Hi,
I have searched thru websites to understand the overunity in terms of physical how feasible it's to achieve. Sorry if this was answered earlier. Question - What do you consider as overunity device?
1. Device that produce contineous energy for long duration of time than it consumes? OR
2. Device that produce greater amount of energy than it consumes but for shorter period?
3. A external supply of 48V - 10A to device that powers 1x100W bulb @110V contineously for morethan 24 hours? is it considered as overunity?
thx
Over-unity is a term that generally describes a device of some sort that purportedly generates energy from nothing, or creates more energy than is put into the system.
If my car was over-unity, then the tank would fill itself. Apply the metaphor to other concepts as you will :)
it is kind of tricky :) time of operation is not important in this concept.Where we spoke about the time we meant that device should run for some time to provide any usefull amount of work for demonstration purposes.
Overunity says that a device takes amount X of energy from known source to operate(can be 0 W) and outputs amount Y of known energy type. where output is higher than known input Y>X.In this meaning overunity is fully interchangeable with term COP>1. It is clear that device uses some energy Z form unknown sources and it adds up with known energy sources X to transform it into Y.
(In ur example 480 W of electrical power is used as input to the device.Device outputs 100W .it is underunity device no matter how long it will run.)
Overunity shows thus that there is energy transformed from other unknown energy type.If unknown type is identified and overunity is still observable ,it means that there are some more unknown energy types used by device.When all input energy types are defined,overunity is lost and becomes underunity.In that case we can still speak about free energy device,if identified energy type(s) is free of charge and wide available.
Overunity concept is thus:
1)directly independent of time( of device operation)
2)dependent on current knowledge status( of input energies types)
Overunity status is lost with time as we learn the device operation and understand its principles fully.After some time all energy inputs are identified.
Overunity is usefull term for research/inventing society.It allows us to speak about devices that shows abnormal features,not described yet by current knowledge of physics.It is stimulation to research for free( or cheap) energy type sources and invention of cheap devices able to transform new sources into everydays needs.
What we do here is thus inventing/identifying overunity devices (by building,designing,replicating..).Next to it we research its possible energy sources and a way they transform it (by creating new theories,extending existing ones...).All this effort to supply people with a free( or cheap) energy generated by our simple devices.
Thanks Creativity. My question was not clearly said.
If I have a starting input of 48v / 10A to the system for a brief period of time that powers 1x100w of bulb. After few seconds I would disconnect starting input and still the system works by itself and generates 1x100w of bulb for longer hours. Please let me know what is this concept termed as.
thx.
Quote from: mansoon on September 18, 2008, 09:28:35 PM
Thanks Creativity. My question was not clearly said.
If I have a starting input of 48v / 10A to the system for a brief period of time that powers 1x100w of bulb. After few seconds I would disconnect starting input and still the system works by itself and generates 1x100w of bulb for longer hours. Please let me know what is this concept termed as.
thx.
@mansoon
That depends on what's in the system. If there is no fuel or batteries then it would be considered overunity. But what we currently
consider overunity depends on the scientific definition of what is considered a fuel, chemical, mechanical, or electrical, nuclear
potential energy. If a scientist says there is no possibility of it being a fuel or energetic reaction then that is overunity energy, until
such time as the scientist figures out what is powering it...then it won't be anymore, see? On the other hand 3/4 HP horsepower
input for a certain time is sufficient to start an engine and its fuel that could be in the system. Generally what would happen is that
a certain fuel should be able to keep the light lit for a pretty definite amount of time in a isolated system. If the light stays on longer
than that it begins to become impossible for a particular fuel/engine or battery combination to support it. To prove it unambiguously
though one may need to consider a nuclear process that might be able to keep it "on" for a very long time...So then you have to start
getting into what is inside the box and how it operates.
