I designed this device on a circuit simulator a few days ago. I was keeping it secret for both personal reasons and not to give false hope. After a lot of thought I am certain it works. It leaves only for a successful bench test. This is the simplest OU machine without battery banks. It can be started by a 9v battery and once the initial startup it powers itself and the battery may be removed. The power does not come from the battery. It is only used for switching and potential. The power comes from back emf.
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The machine consists of 3 sections: The primary (9v to first relay, bridge and cap), the secondary (first cap, second relay,
second bridge, and second cap), and the recovery (second cap back to first relay).
Machine startup is as follows: With all switches off the 9v switch is turned on. The relays back emf is captured and rectified into the first cap. When it reaches about 200v the first DPST is turned on to dump some of the power into the secondary cap, then turned off to allow recharging to 200v (primary). This is repeated until the secondary is about 400v.
Once this occurs switch on the 2nd DPST THEN the 1st DPST THEN the 9v switch OFF. The order is important and it will not function otherwise. The circuits will not function otherwise. If successful the device will begin climbing exponentially.
10sec for 100v, then 5, 2.5, etc. Without a short between the 2 caps it will rise in voltage until it self destructs.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnightblade.haveyourplace.com%2Fstartup.png&hash=644d0e6afd1c431ad49865fd945c8fd46607884b)
To obtain useful work the resistors need to be lowered to 250 ohm with transformers in series. Both must be rectified seperatly into another cap in parallel with the load of your choice. Once balanced I have found the device to be self regulating to the load.
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At 15Watt inductive load the voltage hovers between 1500 and 1000 V on both caps. A larger load decreases the voltage scale only. The only problem is the need for high voltage capacitors and the noise the relays will produce. The materials are commonplace and inexpensive and a child can build this unit. The voltage spikes produced are also well understood.
(Practical Electronics for Inventors P.92)
"The coil of a relay acts as an inductor. Now, inductors do not like sudden changes
in current. If the flow of current through a coil is suddenly interrupted, say, a switch
is opened, the coil will respond by producing a sudden, very large voltage across its
leads, causing a large surge of current through it. Physically speaking, this phenom-enon
is a result of a collapsing magnetic field within the coil as the current is termi-nated
abruptly. [Mathematically, this can be understood by noticing how a large
change in current (dI/dt) affects the voltage across a coil (V =LdI/dt).] Surges in cur-rent
that result from inductive behavior can create menacing voltage spikes (as high
as 1000 V) that can have some nasty effects on neighboring devices within the circuit
(e.g., switches may get zapped, transistors may get zapped, individuals touching
switches may get zapped, etc.). Not only are these spike damaging to neighboring
devices, they are also damaging to the relay’s switch contacts (contacts will suffer a
“hard hit†from the flexible-metal conductive plate when a spike occurs in the coil).
The trick to getting rid of spikes is to use what are called transient suppressors."
This idea cannot wait any longer as the world continues to spiral into chaos. These need to be built on mass scale and
made public. Tesla tried to give us free power over 100 years ago and was supressed. The only way to prevent
supression is to give this device away. So I give you all the Ωmega Machine as my gift in honor of Tesla.
If this device works for you and you are feeling generous you can donate money to me through Stephen Hartman.
Protect your loved ones and spread peace and love to the world.
NightBlade
Is there any reason you haven't built this circuit yourself?
I have been away from home, I am broke, and I only have 1 relay.
Hi,
If you sum up all the losses in the diodes-arrays there is no way that your battery will last more than 5 min before it is exhausted. Not to speak of the relais. What current do you apply in your sim for each relais ?
All these simulations are worthless if you do not the basic realities of semiconductors and include these in your simulation.
A waste of time for sure.
Kator
Good enough for me ;D. I'm not an electronic guy but there are plenty here, so like you I'm going to wait very eagerly 8).
Quote from: Kator01 on October 19, 2008, 06:42:07 PM
If you sum up all the losses in the diodes-arrays there is no way that your battery will last more than 5 min before it is exhausted.
If you can read, he obviously said the battery or w/e power source is only needed at the starting phase. Ignorance is not always bliss.
If you look at the startup picture the 9v is only connected for 30 seconds. semiconductors will not work because there is no sparking or back emf surge. Back emf is 3x as powerful as the applied voltage:
|--| power on
+3 __
/ \
0v -------------
\__/
-3
|-------|power off
25% duty cycle: 0 to +3 =1x +3 to -3 = 2x -3 to 0 = 1x
1+1+2=4
try pulsing 2AA batteries through a transformer into a Full Wave Bridge Rectified capacitor, it will leave 12V.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, thus energy is free.
