Dear Fellows:
This video was forwarded by a user in the Yahoo Free Energy group, but it comes from MIT. Is about a material that is called permanent magnet but can be reversed with a short pulse of current.
The video explanation is much more rich on details.
Could it be the answer to the long pursued OU pulse motor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGab9-zDUb8
Really interesting!
This looks more like a magnetic trick than the real deal. And there's plenty of them on YouTube.
There is just not enough information to make judegement.
A crappy video (not revealing anything of importance) usually tell us they're not being honest.
If it is true we still don't know the power consumption to flip polarity vs the work force from the device.
This Info is released...
but it say "nothing , that is to understand with the movie.
GP
A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on and off and can keep either state without external power.
The video begins with the magnet in "on" mode, that is, it is holding the bar on the bottom against gravity. Note that the power supply is off (as seen in the background).
A charge pulse is applied (by switching the DC power supply on then off quickly) which changes the magnet to "off". The bar on the bottom drops onto the table.
We hold the magnet near the bar and it is not attracted to the magnet. (This could have been done more dramatically in the video).
Next, the polarity of the DC signal is reversed (we reach behind and swap the banana connectors) and again a short DC pulse is applied. The magnet picks up the bar off the table.
Although we don't explicitly show it clearly in the video, the power supply is off with the exception of the short pulses that turn the magnet on or off. The rest of the time the magnet stays in whatever state it is in; that is why it is still called a "permanent magnet". This is also how this differs from a solenoid where the electrical input power must be provided any time the magnetic field is on.
Built by Ara Knaian, video by Amy Sun, both of the MIT Center for Bits and Atoms.
Quote from: Ergo on October 19, 2008, 10:48:43 AM
This looks more like a magnetic trick than the real deal. And there's plenty of them on YouTube.
There is just not enough information to make judegement.
A crappy video (not revealing anything of importance) usually tell us they're not being honest.
If it is true we still don't know the power consumption to flip polarity vs the work force from the device.
It looks like to me that it is simply a flux flipping device. The two magnets are mounted opposite polarity of each other between the two short bars that are bolted together. The bar with the coil is the 'bias' (designed like the gate of an SCR) that diverts the flux of the magnet closest to the coil to flow through the bar until interupted by a pulse of the coil. The other magnet seeks the closest path back to itself. The design follows that of an SCR or a logic circuit. (The magnetic state of the switch stays like a flip-flop. If any fairly strong magnetic source is present on the attraction bar, it might upset the delicate balance within the magnetic switch. It might work well for a memory circuit, but probably not for a motor, unless you use only an iron core for a rotor.
The device seems to be very similar to a Hildenbrand valve.
Ara Knaian appears to be a real person at MIT
Home Page
http://www.mit.edu/people/ara/
Thesis
http://www.mit.edu/people/ara/thesis08.pdf
Photos
http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/
Videos
http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/movies.html
There's an email address at the bottom of his home page if anyone wants to write him.
Hi, Chilean!
Good find, very interesting concept! One of a more promissing for all-permanent magnet motor builders...
Yes, if we could find a magnetic process/material,.. which would be able to change it's properties/polarisation with rather low energy input, the world would change instantly.... PM motors would become easy....
IMHO, I think it's a clever magneto-mechanical device, using a "flux-path balance" technique for apparently "very easy polarity switch".
I see Neo's and "I" pieces of EI transformer cores, with a switchable coil flux/path as a balance disturbance... There are similar concepts "in circulation", like "Flinn parallel magnetic path"....
(Or, check out the patents on "low energy magnetic switch concepts"... Steorn's patent is one of them...) ;)
Or, I'd go with this explanation:
Quote from: Liberty on October 19, 2008, 11:22:23 AM
It looks like to me that it is simply a flux flipping device. The two magnets are mounted opposite polarity of each other between the two short bars that are bolted together. The bar with the coil is the 'bias' (designed like the gate of an SCR) that diverts the flux of the magnet closest to the coil to flow through the bar until interupted by a pulse of the coil. The other magnet seeks the closest path back to itself. The design follows that of an SCR or a logic circuit. (The magnetic state of the switch stays like a flip-flop. If any fairly strong magnetic source is present on the attraction bar, it might upset the delicate balance within the magnetic switch. It might work well for a memory circuit, but probably not for a motor, unless you use only an iron core for a rotor.
Cheers!
