Hi all:
Starting to see reference to this new type of battery but can find no real info on it.
I am converting an E-Bike and this extra punch would help out on distance. Thanks
thaelin
This is very interesting. I wonder what the chemistry is.
Some links promised to tell, but I didn't see any chemistry info.
This sodium aluminate should be easy to get from clay which is mostly just that sodium/aluminum/silicates.
Do you have the info to publish here to make this easy, Thaelin?
thank you,
jeanna
Sadly no I have nothing to go on at the moment. I did hear that an e-bike company
in germany ships it with this type of battery. All the battery companies here in the
US have no info on them or heard of them. :(
thaelin
Maybe Stephan has a lead???
OK I will study up a little to refresh.
I am pretty sure the lead acid battery has one kind of lead in a paste squished into a grid made of lead of another type and the sulphuric acid makes the reaction. I have never seen the explanation that "sticks".
This question gives me good reason to really look for it.
So, then for now conceptually at least, I suppose that with these 2 kinds of lead still in place, the Na/Al//Si in this alkaline environment will react with the lead and give it new life? maybe as some reports said, more peppy.
I'll have a look.
Maybe someone else can help?
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 17, 2008, 02:18:14 PM
OK I will study up a little to refresh.
I am pretty sure the lead acid battery has one kind of lead in a paste squished into a grid made of lead of another type and the sulphuric acid makes the reaction. I have never seen the explanation that "sticks".
Jeanna
A paste is not always used .
I remember around 15 or 20 years ago they switched the stuff they add to the plates . at the time thecalled batterys with the new chemistry "low maintanance "
Another variation is the optima battery . It has its plates in the form of a mats of lead threads .
the mats are sandwiched between layers of fiberglass ......the whole thing is rolled up into a cylinder . Because the plates are tightly rolled between layers of fiberglass the plates themselves need little or no mechanical strength so the chemistry can be optimised for electrical properties rather than a combination of electrical and mechanical properties .
Optima batterys cost around 3 times more than regular batterys but are said to last 4 times longer . Mine is 4 years old and seems to be as good as new .
gary
There is only one small vent on my optima and no place where water could be added .
Gary,
Is this a car battery you refer to as optima battery?
The idea to switch seems like one to pursue. but first, I want to address what is happening with the lead.
If this alkalinization of the acid battery produces better electricity and can be used after the acid battery has lost its usefulness, then this would double the life of one battery and one amount of lead etc.
However, one guy in his description was dumping the liquid out of his almost dead lead-acid battery in order to change its chemistry to alkaline with the addition of alum.
So, it may be a dreadful thing to do to your backyard (I won't even go on from there ;), ) and may not justify its use at all.
This is why I am asking for understanding of the chemistry.
Is there lead in the acid liquid of an almost used up lead acid battery?
I remember the liquid turns to water at some part of its cycle. Is it when it is flat?
I will be checking it out later. I just realized I did not make my question very clear.
Thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 17, 2008, 06:19:32 PM
Gary,
Is this a car battery you refer to as optima battery?
Yes the one I was talking about is in my car . . http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_products/
Quote
So, it may be a dreadful thing to do to your backyard (I won't even go on from there ;), ) and may not justify its use at all.
This is why I am asking for understanding of the chemistry.
Is there lead in the acid liquid of an almost used up lead acid battery?
I remember the liquid turns to water at some part of its cycle. Is it when it is flat?
I will be checking it out later. I just realized I did not make my question very clear.
good questions
I am not going to try changing the electrolyte in a battery .
I remember something about lead leaching into the soil from lead based paint . if livestock eat grass growing over a disposal site they can ingest dangerous amounts of lead .
I don't think it will be easy to get details on exact chemistry of lead acid batterys . The chemistry is what makes them better or worse than their competition .
gary
OK folks, this is it for me.
wiki says
Quote). In the discharged state both electrodes turn into lead(II) sulfate (PbSO4) and the electrolyte loses its dissolved sulphuric acid and becomes primarily water
In the next paragraph it says that the lead paste eventually drops into the liquid part of the battery and builds up a lead sludge from the bottom.