Quote from: NightBlade on October 19, 2008, 06:52:09 PM
Back emf is 3x as powerful as the applied voltage:
ok.
An applied voltage has no power, only the product of voltage and current.
This is power _NOT_ energy.
If you connect an inductor (coil) to a voltage source - you would measure
an almost linear ramped current of i = L*du/dt.
Depends on the resistive part of the coil - this might be mor exponential shaped.
Until you switch of the coil - the input energy is partly stored in the coil - or emitted
as heat because of the mutual resistance of the coil wire.
On turning off,. the stored energy is consumed by the resistive losses triggered
from the dielectric currents between the windings on Back EMF overshoot (nothing connected) -
If there is something connected - part of the Back EMF pulse energy is transfered to load.
_there is _NO_ magic with EMF_
If you perform simulations - I would suggest that you use more sophisticated models
for the relay coils containing C´s and R´s.
In a relay, part of the input energy is used in the switching process - the simulation
program doesn´t account for that.
What do you mean with:
Back emf is 3x as powerful as the applied voltage:
This is obviously wrong by quantity _AND_ quality.
PS.: Simulation programs can give you very crazy results if you
feed them with unreal data.
The sparking at the relay electrodes does the magic.
The first one who builds it and sends me a working prototype
will share 50/50 the OU Prize with user Nightblade.
So who is the first to prove him right ?
Electrical engineers agree, voltage stored in a capacitor is REAL power. You cannot charge a capacitor above the applied voltage. Using 2AA batteries, a 1:1 transformer and 4 diodes, pulsing the batteries will store 12v in the capacitor and no more. this follows the action reaction and 9v out of that 12v occurs when the batteries are disconnected thus requiring a 25% duty cycle with 3x gain.
P.S. My circuit simulator is calculating internal resistance of devices. Try what I say before you critisize. Just because you don't want it to work doesn't mean it doesn't.
Im using crocodile technologies circuit simulator btw.
Any takers?
nightblade.
could you draw pictures of what you are thinking, and post them here?
i have always understood pictures better than words.
because one simple picture, is worth 1,000 words.
nevermind.
my browser was malfunctioning.
i'll look at what you have.
i have a good idea of how overunity works. i just don't have frequency generators.
because the ones i saw were too expensive.
I have worked with this concept a bit already. His schematic is different than what I did. The problem I ran into was not having enough materials. I thought I did, and as it kept going I had to keep adding because I could not get it to continue without external help. Stefan is right. It is that sparking that should carry the free energy. I however, could not get it to work. I drifted to another concept. I found some interesting results just using one DPDT relay. I could not catch all the extra I knew was there. Heck, if you think it though, a relay is virtually a bedini circuit if you hook it through itself and use it's own poles to switch it's own power. All I did was find a very fast way to kill my battery, lol... But there was a very nice spark jumping.
Good luck guys.
If someone gets this working, how much life could you really expect to get out of the relays working that hard and fast all the time? Not a negative remark by any means, but is there something that can be done to prolong the lifespan? I'm thinking that even if the relays were rated at 1,000,000 cycles, wouldn't they wear out extremely fast being used in this manor?
Quote from: captainpecan on October 20, 2008, 03:16:08 AM
If someone gets this working, how much life could you really expect to get out of the relays working that hard and fast all the time? Not a negative remark by any means, but is there something that can be done to prolong the lifespan? I'm thinking that even if the relays were rated at 1,000,000 cycles, wouldn't they wear out extremely fast being used in this manor?
My 24V coil relay when configured to self oscillate goes at about 500Hz. So 1 megacycle will take 2000 seconds or just over half an hour! It will probably give more than 1 megacycle though as it´s only switching enough current for it´s own 24V coil and it´s contacts are rated at 125V10A. But still as you say it wouldn´t last long.
Maybe if the units can be built with COP>1 then special relays could be made with cheap contact refill packs or could use replaceable carbon contact brushes?
Yucca.
Hi Nightblade,
Do you think it would work also if the DPST switches were replaced with N-channel and P-channel FET pairs? This would make automatic sequencing of the switching easier to implement.
Could you possibly add them to your sim and see if it still rises.
Yucca.
The relays could possibly be replaced with coils and FETs. As long as its self switching the back emf spikes can be collected. Im not really concerned about the DPST switches as they are closed for all but the inital startup. I doubt a knife switch would wear out even under very high voltage use. I will attempt to replace the relays with half a transformer and a FET and see what happens.
