiss
(Keelynet,whitepages),so you trust me or repeat my action:
Frenette-a fraude !!! (in search_ and then up to jail)
I do not like such guys.
We all can make artificial/precision faughts,but to destruct eventual (he took" some "money) people ?
Is there not a relyable/trust-/prove-able? configuration/conception ?
You are not "spielverderber" don't worry, and I totally agree with you. I only wish I had this information before I begun to play with this concept. On the other hand, I would probably try it out anyway. It is simple enough concept and it works. But as far as I can tell it is far from OU. Hell, it is far from "unity". In current state it is to far from normal electrical heater. That is why I asked the question. And I found out that the oil Frennete used does not exists any more. So I will go for its substitute. Who knows, maybe it will do better, I have nothing to lose (except time). Originally I intended to use it in combination with Adams or Bedini motor. That is why this concept is so appealing to me. It transforms mechanical force in to heat, not directly electricity. And I found out that Adams motor does not have enough torque to drive this gizmo. I'm talking about old Adams motor of course, Mark motors are different story, unfortunately not known enough. That is why I study Bedini now (but I will try Adams as well, just to se what it really does).
Quote
There is the "ordinary" idea from Mr. Valkenburg or Mr.Jaques Bernier with a C.O.P. 4-4.5 (real !),
eventual to combinate with the Peter Rust Motor/generator-concept (when success? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? C.O.P. min. doubling:but hypothesis !)
More difficult/risk; The McMurthy friction heater / +(?) Oskar Becker motor
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Combination Oskar Becker motor/kelsey friction apparature
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Lallemand(FR): Was zum Teutates sind ENGELER als UNITS? Viscosity ???
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
Can you please give more information about these combinations or at least post the links (if they exists). If the concept is better I would definitely like to try it out.
lanca II
Where's the link or links to back up your FRUAD claim against Frenette ?? ??? What do Mr. Max
Johnston and the wife from Mr.Harold Schweiss have to do with Frenette ?
Frenette-a fraude !!! (in search_ and then up to jail) What does this statement mean??
I also noticed that you have been very busy informing the world about this fraud (Number of posts 1) :o
We all can make artificial/precision faughts,but to destruct eventual (he took" some "money) people ? Any Proof of this statement?? Just a link would be fine. I'll read it.
And to kreten33
"Quote" I totally agree with you. I only wish I had this information before I begun to play with this concept.
My question is: Agree with what? and what information? ???
Anyway, lanca II, I'll be waiting for your reply and the links to research this fraud ::)
Dave
Quote from: idnick on September 21, 2005, 07:58:11 AM
lanca II
.
.
.
And to kreten33
"Quote"? I totally agree with you. I only wish I had this information before I begun to play with this concept.
My question is:? Agree with what? and what information?? ???
Anyway, lanca II, I'll be waiting for your reply and the links to research this fraud? ::)
Dave
Sorry, I should be more precise in quoting. I agree with this set of statements (except for the part of taking money, for I don't know anything about it):
" I do not like such guys.
We all can make artificial/precision faughts,but to destruct eventual (he took" some "money) people ?
Is there not a relyable/trust-/prove-able? configuration/conception ?"
You have to admit that there are a lot of frauds, especially in the area of free energy and health. And there are not much information about Frennete's heater, except for patent text and "plans" from Creative Science. Which is a bit odd, considering simplicity of the concept. I'm not saying Frennete is a fraud. I hope he isn't, because I like his concept. But if he is, I would definitely like to get next best thing. That's why I asked Lanca II about the men and concepts he listed at the end of his post. My search on them came out negative. I couldn't find anything useful on them.
But I would like to repeat the question to you; have you tried Frennete's concept or anything similar? If you have, what are the results?
kreten33
I was not trying to dispute you in any way. It was the message from lanca II that made me raise
an eyebrow. :-\ . I searched all over the web on this subject and even checked the names lanca
II mentioned and turned up nothing. It was kind of like wasteing my time, cause I've been trying
to find all I could about Frenette's heater for almost a year.