We here at overunity.com are interested in those types of systems and many of us are willing to consider that those types of
systems can exist. This is really a requirement for the first steps towards of scientific understanding and acceptance, which is what,
whether people admit it or not, is a requirement towards the production of a product from which society benefits and inventor profits,
containing any new super-scientific ideas or concepts.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Related Question:
Assumusing that it does not use fuel or other external power after disconneting from battery, system outputs 100w power for long hours, however out of 100w output, 50w will be used to self-maintain system and remaining 50w made available for external use. Is this still covered under same OU concept or does it become free-energy. Few post stated that OU means output power should be morethan input or what system consumes.
I'm trying to clear-up my understanding of OU, accordingly we can place our system in respective category.
thx
it is ou.Half of input power is supplied in known energy form(the same as output type) and another 50W comes from undefined (yet) energy source. Now if it for example uses ambient heat then it is free energy device also. Howewer use of 50Hz radio waves emitted by power lines would not make it free energy device anymore.
thanks for the clarification. we are in the process of system measurements (i/o) under all conditions. but i know sure this is not ambient heat. shall post details later once we are completely ready.
ManSoon
Hi,
Here is the test data:
We wanted to test the system under different conditions like==
1. Connect battery to system and test system till battery dies (test1)
2. Connect battery to start the system and after brief period of time switch off battery and perform the same
test procedure (test2)
By doing so we will have some understanding on contineous battery connected power runtime (includes wattage) and
system itself how long it can work that exposes heat dissipation, noise helps us to measure when battery disconnected test
Test1
===========
In this test we do not have much expectation until something major output achieved.
Input: 48V, 40Ah Lead Acid Battery (connected till battery discharged full)
Observation: Minimum 50 times system has been switched on and off for short period of 5 to 10 mins which seem to
have taken much of battery current during start of the system as surge current. (all the time 300W bulbs were on)
Observed Output: AC 300W (bulbs) @ 220V for contineous 1 hour (total of 4 hour duration). After this voltage indicator
started dropping contineously and battery died.
We could not keep the system on for more than 1 hour as it was getting heated after 45min also. We know the reason
for the heat that's being produced by system which will be modified in our next system.
In this test, we have not put any meters to monitor input DC voltage/amp and output. But output we could notice by lighting 300W bulb and we have kept AC Voltage indicator on the output port which connected to bulbs. In this complete testing we never charged battery.
reason for us to put these results is to better understand measurement if we are doing right with your suggestions.
Test2
===========
to follow includes meter monitored.
Thx,,,
good that u started with testing.It is a systematic approach that u r willing to follow, as such u will have clear proofs to present and no speculation.Great!
Lead acid batteries are not well surviving full discharge :| The closer to discharge the more voltage drop also.It can make ur results inaccurate in longer runs,as battery life will be shorter and shorter every time(permanently lost capacity). Wouldn't it be better to use a wattage meter or voltage meter + amperage meter and a stopwatch to get more accurate results?U could get more repeatable results from each run of the test(battery will not suffer lost capacity).In ur set up it would mean to change test1 into a similar one,but to keep ur eye on the voltage and not let it to drop under let say 44V limit.
is battery voltage a real 48V or higher when fully charged?
Results are quite interesting.
let us calculate a bit:
1)battery if discharged continuously at 1/10th of the 40A will be capable of a work:
48V*40Ah=1,92 kWh (under best conditions for lead accid batteries)
2)50 times * 6 min = 5 hours of work done in first stage of test1
To power 300W for 5h it would drain 1,5kWh out of battery and other sources.
3)in the next step (without recharging of the battery if i understand well)
4h * 300W would drain additional 1,2kWh from battery and other sources
4)as a rough calculation result, ur device could use input of 1,92kWh to output around 2,7 kWh worth electric energy.Not bad at all :)
As u did no precise measurements,all calculations above are just a first approximation of what could be happening.We will wait for further results.
Is the output a standard AC?i ask because the multimeters are designed to measure a 50/60 Hz sinus wave and r behaving badly with other wave forms.For other than standard output only oscilloscope can tell the real voltage.