OK, I didn't realise that the DPST switches were only manipulated at startup, I should've read more slowly.
I have done some initial testing with a relay (SPDT 24V coil 125V10A contacts) and two caps (470uF 200V) I used a bridge to catch the BEMF in the second cap as the relay oscillates off the first. I was suprised to be able to do quite a few swaps of the caps and keep ~80% of the energy each swap even though I was repeating the sequence loosely by hand.
I think I will have a go at making your circuit, I have lower voltage caps and higher voltage coils but it'll at least buzz for a bit if nothing else.
Yucca.
Quote from: NightBlade on October 20, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
The relays could possibly be replaced with coils and FETs. As long as its self switching the back emf spikes can be collected. Im not really concerned about the DPST switches as they are closed for all but the inital startup. I doubt a knife switch would wear out even under very high voltage use. I will attempt to replace the relays with half a transformer and a FET and see what happens.
Would probably not work,
as you need the sparking to get additional energy into the circuit so to have a selfrunner.
The same applies to the Newman motors.
With just electronic transistor or MOSFET commutation you will not get the recharge effect of the batteries.
Regards, Stefan.
This is my initial protoboard attempt at the circuit:
caps:
200V 470uF
diodes:
1n4007
resistors:
940 ohm
each one made from 2 x 470 ohm
relays:
24V coil 1.5 kohm DC res
125V 10A contact rating
I built the two oscillator stages side by side. I didn't use the 9V battery method to precharge the caps to 200V. Instead I precharged them both to 80V with external supply and set the machine going. When running it decays to no oscillation in ~6.5 seconds.
One oscillator stage on its own with the feedback disconnected decays in ~8 seconds?
I may try precharging my caps up to 200V using a rectified variac but I will have to increase the coil feed resistance, my relays already sounded like they were about to expire at 80V.
Note:
Whilst running it sounds like the gates of hell are slowly creaking open!
Yucca.
Many thanks Yucca for these first tests.
Do you also have faster diodes like 1N5408 or BYT types diodes ?
The 1N4007
are too slow to catch all the high frequency spark pulses..
So better use only very fast diodes for these types of pulse circuits.
Also it could be very helpful to modify the relays and have copper
on graphite contact points.
Just try to rip the graphite out of a pencil and modify the relays with it,
so the spark is burning between the copper contacts and the pencil graphite
contacts.
Many thanks.
Since Stephans last post ,something I have been thinking of for a while. I made a gold [and other metals] brushplating machine. Do you think gold plating would increase the life of these relays?
PS Would be very cheap to do
Chet
@Yucca
Based on my simulations you need a starting voltage of about 200{primary} and 200-400{secondary} to get over the resistance needed to prevent immediate discharge of the caps. I'm worried your caps would explode if it caught. You can make some HV caps from glass jars lined with tinfoil. Should work for most loads. You should have a selfdischarge switch incase the voltage goes too high. Good luck.
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reposting circuits
Quote from: ramset on October 21, 2008, 09:06:55 AM
Since Stephans last post ,something I have been thinking of for a while. I made a gold [and other metals] brushplating machine. Do you think gold plating would increase the life of these relays?
PS Would be very cheap to do
Chet
ramset
what other metals can you do?
layers of the right metals might make a proof of concept electrinium battery possible.
gary
I don´t want to abuse my relays any more than I have because I have plans for them in future projects. I will set about making some relays out of solenoid coils and thin steel with copper and carbon contacts, that way I can thrash them and then retune and recontact etc.
I know Leyden jars have impressive voltage ratings but a typical Leyden jar only has a capacitance between 50 pf and 1 nF, doubtful it would manage to fire the relay once. I´ll try and get hold of some decent caps, It´s not the first time I´ve found myself wanting them.
Yucca.
Many thanks for the support. I will set about making one myself soon.
Quote from: hartiberlin on October 21, 2008, 08:44:59 AM
Many thanks Yucca for these first tests.
Do you also have faster diodes like 1N5408 or BYT types diodes ?
The 1N4007
are too slow to catch all the high frequency spark pulses..
So better use only very fast diodes for these types of pulse circuits.
Also it could be very helpful to modify the relays and have copper
on graphite contact points.
Just try to rip the graphite out of a pencil and modify the relays with it,
so the spark is burning between the copper contacts and the pencil graphite
contacts.
Many thanks.