And you were right when you said there wasn't much info about it. I was quite concerned also
about there not being any info on BTUs with that unit. But Yes I am in the process of building
the heater. 9 inch rotor, 33 inches long. 3/4 hp motor. and going to use automatic trransmission
fluid or hydrolic oil. Not trying to build anything over unity. Just trying to stay warm ;D
Dave
PS Stay in touch like to know how things go with you
Quote from: idnick on September 21, 2005, 10:31:03 AM
kreten33
I was not trying to dispute you in any way.? It was the message from lanca II that made me raise
an eyebrow. :-\ . I searched all over the web on this subject and even checked the names? lanca
II mentioned and turned up nothing.? It was kind of like wasteing my time, cause I've been trying
to find all I could about? Frenette's heater for almost a year.?
And you were right when you said there wasn't much info about it. I was quite concerned also
about there not being any info on BTUs with that unit.? But? Yes I am in the process of building
the heater. 9 inch rotor,? 33 inches long.? 3/4 hp motor. and going to use automatic trransmission
fluid or hydrolic oil. Not trying to build anything over unity.? Just trying to stay warm? ;D
Dave
PS? Stay in touch like to know how things go with you
Same here (exactly to the point). And I will stay in touch. Right now, I'll go to hunt for oil.
(hope you will post your results, whatever they will be)
Quote from: kreten33 on September 20, 2005, 06:28:57 AM
Dave
This helps a little. I kind of forgot about this detail in patent text. When I saw it again, I remembered that I already tried to find/identify this liquid on the internet. I tried again today with the same effect. No success. Call me clumsy but ?? :-[. Can you find it? I guess SAE/API classification would be enough. By the way, I live in Slovenia, Europe and I never saw this kind of oil here (Quaker State).
Hi Kreten33. Quaker State is a Brand of automotive oil. Some consider it to be a premium brand, but it is still a car oil. So you could use any brand with a similar SAE value. Hope this helps. I am really keen on trying this out to have as an alternative/backup heating source.
Good Luck
Zenon
Quote from: aenon on October 05, 2005, 12:03:29 PM
Hi Kreten33. Quaker State is a Brand of automotive oil. Some consider it to be a premium brand, but it is still a car oil. So you could use any brand with a similar SAE value. Hope this helps. I am really keen on trying this out to have as an alternative/backup heating source.
Good Luck
Zenon
Hello Zenon,
Yes, I'm aware this is auto oil. But then again, as I realize through tests with my "prototype", not all oils were made equal (even those with similar SAE value). Seriously, there are big differences between different oils. Recently I acquired similar oil as stated in my question (and patent) from Ford service station. And yesterday I tested it. It performs a lot better than all other oils. So I decided to get made a serious heater (precisely made and balanced) and then I will perform serious test. That will take a week or two I guess. If it performs as expected (and it looks like it will) I will use it as my central heater.
Now I must decide between three principles / patent:
- Griggs
- McMurtry
- Frenette
Which one do you think is better? 3 ? 4 years ago there were some rumors Mr. Mcmurtry will issue and sell some plans for his heater. Anyone knows what happened?
Hey kreten 33,Lanca I,II,III is back !
I hope you had a good time,since my last comment .
How I see you think about the eventual use of the McMurty-Friction-Heater-Concept ,
so the best idea would be to call him,if he is alive, directly(You know:patent adress + whitepages).
The Frenette-Heater is,so easy the concept looks,probably(if you have got a real prototype than you can test it) only a physical orientation
(left/right side fluid movement) error,so that the produced Heater-prototype (Mr.Johnson)did not get
the expected effect,eventual by false motor-orientation !A-/Synchron ?
The best oil that humans can use is a natural oil,synthisizing theretimes not possible(costs !) :
Jojoba-oil
Hi,
has anyone got the friction heater working ?
I'd like to try myself and i would be very appreciative for more information!
I already studied the frenette patent, still i'am a bit unsure which is the best method.
