HI guys anyone used this circuit?Is this good?
Cause I am doubting this circuit cause it's not giving me Bemf
If anyone used this circuit please let me know.
Thanks.
Howdy Gurugi,
That doesn't look like a circuit to me. That looks like a schematic. Just a pretty picture. Electrons do not flow in a schematic. Schematics do not produce Back EMF. You should take a picture of the circuit and post it...
Blessed Be Brother...
Hi Guruji,
Yes, IMHO, your circuit schematic is good.
Here is the circuit schematic I used for my Bedini's SSG motors energizers.
The R1 and R2 resistors may vary...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FBedini%2FReplications%2FBedini_SSG_init.GIF&hash=c65c3830ffbe8237d15e1a1629d85ba6297f279b)
The neon bulb is not indispensable is you always connect the "battery to be charged".
My respects to Z-monkey.
Best
hi guruji
first i must say that my old friend NerzhDishual has built this circuit and i haven't, so his experience will always be more 'fruitful' than mine on this question
i have used a similar coil switching circuit (not with a motor) and so perhaps i can make a few comments which you might find helpful
i assume both batteries are 12V AND the motor can run continuously whilst the circuit is connected to the drive battery?
you say you're not getting B-Emf - what measurements make you think you're not?
can you confirm that the 2N3055 is switching current on & off through the 'black' coil? how do you measure this? meter or scope?
check your 2N3055 is not showing low resistance (few ohms or 10s of ohms) between collector & emitter (disconnect from circuit first)
if you're using a scope
=======================
connect a neon across collector & emitter of 2N3055 (as NerzhDishual shows in his schematic/circuit), then disconnect the 'battery to be charged' and run the wheel & circuit
you should see positive spikes on top of the left-hand edge of the 'square' pulses at the junction between the 'black' coil and the collector of the 2N3055 - you may also see the Neon glow
if you're not even seeing 'square' pulses of 12V or near then this might explain why you're not getting B-Emf - current is not being switched on & off through the coil - therefore no B-Emf
if you don't have a scope
=========================
try replacing the 'battery to be charged' with a 2K resistor and replace the 1N4007 with an LED and run the wheel & circuit
does the LED light?
reverse the LED and run the wheel & circuit - does the LED light?
if the LED lights in both connections then you're getting switching AND B-EMF
if the LED lights in only one connection then you may be getting switching but no B-Emf (or the transistor is blown!)
if the LED doesn't light in any connection then you're not getting switching - so you won't get B-Emf!
if you're not getting switching you could try swapping the leads coming from the 'red' coil & retry the tests i've just mentioned (or again, the transistor may be blown)
let us know what the results are from these tests
good luck
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Thanks Sandy for your help yes I will do those tests that you told me.
Hi Nerzhdishual that schematic is nearly the same as I posted only a neon included?
Does a neon makes that difference to charge batteries?
Thanks guys very appreciated.
@Guruji
This schematic is the very one of the J. BEDINI SSG 'energiser'.
It is just redrawn from J BEDINI (with and added potentiometer).
It is not from me. I guess I found it in this forum.
I do not remember where...
The neon bulb has no effect on the charging process.
It is only here for protecting the transistor when/if the charging bat
is disconnected. It only glows when this bat is disconnected and could
be an usefull indicator of the functioning of the 'energisers'.
Best
So if I disconnect the charging battery with that schematic of mine the transistor would blow up?
Thanks Nerzhdishual
Quote from: guruji on July 31, 2008, 02:59:20 PM
So if I disconnect the charging battery with that schematic of mine the transistor would blow up?
not necessarily - the neon is there as protection just in case - it would depend on how large the spikes are, how long you operated the circuit without the battery to be charged, the voltage rating of the actual transistor used, etc
but since there is a good chance of damaging the transistor without a charging battery connected it is best to have the neon connected
PS if you do the LED tests above, it's a good idea to check the LED first - i'm sure you would do this anyway!
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Hi Sandy I did those tests and yes the led lit up on both sides even when turned the other way.
Is there a way to measure the Bemf now?I will do the neon now.
Nerzhdishual it's better to use 10ohm resistor than 680ohm with the variable resistor?
