Hi All,
A little experiment that I tried just after I had finished making dinner on our propane outdoors BBQ last night.....
NOTE - DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
IT IS DANGEROUS. PROCEED COMPLETELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
THIS INFO FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY.
As we know, water will thermally "crack" into H & O under high temperatures, usually in presence of a metal catalyst like iron oxide ( rust ) or copper or platinum or nickel.
Last night I got my wifes water squirt bottle she uses for the ironing, and gave the BBQ quite a few squirts of tap water in varying water densities ( mists ). I also tried injecting water mist into the gas flow as it entered the burner body. I got some orange flame but not a lot.
Next I tried different levels of misting by adjusting the nozzle. I had limited success. Then I leaned the water mist right off and I must have hit the burner just right and WOOOOOMMPPHHF!!!!!!! - one large orange flame ball about the size of a basket ball.
Proof of concept confirmed. ;D
Now it occurs to me that if you could create a steel coil in the path of enough heat to get to about 1800F ( 900 C ) roughly, water will crack into H & O.
If you pumped water into the coil at one end, attach an expansion cyclinder of 2 inch diameter and 8 inches long the coil feeds into, and have an oulet pipe at the other end of the expansion tube so the H & O can be extracted, you could then feed & burn the H & O into a furnace and produce steam and create a home electricty generation plant using a simple turbine. The expansion tube should allow quenching ( stopping the H & O from recombining ). I thought of using copper tube but no copper solder will hold at 900 C, so maybe steel.
Interesting I thought.
Howdy PlasmaStudent77,
NICE experiment! Maybe you could inject steam into the combustion chamber and then use plasma to ignite it. This also leads into the concept of water injection into high performance race car engines that increases the performance radically. The already really, really hot engine converts the water vapor into HHO. Then when the spark plug fires the HHO enhances the combustion of the normal fuel, producing more than usual power. Cool! Do you have a test planned?
Blessed Be Brothers...
Howdy
I'm planning a few tests for different things. But this finding is apparently old news, but maybe I'm the first to post this info recently?
Either way, it leaves the idea open of self sustaining home power generation off-grid ( and wont The Man hate that...)
Very interesting! Can a person maybe use a gas furnace and increase it's output but just adding water? We would require less gas to burn for a shorter period of time because the water adds the extra heat? That would be a really cheap way to heat a home. Just modify the existing gas furnace if it has one. What type of gas were you using with your BBQ? You could even modify your BBQ to use water. You wouldn't need to fill the tank very often, you just need enough to combust the water which may be a third or less of the normal flame size without water. Smaller flame = less gas consumed. Is it just that simple, or am I missing something?
Hi
No I dont think youre missing anything. I think the biggest issue is how fast hydrogen burns, which is damn fast ( as I discovered ). One test when I was messing around a few months ago, I collected about a grapefruit size ammount in a plastic bag, dropped a match on it ...KABOOOOOMM!!!!!! Wife came running out, windows rattled, dogs barked........all at 9pm one week night............. LOL!!!!!!
But I suspect the key thing would be :
(a) getting a stable temperature with which to crack the water
(b) the shape of the nozzle and collector of the gas so the gas can be properly harnessed.
Actually, yuou have given me an idea.........
If you could get the cracking unit up to cracking temperture using propane ( or if you were ina 3rd world country, woods and abellows like a blacksmiths forge - ou only need enough heat to get steel red hot ) Then you need to have enough water going through to support both a fuel sorce for keeping the cracking aunit hot and additional fuel for running a boiler or heater burner, then in theory, heating a house is pretty much down to cents per gallon of water.
Think of how many people would be helped by this alone.........
Cheers
Steve
I have thought of doing the identical thing and coil a 1/4 " copper tube around the exhaust Manifold leading into an expansion Chamber that then feeds the steam into the carb or ports.
Then I would use a CD Ignition or the other the other method that is talked about on this forum using diode isolated DC injection parallel with your HV .
This steam should also be more efficient then a cold Water mist and who knows ..........