Quote from: Liberty on October 19, 2008, 11:22:23 AM
It looks like to me that it is simply a flux flipping device. The two magnets are mounted opposite polarity of each other between the two short bars that are bolted together. The bar with the coil is the 'bias' (designed like the gate of an SCR) that diverts the flux of the magnet closest to the coil to flow through the bar until interupted by a pulse of the coil. The other magnet seeks the closest path back to itself. The design follows that of an SCR or a logic circuit. (The magnetic state of the switch stays like a flip-flop. If any fairly strong magnetic source is present on the attraction bar, it might upset the delicate balance within the magnetic switch. It might work well for a memory circuit, but probably not for a motor, unless you use only an iron core for a rotor.
Hi Liberty,
In this setup ( http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/DSCF6713.jpg ) and I assume you were talking about this setup, there is no need for two permanent magnets and in fact I believe the magnet-like metal on the left side (between the two bolts) is a soft iron core. So there is only one permanent magnet involved.
In this setup below there are two magnets indeed on the left but you can see the soft iron core piece on the magnets' right side too:
http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/DSCF6727.jpg
The operation you described is still valid: the magnet unlike poles once close through the soft iron piece (and stay there) and after the electromagnet is switched they close through the moving keeper (and stay there).
Thanks, Gyula
same concept?
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm
wings
Quote from: gyulasun on October 19, 2008, 02:40:45 PM
Hi Liberty,
In this setup ( http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/DSCF6713.jpg ) and I assume you were talking about this setup, there is no need for two permanent magnets and in fact I believe the magnet-like metal on the left side (between the two bolts) is a soft iron core. So there is only one permanent magnet involved.
In this setup below there are two magnets indeed on the left but you can see the soft iron core piece on the magnets' right side too:
http://img.cba.mit.edu/browse/080613_ara_reversible_permanent_magnet/DSCF6727.jpg
The operation you described is still valid: the magnet unlike poles once close through the soft iron piece (and stay there) and after the electromagnet is switched they close through the moving keeper (and stay there).
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Gyula,
Good to hear you out there. I didn't read anything about the device, just guessed at the operation. Just did a quick visual and threw out an opinion as usual... Interesting device and creative. Thanks for the description of operation. It's good to understand things and how they work. I always enjoy reading your posts.
Liberty
@Liberty,
Thanks for your kind words.
@Wings
Yes, I agree it is the same concept like the one shown in your link with the Radus boots.
Unfortunately, I have not seen a decent and correct measurement on such setups like these, probably the difficulty manifests in input pulse power measurements versus ,say, mechanical output power (or electric output power if the steered flux is used for induction).
rgds, Gyula
Is it big mystery you can drive or overdrive small permanent magnet with times bigger electromagnet? Look at these tini magnets and then huge amount of iron and coil teams up this magnetic circuit. When to try MEG with this then these small magnets will do nothing recognizable - "reverse" will take more energy than magnets are able to give back. This is inconsequent amount of energy you can get with so tiny magnets via induction. And PM motor? Oh dear! Why I need to add this monstrum to my nice, compact, powerful and near 95% efficient motor?
Thats because this (exact this) experiment does not impress me. I dont see any usage for this device.
This is not criticism!
Just my opinion,
Cheers,
khabe
Am I missing something? It looks like the typical electromagnet effect. Power on it attracts, power off it drops. I have seen much more interesting test with magnets like dropping a magnet down a copper tube and it takes a little time to go down.
Yes, you missed something (perhaps the text?): they only gave a pulse that switched the magnet on.
Eric
Quote from: eavogels on October 20, 2008, 02:49:12 AM
Yes, you missed something (perhaps the text?): they only gave a pulse that switched the magnet on.
Eric
@eavogels
Yes I saw the text, but the reason I said what I said is. I didn't see the repel after switching, only a cut off. A magnet attracts or repels when you turn them around, and I only saw in the demos a drop similar to an electromagnet effect.
I have been having trouble to reply to this thread.
I took a peek at the thesis of the person who created this video, and interestingly she (I assume is a she by the name) is researching "Programable materials" that answer to electromagnets by changing their properties. She created this programable magnet thinking on new materials for data storage, I think. She is a completely mainstream scientist, nothing to see with FE, I guess that she has not even thought of the possibility.
About this material that can be switched off and on, it clearly states that it only requires a pulse, not a sustained electricity, to "activate" or "deactivate" the permanent magnetism in the material.
Now the important question :
Does it take less energy to switch it, than what can be convertible into useful work, e.g by placing coils around it, while it is being switched ?
Quote from: Omega_0 on October 20, 2008, 10:20:21 AM
Now the important question :
Does it take less energy to switch it, than what can be convertible into useful work, e.g by placing coils around it, while it is being switched ?
That's the million dollar answer, and seems not easy to come by.