Greetings CLaNZeR and all
Here is a possible design gravity wheel that uses a ratcheted pendulum and flip weights. This is not the any of the wheels that I am building. but it passes my drawing test to be a possible running design but there are never guarantees in this game. All are welcome to try, I like calling it the AB flip wheel, and it can be done with more than 4 flips as well but you flip units will have to be smaller from what is drawn.
Here it is the AB flip wheel design.
I don't get it.
How about this http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Home (http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Home) as a sim/animation engine?
Well broli
Sorry I draw like a blacksmith. Each of the flipper arms are simple rods bent or welded at 70 degrees and a 5 to 3 length difference and the shorter to have the heavier weight and the weight are 4 to 1 ratio. The pendulum need to be built with a ratchet on the axle where it catches in the clockwise direction and loose in the counter clockwise direction. The pendulum is extended far enough out to allow the weights to go behind it but the upper arm of the pendulum has a roller on a rod to help ease of the flip. Note here the mounting is on the flipper arms. This is to allow the best movement possible. The natural constant hitting will cause the pendulum to rock back and forth as well giving even more movement and ease of shifting possibility. The pendulum will have to be sized with the size of weights to be used used.
This should help clear up understanding of my drawing.
Is the upper part supposed to be like MT 13?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.besslerwheel.com%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa5%2FMt_013.gif&hash=206dc19d89be7a57877baa665a45eeec50953ea1)
As in that it pushes the weight so it gets up.
@broli
In the MT13 the flips have to use the pendulum solely. The flip arms are designed to be an ease of flip. Not being ease of flip for the MT13 was part of its downfall. Now when you add the ratchet in the center of the pendulum that add even more possible power to drive. Also note on the ascending side. The longer arm with the smaller weight is tucked under the axle. This help re leave the weight of the pivot of the arm and not once flipped the weight is planted to the outer wall of the wheel. This means that it will need a rim or stoppers.
Barrowed from the wiki pages of Besslerwheel.com The statement from Bessler about the MT13 and this design of mine addresses IMHO what Bessler meant to make a newer workable design like.
"No. 13: This is a new weight-invention, with no belts or chains but each weight is separate and free except that each has an interval arm C with which it forms an angle, and on the cylinder hangs a figure which has below a weight in the shape of a half-moon and above a small wheel B over which the arms C sweep and lift themselves up at D. This invention would be very good for running if not so much friction were present or someone was available up by D to always lift up the weight with lightning speed."
- Johann Bessler
So this is why I picked this one of my designs to for this string.
I like this one AB, however I think the use of a sprague clutch instead of a ratchet would be better. much less friction, more positive lock.
ciao, Dirt
Nice AB, I like it.
Have you got any materials, dimensions or weight in mind?
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on July 25, 2008, 04:16:56 AM
Nice AB, I like it.
Have you got any materials, dimensions or weight in mind?
Cheers
Sean.
Hay Sean
Most wheel work I start off with 2 ft to 3 ft wheel blanks, so lets start with a 3 ft for this one. Oversize weights are not necessary, but we want weights that are comparable to the size of the wheel tested. So lets start with 2 lb and 1/2 lb for the flip arm weights. 1/2 x 1/2 or 3/4 x 3/4 square tubing steel for the arms. I cut my own weights from larger bar stock into short cylindrical weights to keep the weights a small as possible. The pendulum weight 5 lb should work fine for this size. On this design I would use 1/2 or 3/4 all thread and flange bearings and 1/2 or 3/4 ID pipe for spacers. Knowing that most people would have trouble making a ratchet gear. dirt diggler made a good suggestion and I believe an old 10 speed bicycle my have the gear you need in the back wheel. For the pendulum you will need flat bar stock to mounting the gear and weight on as well as the flip roller which can be a roller skate wheel mounted. I am not sure where you are out of so please send me an e-mail encase I may need to make a part for it.
This should give you a good start
AB I'm sorry but I still don't get it. Can you make some more drawings on what happens to those stoppers. And on what exactly is the 70? bar attached to, did you forget to draw pivot points? And is the wheel hollow or something? At 6 o'clock something strange seems to happen which changes its nature.
Mulling this one over in my head here.
Okay for the weights I have been looking at these for the arms:
http://www.mightonproducts.com/catalog/sash-weights-makeweights-c-1_5_17.html?osCsid=7ffc8340519183bd33c7db12c720970d
For the ratchet
http://www.mightonproducts.com/catalog/stackable-lead-weight-p-772.html
Plenty of 3/4 inch tubing here and a welder at the ready for the arms. (even though my welding skills suck!, so do not expect pretty!!)
I have some 3/4 flange bearings also here and 3/4 Steel bar.
Good idea for the bike wheel mechanism for the ratchet, or what about a simple Socket set ratchet that can be adapted?.
My concern now is the wheel, what material should it be made of?