By the way if you burn just Hydrogen it does not have the highly explosive nature as Hydroxy as Kanzius experiment with Saltwater and RF shows. Hydrogen in his set up was burning gently as it is produced , if you did the same to Hydroxy it would implode violently.
Professor
ob
Quote from: plasmastudent77 on July 31, 2008, 02:17:35 AM
Hi
No I dont think youre missing anything. I think the biggest issue is how fast hydrogen burns, which is damn fast ( as I discovered ). One test when I was messing around a few months ago, I collected about a grapefruit size ammount in a plastic bag, dropped a match on it ...KABOOOOOMM!!!!!! Wife came running out, windows rattled, dogs barked........all at 9pm one week night............. LOL!!!!!!
But I suspect the key thing would be :
(a) getting a stable temperature with which to crack the water
(b) the shape of the nozzle and collector of the gas so the gas can be properly harnessed.
Actually, yuou have given me an idea.........
If you could get the cracking unit up to cracking temperture using propane ( or if you were ina 3rd world country, woods and abellows like a blacksmiths forge - ou only need enough heat to get steel red hot ) Then you need to have enough water going through to support both a fuel sorce for keeping the cracking aunit hot and additional fuel for running a boiler or heater burner, then in theory, heating a house is pretty much down to cents per gallon of water.
Think of how many people would be helped by this alone.........
Cheers
Steve
i think there is an idea simular to this floating around somewhere concerning a pre-catalytic converter whereby the intake air charge is superheated making the fuel mixture more combustible(atomized) in the process...instant fuel supplimentation(just add water 8)
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:PICC_Pre-Ignition_Catalytic_Converter just add water ;)
Hi,
I found this which seems to confirm my experimental findings :
The water hit the BBQ gas burner, which was pretty much red hot.
The burner was iron ( with a lot of rust, which is even better for water cracking ) and the water would flash into steam.
You need to constantly draw the hydrogen out of the tube, which if you had the output of the tube connected to the inlet manifold of your car engine, the inlet manifold on a running engine always runs at a vacuum, so it will suck the hydrogen out. I'd suggest to make sure the hydrogen is drawn into the engine using a tube inserted close enough to the engine ( maybe just before the throttle body butterfly valve if you have an EFI engine, or mounted just above the main jet if car has a carburetor ) so the hydrogen is sucked quickly and safely into the engine as soon as its produced.
WARNING - Hydrogen is highly explosive.
This information is for information purposes only.
Hi, plasmastudent77
your exp so interesting and so via for me,
I'm working in steel mill that have casting machine.
Normal process, water is inject directly to hot steel ( around 1300-1500 degree C but 1530+up at liquid core )
to cool down and make liquid steel steel more solid
If your exp. was happen here, I will not imagin for. :P
So temp and iron oxide will not be only factor for this incidient,
it must have something else,
so keep working on. please.
regard,
zzzz
Too bad man ...
U need at least 2000 C :o
900 C will make water just vaporise .
check out this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czoxOqZ8rxk
burning super heated steam.
but from your exp,
it relate to some incident here,
when steel arc furnace have water leakage from water cool panel we alway have small explosion, we conclud like this, if water can go under liquid steel, like water contain in gas tube drop in to furnace, it can explod from thermal expansion and phase of water rapid change to vapor. but have some time explosion from water were too strong, like a boom. we don't understand what happen, so we still think it is water expansion boom...
until i found your exp, so please working on, thanks in advances,
zzzz
From what I understand, the metal oxide ( i.e. rust ) actually works as a catalyst and lowers the cracking temperature to the 1000 degree mark.
But heres what gave me the original idea: http://www.rexresearch.com/celis/celis.htm
The system your describing sounds just like Paul Pantone's GEET system. In his system, fuel and water are feed through a fuel line that runs through and against hot engine exhaust in your exhaust manifold. It is superheated and cracks when it passes over a stainless steel rod in the fuel line, than the resulting fuel vapor is feed to the engine through a modified carburator. The PICC is just a newer copy of his invention, and Paul Pantone is currently in jail. Just Youtube Paul Pantone GEET.