Please Help!
DerTom and members:
Yup. I built the Frenette-Heater out of a hot water heater tank. Size of tank was 16 in. dia. I cut tank 26 inches for outside drum and 25 inches for inside drum. Then I cut a strip out of the inside drum approx. 7/8 in. (can't remember)and compressed it and welded it back together which gave me the 1/8th clearance between the tube walls. Then I circled burned a ring 16 inches inside dia. and 18 inch outside dia. X 1/8 thickness and welded that to the outside tube to bold the top with bearing retainer on the heater. Take note. Top plate was 1/8 x 18 inch dia Bottom plate with bearing retainer 1/8 X 16 inch dia. welded to bottom of heater. Then I circle burned 1/8 inch plates for inside rotor and welded. Balancing the rotor isn't hard. Just put the top and bottom bearings horizental on a couple of supports and spin it. When it stops put a mark on the top of rotor. Run a few beads of weld (For weight) on upper or lower plate. and spin again. What we are trying to do is not have the mark stop at the same spot but at different places each time. Anyway. I ended up with clearance problems.(which I blaimed on my welding buddy) and set the whole project aside.
Decided to build the James L Griggs heater. First I priced a round of aluminum 8 inches dia. X 12 inches long. Figured that would be enuf for 3 heaters. Ouch!! Over $550.00. No problem. Looked into building a smelter to cast my own junk aluminum. Bingo!!! Nice guys on the net showed me how to build the burner and kiln. Gotta thank them. Cost approx. $40.00 Ended up with a smelter that I could smelt 20 pounds of alum.at one time. Built it out of a hot water tank Wouldn't ya know :-)??
Back to the Griggs heater: I poured a 4 inch thick X 8 5/8 in. dia aluminum slug. Note: I poured it into the stainless steel tube I was going to use for the outside case of the heater. It sure was pretty. Then I Put the slug in the lathe and bored for the shaft. Note: Next time I'll pour with shaft in mold to save a lot of time. After pressing shaft through slug I mounted shaft with slug in lathe and turned slug down to 1/8 in. clearance of SS case.
Next I poured two aluminum end caps to complete the outside case. Then drilled and tapped for pipe fittings, machined for bearings, seal and O-ring grooves to seal SS tube. End caps were 10 inches in dia so I could run four all thread bolts to hold heater together.
First test was with heater filled with water and sealed.(Bad Plan) the rotor smooth, and a 3/4 hp 3600 rpm motor. Not enuf horsepower. Went with 2 to 1 ratio at 1800 rpm. Using a candy thurmator(SP) C-clamped to the case. In 20 minutes at 220 degrees F it blew seal out. Spooky!!! Anyway I took rotor out and bored it with holes and grooves Hooked it up with 2hp 3600 rpm 2 to 1 ratio and in short time was producing live steam and lots of water knock. I even had it vented. Next I'm going to auto trans. fluid and a radiatior.
I've got pictures of all this stuff and be more than willing to send to anyone who's interested. Be careful with this hot stuff. I think it can be dangerous. Well it's been good talkin to ya. Gonna have another beer and continue.
Dave
You might want to check out this video. This guy uses the same principle with water. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2464139837181538044&q=water+to+steam&hl=en
mbell
If you reread my post, you'll see that I mentioned James L Griggs. He is not using MY method. I am using HIS !!!!!!!!!
Dave
Dave
Sorry about that I did not catch the name when I read your post. I did think his heater was quite amazing.
mbell
Quote from: idnick on August 20, 2006, 11:20:01 AM
I've got pictures of all this stuff and be more than willing to send to anyone who's interested.
Could you upload them here, to the forum? Either individually, or zipped together?
Hi Dave,
would be nice of you,if you could upload a few pics in a ZIP archive
over here.
It could be, that with oil instead of water the efficiency of the Griggs
pump principle could rise and that Frenette has just seen this
with his heater version.
Many thanks and good luck.