Next weak point in the chain is the bulb rating.It is an aproximation given by a manufacturer.Again appriopirate amperage metter...(testing of the bulbs resistance will not work fine,because it changes with the heat and so does the amperage).
Readings from the input side should be quite problemless if ur device takes a DC current.
PS:check what class of meters r u using.With this knowledge error range can be calculated on ur readings.
Creativity:
The numbers that I have mentioned is "conservative" on the lower side except Battery which is a real number. This is due to as you mentioned that mesuarements will not be correct without using measure devices so we go by conservative number till we insert measure devices at approriate places.
When we say conservative number means, in case of 300W bulbs, it actually higher than 300W bulbs most of the time. 50 times of switch on and off is actually much higher but for our calculations we wanted to use lower number. With this type of testing, their will not be any surprise if we get good results.
Yes. The battery was at 48V and output is standard AC.
Thanks for suggestion and shall take care for further testing.
Thx.
Just completed few modifications to the existing system that included switch, switching between battery and self-power. With this and related mechanics we have been able to disconnect battery from the system after brief period of start time and we could observe system self-running still providing 200W of power by which we could light-up 2 bulbs. This seems to be perpetual motion as we do not have any input from external nor fuel nor battery, but still able to sustain motion on it's own providing 200W of usable power.
I shall be making video of the system shortly but as black-box but all volt/amp meters connected to different elements of the system would be visible externally for our measurements.
mansoon
As a general rule LED bulbs would be preferable to incandescent light bulbs. I think the
first are more resistive; that is, wattage is proportional to input voltage. LED bulbs are highly
efficient and will broadcast their used energy away from the unit under test as light. Just
like a user trying to use power produced by the device, he will take it away from the device's
locale. Incandescent lights tend to be inefficient and have negative resistivity - that is why
they are used for inexpensive tests - incandescent lights tend to maintain constant
wattage independent of input voltage - the downside of it is that you don't know what
accurate wattage is that they are actually running, and they produce a lot of heat in the
unit under test's locale. As you know this heat may effect the device's operation positively
or negatively.
Also mansoon, If you could describe a brief overview of how your device functions without the
necessary construction details, I'm sure folks around here would be interested in hearing.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Waiting for the video.
Don't make us wait too long, please....
Quote from: mansoon on November 30, 2008, 12:19:35 PM
Just completed few modifications to the existing system that included switch, switching between battery and self-power.
Yep, a typical OU electromechanical (etc) setup.. As soon as the battery is involved, the chances for OU are.... Ah never mind..
Quote
With this and related mechanics we have been able to disconnect battery from the system after brief period of start time and we could observe system self-running still providing 200W of power by which we could light-up 2 bulbs.
Looking good, but for how long? And, the measurement procedures? Any additional data?
Quote
This seems to be perpetual motion as we do not have any input from external nor fuel nor battery, but still able to sustain motion on it's own providing 200W of usable power.
Are you sure???... Check out what "Perpetual motion" really means... First, "motion", and then "perpetual".
What you're saying is that you start it by battery, and then your device becomes a self-sustained, providing at least 200W of usefull power for days/months/years,...?
Quote
I shall be making video of the system shortly but as black-box but all volt/amp meters connected to different elements of the system would be visible externally for our measurements.
mansoon
Nice...A black box type of OU device.. ;D
And I do hope your measurement instruments are not just digital multimeters... :D
I am kind of sick of all the overunity results backed up solely on the readings made by such devices (usually combined with wrong measuring procedures, )...
Anyway, good luck!
Hope to hear some good news!
Yes. I shall try to get LED bulbs as suggested.
This new results what we have seen seems to be perpetual for us which is what is our assumption. Let you guys tell us if this is or not. I really did not check running it for few hours also as I was afraid of heat generated inside may corrupt machine. I definetely see heat inside the machine after 30min also. But our concept model which we started seems to be working. addressing heat issue is still requires some more work hopeful to complete shortly.
We will be using analog volt/amp meters but of quality I can't say much. Locally available only would be installed.
mansoon