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: AB Hammer on July 25, 2008, 05:13:39 AM
Hay Sean
Most wheel work I start off with 2 ft to 3 ft wheel blanks, so lets start with a 3 ft for this one. Oversize weights are not necessary, but we want weights that are comparable to the size of the wheel tested. So lets start with 2 lb and 1/2 lb for the flip arm weights. 1/2 x 1/2 or 3/4 x 3/4 square tubing steel for the arms. I cut my own weights from larger bar stock into short cylindrical weights to keep the weights a small as possible. The pendulum weight 5 lb should work fine for this size. On this design I would use 1/2 or 3/4 all thread and flange bearings and 1/2 or 3/4 ID pipe for spacers. Knowing that most people would have trouble making a ratchet gear. dirt diggler made a good suggestion and I believe an old 10 speed bicycle my have the gear you need in the back wheel. For the pendulum you will need flat bar stock to mounting the gear and weight on as well as the flip roller which can be a roller skate wheel mounted. I am not sure where you are out of so please send me an e-mail encase I may need to make a part for it.
This should give you a good start
Quote from: AB Hammer on July 24, 2008, 06:07:13 PM
Note here the mounting is on the flipper arms. This is to allow the best movement possible. The natural constant hitting will cause the pendulum to rock back and forth as well giving even more movement and ease of shifting possibility. The pendulum will have to be sized with the size of weights to be used used.
Is it possible to just weld a bit of steel rod onto the arms as in picture below?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.org.uk%2Fab%2Fab1.jpg&hash=f54afc3335e1552e2be13dd28a002a12d42ffa6d)
Greetings Sean
Yes welding a thick tab would work fine.
Since I brought this one out of my book, I started having some new thoughts to add, also since I found some of my notes for this design.
The pendulum should have the same weight as the combined weight of an arm (it just caries a longer leverage) and at the top of the pendulum an angle should be made to the 1 to 1:30 mark direction and a second roller added lower to the axle going out to the 11:00 position. There is allot more power at that point to start the flip. I was looking at a stall point. The other reason for this change is it will start rocking much better to work with the flipper arms.
You ask, My concern now is the wheel, what material should it be made of?
A good quality 3/4 plywood board or 3/4 high density counter top board. Forgive me for I forgot what its proper name is.
I would also use this type of stand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaEWQr28zO4
It would help distribute the weight of the wheel to both sides.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on July 25, 2008, 05:28:36 AM
Good idea for the bike wheel mechanism for the ratchet, or what about a simple Socket set ratchet that can be adapted?.
The socket set may not work for is also has a higher friction in most sets and it has to go around the Axle. There are some box end ratchets that can go around the axle but you would want it to be a smooth operating one.
Well I have armour to finish and I got to get to work. It is 5:30 AM here.
greetings all,
I am using public computer for my DSL modem is being replaced and should be back by Thursday. :'(
Quote from: AB Hammer on July 26, 2008, 10:45:37 AM
greetings all,
I am using public computer for my DSL modem is being replaced and should be back by Thursday. :'(
Good luck with your modem.
The wheel is a interesting concept.
Do you have any experience in practice?
helmut
any updates?
Quote from: gurangax on August 05, 2008, 01:07:13 AM
any updates?
Sorry to say not from me at the moment.
I need a clear run on this one of a couple of days to weld up pieces etc etc
Cannot do that at the moment as shooting off here and there doing stuff.
When back in a routine will crack on and have a go.
If only you could get paid for playing with this stuff, would make life and time more easy, but got to put food in the mouths other ways hehe
Cheers
Sean.
I have noticed one thing with a lot of these Gravity Wheel designs... The parts that do the pushing, nearly always seem to be near the outer edge, or or somewhere between the halfway and outer edge.
It is harder to stop a wheel from turning if you try to grab it at the axle, and that is why I have been trying to conceptualise a design that has all of the pushing parts, as near to the axle as I can get.
Keep up the good work guys. ;)
@Bulbz
You need leverage to get your power to the axle and in a gravity wheel, the further the weight is from the axle the more power at the axle their will be.
Quote from: AB Hammer on August 05, 2008, 10:01:46 AM
@Bulbz
You need leverage to get your power to the axle and in a gravity wheel, the further the weight is from the axle the more power at the axle their will be.
I think you misunderstood my point...
I don't mean put the weights in the centre. What I mean is have the cam and followers (or whatever method of actuation you intend on using) in the centre, and have cables or rods connecting the followers to the weights on the outer edge.
@Bulbz
Yes I do believe I miss understood what you meant.
But lets look at the wheels. I you want CF support for quick movements you will need it inline with the axle but out to the edge to get full effect for you shifts. But If you want little CF you will want it closer to the center. You have to understand how fast the shifts will have to be in a wheel doing just 60 RPM this means you if you have 6 weight shifts per turn you will have to make your shift in 1/6th of a second.