In my researches I found this excellent site giving it a through check unfortunately, the conclusion is still up in the air...
http://ecosustainablevillage.com/friction_heaters.htm
Chris Gupta
Hello Chris Gupta,
the Frenette heater idea has become a flop !
The "vision",a cheap heater construction with a cheap heat production, did interest
me so ,as consequence,I phoned to the US to different people which has been
directly involved with the first prototypes and marketing steps !
I know also about the actual trial by the "fuelless-power"-people !
But:I never built a physical friction heater model !
My tip/link: try to reach the inventors like Frenette,McMurtry directly !
S
dL
@Mike
Hi Mike
Sure. I'll send a couple pics, but I ran into a warpage problem while building the unit, and set it aside. I think the Greggs hydrosonic device is a better option. Have a good day.
Dave
You can view the Griggs unit I built in the news section of this site.
If we develop cars that run on permanent magnet motors/electric motors in the future, they will need an efficient heater, since permanent magnet motors don't produce useable excess heat like a gas engine does to heat the interior of the vehicle.
There is an idea from a guy named Michael Huffman,US5419306 ,
a friction heater concept,from the images easy to replicate in 3D,
as motor I would use a magnet-motor
or ,you know, the Li Yng Tyan system,US5463914 !
S
dL
Ron(-ald) McMurty Friction heater:
Google:Ron Mcmurty,Friction
www.motherearthnews.com
search: "The Plowboy Interview:Rex Oberhelman" or enter with "Ron McMurty"
Whitepages:
Rex Oberhelman
Fairmont,MN (507) 632 4561
I only reached his answering machine,"HERE IS REX,...."but I think that he is alive !
He is or has been a user of the McMurty Friction Heater !
S
dL
p.s.: from the McMurty Patent publication: 25500 BTU per hour out with input
5,5A/115V = 632,5 W
25500 BTU X 0,293 = 7471,5W ! ( but C.O.P. ambient temperature dependant )
Some "seconds" before I spoke with Mr. Oberhelman :
a "Blue Ribbon Foundation" will do a "McMurty Heater" revival !
Probably this: www.blueribbonfoundation.org/
S
dL
p.s.:he also spoke of a comeback of his agriculture project.
So dear US-guys, please call to him for more detailed info
about the heater and plans and this "org"!
He also spoked about "McMurty Heater Technology" suppression !
He gave me the org-e-mail,
but I can not discover my own letters. ("so auf die Schnelle/Sauklaue-level")
Hello all,
I was searching for something else and happened to come across this website and thread.
I have spoken to Ron McMurtry at length on a few occasions. His heater not only worked, but was UL listed and independently tested to verify its efficiency. Ron really knew his stuff. He was a friend of Eugene Frenette as well.
Unfortunately he could not compete with established conventional furnace companies for cost. His furnace used three different motors; 1, 2 or 3hp depending on heat output requirements. It also doubled as a pump which he leased to an oil company to pump a well. The main advantages to his furnace was a)safe in operation b)minimal maintenance and c)even heat. Once the unit came up to steady state, the oil circulated through a heat exchanger at 176 deg F. This assured the ambient air would not dry out, and did not require outside air for combustion (obviously). It was well suited for greenhouses as well for the same reason.
There was no conspiracy to keep his furnace off the market, but let's face it, it's not easy or cheap to sell a brand new product. He eventually abandoned the project. I spoke with him about 4 years ago. At that time he was planning on selling complete plans for anyone wishing to build one, sell it or whatever they wish. Unfortunately I've been unsuccessful in contacting him again since that time. At the time he was ill so it's possible he's not alive now.
I too have dabbled in this type of heat. Below is a picture of a Frenette type heater that I never completed. The plan was to adapt a heat exchanger because the thing acts like a heat sink. The trick to making these work is extracting the heat. We used light weight spindle oil at about 500 RPM if I recall which yielded 385 deg F. One limiting factor is the flash point and breakdown temp of the fluid. It was an interesting project. We also started something similar to Griggs, but the funds needed to complete was excessive.