Stefan,
I only have 1n5819 (max rev V only 40V) and 1n4148 as alternatives. Do you think if I put a sperate 1n4148 bridge in parallel to the 1n4007 bridge it would help harvest the higher frequencies?
Yucca.
RES I don't think there is a limit to what metals can be plated to each other, only where to get the different metals in solution
Chet
Quote from: ramset on October 21, 2008, 05:14:08 PM
RES I don't think there is a limit to what metals can be plated to each other, only where to get the different metals in solution
Chet
Ramset
do you have the formula for the different metals ?
Or a link?
If you know the process and the formula usually something can be found online .
gary
RES google brushplating
Chet
@Yucca
You can increase the voltage max of diodes by placing them in series. The only drawback is a voltage drop across each. Don't think this is practical for a 40V diode though...
This is a very interesting device but in my opinion it has some drawbacks...Or at least there a few things that I can't understand at the moment.
a) How could somebody stop this machine from going up to uncontrolled amounts of power and destroy itself?
b) From my little experience on electronics, when relays are used, the machine's life is decreased due to moving parts inside the relay. On this specific occasion, where sparks coexist with relays, I don't think the last ones will stand enough...
c) I think I will start replicating it but because I can't understand the diagram completely, could somebody please give a detailed description of the parts needed for a complete first stage and the extra parts needed for stage 2,3 etc.? I don't see any values on the relays (type etc.), caps (electrolytic or ceramic, values) and on diodes :(
Thank you in advance for the effort!
I disagree with Stefan.. I believe the sparks in the relays is where you waste energy.. I believe FETs would be better.
Jason
If the energy was indeed coming from the spark the simulation wouldn't show it as it doesn't simulate a spark and the zero point energy or w/e that's being tapped from it. I believe this does not need a spark an technically can be done with solid state components.
Quote from: broli on October 23, 2008, 06:08:19 AM
If the energy was indeed coming from the spark the simulation wouldn't show it as it doesn't simulate a spark and the zero point energy or w/e that's being tapped from it. I believe this does not need a spark an technically can be done with solid state components.
You are right, the sparking is not included in the simulation.
So I wonder why at all the simulation is saying that it is overunity.
Normally only the spark effects like electron clustering and oxidation of the
the point contact materials give off free electrons, which come additionally
into the circuit and do the additional energy effects.
Regards, Stefan.
I believe if FETs are used you would need to add toroids because there would no longer be coils from the relays. You need EMF.. correct?
@AlgoryThm
The self discharge pot wastes energy by connecting the 2 caps from opposite poles, thus neutralizing some power. At the resistance shown in my pictures I've found it will self regulate to the power requirements of the load.
You're right about relays having a limited lifespan but I am currently designing a solid state version.
As FET's go I do believe it will work with a torroid or transformer coil instead of the relay because according to Practical Electronics for inventors, its not the sparking, but the sudden cutoff in current flow that causes these massive voltage spikes.
@Stephan and 4Tesla
You are right, the simulator does not factor spark energy in. And it is the EMF or BEMF that is supplying the power.
I think a FET design using depletion MOSFETS would work to let power through the coil and then shut itself off. Similar to Roger Andrews self switching desktop novelties with a split winding.
Unfortunatly my circuit simulator doesn't have depletion mosfets so I will have to continue experimenting,
Nightblade thanks for the explanation! I think I got it...I'll see what I can do with my simulator (Electronics Workbench) and if I can make a virtual replication first. And if this works, I'll then go with a real version. We're waiting for the new design with the MOSFETS man! Upload it here when u have it ready! :)
Quote from: NightBlade on October 19, 2008, 09:18:15 PM
Electrical engineers agree, voltage stored in a capacitor is REAL power. You cannot charge a capacitor above the applied voltage. Using 2AA batteries, a 1:1 transformer and 4 diodes, pulsing the batteries will store 12v in the capacitor and no more. this follows the action reaction and 9v out of that 12v occurs when the batteries are disconnected thus requiring a 25% duty cycle with 3x gain.
P.S. My circuit simulator is calculating internal resistance of devices. Try what I say before you critisize. Just because you don't want it to work doesn't mean it doesn't.
If you have the charge of 1C in a 100000uF cap - the voltage would be 10V.
If you pump this charge into a 1pf cap (without losses) - there would be 1TV (1 terravolt).
A voltage or an amperage has no energy or power by itself - the power is u*i and
the energy is u*i*t; q=c*u=i*t; c*u2=u*i*t
if u*i*t (out) is more than u*i*t (in) - you have ou