So, for me this is way too dirty a technology.
Yes, Gary lead causes nerve damage to all and brain damage to children whose brains are rapidly growing.
NO THANK YOU ON THIS ONE!
Jeanna
I though this was pretty interesting. Pretty dam expensive though. If you electrolyze water with a solar panel and create your own hydrogen, the energy would be dirt cheap. Not sure the about the lifetime of the pack though, or if you could even replenish the cell on your own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRysyghrKM&eurl=http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm
http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3123733
Another reference to the salt battery
"Their Magnetic Air Car uses a silicon salt battery having 30% more mass power than a lead acid storage battery, and it can completely charge in one hour. The battery is also environmentally friendly: it’s 95% recyclable, and it can be used in almost extreme conditions: from -40 to +50 degrees Celsius. I say almost, because the temperatures inside a car during summer exceed 50 degrees. "
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/09/30/magnetic-air-car/
Hi All,
There is more information at Sepp Hasslberger's site:
How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html (ftp://http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html)
cheers
ecc
That interesting Sepp Hasslberger link again on:
How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery.......
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html (http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html)
Hope it works this time.
ecc
Here are links to the Chinese manufacturer of the
"Silicone Power Battery" :
http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm (http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm)
and its western shop front:
http://www.greensaver.cn/en/news/index.aspx (http://www.greensaver.cn/en/news/index.aspx)
cheers
@ECC
Super! Many thanks to ya. Sad that our battery places refuse to carry these. I found
also a GreenSaver located in California as well. It is a sub of the china company. They
have the battery I need in stock now. ;D ;D ;D
thaelin
Some old electronic books have details on lead battery construction.Also the edison battery.triffid
I'm talking about books from the 1930's and 40's.Triffid
Hi,
Check this out.
Caterpillar reinvents the lead-acid battery
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Caterpillar+reinvents+the+lead-acid+battery-a0144875201 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Caterpillar+reinvents+the+lead-acid+battery-a0144875201)
I found one of my books with the lead battery and edison battery cut -away views.Its an electrical book,not electronics like I thought.It's;
"Fundamentals of Electricity" by Kennard C. Graham,E.E.
Fifth Edition cc1968
first edition was 1943.
A fact it mentions about the edision battery was that it could be frozen solid
and once thawed again it would be ok.Triffid
Go to your local library or go to the book section of your local thrift store to start your own home library.
I found a simple storage cell experiment in an old book.Auto lead battery.Apparatus:two lead plates,about 4 inches square;dilute sulfuric acid;insulated wire;battery jar.You should have enough info from this to go further if you want to.Always practice lab safety,wear safety glasses when working with acids.I have found no simple experiments for edison batteries.The electrodes are not so simple.The positive plate consists of nickel plated,perforated iron tubes filled with nickel flake and hydrated nickel oxide.The negative plate consists of nickel-plated,perforated iron cells or pockets filled with iron oxide.The electrolyte is potassium hydroxide.Some other facts about edision cells are they can be completely discharged and suffer no damage.They can also last 100 years so if you run across some anywhere.Buy them!Triffid
The edison battery is half the weight of the lead battery.And the maximum voltage of the edison cell is about 1.25 volts so it takes 5 edison cells in series to furnish the same volage as 3 lead cells in series.Triffid
hello,
sorry if i am post this in the wrong area but i thought since choride is a form of salt it may fit here
but when i was younger i made a big battery from cooking oil and pool chlorine in a pvc pipe but a warning in here also that it may built pressure if heat is a issue in your area above 70-80 degrees
i live in north carolina (good weather here) but this battery give very good result but not permament.. it was a 8-13 month battery at 8 vdc it was strong enough to power small dc motors, small light bulbs like flash light blubs i used small copper tubing for + and alum for - of course
it was a mountain dew can... sand the the inside cause its coated
but the oil seemed to keep the metal for decaying.. i could put more chlorine in the rig to charge it back up...
it still need more testing but i have strayed away ... to study the hendershot and sm tpu,,,
hope this helps if anyone interested
robbie