Dimensions of the heater are 16" dia x 20" tall I believe, made from aluminum cooking pots. It sits in the garage now. We are considering building another unit replicating more closely to McMurtry's design, although the Griggs type would be another possibility.
I don't say much about this in forums because people say it's not possible to be as or more efficient than a NG/propane furnace. However, Ron had his furnace tested and it was actually cheaper than NG for reasons he could not explain, nor could the lab. He had no reason to exaggerate to me as there was nothing to gain in it for him. Perhaps when Griggs' hydrosonic heater can be explained, maybe it will explain Ron's.
Trust me folks though, there's no suppression going on.
Well, here's another urban legend to digest :D
BTW, the stuff your read at fuelless.com about Frenette's furnace is pure crap. Ron laughed when I read their claims.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd54%2Fcorn_burner%2Ffrictionheater.jpg&hash=f07387763390dfaa57d80a433539759d30417105)
Hello to all:
Forgive my lexicon, I do not speak English.
I have constructed a heating type griggs, but it does not work, respect to stop 1/8 " between(among) the rotor and the exterior(foreign) shirt. We work with speeds of 1600rpm 2800rpm and 7000rpm.
We do not achieve valuable temperatures in short time.
The cylinder is 10 cm of diameter for 15cm width, the perforations are of 10mm of diameter with 8mm of depth, distributed in three rows in the whole rotating cylinder. I supported certain pressure, doing mas small the water exit that the entry with water pressure of current network(net). Can someone give me some idea of what happens?
Thank you
From Argentina
Rodolfo
I have an original Frenette - anybody interested?
Tom
test,just wanted a link back to this thread.
Quote from: dirk45 on June 22, 2008, 01:04:26 PM
I have an original Frenette - anybody interested?
Tom
Hello Dirk
Can you discribe from your experience with the heater
I am interested. If there is a cop>2 and better
Please PM me and we can discuss conditions.
helmut
COULD YOU COMBINE THIS WITH Frenette's heater?
Quote from: PYRODIN123321 on July 08, 2008, 05:36:42 PM
COULD YOU COMBINE THIS WITH Frenette's heater?
This reminds me of the "tornado in a can" and Viktor Schauberger's work. viz: Nick Cook's book
"The hunt for zero point". You might like to check it out.
Paul.
Why you should column any drawings?
_________________
Refrigerator filter (http://www.filter-outlet.com)
Good Luck for analytic for abrasion heaters and you'll accept all the advice you need.
here is a heater i have built and works very well. I get around 300F @ 100 watts
http://youtu.be/DQsY5nbgOhY
Nice design and implementation oilpiggy.
As you are probably aware the 300degrees F you refer to is only part of
a heater's specification. If you could come up with an oil to water heat
exchanger (maybe two racing engine oil cooling radiators back to back with
a fluid flow coupling) then heat water via the oil, we could compare your
units gain to resistive electrical heating, which is by definition has unity
gain = 1.
Unity gain electrical. => standard water heating.
1MegaWatt hour electrical resistive heating can raise 4000 gallons of water 100degrees
Fahrenheit in one hour.
If we could measure how much water your device can raise water by 100degrees F over room
temperature in an hour we could the see how your unit compares to a unity gain resistive heater.
I suspect the gain figure will change between a brand new or unused prime mover motor versus
an experienced electrical motor, so you may want to consider running the experiement with
both.
If you could show this figure maybe your unit would be able to be used as a prototype
for a commerical electrical water heater or room heater. I think, now that LENR results
are coming in, people would be less dismissive towards using a design like this once
the benefits are shown.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Thank you mscoffman.
I will have to wait until I get more funds/time and get a dedicated motor for it so I can run all the test I want to. I am building an Adams motor ATM so it is taking my hobby money for now ;D
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Quote from: Lilaiisiuuiii on June 03, 2012, 12:02:06 AM
This Post doesn't aiming to scam or to spam
I think it does.