Thanks guys.
Andrew
hi Andrew
if you are getting Bemf with the circuit as you showed above, then it will be difficult to see as voltage on a scope and difficult to measure as current with a meter:
the Bemf collecting diode (1N4007?) will limit the voltage across itself to around 0.6V - so if you do have a scope & can turn the Y gain up to say 0.1V/div you may see a short pulse, around this voltage, measured across the diode every time a magnet on the wheel passes the coils
although the Bemf pulse voltage has been limited to around 0.6V, the current is not limited by the diode so the Bemf current will flow into the battery - and the impedance of the battery to the pulse will limit the current
it will be difficult to measure the Bemf current with a meter because it is unlikely that a regular meter will give a true reading of such a pulsed waveform
if you have a scope you could try adding a small-valued resistor (measured) in series with the Bemf diode & 'battery to charge' - with a 'data-logging' type scope it is possible to get the average of the pulsed voltage across the series resistor and then work out the average current thro' the resistor - hence find the Bemf current
another way would be to replace the 'battery to charge' with a large value capacitor (the largest you can get at a rated voltage greater than say 40V - connect a variable resistor in parallel with the capacitor
what value of the resistor just keeps the voltage across the capacitor at around 12V?
this will give you an indication of the amount of load that the Bemf circuit can drive - 12V / (resistor value) will give you the average Bemf current into the resistor load and then you can work out the power (& energy for a length of time)
remember that if you use a polarised (eg electrolytic) capacitor then the +ve terminal must go to the Bemf diode shown in your schematic/circuit and the -ve terminal to +ve voltage rail (just like the battery connection)
hope this helps!
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
HI Sandy thanks for your response.
How long does it take to charge a 12v battery with this pulse motor?Example I have a car battery showing 10v would this take long to be charged by this motor?
Does anyone have a time rate about charging of these motors?.
Thanks.
Quote from: guruji on August 03, 2008, 10:29:28 AM
How long does it take to charge a 12v battery with this pulse motor?Example I have a car battery showing 10v would this take long to be charged by this motor?
well, this is going to be dependent on the Bemf of your particular setup - and the AmpHour rating of the 12V battery you're trying to charge
i guess this brings us back to your initial request re: measuring the Bemf of your rig - how long would the power provided by your measured Bemf take to supply at least the energy equivalent to the AH rating of the battery? once you've measured your average Bemf current you can do the math to find the time
Also, since presumably this design is supposed to have some overunity performance, is there any power gain achieved in the pulsed-recharging by the motor which means you supply less energy than a full recharge requires? someone with experience of the the Bedini SSG will have to help you out here
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Today I included a neon to the circuit but when disconnecting the charging battery the neon did not light up why is this?
MAybe I did not put the right neon?or there is not much bemf to light up?
Sorry for to many questions but I am new to electronics.
Thanks guys.
Quote from: guruji on August 04, 2008, 02:24:14 PM
Today I included a neon to the circuit but when disconnecting the charging battery the neon did not light up why is this?
MAybe I did not put the right neon?or there is not much bemf to light up?
yes, it could be that the neon doesn't glow until a higher voltage - or that the peak Bemf voltage is not high enough to make the neon glow
as NerzhDishual said earlier, the neon is only there as a protection for the 2N3055 - in case the Bemf voltage ever gets too high (eg. possibly when battery disconnected, or if 1N4007 diode fails, etc)
it's like a seat-belt in a car/auto - you hope it won't be necessary - on any journey - but you always wear it just in case
have you tried replacing the charging battery with a capacitor yet? the voltage across the capacitor (without any resistor) will show you the peak voltage of your Bemf
try an electrolytic capacitor, say 200uF 40V or near, connected same polarity as the battery to be charged - you could probably leave a meter connected to the capacitor leads while you run the motor (use, say,100V range first and adust if necessary)
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site: http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
@Guruji
Nul-Point (Dr Ringwood) is far best that me in all these kind of electronics matters (and in Bass playing, BTW) . He his, probably, also the future author of one very book about Capacitors, Condos, Heroic Fantasy, 'OU' and Romanticism!
(Private Joke ;D ;D ;D)
With this small SSG Bedini 'motor' made from 16 (=8*2) very weak ferrite magnets, and a old computer (double) disk 'fed' with a 7.2 volts bat, I was (and still are, I hope) able to (quickly) charge up a 1000uf cap at about 50-60 volts. This is not claimed to be OU!
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FBedini%2FReplications%2FSSG3_Small.jpg&hash=d9801a5d8dfcee7e16ccd4135264416fa7a30f76)
May I suggest you to consult one of my previous posts about Bedini SSG tests:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4294.msg83376.html#msg83376 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4294.msg83376.html#msg83376)
Best
Hi Nerzhdishual that motor looks nice built and compact good good.
About the coil when they say bifilar does this mean that two coils rapped together on same core?
What nationality are you Sandy and Nerzhdishual?
Thanks guys for your help.
@Guruji,
Yes, on the same spool. You take 2 insulated copper wires
(for example 0.4 and 0.5 millimeter/diameter or even 2 * 0.5 millimeter/diam)
and wind them together. No need to be nice you can twist them if you want.
The core itself is made of welding rods.
This SSG (Simplified School Girl) Bedini 'Motor' is very well documented
and you can consult a lot a web sites that describe the building process.
Well, Sandy (Dr Ringwood) is from Great Britain.
I can't afford it, so I'm merely from Brittany (west part of France). ;D
Best
you see Andrew, what Monsieur Dishual is trying to avoid saying is that he lives in Bretagne....
and that i live in - Grande Bretagne! ;)
in which part of the world do you live?
Hi Sandy I live in the small island of Malta Europe.
Hope you heard of it :) cause it's very small.
OK then so you're both from UK no?;I was in UK last year went to Scotland too very nice.
hi Andrew
yes, i have heard of Malta... i was born there!! :)
my father was in the British Navy (in the early '50s) on an aircraft carrier stationed in Grand Harbour - my mother went to live in Malta for a year or so while my father was working there and i was born in a military hospital in Mtarfa
unfortunately we returned home to Scotland when i was only a few months old, and i didn't get to see my birthplace until a few years ago - i enjoyed seeing Grand Harbour and visiting the silent city of Mdina (is that spelt correctly?) and the fishing villages in the south near where my parents used to live (Marsascala)
i think i confused you with my mention of Grande Bretagne - NerzhDishual lives in the Bretagne region of France
as i'm sure he will tell you, Grande Bretagne (aka Great Britain) is actually a part of France (historically speaking) - the two are only separated by a rather wide river! ;)
good luck with your experiments - all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
That looks like a screenshot from a video on youTube. (search for 'understanding bedini') I used this schematic to build my first pulse motor about a week ago. I really need better equipment, I'm using toy magnets hot-glued to CD's and rechargable AA batteries as my charge and power sources. :P Only difference in my setup right now is an extra diode on the other side of the charging batteries just to play around, and a set of switches that allows me to quickly switch the power and charging batteries without actually having to physically change them.
I placed a 330v 120uf capacitor from an old camera in place of the charging batteries, but it only wants to hold a charge of around 1.6V. While the motor is spinning, it goes as high as 30V, but as soon as the motor is turned off, the cap drops in voltage back down to the 1.6V. I can discharge it and then charge it back up to 1.6V almost instantly, but it doesn't want to hold a charge any greater than that. What could be causing this effect?
Hi Sandy nice to hear that you were in Malta.Yes Mdina is spelled correctly.Did you visit prehistoric temples?
Ok ok about the neon bulbs how can one check if this is good?Are these bulbs 240v?
These days I am experimenting for car too to lower consumption.
Ok maybe one day we meet in Malta Sandy who knows. :)
Bye bye.
Hi Arkyan
Welcome to the 'OU' club!
IMHO, you camera's capacitor is dead!
If it does not hold his charge and quickly loose it when disconnected, It
behaves like a short circuited capacitor with a resistor.
Best
hmm, I was afraid of that. The poor Olympus camera has long been dead. I know the first time I dismantled it a couple years ago, the cap was alive and well because it gave me quite a shock even after being unused for a couple years even before that. :P I guess time finally wore down on it though. I've broken my magnet wheel....again....but this weekend I'll try to get some pictures up. I guess the pulse motor thread would be a better place for that sort of stuff though?
hi Andrew
checking an unknown neon could be a bit difficult without a variable high voltage source - and i'm cautious about advising anyone how to use the mains supply to achieve it
if you have several of the same type of neon you could solder say 4 of them in series & then all in series with say a 470K resistor, carefully insulate all bare connecting leads & then connect the two ends of the whole string to the Live & Neutral terminals of a 230V mains plug (ELCB if you have one, or lowest Amp fuse) - re-assemble the plug with its cover!
230V mains is approx 330V peak, so if the neons glow when the plug is connected to a mains socket then their working voltage is at least 80V approx (for 4 neons)
repeat with additional of the same neons in series & then repeat with fewer
if the string of neons still glow, their working voltage is at least 330/(number neons in series)
if the string of neons no longer glows, their working voltage is greater than 330/(number neons in series)
only try this if you feel completely confident about working with mains voltages and have some previous experience of wiring up mains-powered equipment - you do this at your own risk !
ideally, to give maximum protection to the 2N3055, the neon working voltage should be as close as possible to approx 3x the battery voltage (say 36V?) but i think you'll find that the neons will probably need at least 60V approx - and could just possibly be as much as two or three times that
hope this helps
hi Arkyan
sounds like NerzhDishual is right - for once! heheh :P - you might just check that you had the capacitor connected reverse to the supply rail - ie. with the same polarity as if it was the battery to be charged - if it had been the wrong polarity then that could well have fried it
another possibility - if it is indeed dead - is that your battery-switching arrangement could have momentarily applied a reverse voltage or short across the cap - if you tried switching when using the cap (depends on your actual switch configuration, of course)
it might be worth mentioning that 120uF is not a very high capacity - it wouldn't take much load to discharge it
have you tried charging it thro say a 470R resistor from a 9V battery for & then checking it with a reasonable quality DVM? for reference, i just checked a 100uF cap and it self-discharged (with just the DVM load) from 9.3V to 8V in around a minute (it would have continued to discharge below that of course if i'd left it connected)
all the best guys
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Hi Sandy I had done a capacitor but it's taking a bit long to be energized.I think I should do bigger magnets and increase coil cores around the rotor for better charging.I saw a guy on youtube leaving the motor off and just pushing the rotor;electricity was generated.
He did a sort of generator around the rotor.
Nerzdishual why you said to use welding rods for coil cores; are these better?and where I can buy those plastic rollers for winding the coil to them?.
Sorry to ask alot of questions but I am very keen to build an OU motor.
Thanks guys.
hi Andrew
what value capacitor did you try (in place of the battery to be charged?) ie. what uF and V values?
yes, it would be good to return again to Malta someday - i wasn't able to see the underground or large outdoor temples - just a small outdoor one
if i get an opportunity to return i'll certainly let you know!
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
HI Sandy the cap was 35v 200uf.I think the transistor is not closing up completely cause when I used to use a reed switch the caps of any size were being filled easily.
Ok thanks Sandy yes you're very welcome to Malta.
Bye bye.
@Guruji,
Why welding rods?
Because I was told so and because I'm always very obedient... ;D
No kidding and more seriously, please consult:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG)
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Materials#Magnet_Core_.28Welding_Rod.29 (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Materials#Magnet_Core_.28Welding_Rod.29)
I had removed the 'coat/cover/mantle' of each rod and roughly insulated each rod with glue.
Why had I removed the coat? Because the coat is very fragile/brittle, and I thought
it was more 'clean' and also because, after all, I'm not so obedient.) :))
Perhaps I should had not removed anything?. Anyway, you need a core.
I did not purchase any plastic roller. I built them with plywood, 'hole saws' and a
plastic tube of Aspirin or Vitamin C (or any else suitable medication... :)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FPic%2FHOLESAW.jpg&hash=5e0314bbfa397e5f3d8bd55fb4ad94b6e9493451)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FPic%2FTube_aspirine.jpg&hash=3432e67d15197bce414f2e646fc77bc3631edbc7)
Best